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Zach
01-03-2006, 01:18 AM
Smith supports Rivera's quest to land dream job
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=13483

LAKE FOREST, Ill. - Having stood in Ron Rivera's shoes two years ago, Lovie Smith is vowing to do whatever he can to help his defensive coordinator land an NFL head-coaching job.
The St. Louis Rams have already sought permission to speak with Rivera about their vacant head-coaching position and other teams could follow.

Because the Bears have a first-round bye in the playoffs, NFL teams are permitted to interview Rivera once in Chicago this week. However, Rivera cannot be hired by another club or participate in a follow-up interview until after the Bears are finished with the playoffs.

Smith took advantage of that window in 2003 when he was defensive coordinator of the Rams, interviewing with the Falcons, Giants and Bears before ultimately being hired by Chicago after St. Louis lost its playoff opener to the Panthers.

"I was in the exact same situation as he's in right now and (Rams head coach) Mike Martz did a great job of helping me," Smith said. "One of his goals was to help me get a head football coaching job and he was able to do that. I'm going to do everything I possibly can to help Ron.

"Ron has done a great job for us here. He deserves his opportunity to run his own team. This is the ideal week to (interview with prospective employers). It's a bye week for us and I've told Ron whatever he needs to do, just let me know what I can do to help."

In addition to the Rams, the Chiefs, Lions, Packers, Saints, Texans and Vikings are all searching for new head coaches.

"If you were looking for a head football coach right now, wouldn't you want to contact him?" Smith said. "I think quite a few of the teams will contact him this week."

Rivera is in his second year as Bears defensive coordinator. He played nine seasons as a linebacker in Chicago from 1984-92, winning a Super Bowl ring with the famed 1985 team.

Rivera spent two seasons as a quality control coach with the Bears in 1997-98 before serving as Eagles linebackers coach for five years.

Having coordinated one of the league's top defenses under Smith, Rivera feels that he's ready to become an NFL head coach.

"The last couple years have been a great growing experience for me," Rivera said. "I'm in a situation right now where I think I've matured as a coach and most certainly would look forward to an opportunity.

"If something like that were to come up, I most certainly would look at it because that is my ultimate goal."

In Rivera's first season as coordinator in 2004, the Bears defense set a team record with six touchdowns, led the NFL in third-down efficiency and topped the NFC in red-zone percentage.

In 2005, the Bears allowed a league-low 202 points and finished second in overall defense.

"I think the résumé speaks for itself," Smith said. "As teams look at Ron they should look at what he was able to do with our defense this year. We have a lot of smart football people out there and I think they'll look at that."

Bio:
http://www.chicagobears.com/team/coachbio.jsp?id=33

KCChiefsFan88
01-03-2006, 01:21 AM
No prior experience as an NFL head coach will kill his chances with the Chiefs IMO

Zach
01-03-2006, 01:27 AM
I'm from the Chicago area, so I'm very fimiliar with Rivera. Has run two very physical and intense training camps with Lovie Smith and the players really seem to enjoy him.

Runs the Cover-2 scheme that has been talked about on this board, but played in the 46 defense under Buddy Ryan during the famed 1985 season. Coach linebackers under blitz-heavy Jim Johnson in Philly from 1999-2003.

He is young, only 43, but so was Jon Gruden (even though Gruden came out of Walsh's system). I feel his youth is his only downfall, but could also help as he would understand the plight of guys like Roaf and Shields.

Right now, with names such as Butch Davis flying around Rivera would be my top choice.

BTW- A lot of media outlets in Chicago feel Rivera might end up in Houston.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 01:30 AM
No prior experience as an NFL head coach will kill his chances with the Chiefs IMO

Great! Bobby Ross is qualified. Seriously though, that HC experience nonsense is overrated.

But, I thought it was NFL experience, not NFL HCing experience. Too which Rivera has plenty NFL experience as a player and a coach.

I've been on the Rivera bandwagon since about week 7 or 8. He isn't just my favorite as a choice. He is my only choice.

Better act fast too. The Rams have already seeked and gained permission to speak with him during the Bears bye week. Rivera will be a HC next year, better be for the Chiefs.

milkman
01-03-2006, 01:33 AM
Great! Bobby Ross is qualified. Seriously though, that HC experience nonsense is overrated.

