What are your feelings on Herm Edwards?

[Hammock Parties]

Time to see where the BB stands on our soon to be head coach.

[siberian khatru]

Feelings ... nothing more than feelings ...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I will be ok with the hire (like I or anyone has a choice) as long as he keeps the offensive system we run intact by keeping Terry Shea or someone like that to run the offense. We don't need AS to run the offense, we just need one of the other coaches, like Shea or someone else.

I'd rather have Saunders though.

[Mecca]

I like Herm......I don't exactly see any other canidates jumping out.

[58-4ever]

this sucks...it absolutely sucks...like someone said "I hate this offseason already...I hate herm...he is the wost game manager in the nfl...way worse than DV ever was...I wanna win when we are up 24-6 at HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Imon Yourside]

Herm is a Ra Ra guy, just say NO!

[Rausch]

I talked to a current NFL player who once played for herm.

His quote?

"Herm is a dick. You play your ass off and he just keeps expecting more."

That is EXACTLY what we need right now...

[Dunit35]

We are making a HUGE mistake, what a joke. Pissing away Al Saunders will be the biggest mistake CP has ever made. I wish evil things upon him from now on.

[Hammock Parties]

I talked to a current NFL player who once played for herm.

His quote?

"Herm is a dick. You play your ass off and he just keeps expecting more."

That is EXACTLY what we need right now...

What player?

[the Talking Can]

I think he's a safe pick by CP.

I think this is a shitty year to need a coach...where are the Marvin Lewis's?

I think he's a bad combo of DV's emotion and Marty's play to lose attitude.

I think I'd probably rather have Saunders.

I think if he gets a playoff win I'll gladly eat crow.

Who knows, really? He's probably just going to bring us more mediocrity...that's all CP understands.

[Rausch]

What player?

Believe me or don't.

[the Talking Can]

Believe me or don't.

who the **** do you think you are? Nick Athan?

[Hammock Parties]

Believe me or don't.

I believe you. I'm just curious.

[Logical]

Neither love it or hate it, it is more of a shoulder shrug type of decision. As long as we don't give up a 1st or 2nd rounder I won't feel strongly one way or another. I do think he is much to much like Marty for me to be thrilled with his hiring. There really are not a lot of candidates right now that seem all that.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

I'd just rather have Saunders. And the draft picks, Saunders & the draft picks

[Phobia]

What player?

Steve Martin

[Hammock Parties]

Steve Martin

Apparently that motivation didn't work for Steve. ROFL

[FringeNC]

My feelings on Herm are undecided. I'd rather not give up draft picks, and I'd rather have Saunders, but Herm's success or lack thereof will be determined by his coordinators. He's not an Xs and Os. guy. Once we find who his coordinators are, I'll be able to answer the question.

As a motivator / administrator, Herm is fine I think. I wanna know the damn coordinators, though.

[Phobia]

Apparently that motivation didn't work for Steve. ROFL

I'd say it did. The year he left the Jets the Patriots gave him over a Million dollar deal for a year. I don't think he even played the whole year out but he damn sure got paid.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd say it did. The year he left the Jets the Patriots gave him over a Million dollar deal for a year. I don't think he even played the whole year out but he damn sure got paid.

OK, maybe it worked for STEVE, but not for his teams. ROFL

[Katipan]

I like his press conferences more than any other coach.

And really, thats whats important.

[tk13]

I talked to a current NFL player who once played for herm.

His quote?

"Herm is a dick. You play your ass off and he just keeps expecting more."

That is EXACTLY what we need right now...
Yep, Herm is not Parcells, but he's not some softie who just gets walked all over. I think he's a good fit for the team we have right now. Maybe if we had a different kind of team I'd be more in favor of someone like Stoops or somebody else, but I think this team would respond best to Herm Edwards.

[the Talking Can]

I'd be more comfortable with the Herm hiring if I knew he cried as well as DV.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Yep, Herm is not Parcells, but he's not some softie who just gets walked all over. I think he's a good fit for the team we have right now. Maybe if we had a different kind of team I'd be more in favor of someone like Stoops or somebody else, but I think this team would respond best to Herm Edwards.

I don't think Herm can take a sow's ear and make a silk purse. He's not going to make Eric Hicks a player. It took DT on the other side to do that. He's not going to make Bartee a player. Herm can't make John Browning 10 years younger.

We need talent. And to get that talent we need draft picks. And we are (reportedly) giving up picks to land this guy.

I think it's just huge mistake.

[Rausch]

Steve Martin

I have absolutely no connections to Saturday Night Live...

[grandllama]

Steve Martin

Come for the standup, stay for the football....

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I don't think Herm can take a sow's ear and make a silk purse. He's not going to make Eric Hicks a player. It took DT on the other side to do that. He's not going to make Bartee a player. Herm can't make John Browning 10 years younger.

We need talent. And to get that talent we need draft picks. And we are (reportedly) giving up picks to land this guy.

I think it's just huge mistake.

Well said.

[Phobia]

I have absolutely no connections to Saturday Night Live...

You didn't think I was that good a listener, did you?

[grandllama]

We need talent. And to get that talent we need draft picks. And we are (reportedly) giving up picks to land this guy.

I think it's just huge mistake.

Yeah, but look who's doing the drafting (LJ pick excluded)

I agree, the Hermie era will rival even the John Mackovic era that will help Clark usher Carl out the door sooner than 4 years from February.... (god I hope I'm wrong... about Hermie, not Carl)

[Rausch]

I'd say it did. The year he left the Jets the Patriots gave him over a Million dollar deal for a year. I don't think he even played the whole year out but he damn sure got paid.

Indeed he did.

Martin has always been a role player.

He's great against the run and fundamentally sound, but he's got poor NFL speed. As far as the college game he was great, but he can't get after the QB.

Honestly, I'm shocked someone didn't make him a 3-4 end with the strength he's got...

[the Talking Can]

Indeed he did.

Martin has always been a role player.

He's great against the run and fundamentally sound, but he's got poor NFL speed. As far as the college game he was great, but he can't get after the QB.

Honestly, I'm shocked someone didn't make him a 3-4 end with the strength he's got...

they ran all over him in NY...he was terrible...I can't believe they paid him a dime...

[FloridaMan88]

My problem with the whole Herm situation is the fact the Chiefs are actually going to give up draft picks for a head coach with 39-41 career record and coming off a 4-12 season.

[Hammock Parties]

Please VOTE, people.

[greg63]

I would go for Saunders or Martz; just to keep the offense in tact.

[Hammock Parties]

Hey, does anyone else know what coaches teams had to give up draft picks for?

I can only think of Vermeil, Gruden and now Germ Edwards.

[Mecca]

Please VOTE, people.

I think people should vote they like him just to spite you.

[milkman]

I can't vote in this poll, cause hate isn't strong enough to describe the feeling I have for the idea of Herm as HC in KC.

[Hammock Parties]

I think people should vote they like him just to spite you.

Just to spite me, huh? ROFL

I don't care if people like Germ Edwards. I just want to see what everyone thinks.

I imagine the same people that voted to keep Gunther are now voting for Germ Edwards.

[Mecca]

I can't vote in this poll, cause hate isn't strong enough to describe the feeling I have for the idea of Herm as HC in KC.

Did you ever decide who you wanted to be the coach?

[Mecca]

Just to spite me, huh? ROFL

I don't care if people like Germ Edwards. I just want to see what everyone thinks.

I imagine the same people that voted to keep Gunther are now voting for Germ Edwards.

Ugh! I like Herm but I think it's time for Gun to get the hell out of here.

[grandllama]

I imagine the same people that voted to keep Gunther are now voting for Germ Edwards.

Wrong...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Hey, does anyone else know what coaches teams had to give up draft picks for?

I can only think of Vermeil, Gruden and now Germ Edwards.

That's all I can think of too.

I would only want to give up picks if the coach won a Super Bowl already. Gruden's coaching was a big part of their SB win, so that was worth it. Gruden's offensive genius was enough to put them over the top, because of that defense to help it out as well. We don't have that many of the pieces of the puzzle in place to hire a defensive minded head coach and then expect an immediate run to the SB. I don't expect us to make hardly any moves this offseason, besides maybe trading for Herm Edwards. And Hermy won't be enough to get this team over the top. Same talent, same ole' story for the D next year, IMO, possibly...

[milkman]

Did you ever decide who you wanted to be the coach?

You people are tuned to my reputation for hating, a well earned reputation I might add, that you seem to miss it when I don't hate.

Al Saunders as long as he doesn't retain Gun, or Kirk Ferentz.

[Hammock Parties]

Bronco fans are already laughing at us for this pathetic move:

Works for me. The Chefs get a coach who's nothing special and have to give up draft picks to get him.

That's "the best GM in the NFL" hard at work right there.

[Hammock Parties]

Get ready to get swept by Shanahan next year.

Herm was 0-6 against Belichick the last three years. Can you say "OUTCOACHED."

[Phobia]

Hey, does anyone else know what coaches teams had to give up draft picks for?

I can only think of Vermeil, Gruden and now Germ Edwards.

The Jets gave up picks for Parcells and Martin and then the Patriots gave them back for Belichick.

