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View Full Version : Which coaches go with Saunders?


FringeNC
12-31-2005, 12:04 PM
In order for the coaches to go with Saunders, they'd have to be promoted from the position they are at now? Doesn't the NFL have some policy like that?

I'd guess Saunders will take Solari or Shea as his OC...but can he take both of them? One of them wouldn't get a promotion.

jspchief
12-31-2005, 12:09 PM
In order for the coaches to go with Saunders, they'd have to be promoted from the position they are at now? Doesn't the NFL have some policy like that?

I'd guess Saunders will take Solari or Shea as his OC...but can he take both of them? One of them wouldn't get a promotion.If they are under contract, they would have to be promoted by the team they go to. Or the organization may just clean house completely in anticipation of the new HC wanting his own staff, in which case they could make lateral moves.

My guess is the contracts coincide with Vermeil's contract, and as such expire anyway.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 12:15 PM
If they are under contract, they would have to be promoted by the team they go to. Or the organization may just clean house completely in anticipation of the new HC wanting his own staff, in which case they could make lateral moves.

My guess is the contracts coincide with Vermeil's contract, and as such expire anyway.

While it is true that the coaches contracts are up at the end of this year, remember it's not the end of the season, but the end of NFL's fiscal year (i.e. March 1st). The Chiefs don't have to grant permission to talk to those guys until the contracts expire.

My speculation is that Carl will not grant the Lions or anyone else permission to talk to any of the coaches until the new HC has a chance to talk to them about staying in KC. I would further speculate that if the Chiefs gave Al permission to interview it was with the agreement that he didn't come after any of the current staff.

The key guys to keep are Shea and Solari. Let's say Herm gets the job as HC. He could conceivably keep both of them using 1 of the following 2 scenarios:

1) Promote Shea to OC and promote Solari to O-Line coach/Asst Head Coach.

2) Promote Solari to OC, Eatman to O-Line coach and promote Shea to QB Coach/Asst Head Coach

3) Promote Shea and Solari to Co-Offensive Coordinators. Shea would cooridinate the passing game, Solari would coordinate the running game. Herm would have to pick on call the plays.


I'd probably opt for option 2.

Mr. Kotter
12-31-2005, 12:18 PM
While it is true that the coaches contracts are up at the end of this year, remember it's not the end of the season, but the end of NFL's fiscal year (i.e. March 1st). The Chiefs don't have to grant permission to talk to those guys until the contracts expire.

My speculation is that Carl will not grant the Lions or anyone else permission to talk to any of the coaches until the new HC has a chance to talk to them about staying in KC. I would further speculate that if the Chiefs gave Al permission to interview it was with the agreement that he didn't come after any of the current staff.

The key guys to keep are Shea and Solari. Let's say Herm gets the job as HC. He could conceivably keep both of them using 1 of the following 2 scenarios:

1) Promote Shea to OC and promote Solari to O-Line coach/Asst Head Coach.

2) Promote Solari to OC, Eatman to O-Line coach and promote Shea to QB Coach/Asst Head Coach

3) Promote Shea and Solari to Co-Offensive Coordinators. Shea would cooridinate the passing game, Solari would coordinate the running game. Herm would have to pick on call the plays.


I'd probably opt for option 2.

That's the scenario I envision, with option 2 being the preffered also.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 12:20 PM
As of next week, none of them have contracts. They can go anywhere they want.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 12:26 PM
As of next week, none of them have contracts. They can go anywhere they want.

I think the contracts go all the way to the end of the fiscal year, not just next year. Remember when Vermeil hired Gun and Joe Vitt wanted to leave. He didn't have a new contract, but the Rams had to get permission to talk to him because his contract was up until March 1st. The Chiefs let him go before his contract technically expired.

jspchief
12-31-2005, 12:28 PM
I think the contracts go all the way to the end of the fiscal year, not just next year. Remember when Vermeil hired Gun and Joe Vitt wanted to leave. He didn't have a new contract, but the Rams had to get permission to talk to him because his contract was up until March 1st. The Chiefs let him go before his contract technically expired.I'm not going to pretend to know when the contracts expire. But I would say it seems awefully foolhardy for any coach to lock himself up through March when every year all the coaching moves happen in January.

It just wouldn't make sense.

nascher
12-31-2005, 12:35 PM
Herm won't pick anything.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 12:36 PM
I'm not going to pretend to know when the contracts expire. But I would say it seems awefully foolhardy for any coach to lock himself up through March when every year all the coaching moves happen in January.

It just wouldn't make sense.

