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htismaqe
01-03-2006, 05:28 PM
I tuned in just in time to hear them ask him about playing DE in a 3-4.

I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."

nychief
01-03-2006, 05:42 PM
I am sure they consult with JA about the coaching status....

Gunny is lucky to be coordinator.

FAX
01-03-2006, 05:42 PM
My sources tell me that JA doesn't have the first clue as to Gun's status with the team.

FAX

FringeNC
01-03-2006, 05:42 PM
I tuned in just in time to hear them ask him about playing DE in a 3-4.

I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."

That's what I have been afraid of. It's going to be Al/Gun or Edwards/Gun, with Gun being forced either one of them.

Mecca
01-03-2006, 05:43 PM
He doesn't even know, that's up to whoever the new head coach is. I guess as a player it's better to say that than not rip someone who may be back with your team.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 05:43 PM
I tuned in just in time to hear them ask him about playing DE in a 3-4.

I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."

FAX
01-03-2006, 05:44 PM
My sources are having deja vu.

FAX

HemiEd
01-03-2006, 05:45 PM
I tuned in just in time to hear them ask him about playing DE in a 3-4.

I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."
:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 05:45 PM
Oh dear god.

Well, at least they won't have to learn a new scheme.

BigRedChief
01-03-2006, 05:46 PM
he sounded like there was no way he would play 3-4.

4th and Long
01-03-2006, 05:46 PM
My sources are having deja vu.

FAX
No limerick?

4th The Disappointed

FAX
01-03-2006, 05:53 PM
No limerick?

4th The Disappointed

My confounded sources can think of nothing that rhymes with rumor-mongering, Mr. 4th and Long.

Other sources, however, are suggesting that additional replacement sources may soon be available.

FAX

4th and Long
01-03-2006, 05:56 PM
My confounded sources can think of nothing that rhymes with rumor-mongering, Mr. 4th and Long.

Other sources, however, are suggesting that additional replacement sources may soon be available.

FAX
Well now, looks like someone has lost a step. Such a shame, really.

4th The Even More Disappointed Than He Was Before

nascher
01-03-2006, 05:58 PM
yes but Jared Allen isn't the one who decides if GC stays.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 05:58 PM
Herman Edwards will probably move Allen to left end so he can bring in John Abraham to play right end.

Bowser
01-03-2006, 06:00 PM
Herman Edwards will probably move Allen to left end so he can bring in John Abraham to play right end.

This...is a fantastic idea.

Taco John
01-03-2006, 06:01 PM
Should be an interesting offseason.

FringeNC
01-03-2006, 06:01 PM
Trading draft picks for Edwards, retaining Gun...

Can it get any worse? To me, that is the nightmare scenario.

Can't we just go the obvious route -- hire Saunders and get a new DC?

Taco John
01-03-2006, 06:02 PM
Didn't the NFL make it illegal to trade draft picks for coaches? I thought they did, though I'm against that.

dtebbe
01-03-2006, 06:05 PM
Trading draft picks for Edwards, retaining Gun...

Can it get any worse? To me, that is the nightmare scenario.

Can't we just go the obvious route -- hire Saunders and get a new DC?

Saunders = Mike Martz as HC?

Do we really want that?

I'd take Stoops in a heartbeat over Saunders. Too cute, too soft.

DT

Frankie
01-03-2006, 06:06 PM
Hey htismaqe,

You are one of the mods, aren't you? merge your duplicate threads into one. We are confused enough.

Frankie
01-03-2006, 06:17 PM
Hey htismaqe,

You are one of the mods, aren't you? merge your duplicate threads into one. We are confused enough.

Fruit Ninja
01-03-2006, 06:21 PM
Trading draft picks for Edwards, retaining Gun...

Can it get any worse? To me, that is the nightmare scenario.

Can't we just go the obvious route -- hire Saunders and get a new DC?
Can get alot worse, we could end up with Martz.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:22 PM
I tuned in just in time to hear them ask him about playing DE in a 3-4.

I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."


WTF are you so negative?

You didn't want Vermiel, and are happy that he's gone.

But, Herm sucks because Gunther might stay around?

Did you ever consider that Gun will probably get to select his own assistants now? That's something he hasn't had in last 2 years.

As long as Peter Guinta is out of a job, I'm happy.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 06:23 PM
Herman Edwards will probably move Allen to left end so he can bring in John Abraham to play right end.

That's actually a pretty dumb idea.

Allen and Abraham are the same type of player. We don't need two. Plus Allen doesn't have the injury issues or questionable desire.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:23 PM
Maybe we can be 22nd on defense next year.

And get beat when a team with a real offense plays us in the playoffs! Yippee!

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:24 PM
That's actually a pretty dumb idea.

Allen and Abraham are the same type of player. We don't need two. Plus Allen doesn't have the injury issues or questionable desire.

It's incredibly dumb. But you never know. Herm Edwards hired Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 06:24 PM
WTF are you so negative?

You didn't want Vermiel, and are happy that he's gone.

