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View Full Version : If Al Saunders is not the next KC Head Coach...


TRR
01-01-2006, 01:15 PM
...I will not be buying anymore KC game tickets, will not be traveling to Wisconsin for KC camp this summer, and will not be buying any KC gear for some time.

It would be an unbelievable shame to lose this offensive scheme, and have Al Saunders take another HC position elsewhere.

He has earned the right to be the next KC Head Coach...end of story.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Carl has got to be giving it serious consideration. Or else he's even more stupid than I thought he was.

Fruit Ninja
01-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Yep, i am all on the AL Saunders HC bandwagon. It would be stupid to rebuild this offense.

Mr. Laz
01-01-2006, 01:21 PM
Carl has got to be giving it serious consideration. Or else he's even more stupid than I thought he was.

keep fuggin doubtin the stupidity of carl peterson :cuss:










:p

Deberg_1990
01-01-2006, 01:22 PM
I wonder if he would keep Gun to run his defense??

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 01:25 PM
Carl has got to be giving it serious consideration. Or else he's even more stupid than I thought he was.

...the Herm Edwards thing looks like a done deal, unfortunately.

Wile_E_Coyote
01-01-2006, 01:26 PM
I agree, you could dump him after 2 years if it doesn't pan out

Rudy lost the toss
01-01-2006, 01:26 PM
I'm officially on the bandwagon. Draft Santonio Holmes or Marcus McNeil and the offense will continue to do great things IMO

Frankie
01-01-2006, 01:27 PM
It would be an unbelievable shame to lose this offensive scheme, and have Al Saunders take another HC position elsewhere.Not to mention Solari and other 'O' coaches who will probably go with him. I'm surprised this is even in question. Come on CP, We promise we will love you like when you first came aboard.

(BTW, I will neg rep the first guy who "corrects that last sentence for me")
:p

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 01:29 PM
NO!

He'll keep Gunther. We don't want that.

Frankie
01-01-2006, 01:31 PM
NO!

He'll keep Gunther. We don't want that.
Gunther bashing is overrated!

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Sorry TRR, but you might as well count on saving your money.

Carl won't hire Al.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 01:34 PM
Gunther bashing is overrated!

Almost as overrated as Gunther himself...

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 01:35 PM
Almost as overrated as Gunther himself...

Gunther is so overrated around here it's disgusting.

GoDickGo
01-01-2006, 01:36 PM
they already announced it is going to be Herm Edwards

ChiTown
01-01-2006, 01:37 PM
Almost as overrated as Gunther himself...

:clap:

Thank you, thank you very much for that. I don't want that fugger around this teamanymore than I want Al as HC.

Chiefnj
01-01-2006, 01:40 PM
NO!

He'll keep Gunther. We don't want that.


Why in the world does anyone think Al would want Gunther or anyone associated with Gun and GROB? Those defenses created heartache for him.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 01:41 PM
Saunders and Gunther are good buddies. They were both in KC under Marty.

Kclee
01-01-2006, 01:49 PM
Not to mention Solari and other 'O' coaches who will probably go with him.


Solari has a year left on his contract. He's staying.

Mr. Laz
01-01-2006, 01:54 PM
Why in the world does anyone think Al would want Gunther or anyone associated with Gun and GROB? Those defenses created heartache for him.

i don't think he would keep gun either

GoDickGo
01-01-2006, 01:56 PM
am i the only one that heard herm edwards was going to be HC?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 01:57 PM
am i the only one that heard herm edwards was going to be HC?

Yes.

There's all kinds of rumors going around, but the Chiefs haven't inked anyone yet.

If they had, it would be tampering. Coaches are under contract.

GoDickGo
01-01-2006, 01:58 PM
ooohh.. whoops

KCChiefsFan88
01-01-2006, 02:03 PM
I've made it clear who my #1 choice to replace Vermeil would be, but Saunders would be 1A on my list.

Whoever the head coach ends up being, keeping this offensive system in place has to be one of the priorities.

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 02:03 PM
am i the only one that heard herm edwards was going to be HC?

I thought it was all but a done deal, but I didn't get that feel when Gretz was talking about coaches. Williams seemed like the favorite, not Edwards.

Bwana
01-01-2006, 02:04 PM
You will save a lot of money and gas because Carl will never offer it to him.

GoDickGo
01-01-2006, 02:05 PM
why do i have a black dot next to my name and you guys have green ones?

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 02:06 PM
Gunther is so overrated around here it's disgusting.

Almost as disguisting as your dislike for him

milkshock
01-01-2006, 02:24 PM
remember saunders was part of the crappy kc offense under marty. the whole offense is dick's imo.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Almost as disguisting as your dislike for him

Disdain for failure is most certainly not disgusting. It's admirable.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 02:26 PM
why do i have a black dot next to my name and you guys have green ones?

You have to turn rep on.

The Bad Guy
01-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Almost as disguisting as your dislike for him

Hardly.

HIS defense was the REASON we didn't make the playoffs.

If he could have protected a huge lead against the Eagles, we would be watching the Chiefs next week.

Get your head out of your ass with your blind loyalty.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 03:10 PM
Almost as disguisting as your dislike for him

I have been a huge Gunther fan for years.

I jumped off the train after the New York and Dallas games.

Gunther = overrated

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 04:13 PM
Gochiefs = crybaby

getover the blame game already. If there is any blame on the defense it is the assistants. Gunther cant be held accountable when he was forced to have an inferior staff. Do you get in any topic without bashing Gunther?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 04:16 PM
Gochiefs = crybaby

getover the blame game already. If there is any blame on the defense it is the assistants. Gunther cant be held accountable when he was forced to have an inferior staff. Do you get in any topic without bashing Gunther?

Oh bullshit.

If Gunther were a REAL man, he would have said "let me pick my coaches or I'm not coming back."

**** the spineless bitch.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 04:19 PM
Lets see you do any better. Next season DC htsimage and gochiefs.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 04:20 PM
Lets see you do any better. Next season DC htsimage and gochiefs.

Predictable.

And still pathetic.

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Gochiefs = crybaby

getover the blame game already. If there is any blame on the defense it is the assistants. Gunther cant be held accountable when he was forced to have an inferior staff. Do you get in any topic without bashing Gunther?

How can one not bash Gun? Over his two-year tenure, it's been the worst D in the league. Only a blind homer could think Gun has been anything but a disaster. We had an NFL-record setting offense last year, and couldn't even muster a .500 season because our D was so bad.

CoMoChief
01-01-2006, 04:22 PM
So the only way for Al Saunders to stay is for him to become the next HC? He won't stay as an OC? I know money is an issue but if I recall he turned down Oakland and Nebraska HC jobs. Was that because he just likes working for Vermiel? This offense SHOULD NOT be tampered with by a younger coach who may come in with a big ego trying to prove something at a next level (Bob Stoops). With our oline and LJ and co., we need to focus on what we have been for the last 3-4 seasons offensively.

The Bad Guy
01-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Lets see you do any better. Next season DC htsimage and gochiefs.

I love this card.

Why are you on a message board then if you think that everyone who criticizes someone in high regard has to be able to perform their job better.

Do you argue about politics, douchebag?

If you do, then you should just stop because I'd like to see you do better.

Logical
01-01-2006, 04:47 PM
So the only way for Al Saunders to stay is for him to become the next HC? He won't stay as an OC? I know money is an issue but if I recall he turned down Oakland and Nebraska HC jobs. Was that because he just likes working for Vermiel? This offense SHOULD NOT be tampered with by a younger coach who may come in with a big ego trying to prove something at a next level (Bob Stoops). With our oline and LJ and co., we need to focus on what we have been for the last 3-4 seasons offensively.JMO but he stayed because he got a million dollar a year contract and thought he had a chance at a championship and would end up as HC here after DV retired. He will not IMO turn down a HCing job to stay here as an OC again.

whoman69
01-01-2006, 04:51 PM
Coaches with a lot less have come back from a mediocre stint as HC. Saunders has earned the job and has got to have learned alot since he was the head man in SD. Keeping him insures the offensive system stays, and unlike Martyball was never going to get it there. The defense showed in several games that its coming around. When we got beat down, it was games where the offense went to sleep. Shields and Roaf will see enough talent in this team to stick around, especially if we can improve the defensive line and give Gunther some players.
I don't think its been Gunther's coaching, but the lack of players. This team had a big hole with its dline. I would also like to see us get a receiver opposite Kennison. We're still going to rely on Gonzales, but I'd like to see him get a little tougher, break some tackles and not let a CB take him down.

BigMeatballDave
01-01-2006, 04:53 PM
...I will not be buying anymore KC game tickets, will not be traveling to Wisconsin for KC camp this summer, and will not be buying any KC gear for some time.

It would be an unbelievable shame to lose this offensive scheme, and have Al Saunders take another HC position elsewhere.

