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FringeNC
12-30-2005, 12:43 AM
Looong article in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/25/AR2005122500635.html

Supposedly, he could have his pick of any of the openings, but would only consider the above 3 teams.

Tribal Warfare
12-30-2005, 01:14 AM
The proposition of going home -- or close to it -- is not lost on Williams, and when asked if particular jobs would "tug at his heartstrings," he nodded and said: "Sure, that's true. There are definitely certain things that would be intriguing, but it's got to be the right situation."

Interesting, Is MOHillbilly misinformed? :shrug: :hmmm:

greg63
12-30-2005, 01:19 AM
Reading long articles gives me a headache.

Halfcan
12-30-2005, 01:21 AM
Williams is a good coach, I would be happy with that.

Halfcan
12-30-2005, 01:22 AM
Reading long articles gives me a headache.

That was long-come to think of it, I am getting a headache now.

Cochise
12-30-2005, 01:23 AM
this is like an election, where you feel compelled to support the "not Herm" candidate...

phxchief
12-30-2005, 07:19 AM
St. Louis, Houston, or KC? Hmm -- tough choice.

RedDread
12-30-2005, 07:29 AM
this is like an election, where you feel compelled to support the "not Herm" candidate...

Also an excellent idea when shopping for affections.

NTTAWWT

Kclee
12-30-2005, 07:34 AM
Interesting, Is MOHillbilly misinformed? :shrug: :hmmm:


It's a combover.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 07:52 AM
Interesting, Is MOHillbilly misinformed? :shrug: :hmmm:

Sounds to me like Hillbilly is right on the money.

Coming to KC would "pull at his heart strings" but it would have to be the "right situation".

Sounds like a heart vs. head thing going on.

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 08:01 AM
check your pms.

Hoover
12-30-2005, 08:51 AM
"Like the Rams, the Chiefs have a talented offense but need defensive help, and both organizations have been playoff regulars"

Umm when?

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 09:28 AM
read the last half of the paragraph on the first article-

I hope Gregg lights this guys ****ing ass up for bringing in his family..

mother****er!

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 09:49 AM
read the last half of the paragraph on the first article-

I hope Gregg lights this guys ****ing ass up for bringing in his family..

mother****er!

There was nothing bad said about his family, simply that he has a daughter and a son who plays college football. What in the heck is wrong with that?

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 09:56 AM
There was nothing bad said about his family, simply that he has a daughter and a son who plays college football. What in the heck is wrong with that?


The fact that he even brings them up is whats wrong w/ that.

jspchief
12-30-2005, 10:08 AM
If I were a coach, KC would be my last choice of those three.

A team with the average age of 28 and 18 players over 30? It's a disaster in the making.

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 10:10 AM
If I were a coach, KC would be my last choice of those three.

A team with the average age of 28 and 18 players over 30? It's a disaster in the making.


thats my personal opinion aswell.

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 10:12 AM
If I were a coach, KC would be my last choice of those three.

A team with the average age of 28 and 18 players over 30? It's a disaster in the making.

I think the Chiefs are in far better shape than we were in 2001, when we were in dead money cap hell.

jspchief
12-30-2005, 10:19 AM
I think the Chiefs are in far better shape than we were in 2001, when we were in dead money cap hell.In some ways, yes. But at least a coach had that excuse for his first few years.

Now a coach has to come in and hope to win with expensive aging vets from someone else's team, for fans that think they are on the cusp of success. If that doesn't work in the first year or two, he has to start cutting fan favorites and entering a rebuild mode.

Basically, he has to get it done right away, and he doesn't even have the luxury of doing it his way. Otherwise, he goes through the failings of an over the hill team, followed by the failings of a rebuilding team. It's a recipe for four straight years of not meeting fans expectations. Not a job I would want if I had just worked my way back into mention as a head coach after a failed first run.

cdcox
12-30-2005, 10:37 AM
In some ways, yes. But at least a coach had that excuse for his first few years.