[Mecca]

You people are tuned to my reputation for hating, a well earned reputation I might add, that you seem to miss it when I don't hate.

Al Saunders as long as he doesn't retain Gun, or Kirk Ferentz.

Ah, I personally wouldn't have a problem with the Ferentz move but I don't know if it's a good move with the team we have right now.

[Mecca]

Get ready to get swept by Shanahan next year.

Herm was 0-6 against Belichick the last three years. Can you say "OUTCOACHED."

Yea cause Mike Shahahan=Bill Belichick :rolleyes:

[grandllama]

Bronco fans are already laughing at us for this pathetic move:

Jeezus, I must be Shrek, cuz I agree with a Donkey....

[tk13]

I could give a crap what a Broncos fan says. Seriously. Who cares. If you gave me a piece of toilet paper and the opinion of a Bronco fan the only thing I'd have is two places to wipe my shit on.

[Hammock Parties]

Yea cause Mike Shahahan=Bill Belichick :rolleyes:

They are both great football coaches.

[Mecca]

I'm sure Broncos fans are going to sit around praising the moves we make talking about how the Chiefs are going to be good.

Those same people would probably still tell you Tatum Bell is better than Larry Johnson. Let's remember that source when you post their opinions of our moves.

[Hammock Parties]

I could give a crap what a Broncos fan says. Seriously. Who cares. If you gave me a piece of toilet paper and the opinion of a Bronco fan the only thing I'd have is two places to wipe my shit on.

I'm waiting for your first "Shanahan, Holmgren, Vermeil, Edwards...these guys are good football coaches!" post.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Bronco fans are already laughing at us for this pathetic move:

I'm laughing at the Broncos because they're gonna go Chiefs on us and lose in the divisional round at home.

[tk13]

I'm waiting for your first "Dick Vermeil, Mike Shanahan, Mike Holmgren, Herman Edwards...these guys are good football coaches!" post.
I don't think Herm is as good of a coach as Dick Vermeil. But Herm hasn't coached for 30 years.

[FloridaMan88]

If Herm comes to KC, get ready for a bunch of 7-9, 8-8 finishes, horrible game/clock mgt, conservative gameplans, an emotionally unstable Head Coach whose act will quickly wear on the players.

Carl is giving up draft picks for a coach with a 39-41 career record, a guy who hasn't finished better than 10-6 and is coming off a 4-12 season.

And this all goes back to Carl wanting a crony in place who will agree with every move and decision Peterson makes.

[grandllama]

I'm laughing at the Broncos because they're gonna go Chiefs on us and lose in the divisional round at home.

ah yes grasshopper, the 13-3 curse...

[Hammock Parties]

I'm laughing at the Broncos because they're gonna go Chiefs on us and lose in the divisional round at home.

Every single one of us would trade positions with them right now.

[milkman]

Ah, I personally wouldn't have a problem with the Ferentz move but I don't know if it's a good move with the team we have right now.

I think the guy could bring out the best in the team in place right now, and lead us into a smooth transition into the future.

[Mecca]

If Herm comes to KC, get ready for a bunch of 7-9, 8-8 finishes, horrible game/clock mgt, conservative gameplans, an emotionally unstable Head Coach whose act will quickly wear on the players.

Carl is giving up draft picks for a coach with a 39-41 career record, a guy who hasn't finished better than 10-6 and is coming off a 4-12 season.

And this all goes back to Carl wanting a crony in place who will agree with every move and decision Peterson makes.

Because you know Herm never had a winning season or went to the playoffs with the Jets.........

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Every single one of us would trade positions with them right now.

I'll change my name to Broncos Bitch if they beat whoever they play next week.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

ah yes grasshopper, the 13-3 curse...

The Jake Plummer curse. ROFL

[grandllama]

Because you know Herm never had a winning season or went to the playoffs with the Jets.........

It has been pointed out here ad nauseum by both GC and that dude from the Jets board that the only reason they got there was a WEAK schedule. For us to get that weak schedule, I hope you are prepared for several crap years.... with Hermie I predict 6 - 10 next year.... that would give us the soft schedule to go 10 - 6 and get our asses handed to us in the playoffs in 2007

[Mecca]

Our schedule is kind of soft next year actually.

[grandllama]

Our schedule is kind of soft next year actually.

Of course! It always looks that way.... until the season starts and everybody improves but us...

[milkman]

It has been pointed out here ad nauseum by both GC and that dude from the Jets board that the only reason they got there was a WEAK schedule. For us to get that weak schedule, I hope you are prepared for several crap years.... with Hermie I predict 6 - 10 next year.... that would give us the soft schedule to go 10 - 6 and get our asses handed to us in the playoffs in 2007

You no longer get a schedule based on your performance, except for 2 games.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Champ and the Broncos 28th ranked secondary (IIRC) vs. Carson Palmer and the Bengals= Bombs away.

If they get past the Steelers...

[Hammock Parties]

It has been pointed out here ad nauseum by both GC and that dude from the Jets board that the only reason they got there was a WEAK schedule.

Yep.

In 2001 and 2002 they had 4 wins against teams with winning records.

In 2004 they had 3 wins against winning teams.

[grandllama]

You no longer get a schedule based on your performance, except for 2 games.

Dammit, let me enjoy my ice cream ROFL

[Mecca]

They still won 2 playoff games........I'm sure you'll have something to discredit him on there too.

[Abba-Dabba]

If Herm comes to KC, get ready for a bunch of 7-9, 8-8 finishes, horrible game/clock mgt, conservative gameplans, an emotionally unstable Head Coach whose act will quickly wear on the players.

Carl is giving up draft picks for a coach with a 39-41 career record, a guy who hasn't finished better than 10-6 and is coming off a 4-12 season.

And this all goes back to Carl wanting a crony in place who will agree with every move and decision Peterson makes.


The friends network is getting really old at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

[grandllama]

They still won 2 playoff games........I'm sure you'll have something to discredit him on there too.

The sun shines on every Dog's ass once in awhile...


...errr I got nothing.

[Johnson&Johnson]

Here's why i don't hate or love it.

He's an upgrade to Vermeil. And if he brings along Donnie Henderson, which means we don't have to deal with Gun. Plus I remember tha John Abraham said he'd go wherever Herm went. Didn't the Jets put a franchise tag on him last year? Would he be an UFA in 06?

[Abba-Dabba]

They still won 2 playoff games........I'm sure you'll have something to discredit him on there too.

Whoopdie ****ing doo. 2 playoff wins that means exactly jack shit.

[Hammock Parties]

They still won 2 playoff games........I'm sure you'll have something to discredit him on there too.

Marty won a couple playoff games, too. Big deal.

[milkman]

They still won 2 playoff games........I'm sure you'll have something to discredit him on there too.

One win is when the Clone got outMartyed by the original.

[grandllama]

He's an upgrade to Vermeil.

How?

Plus I remember tha John Abraham said he'd go wherever Herm went. .

Yeah, we remember how many of those Titan linebackers followed Gun...

[Mecca]

I can spin this another way, The only time Herm Edwards as ever finished with a losing record are the seasons he lost Pennington. Most teams would struggle after losing their starting QB.

Let's bust on the guy for winning a couple of playoff games, that's more than our teams done in 13 years........

[1punkyQB]

Whoopdie ****ing doo. 2 playoff wins that means exactly jack shit.
That's two more than we've had since 1993. What other candidates out there can get this team over the hump? Vermeil had a helluva resume and still couldn't get it done. Maybe he should've hung around another year a la Holmgren, who wasn't too popular in Seattle this time last year. If being owned by Belichick is bad, try being owned by Mike Martz.

[tk13]

Yep.

In 2001 and 2002 they had 4 wins against teams with winning records.

In 2004 they had 3 wins against winning teams.
That's the NFL though. Most Super Bowl winners have easy schedules. The Pats the last couple years being the exception to that. But the Bucs before them, the 01 Pats, 00 Ravens, 99 Rams.. and this year's Colts all got to where they were with less than killer schedules.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

WTF?

http://collegeafterhours.com/index.php?id=1767

[grandllama]

Marty won a couple playoff games, too. Big deal.

That's what I can't figure out... by all accounts, Marty probably is going to be available too... if Carl has such a hard on to go back to the days of Martyball, why not bring back the originator? (and reanimate DT, unretire Neil, get Dale away from the crack pipe, bust Bam and Tamarick out of prison... I hear Spiderman is available...etc.... etc... )

[Johnson&Johnson]

How?

Yeah, we remember how many of those Titan linebackers followed Gun...


First of, I guarantee you that Herm will cry 8-10X less than Vermeil.

Second, he will only give a hug to the players that really deserve it.

Third, I am afraid of CP not finding better candidates and hire Al. :shake:

[tk13]

Like the 2002 Bucs... gochiefs goes around here trumpeting that Herm's team only went 4-4 against winning teams that year. If I'm not mistaken, so did the Bucs, and they won the Super Bowl... and 2 of those wins were against Vick and the Falcons, who they own.

[Hammock Parties]

I can spin this another way, The only time Herm Edwards as ever finished with a losing record are the seasons he lost Pennington.