He has earned the right to be the next KC Head Coach...end of story.Yeah, because Saunders is the ONLY OC in the NFL that knows anything about this type of O...
:shake: :rolleyes:

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 04:55 PM
Keeping him insures the offensive system stays

No, it doesn't.

Is it a good possibility? Yes.

Is it 100% guaranteed? Nope.

BigMeatballDave
01-01-2006, 04:59 PM
I have been a huge Gunther fan for years.

I jumped off the train after the New York and Dallas games.

Gunther = overratedDitto...

Rausch
01-01-2006, 05:00 PM
This offseason will be the most enjoyable for Titus since 02...

BigMeatballDave
01-01-2006, 05:03 PM
This offseason will be the most enjoyable for Titus since 02...
ROFL

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 05:41 PM
I love this card.

Why are you on a message board then if you think that everyone who criticizes someone in high regard has to be able to perform their job better.

Do you argue about politics, douchebag?

If you do, then you should just stop because I'd like to see you do better.

Its just getting old listening to the constant Gunther bashing by govhiefs and others. I have tried argueing with him, but it is like arguing with a child. It goes nowhere. Gunther proved himself here the last time around. He is just being held back by inept assistants. If he is retained under the new coach, he will most likey clean house, bring in his own staff, and turn the defense around. But gochiefs and others dont want to hear that, instead, they, being the ultimate coaching gebiuses, continue to pile on the best DC in the NFL to feel better about the Chiefs coming up short...again. Gunther did not fail to tackle Barber, Gunther did not drop an easy pick against Dallas, Gunther did not fumble the ball, or drop passes, or miss blocks. I mean to say get rid of Gunther makes about as much sense as getting rid of LJ because he cant block good and he fumbled today. He, like LJ has tremendous talent ar what he does, and should not be discarded

keg in kc
01-01-2006, 05:43 PM
I'm sure the Chiefs will take this ginormous financial loss into consideration, and then they still won't hire Al Saunders.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 05:48 PM
Its just getting old listening to the constant Gunther bashing by govhiefs and others. I have tried argueing with him, but it is like arguing with a child. It goes nowhere. Gunther proved himself here the last time around. He is just being held back by inept assistants. If he is retained under the new coach, he will most likey clean house, bring in his own staff, and turn the defense around. But gochiefs and others dont want to hear that, instead, they, being the ultimate coaching gebiuses, continue to pile on the best DC in the NFL to feel better about the Chiefs coming up short...again. Gunther did not fail to tackle Barber, Gunther did not drop an easy pick against Dallas, Gunther did not fumble the ball, or drop passes, or miss blocks. I mean to say get rid of Gunther makes about as much sense as getting rid of LJ because he cant block good and he fumbled today. He, like LJ has tremendous talent ar what he does, and should not be discarded

The reason you're getting nowhere is because there's no reasonable and objective way you can defend Gunther.

His defenses have been nothing short of absolutely HORRIBLE.

The excuse that he didn't pick his assistants is totally lame. He came here of his own free will. He knew that he was going to have to keep the existing coaches. What does that say about him as a man?

If you were offered a job and then told "by the way, you're responsible for the failure of everyone under you, even though you have no control over those people are" would you take the job?

Do you HONESTLY feel Gunther is the best defensive coordinator in the league?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 05:51 PM
I'm sure the Chiefs will take this ginormous financial loss into consideration, and then they still won't hire Al Saunders.

Explain.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 05:51 PM
Its just getting old listening to the constant Gunther bashing by gochiefs and others

You IDIOT. I have been on Gunther's bandwagon his ENTIRE career in Kansas City until the last month. He SUCKS. I'm DONE defending him!

Also....


the best DC in the NFL

ROFL ROFL

Halfcan
01-01-2006, 05:52 PM
I thought Gun put together some great calls today. Besides Warfield getting burned all day as usual-he seemed one step ahead. It makes a difference when we freakin tackle.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 05:53 PM
Oh, duh. Don't explain.

You were commenting on the thread starter. This thread has gotten so out of hand, I had forgotten the comments that started it.

:D

keg in kc
01-01-2006, 06:00 PM
Yep.

And FTR I would like Saunders to be our next head coach. But it's not going to happen. We're going to hire a defensive HC. Hopefully it will be someone intelligent enough to do what Dungy did with Indy and not a martyocre clone with some cowardly play-not-to-lose attitude.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 06:02 PM
The reason you're getting nowhere is because there's no reasonable and objective way you can defend Gunther.

His defenses have been nothing short of absolutely HORRIBLE.

The excuse that he didn't pick his assistants is totally lame. He came here of his own free will. He knew that he was going to have to keep the existing coaches. What does that say about him as a man?

If you were offered a job and then told "by the way, you're responsible for the failure of everyone under you, even though you have no control over those people are" would you take the job?

Do you HONESTLY feel Gunther is the best defensive coordinator in the league?

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. My opinion is that there is no way you can lay all the blame on Gunther. And yes, I do believe he is the best out there. Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips, could not have done a bit better here than Gunther has. There was a problem on the road, but, with the exception of Philadelphia, the defense was awesome at home. I'm not sure where the blame lays for that, but why should it all be placed on Gunther?

We should start another thread to talk about this. We are totally off topic. Thats what aggravated me in the first place. I get so sick of gochiefs turning every thread into Gunther bashing. I mean, did Gunther bang his mother, sister, and wife, or what?

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 06:18 PM
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. My opinion is that there is no way you can lay all the blame on Gunther. And yes, I do believe he is the best out there. Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips, could not have done a bit better here than Gunther has. There was a problem on the road, but, with the exception of Philadelphia, the defense was awesome at home. I'm not sure where the blame lays for that, but why should it all be placed on Gunther?

We should start another thread to talk about this. We are totally off topic. Thats what aggravated me in the first place. I get so sick of gochiefs turning every thread into Gunther bashing. I mean, did Gunther bang his mother, sister, and wife, or what?

Gun the best coordinator in the league? Wow. If he were so good, don't you think GMs would be fighting over him like they are Gregg Williams, or are they just not as enlightened about Gun's true genius as you are?

Not only will Gun not get another HC job (or interview), I predict no other team will ever hire him as a DC. He's been THAT bad.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 06:23 PM
I get so sick of gochiefs turning every thread into Gunther bashing.

You're way out of line, n00b.

Gunther is nothing but a glorified linebackers coach. I give him credit for turning around Kawika Mitchell and nothing else.

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 06:24 PM
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. My opinion is that there is no way you can lay all the blame on Gunther. And yes, I do believe he is the best out there. Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, Wade Phillips, could not have done a bit better here than Gunther has. There was a problem on the road, but, with the exception of Philadelphia, the defense was awesome at home. I'm not sure where the blame lays for that, but why should it all be placed on Gunther?

We should start another thread to talk about this. We are totally off topic. Thats what aggravated me in the first place. I get so sick of gochiefs turning every thread into Gunther bashing. I mean, did Gunther bang his mother, sister, and wife, or what?

But, at the heart of it, opinions are based on something. Usually a person tries to base their opinions on fact.

There's no way to spin the facts - Gunther's defense the last 2 years has been horrid. That's not opinion.

And if you honestly believe that those three couldn't have done better, well I don't know what to tell you. We have more talent in the defensive backfield than ALL 3 of those teams (Cincy, Washington, and SD) yet we had the worst pass defense in the league again.

I'm sorry, but there's just not any evidence to support your opinion.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=FringeNC]Gun the best coordinator in the league? Wow. If he were so good, don't you think GMs would be fighting over him like they are Gregg Williams, or are they just not as enlightened about Gun's true genius as you are?

Not only will Gun not get another HC job (or interview), I predict no other team will ever hire him as a DC.

I hope you are right. I sure dont want to see the Chiefs have to play against him

sedated
01-01-2006, 06:25 PM
AL hates Gun.

AL saw the hiring of Gun as HC after Marty as a slap in the face.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 06:28 PM
I hope you are right. I sure dont want to see the Chiefs have to play against him

The Chiefs offense slapped 42 points on a defense that featured his linebackers last year.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 06:32 PM
They slapped 42 points against defensive mastermind Marvin Lewis's defense, and Gun inherited those linebackers, sent them packing, and built an excellent LB core

Brock
01-01-2006, 06:33 PM
AL hates Gun.

AL saw the hiring of Gun as HC after Marty as a slap in the face.

That's a bunch of bullshit.

Mecca
01-01-2006, 06:38 PM
The reason you're getting nowhere is because there's no reasonable and objective way you can defend Gunther.

His defenses have been nothing short of absolutely HORRIBLE.

The excuse that he didn't pick his assistants is totally lame. He came here of his own free will. He knew that he was going to have to keep the existing coaches. What does that say about him as a man?

If you were offered a job and then told "by the way, you're responsible for the failure of everyone under you, even though you have no control over those people are" would you take the job?

Do you HONESTLY feel Gunther is the best defensive coordinator in the league?

