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jAZ
01-04-2006, 03:11 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=wojnarowski_adrian&id=2278971

Tuesday, January 3, 2006
If Kansas City calls, Herm should answer

By Adrian Wojnarowski
Special to ESPN.com

They've been dancing this dance for months, stealing glances and fluttering eyelashes from halfway across the country. Herm Edwards has gone back and forth in public about his desire to make a run for the Kansas City Chiefs coaching job, but he ought to do himself and his career a favor and go balls-out after it.
It won't be long until Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson asks the Jets for permission to negotiate with Edwards, banking on close relationships with Jets general manager Terry Bradway and Edwards to make a rare NFL coaching transaction happen. Edwards shouldn't think twice. Five years with the Jets, three playoff appearances and two postseason victories later, his run is over with a broken-down old team.


Herman Edwards has done a lot for the Jets, but with a rebuilding job looming, it might be the right time to depart.
He wanted a contract extension to allow him a chance to be part of the rebuilding process, but that's a waste of his time and energy. Unless he were rebuilding off a Super Bowl champion, there would be no public patience with this forlorn franchise. The Jets have a frustrated, ne'er-do-well fan base, desperate to win and win now. Edwards ought to run out of there, and never, ever turn back.

In Kansas City, there's a team that's better, younger and more talented than the Jets. Dick Vermeil has left his program in good shape, left it in the hands of a good GM in Peterson. Trent Green and Larry Johnson are a profoundly more appealing backfield than what's left of Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin. The Jets are the home office for bizarre departures, beginning with Bill Parcells and Al Groh and immortalized by Bill Belichick.

The Jets lose coaches the way kids lose balloons at the state fair. They just fly away. Edwards used a Jets news conference several weeks ago to throw out the possibility of pursuing the Chiefs vacancy, suggesting that perhaps he wouldn't be wanted with the Jets. He was angling for a contract extension, believing he's underpaid with two years left at $2 million apiece.

Sometimes, I'd love to see Edwards take a major college job. I could see him thriving in a cool Pac-10 job. He has so much Pete Carroll in him, another ex-Jets coach who swears now that New York didn't get him, nor did he get it. Yet Edwards brings a different perspective to the NFL, different sensibilities.

Peter Roby of the Center for the Study of Sports in Society had been talking to me about the courage it took for the Jets' Laveranues Coles to tell the story of a childhood scarred by sexual molestation. In the machismo-suffused locker room culture of the NFL, this was the kind of honesty that is rare, but Roby found it no accident that Cole's confession had come under Edwards' watch.

As Roby discovered, this was a different football coach for modern times, with different values, a leader who had invited Roby and his staff into the Jets facility to address his players about all matters of abuse that long have been synonymous with the violent football culture.

"From what I've seen, Herm Edwards is trying to develop people, and not just win football games," Roby said. "He's trying to perpetuate a different stereotype, a caring citizen who can also be a really good football player who wins games.

"People in New York should know what they've got in him."

Edwards should take the money and run, leaving the Jets with Kansas City draft picks. Why would they want a guy who doesn't want to be there, anyway? A lot of fans and a lot of talk radio voices have dispatched an uncommon viciousness his way, and after this 4-12 season and what awaits next year, it's hard to believe he would survive 2006 as Jets coach.

This is a broken-down team, a coach killer in a profession that's about staying one step ahead of the posse. Edwards owes no loyalty to the Jets. He isn't a college coach responsible for honoring his promise to recruits, but something rare on the coaching market in this offseason: a head coach with a winning playoff pedigree.

Of course, this isn't college football, where Edwards' exemplary graduation rates and a clean program can win him favor in a lost season.

Edwards is a rah-rah college coach in a cynical pro market. He's entertaining, but that never has been a fit in New York. When he's gone, the Jets will miss him. They're destined for a spiral, one Edwards could sidestep if he's smart here.