Pennington and Testaverde had almost identical numbers the first year Pennington got hurt.

In fact, Testicle threw only TWO INTERCEPTIONS in seven games.

You can blame this 4-12 season on injuries because DAMN did they get screwed.

[grandllama]

WTF?

http://collegeafterhours.com/index.php?id=1767

That's GC's ex college newspaper editor... (after learning that he just circled her house for several hours and didnt' stop)

[Chiefs Pantalones]

That's GC's ex college newspaper editor... (after learning that he just circled her house for several hours and didnt' stop)
ROFL

Really, though, WTF? Who does that?

[grandllama]

ROFL

Really, though, WTF? Who does that?

Come back to campus sometime, there are some really interesting drugs running around college towns...

[Mecca]

The only thing I'm going to come back to is this. Who in the hell do you guys want? This isn't exactly coaching central this year for the crop available. Herm Edwards is one of the best guys available this year, what do you want?

This team hiring a college coach right now would just be dumb. We have to many veteran players on the team to go that route yet.

[Hammock Parties]

Like the 2002 Bucs... gochiefs goes around here trumpeting that Herm's team only went 4-4 against winning teams that year. If I'm not mistaken, so did the Bucs, and they won the Super Bowl... and 2 of those wins were against Vick and the Falcons, who they own.

So?

The Bucs won three postseason games in convincing fashion (25, 17, and 27 points) that year.

If Herm had accomplished that, I'd be all over his nuts.

[tk13]

2001 Jets were 4-4 against winning teams, as gochiefs like to say.

2001 Patriots... 2-3 against winning teams, won a Super Bowl.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Come back to campus sometime, there are some really interesting drugs running around college towns...

ROFL

I keep laughing. I think I'm on drugs. I keep watching the shit.

[tk13]

So?

The Bucs won three postseason games in convincing fashion (25, 17, and 27 points) that year.

If Herm had accomplished that, I'd be all over his nuts.
I'm just rendering your stat meaningless.

And there was any coach out there who had done what you just said, he wouldn't be available...

[Hammock Parties]

That's GC's ex college newspaper editor... (after learning that he just circled her house for several hours and didnt' stop)

Looks nothing like her.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm just rendering your stat meaningless.

Like hell you did. If my stat was meaningless the Jets would have proven it in the playoffs.

[Mecca]

I'm just rendering your stat meaningless.

And there was any coach out there who had done what you just said, he wouldn't be available...

That's my point, some people on here are acting like there is some superior coaching God available. Well, where is he? I think Herm is about as good as we can do for what's available.

[FloridaMan88]

Another thing to remember about Herm...

He hired Paul Hackett as OC and stuck with him for 4 years.

He hires Hackett AFTER Hackett's debacle in KC and at USC and then sticks by him for 4 years, despite having a punchless offense for most of that time.

Smells like a case of being too loyal to me (Vermeil-Greg Robinson anyone?)

[Demonpenz]

you can stamp shields out for this year.,

[Hammock Parties]

That's the NFL though. Most Super Bowl winners have easy schedules. The Pats the last couple years being the exception to that. But the Bucs before them, the 01 Pats, 00 Ravens, 99 Rams.. and this year's Colts all got to where they were with less than killer schedules.

Sure. Just more proof the Jets weren't that great of a team. If they were so great they'd have been better than 10-6 and won more playoff games.

[Rausch]

The sun shines on every Dog's ass once in awhile...


...errr I got nothing.

Apparently DV has a cat's ass...

[Hammock Parties]

2001 Jets were 4-4 against winning teams, as gochiefs like to say.

2001 Patriots... 2-3 against winning teams, won a Super Bowl.

ROFL

Obviously the Pats were frauds and the Jets were the REAL team.

[grandllama]

The only thing I'm going to come back to is this. Who in the hell do you guys want? This isn't exactly coaching central this year for the crop available. Herm Edwards is one of the best guys available this year, what do you want?

This team hiring a college coach right now would just be dumb. We have to many veteran players on the team to go that route yet.

That, in itself Mecca, is the problem. I do not want Hermie. I however, have no fricking clue who I DO want. I was leaning towards Williams. I do not care for Saunders, but I would take him for a year or two until better prospects open up. Next year under Saunders would just be like granting DV an extension (which I would have been open to as well)...

In all seriousness, I would like to hear who the PLAYERS want as their next coach. That in itself would determine which of the vets hang around and which ones hang up their cleats. This is a vet team. It could (especially the offense) run itself. If CP farks up, we loose our vet leadership.

[tk13]

ROFL

Obviously the Pats were frauds and the Jets were the REAL team.
You're totally missing the point.

[Mecca]

That, in itself Mecca, is the problem. I do not want Hermie. I however, have no fricking clue who I DO want. I was leaning towards Williams. I do not care for Saunders, but I would take him for a year or two until better prospects open up. Next year under Saunders would just be like granting DV an extension (which I would have been open to as well)...

In all seriousness, I would like to hear who the PLAYERS want as their next coach. That in itself would determine which of the vets hang around and which ones hang up their cleats. This is a vet team. It could (especially the offense) run itself. If CP farks up, we loose our vet leadership.

Edwards is a good hire for a vet team, his players love him.

[grandllama]

Looks nothing like her.

Not from the pic that she sent me, Brian, and Phil after we emailed her....

[Hammock Parties]

You're totally missing the point.

Well look at it from a Patriots fan's perspective, before they won any playoff games that year.

"We're 2-3 against winning teams! We're going nowhere!"

*Patriots win Super Bowl*

"DAMN! I was WRONG!"

Herm never did ANYTHING to disprove the notion that the Jets were ever going to go anywhere while he was their head coach.

Now he's going to suddenly make KC awesome?

[Hammock Parties]

Not from the pic that she sent me, Brian, and Phil after we emailed her....

You're full of shit.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Well look at it from a Patriots fan's perspective, before they won any playoff games that year.

"We're 2-3 against winning teams! We're going nowhere!"

*Patriots win Super Bowl*

"DAMN! I was WRONG!"

Herm never did ANYTHING to disprove the notion that the Jets were ever going to go anywhere while he was their head coach.

Now he's going to suddenly make KC awesome?

Herm Edwards, Al Saunders, Vince Lombardi, it won't make a difference until we upgrade the talent on D, IMO.

[Rausch]

Herm never did ANYTHING to disprove the notion that the Jets were ever going to go anywhere while he was their head coach.

Now he's going to suddenly make KC awesome?

Trade Trent, LJ, and Gonzo to the Jets and see how many playoff wins they have.

I'd bet more than KC in the last 15 years...

[1punkyQB]

The players wanted Gunther as HC prior to Vermeil, so I'm not sure I trust their judgment. As far as other alternatives, maybe Art Shell, who had two playoff wins and a winning record as a HC.

[grandllama]

You're full of shit.

Nah, ask END or Phobs... you were banned at the time under your gothic name... we pulled up one of the old posts before it was deleted and emailed her...

[luv]

Trade Trent, LJ, and Gonzo to the Jets and see how many playoff wins they have.

Let's not.

[Mecca]

I think gochiefs has unrealistic expectations of what we're going to get as a headcoach........

[Hammock Parties]

Trade Trent, LJ, and Gonzo to the Jets and see how many playoff wins they have.

I'd bet more than KC in the last 15 years...

And give us three of their defensive players and we'd have a couple wins in the playoffs, too.

[Johnson&Johnson]

Herm Edwards, Al Saunders, Vince Lombardi, it won't make a difference until we upgrade the talent on D, IMO.

Agreed! Looking forward to see who King Carl selects with the 20th pick in April's draft. If there's a great DT or DE prospect. I think we're one more impact player away from making this D really good.


Assuming...
Siavii comes into his own like Kawika did in 2005.
Simms stays healthy camp thru post-season.
DJ becomes a solid veteran and is used for his true gift - speed

[grandllama]

The players wanted Gunther as HC prior to Vermeil, so I'm not sure I trust their judgment. As far as other alternatives, maybe Art Shell, who had two playoff wins and a winning record as a HC.

You know, I could probably go for that ex raider before Hermie...

[milkman]

Trade Trent, LJ, and Gonzo to the Jets and see how many playoff wins they have.

I'd bet more than KC in the last 15 years...

Are you going to trade some playoff balls to Herm in the deal?

[tk13]

Well look at it from a Patriots fan's perspective, before they won any playoff games that year.

"We're 2-3 against winning teams! We're going nowhere!"

*Patriots win Super Bowl*

"DAMN! I was WRONG!"

Herm never did ANYTHING to disprove the notion that the Jets were ever going to go anywhere while he was their head coach.

Now he's going to suddenly make KC awesome?
Look, we can sit there and hash this out all you want.

There is NO ONE available we can hire where you can for a matter of fact say they WILL take us to the promised land. All you can do is look at the team we have, the personality and history of the coach, and make an assessment.

I think this is half of the problem with these arguments, I'm sitting here on the defensive trying to prove Herm is perfect, which he's not, while you get to be offensive and pick at flaws without offering any better solution.

[Rausch]

And give us three of their defensive players and we'd have a couple wins in the playoffs, too.