But, I thought it was NFL experience, not NFL HCing experience. Too which Rivera has plenty NFL experience as a player and a coach.

I've been on the Rivera bandwagon since about week 7 or 8. He isn't just my favorite as a choice. He is my only choice.

Better act fast too. The Rams have already seeked and gained permission to speak with him during the Bears bye week. Rivera will be a HC next year, better be for the Chiefs.

So do you think that Carl could recover from the surgery to have nads attached to risk going with a young up and comer in time to hire Rivera before someone else does?

tk13
01-03-2006, 01:34 AM
I'm not sure how overrated being an experienced HC is. Every Super Bowl winning head coach since 1997 except for Brian Billick was in his 2nd head coaching stint somewhere.

And this year's two best teams, Seattle and Indy, both have coaches in their 2nd head coaching jobs.

kregger
01-03-2006, 01:38 AM
So, you're sayin' Butch Davis is the guy?

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 01:39 AM
So do you think that Carl could recover from the surgery to have nads attached to risk going with a young up and comer in time to hire Rivera before someone else does?

No. I have no faith in Carl. I've pretty much resigned myself that Rivera will be a HC with another team next year. Although I do still hold out alittle bit of hope, it is diminishing at a rapid rate.

tk13
01-03-2006, 01:39 AM
So, you're sayin' Butch Davis is the guy?
No, I'd rather have Herm Edwards.

milkman
01-03-2006, 01:41 AM
So, you're sayin' Butch Davis is the guy?

I love how "HC experience may not be overrated" translates to "Butch Davis is the man" to you.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 01:42 AM
I'm not sure how overrated being an experienced HC is. Every Super Bowl winning head coach since 1997 except for Brian Billick was in his 2nd head coaching stint somewhere.

And this year's two best teams, Seattle and Indy, both have coaches in their 2nd head coaching jobs.

I'll tell you what. You give me a list of HC's that had a second stint with another team and had success and I'll give you a list of coaches that had a second stint with another team that failed. Whose list you think will be longer? Here's the master list we will work from.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/index.htm

You first.

I understand you want Herman Edwards, but you don't have to look so desperate about it.

Zach
01-03-2006, 01:46 AM
Not to discredit tk's head coaching point, but I think we all have to keep in mind our options. Excluding Herm Edwards from the discussion, guys who are out there with previous NFL HC experience are Gregg Williams, Butch Davis, and Jim Fassle. A lot of people out there think Williams won't leave Washington, Fassle is an offensive coach, and Butch Davis....is well...Butch Davis.

In the Playoffs this year we have Marvin Lewis, Jack Del Rio, Lovie Smith, and John Foxx. All coaches who are not only defensive minded, but also head coaches for the first time. There have also been a lot of great coaches who coached well without previous HC experience including Dungy in Tampa, Gruden in Oakland, Holmgren in GB, and currently Jim Mora Jr. in Atlanta.

tk13
01-03-2006, 01:50 AM
I never said there weren't coaches who had a 2nd stint and failed. Simply that the ones who had the most success in recent years were ones who had a 2nd job and were able to learn from the 1st to become a better coach.... you can spin that all you want, 7 of the last 8 Super Bowls were won by coaches on their 2nd coaching job. Not their first coaching job. That doesn't mean that somebody like Herm would come here and win 3 Super Bowls, or that he's the guy for the job, just that based on recent history maybe we should look for a guy looking for his 2nd job that learned a thing or two the first time around. That could be Gregg Williams, that could even be Butch Davis for all I know... but my point was about HC'ing experience, not Herm Edwards.

Ultra Peanut
01-03-2006, 01:56 AM
And this year's two best teams, Seattle and Indy, both have coaches in their 2nd head coaching jobs.True, but Holmgren was hired away from Green Bay, rather than being fired, and Dungy may have done considerably better in Tampa if he'd had, say, Manning, Harrison, and Edge at his disposal.

You give me a list of HC's that had a second stint with another team and had success and I'll give you a list of coaches that had a second stint with another team that failed.To be fair, the majority of coaches are "failures."

tk13
01-03-2006, 01:59 AM
Not to discredit tk's head coaching point, but I think we all have to keep in mind our options. Excluding Herm Edwards from the discussion, guys who are out there with previous NFL HC experience are Gregg Williams, Butch Davis, and Jim Fassle. A lot of people out there think Williams won't leave Washington, Fassle is an offensive coach, and Butch Davis....is well...Butch Davis.