And when he goes, bringing to an end the tenure of the most successful Jets playoff coach ever, you wonder whether people will ever stop to consider what Roby, the sports sociologist, had to say about the coach of the Jets. Perhaps by then, they'll all know what they had in Herm Edwards.

Adrian Wojnarowski is a sports columnist for The Record (N.J.) and a regular contributor to ESPN.com. He can be reached at ESPNWoj10@aol.com. His new book, The Miracle Of St. Anthony: A Season with Coach Bob Hurley And Basketball's Most Improbable Dynasty, is available nationwide.

RedDread
01-04-2006, 03:19 AM
Do we need more Rah-Rah? I think we need an enforcer.

tk13
01-04-2006, 03:23 AM
Herm comes from a military family. I do not think he's Parcells, but I do not think he's Mariucci either. He just doesn't yell and scream for the heck of it.

tk13
01-04-2006, 03:28 AM
http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/giants/stories/edwards.html

Well known as a players' coach, Edwards has a knack for making it work

Thursday, September 08, 2005

BY MIKE GARAFOLO
FOR THE STAR-LEDGER

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Jets running back Curtis Martin was a bit leery about his new coach. Herman Edwards had a reputation as the ultimate players' coach, a former player who knew the players' pain.

But did Edwards feel for the players too much? Would he be able to hand out discipline? Would the inmates being running the asylum?

"I was kind of iffy when Herm first came here," Martin said. "I didn't know whether or not he was too cool. You know what I mean? I understood he was a player. I didn't know how that would play out.

"But he has found a good balance whereas he can be a player's friend and a player's boss. He can be demanding. He knows how much of a leash to give us. He knows how to take care of his players. And more so than a coach, Herm is just one of the best human beings I've ever met."

Edwards, who played 10 NFL seasons with the Eagles, Rams and Falcons, came to the Jets in 2001, following old-school coaches Bill Parcells and Al Groh. It was first believed Edwards' kinder-gentler style would allow players to exhale and relax to the point where they wouldn't perform.

Edwards' first training camp was quickly dubbed "Club Med" because he cut down on two-a-day practices. His player- and media-friendly ways were immediately criticized.

Four years later, Edwards has led the Jets to three playoff berths -- the most of any coach in club history. What's more, the Jets have been the least penalized team in the NFL over the past four seasons -- a sure sign of discipline. In short, Edwards, whose emotionally charged speeches and trustworthy relationship with his players is a staple, has smashed the perception that a players' coach can't win and be provide discipline while being close to his players.

"The one thing about (former Eagles coach Dick) Vermeil is he was very loyal to his players," said Edwards, who played under Vermeil for six season in Philadelphia. "He was a players' coach. Sometimes people think when you're a players' coach the players do whatever they want.

"That's not the true meaning of a players' coach. A players' coach is a guy who the players understand is doing everything in their best interest. You can be hands-on with the players but there's a line you never cross with them."

As for his perceived lack of discipline, Edwards said, "My discipline isn't loud. My discipline is like the nun's discipline. It's matter-of-fact. You don't have to hit anybody in the head with a hammer. If you're not a disciplined player, you're not going to be here."

Edwards believes in giving his players a stake in the team. He has formed a veterans' committee to bring players' concerns to his attention. He asks players for their input. His door is always open.

"I think being a players' coach means you're in tune with your players," Jets center Kevin Mawae said. "You're in tune with the attitude of the locker room. You know which guys you need to lean on to get the players going in the direction you want.

"The thing about Herm is the players respect him. The fact he played in the league gives him instance credibility. ... This is the type of team players want to play for. Hopefully, Herm will be here as long as I am because I don't know if I would want to stick around for anybody else."

Edwards, admitting a player or two has tested him in the past, said he learned his quiet discipline from his late father. His father taught Herman that as a leader, he must be stoic in the face of adversity and must be fair and honest with the people he leads.

Colts coach Tony Dungy, a close friend of Edwards; Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer, who coached the Chiefs when Edwards was a coach and scout there; and Vermeil have also helped shape Edwards' style.