But, Herm sucks because Gunther might stay around?

Did you ever consider that Gun will probably get to select his own assistants now? That's something he hasn't had in last 2 years.

As long as Peter Guinta is out of a job, I'm happy.

Um, maybe you should learn to read.

I didn't say ONE GODDAMN WORD about Herman Edwards.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Maybe we can be 22nd on defense next year.

And get beat when a team with a real offense plays us in the playoffs! Yippee!


All that Herm has done is take the Jets to the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

Boy, I sure don't want that...... :rolleyes:

4th and Long
01-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Um, maybe you should learn to read.

I didn't say ONE GODDAMN WORD about Herman Edwards.
ROFL Tisk, Tisk. Phil was never this hostile. ROFL

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Um, maybe you should learn to read.

I didn't say ONE GODDAMN WORD about Herman Edwards.


Maybe YOU should read the rest of my post.

I also referenced GUNTHER getting to pick his own staff.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:26 PM
All that Herm has done is take the Jets to the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

Boy, I sure don't want that...... :rolleyes:

Remember the season opener?

The Jets looked like a college team.

Herman Edwards rules!

Brock
01-03-2006, 06:27 PM
Jared's right. I don't know why anyone would be surprised.

Gunther is the DC of this team no matter who the next HC is.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:27 PM
Remember the season opener?

The Jets looked like a college team.

Herman Edwards rules!


Because Pennington absolutely f#cked him in the ass.

Remember his 4 fumbles and him missing a wide open Coles 3-4 times?

That sure was Herm's fault.

Tribal Warfare
01-03-2006, 06:29 PM
But, Herm sucks because Gunther might stay around?



Have seen the defense play on the road? Dude, a team full of blind midgets with peglegs and prosthetic arms could cover, and tackle better than the 2005 KC defense.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:30 PM
Because Pennington absolutely f#cked him in the ass.

Remember his 4 fumbles and him missing a wide open Coles 3-4 times?

That sure was Herm's fault.

The point is the Jets were obviously woefully underprepared for that game.

That's on Germ Edwards.

Watch one of his press conferences. He has zero tact and flies off the handle all the time. He's a freak.

He won't endear himself to the fanbase, either. At least Dick managed to do that.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:32 PM
The point is the Jets were obviously woefully underprepared for that game.

That's on Germ Edwards.


To me, the QB failing to hold on to the ball or make plays doesn't equal "underprepared", but whatever.....

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:33 PM
Have seen the defense play on the road? Dude, a team full of blind midgets with peglegs and prosthetic arms could cover, and tackle better than the 2005 KC defense.


Can't argue with that.

I'm just willing to see if things get better if Gun actually gets to PICK his assistant coaches.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:34 PM
To me, the QB failing to hold on to the ball or make plays doesn't equal "underprepared", but whatever.....

Yeah like that was the only thing that went wrong in that game.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Yeah like that was the only thing that went wrong in that game.

Not saying that it was the only thing that went wrong, but Pennington's play (or lack thereof) was the most significant.

We obviously are looking at this differently, so let's just leave it at that.

Mecca
01-03-2006, 06:37 PM
That's actually a pretty dumb idea.

Allen and Abraham are the same type of player. We don't need two. Plus Allen doesn't have the injury issues or questionable desire.

A healthy John Abraham is a potential top 5 de. Allen is a compliment de who would be even better with a monster de opposite him.

Messier
01-03-2006, 06:38 PM
All the assistant coaches are without a contract except for Solari (He was here before Vermeil). The new coach will not retain the staff. Even Saunders would have an overhaul. Sure he could rehire some and he might but no one is here for sure (Except Solari).

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 06:39 PM
Maybe YOU should read the rest of my post.

I also referenced GUNTHER getting to pick his own staff.

You asked the following question:

But, Herm sucks because Gunther might stay around?

The rest of you post is irrelevant because I didn't say a word about Herm.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 06:40 PM
All the assistant coaches are without a contract except for Solari (He was here before Vermeil). The new coach will not retain the staff. Even Saunders would have an overhaul. Sure he could rehire some and he might but no one is here for sure (Except Solari).

Solari is not under contract per Carl Peterson

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 06:40 PM
A healthy John Abraham is a potential top 5 de. Allen is a compliment de who would be even better with a monster de opposite him.

And we'd have two undersized pass rush specialists, one on each side.

No thanks, we have much bigger needs.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 06:41 PM
Maybe YOU should read the rest of my post.

I also referenced GUNTHER getting to pick his own staff.

The last time Gunther was allowed to pick his own staff, we got Jimmy Raye and Kurt Schottenheimer.

I'll pass.

morphius
01-03-2006, 06:43 PM
Anyone having flashback of Gun first hire? Carl is looking for a coach that will keep everyone around...

milkman
01-03-2006, 06:43 PM
A healthy John Abraham is a potential top 5 de. Allen is a compliment de who would be even better with a monster de opposite him.

But the fact that both Abraham and Allen are both in the 260 lb range would make them a real liability in run defense if they were on the field at the same time.