Simple as this some people are still living in 1997 and will go back to that to defend Gunther. Thats been nearly a decade, I hope some of the Gunther fans can admit he can't get the job done here now. He got all the players he asked for in free agency we didn't improve nearly as much as we should have. That's on him, he got the guys he asked for.

If the people defending Gunther think he needs all these players to have an adequete D, then that means he's not a good DC. Good DC's get good play out of average to poor players. Bad DC's need great players to make them look good........which one does it look like Gunther is?

htismaqe
01-01-2006, 06:42 PM
They slapped 42 points against defensive mastermind Marvin Lewis's defense, and Gun inherited those linebackers, sent them packing, and built an excellent LB core

What are you talking about? I think you're confused.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 06:48 PM
I assume gochiefs meant that we played well against former chief LB Duane Clemons.. if he meant something else, then yes, I am.

Rausch
01-01-2006, 06:50 PM
I assume gochiefs meant that we played well against former chief LB Duane Clemons.. if he meant something else, then yes, I am.

You are.

Clemons wasn't a LB...

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 06:50 PM
[QUOTE=FringeNC]Gun the best coordinator in the league? Wow. If he were so good, don't you think GMs would be fighting over him like they are Gregg Williams, or are they just not as enlightened about Gun's true genius as you are?

Not only will Gun not get another HC job (or interview), I predict no other team will ever hire him as a DC.

I hope you are right. I sure dont want to see the Chiefs have to play against him

I can only imagine what our O does to this D in practice. Hell, I remember reading every time they put Kris Wilson in during practice, he scores, because it confuses the D. Doesn't seem to confuse any other D.

The Bad Guy
01-01-2006, 08:20 PM
Its just getting old listening to the constant Gunther bashing by govhiefs and others. I have tried argueing with him, but it is like arguing with a child. It goes nowhere. Gunther proved himself here the last time around. He is just being held back by inept assistants. If he is retained under the new coach, he will most likey clean house, bring in his own staff, and turn the defense around. But gochiefs and others dont want to hear that, instead, they, being the ultimate coaching gebiuses, continue to pile on the best DC in the NFL to feel better about the Chiefs coming up short...again. Gunther did not fail to tackle Barber, Gunther did not drop an easy pick against Dallas, Gunther did not fumble the ball, or drop passes, or miss blocks. I mean to say get rid of Gunther makes about as much sense as getting rid of LJ because he cant block good and he fumbled today. He, like LJ has tremendous talent ar what he does, and should not be discarded

Pagac, Karmelowitz, Hairston are his guys. The only 2 that weren't were Guinta and Dean.

Gunther WAS a great DC for this organization. His time has passed. Gunther refused to play Patrick Surtain against the top receiver all year. Gunther refused to make adjustments in the Eagle game that had Terrell Owens open all day long. Gunther refused to make an adjustment when a running back goes out into the flat and the linebacker would cover the receiver and the corner would cover the back.

Gunther ISN'T even close to being the best DC in the NFL. Not even freaking close. Ron Rivera, Dick Lebeau, Gregg Williams, Monte Kiffin, and Jim Johnson run circles around him.

Stop being a freaking homer and open your eyes. The defense was the reason we didn't make the playoffs and someone has to fall on the sword. He got HIS guys for the defense and still couldn't produce.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 08:22 PM
What are you talking about? I think you're confused.

He's definitely confused. I was talking about last year's Titans game. Those were Gunther's linebackers out there.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-01-2006, 08:44 PM
I think it's a travesty that Al won't get the job, I dread the days of martyball being reborn here. Hell I don't even want a middle of the pack offense, Al NEEDS to STAY! That being said Carls' right hand man Gretz already stated we were going after a Defensive coach, while not saying a word of the possibility of Al stepping up. As usual it sucks to be a Chief fan but what am I gonna do? Go root for the donkeys? I'll die first.

Jim Jones
01-01-2006, 08:48 PM
I can only imagine what Al is going to do with that talent in Detroit, it's a TRUE shame he couldn't do it here. Carl needs to get his ego out of the way and do the right thing here, THERE IS STILL TIME.

philfree
01-01-2006, 08:52 PM
Simple as this some people are still living in 1997 and will go back to that to defend Gunther. Thats been nearly a decade, I hope some of the Gunther fans can admit he can't get the job done here now. He got all the players he asked for in free agency we didn't improve nearly as much as we should have. That's on him, he got the guys he asked for.

If the people defending Gunther think he needs all these players to have an adequete D, then that means he's not a good DC. Good DC's good good play out of average to poor players. Bad DC's need great players to make them look good........which one does it look like Gunther is?

Realisticly two years isn't enough time to turn around a D that was as far gone as ours was. Gun promised one thing when he came back and that was that we would stop the run. We stoppped the run. It took Dungy four years to get his defense in Indy to where it is now so...... Gun deserves at least one more year to finish fixing the D IMO. I'm all for Al Saunders as HC with Norv Turner as OC and Gun as the DC. Keep the O together and keep after the D.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
01-01-2006, 08:55 PM
Realisticly two years isn't enough time to turn around a D that was as far gone as ours was. Gun promised one thing when he came back and that was that we would stop the run. We stoppped the run. It took Dungy four years to get his defense in Indy to where it is now so...... Gun deserves at least one more year to finish fixing the D IMO. I'm all for Al Saunders as HC with Norv Turner as OC and Gun as the DC. Keep the O together and keep after the D.


PhilFree:arrow:

The Bears and Redskins disagree with you........for that matter the Bills went from a horrible to a pretty good defense in the same span.

philfree
01-01-2006, 08:59 PM
The Bears and Redskins disagree with you........for that matter the Bills went from a horrible to a pretty good defense in the same span.


Those teams had more talent then the Chiefs when their respective DCs took over.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
01-01-2006, 09:05 PM
Those teams had more talent then the Chiefs when their respective DCs took over.


PhilFree:arrow:

Actually in 2002 the Bills were basically exactly like us. We signed Shawn Barber, they signed Takeo Spikes. We signed Vonnie Holliday, they signed Sam Adams. We signed Dexter McCleon they signed Lawyer Milloy.

We were exactly the same they were just better at evaluating defensive talent than we were. The Bills had no more talent they went out and got it, we tried that and Gunther picked the wrong players, he got who he wanted and F'ed it up.

Rausch
01-01-2006, 09:07 PM
We were exactly the same they were just better at evaluating defensive talent than we were.

Which is why were WEREN'T exactly the same...

philfree
01-01-2006, 09:16 PM
Actually in 2002 the Bills were basically exactly like us. We signed Shawn Barber, they signed Takeo Spikes. We signed Vonnie Holliday, they signed Sam Adams. We signed Dexter McCleon they signed Lawyer Milloy.

We were exactly the same they were just better at evaluating defensive talent than we were. The Bills had no more talent they went out and got it, we tried that and Gunther picked the wrong players, he got who he wanted and F'ed it up.

This is about Gun not G-Rob. This D was toast when we lost DT, Hasty, Edwards and cut McGlockton and Williams. G-Rob made it worse and now that Gun hasn't performed a miracle after he got to add a little talent in one year he fked it up? :rolleyes:


PhilFree:arrow:

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 09:25 PM
Actually in 2002 the Bills were basically exactly like us. We signed Shawn Barber, they signed Takeo Spikes. We signed Vonnie Holliday, they signed Sam Adams. We signed Dexter McCleon they signed Lawyer Milloy.

We were exactly the same they were just better at evaluating defensive talent than we were. The Bills had no more talent they went out and got it, we tried that and Gunther picked the wrong players, he got who he wanted and F'ed it up.

excuse me..... Holliday and McCleon were not brought in by Gunther, they were already here when he got here.Nice try, cant blame Gunther there.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2006, 09:27 PM
excuse me..... Holliday and McCleon were not brought in by Gunther, they were already here when he got here.Nice try, cant blame Gunther there.

Okay, give it up.....are you a blood relative of Gun's, or a neighbor. Or maybe a Skoal brother? :hmmm:

Mecca
01-01-2006, 09:32 PM
excuse me..... Holliday and McCleon were not brought in by Gunther, they were already here when he got here.Nice try, cant blame Gunther there.

That wasn't meant as a slight on Gunther I was just showing that a defense can go from bad to good with free agent moves. What is on Gunther is that we just spent 100 million dollars on free agents he wanted and improved 3 slots that's not good enough. We paid a man corner a giant contract and Gunther decided we should play soft zone all year.

He got the LB he wanted and that LB turned into a complete bust for us. Bell is a 100 times worse signing that Barber was. Sammy Knight is what he is, he's a good player to have if you have a good defense around him.

I'm sorry I don't think the Redskins have anymore defensive talent than we do yet they get good play on their defense. I don't think Gun got enough out of these players to justify him coming back.

Rausch
01-01-2006, 09:42 PM
I'm sorry I don't think the Redskins have anymore defensive talent than we do yet they get good play on their defense. I don't think Gun got enough out of these players to justify him coming back.