Edwards learned a lot during his playing days as well.

"When I was a player, it was a different era of football," he said. "When a coach told a player to jump, he jumped. Never asked a question. Well, I was the opposite. When the coach told me to jump, I asked him why. People called me a rebel. I just always felt you tell the players what to do but you also tell them why we're doing it this way."

As a result, players around the league want to play for Edwards. Many tell him exactly that during pregame warmups.

"That's the biggest compliment you can get," Edwards said. "The players know. We've hit some bumps in the road here but the players know what I'm about. There's no hidden agenda. I am who I am."

tk13
01-04-2006, 03:35 AM
I've been looking for a place to post this stuff... I think this is probably good since we're talking about Herm's character and background.

Every morning, except on game days, Jets coach Herman Edwards arrives at the team's training complex before five, flicks on the lights in the weight room and begins a series of exercises he's been doing for 30 years. "I like the silence and the solitude at that hour," says Edwards, 51, whose second child, Gabrielle, was born on Aug. 10. "I have 16-hour days ahead of me. Exercising gives me the energy to get through them." His work ethic comes from Herman Edwards Sr., a master sergeant who served in the U.S. Army for 27 years (including World War II) and taught his son the discipline and organization that Edwards carried with him during nine seasons as an Eagles defensive back. In those years coach Dick Vermeil stopped handing out a best-conditioned-athlete award because Edwards always won. "I never wanted the excuse that I was tired during a game," says Edwards. "That would be letting the team down."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/players/11/01/workout1107/

"If players say, 'Coach is coming out of character,' that's when you lose the team," Edwards says. "If you are the head guy and you show them your will, they say, 'Coach is OK. He's OK, we're OK.' "

Edwards understood that from his time as a defensive back with the Philadelphia Eagles (1977-85), a team for which he immediately started despite going undrafted.

He understood that from the trying times he and Tony Dungy endured when he was Dungy's assistant head coach with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1996-2000.

That experience helped as Edwards was second-guessed by the minute in New York on radio sports talk shows and in splashy tabloid headlines. But his beliefs were reinforced during frequent calls from close friends Dungy, now Indianapolis' coach, and Kansas City Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil.

"You worry about anybody in New York," Dungy says, "but if anybody has the makeup to withstand all that, it's Herman. He's a tough-minded guy. He's not going to let things sway him off course, and I think that's what you need to be successful there."

Edwards' cool might be pushed at times "You play to win the game" is said through clenched teeth in one film clip. But Edwards never blows it.

"He's got a lot of emotion," his wife, Lia, says, "but he handles it differently from other people. A lot of coaches show emotion by ranting and raving, running up and down the sidelines and using any language they want to. That's not my husband."

She has never heard her husband swear, no matter how 19-year-old son Marcus, a wide receiver at the University of South Florida, tests his patience. She has never seen Edwards take an alcoholic drink virgin strawberry daiquiris are as close as he gets.

When wide receiver Laveranues Coles was honored by a brewing company last season, Edwards politely declined a cap from a public relations representative.

Edwards is very much the son of Master Sgt. Herman Edwards, his late father. Devoted to the military for 27 years, the elder Edwards was every bit an officer and gentleman. He died in a car crash in March 1978, months after seeing his son pick off Joe Namath for his first pro interception.

Edwards ticks off the values instilled in him, the same values he strives to pass on to his players.

Discipline. Hard work. Respect for authority. Humility. Politeness.

And he hurries from one corner of his office to the next as he tells a time he learned so much while cleaning behind his family's Seaside, Calif., home.

The youngster had dutifully piled up leaves and trash in the middle of the yard.

"Son, you didn't do the corners," his father told him.

"Dad, nobody sees those."

"Son, those are the details. Those are the little things. Those are the things that are most important."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/jets/2003-01-07-cover-edwards_x.htm

jAZ
01-04-2006, 03:43 AM
"From what I've seen, Herm Edwards is trying to develop people, and not just win football games," Roby said. "He's trying to perpetuate a different stereotype, a caring citizen who can also be a really good football player who wins games.