BigRedChief
01-03-2006, 06:44 PM
Herm Edwards hired Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett.

Thats a damn big negative right there.:hmmm:

Messier
01-03-2006, 06:47 PM
Solari is not under contract per Carl Peterson

Oops, you're right. He's still the only coach that is a hold over from the Cunningham era.

Mecca
01-03-2006, 06:48 PM
The opportunity to get a real number 1 DE in the NFL doesn't come along often. If John Abraham wants to come to this team you take that very seriously. You guys can all be big fans of Allen because he's one of our better players but he isn't in the same talent class as a John Abraham. Our pass rush is a severe weakness we are not fine in that area.

The majority of run plays in the NFL occur up the middle, not off tackle. Even if a team is going to run off tackle on you, aslong as your LB's can play the run it shouldn't be a big time issue. For example neither the Colts or Bucs or sporting big ends. The Bucs especially stick out. considering that is a top notch NFL unit.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:50 PM
You asked the following question:

But, Herm sucks because Gunther might stay around?

The rest of you post is irrelevant because I didn't say a word about Herm.


That's cool.

From now on, I'll simply choose which portions of your posts are significant and respond only to that part.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 06:52 PM
The last time Gunther was allowed to pick his own staff, we got Jimmy Raye and Kurt Schottenheimer.

I'll pass.

Wait a minute, I didn't think that was a "relevant" part of my post.

Why are you responding?

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 07:12 PM
That's cool.

From now on, I'll simply choose which portions of your posts are significant and respond only to that part.

I would expect as much if I were to ask you ridiculous questions that jump to conclusions that were never mentioned...

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 07:12 PM
Wait a minute, I didn't think that was a "relevant" part of my post.

Why are you responding?

I was trying to be courteous.

Valiant
01-03-2006, 07:16 PM
The question should have been.. "JA have you ever heard of containment and rapping up a runner?"

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 07:17 PM
I was trying to be courteous.


I see.

Your intial response seemed pretty hostile, but i suppose that you were trying to be courteous there as well.

I'll admit that I jumped to the conclusion about Herm Edwards. However, the second portion of my post DID reference your initial post and made an attempt to create some debate.

You deemed it "irrelevant" due to my initial oversight, but then responded 10 minutes later.

That's weak. Other than that, it's been great talking to you.

Have a great evening......

shaneo69
01-03-2006, 07:17 PM
I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

stevieray
01-03-2006, 07:18 PM
From now on, I'll simply choose which portions of your posts are significant and respond only to that part.

Napoleon complex.

beer bacon
01-03-2006, 07:21 PM
Maybe we can be 22nd on defense next year.

And get beat when a team with a real offense plays us in the playoffs! Yippee!

We were 16th in scoring, and we played good at home. We need to find a way to not suck on the road.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 07:21 PM
Napoleon complex.


Ya think?

:)

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 07:48 PM
I see.

Your intial response seemed pretty hostile, but i suppose that you were trying to be courteous there as well.

I'll admit that I jumped to the conclusion about Herm Edwards. However, the second portion of my post DID reference your initial post and made an attempt to create some debate.

You deemed it "irrelevant" due to my initial oversight, but then responded 10 minutes later.

That's weak. Other than that, it's been great talking to you.

Have a great evening......

My initial response was hostile because you attacked me for something that I didn't even remotely come close to saying.

I repsonded 10 minutes later, because I rethought my decision to respond with hostility and decided to answer your question instead.

That's not weak. It's called consideration.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 07:48 PM
Napoleon complex.

Hardly. Just sick of dealing with whiney assholes.

Namely you.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 07:54 PM
Hardly. Just sick of dealing with whiney assholes.

Namely you.

If you don't like the discussion, LEAVE.

You can dish it out, but can't take it.

why don't you just ban me?

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 07:55 PM
We were 16th in scoring, and we played good at home. We need to find a way to not suck on the road.

Yup. Dumping Gunther is step one.

dj56dt58
01-03-2006, 08:03 PM
their current scheme DOES consist of a 3-4 at times when Fox or Griffen are healthy. When they went down they stopped using it..

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 08:04 PM
If you don't like the discussion, LEAVE.

You can dish it out, but can't take it.

why don't you just ban me?

It's much more telling to let you stay and continue to make an ass of yourself in front of the entire board.

You've done nothing but bash other peoples' opinions for weeks. You haven't offered an opinion of your own for even longer.

You've taken to attacking people that like your presence and respect you.

I don't need to TAKe anything from you, because I never dished it out in the first place. All I did was criticize the Chiefs, and you can't handle that for some reason.

In short, you've become bitter and pathetic. Enjoy it.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 08:16 PM
It's much more telling to let you stay and continue to make an ass of yourself in front of the entire board.

You've done nothing but bash other peoples' opinions for weeks. You haven't offered an opinion of your own for even longer.

You've taken to attacking people that like your presence and respect you.

I don't need to TAKe anything from you, because I never dished it out in the first place. All I did was criticize the Chiefs, and you can't handle that for some reason.