Now a coach has to come in and hope to win with expensive aging vets from someone else's team, for fans that think they are on the cusp of success. If that doesn't work in the first year or two, he has to start cutting fan favorites and entering a rebuild mode.

Basically, he has to get it done right away, and he doesn't even have the luxury of doing it his way. Otherwise, he goes through the failings of an over the hill team, followed by the failings of a rebuilding team. It's a recipe for four straight years of not meeting fans expectations. Not a job I would want if I had just worked my way back into mention as a head coach after a failed first run.

Exactly. If the new coach doesn't win it all in the first two years, you might as well fire him then and let someone else have a shot at rebuilding with a clean slate.

Or, you could just say you are going to start rebuilding now, making personnel decisions and installing O and D to win in 3 years.

jspchief
12-30-2005, 10:43 AM
Exactly. If the new coach doesn't win it all in the first two years, you might as well fire him then and let someone else have a shot at rebuilding with a clean slate.

Or, you could just say you are going to start rebuilding now, making personnel decisions and installing O and D to win in 3 years.It couldn't be worse timing to need a new coach.

1. We have a team that has enough gas left in the tank that it's hard to justify junking, but a few retirements could drastically change that.

2. The pool for prospective head coaches is horrible this year.

It almost makes me wish Vermeil would hang on for one more year. And I hate Vermeil.

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 11:36 AM
In some ways, yes. But at least a coach had that excuse for his first few years.

Now a coach has to come in and hope to win with expensive aging vets from someone else's team, for fans that think they are on the cusp of success. If that doesn't work in the first year or two, he has to start cutting fan favorites and entering a rebuild mode.

Basically, he has to get it done right away, and he doesn't even have the luxury of doing it his way. Otherwise, he goes through the failings of an over the hill team, followed by the failings of a rebuilding team. It's a recipe for four straight years of not meeting fans expectations. Not a job I would want if I had just worked my way back into mention as a head coach after a failed first run.

In today's NFL, because of free agency and the salary cap, teams have to constantly reload to stay competitive. In the old days, you drafted a bunch of young players and you had the rights to those players forever. It doesn't work that way anymore. Virtually all teams have big decisions to make every year.

Mr. Laz
12-30-2005, 11:38 AM
Reading long articles gives me a headache.

http://www.kidsreads.com/art/covers/039480001X.jpg

Rausch
12-30-2005, 11:41 AM
In today's NFL, because of free agency and the salary cap, teams have to constantly reload to stay competitive. In the old days, you drafted a bunch of young players and you had the rights to those players forever. It doesn't work that way anymore. Virtually all teams have big decisions to make every year.

Exactly.

Winning teams like the Donks, Steelers, Pats, and even Panthers or Bucs have found a way to win with new talent.

If you can't it's due to Coaching and management, not the state of the NFL.

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 12:12 PM
Exactly.

Winning teams like the Donks, Steelers, Pats, and even Panthers or Bucs have found a way to win with new talent.

If you can't it's due to Coaching and management, not the state of the NFL.


Yep. Bill Walsh (I think it was him) said it best when he said today's NFL is a coach's league. What he meant by that is success in the NFL today is determined not by players, but by coaches. Salary cap considerations, free agency, and the reverse order draft pretty much mean all teams are going to have similar talent.

The only time teams face meltdowns is when they have tons of dead cap money, which I don't think we will have.

Belichick would take any team in the NFL (except the 49ers) to the playoffs...if not this year, then next for sure. You just don't rebuild in this league, you reload. It's not like MLB.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:04 PM
Exactly.

Winning teams like the Donks, Steelers, Pats, and even Panthers or Bucs have found a way to win with new talent.

If you can't it's due to Coaching and management, not the state of the NFL.

The Steelers have had two 6-10 seasons under Cowher. The last one landed them Ben Roethlisberger.

The Donks built their base around Elway. They haven't won a playoff game since.

The Panthers went 1-15 and landed Julius Peppers. After that they went 7-9, 11-5, 7-9, and are now 10-5.

This league is cyclical. The BEST teams have high draft picks on their roster.

We have ONE - Ryan Sims.