I don't think they have a choice. I think the standard is that the contracts run to the end of the fiscal year, just like players contracts. The reason teams can't talk to free agents until March is that their contracts aren't technically up.

As for the "foolhearted" coaches, I think there is an unwritten rule amongst the NFL front offices that a coach will be allowed to go interview if the new position will be a promotion, (unless of course the team wants to consider that guy for a promotion first).

jspchief
12-31-2005, 12:42 PM
As for the "foolhearted" coaches, I think there is an unwritten rule amongst the NFL front offices that a coach will be allowed to go interview if the new position will be a promotion, (unless of course the team wants to consider that guy for a promotion first).I believe that's actually a "written" rule. Any coach can void his contract if he's being promoted by another team.

Where it doesn't mesh with the player example is that teams start hiring coaches immediately after the season. They don't have to wait for March to hire guys.

So say Joe LB coach has a contract that expires in March. Meanwhile Team A is filling all it's coaching postions in January. That makes Joe LB Coach dead in the water. His current contract runs out 2 months after everyone has done their hiring. He's fooked if he's only making a lateral move. It just doesn't make sense.

CHIEF4EVER
12-31-2005, 01:02 PM
Herm won't pick anything.

BINGO! FINALLY! Someone that sees the hiring of Herm Edwards for what it would be....a yes man for CP.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 01:11 PM
I believe that's actually a "written" rule. Any coach can void his contract if he's being promoted by another team.

Where it doesn't mesh with the player example is that teams start hiring coaches immediately after the season. They don't have to wait for March to hire guys.

So say Joe LB coach has a contract that expires in March. Meanwhile Team A is filling all it's coaching postions in January. That makes Joe LB Coach dead in the water. His current contract runs out 2 months after everyone has done their hiring. He's fooked if he's only making a lateral move. It just doesn't make sense.

1) I don't think it is a written rule because teams have to ask for permission to talk to a coach. It is out there that the Lions asked for permission to talk to Saunders a week or two ago. Clearly a promotion, but they had to ask for permission.

2) 2 years ago your scenario is exactly what happened with Joe Vitt. Yet the Rams had to receive permission from the Chiefs to talk to him.

jspchief
12-31-2005, 01:14 PM
1) I don't think it is a written rule because teams have to ask for permission to talk to a coach. It is out there that the Lions asked for permission to talk to Saunders a week or two ago. Clearly a promotion, but they had to ask for permission.

2) 2 years ago your scenario is exactly what happened with Joe Vitt. Yet the Rams had to receive permission from the Chiefs to talk to him.You could be right.

But I thought teams only need ask permission if the coach is on a team that is still playing (ie regular season or post-season).

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 01:15 PM
BINGO! FINALLY! Someone that sees the hiring of Herm Edwards for what it would be....a yes man for CP.

And you base that on what? Carl has had 3 different HCs in KC and has had the same stance under all 3: "THE HEAD COACH PICKS THE COACHING STAFF"

He did it with Marty, he did it with Gun and he did it with Vermeil.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 01:15 PM
You could be right.

But I thought teams only need ask permission if the coach is on a team that is still playing (ie regular season or post-season).

So I'm guessing you don't remember the Vitt situation?

Tribal Warfare
12-31-2005, 01:17 PM
And you base that on what? Carl has had 3 different HCs in KC and has had the same stance under all 3: "THE HEAD COACH PICKS THE COACHING STAFF"

He did it with Marty, he did it with Gun and he did it with Vermeil.

I'm still fearful of Edwards keeping the status quo on defense

tk13
12-31-2005, 01:22 PM
I'm still fearful of Edwards keeping the status quo on defense
I really doubt that. He'll draft defensive guys and throw them right out there. Look at their two safeties. One was a 2nd day pick last year that started as a rookie, and the other is a 2nd day pick this year that started as a rookie.

What he did in NY differently, at least, is they were very smart about their FA money. They never went out and threw a lot of money at someone like we did Surtain. They got guys Eric Barton, David Barrett, Ty Law... for pretty good value. And all of them performed pretty well. Filled the rest of the holes in with draft picks.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 01:25 PM
I'm still fearful of Edwards keeping the status quo on defense

Now that's an interesting question. A couple of thoughts:

1) He could bring Donnie Henderson with him and can Gun or hire Henderson to coach under Gun.

2) Herm was the DB coach with TB so he knows something about defense. The Jets defense has been very good under his regime. He may be able to give Gun some new ideas to help the D if he chooses to retain Gun. Didn't he try to hire Gun a couple of years ago?