In short, you've become bitter and pathetic. Enjoy it.

offer opinions? please, just because I don't pile on the bitchfest doesn't mean there aren't things I'd like to see change. I just don't need to say it a thousand times like you. You enjoy doing that, telling people that don't bitch are content. It's BS. And you know it.


You seem to think have free reign to attack anyone, but can't deal with it when someone calls you on it. This thread proves it. Bash opinions? Obviously, only you have that right.

If anyone is bitter and pathetic, it's you and your approcah to this team.

It appears spite drives you to believe that your desire for success outweighs that of the organization.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 08:20 PM
My initial response was hostile because you attacked me for something that I didn't even remotely come close to saying.

I repsonded 10 minutes later, because I rethought my decision to respond with hostility and decided to answer your question instead.

That's not weak. It's called consideration.

I got it.

I challenged you (although somewhat incorrectly) and you considered yourself attacked.

I think you might need to develop some thicker skin, especialy if you're going to stay as a Mod. Don't worry, I simply won't engage you in conversation the future.

BTW, trashing a guy like FDE isn't going to net you any friends around here. I don't know if you'll consider that as me "attacking you" again, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

SLAG
01-03-2006, 08:22 PM
Whoah Whoah... This isnt where i parked my car

stevieray
01-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I challenged you (although somewhat incorrectly) and you considered yourself attacked.



oh the irony

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 08:25 PM
oh the irony


Yep.

Pot....Kettle.

Kettle....Pot.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 08:48 PM
I got it.

I challenged you (although somewhat incorrectly) and you considered yourself attacked.

I think you might need to develop some thicker skin, especialy if you're going to stay as a Mod. Don't worry, I simply won't engage you in conversation the future.

BTW, trashing a guy like FDE isn't going to net you any friends around here. I don't know if you'll consider that as me "attacking you" again, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

So you admit that what you said is incorrect, and continue to blame ME because I responded the way I did? That tells me alot about you. Thanks.

There's MANY people here that are tired of Stevie's antics. I've CONTINUOUSLY stuck up for him, and he CONTINUOUSLY attacks me.

You don't know the first thing about what's going on here.

htismaqe
01-03-2006, 08:49 PM
offer opinions? please, just because I don't pile on the bitchfest doesn't mean there aren't things I'd like to see change. I just don't need to say it a thousand times like you. You enjoy doing that, telling people that don't bitch are content. It's BS. And you know it.

You seem to think have free reign to attack anyone, but can't deal with it when someone calls you on it. This thread proves it. Bash opinions? Obviously, only you have that right.

If anyone is bitter and pathetic, it's you and your approcah to this team.

It appears spite drives you to believe that your desire for success outweighs that of the organization.

ROFL

You just don't get it.

tomahawk kid
01-03-2006, 08:52 PM
So you admit that what you said is incorrect, and continue to blame ME because I responded the way I did? That tells me alot about you. Thanks.

There's MANY people here that are tired of Stevie's antics. I've CONTINUOUSLY stuck up for him, and he CONTINUOUSLY attacks me.

You don't know the first thing about what's going on here.

Whatever gets you through the night, man.

Later.

brent102fire
01-03-2006, 10:12 PM
I hope Gunther stays. His defense is making strides, I think they have definately turned the corner. All they need is a few DL's and more experience and they're good to go.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 10:23 PM
His defense is making strides

Really?

Name one game in which we played good defense on the road against a good football team.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 10:24 PM
Really?

Name one game in which we played good defense on the road against a good football team.

Miami

BigRedChief
01-03-2006, 10:28 PM
Whoah Whoah... This isnt where i parked my car

I watched Eurotrip again over Christmas vacation. That movies rocks. One of the funniest movies in recent memory.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 10:34 PM
Miami

You must be joking. ROFL

Logical
01-03-2006, 10:49 PM
offer opinions? please, just because I don't pile on the bitchfest doesn't mean there aren't things I'd like to see change. I just don't need to say it a thousand times like you. You enjoy doing that, telling people that don't bitch are content. It's BS. And you know it.


You seem to think have free reign to attack anyone, but can't deal with it when someone calls you on it. This thread proves it. Bash opinions? Obviously, only you have that right.

If anyone is bitter and pathetic, it's you and your approcah to this team.

It appears spite drives you to believe that your desire for success outweighs that of the organization.I don't know Stevie, Parker and I go back and forth all the time and keep it civil. I admit I have pretty thick skin but I just have not seen Parker actually attacking me. I am having a hard time following some of your comments lately, seems you are trying to use the Brock approach but I often don't get the quips. Probably me just being dense.

ChiTown
01-03-2006, 10:51 PM
Miami

:spock:

Miami? Really?

jjchieffan
01-03-2006, 10:57 PM
Really?

Name one game in which we played good defense on the road against a good football team.

