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tk13
01-01-2006, 02:15 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13525961.htm

Carl should go, too
As Vermeil heads out, Peterson should admit his best wasnít enough
JASON WHITLOCK

Now that we know today will be Dick Vermeilís final day on the job if the Chiefs miss the playoffs, he should be remembered fondly for exiting in a dignified manner.

Oh, Vermeil might sob uncontrollably on his way out the door. His pride might force him to frame his third incarnation as an NFL head coach as a success and waste time recounting all the meaningless offensive records the Chiefs set during his five-year tenure.

But I say, if Vermeil wants to gloat, if he and Carl Peterson want to paint the picture that Vermeil set the Chiefs on a Super Bowl course, whatís the harm?

At least Vermeil isnít going to stay beyond his welcome. At least Vermeil is man enough to admit that ó this time ó his best wasnít good enough.
We canít say the same about Carl Peterson.

If today is it for Vermeil, if the Steelers beat the Lions and eliminate the Chiefs from playoff contention, then we can factually say weíve seen Petersonís best, and his best wasnít good enough.

When a confident person realizes his best isnít good enough, he tries something else. Marty Schottenheimer left the Chiefs for a number of reasons ó both personal and professional ó but the No. 1 reason was because he realized that 10 years was more than a fair opportunity to lead KC back to the Super Bowl.

It wasnít an admission of failure. It was an admission that it was time to move on.

Perhaps Vermeil is making the same admission. We should respect that, thank him for Priest Holmes, Trent Green, Al Saunders, Brian Waters, Casey Wiegmann, Dante Hall and all the other offensive toys Vermeil developed.

His Kansas City legacy will be a mixed bag. He came here convinced he could get the Chiefs to the Super Bowl within three years. Heís yet to win a playoff game as the head coach of the Chiefs and has qualified for the playoffs just once.

This year, the Chiefs are/were a playoff-caliber team. Had Larry Johnson attempted to block Scott Fujita in Dallas, the Chiefs would control their playoff destiny today and most NFL experts would view the Chiefs as a playoff sleeper.

With two playoff appearances in his last three years, Vermeil could legitimately claim he laid a solid foundation for his successor.

Instead, Vermeil is likely to be remembered for his failures: his loyalty to Greg Robinson and inability to construct an average defense, his unwillingness to discipline hot-tempered assistant coach Jason Verduzco, his feud with Larry Johnson, and his poor clock management and decision-making.

Thatís fine. Vermeil has a Super Bowl ring, two Super Bowl appearances and a marvelous reputation around the league.

We canít say the same thing about Carl Peterson.

Unlike Schottenheimer and Vermeil, Peterson is intent on holding Lamar Hunt and Chiefs fans hostage. Heís incapable of admitting that his best effort has failed.

Dick Vermeil is the best football coach Peterson knows. Peterson wanted Vermeil to coach the Chiefs in 1989. In 1989 and again in 2000, Vermeil was the perfect coach to execute Petersonís five-year plan.

Weíve already seen Petersonís plan B (Schottenheimer) and C (Gunther Cunningham). It appears weíre about to be treated to plan D. Or will it really be plan E or F, since Pete Carroll isnít leaving USC and Herman Edwards might stay in New York?

You could argue that Al Saunders should be given a chance to lead the Chiefs. Heís a terrific offensive coordinator and will likely have success as a head coach the second time around. If the Chiefs had a different GM ó Peterson and Saunders donít see eye to eye ó Iíd agree that Saunders should be the next head coach.

With Peterson here, Saunders needs to look elsewhere. Heís the best solution to Detroitís problems. Heís about the only coach who could salvage Joey Harringtonís career and get Detroitís three young receivers ó Mike Williams, Charles Rogers and Roy Williams ó to reach their potential.

In a couple of years, Chiefs fans might be complaining that Petersonís insecurity cost their football team an excellent head coach (Saunders). Iím sure those fans will be comforted by the knowledge that Peterson is still leading the fight to expand the NFL playoffs. You caught that in USA Today last week?

Having watched his team miss the playoffs seven of the last eight years, Peterson, a man obviously devoid of pride, believes the solution to KCís regular-season failure is a watered-down playoff system.

After another 17-year run as GM of the Chiefs, Iím sure Peterson will be campaigning for multiple Super Bowl champions each season.

Petersonís exit, whenever it comes, wonít be dignified. Itís several years too late for that.

KcMizzou
01-01-2006, 02:22 AM
Instead, Vermeil is likely to be remembered for his failures: his loyalty to Greg Robinson and inability to construct an average defense, his unwillingness to discipline hot-tempered assistant coach Jason Verduzco I'm curious about this... did I miss something?