I'd bet they'd have been spectacular under Grob or Schotty's lil bro...

[Mecca]

You know, I could probably go for that ex raider before Hermie...

I'm beginning to wonder about you......

[Hammock Parties]

I think gochiefs has unrealistic expectations of what we're going to get as a headcoach........

I'd take Al Saunders sooner than I'd take Germ Edwards.

[Mecca]

Some people just like to bitch to bitch.......how many if you can come up with a better canidate than Herman Edwards?

[Rausch]

I'd take Al Saunders sooner than I'd take Germ Edwards.

You'll take what Peterson hires, and you'll be here posting about it...

[Mecca]

I'd take Al Saunders sooner than I'd take Germ Edwards.

Oh yea? Let me pull a you...........How many playoff games has he won?

[Hammock Parties]

Look, we can sit there and hash this out all you want.

There is NO ONE available we can hire where you can for a matter of fact say they WILL take us to the promised land. All you can do is look at the team we have, the personality and history of the coach, and make an assessment.

I think this is half of the problem with these arguments, I'm sitting here on the defensive trying to prove Herm is perfect, which he's not, while you get to be offensive and pick at flaws without offering any better solution.

Sorry but we know what Herm is.

Some of the other candidates have the potential to be much, much more.

[tk13]

I think gochiefs has unrealistic expectations of what we're going to get as a headcoach........
Oh yeah he's way out there. I said this earlier. There is no such thing as the perfect coach. No one we hire is going to be without flaws. We can either make suggestions to who we think might be best, or sit here and be an armchair QB and pick apart every possible option... gochiefs has chosen the latter and will be unhappy with just about anybody we choose, and he is not alone in doing that. And he has the power to do so, whatever gets his rocks off....

[milkman]

Look, we can sit there and hash this out all you want.

There is NO ONE available we can hire where you can for a matter of fact say they WILL take us to the promised land. All you can do is look at the team we have, the personality and history of the coach, and make an assessment.

I think this is half of the problem with these arguments, I'm sitting here on the defensive trying to prove Herm is perfect, which he's not, while you get to be offensive and pick at flaws without offering any better solution.

The problem is you are trying to defend Hermpon when all he has ever proven is that he doesn't have any nads when he gets into the playoffs.

[tk13]

Sorry but we know what Herm is.

Some of the other candidates have the potential to be much, much more.
How do you KNOW Herm does not have the potential to be much more?

[Rausch]

Sorry but we know what Herm is.

Some of the other candidates have the potential to be much, much more.

This should be good....

[grandllama]

You'll take what Peterson hires, and you'll be here posting about it...

And that, undeniably, is the sad fact of life as a Chief's fan.

[milkman]

Oh yea? Let me pull a you...........How many playoff games has he won?

None.
But then he hasn't lost any either, so we haven't any evidence to show he's left his balls in his wife's purse.

[Hammock Parties]

How do you KNOW Herm does not have the potential to be much more?

It's clear to most of us that Germ has already fulfilled his potential. He's 52.

[tk13]

The problem is you are trying to defend Hermpon when all he has ever proven is that he doesn't have any nads when he gets into the playoffs.
Hey, I said this in the other thread. 90% of the NFL is "conservative" and old school. If you want a guy to take a bunch of chances, Al Saunders is definitely your guy.

But most guys we are going to hire and going to be far more conservative in nature than what we've seen the last 5 years. That was my biggest selling point for Al Saunders when we were discussing him. If you don't want him, then you're pretty much voting to go back to the "normal" NFL, with teams like the Jaguars, Steelers, Giants, Panthers, etc, etc... running the football/defense/minimizing your mistakes.

[grandllama]

I'm beginning to wonder about you......

Me too ROFL

But if we were here discussing Art Shell vs. Hermie... I would be in the affirmative for Art.... Ex Raiders have a way of coming here and just twisting the knife a little deeper into Mr. Burn's heart.

[Johnson&Johnson]

Stop bitching guys.

As long as we have endured during King Carl's tenure. Look on th bright side... he's quoted that this is his last run. I just look forward to SB after the 2009 season.

[grandllama]

It's clear to most of us that Germ has already fulfilled his potential. He's 52.

Ok, lost me on that one GC... 52 in coaching years is like 25 in playing years...

[Rausch]

And that, undeniably, is the sad fact of life as a Chief's fan.

God forbid we ever trust the Chiefs front office.

Hell, if they'd given us a player like a Will Shields, James Hasty, Tony Gonzales, Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Jared Allen, Marc Collins, or D. Johnson I could understand.

But they haven't...

[Mecca]

The problem is you are trying to defend Hermpon when all he has ever proven is that he doesn't have any nads when he gets into the playoffs.

Herm looked like he had balls to me when he was wiping the floor with the Colts........

[luv]

It's clear to most of us that Germ has already fulfilled his potential. He's 52.
And how old was DV when he retired? At 52, he's probably got 10 good years left.

[Rausch]

Me too ROFL

But if we were here discussing Art Shell vs. Hermie... .

Honestly, I like Shell.

I think it's a ****ing crime the guy hasn't gotten more opportunities...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

At 52, he's probably got 10 good years left.

That's what they said about Skip, but he's still truckin'.

[grandllama]

God forbid we ever trust the Chiefs front office.

Hell, if they'd given us a player like a Will Shields, James Hasty, Tony Gonzales, Joe Montana, Marcus Allen, Willie Roaf, Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Jared Allen, Marc Collins, or D. Johnson I could understand.

But they haven't...

Damn Brad...

There are three on that list I don't agree with... but we have had some amazine talent here... but explain.... why, with all that talent, haven't we been to the big dance....

Most here would blame the coaches... and coaches are the product of... drumroll... the front office.

[grandllama]

Honestly, I like Shell.

I think it's a ****ing crime the guy hasn't gotten more opportunities...

Always have liked the big guy... wish he would have stuck around here longer... is he still working in the NFL offices?

[milkman]

Hey, I said this in the other thread. 90% of the NFL is "conservative" and old school. If you want a guy to take a bunch of chances, Al Saunders is definitely your guy.

But most guys we are going to hire and going to be far more conservative in nature than what we've seen the last 5 years. That was my biggest selling point for Al Saunders when we were discussing him. If you don't want him, then you're pretty much voting to go back to the "normal" NFL, with teams like the Jaguars, Steelers, Giants, Panthers, etc, etc... running the football/defense/minimizing your mistakes.

I am in Al's camp.

But I always point to a couple of examples when I talk about this.

Brian Billick, with Trent Difer at QB, tight game late,against the Raiders team backed up on thier own 8(?0.

1st down, he has Dilfer passing, which turns into a 92 yard TD to Shannon Sharpe.

Bill Bellichick, with about a minute left in the SB against the Rams, tied with a QB that came off the bench late in the season, rather than take a knee and play for OT, he plays to set up a FG that wins the game.

That's the kind of coach I want.

And Hermie is as far removed as a coach can get.

[Hammock Parties]

This guy TOOK A KNEE AND LOST TWO YARDS on third down before a game winning field goal attempt... :shake:

[milkman]

Herm looked like he had balls to me when he was wiping the floor with the Colts........

He got out to a big lead, and the Colts weren't yet a an annual pretender.

[Rausch]

Most here would blame the coaches... and coaches are the product of... drumroll... the front office.

Valid point.

But then I'd have to ask: do you see us repeating the same old mistakes or tying out new things (as far as coaches?)

[Hammock Parties]

You want more?

He ran up the middle on the two plays before that idiotic call.

[grandllama]

Valid point.

But then I'd have to ask: do you see us repeating the same old mistakes or tying out new things (as far as coaches?)

with Hermie, I believe we are searching for the past (go read the JoPo article that TK13 posted)....

Carl gets Martyball back without having to deal with Marty.

I would love for us to try something new... just doesn't seem to be in the cards as long as Carl is GM

[luv]

with Hermie, I believe we are searching for the past (go read the JoPo article that TK13 posted)....

Carl gets Martyball back without having to deal with Marty.

I would love for us to try something new... just doesn't seem to be in the cards as long as Carl is GM
Your avatar is mesmerizing.

[grandllama]

Your avatar is mesmerizing.

you should see me dance in person

[Rausch]

I would love for us to try something new... just doesn't seem to be in the cards as long as Carl is GM

Good or bad, DV was ****ing LIGHT YEARS apart from Marty.

Completely different...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Winning be damned, Carl just wants a friend to spend his time with these last 4 years.

[luv]

you should see me dance in person
Will you wear that black dress?

Honestly, not trying to hijack the thread. Just throwing in a sidebar.

[grandllama]

Good or bad, DV was ****ing LIGHT YEARS apart from Marty.

Completely different...

Agreed, and I thought about that when I was posting... however, Hermie seems to be a step back to the past when it truly seems there are more than DV - Corryell and Martyball based schemes and disciples available

[grandllama]

Will you wear that black dress?

Honestly, not trying to hijack the thread. Just throwing in a sidebar.

when its live, its nude, baby....