He didnt say our defense has arrived, he said they are making strides. Before Gunther, we didnt play good defense on the road or at home. The defense also allowed 7 points less per game this year than last. If that isn't a stride, then I dont know what is.

elvomito
01-03-2006, 11:10 PM
http://www.injersey.com/images/news/0501/11spt2.jpg

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:10 PM
Before Gunther, we didnt play good defense on the road or at home.

Wrong. Robinson had several successful home games in 2003. In fact, his defense stopped a playoff team on the road, too.

jjchieffan
01-03-2006, 11:17 PM
Wrong. Robinson had several successful home games in 2003. In fact, his defense stopped a playoff team on the road, too.

So you are comparing GRobs defense after 3 years to Gunthers in just 2? If Gunthers defense isnt top 10 next year, I will agree with you, but until then, it is a work in progress that is improving. I notice you have nothing to say about the defense shaving off 7 points a game. What did you expect them to shave off in one year, 20?

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:25 PM
So you are comparing GRobs defense after 3 years to Gunthers in just 2? If Gunthers defense isnt top 10 next year, I will agree with you, but until then, it is a work in progress that is improving. I notice you have nothing to say about the defense shaving off 7 points a game. What did you expect them to shave off in one year, 20?

Gunther has more talent on his defense than Robinson EVER had.

It's a fair comparison. In fact, Robinson is getting the short end of the stick.

I can't believe people are still making excuses for Gunther.

jjchieffan
01-03-2006, 11:29 PM
Gunther has more talent on his defense than Robinson EVER had.

It's a fair comparison. In fact, Robinson is getting the short end of the stick.

I can't believe people are still making excuses for Gunther.

And I can't believe people are still refusing to acknowledge the improvement in the defense.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:32 PM
And I can't believe people are still refusing to acknowledge the improvement in the defense.

It's not really improved. Robinson's 2003 D looked just as good against shitty teams.

We still suck against good teams on the road.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 11:35 PM
:spock:

Miami? Really?

How many games has Miami won since they played us?

The defense finished 16 in pts allowed.

why is it when players play well, they get the accolades, but when they don't, it's the coaches fault?

stevieray
01-03-2006, 11:37 PM
It's not really improved. Robinson's 2003 D looked just as good against shitty teams.

We still suck against good teams on the road.

I'll believe that when we don't have seven out of eight back to back road trips in two years.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:37 PM
I'll believe that when we don't have seven out of eight back to back road trips in two years.

Well I agree with you there. I'm tired of that shit.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 11:39 PM
Gunther has more talent on his defense than Robinson EVER had.

It's a fair comparison. In fact, Robinson is getting the short end of the stick.

I can't believe people are still making excuses for Gunther.

I can't believe you give the talent a free pass. They are either talented or they aren't.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:43 PM
I can't believe you give the talent a free pass. They are either talented or they aren't.

They are. When they play shitty offenses, they do fine.

Then they get matched up against even talent and the scheme is exploited.

stevieray
01-03-2006, 11:52 PM
They are. When they play shitty offenses, they do fine.

Then they get matched up against even talent and the scheme is exploited.

Like Denver? Or Washington? Or New England? Or Cincy? or San Diego?

I started watching the Giants game again. thirteen seconds.... flag.... 75 seconds... flag....keeping a STALLED drive alive. I think the refs took them out of the game mentally, because they were in postion to make the plays and opened up strong against their running game... IIRC,weren't there two personal fouls called also?

Buffalo held to fourteen points at home. That game is on the offense.

You have to play through injuries, but losing starters at each level did hurt. There is no doubt we woud've played better with Battle, Fox and Sims.

Even though we lost, most of those games came down to a play here or two.

jjchieffan
01-03-2006, 11:52 PM
So, gochiefs, what did Gunther do to you anyways. Did he screw your mom, your sister, both? I sure hope Gunther is here next year and makes you eat all your words when he turns out a top 10 defense.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:56 PM
Like Denver?

Why even use that as an example? We gave up over 400 yards.


Or Washington?


Again, a shitload of yards. Won by the virtue of lucky turnovers.


Or New England?


They were so banged up. There's no way you can say the talent was even that day.


Or Cincy?


Cincy's backups anyway.


or San Diego?


The one game I was impressed with. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

You're giving Gunther a pass. Did you give Robinson a pass in 2003? Same difference.

Count Zarth
01-03-2006, 11:57 PM
So, gochiefs, what did Gunther do to you anyways. Did he screw your mom, your sister, both? I sure hope Gunther is here next year and makes you eat all your words when he turns out a top 10 defense.

I hope Gunther does just that. And I'll come crying back begging for forgiveness.

stevieray
01-04-2006, 12:05 AM
Why even use that as an example? We gave up over 400 yards.

and stopped them on fourth down to seal the game. how many games has Denver eeeked out this year?



Again, a shitload of yards. Won by the virtue of lucky turnovers.


Lucky turnovers? Were philly's TO's lucky too?


They were so banged up. There's no way you can say the talent was even that day.

We were banged up... playing agianst the SB champs and SB MVP.



Cincy's backups anyway.