Indeed.

The Chiefs allowed 19 ppg this year.

Washington allowed 18.

1 point difference per game. The gap is astounding...

milkman
01-01-2006, 09:43 PM
The Cheifs began their decline on defense with Gun as the HC.

He wasn't able to do anything without Marty holding his hand then, and he hasn't done anything since his return.

Marty knows defense.

Gun......well, he knows yellow shades.

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 09:45 PM
This is about Gun not G-Rob. This D was toast when we lost DT, Hasty, Edwards and cut McGlockton and Williams. G-Rob made it worse and now that Gun hasn't performed a miracle after he got to add a little talent in one year he fked it up? :rolleyes:


PhilFree:arrow:

Gun's 2004 D was worse than G-Rob's 2003 D. Gun was #31 in 2004. Additionally, Gun's 2004 D got substantially fewer TOs than G-Rob's 2003 D.

I actually saw little difference between G-Rob and Gun. Both telegraphed blitzes. Both played soft coverages. Both sucked. Only real difference is that Gun sold out the safeties more in run support. Better numbers against the run, but worse numbers against the pass.

Additionally, Gun is culpable for not realizing that DT was the #1 problem. He wanted Surtain and Bell instead.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 09:46 PM
Indeed.

The Chiefs allowed 19 ppg this year.

Washington allowed 18.

1 point difference per game. The gap is astounding...

20.3

And the Redskins defense was much more consistent.

Robinson's D allowed 21 ppg in 2003. You want him back?

Rausch
01-01-2006, 09:47 PM
20.3

And the Redskins defense was much more consistent.

Robinson's D allowed 21 ppg in 2003. You want him back?

It was 20.3 YESTERDAY.

We still count all 16 weeks, right?

Rausch
01-01-2006, 09:49 PM
20.3

And the Redskins defense was much more consistent.

Robinson's D allowed 21 ppg in 2003. You want him back?

I didn't say that.

I'm just pointing out that Washinton wasn't this outstanding defense, light years ahead of us. 1 ppg difference.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 09:53 PM
It was 20.3 YESTERDAY.


No it wasn't.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 09:54 PM
I didn't say that.

I'm just pointing out that Washinton wasn't this outstanding defense, light years ahead of us. 1 ppg difference.

Washington's defense had two bad games all year.

I bet you can't say that about our defense.

FringeNC
01-01-2006, 09:54 PM
Indeed.

The Chiefs allowed 19 ppg this year.

Washington allowed 18.

1 point difference per game. The gap is astounding...

Come on. Washington MADE the playoffs BECAUSE of their D. We MISSED the playoffs BECAUSE of our D. Comparing Gun's performance to William's is absurd. There is a reason that Williams is the hottest coaching prospect around, while Gun is no longer under contract.

philfree
01-01-2006, 10:03 PM
Gunthers D did look pretty bad today when it held the #4 offense in the league under 200 yards total offense and held the #3 scoring offense who avg 27.9 points a game to just two field goals. Looked awful holding Rudy Johnson to 18 yards too. :)


PhilFree:arrow:

Guru
01-01-2006, 10:06 PM
Gunthers D did look pretty bad today when it held the #4 offense in the league under 200 yards total offense and held the #3 scoring offense who avg 27.9 points a game to just two field goals. Looked awful holding Rudy Johnson to 18 yards too. :)


PhilFree:arrow:

Though things did look good in the first quarter, the fact that Palmer did not play the entire game had something to do with that.

BigMeatballDave
01-01-2006, 10:06 PM
It was 20.3 YESTERDAY.

21.5 for 15 games. NFL.com has yet to update it to 16 games...

philfree
01-01-2006, 10:09 PM
Though things did look good in the first quarter, the fact that Palmer did not play the entire game had something to do with that.

Maybe. I don't think we had ever won a game where Kitna was the QB we faced though. We completely stuffed the run againt a good offense with a very good RB.

PhilFree:arrow:

Guru
01-01-2006, 10:10 PM
Maybe. I don't think we had ever won a game where Kitna was the QB we faced though. We completely stuffed the run againt a good offense with a very good RB.

PhilFree:arrow:

I do seem to recall Kitna torching us at least once.

BigMeatballDave
01-01-2006, 10:11 PM
It was 20.3 YESTERDAY.

We still count all 16 weeks, right?It is now 20.3 for all 16 games. I figured it myself...

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 10:21 PM
There is no way you can rationalize that Fringe. A defense that allows 18 pts does not put their D in the playoffs, while 19 pts causes you to miss the playoffs, and frankly, they dont impress me. They are 10-6, just like us. They lost to every team in the AFC West, including the raders. they started 5-6 but have won their last five, only one of which was a playoff team. Tell me again why Williams is so much better than Gunther?

The Bad Guy
01-01-2006, 10:28 PM
There is no way you can rationalize that Fringe. A defense that allows 18 pts does not put their D in the playoffs, while 19 pts causes you to miss the playoffs, and frankly, they dont impress me. They are 10-6, just like us. They lost to every team in the AFC West, including the raders. they started 5-6 but have won their last five, only one of which was a playoff team. Tell me again why Williams is so much better than Gunther?

You can rationalize it.

Look at the defensive talent that Gregg Williams has to work with and then look at the handpicked talent that Gunther had to work with and you tell me who is the superior DC.

You watched the same games as I did. The Chiefs blowing a HUGE lead to the Eagles and getting run all over by the Giants and Cowboys are the reasons we aren't in the playoffs.

Get your head out of the guy's ass already. I have a history with Gun. I know him. I've talked to him several times. I like him a person. I don't want him as the DC for my favorite team anymore.

KChiefs1
01-01-2006, 10:34 PM
The Chiefs have to hire whoever keeps Scanlon & Crap Thorpe on the team!

luv
01-01-2006, 10:38 PM
...I will not be buying anymore KC game tickets, will not be traveling to Wisconsin for KC camp this summer, and will not be buying any KC gear for some time.

It would be an unbelievable shame to lose this offensive scheme, and have Al Saunders take another HC position elsewhere.

He has earned the right to be the next KC Head Coach...end of story.
If he doesn't become HC, has he said he's going somewhere else? We have focused on our offense, and had a good one for the past four or five years. We could use some help defensively.

mcan
01-01-2006, 10:57 PM
Name a coordinator that has EVER done a better job on offense, defense, or special teams... For any team... In any era... Over the same period of time...

...as Al Saunders.



You just can't do it.



For those of you who DON'T want Saunders as our next head coach, what the hell COULD he have done to have earned the job better?

mcan
01-01-2006, 11:00 PM
If he doesn't become HC, has he said he's going somewhere else? We have focused on our offense, and had a good one for the past four or five years. We could use some help defensively.


Yeah, help in terms of developing young talent, drafting defensive line depth, and maybe picking up another corner...

But picking up a defensive head coach at the expense of ditching Al Saunders (who has proven himself to be the best football mind the Chiefs have EVER had on their coaching staff) is foolish, IMO...

luv
01-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Yeah, help in terms of developing young talent, drafting defensive line depth, and maybe picking up another corner...

But picking up a defensive head coach at the expense of ditching Al Saunders (who has proven himself to be the best football mind the Chiefs have EVER had on their coaching staff) is foolish, IMO...
Not saying I don't want him as HC, but would he leave the organization if we don't? If someone else would be quick to pick him up, then I say keep him. But we need to pick up players who can work in Gunther's style. I agree with that.

jjchieffan
01-01-2006, 11:17 PM
You can rationalize it.

Look at the defensive talent that Gregg Williams has to work with and then look at the handpicked talent that Gunther had to work with and you tell me who is the superior DC.

You watched the same games as I did. The Chiefs blowing a HUGE lead to the Eagles and getting run all over by the Giants and Cowboys are the reasons we aren't in the playoffs.

Get your head out of the guy's ass already. I have a history with Gun. I know him. I've talked to him several times. I like him a person. I don't want him as the DC for my favorite team anymore.

Lets see, they lost 36-0 to the Giants

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:17 PM
For those of you who DON'T want Saunders as our next head coach, what the hell COULD he have done to have earned the job better?

Um, hello? Done a better job when Roaf went down?

Saunders looked AWESOME in 2001, didn't he! ROFL

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:18 PM
Lets see, they lost 36-0 to the Giants

Like I said, that was one of TWO bad games the Skins defense had all year.

The Redskins are a good defense because they are CONSISTENT. Something the Chiefs know NOTHING about.

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:22 PM
Name a coordinator that has EVER done a better job on offense, defense, or special teams... For any team... In any era... Over the same period of time...

...as Al Saunders.



You just can't do it.



For those of you who DON'T want Saunders as our next head coach, what the hell COULD he have done to have earned the job better?

I honestly think that worrying about Saunders seems futile, it appears accurate the Carl and Al don't want to work together. For that reason alone Al should not be our Head Coach. Carl is poor enough as a GM without not getting along with the HC.

morphius
01-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I don't want to keep AS for HC for the simple reason that I'm afraid that he would keep all the defensive coaches, and most of those guys need to be cut, and quickly.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:28 PM
This Al talk is getting old.

