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View Full Version : Could LJ be our best draft pick ever?


PastorMikH
01-01-2006, 12:22 PM
I know there are A LOT of great players taken by KC, DT, Shields, Gonzo, etc. Yet, as I look at what LJ has done since coming in to start and seeing how he is breaking team records with only a partial season and leading the AFC in rushing yards with the same partial season. Add in the fact that he's still learning, could LJ be the best draft decision of all time for the Chiefs?

Jesus777
01-01-2006, 12:26 PM
What I want to know is how the hell he fell to the 27th pick.

He had a 2000 yard season averaging over 8 ypc as a senior.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 12:28 PM
If he rushes for 100 yards or more in the first 5 games of next season, he'll break Barry Sanders' record.

There won't be alot of records left at this pace.

ChiefsFanatic
01-01-2006, 12:30 PM
DT

Deberg_1990
01-01-2006, 12:31 PM
What I want to know is how the hell he fell to the 27th pick.

He had a 2000 yard season averaging over 8 ypc as a senior.

If i remember right, alot of so called "Experts" thought he was overrated and rolled up alot of those yards against inferior teams. I wonder if Buffalo wishes they would have selected him now??

Lonewolf Ed
01-01-2006, 12:31 PM
I know there are A LOT of great players taken by KC, DT, Shields, Gonzo, etc. Yet, as I look at what LJ has done since coming in to start and seeing how he is breaking team records with only a partial season and leading the AFC in rushing yards with the same partial season. Add in the fact that he's still learning, could LJ be the best draft decision of all time for the Chiefs?

Oh, come on now. When you have Trent Green throwing blocks for you, the touchdowns come easy. ROFL :clap: But in all seriousness... damn, LJ is an awesome back!

tyton75
01-01-2006, 12:33 PM
I think you get a lot better team when you draft best talent available in the draft as a rule... we had a lot of needs on Defense at that time.. but he slipped so far, not even Carl could fug it up

siberian khatru
01-01-2006, 12:36 PM
If i remember right, alot of so called "Experts" thought he was overrated and rolled up alot of those yards against inferior teams.

Be nice to Vlad. He's an old man.

Ari Chi3fs
01-01-2006, 12:38 PM
LJ is a BUST!!!11

milkman
01-01-2006, 12:40 PM
DT

DT was a great draft pick.

But he falls behind Willie, Bobby, and Buck on my list of greatest Chiefs picks ever.

And if LJ continues to produce like this in the next 4-5 seasons, he could surpass even them.

And from me, that's saying a lot.

Wile_E_Coyote
01-01-2006, 12:45 PM
LJ will get Roaf back & maybe Will will give it some serious thought. Carl get Waters signed ASAP

stumppy
01-01-2006, 12:48 PM
He very well could be. Watching the game today I've caught myself wondering if the bungals are that bad or if LJ is that good. But then I remember he's done this to several teams.

KC Jones
01-01-2006, 01:14 PM
Buck Buchanon changed the game and became the new prototype definition of NFL Defensive Tackle. LJ looks damn impressive but he has yet to make me think he's in the same league as Jim Brown, Walter Payton, etc. Another 5+ years of this sort of production and we'll be able to talk about him being up there with some of our all time greats.

Bane
01-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Hes a good no doubt,but DT is the best ever.PERIOD

Skip Towne
01-01-2006, 01:20 PM
Remember, VD squandered 2 years of his career.

milkman
01-01-2006, 01:22 PM
Hes a good no doubt,but DT is the best ever.PERIOD

No DT wasn't the best ever.
Period.

Bane
01-01-2006, 01:25 PM
No DT wasn't the best ever.
Period.
Uh ok.Whatever.

milkman
01-01-2006, 01:28 PM
Uh ok.Whatever.

Listen, you little twerp.

When invent a time machine, and can go back in time to watch the Chiefs I listed earlier as better picks, then you can state you case for DT.

But until that happens, I only have 3 words to describe you.

Your and idiot!

dj56dt58
01-01-2006, 07:12 PM
127.5 sacks, 642 tackles, and 40 forced fumbles, not to mention was responsible for many interceptions. This guy scared the living hell out of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. Teams game planned for him more than any other defensive player, and still couldn't stop him. Not to mention 7 sacks in a single game, and had 6 sacks in another game.


DT was the best ever. Period.