[luv]

Winning be damned, Carl just wants a friend to spend his time with these last 4 years.
My supervisor and I just went through the interviewing process. We are interviewing for two other assistant supervisor positions. We did everything to try to keep our personal feelings towards people out of it. As long as we all get along and have the same goal, we'll be good. Too bad that isn't how Carl will do things.

[luv]

when its live, its nude, baby....
:hmmm:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

:hmmm:

Don't think, get naked.

[grandllama]

Don't think, get naked.

'zactly

[luv]

Don't think, get naked.
I would reply further, but I don't want to get the thread off track. Like I said, I'm not here to hijack. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!

[Hammock Parties]

Let me put it this way, Germites...

Remember two years ago against Oakland?

It was 4th and 14, and the game was tied at 24. We were in long field goal range, just outside of Morten Andersen's range.

The Chiefs went for it, got it, and kicked the game winner.

Germ Edwards would have punted the ball in that situation.

[1punkyQB]

It was 4th and 14, and the game was tied at 24....
Herm's teams probably could afford to punt (much better on D) and would be far less likely to pick that one up on offense, so it's hard to know what he would do given different personnel. Pennington can only throw about 10 yards when healthy, so I doubt they'd pick it up.

[tk13]

Let me put it this way, Germites...

Remember two years ago against Oakland?

It was 4th and 14, and the game was tied at 24. We were in long field goal range, just outside of Morten Andersen's range.

The Chiefs went for it, got it, and kicked the game winner.

Germ Edwards would have punted the ball in that situation.
So would most NFL coaches.

This is what I'm saying. I am not saying Herm is going to be as aggressive, he's not... but we've been spoiled the last 5 years. Every coach we hire that's not named Al Saunders is going to be a big step down in aggressiveness in situations like that. Even Belichick would've punted and let his defense do the work there.

That's one of the reasons I've defended Al around here, because he's the only guy that's gonna keep that aggressiveness we all want to see and I think fans will miss that when it's gone. Anybody else we hire is going to get ripped for "Martyball" at some point, because most coaches play it by the book in punt/FG situations. Just like when we went for the last play TD against Oakland this year, people treated that like we'd discovered a new country or something. "Whoa... they... went for it..."

[Hammock Parties]

I'm hoping Trent Green can carry that legacy on. Sort of like Manning does in Indy.

[Rausch]

Germ Edwards would have punted the ball in that situation.

So did DV, 9 out of 10 ****ing times.

DV put our shat defense back on the field in sure-to-lose situations. EVERY ****ING TIME.

[Hammock Parties]

So did DV, 9 out of 10 ****ing times.

DV put our shat defense back on the field in sure-to-lose situations. EVERY ****ING TIME.

As htismaqe says....> bad ≠ good

[Wallcrawler]

Out of the candidates available, Id rather have Herman Edwards. He took a noodle armed QB and went to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years with 2 playoff wins. More than any Chiefs coach can say for the last 13 years.


Im so sick of Al Saunders' cutesy f'in playcalling that he cannot be shown the door fast enough. Saunders fans, if it werent for your savior's colossal playcalling f-ups against Philadelphia AT HOME, we wouldnt have surrendered the biggest comeback in franchise history. Hey, if the "genius" couldve mustered up more than 3 goddamn points against the superpower that is the mighty, night unstoppable Buffalo Bills :rolleyes: , we likely win that game too. Or how about if your savior knew when to attack the weak point of an opponent? San Diego had the #2 rush defense and the #29 pass defense, and Al does not call a downfield pass for the entire first half out in SD. Oh sure, someone went up to the box and helped him wrench his head from his ass, and then he tried to get it done in the second half, but by that time it was far too late.

So dont try to come in here pointing out playcalling flaws in another coaching candidate. If it werent for Al Saunders getting bored with his job and not doing what he was supposed to be doing, the Chiefs would have won at least one, if not all three of the aforementioned games and they would be in the playoffs right now. Al Saunders, dont let the door hit you where the good lord split you motherf***er. See your ass later.

Moreover, the last time Al Saunders was a head coach, it was a colossal disaster. In his first job as head coach, Herm Edwards took over a bad Jets team and took them to the playoffs 3/5 years. In Al Saunders first job as HC, he took over a bad Chargers team and made them worse.

Herm Edwards isnt a perfect coach, but he isnt Al Saunders or Mike Martz either. Compared to the other coaches available, in my opinion he is the best choice.

[Hammock Parties]

Herm Edwards isnt a perfect coach, but he isnt Al Saunders or Mike Martz either. Compared to the other coaches available, in my opinion he is the best choice.

The fact that Jets fans want him gone, almost across the board, is proof enough that he's not the right man for the job.

Neither is Saunders.

[Abba-Dabba]

The fact that Jets fans want him gone, almost across the board, is proof enough that he's not the right man for the job.

Neither is Saunders.


Hey, hey, hey now.

Why you talking all that sense? Don't you know one man's trash is another man's treasure... ;)

Simple fact of the matter is, that Carl doesn't have the balls to actually go out and search for a new coach. He is willing every time to turn to a friend or someone tied to the program of years past. He too deeply involved in the friends network theory. There are no real friends in a performance based business. Consider this, it's the easy way out without him having to do his actual job IMO. Which is is him providing the best product he possibly can. And I don't see him doing that . I see him jumping, and I mean literally jumping at Herman Edwards like their is a pack of teams after the guy. Nobody wants Herman. It's looks like his own team doesn't want him.

Why doesn't Carl interview all the prospective coaches out there? Herman isn't going anywhere. I just don't see the rush to use draft picks for a coach who is on nobody elses radar, without looking at the other options first.

[Wallcrawler]

The fact that Jets fans want him gone, almost across the board, is proof enough that he's not the right man for the job.

Neither is Saunders.


New York fans are fickle. They want to win right now, no matter what, regardless of whether or not you have 4 QBs on the injured list and half your starters on IR.

Sorry, but I look at the things that Edwards has done with the Jets and then I immediately think about what would happen if Edwards would have had the offense/players that the Chiefs have, combined with his knowledge of defense.

I really dont see how you can forsee a catastrophic failure. Chiefs fans havent seen a playoff win in 13 years. I was fourteen years old the last time it happened. This guy has taken teams to the playoffs and won games recently.


As for the whole Martyball/Play not to lose stuff, it really doesnt matter in the end. I can never figure this stuff out.

Say Herm puts us in position for a realistic field goal try and Tynes blows the kick and the Chiefs lose. Its no different than if Al Saunders is the coach calls some dumb shit on 3rd and 1 with L.J. in the backfield and calls a pass or some other ill advised play that turns the ball over and we lose.

A loss is a loss. Doesnt really matter how you lost it. Ultimately, Edwards did have his team in position to win the game. That is what the coach's job is. Put the team in position to win. He did that. It just didnt happen. The team didnt execute. Al Saunders (who many want retained) is aggressive to a fault and is prone to overthink the simplest things. Hey, why not pound Johnson for one yard, get the first, then go back to passing? He goes for the dumbest stuff at the worst possible time.

Had the field goal in that Jets playoff game been good, and the Jets advance, there is no negative discussion about the coaching. But when the players cant execute and you lose, people have to have something to bitch about and point fingers.


Basicly the way I see it is that in KC, Herman Edwards has a helluva lot more to work with than he did with the Jets. If he was successful with the Jets, how could he not be successful here. Better team, better fans, better situation. Plus Im just sick of Al Saunders and his bullshit.

[Hammock Parties]

Hey, hey, hey now.

Why you talking all that sense? Don't you know one man's trash is another man's treasure... ;)

Simple fact of the matter is, that Carl doesn't have the balls to actually go out and search for a new coach. He is willing every time to turn to a friend or someone tied to the program of years past. He too deeply involved in the friends network theory. There are no real friends in a performance based business. Consider this, it's the easy way out without him having to do his actual job IMO. Which is is him providing the best product he possibly can. And I don't see him doing that . I see him jumping, and I mean literally jumping at Herman Edwards like their is a pack of teams after the guy. Nobody wants Herman. It's looks like his own team doesn't want him.

Why doesn't Carl interview all the prospective coaches out there? Herman isn't going anywhere. I just don't see the rush to use draft picks for a coach who is on nobody elses radar, without looking at the other options first.

Boy, you nailed it.

This is just pathetic. I hope Clark Hunt restores honor to this franchise.

[Hammock Parties]

Hey, why not pound Johnson for one yard, get the first, then go back to passing?

How many games have you watched?

The Chiefs run on 3rd and 1, 3rd and 2, 4th and 1 over 90 percent of the time, if not all the time. I certainly can't think of an example where they passed it on 3rd and 1 off the top of my head.


Basicly the way I see it is that in KC, Herman Edwards has a helluva lot more to work with than he did with the Jets.

Not really. The offensive talent in New York was misused horrible. Santana Moss was benched in favor of CURTIS CONWAY?

It's no coincidence that Moss is having his best season now that he finally got away from Germ Edwards.

[Wallcrawler]

How many games have you watched?

The Chiefs run on 3rd and 1, 3rd and 2, 4th and 1 over 90 percent of the time, if not all the time. I certainly can't think of an example where they passed it on 3rd and 1 off the top of my head.