In the Playoffs this year we have Marvin Lewis, Jack Del Rio, Lovie Smith, and John Foxx. All coaches who are not only defensive minded, but also head coaches for the first time. There have also been a lot of great coaches who coached well without previous HC experience including Dungy in Tampa, Gruden in Oakland, Holmgren in GB, and currently Jim Mora Jr. in Atlanta.
I can't argue with that. My personal preference would be to hire an experience HC or a top notch coordinator.

I'm not sure if Ron Rivera is that guy or not though. That's for debate. He's certainly got a great defense at his disposal.

Although I would say I think it's totally unfair that he'd be considered over someone like Al Saunders. I don't understand that at all to be honest. Rivera basically has had one year of calling a great defense. Being a great playcaller with great talent does not equal = great head coach. Gunther Cunningham did that, and blew up as a head coach. Rivera has very little coaching experience, and has basically worked two years under Lovie Smith, and deserves credit for the final product, but Dick Jauron built the core of that defense. Being a HC is much more of an organizational and relationship based job then just walking out there and calling a great game every week.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 02:01 AM
I never said there weren't coaches who had a 2nd stint and failed. Simply that the ones who had the most success in recent years were ones who had a 2nd job and were able to learn from the 1st to become a better coach.... you can spin that all you want, 7 of the last 8 Super Bowls were won by coaches on their 2nd coaching job. Not their first coaching job. That doesn't mean that somebody like Herm would come here and win 3 Super Bowls, or that he's the guy for the job, just that based on recent history maybe we should look for a guy looking for his 2nd job that learned a thing or two the first time around. That could be Gregg Williams, that could even be Butch Davis for all I know... but my point was about HC'ing experience, not Herm Edwards.

Yada, yada, yada... and 10 HC's before that won with thier first team. That 7 of 8 thing you are using is quite misleading tk, isn't it? Why don't you just say that out of the last 8SB's, 5 were won by 2 coaches?

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 02:02 AM
To be fair, the majority of coaches are "failures."

shhhh

damn yous

tk13
01-03-2006, 02:06 AM
Yada, yada, yada... and 10 HC's before that won with thier first team. That 7 of 8 thing you are using is quite misleading tk, isn't it? Why don't you just say that out of the last 8SB's, 5 were won by 2 coaches?
Most of the 10 HC's before that coached before the era of free agency. You don't build a team and hold them together the same way the 80's Niners and 90's Cowboys were built anymore...

And you are absolutely right, 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl's were won by 2 coaches. Does that somehow diminish that accomplishment? I don't quite understand your point there. Heck, 3 of the last 4 were won by the same guy... I figured those type of results were considered pretty good.

Ultra Peanut
01-03-2006, 02:09 AM
shhhh

damn yousI do agree with you, though, at least with this particular bunch of retreads.

Someone like Williams, Edwards, or Fisher wouldn't make me want to hurt anyone, or anything, but someone like Ron Rivera or Tim Lewis would be infinitely more inspiring as a hire.

And you are absolutely right, 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl's were won by 2 coaches. Does that somehow diminish that accomplishment?
It doesn't diminish their accomplishments, but it does skew things regarding the rest of the bunch a little. It's like, if Gonzaga were to win the NCAA title three of the next four years; would you say the rest of the WCC schools were powerhouses based on the Zags' performance?

Zach
01-03-2006, 02:10 AM
Great point a couple post earlier about being a HC is more than going out and calling a great game. Couldn't agree more. Besides a select few coaches in the league, most of them just listen to the calls through the head set and give opinions on what they feel is right. The cordinators are the ones who break down the film and structure game plans.

My only gripe with Rivera is his 'lack' of coaching experience, which is then refuted by examples of Mora Jr., Gruden, and so forth.

I would just hate to miss out on this cat, if he is another one of those young gifted coaches who we see in the playoffs down the road.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 02:11 AM
Most of the 10 HC's before that coached before the era of free agency. You don't build a team and hold them together the same way the 80's Niners and 90's Cowboys were built anymore...

And you are absolutely right, 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl's were won by 2 coaches. Does that somehow diminish that accomplishment? I don't quite understand your point there. Heck, 3 of the last 4 were won by the same guy... I figured those type of results were considered pretty good.