I absolutely agree we have a problem with coaching and management. But the problem is that they think going 9-7 year after year is a GOOD thing.

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 01:07 PM
The Steelers have had two 6-10 seasons under Cowher. The last one landed them Ben Roethlisberger.

The Donks built their base around Elway. They haven't won a playoff game since.

The Panthers went 1-15 and landed Julius Peppers. After that they went 7-9, 11-5, 7-9, and are now 10-5.

This league is cyclical. The BEST teams have high draft picks on their roster.

We have ONE - Ryan Sims.

I absolutely agree we have a problem with coaching and management. But the problem is that they think going 9-7 year after year is a GOOD thing.

Two separate 6-10 seasons is hardly rebuilding. Decent teams with a hard schedule and bad breaks can finish 6-10.

Ralphy Boy
12-30-2005, 01:22 PM
If I'm Williams, I'm taking the Houston job over us, or St Louis. Carr isn't a bad QB, he just has a horrible line. They've got a lot of good young talent and they will have a very high draft pick (1 or 2). They could draft Leinert or Bush and either one would make Carr or Dominick Davis better in that both Leinert & Bush are upgrades over Carr & Davis.

I just don't see St Louis going after him, maybe because their ties to Saunders.

Us, I can't see Carl hiring a defensive minded head coach, who will most likely not want Gun as his DC. Maybe if Jeff Fisher and Williams are still on good terms, he can put in a good word for Gun, but they never worked together in Tennessee. I'd hope he and Gun can have a heart to heart wherein Gun will tell him that just about all of the defensive assistants need to get canned.

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 01:27 PM
If I'm Williams, I'm taking the Houston job over us, or St Louis. Carr isn't a bad QB, he just has a horrible line. They've got a lot of good young talent and they will have a very high draft pick (1 or 2). They could draft Leinert or Bush and either one would make Carr or Dominick Davis better in that both Leinert & Bush are upgrades over Carr & Davis.

I just don't see St Louis going after him, maybe because their ties to Saunders.

Us, I can't see Carl hiring a defensive minded head coach, who will most likely not want Gun as his DC. Maybe if Jeff Fisher and Williams are still on good terms, he can put in a good word for Gun, but they never worked together in Tennessee. I'd hope he and Gun can have a heart to heart wherein Gun will tell him that just about all of the defensive assistants need to get canned.


IF williams comes in noway he keeps gun for anything other than a position coach.
JMO

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:35 PM
Two separate 6-10 seasons is hardly rebuilding. Decent teams with a hard schedule and bad breaks can finish 6-10.

6-10 equals top 10 draft pick.

Show me a championship team in the last 10 years that has as few as we have.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:37 PM
I thought about this right after I posted my first response.

I agree that in this day and age, a team reloads rather than rebuilds.

It's HOW they reload that's important.

The great teams in today's NFL have "reloaded" with a core of high draft picks. They use FA to fill in the cracks.

We've built our core from free agents with no high draft picks. We're built the OPPOSITE from the way the good teams are built.

tk13
12-30-2005, 01:40 PM
6-10 equals top 10 draft pick.

Show me a championship team in the last 10 years that has as few as we have.
Roethlisberger was drafted outside the top 10, as was Polamalu. You can find talent outside the top 10 picks of the first round. Heck, us and the Chargers both drafted LB's that'll be stars this last draft.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:42 PM
Roethlisberger was drafted outside the top 10, as was Polamalu. You can find talent outside the top 10 picks of the first round. Heck, us and the Chargers both drafted LB's that'll be stars this last draft.

True. Maybe I should have extended to top 15.

My point is, there isn't a single contender over the last few years that was built the way we are. That being said, we did have a 7-9 season, allowing us to get DJ. That helps.

Der Flöprer
12-30-2005, 01:45 PM
I hope Vermiel sticks around for 1 FINAL year. It would probably help us keep Roaf, and this team was on the verge this year. Yes they are getting older, however you can't deny that this team was less than 10 points away from being 12-3 right now instead of 9-6. Philly, Dallas, Buffalo. That's the difference between us talking about Playoff matchups, and who Williams will be coaching next year. I haven't given up on this squad. Give us 1 year without suspensions, and hopefully injuries and let's see what happens.