I know you dont mean to tell me that in the 5 years that Saunders has been here that you cant remember a single time where Saunders overlooked Holmes or Johnson in the backfield in favor of passing. Put the last 9 games or so aside, and look over the span of his time here. It happened all the f'in time.

Im aware you dont like Herm Edwards, but lets not play dumb and act like Saunders hasnt shoved his head up his ass on several occaisions, choosing to go all out aggressive over common sense shall we?


Not really. The offensive talent in New York was misused horrible. Santana Moss was benched in favor of CURTIS CONWAY?

It's no coincidence that Moss is having his best season now that he finally got away from Germ Edwards.

If I recall, Edwards wasnt the guy throwing the ball. Kinda hard to have success when your QB can only throw the ball 15 yards. Pennington is the biggest noodle arm in the league. Moss is a speed receiver, Conway was a possession receiver who was able to fight and go up for the ball with size and physical ability. Moss couldnt do that. It just looked to me like Herm was trying to do what he could to help the team. Why play a speed guy over a possession guy when your starting QB cant get him the ball, and you dont have a better QB?

Makes no sense.

[Abba-Dabba]

Im so sick of Al Saunders' cutesy f'in playcalling that he cannot be shown the door fast enough. Saunders fans, if it werent for your savior's colossal playcalling f-ups against Philadelphia AT HOME, we wouldnt have surrendered the biggest comeback in franchise history. Hey, if the "genius" couldve mustered up more than 3 goddamn points against the superpower that is the mighty, night unstoppable Buffalo Bills :rolleyes: , we likely win that game too. Or how about if your savior knew when to attack the weak point of an opponent? San Diego had the #2 rush defense and the #29 pass defense, and Al does not call a downfield pass for the entire first half out in SD. Oh sure, someone went up to the box and helped him wrench his head from his ass, and then he tried to get it done in the second half, but by that time it was far too late.

So dont try to come in here pointing out playcalling flaws in another coaching candidate. If it werent for Al Saunders getting bored with his job and not doing what he was supposed to be doing, the Chiefs would have won at least one, if not all three of the aforementioned games and they would be in the playoffs right now. Al Saunders, dont let the door hit you where the good lord split you motherf***er. See your ass later.

Moreover, the last time Al Saunders was a head coach, it was a colossal disaster. In his first job as head coach, Herm Edwards took over a bad Jets team and took them to the playoffs 3/5 years. In Al Saunders first job as HC, he took over a bad Chargers team and made them worse.


Saunders did all the cutesy crap and was still able to provide a high quality product. Blaming Saunders for the Chiefs not being in the playoffs is overlooking the obvious. You ever think for once maybe, just maybe, the defense made a few stops in the Philly game, or the Bills with b/u QB they would be in the playoffs?

Saunders was the least of the Chiefs problems.

[Wallcrawler]

Saunders did all the cutesy crap and was still able to provide a high quality product. Blaming Saunders for the Chiefs not being in the playoffs is overlooking the obvious. You ever think for once maybe, just maybe, the defense made a few stops in the Philly game,


Hey. You even watch that game? Saunders was going 3 and out like it was what he was supposed to be doing. You cant put the defense on the field time after time with no rest and expect to win. Priest holmes had 65 yards rushing and 2 scores in the first QUARTER. Saunders elects to pass for the rest of the game.

Explain that one.


or the Bills with b/u QB they would be in the playoffs?

Against the Bills, the Defense allowed 14 points. Fourteen. If you cant win a game where your defense only allows 2 scores, the fault does NOT lie with the defense.



Saunders was the least of the Chiefs problems.

Not according to the examples youre giving.

[Hammock Parties]

I know you dont mean to tell me that in the 5 years that Saunders has been here that you cant remember a single time where Saunders overlooked Holmes or Johnson in the backfield in favor of passing. Put the last 9 games or so aside, and look over the span of his time here. It happened all the f'in time.

It did, huh? Show me some examples when we only needed ONE YARD, because I sure don't remember any. 3rd and 1...we almost ALWAYS run it.

Are you one of these people that vilify Al Saunders while singing Gunther's praises? I sure hope not.



It just looked to me like Herm was trying to do what he could to help the team. Why play a speed guy over a possession guy when your starting QB cant get him the ball, and you dont have a better QB?


As soon as the Jets put Moss back in the lineup...he started producing. He had 1100 yards and 10 TDs in 12 games.

ZERO excuse for benching him in favor of old and slow Curtis Conway.

[trndobrd]

The first game of the season concerns me more than anything. The Jets came out against the Cheifs completely flat and unprepared. Sure, opening day at Arrowhead is tough on any visiting opponent, but the Jets just looked befuddled, listless and completely unprepared for an NFL game. That falls directly on the head coach.

[Wallcrawler]

It did, huh? Show me some examples when we only needed ONE YARD, because I sure don't remember any. 3rd and 1...we almost ALWAYS run it.

Dude, you got 5 seasons worth of games to look over. 3rd and short with the result of the next play being a dropped/deflected/intercepted pass happened more times than I care to remember. If you can sit there and tell me you never saw it happen, youre either blind, refusing to acknowledge it, or retarded. You can decide which of the three you are. One huge example that cost the chiefs the game was the good ol Texans game on the 2 yard line. You got Holmes and the best line in the league, but he chose to pass. Holmes was SHREDDING the Texans that day. The pass got picked, returned for a score, and the game went down the toilet from there.

Are you one of these people that vilify Al Saunders while singing Gunther's praises? I sure hope not.

I havent mentioned Gunther a single time. Gunther calls defense, not offense. Its not his decision to run or pass on 3rd and short. Its not his decision to exclude Tony Gonzalez from the redzone offense. Its not his decision to alienate and anger the future of the Chiefs at Running Back. Its not his decision to call double fake reverse screens that never work.

Its his decision to go out and get a 51 million dollar cornerback in Patrick Surtain and then put Dexter Mcleon on the number one receiver. However, thats neither here nor there. Gun is not a candidate for HC, Al Saunders is. In a separate thread I mention how nice it would be if the rumor were true that Herm Edwards would likely bring Donnie Henderson with him to KC.




As soon as the Jets put Moss back in the lineup...he started producing. He had 1100 yards and 10 TDs in 12 games.

ZERO excuse for benching him in favor of old and slow Curtis Conway.

Well, neither of us were there at the time so neither of us know for sure, but it looks to me from my point of view, that the benching gave ol Santana some time to reflect on his lack of performance, and when given the chance, he took advantage. Its not uncommon for a coach to bench a guy and then his performance step up when given another shot.

(Gun benched Jared Allen at the beginning of the year for his screwup in the preseason, and then Allen had a great year.)

[Hammock Parties]

Ok, see I was talking about ONE YARD. ONE. That was what your original post addressed.

Why not pound Johnson for one yard, get the first

Why don't you admit you're wrong since you can't provide an example?

And as for the Santana Moss thing, you're wrong again.

As a Jets fan said:

Santana Moss starts the year buried behind Wayne Chrebet and Coles-replacement Curtis Conway. No amount of dropped balls gets Conway out of the starting lineup. Only an injury. Once he was finally given the chance, Moss explodes like we all hoped he would be when we traded up to draft him two years earlier, for 1100 yards & 10 TD’s despite only starting 12 games. Numbers not to be approached again until traded away from Edwards.


Alot of people here didn't like Dick Vermeil, but I don't see them coming out in DROVES celebrating his departure.

Edwards is a lame-duck head coach. He's only being hired because he's one of Carl's buddies.

[siberian khatru]

Saunders did all the cutesy crap and was still able to provide a high quality product. Blaming Saunders for the Chiefs not being in the playoffs is overlooking the obvious. You ever think for once maybe, just maybe, the defense made a few stops in the Philly game, or the Bills with b/u QB they would be in the playoffs?

Saunders was the least of the Chiefs problems.

Indeed.

Again, as intense fans who scrutinize every play, we remember every mistake, magnify every flaw. You can do that with every team, even SB champs. That's why guys like Parcells and Belichick are never happy even when they win. They always see mistakes they want to correct.

Plus, the Chiefs' D greatly magnified the need for the O to be perfect. Not many teams face that kind of pressure.

Al screws up sometimes. I rail against him for stuff. But you must admit that if you step back and look at the big picture, he orchestrated one of the top offenses in the NFL for several seasons. He did his job better than most folks on the Chiefs.

[the Talking Can]

Edwards is a lame-duck head coach. He's only being hired because he's one of Carl's buddies.

sadly, this seems more and more the truth...

[Wallcrawler]

Ok, see I was talking about ONE YARD. ONE. That was what your original post addressed.

Youre right. I should have said third and short, which is what I meant to say.


Why don't you admit you're wrong since you can't provide an example?

There are plenty of examples. I gave you a perfect one from the Texans game. There have been plenty of times on third and short where the Chiefs passed the ball and had it go incomplete or get picked off, while I shake my head and wonder what he has against Priest Holmes and the O-line. If you do a bit of checking, Im sure you can find numerous threads with people questioning that very thing.

Whatever though, clearly you refuse to see it any other way, and thats fine.