Back ups? That's a copout. QB who has won a SB. We shut down Rudy and Chad Johnson.



The one game I was impressed with. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

I see, they were just lucky....

You're giving Gunther a pass. Did you give Robinson a pass in 2003? Same difference.

I'm not giving Gunther anything.

I guarantee this defense would've played better against Indy than GR's did.

Count Zarth
01-04-2006, 12:07 AM
Jon Kitna won a Super Bowl?

I must have missed that.

stevieray
01-04-2006, 12:08 AM
Jon Kitna won a Super Bowl?

I must have missed that.

my bad, I was thinking of Dilfer.

tk13
01-04-2006, 12:13 AM
I think our defense was better at the end here than it's ever been under Vermeil. Gun just got outcoached. If you lined up and played right at us, we beat you down pretty good. But at the end of the year these good offensive coaches like Shanahan were out there throwing screens and trick plays at us and burning us up. I mean that's pretty much the DEN/DAL/NYG games in a nutshell... screens, reverses, draws, flea flickers, counter plays, etc, etc, ate us alive.

I think we're going to have to get more talent if we're going to get to the next step like this, unless Gunther changes some things. This whole playing left side/right side thing will get us killed. We play very straight up basic defense, and I guess Gun has a plan in mind, I don't know... but teams can just spread us out and we'll put OLB's on the slot receivers, we don't adjust our CB's. You can put a guy like Plaxico Burress in the slot and McCleon will still be on him. Really Gun came here to get this done in 2 years, and he failed at that. We do hit people and are a lot more physical than we ever were under Robinson, that'd be the best praise I could heap on Gun. I do like that.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 07:17 AM
I started watching the Giants game again. thirteen seconds.... flag.... 75 seconds... flag....keeping a STALLED drive alive. I think the refs took them out of the game mentally, because they were in postion to make the plays and opened up strong against their running game... IIRC,weren't there two personal fouls called also?

That ABSOLUTELY happens all the time. It happened a few weeks ago when Iowa played Michigan.

The defense comes out pumped up and overly aggressive. They get a couple of late hit or PI calls and they start pulling punches for fear of getting more penalties.

It definitely could be an explanation for the poor tackling in the Giants game. Good catch.

KCTitus
01-04-2006, 07:32 AM
I have to applaud goach's use of The Lexicon...

Clearly, when KC beat an opponent deemed by gochiefs to be better, it was because of luck or other external factors not under KC's control.

Nice work!

Radar Chief
01-04-2006, 07:54 AM
I guess I was just working under a different impression of what this defense was supposed to be. I assumed they were gonna wind up middle of the pack, never thought they’d be a dominating defense. They clearly lack the talent to dominate.
I thought they were supposed to keep us in the game and give the ball back to our supposedly dominating offense.
IMO the defense did that, it’s the offense that didn’t “dominate” as they were supposed to.
How the hell this “dominating offense” didn’t score a single gawdamn touchdown against freak’n Buffalo I’ll never understand. :rolleyes:

Simply Red
01-04-2006, 08:02 AM
You go GIRL!!!Um, maybe you should learn to read.

I didn't say ONE GODDAMN WORD about Herman Edwards.
:clap:

KCTitus
01-04-2006, 08:11 AM
How the hell this “dominating offense” didn’t score a single gawdamn touchdown against freak’n Buffalo I’ll never understand. :rolleyes:

Willie Roaf.

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:11 AM
I hope Gunther stays. His defense is making strides, I think they have definately turned the corner. All they need is a few DL's and more experience and they're good to go.

Based on what I saw on the field this year I'd like to see Gun return and get an opportunity to pick his own staff. I agree all they need is more on the DLine.

I believe the Chiefs should also promote Solari. As good as he has been coaching the OLine I would like to see him become the OC. Saunders deserves his shot at HC.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:16 AM
Based on what I saw on the field this year I'd like to see Gun return and get an opportunity to pick his own staff. I agree all they need is more on the DLine.

I believe the Chiefs should also promote Solari. As good as he has been coaching the OLine I would like to see him become the OC. Saunders deserves his shot at HC.

My biggest problem with Gunther is that he came back here knowing that he wouldn't be able to pick his coaches.

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 08:18 AM
My biggest problem with Gunther is that he came back here knowing that he wouldn't be able to pick his coaches.

Does anyone know for a fact that Gunther was not allowed to pick his coaches and that he was forced to work with the existing coaches? Maybe Gunther liked them. Gunther called a bizarre pass defense all year. Why is that the assistant's fault or why would that change with a different assistant?

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:24 AM
Does anyone know for a fact that Gunther was not allowed to pick his coaches and that he was forced to work with the existing coaches? Maybe Gunther liked them. Gunther called a bizarre pass defense all year. Why is that the assistant's fault or why would that change with a different assistant?

Yeah, let me rephrase that.

There's 2 possible scenarios here:

1) Gunther agreed to come back, despite the fact that he didn't like his coaches yet wasn't able to change them.

2) Gunther agreed to come back, and decided not to change any coaches because he liked them all.