MOhillbilly
12-30-2005, 01:47 PM
True. Maybe I should have extended to top 15.

My point is, there isn't a single contender over the last few years that was built the way we are. That being said, we did have a 7-9 season, allowing us to get DJ. That helps.


your getting to things ive been thinking about for sometime.
Look at the teams of the 90s coming off the terrible late 80s campaighns -it allowed KC to get some bona-fide studs in Smith & Thomas two guys that played VERY well together.

id rather have a coach come in to be sacraficed in acouple 3-13 type seasons,just to get some top talent and build around LJ and DJ and make a real run in 3 years.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:53 PM
I hope Vermiel sticks around for 1 FINAL year. It would probably help us keep Roaf, and this team was on the verge this year. Yes they are getting older, however you can't deny that this team was less than 10 points away from being 12-3 right now instead of 9-6. Philly, Dallas, Buffalo. That's the difference between us talking about Playoff matchups, and who Williams will be coaching next year. I haven't given up on this squad. Give us 1 year without suspensions, and hopefully injuries and let's see what happens.

8-8. That's what happens.

tk13
12-30-2005, 01:53 PM
True. Maybe I should have extended to top 15.

My point is, there isn't a single contender over the last few years that was built the way we are. That being said, we did have a 7-9 season, allowing us to get DJ. That helps.
I don't disagree with that. That's what I was saying a couple years ago when we "stood pat". I wasn't sure whether our draft picks would succeed, but Carl was trying to do it like successful teams do it. And he even said after the year that he would've liked to have given some of these guys one more year to develop... and it did work that way for guys like Mitchell and Sims.

I've said it before but for DV and Al to at least build a top offense like they have without many high draft picks and having to be cheap in FA due to dead money when they got here was pretty darn impressive in today's NFL.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 01:55 PM
I don't disagree with that. That's what I was saying a couple years ago when we "stood pat". I wasn't sure whether our draft picks would succeed, but Carl was trying to do it like successful teams do it. And he even said after the year that he would've liked to have given some of these guys one more year to develop... and it did work that way for guys like Mitchell and Sims.

I've said it before but for DV and Al to at least build a top offense like they have without many high draft picks and having to be cheap in FA due to dead money when they got here was pretty darn impressive in today's NFL.

It's not just impressive. It's unprecedented IMO. Probably THE reason Al should be a candidate for HC.

Hoover
12-30-2005, 01:55 PM
I hope Vermiel sticks around for 1 FINAL year. It would probably help us keep Roaf, and this team was on the verge this year. Yes they are getting older, however you can't deny that this team was less than 10 points away from being 12-3 right now instead of 9-6. Philly, Dallas, Buffalo. That's the difference between us talking about Playoff matchups, and who Williams will be coaching next year. I haven't given up on this squad. Give us 1 year without suspensions, and hopefully injuries and let's see what happens.
DV needs to come out, and say I'm not done, I'm not walking away from this team, 2006 will be my final year because I believe we have what it takes to win a Super Bowl. If he does come back he needs to put the preasure on CP to get him some FAs on Defense, and some cheap vets for depth.

htismaqe
12-30-2005, 02:03 PM
DV needs to come out, and say I'm not done, I'm not walking away from this team, 2006 will be my final year because I believe we have what it takes to win a Super Bowl. If he does come back he needs to put the preasure on CP to get him some FAs on Defense, and some cheap vets for depth.

We added FAs on defense LAST YEAR. We added one of the top 5 CB's in the game, 2 former DRoY, and a safety that had more takeaways over 5 years than anyone in the league.

It still didn't work.

5 years. 2 coordinators with diametrically opposed schemes. Millions of dollars on high-profile free agents. Nothing has changed.

DV needs to come out, say he hasn't accomplished his goal, and retire.