We need someone who can build, manage and coach a DEFENSE.

Has Al Squanders EVER done that?

NO.

mcan
01-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Um, hello? Done a better job when Roaf went down?

Saunders looked AWESOME in 2001, didn't he! ROFL


We were a fantastic offense BEFORE Roaf was even on the team!

If you think that implementing a new system with players who had just met each other, and a brand new head coach is easy... Well, wait a second. Maybe it IS easy. I mean, we did have the FIFTH most productuve offense in the entire NFL that year, and Priest Holmes led the league in rushing. Ummm.... Maybe Al Saunders could have done a better job by coming over to your house and mowing your lawn?

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:33 PM
We were a fantastic offense BEFORE Roaf was even on the team!

If you think that implementing a new system with players who had just met each other, and a brand new head coach is easy... Well, wait a second. Maybe it IS easy. I mean, we did have the FIFTH most productuve offense in the entire NFL that year, and Priest Holmes led the league in rushing. Ummm.... Maybe Al Saunders could have done a better job by coming over to your house and mowing your lawn?

Al has done a great job with the offense.

He's not the right fit here. We need someone with a defensive background.

shaneo69
01-01-2006, 11:33 PM
As long as we keep Solari, Shea, and/or Verduzco, our offense will be the same. Except we might actually get better play-calling.

I am hoping that Saunders goes to the Jets when Herm leaves so that he can start his favorite RB (Blaylock), and maybe he can sign his secret weapon TE/HB/FB when our new coach cuts him next August.

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:34 PM
We were a fantastic offense BEFORE Roaf was even on the team!

If you think that implementing a new system with players who had just met each other, and a brand new head coach is easy... Well, wait a second. Maybe it IS easy. I mean, we did have the FIFTH most productuve offense in the entire NFL that year, and Priest Holmes led the league in rushing. Ummm.... Maybe Al Saunders could have done a better job by coming over to your house and mowing your lawn?

Sorry but that is just not true. Roaf arrived in 2002 the same year our offense took off. We were 16th in points the year before he arrived, exactly the middle of the NFL pack.

tk13
01-01-2006, 11:37 PM
This Al talk is getting old.

We need someone who can build, manage and coach a DEFENSE.

Has Al Squanders EVER done that?

NO.
Herm Edwards! All aboard!

mcan
01-01-2006, 11:37 PM
This Al talk is getting old.

We need someone who can build, manage and coach a DEFENSE.

Has Al Squanders EVER done that?

NO.


This is rediculous... Look. You think that Al has torched every defense in the NFL over and over again and doesn't know anything about defense?

A hacker has to be a computer expert if he wants to effectively exploit them. Al Saunders has been effectively exploiting just about every defensive system that has been thrown his way over the past 5 years. HE HAS EARNED THIS JOB...

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:39 PM
This is rediculous... Look. You think that Al has torched every defense in the NFL over and over again and doesn't know anything about defense?

A hacker has to be a computer expert if he wants to effectively exploit them. Al Saunders has been effectively exploiting just about every defensive system that has been thrown his way over the past 5 years. HE HAS EARNED THIS JOB...

That's all true.

It's also true that Al has never built an NFL defense or even coached one.

WE NEED SOMEONE THAT HAS.

Also, he's British. F*CK THAT PUSSY!

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Herm Edwards! All aboard!ROFL

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Herm Edwards! All aboard!

I can live with Herm.

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Tk, You know, this is the most interesting the BB has been in months.

shaneo69
01-01-2006, 11:42 PM
Tk, You know, this is the most interesting the BB has been in months.

I'm glad we've been able to keep you amused, Vlad.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:42 PM
Tk, You know, this is the most interesting the BB has been in months.

ROFL

The months to come are going to be SO much fun.

I can't wait to see the BB divide over the new coach.

Lines will be drawn. Borders will be established. Sigs will be photoshopped.

Hell, I might even get banned again.

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm glad we've been able to keep you amused, Vlad.Thanks, you all have been doing a great job.

tk13
01-01-2006, 11:50 PM
Tk, You know, this is the most interesting the BB has been in months.
Yeah, it's like 2001 all over again. I was the raving newbie who defended Trent Green even when he threw 3 picks a week, everybody thought I was nuts... ROFL

|Zach|
01-01-2006, 11:51 PM
...I will not be buying anymore KC game tickets, will not be traveling to Wisconsin for KC camp this summer, and will not be buying any KC gear for some time.

It would be an unbelievable shame to lose this offensive scheme, and have Al Saunders take another HC position elsewhere.

He has earned the right to be the next KC Head Coach...end of story.
Ok.

Count Zarth
01-01-2006, 11:53 PM
Yeah, it's like 2001 all over again. I was the raving newbie who defended Trent Green even when he threw 3 picks a week, everybody thought I was nuts... ROFL

That must have been a hell of an effort week in and week out.

|Zach|
01-01-2006, 11:53 PM
I will be looking forward to this upcoming season no matter who is roaming the sidelines.

I look forward to what another coach will be able to bring to the table with the amount of talent this team has.

I am not smart enough to know who the best person is to fill the job but I am excited to see what goes down.

huskerdooz
01-01-2006, 11:55 PM
remember saunders was part of the crappy kc offense under marty. the whole offense is dick's imo.

This offensive system has it's direct roots to Don Coryell's system in SD and Al was a member of that staff. Al's offensive philosophy has always been light years ahead of what Marty wanted to use. If only Marty would have been smart enough to hire Al as the OC when he was here and changing OC's every 3-4 yrs trying to get more offense.

Logical
01-01-2006, 11:56 PM
Yeah, it's like 2001 all over again. I was the raving newbie who defended Trent Green even when he threw 3 picks a week, everybody thought I was nuts... ROFL

I was just gaining my reputation as being contrary defending him. I must admit by about the 12th game I was ready to bench him.

This is my 69th post of the day. I have not been over 50 in ages.

Mecca
01-01-2006, 11:59 PM
I was just gaining my reputation as being contrary defending him. I must admit by about the 12th game I was ready to bench him.

This is my 69th post of the day. I have not been over 50 in ages.

:Elvis: Heh heh, 69.........

grandllama
01-02-2006, 12:00 AM
I will be looking forward to this upcoming season no matter who is roaming the sidelines.

I look forward to what another coach will be able to bring to the table with the amount of talent this team has.

I am not smart enough to know who the best person is to fill the job but I am excited to see what goes down.

You know, its been awhile, but I agree with Zach...

I have my own preferences, but as to how well they would work out (um, I predicted Gun coming back and you see how well that has worked) I have no clue...

grandllama
01-02-2006, 12:00 AM
:Elvis: Heh heh, 69.........

That's just not logical.... ROFL

mcan
01-02-2006, 12:03 AM
Sorry but that is just not true. Roaf arrived in 2002 the same year our offense took off. We were 16th in points the year before he arrived, exactly the middle of the NFL pack.


Vlad, I like you bro, but you're overlooking the obvious... You don't just ACCIDENTALLY lead the NFL in rushing. Also, the Points Per Game margin that year from the top teams #8 to #16 was only a point and a half difference. That's three touchdowns and a field goal over the course of a whole season.

Now I'm not making excuses for Al. I mean, why shouldn't he have scored a TON of points with guys like Snoop Minnis and Derrick Alexander starting? Seems like inheriting an offense where your center retires, your quarterback ditches out, and your starting running back is actually a fullback should be easy to get turned around...

But on a serious note. Has anybody noticed how we're batting damn near 100% on every single personel decision that we've made on offense since Al Saunders has been here? Trent, check. Priest, check. Eddie, check. Roaf, check. Weigman, check. Welbourne, check. Johnson, check. We haven't gotten burned by the seemingly endless string of disastrous free agent moves and crappy 2nd round running backs (cloud, sheehe, etc...) that plagued this team before he got here.

Logical
01-02-2006, 12:05 AM
Vlad, I like you bro, but you're overlooking the obvious... You don't just ACCIDENTALLY lead the NFL in rushing. Also, the Points Per Game margin that year from the top teams #8 to #16 was only a point and a half difference. That's three touchdowns and a field goal over the course of a whole season.

Now I'm not making excuses for Al. I mean, why shouldn't he have scored a TON of points with guys like Snoop Minnis and Derrick Alexander starting? Seems like inheriting an offense where your center retires, your quarterback ditches out, and your starting running back is actually a fullback should be easy to get turned around...

But on a serious note. Has anybody noticed how we're batting damn near 100% on every single personel decision that we've made on offense since Al Saunders has been here? Trent, check. Priest, check. Eddie, check. Roaf, check. Weigman, check. Welbourne, check. Johnson, check. We haven't gotten burned by the seemingly endless string of disastrous free agent moves and crappy 2nd round running backs (cloud, sheehe, etc...) that plagued this team before he got here.I think you misunderstand my intent. I agree he was turning it around the year before Roaf got here, but I cannot agree that we had a top offense that year.

huskerdooz
01-02-2006, 12:09 AM
I mean, did Gunther bang his mother, sister, and wife, or what?