...

And when he goes, bringing to an end the tenure of the most successful Jets playoff coach ever, you wonder whether people will ever stop to consider what Roby, the sports sociologist, had to say about the coach of the Jets. Perhaps by then, they'll all know what they had in Herm Edwards.
I really like what this guy has to say about Herm Edwards. I understand why CP wants him so badly. And I can't disagree. He's a guy who will do things "the right way". He's a profile guy who will likely keep Vermile's profile in place.

That means a lot to me. I want to be proud of my team, not embarassed by them. I think Herm will do that part right.

I also like that last comment. "most successful Jets playoff coach EVER".

DenverChief
01-04-2006, 03:45 AM
I've been looking for a place to post this stuff... I think this is probably good since we're talking about Herm's character and background.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/players/11/01/workout1107/



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/jets/2003-01-07-cover-edwards_x.htm

Okay I'm on the Herm Edwards train

jAZ
01-04-2006, 03:56 AM
Great articles tk!

I'm become more and more comfortable with Herm after reading them.

tk13
01-04-2006, 04:03 AM
Yeah, I liked them... I mean, I don't think he runs the tightest ship in the league, he's not Parcells or something like that, but I think most fans around the league see the guy as the leader of some kinda Hugh Hefner playboy mansion type atmosphere where Herm just goes around flying off the handle and yelling at the press all the time. I don't think that's quite accurate. He seems to be the epitome of personal discipline, actually.

huskerdooz
01-04-2006, 05:36 AM
Herm comes from a military family. I do not think he's Parcells, but I do not think he's Mariucci either. He just doesn't yell and scream for the heck of it.

If I was going to compare Herm to anyone in the NFL coaching ranks it would probably be Tony Dungy. IMO they are alot alike, Herm might be a little more rah rah then Tony but they both exude that same quiet confidence when dealing with his players.

If we could get Herm without giving up draft pick compensation (I know, I've read all the Gruden Rule threads but it still seems to be an issue in all the reports linking Herm and the Chiefs) while at the same time retaining Al Saunders as the OC it would be the best of both worlds. I just don't think that Al would stay around to be OC for just anyone. I also think that if Al isn't hired as HC here in KC, then he moves on to become HC in DET or MIN or somewhere else.

the Talking Can
01-04-2006, 05:54 AM
if KC calls they should say "Is Marty there?"

Herm: "Marty who?"

KC: "Marty Schottenheimer!"

and then hang up...

jspchief
01-04-2006, 07:39 AM
The more I consider it, the more I think Herm Edwards is our best choice. His short stint as head coach has been more successful than not. Most of the coordinator candidates are flavor of the month type guys. Saunders has some questionable history That make me worry about him being in charge (LJ on the bench for a year and a half, Kris Wilson, etc.)

Edwards really does have the best HC resume of the guys available.

Now if we could just get out of the damn draft pick thing.

tomahawk kid
01-04-2006, 07:46 AM
Brian Waters indicated that the Chiefs need a disciplinarian the other day in an interview.

Through my premium membership (TIC - :) ), I've also heard that some of the other Chiefs veterans feel the same way.

When I read about Herm having "special rules" for guys like Ty Law, it makes me doubt he has a true disciplinarian overtone and may be too much like Vermiel.

I think that's holding me back from backing Edwards hire 100%.

I'm not sure that Saunders would be that guy either.

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 07:46 AM
It's an interesting tale between two cities. He's being run out of New York after making the playoffs 3 of his 5 years as head coach, because New York fans and media are disgusted he couldn't get it done in that time frame. The fans are going to be disgusted that they are in a rebuild mode. He's going to go to a city where they haven't had a playoff win in over a decade and only one postseason appearance during that time, but where the city, fans and media will embrace him with open arms.