Mr. Laz
12-31-2005, 01:33 PM
The key guys to keep are Shea and Solari.
what about James Saxon?

Holmes
Blaylock
Larry Johnson


our running backs have been pretty productive



(Asst. OLine)Irv Eatman???

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 01:49 PM
what about James Saxon?

Holmes
Blaylock
Larry Johnson


our running backs have been pretty productive



(Asst. OLine)Irv Eatman???

I agree with you, Saxon and Eatman are definitely guys to retain. In order to keep Eatman, you'd have to promote Solari to OC and make Shea the QB Coach/Asst. Head Coach. That way Eatman can be the O-Line coach out right.

The Bad Guy
12-31-2005, 02:25 PM
I think the contracts go all the way to the end of the fiscal year, not just next year. Remember when Vermeil hired Gun and Joe Vitt wanted to leave. He didn't have a new contract, but the Rams had to get permission to talk to him because his contract was up until March 1st. The Chiefs let him go before his contract technically expired.

You're wrong.

When the team is eliminated in the playoffs or the end of the regular season marks the expiration of contracts.

The only thing March 1st means is free agency.

The Bad Guy
12-31-2005, 02:27 PM
So I'm guessing you don't remember the Vitt situation?

Vitt left after G-Rob was fired. He supposedly didn't get along with Gunther and Martz named him to assistant HC, which is a promotion.

Deberg_1990
12-31-2005, 02:32 PM
Hopefully Peter Guinta. That guy is like a virus that wont go away.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 02:38 PM
Vitt left after G-Rob was fired. He supposedly didn't get along with Gunther and Martz named him to assistant HC, which is a promotion.

Yep.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 03:01 PM
Vitt left after G-Rob was fired. He supposedly didn't get along with Gunther and Martz named him to assistant HC, which is a promotion.


Yes that is what happened. But since Vitt's contract was up after that season why did it matter that he didn't get along with Gunther. Remember it took a while for Gunther to get hired because it took a while for Vermeil to decide to come back. It mattered because Vitt's contract was not technically expired yet. I distinctly remember the Rams having to ask permission to talk to Vitt. Why would they have to if his contract was up after the season was over? Simple, he was still under contract even though the season was over.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 04:23 PM
Yes that is what happened. But since Vitt's contract was up after that season why did it matter that he didn't get along with Gunther. Remember it took a while for Gunther to get hired because it took a while for Vermeil to decide to come back. It mattered because Vitt's contract was not technically expired yet. I distinctly remember the Rams having to ask permission to talk to Vitt. Why would they have to if his contract was up after the season was over? Simple, he was still under contract even though the season was over.

Vitt was hired by the Rams on 1/22/04. Vermeil and the rest of the staff signed 2-year extensions on 1/16/04.

As far as I can tell, THAT is why Vitt had to have permission. His old contract HAD expired, but he'd just signed a new one.

FringeNC
12-31-2005, 04:27 PM
Vitt was hired by the Rams on 1/22/04. Vermeil and the rest of the staff signed 2-year extensions on 1/16/04.

As far as I can tell, THAT is why Vitt had to have permission. His old contract HAD expired, but he'd just signed a new one.

So potentially Saunders could raid the whole staff.

The Bad Guy
12-31-2005, 04:28 PM
Yes that is what happened. But since Vitt's contract was up after that season why did it matter that he didn't get along with Gunther. Remember it took a while for Gunther to get hired because it took a while for Vermeil to decide to come back. It mattered because Vitt's contract was not technically expired yet. I distinctly remember the Rams having to ask permission to talk to Vitt. Why would they have to if his contract was up after the season was over? Simple, he was still under contract even though the season was over.

Vermeil agreed to a new 2-year deal on New Years eve.

We can bring this back up when assistant coaches are free to leave after tomorrow's game.

That will prove my point rather than going back and forth about it.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 04:30 PM
So potentially Saunders could raid the whole staff.

Yep.

And my guess is that Carl will let them all walk.

Carl's MO is to let whoever the new coach is pick all of his assistants. He even allowed Gunther to choose...

FringeNC
12-31-2005, 04:35 PM
Yep.

And my guess is that Carl will let them all walk.

Carl's MO is to let whoever the new coach is pick all of his assistants. He even allowed Gunther to choose...

Problem is that a new coach, especially a D coach like Williams, might want continuity on offense. I'd like our new coach to at least have the option of keeping Solari and Shea instead of them just being immediately gone.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 04:37 PM
Vermeil agreed to a new 2-year deal on New Years eve.