He's probably just upset because he was next in line and Gunther couldn't get it up any longer.

mcan
01-02-2006, 12:09 AM
You know, its been awhile, but I agree with Zach...

I have my own preferences, but as to how well they would work out (um, I predicted Gun coming back and you see how well that has worked) I have no clue...


I think Gun coming back has been a big boost. It takes awhile to get a great defense. It takes time, work, and luck. We've definately not been lucky lately, but more time and more work should make this defense great again. I'm tremendously optimistic about next year given that Shields comes back...

If Saunders was Head Coach
Terry Shea was O.C.
Gunther Cunningham was D.C.
Frank Ganz was Sp. Teams C.
and we were able to keep Mike Solari then we will be golden...

Mecca
01-02-2006, 12:12 AM
I think Gun coming back has been a big boost. It takes awhile to get a great defense. It takes time, work, and luck. We've definately not been lucky lately, but more time and more work should make this defense great again. I'm tremendously optimistic about next year given that Shields comes back...

If Saunders was Head Coach
Terry Shea was O.C.
Gunther Cunningham was D.C.
Frank Ganz was Sp. Teams C.
and we were able to keep Mike Solari then we will be golden...

If you really want Ganz back I question your sanity.

luv
01-02-2006, 12:13 AM
I've heard Jeff Fisher's name mentioned from the Titans. Any thoughts on him?

shaneo69
01-02-2006, 12:14 AM
But on a serious note. Has anybody noticed how we're batting damn near 100% on every single personel decision that we've made on offense since Al Saunders has been here? Trent, check. Priest, check. Eddie, check. Roaf, check. Weigman, check. Welbourne, check. Johnson, check. We haven't gotten burned by the seemingly endless string of disastrous free agent moves and crappy 2nd round running backs (cloud, sheehe, etc...) that plagued this team before he got here.

I wouldn't say that Kris Wilson and Snoop Minnis were any better 2nd and 3rd round picks than Cloud and Shehee.

And I wouldn't call Johnny Morton a great FA acquisition. I remember Al being impressed with him for ordering grilled chicken instead of a hamburger at the restaurant when they met on Johnny's visit. Al raved about how Johnny never got hurt because he took such good care of himself.

mcan
01-02-2006, 12:15 AM
I think you misunderstand my intent. I agree he was turning it around the year before Roaf got here, but I cannot agree that we had a top offense that year.


Even though we sported the leagues leading rusher WHILE rebuilding? We also posted a few gaudy point totals when we were firing. Even with mediocre talent, and a brand new system we still put up 40 some odd points against Washington and ran roughshod over just about everybody we played. We just got bottled up in the red zone and had WAY too many turnovers, about half of which were a direct result of batted balls at the line of scrimmage and recievers running the wrong routes.

mcan
01-02-2006, 12:23 AM
If you really want Ganz back I question your sanity.


Of course, I meant Frank Ganz JR....

I think that as long as Dante Hall is here, we should retain coach Ganz. They had a bit of a down year, as far as big returns, but there is no reason to think that suddenly our special teams unit is going to totally suck. Yeah, that missed field goal in dallas hurt, but it's tough to blame the Special Teams coach for a bad snap by a guy who just came in that week due to injuries....

luv
01-02-2006, 12:26 AM
I've heard Jeff Fisher's name mentioned from the Titans. Any thoughts on him?
Guess not.

shaneo69
01-02-2006, 12:29 AM
Guess not.

Fisher has been barely better than martyocre during his tenure with the Titans, and his teams the last two years have been horrible.

Mecca
01-02-2006, 12:42 AM
Of course, I meant Frank Ganz JR....

I think that as long as Dante Hall is here, we should retain coach Ganz. They had a bit of a down year, as far as big returns, but there is no reason to think that suddenly our special teams unit is going to totally suck. Yeah, that missed field goal in dallas hurt, but it's tough to blame the Special Teams coach for a bad snap by a guy who just came in that week due to injuries....

I think he's just living off Dantes 2003 year. Our blocking and coverage units are amont the worst in the league.

luv
01-02-2006, 12:43 AM
Fisher has been barely better than martyocre during his tenure with the Titans, and his teams the last two years have been horrible.
Thanks. I hadn't heard anything about him besides his name, and that he might be available next year.

Mecca
01-02-2006, 12:43 AM
Fisher has been barely better than martyocre during his tenure with the Titans, and his teams the last two years have been horrible.

Let's take into account he got hired when that team was horrible, was there as they built up and went to the Superbowl. They kept pushing back contracts and got in a bad cap situation. Their current situation is more their GM's fault than his. It's also not easy to be a good coach when your starting QB misses several starts every single year.

Count Zarth
01-02-2006, 12:44 AM
Ganz should be F*CKING FIRED immediately. His coverage teams have always sucked and have never gotten any better.

And again, THANKS SAUNDERS. We don't NEED you as a head coach. We NEED a defensive mastermind.

Logical
01-02-2006, 12:46 AM
If you really want Ganz back I question your sanity.I won't question his sanity, but Ganz and Gun and their complete staffs need to be gone, gone, gone.

Logical
01-02-2006, 12:49 AM
Of course, I meant Frank Ganz JR....

I think that as long as Dante Hall is here, we should retain coach Ganz. They had a bit of a down year, as far as big returns, but there is no reason to think that suddenly our special teams unit is going to totally suck. Yeah, that missed field goal in dallas hurt, but it's tough to blame the Special Teams coach for a bad snap by a guy who just came in that week due to injuries....It is his coverage teams that suck, and I don't think he made Dante a success, without Dante he would be a complete failure.

Logical
01-02-2006, 12:51 AM
Fisher has been barely better than martyocre during his tenure with the Titans, and his teams the last two years have been horrible.Not quite true, he did take a team to the Super Bowl and lose by 1/2 a yard in the last second.

luv
01-02-2006, 12:54 AM
It is his coverage teams that suck, and I don't think he made Dante a success, without Dante he would be a complete failure.
What does his focus seem to be? Offense or defense?

Frankie
01-02-2006, 12:54 AM
Indeed.

The Chiefs allowed 19 ppg this year.

Washington allowed 18.

1 point difference per game. The gap is astounding...Washington also plays in a far easier division than AFC West which makes their schedule immediately easier.

Mecca
01-02-2006, 12:56 AM
Not quite true, he did take a team to the Super Bowl and lose by 1/2 a yard in the last second.

To a team that many people think had the best offense in the history of the NFL.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 12:56 AM
Though things did look good in the first quarter, the fact that Palmer did not play the entire game had something to do with that.Wasn't Kitna the QB when they beat us last year? Palmer is great, but Kitna is no Ryan Leaf either. The argument still stands. Gun's D did a hell of a job against Rudi and company.

Logical
01-02-2006, 12:57 AM
What does his focus seem to be? Offense or defense?Sorry to confuse you, that post was about Frank Ganz Jr.

I believe Fisher was a defensive coach before he became a Head Coach.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 12:59 AM
There is no way you can rationalize that Fringe. A defense that allows 18 pts does not put their D in the playoffs, while 19 pts causes you to miss the playoffs, and frankly, they dont impress me. They are 10-6, just like us. They lost to every team in the AFC West, including the raders. they started 5-6 but have won their last five, only one of which was a playoff team. Tell me again why Williams is so much better than Gunther?Because he belongs to another team, DON'T YOU KNOW THAT BY NOW?!!

luv
01-02-2006, 12:59 AM
Sorry to confuse you, that post was about Frank Ganz Jr.

I believe Fisher was a defensive coach before he became a Head Coach.
My bad. I quoted the wrong post.

Logical
01-02-2006, 01:05 AM
Because he belongs to another team, DON'T YOU KNOW THAT BY NOW?!!

Well there is that small issue of inconsistency even in his previous tenure, good one year bad the next, then good then bad. This time Gun has just been plain bad. Not to mention his deplorable history as Head Coach, but that probably could be said about Williams as well.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 01:05 AM
This is rediculous... Look. You think that Al has torched every defense in the NFL over and over again and doesn't know anything about defense?