Wallcrawler
01-01-2006, 02:25 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13525961.htm

This year, the Chiefs are/were a playoff-caliber team. Had Larry Johnson attempted to block Scott Fujita in Dallas, the Chiefs would control their playoff destiny today and most NFL experts would view the Chiefs as a playoff sleeper.




Gotta love the shot at Larry Johnson. What a tool. Larry Johnson is the reason the Chiefs even have the slim shot at the playoffs that they have. The guy is going to the pro bowl. And even if Johnson had blocked Fujita, it doesnt guarantee that we win in Dallas anyway. That was a first half play. The Chiefs would have had the entire 2nd half to find a way to lose, and with the way these guys play when they arent playing well, thats a lifetime.

Bottom line, a myriad of f-ups contributed to the situation the chiefs are in. Blowing a huge lead against Philadelphia AT HOME due to ridiculous playcalling, only mustering up THREE whole points against the mighty Buffalo Bills, Pissing away the entire first half out in San Diego and then actually trying to win the game in the second half, The defense electing NOT to tackle little Tiki Barber against the Giants.....the list goes on.


Doing things like this doesnt get you into the playoffs. It wasnt just one thing. There are many more instances like the ones Ive listed here, its just that Im too sickened by these alone to list the rest.

The Chiefs dont deserve to be in the playoffs given the way that they have performed. The entire defensive staff should leave right along with Vermiel, as well as any defensive free agents the team has.

Mecca
01-01-2006, 02:30 AM
I'm curious about this... did I miss something?

It's in reference to when he got maced by the cops before a game. It was a huge deal on the talk radio stations, a bunch of media people were up in arms that he'd go off on cops. Then they got even more up in arms because Vermiel defended him and they didn't do anything to him.

Guru
01-01-2006, 03:04 AM
Gotta love the shot at Larry Johnson. What a tool. Larry Johnson is the reason the Chiefs even have the slim shot at the playoffs that they have. The guy is going to the pro bowl. And even if Johnson had blocked Fujita, it doesnt guarantee that we win in Dallas anyway. That was a first half play. The Chiefs would have had the entire 2nd half to find a way to lose, and with the way these guys play when they arent playing well, thats a lifetime.

* Whitlock will never let that one rest. We just have to ignore it.

Bottom line, a myriad of f-ups contributed to the situation the chiefs are in. Blowing a huge lead against Philadelphia AT HOME due to ridiculous playcalling, only mustering up THREE whole points against the mighty Buffalo Bills, Pissing away the entire first half out in San Diego and then actually trying to win the game in the second half, The defense electing NOT to tackle little Tiki Barber against the Giants.....the list goes on.

* This safely lands on coaching.
Doing things like this doesnt get you into the playoffs. It wasnt just one thing. There are many more instances like the ones Ive listed here, its just that Im too sickened by these alone to list the rest.

The Chiefs dont deserve to be in the playoffs given the way that they have performed. The entire defensive staff should leave right along with Vermiel, as well as any defensive free agents the team has.

*Ultimately, I agree with Whitlock. Carl must go!!!! Like that was unexpected.

And I don't mean agreeing with Whitlock either. :harumph:

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 05:20 AM
The basic premise of this article is 100% dead-on.

Peterson said all along that Vermeil is the guy he wanted in 1989. Vermeil was his #1 choice. Vermeil is the best coach he could get.

Vermeil had failed. Given what Carl has said about him, Carl CANNOT do better.

It's over. Turn out the lights at Arrowhead and step aside.

Tribal Warfare
01-01-2006, 05:39 AM
we all agree that King Carl must relinquish his throne, but only the true hierarchy can pull the trigger . Inturn, Clark doesn't have the same loyalty to Carl that Lamar does

the Talking Can
01-01-2006, 05:46 AM
Carl isn't going anywhere...[intense sobbing]....

Fruit Ninja
01-01-2006, 06:07 AM
Nope, Carl isnt going anywhere yet. We are stuck with him, if we like it or not.


The Cheapshot against LJ was in poor taste. I hope LJ never talks to Twitlock again during his career in KC. I can think of at least 3 other plays that could have helped the Chiefs win that game. Blaming 1 person on the loss is really really stupid and childish, then again thats what we expect from jason.

phxchief
01-01-2006, 06:14 AM
Like someone said, LJ is the reason KC is even fighting for the playoffs as opposed to thinking about the draft.

Braincase
01-01-2006, 07:08 AM
Isn't it Whitlock hanging around the party a little late, too?

Hoover
01-01-2006, 07:11 AM
Is DV doing this so Al Saunders knows what the hell is going on in KC before he leaves?