There is no point in what I said. Just like their is no point in what you said with 7 of the last 8. It means absolutely jack shit. Thanks for proving my point.

tk13
01-03-2006, 02:16 AM
There is no point in what I said. Just like their is no point in what you said with 7 of the last 8. It means absolutely jack shit. Thanks for proving my point.
So basically, you have no argument, so you're going to act tough and pretend mine's pointless. Gotcha.

Ultra Peanut
01-03-2006, 02:17 AM
So basically, you have no argument, so you're going to act tough and pretend mine's pointless. Gotcha.Dick Van Patten taught me how to play Texas Hold-'Em.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 02:32 AM
So basically, you have no argument, so you're going to act tough and pretend mine's pointless. Gotcha.

Yours is pointless. I don't care who coached the last 8 winning SB teams and the road they took to get there. And I doubt there is anyone who really does care. It's over, it's the past. There is no way you can expect a guy to come in and have the same results of those coaches. None. You'd be crazy if you thought that.. You'd be better to not apply those other coaches resumes to Herman Edwards. It might serve you better.

You are just hoping that Herman can get you there because it would be his second stint. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. You have nothing to back it up otherwise.

5yrs ago it was "we need a coach that has been to the SB". Presently it is "we need a coach on his second stint" because the last 7 of 8 SB's have been won by coaches on their second stint. Wake me in another 5yrs years with your next reason.

tk13
01-03-2006, 02:47 AM
Yes, that is the sole reason I like Herm Edwards. ROFL

I like Herm because he has a great defensive pedigree, usually has very disciplined, penalty-free football teams, and his players play hard and do not quit on him. I do not think Herm is the best coach in the NFL. I do, however, think he is probably my favorite choice of the coaches available at the moment. Al Saunders would probably be a close 2nd. I really won't be bitter whoever we hire though, just let'er ride and see how it goes. I don't root for head coaches, I root for the Chiefs.

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 05:40 AM
Yes, that is the sole reason I like Herm Edwards. ROFL

I like Herm because he has a great defensive pedigree, usually has very disciplined, penalty-free football teams, and his players play hard and do not quit on him. I do not think Herm is the best coach in the NFL. I do, however, think he is probably my favorite choice of the coaches available at the moment. Al Saunders would probably be a close 2nd. I really won't be bitter whoever we hire though, just let'er ride and see how it goes. I don't root for head coaches, I root for the Chiefs.

I didn't say that is the sole reason you like Herman. Actually, I don't think I ever said you like him. Put words in peoples mouth much?

Rivera comes from a great defensive pedigree himself. Buddy Ryan, Jim Johnson pedigree. His defense is as disciplined as you can get. They are penalty free and his players play hard and don't quit on him as well. The difference is he won't cost us draft picks, players and cash to retain his services.

As many holes there are on the Chiefs and questions regarding the future of some players on this team, draft picks and players are the last thing the Chiefs need to give up.

Braincase
01-03-2006, 06:50 AM
...As many holes there are on the Chiefs and questions regarding the future of some players on this team, draft picks and players are the last thing the Chiefs need to give up.

Wasn't it right after we gave picks to STL that the NFL said that draft picks can't be traded when it comes to coaches?

Saggysack
01-03-2006, 06:57 AM
Wasn't it right after we gave picks to STL that the NFL said that draft picks can't be traded when it comes to coaches?

That's what I thought too. But, as of yesterday...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=132730
League spokesman Greg Aiello told us on Monday that draft picks can be used to acquire a head coach or a high-ranking club executive (such as G.M. or the equivalent). Draft choices cannot be used, per Aiello, to acquire coordinators, position coaches, or executives below the level of president or G.M.

jspchief
01-03-2006, 07:03 AM
Lovie Smith is a class act for letting Rivera entertain offers.

Lurch
01-03-2006, 09:05 AM
Lovie Smith is a class act for letting Rivera entertain offers.

He remembers his days in St. Louis.

ChiTown
01-03-2006, 09:11 AM
Ron Rivera would be my choice. I got to meet him, along with several other Bears players/coaches at a charity event in Chicago. The guy is pure class.

Back in 1998 (at this event), I spoke with an NFL Exec that told me that Rivera (who was an asst with Bears at that time) would be a HC in the NFL within 10 years. I thought he was friggen crazy at the time, but not anymore................