A hacker has to be a computer expert if he wants to effectively exploit them. Al Saunders has been effectively exploiting just about every defensive system that has been thrown his way over the past 5 years. HE HAS EARNED THIS JOB...Brilliant! :bravo:

Frankie
01-02-2006, 01:07 AM
Yeah, it's like 2001 all over again. I was the raving newbie who defended Trent Green even when he threw 3 picks a week, everybody thought I was nuts... ROFLJoin the club. :toast:

Frankie
01-02-2006, 01:09 AM
I've heard Jeff Fisher's name mentioned from the Titans. Any thoughts on him?O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

Frankie
01-02-2006, 01:24 AM
Hey Gunther bashers. Gunther is NOT the best DC in the league. Just one of the best. I was proud of our D the last two weeks and more weeks than not in this season. Let me put this in terms you'd understand. Imagine, if you would, a man who is told to polish a certain piece of ordinary rock into a gem. "Where" he asks "is this stone?" The answer, "Deep in the crapper." He rolls up his sleeves, reaches down into the crapper, puls out the rock and starts to clean it up (= Gun in 2004). Then he finishes the cleaning and proceeds to polish it up to a point where under some lighting conditions there are glimers indicating a good potential for a gem(= Gun in 2005). He should be given the chance for the 3rd phase. Gun did not start from level ground with this 'D.' He started from the depth of the crapper last year. Let him hire the coaches he wants and finish polishing this stone. Next year this time we just might be talking about a gem of a defense. In the meantime, let's not throw the absolute diamond that we have in our offense into the Crapper.

SAUNDERS FOR HC BABY!

milkman
01-02-2006, 01:47 AM
Hey Gunther bashers. Gunther is NOT the best DC in the league. Just one of the best. I was proud of our D the last two weeks and more weeks than not in this season. Let me put this in terms you'd understand. Imagine, if you would, a man who is told to polish a certain piece of ordinary rock into a gem. "Where" he asks "is this stone?" The answer, "Deep in the crapper." He rolls up his sleeves, reaches down into the crapper, puls out the rock and starts to clean it up (= Gun in 2004). Then he finishes the cleaning and proceeds to polish it up to a point where under some lighting conditions there are glimers indicating a good potential for a gem(= Gun in 2005). He should be given the chance for the 3rd phase. Gun did not start from level ground with this 'D.' He started from the depth of the crapper last year. Let him hire the coaches he wants and finish polishing this stone. Next year this time we just might be talking about a gem of a defense. In the meantime, let's not throw the absolute diamond that we have in our offense into the Crapper.

SAUNDERS FOR HC BABY!

Nice analogous post, but it's crap.

BigMeatballDave
01-02-2006, 01:49 AM
Hey Gunther bashers. Gunther is NOT the best DC in the league. Just one of the best. I was proud of our D the last two weeks and more weeks than not in this season. Let me put this in terms you'd understand. Imagine, if you would, a man who is told to polish a certain piece of ordinary rock into a gem. "Where" he asks "is this stone?" The answer, "Deep in the crapper." He rolls up his sleeves, reaches down into the crapper, puls out the rock and starts to clean it up (= Gun in 2004). Then he finishes the cleaning and proceeds to polish it up to a point where under some lighting conditions there are glimers indicating a good potential for a gem(= Gun in 2005). He should be given the chance for the 3rd phase. Gun did not start from level ground with this 'D.' He started from the depth of the crapper last year. Let him hire the coaches he wants and finish polishing this stone. Next year this time we just might be talking about a gem of a defense. In the meantime, let's not throw the absolute diamond that we have in our offense into the Crapper.

SAUNDERS FOR HC BABY!Whatever. Where was the D when it really mattered?

Frankie
01-02-2006, 01:57 AM
Whatever. Where was the D when it really mattered?A work in progress. It still is. Sorry if it didn't arrive in time. But shit happens.

Count Zarth
01-02-2006, 01:59 AM
The problem is Gunther took the stone and shoved it up his ass.

Logical
01-02-2006, 02:02 AM
He polished the shit out of it, only to find it was mostly fools gold.

milkman
01-02-2006, 02:05 AM
A work in progress. It still is. Sorry if it didn't arrive in time. But shit happens.

Why is Gun the only "great" DC that needs 3 years to turn a defense around?

huskerdooz
01-02-2006, 02:11 AM
The problem is Gunther took the stone and shoved it up his ass.

I realize that this probably isn't a revelation to most people on this board, but after reading your BS on this subject for the past couple of days, I've come to the realization that your a real asshole.

Count Zarth
01-02-2006, 02:13 AM
I realize that this probably isn't a revelation to most people on this board, but after reading your BS on this subject for the past couple of days, I've come to the realization that your a real asshole.

I love Gunther as a person. I wish he was better at his job.

htismaqe
01-02-2006, 06:12 AM
This is rediculous... Look. You think that Al has torched every defense in the NFL over and over again and doesn't know anything about defense?

A hacker has to be a computer expert if he wants to effectively exploit them. Al Saunders has been effectively exploiting just about every defensive system that has been thrown his way over the past 5 years. HE HAS EARNED THIS JOB...

Al is a brilliant tactician, much like your hacker.

Brilliant tacticians can't always think strategically. Ask you hacker how to exploit a singular flaw and they can.

Then ask them to design a homogeneous, end-to-end system that is both effective and secure and they'll look at you funny.

A head coach has to be able to see the big picture. Nurture players, nurture other coaches, motivate. There's more to being a head coach than X's and O's. I've seen plenty from Al Saunders that makes me wonder if he can do that.

htismaqe
01-02-2006, 06:18 AM
A work in progress. It still is. Sorry if it didn't arrive in time. But shit happens.

Sorry, but Gunther is a failure.

He's a de facto endorsement of your candidate for HC, Al Saunders for you.

Al got his players in 2 consective seasons, and by his 2nd year as OC we had THE BEST offense in the league.

The first season, we added 2 journeymen (Green and Holmes) and the 2nd added 1 player who was top 3 at his position (Roaf) and another journeyman (Kennison).

Gunther got his players all in one fell swoop. He got 1 player who was top 3 at his position (Surtain) and two former DRoY. His defense improved MARGINALLY and still was the primary reason we missed the playoffs.

It's not possible for you to support both Gunther and Al for their jobs, unless you don't care about contradicting yourself.

Count Zarth
01-02-2006, 06:21 AM
Kennison actually got here in late 2001 and the impact was evident immediately. We looked like a different offense.

Archie F. Swin
01-02-2006, 07:10 AM
I dont care who the next HC is....so long as he inspires this team to win on the road. For gawds sake...just win one on the road!

Elwaysux
01-02-2006, 07:36 AM
The word here is that Herm is not going anywhere. That being said, I want to see the Chiefs clean house. How many games were we outcoached this year as evidenced by our poor second half productivity? If I never have to travel to see games like Philadelphia (as my one trip to Arrowhead for the year) or friggin' Buffalo it will help me live longer.

Extra Point
01-02-2006, 09:15 AM
Saunders knows how to work with Gun. Get Norv Turner as OC, and keep Frank, Jr as STC. Then we're on a roll!!!

Frankie
01-02-2006, 09:22 AM
Why is Gun the only "great" DC that needs 3 years to turn a defense around?

1- I do believe detoxing our players from the habits of GRob's stupid system required the first year. Gun brought things up to "zero" last year. Consider 2005 his first year of starting from zero.

2- You suddenly see other DCs' finished products this year and you assume they were zero last year. How do you know others haven't taken 2, 3, 0r 4 years to finally show off a great 'D?'

jlscorpio
01-02-2006, 09:28 AM
If they hire AS, its more of the same. I want a fresh start. I want a young coach that's hungry to leave his mark on the league and the city. Right now my choice is Gregg Williams. I think there's a lot of similarities between him and Belichick. LJ is the future of this team, not fake double reverses, ala Saunders.

NewChief
01-02-2006, 09:29 AM
I'd love to see Al for HC, but I don't think it's going to happen. The friction between he and Carl is real, and it's a prohibitive factor in his selection.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Gunther got his players all in one fell swoop. He got 1 player who was top 3 at his position (Surtain) and two former DRoY. His defense improved MARGINALLY and still was the primary reason we missed the playoffs.

It's not possible for you to support both Gunther and Al for their jobs, unless you don't care about contradicting yourself.

Every situation is different. Al's journeymen were the right ingredient for his scheme, while Gun's additions were only the best available last year while they may not have been perfect, readymade fit. Who knows? Plus Gun was saddled with lower quality coaches under him. Al had no such problem. Also I said earlier, Gun is NOT the best 'D' man out there. Al, IMO, is damn near the best 'O' man. If I were forced to keep one at the expence of losing the other, I'd keep Al Saunders.

Toad
01-02-2006, 09:48 AM
I thought Gun put together some great calls today. Besides Warfield getting burned all day as usual-he seemed one step ahead. It makes a difference when we freakin tackle.

Yes he did, BUT it was the inconsistency from both cordinators all year that I feel let this team down. Both Sauders and Gun had great games with some good adjustments AND they also had some games with some poor planning/adjustments. Both the Philly (second half) and the Buff game stick out big time.

milkman
01-02-2006, 09:52 AM
1- I do believe detoxing our players from the habits of GRob's stupid system required the first year. Gun brought things up to "zero" last year. Consider 2005 his first year of starting from zero.