Neither scenario is very palatable to me.

Radar Chief
01-04-2006, 08:25 AM
Willie Roaf.

Or Al Saunders. :shrug:

siberian khatru
01-04-2006, 08:25 AM
Does anyone know for a fact that Gunther was not allowed to pick his coaches and that he was forced to work with the existing coaches? Maybe Gunther liked them. Gunther called a bizarre pass defense all year. Why is that the assistant's fault or why would that change with a different assistant?

There's that question, and there's also this:

Did the assistant coaches not follow Gun's orders?

I mean, if Gun told Giunta to play more man-to-man, did Giunta ignore him? Tell him to f*ck off? So Gun goes to DV and complains that no one's following his orders, and DV tells Gun "Sorry, I won a Super Bowl with Peter, I'm gonna trust him"????

If that's the case, then SHAME on Gunther for not quitting on the spot.

Otherwise, I have to believe that Gun and the assistants were on the same page.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:30 AM
There's that question, and there's also this:

Did the assistant coaches not follow Gun's orders?

I mean, if Gun told Giunta to play more man-to-man, did Giunta ignore him? Tell him to f*ck off? So Gun goes to DV and complains that no one's following his orders, and DV tells Gun "Sorry, I won a Super Bowl with Peter, I'm gonna trust him"????

If that's the case, then SHAME on Gunther for not quitting on the spot.

Otherwise, I have to believe that Gun and the assistants were on the same page.

Exactly.

There's no scenario here in which Gunther is completely absolved of blame.

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:33 AM
Like Denver? Or Washington? Or New England? Or Cincy? or San Diego?

I started watching the Giants game again. thirteen seconds.... flag.... 75 seconds... flag....keeping a STALLED drive alive. I think the refs took them out of the game mentally, because they were in postion to make the plays and opened up strong against their running game... IIRC,weren't there two personal fouls called also?

Buffalo held to fourteen points at home. That game is on the offense.

You have to play through injuries, but losing starters at each level did hurt. There is no doubt we woud've played better with Battle, Fox and Sims.

Even though we lost, most of those games came down to a play here or two.

The Giants game was the only time this year the defense seemed to fold, which was almost weekly under Grob. When I go back and watch tapes from Grob's last year I don't understand how anyone can't be happy with the Defensive improvement. The Defense played a very tough schedule this year and outside of the Giants (which looked like a Grob defense with everyone moving horizontally arriving late to the running lane) game they were much improved.

As for talent, there is more now than the last year under Grob, but it is improving. Under Grob the talent got worse each and every year. So Gun is improving play and talent is improving. As long as it continues to improve I'm fully behind Gun.

The injuries hurt the Chiefs because, while starting talent is greatly improved, the depth is still a big problem throughout the defense. The DL needs more talent in the middle and on the edge. Hall could be one answer, but we don't know because he was injured. Either way then need more talent on the DL. Secondary is in the same situation as the line.

The only place where the Chiefs may be set on defense is at Linebacker, but that remains to be seen with the way Bell played. I'm still holding out hope that Bell will improve greatly his second year in the system or Gun will bench him.

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 08:35 AM
Exactly.

There's no scenario here in which Gunther is completely absolved of blame.

In the world of coaching, I have a difficult time believing that the pecking order is not followd. I don't see how in the world a positions coach would be able to dictate to the DC or OC how things are going to be run. They can certainly make suggestions, but I can't imagine they have equal or more power. If they were to have such power, something is wrong with the system and shame on the coordinator for allowing it.

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:38 AM
My biggest problem with Gunther is that he came back here knowing that he wouldn't be able to pick his coaches.

That is my biggest question, I just don't understand. Was Gun happy with the staff, was it a DV loyalty thing, was Gun just unwilling to turn everything upside down? I have not seen any news or interviews that shed any light to why Gun did not bring in any of his own coaches.

Hopefully, as Gun demanded more talent last year, Gun will bring in his kind of coaches this year.

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:42 AM
I mean, if Gun told Giunta to play more man-to-man, did Giunta ignore him? Tell him to f*ck off? So Gun goes to DV and complains that no one's following his orders, and DV tells Gun "Sorry, I won a Super Bowl with Peter, I'm gonna trust him"????



I believe we did not see as much man-to-man defense because the DL and Bell were not getting the job done. Last year my stance was fix the secondary, this year it is fix the DL.

siberian khatru
01-04-2006, 08:44 AM
I believe we did not see as much man-to-man defense because the DL and Bell were not getting the job done. Last year my stance was fix the secondary, this year it is fix the DL.

Probably.

Regardless, the point was some folks have the idea that Gun wanted to do all these neat and correct things, and his assistants wouldn't let him.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:45 AM
That is my biggest question, I just don't understand. Was Gun happy with the staff, was it a DV loyalty thing, was Gun just unwilling to turn everything upside down? I have not seen any news or interviews that shed any light to why Gun did not bring in any of his own coaches.