We can bring this back up when assistant coaches are free to leave after tomorrow's game.

That will prove my point rather than going back and forth about it.

Fair enough.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 04:39 PM
Vitt was hired by the Rams on 1/22/04. Vermeil and the rest of the staff signed 2-year extensions on 1/16/04.

As far as I can tell, THAT is why Vitt had to have permission. His old contract HAD expired, but he'd just signed a new one.

You could be right. If in the next few days I'm proven wrong, I'll be man enough to admit it.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 04:42 PM
Problem is that a new coach, especially a D coach like Williams, might want continuity on offense. I'd like our new coach to at least have the option of keeping Solari and Shea instead of them just being immediately gone.

That's gonna be all about timing.

Considering the Lions could have Saunders announced by MONDAY, I'm guessing we won't get a chance to keep them if he wants them. No way are we gonna have a new coach in 24 hours.

Tribal Warfare
12-31-2005, 04:42 PM
Hopefully Peter Guinta. That guy is like a virus that wont go away.

Yep, a turd that won't flush

FringeNC
12-31-2005, 04:50 PM
That's gonna be all about timing.

Considering the Lions could have Saunders announced by MONDAY, I'm guessing we won't get a chance to keep them if he wants them. No way are we gonna have a new coach in 24 hours.

I wonder if the Herm Edwards thing is a done deal, and the staff already in place. I'd just be surprised if Carl was stupid enough to let these guys walk.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 04:51 PM
I wonder if the Herm Edwards thing is a done deal, and the staff already in place. I'd just be surprised if Carl was stupid enough to let these guys walk.

It's Carl. :banghead:

And you never know, maybe Saunders has other people in mind too...

Skip Towne
12-31-2005, 04:53 PM
Vermeil agreed to a new 2-year deal on New Years eve.

We can bring this back up when assistant coaches are free to leave after tomorrow's game.

That will prove my point rather than going back and forth about it.
Nah, let's argue about it. This is the Planet.

htismaqe
12-31-2005, 05:59 PM
Nah, let's argue about it. This is the Planet.

ROFL

:clap:

:thumb:

Frankie
12-31-2005, 06:04 PM
The topic of this very thread is one of the major reasons I've been campaigning for the Chiefs to keep AS. We will for sure lose Solari and other good 'O' coaches. The whole thing will sting.

Ralphy Boy
12-31-2005, 07:00 PM
While it is true that the coaches contracts are up at the end of this year, remember it's not the end of the season, but the end of NFL's fiscal year (i.e. March 1st). The Chiefs don't have to grant permission to talk to those guys until the contracts expire.

My speculation is that Carl will not grant the Lions or anyone else permission to talk to any of the coaches until the new HC has a chance to talk to them about staying in KC. I would further speculate that if the Chiefs gave Al permission to interview it was with the agreement that he didn't come after any of the current staff.

The key guys to keep are Shea and Solari. Let's say Herm gets the job as HC. He could conceivably keep both of them using 1 of the following 2 scenarios:

1) Promote Shea to OC and promote Solari to O-Line coach/Asst Head Coach.

2) Promote Solari to OC, Eatman to O-Line coach and promote Shea to QB Coach/Asst Head Coach

3) Promote Shea and Solari to Co-Offensive Coordinators. Shea would cooridinate the passing game, Solari would coordinate the running game. Herm would have to pick on call the plays.


I'd probably opt for option 2.

How the hell do you figure that Shea is a key guy to keep. I think Jason Verduzco our TE coach, coordinates the passing game with Saunders, not Shea who flopped big time in Chicago.

Guru
12-31-2005, 07:06 PM
BINGO! FINALLY! Someone that sees the hiring of Herm Edwards for what it would be....a yes man for CP.

Unfortunately that is true. We need Jeff Fisher or Chucky. Carl will not attempt to get either one of them because they won't be pushed around. And Yes, they can choose to leave their contracts if they wanted too. Chucky won't, but I can see Fisher doing it.

Alphaman
12-31-2005, 07:50 PM
How the hell do you figure that Shea is a key guy to keep. I think Jason Verduzco our TE coach, coordinates the passing game with Saunders, not Shea who flopped big time in Chicago.

Shea flopped in Chicago because he didn't have the personnel to run this offense in Chicago and only had 1 year to run it. My thinking is that as the QB coach, Shea has to know the passing game extremely well in order to coach it.

You are correct about Verduzco helping to coordinate the passing game though. I didn't realize that. He may be more important to keep than Shea. Good catch.