2- You suddenly see other DCs' finished products this year and you assume they were zero last year. How do you know others haven't taken 2, 3, 0r 4 years to finally show off a great 'D?'

Greg(with another g) Williams was responsible for turning around the Titans in one year, and the Bills D, as HC in 1 year.

Mike Trgovac did the same in Carolina.

Ron Rivera, with the Bears.

But the Genious that is Gun needs 3 years.

FringeNC
01-02-2006, 10:08 AM
Greg Williams was responsible for turning around the Titans in one year, and the Bills D, as HC in 1 year.

Mike Trgovac did the same in Carolina.

Ron Rivera, with the Bears.

But the Genious that is Gun needs 3 years.

Jim Bates greatly improved the Packers this year. Favre single-handedly is responsible for many of the loses. This is the best D Green Bay has had in years. And unlike Gun, I don't think he got to bring in a Surtain and Bell.

milkman
01-02-2006, 10:19 AM
Jim Bates greatly improved the Packers this year. Favre single-handedly is responsible for many of the loses. This is the best D Green Bay has had in years. And unlike Gun, I don't think he got to bring in a Surtain and Bell.

Hell, Ed Donatell has done a pretty good job in Atlanta after being used as scapegoat in GB.

Wade Phillips in SD.

If we look around, we could probably find others who have done more.

shaneo69
01-02-2006, 10:31 AM
This is hilarious. Yeah, GB's defense looked great this year. Bates is a genious.

And Atlanta's (Donatell's) defense just totally quit yesterday in a 44-11 loss.

BTW, Wade Phillips's defense finished last in Atlanta when he had the type of talent Gunther has now.

And Trgovac's defense gave up 200 yards rushing last week to a Cowboys team that got shut down by the Rams last night.

FringeNC
01-02-2006, 10:34 AM
This is hilarious. Yeah, GB's defense looked great this year. Bates is a genious.

And Atlanta's (Donatell's) defense just totally quit yesterday in a 44-11 loss.

BTW, Wade Phillips's defense finished last in Atlanta when he had the type of talent Gunther has now.

And Trgovac's defense gave up 200 yards rushing last week to a Cowboys team that got shut down by the Rams last night.

What about #31 ranked D and #28 ranked D in back-to-back years makes you think Gunther is any good? Seriously....Where's the evidence that Gunther is any better than Greg Robinson? You want us to take it as a matter of faith rather than numbers than Gun is a stud.

Chiefnj
01-02-2006, 10:38 AM
What about #31 ranked D and #28 ranked D in back-to-back years makes you think Gunther is any good? Seriously....Where's the evidence that Gunther is any better than Greg Robinson? You want us to take it as a matter of faith rather than numbers than Gun is a stud.

You want an impressive number?
2004 points per game 27.2
2005 points per game 20.3.

Gunther shaved off a TD while facing a much more difficult schedule.

shaneo69
01-02-2006, 10:39 AM
What about #31 ranked D and #28 ranked D in back-to-back years makes you think Gunther is any good? Seriously....Where's the evidence that Gunther is any better than Greg Robinson? You want us to take it as a matter of faith rather than numbers than Gun is a stud.

What evidence? I'm not saying Gun is a stud, but his defense has held good playoff offenses like NE, SD, and Cincy to 7, 7, and 3 points. GRob's defense never held a decent offense in check. NEVER.

Our best performances under GRob were home wins against hapless offenses like Buffalo and Chicago.

milkman
01-02-2006, 10:40 AM
This is hilarious. Yeah, GB's defense looked great this year. Bates is a genious.

And Atlanta's (Donatell's) defense just totally quit yesterday in a 44-11 loss.

BTW, Wade Phillips's defense finished last in Atlanta when he had the type of talent Gunther has now.

And Trgovac's defense gave up 200 yards rushing last week to a Cowboys team that got shut down by the Rams last night.

I realize that their not great.

I am just using these guys as measuring sticks against Gun's "greatness".

They have done as good as or better than Gun.

So how can Gun be "great"?

Spott
01-02-2006, 10:51 AM
As if we've had so much success in promoting one of our coordinators to head coaching positions. It didn't work with Frank Gansz or Gunther and I doubt it would work with Saunders.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 11:52 AM
This is hilarious. Yeah, GB's defense looked great this year. Bates is a genious.

And Atlanta's (Donatell's) defense just totally quit yesterday in a 44-11 loss.

BTW, Wade Phillips's defense finished last in Atlanta when he had the type of talent Gunther has now.

And Trgovac's defense gave up 200 yards rushing last week to a Cowboys team that got shut down by the Rams last night.
:bravo:

Frankie
01-02-2006, 11:54 AM
You want an impressive number?
2004 points per game 27.2
2005 points per game 20.3.

Gunther shaved off a TD while facing a much more difficult schedule.
Hey, why are you ruining this debate with facts?

Frankie
01-02-2006, 11:58 AM
As if we've had so much success in promoting one of our coordinators to head coaching positions. It didn't work with Frank Gansz or Gunther and I doubt it would work with Saunders.

Third time's the charm. Anyway those were different circumstances. Gansz and our kicker did a Shanahan on our HC. The whole thing was a sick situation. And Gun really didn't do all that bad. Most of you were indignant about CP firing him and not giving him a chance for a 3rd year.

The Bad Guy
01-02-2006, 12:02 PM
1- I do believe detoxing our players from the habits of GRob's stupid system required the first year. Gun brought things up to "zero" last year. Consider 2005 his first year of starting from zero.

2- You suddenly see other DCs' finished products this year and you assume they were zero last year. How do you know others haven't taken 2, 3, 0r 4 years to finally show off a great 'D?'

I'm sorry, but this is bullshit.

Detoxing? Where do you come up with this?

These guys are PAID professional athletes that didn't learn every football fundamental from Greg Robinson. They were coached before G-Rob and they were coached after him.

Ron Rivera took 2 years to build the Bears into an incredible defense. Jim Bates took 1 year to make the Packers respectable on defense - it's too bad their offense had everyone hurt.

I'm sick of the excuses already. They didn't get it done. He went out and handpicked the players he wanted and he still didn't get it done. Did Kendrell Bell have to be detoxed from Dick LeBeau?

Using Greg Robinson as a scapegoat 2 years after he was fired just proves the lengths some homers will go to defend Gunther.

Again, I like Gun. He's a great guy that I've talked to a few times. I want a new, fresh face for this defense. Not some re-tread, not someone who has been here before. Someone who can incorporate new ideas and FULLY use the talent on the D. As I said in a prior post, Gunther's stubborn ways about putting Surtain on a team's #1 receiver and not making adjustments when Terrell Owens was open all day shows me that he's not the right guy for the job.

But I suppose the Terrell Owens thing can be blamed on Greg Robinson too, right?

The Bad Guy
01-02-2006, 12:05 PM
You want an impressive number?
2004 points per game 27.2
2005 points per game 20.3.

Gunther shaved off a TD while facing a much more difficult schedule.

Hey that's great. But just think, if the defense could have found Terrell Owens or shutdown Terry Glenn how much more it would be.

The Bad Guy
01-02-2006, 12:06 PM
Third time's the charm. Anyway those were different circumstances. Gansz and our kicker did a Shanahan on our HC. The whole thing was a sick situation. And Gun really didn't do all that bad. Most of you were indignant about CP firing him and not giving him a chance for a 3rd year.

Because the guy was a nutjob in his first stint. He loved players because they had ripped sleeves and beards.

Frankie
01-02-2006, 12:46 PM
Because the guy was a nutjob in his first stint. He loved players because they had ripped sleeves and beards.
Gun or Gansz?

htismaqe
01-02-2006, 04:00 PM
Every situation is different. Al's journeymen were the right ingredient for his scheme, while Gun's additions were only the best available last year while they may not have been perfect, readymade fit. Who knows? Plus Gun was saddled with lower quality coaches under him. Al had no such problem. Also I said earlier, Gun is NOT the best 'D' man out there. Al, IMO, is damn near the best 'O' man. If I were forced to keep one at the expence of losing the other, I'd keep Al Saunders.

The excuse meter just hit 11.

milkman
01-02-2006, 04:02 PM
Gun or Gansz?

Gun.

Elvis with his beard, and Baker with the ripped off sleeves.

Chief Roundup
01-02-2006, 04:19 PM
Greg(with another g) Williams was responsible for turning around the Titans in one year, and the Bills D, as HC in 1 year.

Mike Trgovac did the same in Carolina.

Ron Rivera, with the Bears.

But the Genious that is Gun needs 3 years.

I think you are forgetting that those teams are always defense first teams. We are not or have not been for several years now. Not to mention those teams didn't have half of thier defensive draft picks not work out.

Sure-Oz
01-02-2006, 05:34 PM
I bet al won't get the job so i guess you'll be saving some $$$. I think he would've gotten it by now if he was going to get it.

Chief Roundup
01-02-2006, 05:55 PM
Keep in mind we have to interview a minority coach or we will be in violation with the NFL