Chieftain58
01-01-2006, 07:33 AM
Umm.. why would you agree with that Idiot Whitlock. This guy should be selling burgers at McDonalds. Vermeil is an excellent Coach and Peterson has kept the ship righted for umteen years! Look at the 49ers and what a mess they are in!! That is what you guys want! A ship without a Captain, get a clue.. do not believe the Idiot Whitlock...

Spott
01-01-2006, 07:52 AM
I agree with Fatlock on the fact that CP should have gone a while ago, but he needs to lay off of LJ and STFU. Sure he missed a block in the Dallas game, but he also had 3 TD's and over 140 yards that game. LJ wasn't on the field when the D gave up the ref assisted TD in the closing seconds either.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 08:05 AM
Umm.. why would you agree with that Idiot Whitlock. This guy should be selling burgers at McDonalds. Vermeil is an excellent Coach and Peterson has kept the ship righted for umteen years! Look at the 49ers and what a mess they are in!! That is what you guys want! A ship without a Captain, get a clue.. do not believe the Idiot Whitlock...

Carl Peterson's stated goal was to win a Super Bowl.

Carl Peteson's 1st choice for head coach - the guy he wanted above all others, was Dick Vermeil.

Carl Peterson is, by his OWN definition, a failure.

chiefqueen
01-01-2006, 08:11 AM
I think our super chances would improve if Fatlock left KC too.

milkman
01-01-2006, 08:15 AM
Umm.. why would you agree with that Idiot Whitlock. This guy should be selling burgers at McDonalds. Vermeil is an excellent Coach and Peterson has kept the ship righted for umteen years! Look at the 49ers and what a mess they are in!! That is what you guys want! A ship without a Captain, get a clue.. do not believe the Idiot Whitlock...

It's great that you are content with mediocity.

I'm not.

splatbass
01-01-2006, 08:20 AM
It's great that you are content with mediocity.

I'm not.

I'm afraid in a couple of years we may see mediocrity as "the good old days".

J Diddy
01-01-2006, 08:22 AM
I think our super chances would improve if Fatlock left KC too.


Or at least put his fat ass on the defensive line.

milkman
01-01-2006, 08:22 AM
I'm afraid in a couple of years we may see mediocrity as "the good old days".

Not me.

I still have the 60s and early 70s to hang on to!

J Diddy
01-01-2006, 08:27 AM
Not me.

I still have the 60s and early 70s to hang on to!

Me too I call that my "prebirth era"

Spott
01-01-2006, 08:28 AM
Not me.

I still have the 60s and early 70s to hang on to!

Luckily I wasn't around yet for the early 70's team because I would have never celebrated Christmas after that game back in 71.

Garcia Bronco
01-01-2006, 08:32 AM
I am going to let people in on a little secret...the AFC West has been a tough divison over the past decade. And especially since realignment. For years, SD had a tough defense. Denver is always a test, and won two Super Bowls. The Chiefs have fielded the best run game and offense in league for almost four years now and went 13-3 2 seasons. The also sported a very tough defense in the mid 90's.The Raiders had about 3 years where they were the best in football, and fielded a short passing game that was insane. Had they not had to face the one coach that built their team they would have won the Super Bowl. Even in 94 the Chargers made it to the Super Bowl. It's been hard to win in this divison.

MichaelH
01-01-2006, 08:38 AM
Again, I hate to agree with Whitlock but he's right. :banghead:

Carl could bring back Vince Lombardi from the dead and the Chiefs wouldn't get past the first round of the playoffs. It doesn't matter who he brings in, Carl and Lamar don't know how to get past average to slightly above average. They need to go a few step higher to make it to the Superbowl.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 08:40 AM
I am going to let people in on a little secret...the AFC West has been a tough divison over the past decade. And especially since realignment. For years, SD had a tough defense. Denver is always a test, and won two Super Bowls. The Chiefs have fielded the best run game and offense in league for almost four years now and went 13-3 2 seasons. The also sported a very tough defense in the mid 90's.The Raiders had about 3 years where they were the best in football, and fielded a short passing game that was insane. Had they not had to face the one coach that built their team they would have won the Super Bowl. Even in 94 the Chargers made it to the Super Bowl. It's been hard to win in this divison.

It sounds like a great excuse, until you consider that Vermeil was 17-13 against the AFC West, including 12-6 over the last 3 years.

What did him in was not winning agaisnt beatable teams like New Orleans and Houston, and getting blown out on the road by good teams...

Garcia Bronco
01-01-2006, 08:45 AM
It sounds like a great excuse, until you consider that Vermeil was 17-13 against the AFC West, including 12-6 over the last 3 years.

What did him in was not winning agaisnt beatable teams like New Orleans and Houston, and getting blown out on the road by good teams...


While what you listed is important...those AFC West games took a lot out of you...it did it to us.

old_geezer
01-01-2006, 08:51 AM
I'm afraid in a couple of years we may see mediocrity as "the good old days".