Hopefully, as Gun demanded more talent last year, Gun will bring in his kind of coaches this year.

I've always been of the opinion that Gunther wanted to come back to KC SO BAD, that he'd accept any condition or do anything...

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:52 AM
Probably.

Regardless, the point was some folks have the idea that Gun wanted to do all these neat and correct things, and his assistants wouldn't let him.

That is the way the posts read. I'm happy that every aspect of the defense is moving the right direction and I generally like the type of defense Gun teaches.

Give the team a DLine like those in Carolina, Jacksonville, or Chicago and I believe we would see a top 5 defense. Either way, things are continually, although gradually, getting better in every way on defense.

Under Grob all aspects of the defense just slide from terrible, to worse, until it was the worst defense in the history of the franchise and one of the worst in the history of the NFL. Gun's defense is much improved after just two years. Give Gun another season and we may all be amazed how much things improve.

Chief Faithful
01-04-2006, 08:57 AM
I've always been of the opinion that Gunther wanted to come back to KC SO BAD, that he'd accept any condition or do anything...

That is one of the things I like about Gun. He seems truely motivated to build a great defense in KC because he loves the owner, team, stadium, fans, and traditions. Much better than Bono who looked down on the city and couldn't wait for the offseason to return to San Fran.

As long as the improvement continues I'm behind the coach we call Gun. Besides, what other coach in there right mind wanted to inherit the defensive disater Grob left behind. Gun was given a complete rebuild project and we should all have expected to give him at least 3 years.

HemiEd
01-04-2006, 09:13 AM
I've always been of the opinion that Gunther wanted to come back to KC SO BAD, that he'd accept any condition or do anything...

I agree to an extent, he wanted to get promoted past a linebackers coach. That was quite a fall from a HC.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 09:47 AM
That is one of the things I like about Gun. He seems truely motivated to build a great defense in KC because he loves the owner, team, stadium, fans, and traditions. Much better than Bono who looked down on the city and couldn't wait for the offseason to return to San Fran.

As long as the improvement continues I'm behind the coach we call Gun. Besides, what other coach in there right mind wanted to inherit the defensive disater Grob left behind. Gun was given a complete rebuild project and we should all have expected to give him at least 3 years.

See, I'm a "never look back" kind of person.

The fact that Gunther loves KC so much that he come back here, get nothing he wants (the coaches argument), and become the scapegoat for this team's failures (you have to admit, everybody blames him) is not admirable. It's kinda pathetic.

JMO.

Coogs
01-04-2006, 09:58 AM
I shut it off when his answer was "The scheme isn't changing. Gunther isn't going anywhere."

So management is going to tell the new HC who his assistant coaches are going to be as opposed to letting the new HC choose who he wants?

Sounds like we are becomming the Raiders. The new HC is just going to be a puppet.

I just want new blood. I don't care who the new OC or DC is. Just new blood. A new OC can't screw up this offense. Hell, all of us here know what the offense should be. Wouldn't a new OC be able to figure this out as well. And any DC could lead this team to the bottom feeder position we have been the last few years.

I want a new HC who is in control. Not some puppet!

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 10:31 AM
So management is going to tell the new HC who his assistant coaches are going to be as opposed to letting the new HC choose who he wants?

Sounds like we are becomming the Raiders. The new HC is just going to be a puppet.

I just want new blood. I don't care who the new OC or DC is. Just new blood. A new OC can't screw up this offense. Hell, all of us here know what the offense should be. Wouldn't a new OC be able to figure this out as well. And any DC could lead this team to the bottom feeder position we have been the last few years.

I want a new HC who is in control. Not some puppet!


That's how a large part of me feels. I do however think that Saunders wouldn't be a puppet. Based on reports to date he and Peterson don't always see eye-to-eye, and there has been some friction between the two.

I understand the desire for new blood. When you look at a Saban or a Smith or a Marvin Lewis or even a Del Rio you see a certain fire in a younger first time NFL coaches and in the team. It's different than what a veteran coach brings. It isn't always better, and I can't explain exactly what it is (perhaps it is infectious naive optimism) but when players buy into it it seems to work fairly well.

For that reason I'd be open to a Rivera, or a college coach. There are three college coaches with ties to Belichick - Saban, Ferentz and Hill (Fresno State). Each of those guys has achieved a good degree of success in college. Saban seems to doing well with Miami. I'd be open to Ferentz or Hill.

Calcountry
01-04-2006, 10:44 AM
My sources tell me that JA doesn't have the first clue as to Gun's status with the team.

FAXHow about that in poem form? :D ROFL

shaneo69
01-04-2006, 10:58 AM
That is my biggest question, I just don't understand. Was Gun happy with the staff, was it a DV loyalty thing, was Gun just unwilling to turn everything upside down? I have not seen any news or interviews that shed any light to why Gun did not bring in any of his own coaches.

My guess is that whenever Gunther brought up issues like this during negotiations to become DC, Carl just kept offering him more money. GC pretty much had all the leverage considering the Jets and Falcons were also trying to hire him.