FringeNC
12-30-2005, 02:09 PM
I've said it before but for DV and Al to at least build a top offense like they have without many high draft picks and having to be cheap in FA due to dead money when they got here was pretty darn impressive in today's NFL.

Good coaches develop the talent they have. We built much our offense from the scrap heap. Williams did the same thing with DC's defense. That's what good coaches do. Look at Shanahan's offense. Where are the stars?

That's why I am really scared about DV leaving. He and Saunders built this offense, and I don't think Carl had much input.

I want Williams or Saunders as our next coach. One side of the ball will be taken care of, regardless. Williams might be better because once a thing is built, it carries on for awhile..a la the 49ers offense after all the good coordinators left. We just have to get a stud D coach, whether Williams as HC or a good DC for Saunders.

tk13
12-30-2005, 02:14 PM
DV needs to come out, and say I'm not done, I'm not walking away from this team, 2006 will be my final year because I believe we have what it takes to win a Super Bowl. If he does come back he needs to put the preasure on CP to get him some FAs on Defense, and some cheap vets for depth.
That won't work. In 2004 he kept saying in press conferences to ask the front office, they tell me "we're cashed out". Then after the season complained and said we have to get the coaches better players to coach. I think after 2003 Carl just kinda took over and did his thing DV be damned. Grant Wistrom actually promised DV that offseason that he wouldn't sign with anyone until he came and visited KC... but we didn't get the first visit with him, and Seattle knew DV wanted him and threw a bunch of money at him and we lost him.

milkman
12-30-2005, 07:34 PM
It couldn't be worse timing to need a new coach.

1. We have a team that has enough gas left in the tank that it's hard to justify junking, but a few retirements could drastically change that.

2. The pool for prospective head coaches is horrible this year.

It almost makes me wish Vermeil would hang on for one more year. And I hate Vermeil.

I don't want Dick back under any circumstances.

But this post, and your previous one can be used as a compelling argument for promoting.

You would get the nearly the same continuity that having Dick come back would provide, while at the same time providing a different dynamic on the sidelines.

But I also think that Williams might have the same kind of effect on the team, while getting more from the defense.

It really is something of a connundrum.

jspchief
12-30-2005, 10:02 PM
I don't want Dick back under any circumstances.

But this post, and your previous one can be used as a compelling argument for promoting.

You would get the nearly the same continuity that having Dick come back would provide, while at the same time providing a different dynamic on the sidelines.

But I also think that Williams might have the same kind of effect on the team, while getting more from the defense.

It really is something of a connundrum.I can definately think of ways to justify keeping Vermeil or promoting Saunders, regardless of how much I don't want it to happen.

The biggest thing to me is the utter lack of quality candidates. There's just no one out there that excites me. If we could get Saunders for only a two year contract, I would take it. But he wouldn't do that, and my biggest fear is what he woulddo with this team when the retirement floodgate opens.

I have a feeling the next coach is going to be a disaster, whether he's a good coach or not. I guess the silver lining is that it will bring about some of those high draft picks that htismaqe and I think can be a springboard for building a quality team.

milkman
12-30-2005, 10:08 PM
I can definately think of ways to justify keeping Vermeil or promoting Saunders, regardless of how much I don't want it to happen.

The biggest thing to me is the utter lack of quality candidates. There's just no one out there that excites me. If we could get Saunders for only a two year contract, I would take it. But he wouldn't do that, and my biggest fear is what he woulddo with this team when the retirement floodgate opens.

I have a feeling the next coach is going to be a disaster, whether he's a good coach or not. I guess the silver lining is that it will bring about some of those high draft picks that htismaqe and I think can be a springboard for building a quality team.

I agree with that high draft pick springboard theory.

tk13
12-30-2005, 10:30 PM
I agree with that high draft pick springboard theory.
There's truth to that, but that's also a double edged sword, because if you fail with those draft picks, you end up like the Browns... with Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, etc...

Tribal Warfare
12-30-2005, 10:49 PM
There's truth to that, but that's also a double edged sword, because if you fail with those draft picks, you end up like the Browns... with Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, etc...


Ryan Sims