Carl and Moore's heads would explode in the big apple.

jspchief
01-04-2006, 08:00 AM
It's an interesting tale between two cities. He's being run out of New York after making the playoffs 3 of his 5 years as head coach, because New York fans and media are disgusted he couldn't get it done in that time frame. The fans are going to be disgusted that they are in a rebuild mode. He's going to go to a city where they haven't had a playoff win in over a decade and only one postseason appearance during that time, but where the city, fans and media will embrace him with open arms.

Carl and Moore's heads would explode in the big apple.The New York media and fans can be brutal. I think a lot of fans were convinced they were a game away from the Superbowl last year. IMO, they weren't even as close as they got. There may be some unrealistic expectations for him in NYJ.

Personally, I think Chiefs fans would be pleased with that same performance here. Quick ascension, multiple post season appearances, at least one post season win, the down years with viable excuses. Think of what this town thought of Marty in his fifth year. The resumes are comparable.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:22 AM
The more I consider it, the more I think Herm Edwards is our best choice. His short stint as head coach has been more successful than not. Most of the coordinator candidates are flavor of the month type guys. Saunders has some questionable history That make me worry about him being in charge (LJ on the bench for a year and a half, Kris Wilson, etc.)

Edwards really does have the best HC resume of the guys available.

Now if we could just get out of the damn draft pick thing.

tk13 has almost converted me too...

jspchief
01-04-2006, 08:28 AM
tk13 has almost converted me too...It wasn't really a conversion for me. All along I haven't been sure who I wanted. I was never overly opposed to Edwards, but I wouldn't have listed him as the guy I wanted either.

But he's really got the best resume of the guys we're looking at. I have my doubts, but I have greater doubts for a lot of these other guys. And the one thing that sticks with me is he is a defensive minded coach, which I think we desperately need.

BigRedChief
01-04-2006, 08:34 AM
I've been looking for a place to post this stuff...

Okay I'll post this here too.....


Well he was coach of the jets the last 5 years same length of time as DV in the same conference and had to play the Pats twice a year.
Does anyone really think that the Jets have as much talent as the Chiefs? During this time the Chiefs have had much more talent than the Jets but........

The main thing is the main thing. And in bottom lining the main thing Herm did more in NY with less than DV accomplished here in KC.

Chiefs playoff appearances in the last 5 years = 1
Jets playoff apperances in the last 5 years = 3

Chief playoff wins in the last 5 years = 0
Jets playoff wins in the last 5 years = 2

In that pressure cooker of the NY media and with inferior talent he made the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years. But he did hire Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as OC's. But I don't think he's as bad as choice as some make him out to be.

He's still not my choice but I could live with the selection of Herm.

htismaqe
01-04-2006, 08:35 AM
It wasn't really a conversion for me. All along I haven't been sure who I wanted. I was never overly opposed to Edwards, but I wouldn't have listed him as the guy I wanted either.

But he's really got the best resume of the guys we're looking at. I have my doubts, but I have greater doubts for a lot of these other guys. And the one thing that sticks with me is he is a defensive minded coach, which I think we desperately need.

I could not agree more.

I don't really know who I want, either.

Hoover
01-04-2006, 08:43 AM
I have a hard time paying draft picks for a HC who would get canned next season by the sounds of things.

Now if its a 5th or 6th rounder, that I might be able to do.

mlyonsd
01-04-2006, 08:49 AM
I have a hard time paying draft picks for a HC who would get canned next season by the sounds of things.


I agree completely with that. If the Jets believed in Edwards they'd be looking for ways to make him stay....not in talks with another team to unload him.

the Talking Can
01-04-2006, 08:59 AM
despite my jokes, I am starting to see Edwards as the best of the available options...listening to the radio I've heard various NY reporters describing his tenure:

3 playoff appearances and 2 wins...one of which was a 41-0 pounding of Indy, another was a road win over San Diego followed by an OT loss on the road at Pittsburgh...can't really complain about that..the 2 non-playoff years involved injuries to the starting QB..

another reporter claimed that Herm's player have fought for him all year long and that to a man they want him back...his only criticism was that Herm is a poor game day coach, clock management etc...just like DV...

so, given our pitiful options for a new coach...it seems clear to me that Dick Edwards and Al Saunders are the only good options...Davis/stoops/Fassel/Gun etc no thanks

Though losing yet another draft pick for a coach is insanely stupid and painful, and typical of the Chiefs, it is probably the best of not-so-good options.