Mecca
01-01-2006, 07:15 PM
I think it's funny that alot of fans around the league of other teams don't think Larry Johnson is as good as we do. Here's an example, my Bills fan friend told me and I quote "Larry Johnson is no better than McGahee he just happens to have the best line in the NFL where McGahee has no line. If they switched McGahee would have his stats."

Logical
01-01-2006, 07:16 PM
Oh hell no,

Bobby Bell
Buck Buchanan
Willie Lanier
Tony Gonzalez
Will Shields

all far and away better than LJ.

It is way too premature to be giving LJ a label like that.

keg in kc
01-01-2006, 07:16 PM
One season, no matter how good, does not a legacy make. This is a discussion for 5 or more years down the road.

Logical
01-01-2006, 07:20 PM
I think it's funny that alot of fans around the league of other teams don't think Larry Johnson is as good as we do. Here's an example, my Bills fan friend told me and I quote "Larry Johnson is no better than McGahee he just happens to have the best line in the NFL where McGahee has no line. If they switched McGahee would have his stats."Until LJ does not have this line in front of him we will hear this statement. I will say that a player like LaDainian would be unstoppable behind this offensive line, so maybe there is a bit of validity to the statement.

milkman
01-01-2006, 07:21 PM
127.5 sacks, 642 tackles, and 40 forced fumbles, not to mention was responsible for many interceptions. This guy scared the living hell out of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. Teams game planned for him more than any other defensive player, and still couldn't stop him. Not to mention 7 sacks in a single game, and had 6 sacks in another game.


DT was the best ever. Period.

DT was a playmaker, I'll grant you that, and I loved to watch his game, but he was one dimensional.

Great draft pick?
Yes.

Greatest ever?
No.

Willie Lanier.
Could be.
Was one of the top 3 MLBs of all time.

Buck Buchanon.
Maybe.
As someone else noted earlier, he redefined the DT position.

Bobby Bell.
Possibly.
Was the greatest single athlete the Chiefs have ever had.
The guy that made Hank Stram's stack defense so formidable.

These guys were the core of one of the top 10 NFL defenses ever.

You guys that have never seen these guys play have no idea what you missed.

keg in kc
01-01-2006, 07:23 PM
I don't think the line argument holds up when you factor in that Roaf missed much of the year and that everyone on the right side of the line (including Shields) looked like shit most of the season. LJ did an awful lot on his own this year.

I think, however, we witnessed something we'll never see again.

tommykat
01-01-2006, 07:27 PM
I know there are A LOT of great players taken by KC, DT, Shields, Gonzo, etc. Yet, as I look at what LJ has done since coming in to start and seeing how he is breaking team records with only a partial season and leading the AFC in rushing yards with the same partial season. Add in the fact that he's still learning, could LJ be the best draft decision of all time for the Chiefs?

:hmmm: Sheesh "you think" ROFL

dj56dt58
01-01-2006, 07:29 PM
DT was a playmaker, I'll grant you that, and I loved to watch his game, but he was one dimensional.

Great draft pick?
Yes.

Greatest ever?
No.

Willie Lanier.
Could be.
Was one of the top 3 MLBs of all time.

Buck Buchanon.
Maybe.
As someone else noted earlier, he redefined the DT position.

Bobby Bell.
Possibly.
Was the greatest single athlete the Chiefs have ever had.
The guy that made Hank Stram's stack defense so formidable.

These guys were the core of one of the top 10 NFL defenses ever.

You guys that have never seen these guys play have no idea what you missed.


Granted I havn't seen those guys play, it's just hard to imagine anyone, especially at the DT tackle position being the playmaker that DT was. I would like to find some tapes of them playing though...

Logical
01-01-2006, 07:31 PM
I know there are A LOT of great players taken by KC, DT, Shields, Gonzo, etc. Yet, as I look at what LJ has done since coming in to start and seeing how he is breaking team records with only a partial season and leading the AFC in rushing yards with the same partial season. Add in the fact that he's still learning, could LJ be the best draft decision of all time for the Chiefs?
You really should have used the word decision in your header. It would have at least brought some perspective to the statement. I just noticed you used it in your thread post.

PastorMikH
01-01-2006, 09:43 PM
127.5 sacks, 642 tackles, and 40 forced fumbles, not to mention was responsible for many interceptions. This guy scared the living hell out of some of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. Teams game planned for him more than any other defensive player, and still couldn't stop him. Not to mention 7 sacks in a single game, and had 6 sacks in another game.


DT was the best ever. Period.