And as for the Santana Moss thing, you're wrong again.

As a Jets fan said:

Well, I dont follow the jets. I was only going based on the information I got from your posts. I dont know what happened in that situation, so I dont really have an opinion on it.


Alot of people here didn't like Dick Vermeil, but I don't see them coming out in DROVES celebrating his departure.

I dont see anyone celebrating Edwards' departure, considering he hasnt left yet.

Edwards is a lame-duck head coach. He's only being hired because he's one of Carl's buddies.

Yeah, going to the playoffs three out of five years with two postseason wins with an average Jets team, anyone could do that. He's a real jackass, that Herman Edwards.... a real lame duck. :rolleyes:

Funny thing though, I dont remember Vermiel winning any playoff games the past 5 years.....what does that make him? Yet people wanted him to stay, and still yet many people want to keep his understudy Al Saunders for more of the same?

Strange manner of thinking, but youre entitled I guess.

[StcChief]

Don't want to give up much for Edwards. 3-4 DP this year and next year 4-5 dp.

would rather have Saunders

[Hammock Parties]

Crawler...

THIRD AND ONE. I repeat. THIRD AND ONE.

The Chiefs RAN THE BALL the MAJORITY of the time on THIRD AND ONE.

That is a FACT. And you are WRONG.



Go to a Jets board. They are happy as hell for the most part.

[Inspector]

Herm was not on my short list but if he gets the job I guess I'll have to accept it.

I mean, I aint gonna go root for the ****ing lambs because of it.

I still think it would be a more "interesting" and possible succesful season with Shell.

[kpic]

Things I have learned from this thread:

1. I agree with everything Tk13 has said and that is pretty much how I feel.

2. I apparently browse ChiefsPlanet too much as each time I watch "The Office" I think that guy is Tk13 and not the other way round'

[Chiefnj]

People are going to find more flaws in the Chiefs offense in one game than they did with Saunders for an entire season.

Who else did Carl interview? Saunders and maybe Butch Davis? He had to interview Saunders as a PR move, but other than that - Butch Davis? Shouldn't he have at least entertained a few coordinators? The good ole boy network is alive and well. I look forward to Kurt Schottenheimer being the head coach in 2010.

All I can say is - at least it isn't Martz, Haslett, Tice or Davis.

Prediction - If indeed Edwards is the next coach, KC fans will drink up Edwards' press conference like cool-aid at a Jim Jones event. Just like people did with Gunther when he was first named head coach. Lots of fire and brimstone, but when the game is on the line - watch out.

[Hammock Parties]

KC fans will drink up Edwards' press conference like cool-aid at a Jim Jones event. Just like people did with Gunther when he was first named head coach. Lots of fire and brimstone.

I don't remember Gunther flying off the handle at innocent questions. He was always fairly positive and courteous.

[MOhillbilly]

i get the feeling that Herm will get a look at LJ and squander the rest of the offense.

[Lbedrock1]

I dont care who the HC is as long as they get a OC that runs a offense that Trent can run and we keep GUN. I believe in GUN that this year will be the year that we get back the D we have longed for. If they have to learn a new D we will have the same problem we have had the last 2 years.

[MOhillbilly]

I dont care who the HC is as long as they get a OC that runs a offense that Trent can run and we keep GUN. I believe in GUN that this year will be the year that we get back the D we have longed for. If they have to learn a new D we will have the same problem we have had the last 2 years.

I can see Gunther staying but i dont see Saunders hanging around.
And to be honest i would like to see what Gunther could do IF he gets his own staff & KC tweaks some player personel on the D line.

But if Edwards dots his I and crosses his T so to speak, imo you could see a mass exodus of players who might have stayed onemore year if Saunders were HC.

[siberian khatru]

Look, we can sit there and hash this out all you want.

There is NO ONE available we can hire where you can for a matter of fact say they WILL take us to the promised land. All you can do is look at the team we have, the personality and history of the coach, and make an assessment.

I think this is half of the problem with these arguments, I'm sitting here on the defensive trying to prove Herm is perfect, which he's not, while you get to be offensive and pick at flaws without offering any better solution.

Woo-hoo!

:clap:

[htismaqe]

I don't love it or hate it necessarily.

For one, I've already said: I was so ready to see Vermeil leave, I'll be ok with just about anybody.

2 things that endear me to Herm, despite his shortcomings:

1) Carl isn't stupid. He may be longing for the days of Marty, but he's not gonna let ANYBODY just scrap this offense when he knows full well it was THE missing ingredient during the Marty years.

2) Herm will likely bring Donnie Henderson, which means Gunther = gone.

[Brock]

Gunther = gone.

I doubt it. I suspect Gunther has a Carl's Lifetime job in KC.

To put it another way, Carl's getting the band back together, dude!

[Mr. Kotter]

.... Herm will likely bring Donnie Henderson, which means Gunther = gone.

Jets websites seem to think Henderson will be the favorite to replace Edwards.... :hmmm:

[FringeNC]

sadly, this seems more and more the truth...

And we are giving draft picks for no other reason than Terry Bradway is Carl's buddy, so Terry can look good to the owner.

Herm is gone. There is no way the Jets were going to keep Herm if they would part with him for mid-round draft picks. Yet Carl gives the Jets our picks.

[siberian khatru]

I don't love it or hate it necessarily.



Same here.

I'm not thrilled about giving up draft picks for a guy who hasn't really coached that long or accomplished a whole lot. But as I said yesterday, record-wise and experience-wise, Gruden's first 4 years were similar to Herm's, and Tampa bet the freakin' house on him -- and won, big-time and immediately.

Herm's gonna be the coach. I'm gonna have to live with it. He comes to me with a clean slate. KC is a different team and situation than the Jets. I hope Carl/Herm find a way to maintain the offensive production, improve the D and get us to a Super Bowl. I give them 5 years, max (read the sig). If they don't get it done by then, I'll turn on them like a rabid cornered porcupine in heat.

[htismaqe]

Same here.

I'm not thrilled about giving up draft picks for a guy who hasn't really coached that long or accomplished a whole lot. But as I said yesterday, record-wise and experience-wise, Gruden's first 4 years were similar to Herm's, and Tampa bet the freakin' house on him -- and won, big-time and immediately.

Herm's gonna be the coach. I'm gonna have to live with it. He comes to me with a clean slate. KC is a different team and situation than the Jets. I hope Carl/Herm find a way to maintain the offensive production, improve the D and get us to a Super Bowl. I give them 5 years, max (read the sig). If they don't get it done by then, I'll turn on them like a rabid cornered porcupine in heat.

Exactly how I feel.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Iowanian]

I'll go on record.

I don't want Herm Edwards in KC...ESPECIALLY at the cost of valuable draft picks, that would be better used to get Young players to replace aging vets on the Oline among others.

I've already seen a decade of martyball....and thats what Ewards brings too, not to mention shitty clock management.

If he's the coach, I'll not jump ship, because I still love my bad girlfriend.

This just feels like it has really bad mojo to me for whatever reason.

[MOhillbilly]

Same here.

I'm not thrilled about giving up draft picks for a guy who hasn't really coached that long or accomplished a whole lot. But as I said yesterday, record-wise and experience-wise, Gruden's first 4 years were similar to Herm's, and Tampa bet the freakin' house on him -- and won, big-time and immediately.

Herm's gonna be the coach. I'm gonna have to live with it. He comes to me with a clean slate. KC is a different team and situation than the Jets. I hope Carl/Herm find a way to maintain the offensive production, improve the D and get us to a Super Bowl. I give them 5 years, max (read the sig). If they don't get it done by then, I'll turn on them like a rabid cornered porcupine in heat.


Interesting take. I could live w/ that.
But do you think Edwards will get a 5 year deal? & whats Mr.Petersons contract? Ive heard he is almost in his 2nd year of a 4 year deal then read The Hunts gave him a big extension.
alittle clarity please.

[siberian khatru]

But do you think Edwards will get a 5 year deal? & whats Mr.Petersons contract?

Re: Edwards -- I don't know. Re: Peterson -- I don't know because I'm bad at remembering that kind of stuff.

I'm just saying, 5 years is ample time to get a team to the Super Bowl.

[Tinlar]

I'm one of those odd people that don’t mind seeing a few draft picks given up for a known commodity. Most drafted players, even those taken in the first round, never amount to anything above average in any reasonable amount of time. Yes I know there are some that exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. I and my brother just had a long phone discussion about Vince Young, who stands a good chance to be the number 1 overall pick if he goes, and we decided that he probably isn’t going to do well in the professional game. So giving up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a solid head coach is a good trade in my opinion. I’m just not sure Herm is that solid of a head coach.

[htismaqe]

Carl signed a 4-year deal after last year.

My bet is that Herm gets a 3-year deal.

[milkman]

Same here.

I'm not thrilled about giving up draft picks for a guy who hasn't really coached that long or accomplished a whole lot. But as I said yesterday, record-wise and experience-wise, Gruden's first 4 years were similar to Herm's, and Tampa bet the freakin' house on him -- and won, big-time and immediately.