Though I would be fine with Saunders as well.

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 09:08 AM
Here are my 4 biggest problems with Edwards as HC.

1. He's a Marty clone. He beat San Diego in the playoffs because Marty played classic Martyball. The very next week Edwards did the same exact thing and lost as well. How could he not have learned that lesson.

2. His choice of assistant coaches hasn't been all that great. I'm a firm believer that coaches who are successful surround themselves with good assistants - Marty did it early in his tenure with KC, Parcells has done it, Belichick, Gibbs, etc.

3. His clock management is horrible; but that is something Chief fans are accustomed to.

4. Giving up picks for a coach sours my stomach.

siberian khatru
01-04-2006, 09:11 AM
I think a lot of folks who are getting comfortable with Herm are just preparing themselves for the inevitable. I hesitate to call it "rationalization," because that sounds negative and accusatory, even phony -- like your instincts aren't valid.

I don't know who the best candidate is. Herm looks more attractive because he has a record, he's a known quantity. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's the best. For all we know, Bob Stoops has the best personal and professional qualifications. But we're hesistant to embrace him because he's probably the biggest unknown.

Plus, we simply don't trust Carl. If he pulled something out of left field, that would involve a high level of trusting his judgment, which virtually none of us have.

I'm not saying Herm's the wrong choice. I'm just doing some dime-store psychoanalyzing.

Chiefnj
01-04-2006, 09:14 AM
I have a 5th problem with Herm, but it is just speculation.

I fear that Carl will have a lot of control over Herm and may insist that certain changes not be made - like keeping Gunther and crew. I realize that the D made some strides in some areas, but I think his over aggressive style of coaching that he apparently insists on keeping is too easily exploited by good teams like Denver.

siberian khatru
01-04-2006, 09:15 AM
I fear that Carl will have a lot of control

I think that's inherent in any hire he makes.

the Talking Can
01-04-2006, 09:19 AM
I think a lot of folks who are getting comfortable with Herm are just preparing themselves for the inevitable. I hesitate to call it "rationalization," because that sounds negative and accusatory, even phony -- like your instincts aren't valid.


that's exactly what I'm doing....

MOhillbilly
01-04-2006, 09:22 AM
great sounds like more of the samething. This team lacks an authority figure that isnt afraid to say " I will cut your ****ing ass if you blow your responcibility" from day one.

Frosty
01-04-2006, 09:22 AM
I have a 5th problem with Herm, but it is just speculation.

I fear that Carl will have a lot of control over Herm and may insist that certain changes not be made - like keeping Gunther and crew. I realize that the D made some strides in some areas, but I think his over aggressive style of coaching that he apparently insists on keeping is too easily exploited by good teams like Denver.

People are ripping on Herm because he hired Hackett in NY but their also afraid that Carl will specify the asst coaches if Herm is hired.

Looks like we're screwed either way.

ExtremeChief
01-04-2006, 10:38 AM
It looks like Herm is the most qualified for the job and also the most "Vermiel-like" out there. That scares the hell out of me.

It's not that I think the players won't play for him... they will.

It's not that I think they won't win games... they will.

It's the loyalty to a fault, conservative play not to lose, KC was good last year lets just make a few tweaks and keep all the assistant coaches that scares me.

Someone has to come in as the HC and shake things up, and scare the hell out of some players. They need some attitude, balls, and fire. I don't think Edwards brings that. I think he's too close to Carl to really make a change. I think Edwards brings loyalty to Carl and, in turn, mediocrity.

And that's why he will probably end up being the next head coach.