No disrespect to DT, in my opinion, he's still my favorite Chief of all time. But do you think that by now LJ is putting some fear into DCs around the NFL? No one has been able to stop him - not even the #1 rated rushing D in the NFL. And Larry is still a kid learning. What will he be like next year?

Halfcan
01-01-2006, 09:47 PM
Remember, VD squandered 2 years of his career.


Must of forgot we had PH racking up the yards and didn't need him.

KChiefs1
01-01-2006, 09:48 PM
I about threw my beer at the tv when they Chiefs drafted LJ. Boy do I look stupid now.......

milkman
01-01-2006, 09:51 PM
I about threw my beer at the tv when they Chiefs drafted LJ. Boy do I look stupid now.......

And that's different from your normal look, how? :p

dj56dt58
01-01-2006, 10:03 PM
No disrespect to DT, in my opinion, he's still my favorite Chief of all time. But do you think that by now LJ is putting some fear into DCs around the NFL? No one has been able to stop him - not even the #1 rated rushing D in the NFL. And Larry is still a kid learning. What will he be like next year?
If he keeps this up, then yes he just might be our best pick of all time. The difference is DT did his thing for a decade, Johnson has yet to start an entire season. If he keeps it up though, he'll give DC's more nightmares than Barry Sanders.

Cochise
01-01-2006, 10:10 PM
If we keep our offensive line intact, I definitely expect him to make a run at 2000 yards next season.

Posnanski was comparing him to Jim Brown in an article of his, and Len Dawson made the same comparison today on the radio. It's too early in his career to compare him to the best of all time, but if he can stay healthy he might earn a place of mention in that kind of company.

Personally, when I watch Larry Johnson run I don't get a feeling that I'm watching one of the best draft picks ever, I feel like I'm watching one of the best runners I've ever seen.

I'm only 26, so I've only really been watching football since 1990 or so, but so far I think he stacks up comparably to anybody I've ever seen. He's just a wild beast out there.

ChiefsFanatic
01-01-2006, 10:11 PM
Listen, you little twerp.

When invent a time machine, and can go back in time to watch the Chiefs I listed earlier as better picks, then you can state you case for DT.

But until that happens, I only have 3 words to describe you.

Your and idiot!

I agree that those guys were great. I believe that DT could take over a game all by himself with his pass rushing ability. This other players you spoke of were great, but did not, on a regular basis, completely dominate a game.

But, since I am not you, I am sure I am wrong in thinking that. You are obviously the person who has final say, so I respectfully change my opinion to yours.

Jayhawkerman2001
01-01-2006, 10:13 PM
LJ next year will be the rushing leader, he will break Alexanders touchdown record and he will break dickersons single season yards mark. he will shatter them all, because this line will stay together because they see the extreme potential to have LJ in there full time instead of part time. Having LJ in there full time all rushing marcks will be shattered, because the way that guy runs, he is the best back i have ever laid my eyes on. I am not just throwing this out because i am a chiefs fan, he will be the best back ever.

Tribal Warfare
01-01-2006, 10:15 PM
Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier

milkman
01-01-2006, 10:32 PM
I agree that those guys were great. I believe that DT could take over a game all by himself with his pass rushing ability. This other players you spoke of were great, but did not, on a regular basis, completely dominate a game.

But, since I am not you, I am sure I am wrong in thinking that. You are obviously the person who has final say, so I respectfully change my opinion to yours.

I'll try to be a little more reasonable.

Yes, DT could take over a game with his pass rushing.

But Buck Buchanon took over games by dominating the LOS, getting penetration in the backfield, hitting RBs behind the line, hitting QBs, forcing them to run into Brown, May, Culp, etc.

Teams changed their draft priorities just to find guys they hoped could match up with Buck.

Willie dominated games.
You couldn't run at him, cause he'd punish you.
You couldn't run away from him, because he would chase you down and punish you.
You couldn't pass at him, cause he would punish the receivers, forcing dropped balls, tipped ints, or just making the int himself.
And he was, when asked, which wasn't all that often, a fearsome pass rusher.
He wasn't asked all that often, because with Buck in the middle, the Chiefs front four rarely needed help getting after the QB.

And Bobby Bell was Lawrence Taylor before Lawrence Taylor.
He just didn't blitz as much.
See Buck.

If I was building a defense, and I had a choice between DT and any of these guys, I would take Bobby, Buck or Willie before I took DT.

Think about this.

There are only something like 15 LBs in the HOF, and Bobby and Willie are two of them.

milkman
01-01-2006, 10:38 PM
Also, consider, there are only 10 DTs in the HOF.