Herm's gonna be the coach. I'm gonna have to live with it. He comes to me with a clean slate. KC is a different team and situation than the Jets. I hope Carl/Herm find a way to maintain the offensive production, improve the D and get us to a Super Bowl. I give them 5 years, max (read the sig). If they don't get it done by then, I'll turn on them like a rabid cornered porcupine in heat.

I asked this of Parker in another thread, and I am asking both you and Parker here.

Why are you going to give Hermie five years, when he already has the nucleus of the team in place for a playoff run?

And why five years, when that nucleus is as old as they are on offense?

If he doesn't get it done in two years, then you might as well give him another five years from that point.

So, IMO, he either gets two years, or you have to give him seven.

[kpic]

Ok......now wait a minute.......who is this "Herm Edwards" everyone keeps talking about??

[the Talking Can]

Ok......now wait a minute.......who is this "Herm Edwards" everyone keeps talking about??

he's the black Marty Schottenhiemer...

[siberian khatru]

I asked this of Parker in another thread, and I am asking both you and Parker here.

Why are you going to give Hermie five years, when he already has the nucleus of the team in place for a playoff run?

And why five years, when that nucleus is as old as they are on offense?

If he doesn't get it done in two years, then you might as well give him another five years from that point.

So, IMO, he either gets two years, or you have to give him seven.

Because 5 years is the historical norm (read the sig). Under many different circumstances -- rebuilding, stagnant, existing greatness, etc.

I would prefer he do it sooner rather than later. But it's not far-fetched to fail the first year or two with this aging offensive group, while a younger defense improves, have a year or two of down offense while reloading, then have it all come together in year 5.

It can be done if drafting and signing FAs smartly. Now, that involves Carl and a whole different argument.

[kpic]

he's the black Marty Schottenhiemer...


Ok...thanks.........now I just need to figure out who this "Marty Schottenhiemer" character is.

[Wallcrawler]

Crawler...

THIRD AND ONE. I repeat. THIRD AND ONE.

The Chiefs RAN THE BALL the MAJORITY of the time on THIRD AND ONE.

That is a FACT. And you are WRONG.

Yeah, yeah gochiefs. Third and one. Nice caps by the way. Good emphasis. Despite what you care to think, your hero has screwed the Chiefs on drives with poor playcalling on 3rd and short, when the Chiefs could have run the ball easily for the first. This encompasses 3rd and 1, 3rd and 2, stuff like that. Once again, try to look past the past nine games of this season, and look at the overall span of his time here. I know its hard, because you have such a hardon for Al and Larry Johnson, but try. Try to see the big picture here.

Ive already acknowledged the fact that I made the mistake of only talking about THIRD AND ONE (like the caps?) situations, instead of discussing third and short. (3rd and 1-3), and the goal to go situations.

How about you move on and discuss what I meant to say, instead of kicking a dead horse and babbling on about just third and one? Likely because you would have to acknowledge the fact that your hero does in fact go Mike Martz in various situations when all he has to do is hand the ball off.

Or you could just keep in true gochiefs annoying form as displayed in the numerous, often lamented chronicles of Chiefsplanet lore and keep babbling on in caps about third and one well after the fact has been addressed. Makes no difference to me.

I'll say it again one last time, who knows, maybe it will get through your head this time, but I doubt it. I'll make annoying use of caps, you might understand it better this time.

Al Saunders has put up some impressive numbers as an OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

HOWEVER, over the years here, the Chiefs had the WORST defense in the league. Al HAD to know that he had to do everything he could to keep the offense on the field, and the horrible defense on the sideline.

But time after time, 3rd and short would roll around and instead of going to Holmes behind the best line in the game, he elected to throw, resulting in incomplete or intercepted passes and the defense takes the field.

You can deny this all you like, but anyone who has followed the Chiefs for Al's tenure here knows exactly what Im talking about. Im certain that you do as well, youre just acting like an ass.

Once again, if you dont see it, youre either blind, or refusing to acknowledge it because you have your little panties in a wad about Herm Edwards' likely hiring, or youre retarded. I have my thoughts as to which one you are. There's not a Chiefs fan alive that couldnt immediately think of a critical third down situation where Al called some dumbshit pass that got deflected, dropped by Johnny Morton, or got intercepted, when all they had to do to keep the drive going was run the damn ball.

Hell, sometimes it didnt matter what the situation was in the game, he would just pass the ball come hell or high water. The Chiefs could be running wild all day long and then inexplicably, Al would abandon the successful run game and go to the pass. It made no sense, and rarely worked.

Many articles were posted about this very thing, from CP members to people associated with the team. Even one from Bob Gretz, the biggest Yes man associated with the Chiefs ended a criticizing column about Al Saunders' playcalling with "Dont get cute. Run the football."

Its obvious that Al Saunders is prone to get cute and try some stupid, off the wall play. I dont like the way Mike Martz coached the Rams, and Ive seen glimpses of that in Al's playcalling. Therefore I do not want him as the head coach.

Once again, Herman Edwards first job as a head coach was with the Jets, and he made them competetive. Playoff team 3/5 years. Al Saunders' first head coaching job was with the Chargers, and he sucked.

Good coordinator doesnt mean good head coach. You need look no further than Norv Turner for proof of that. Turner has superbowl rings as a coordinator, and an abysmal record as a head coach. Edwards has shown that he can coach, get his teams to the playoffs, and put them in a position to win. Herm is taking over a team in much better shape than the Jets were in when he got there. I have no reason to believe that he would not be able to have success here.




Go to a Jets board. They are happy as hell for the most part.

Fantastic. Nothing better than getting something out of someone else's ignorance. Exclude this horrific year that the Jets had because of so damn many injuries. Herman Edwards is 35-29, fielding a playoff team in 3 out of four years. 2 playoff wins including one on the road, something the Chiefs havent sniffed for 13 years. Vermiel and his understudy had their shot. 5 years of super aggressive offense, 1 playoff appearance, 0 playoff wins. Obviously, a different approach is needed.

New York fans are harder to please than anyone. Most of them seem to have the mentality that this is like PS2 football. It doesnt matter who you have on the team, you should just be able to win. They will miss Herm Edwards when he is gone.

[tk13]

The fact that Jets fans want him gone, almost across the board, is proof enough that he's not the right man for the job.

Neither is Saunders.
That is just silly. Really. If that was the standard to which things should be measured, Trent would've been gone after his first season, Dante Hall would've had 11 billion TD's for someone else, and Larry Johnson would be running wild for the Miami Dolphins.

[tk13]

Things I have learned from this thread:

1. I agree with everything Tk13 has said and that is pretty much how I feel.

2. I apparently browse ChiefsPlanet too much as each time I watch "The Office" I think that guy is Tk13 and not the other way round'
ROFL Nope, that's me. I'm actually John Krasinski. I just sit here and post about the Chiefs and throw things at Dwight. Yeah, that's it.

Actually I probably do act a lot like Jim. I don't have the great facial expressions he does though. Nor a dirty old shirt that doesn't fit my arms.

[KCChiefsMan]

I think Herm is a good coach, that team was really really bad when he got there, he's made the playoffs 3 times in his short tenure and has 2 playoff wins. I'll take him no problem

[quiettiger]

Bronco fans are already laughing at us for this pathetic move:

On behalf of the Denver Broncos fan base overseas I would like to thank Chiefs organization from the bottom of my heart for making my off season. If you have any problems getting this signed I'm sure the Broncos will throw in an 6th round pick. I know many fans would not mind pitching in a couple of dollars. If you Herm has any problems packing I'm sure the Jets fans are more than glad to help.

Please..Return to your regular off season rant. That is all.

[Hammock Parties]

I think Herm is a good coach, that team was really really bad when he got there, he's made the playoffs 3 times in his short tenure and has 2 playoff wins. I'll take him no problem

4 years prior to Herm: 9-7, 12-4, 8-8, 9-7

Yeah they were AWFUL. :rolleyes:

[Hammock Parties]

That is just silly. Really. If that was the standard to which things should be measured, Trent would've been gone after his first season, Dante Hall would've had 11 billion TD's for someone else, and Larry Johnson would be running wild for the Miami Dolphins.

Five years is a good sample size. One is not. Huge difference.

[bkkcoh]

I am real mixed on getting Herm as a coach. I think he is a decent coach, but lacks in a couple of areas, time/clock management for one.

I would prefer to see a Fisher-type of coach, but are they truly out there. I don't know..

[Hammock Parties]

bla bla bla etc etc

Hey, I don't want Al as head coach either.

[Hammock Parties]

Get ready to get swept by Shanahan next year.


Oops.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd take Al Saunders sooner than I'd take Germ Edwards.

Phew. Dodged a bullet.

[Reerun_KC]

Phew. Dodged a bullet.


And got hit by the one following that one, right in the nuts....


Al or Herm? Whats the difference?

[Hammock Parties]

And got hit by the one following that one, right in the nuts....


Al or Herm? Whats the difference?

Herm is a head coach...Al is a glory hound propped up by talent.

[Reerun_KC]

Herm is a head coach...Al is a glory hound propped up by talent.


Herm is a head coach, but not an NFL caliber head coach....

I'll conceed on Al... I agree...

[Logical]

Bump