I would rather try to improve, and fail, than to sit back and wallow in mediocrity endlessly.

JohnnyV13
01-01-2006, 08:53 AM
we all agree that King Carl must relinquish his throne, but only the true hierarchy can pull the trigger . Inturn, Clark doesn't have the same loyalty to Carl that Lamar does

How the heck do you know what Clark does or does not think about Carl Peterson?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 08:54 AM
I would rather try to improve, and fail, than to sit back and wallow in mediocrity endlessly.

Yep.

Would you rather strike out swinging, or stand there and watch the ball go by?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 08:55 AM
While what you listed is important...those AFC West games took a lot out of you...it did it to us.

And yet, all we had to do was get a couple of third down stops, or make a 4th and 1 conversion and we would have been a playoff team again.

siberian khatru
01-01-2006, 08:55 AM
I am going to let people in on a little secret...the AFC West has been a tough divison over the past decade. And especially since realignment. For years, SD had a tough defense. Denver is always a test, and won two Super Bowls. The Chiefs have fielded the best run game and offense in league for almost four years now and went 13-3 2 seasons. The also sported a very tough defense in the mid 90's.The Raiders had about 3 years where they were the best in football, and fielded a short passing game that was insane. Had they not had to face the one coach that built their team they would have won the Super Bowl. Even in 94 the Chargers made it to the Super Bowl. It's been hard to win in this divison.

And yet, the Broncos, Chargers and Raiders have managed to find ways to get to the Super Bowl in Carl Peterson's tenure.

MichaelH
01-01-2006, 08:57 AM
And yet, the Broncos, Chargers and Raiders have managed to find ways to get to the Super Bowl in Carl Peterson's tenure.


The about sums it up right there! :clap:

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 09:00 AM
And yet, the Broncos, Chargers and Raiders have managed to find ways to get to the Super Bowl in Carl Peterson's tenure.

:clap:

DTLB58
01-01-2006, 09:01 AM
I agree with Fatlock on the fact that CP should have gone a while ago, but he needs to lay off of LJ and STFU. Sure he missed a block in the Dallas game, but he also had 3 TD's and over 140 yards that game. LJ wasn't on the field when the D gave up the ref assisted TD in the closing seconds either.

The reason Whitlock is trashing LJ is simple. He was CP's personal pick.

Nzoner
01-01-2006, 09:34 AM
I am going to let people in on a little secret...the AFC West has been a tough divison over the past decade. And especially since realignment. For years, SD had a tough defense. Denver is always a test, and won two Super Bowls. The Chiefs have fielded the best run game and offense in league for almost four years now and went 13-3 2 seasons. The also sported a very tough defense in the mid 90's.The Raiders had about 3 years where they were the best in football, and fielded a short passing game that was insane. Had they not had to face the one coach that built their team they would have won the Super Bowl. Even in 94 the Chargers made it to the Super Bowl. It's been hard to win in this divison.

Actually it was three 13-3 seasons,which depresses me even more.

Mr. Laz
01-01-2006, 09:44 AM
hehe ... love how snuck in that little shot at larry johnson to ruffle the feathers of the mangina's. :)



the article is correct for the most part .... the only problem is that i don't think Peterson or Hunt thinks the King Carl tenure is a failure. He's consistently made money for the Hunt Family.

money = success


lack of winning is a secondary issue


Carl will stay

Bearcat
01-01-2006, 09:44 AM
Look at the 49ers and what a mess they are in!! That is what you guys want!

ROFL

Are you serious? 3 titles in 6 years, followed by more success, followed by 3 losing seasons (even if 2 have been really, really bad) compared to 15 years of being just good enough to get excited every year but never good enough to get to the SB or bad enough to seriously rock the boat.

Uh, yeah, I'd take the rings, because we all know you can't stay on top forever..... but it would be nice to get there once.... or 3 times.

PHOG
01-01-2006, 09:45 AM
And yet, the Broncos, Chargers and Raiders have managed to find ways to get to the Super Bowl in Carl Peterson's tenure.

:hmmm: Now THAT'S depressing. :( :mad:

I guess I've become numb to the overall ineptness that is CP. :#

Rausch
01-01-2006, 09:45 AM
Nope, Carl isnt going anywhere yet. We are stuck with him, if we like it or not.


Whitlock has become the football equivalent of the "Impeach Bush" crowd.

Instead of living in some dream world write about what's there. Give us something fans could use and want to hear: an article about who you think WILL be our next coach.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 10:15 AM
I too am sick of CeePee. But I have yet to hear anyone come up with a suitable replacement. I don't know who is available that we would want. But, heck, for all I know, Clark Hunt could do it. I admit that I know little about him. Could he do it? who else could?