ChiTown
01-01-2006, 10:38 PM
Bobby Bell might be the finest athlete I've ever seen play the game of football.

He was absolutely amazing.

HolmeZz
01-01-2006, 10:40 PM
I wanted to trade him for Keenan McCardell. :)

KChiefs1
01-01-2006, 10:44 PM
I wanted to trade him for Keenan McCardell. :)

Dammit Carl!:cuss:

ChiefsFanatic
01-01-2006, 10:46 PM
Also, consider, there are only 10 DTs in the HOF.

Thomas should be number 11, because he did not play linebacker.

Logical
01-01-2006, 10:52 PM
Thomas should be number 11, because he did not play linebacker.:hmmm: Pretty sure he never played Defensive Tackle, at most you could say he played on occasion Defensive End

ChiefsFanatic
01-01-2006, 10:52 PM
I'll try to be a little more reasonable.

Yes, DT could take over a game with his pass rushing.

But Buck Buchanon took over games by dominating the LOS, getting penetration in the backfield, hitting RBs behind the line, hitting QBs, forcing them to run into Brown, May, Culp, etc.

Teams changed their draft priorities just to find guys they hoped could match up with Buck.

Willie dominated games.
You couldn't run at him, cause he'd punish you.
You couldn't run away from him, because he would chase you down and punish you.
You couldn't pass at him, cause he would punish the receivers, forcing dropped balls, tipped ints, or just making the int himself.
And he was, when asked, which wasn't all that often, a fearsome pass rusher.
He wasn't asked all that often, because with Buck in the middle, the Chiefs front four rarely needed help getting after the QB.

And Bobby Bell was Lawrence Taylor before Lawrence Taylor.
He just didn't blitz as much.
See Buck.

If I was building a defense, and I had a choice between DT and any of these guys, I would take Bobby, Buck or Willie before I took DT.

Think about this.

There are only something like 15 LBs in the HOF, and Bobby and Willie are two of them.


That was when O-Linemen were 250 pounds. Those players were great. Really. But they were playing against players that were not the same physically as the players DT played against. Nothing you can say will ever convince me that offensive linemen from that era were even close to being as big, athletic and fast, as the offensive linemen that DT played against.

I also think that DT really played DE most of his career. When you line up on the end of the LOS, in a three point stance, and ruch the passer, that is being a DE not a LB.

ChiefsFanatic
01-01-2006, 10:53 PM
:hmmm: Pretty sure he never played Defensive Tackle, at most you could say he played on occasion Defensive End

That is what I meant. My fingers got ahead of my brain.

milkman
01-02-2006, 10:33 AM
That was when O-Linemen were 250 pounds. Those players were great. Really. But they were playing against players that were not the same physically as the players DT played against. Nothing you can say will ever convince me that offensive linemen from that era were even close to being as big, athletic and fast, as the offensive linemen that DT played against.

I also think that DT really played DE most of his career. When you line up on the end of the LOS, in a three point stance, and ruch the passer, that is being a DE not a LB.

And Buck was only a 270 lb DT.
Bobby weighed 228.

The only one of those 3 that was big, by the standards of those days was Willie at 245 lbs.

What you are really saying is that you never saw any of those guys, so they couldn't possibly have been as good as DT.

But you are wrong.

That's fine.

I'd have a hard time comparing Sammy Baugh to Johnny Unitas.

The difference is that I won't summarily dismiss him simply because I'm not old enough to have seen him play.

alanm
01-02-2006, 10:44 AM
No disrespect to DT, in my opinion, he's still my favorite Chief of all time. But do you think that by now LJ is putting some fear into DCs around the NFL? No one has been able to stop him - not even the #1 rated rushing D in the NFL. And Larry is still a kid learning. What will he be like next year?
Larry's 26 he'll be 27 when next season rolls around. We all know the age 30 rule for RB's. So in effect he only has 3-4 more productive seasons according to the so called experts. :(

Rain Man
01-02-2006, 10:51 AM
If we're talking about the best value pick, there's no question that it's Bobby Bell. He was a seventh-round draft pick, and was our first Hall of Famer, a perennial all-pro, and a leader of a Super Bowl defense. That's a pretty darn good seventh-round pick.

Second-best would be Will Shields in my mind. The guy has made 11 pro bowls so far, and was a third-round pick. That's a lot of value for a third-round pick.

This doesn't necessarily mean that I think they were better players than some of the guys like Buchanan and Lanier and DT, but they were as good and were obtained with a lower draft pick.