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View Full Version : What's good about getting Herm?


Tuckdaddy
01-05-2006, 10:22 AM
I can't think of anything special. I think he's decent but what's his real allure?

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:23 AM
You get a coach who will teach the philosophy "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME."

eazyb81
01-05-2006, 10:24 AM
3 playoff appearances in the last 5 years with a team inferior to the Chiefs, and 2 playoff wins during that time period.

Oh yeah, him and King Carl are buddies.

No, Herm isn't Don Shula, but he is an above average coach. Would you be happier with Mike Tice, Jim Haslett, or Norv Turner?

Seek
01-05-2006, 10:24 AM
I can't think of anything special. I think he's decent but what's his real allure?

He does a great job scouting and drafting Defensive talent.

Bootlegged
01-05-2006, 10:24 AM
The Herm is permanent...there is no known cure for the Herm. Symptoms include lesions, blisters and rash around the genitalia.

Seek
01-05-2006, 10:25 AM
3 playoff appearances in the last 5 years with a team inferior to the Chiefs, and 2 playoff wins during that time period.

Oh yeah, him and King Carl are buddies.

No, Herm isn't Don Shula, but he is an above average coach. Would you be happier with Mike Tice, Jim Haslett, or Norv Turner?

so you basically just said he out coached DV. Since both coaches inherited 9-7 teams.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-05-2006, 10:26 AM
The real upside is his press conferences are entertaining the downside is pretty much everything else.

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:26 AM
The Herm is permanent...there is no known cure for the Herm. Symptoms include lesions, blisters and rash around the genitalia.

:)

Please don't confuse "The Herm" with "The Ron Mexicos".

eazyb81
01-05-2006, 10:26 AM
so you basically just said he out coached DV. Since both coaches inherited 9-7 teams.

I guess I did, what's your point?

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:27 AM
The real upside is his press conferences are entertaining the downside is pretty much everything else.

Herm is probably the best coach available, unless Jeff Fisher becomes available.

When Herm's teams have been healthy, he's won.

jspchief
01-05-2006, 10:28 AM
More success with less talent in the same time that Vermeil had with the Chiefs.

The guy has the resume.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:29 AM
More nuggets of wisdom:

"Any drive that ends in a kick is good."

"If we hold them to 30 points, we can win."

Seek
01-05-2006, 10:30 AM
I guess I did, what's your point?

Just paraphrasing to make it clear for those who didn't follow you. dumbed it down to say.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:33 AM
More success with less talent in the same time that Vermeil had with the Chiefs.

The guy has the resume.

You're fooling yourself.

If anything, they had more talent. Especially on defense.

In 2001 their 10-6 team beat our vastly inferior 6-10 team.

In 2002 our 8-8 team beat their 9-7 team.

The only "success" they had was beating up on an inexperienced Colts team and underchoking Marty.

Give the Chiefs the easy regular season schedules that the Jets had almost every year, and we'd have been in the playoffs 3 years if not more.

DaWolf
01-05-2006, 10:37 AM
Well I'm not a huge Edwards fan at this point, but I guess:

A) Brings a defensive mind to the table, coached under defensive coaches like Marty, Dungy, Monte Kiffin. Can bring a change about in our D.

B) Until this year did have good success at the head coach of the Jets.

C) Actually managed to develop a young QB under his watch (of course the guy was injury prone).

D) Knows the value of a good offensive line and a top notch running back, which he would inherit here.

E) His players respect him and it wouldn't trigger a mass exodus. Transition period would be much shorter since he could easily talk to DV about anyone on the roster and get the bottom line. May be the best bet if we want to win now.

F) His teams are physical, not looked upon as soft, which frankly we have become over the years, at least defensively.

G) Actually has won a playoff game in the last 10 years.

Right now we're discussing a lot of his weaknesses, but once he's hired, we're gonna be fed all of his positives and I'm sure the rationalization of the choice is going to set in with us...

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:39 AM
A) Brings a defensive mind to the table, coached under defensive coaches like Marty, Dungy, Monte Kiffin. Can bring a change about in our D.


I thought so too, but not so from what Jets fans are telling me.

He was certainly never a coordinator. His initial defensive efforts were failures.

So he fired the coordinator.

At least he did that quicker than Dick, I guess. ROFL

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:40 AM
More nuggets of wisdom:

"Any drive that ends in a kick is good."

"If we hold them to 30 points, we can win."


Just to clarify, who do you want?

Not sure I 100% understand why you're so anti-Herm......

jspchief
01-05-2006, 10:41 AM
You're fooling yourself.

If anything, they had more talent. Especially on defense.

In 2001 their 10-6 team beat our vastly inferior 6-10 team.

In 2002 our 8-8 team beat their 9-7 team.

The only "success" they had was beating up on an inexperienced Colts team and underchoking Marty.

Give the Chiefs the easy regular season schedules that the Jets had almost every year, and we'd have been in the playoffs 3 years if not more.The record speaks for itself. In the same conference, he took his team to the play-offs while Vermeil failed.

They certainly had superior talent on defense, but they had nowhere near the offense. Maybe it wasn't overall inferior, but he sure as hell didn't have a notable advantage.

Which coaching candidates have better resumes? I'm not saying he's the next Vince Lombardi, but he has to be one of the better coaching candidates this year.

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:41 AM
I thought so too, but not so from what Jets fans are telling me.

He was certainly never a coordinator. His initial defensive efforts were failures. So he fired the coordinator.

Listening to NY fans will only poison your preception.

Remember, these guys once booed Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris and Joe Namath.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:41 AM
Just to clarify, who do you want?

Not sure I 100% understand why you're so anti-Herm......

For all the reasons I've been listing. Poor winning percentage against winning football teams (33.3%), poor clock management, bad personnel decisions, etc.

But go ahead and back Germ Edwards if you want to see us taking knees on third downs before field goals...

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:42 AM
For all the reasons I've been listing. Poor winning percentage against winning football teams (33.3%), poor clock management, bad personnel decisions, etc.

So, who do you want?

Wouldn't the personnel be more of a Bradway thing rather than Herm?

DaWolf
01-05-2006, 10:45 AM
Give the Chiefs the easy regular season schedules that the Jets had almost every year, and we'd have been in the playoffs 3 years if not more.

I dunno about that. I understand what you're saying but 4 of our 6 losses this year came to non playoff teams. We had our chances the last 5 years and the coaching staff we had just didn't get it done in winnable games against winnable teams...

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:46 AM
So, who do you want?

Wouldn't the personnel be more of a Bradway thing rather than Herm?

I wasn't talking about drafting and free agents.

Anyway, I just want someone fresh. Stoops, Ferentz, Rivera take your pick. The younger the better.

Edwards isn't fresh. He bombed in New York and Carl is only hiring him because of their relationship.

The Al Saunders interview was token. Carl owes it to the fans to interview as many candidates as possible, but he's obviously made up his mind. :shake:

the Talking Can
01-05-2006, 10:48 AM
well, he's not a potted plant...

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 10:51 AM
I wasn't talking about drafting and free agents.

Anyway, I just want someone fresh. Stoops, Ferentz, Rivera take your pick. The younger the better.

Edwards isn't fresh. He bombed in New York and Carl is only hiring him because of their relationship.

The Al Saunders interview was token. Carl owes it to the fans to interview as many candidates as possible, but he's obviously made up his mind. :shake:

I wouldn't call 3 playoff appearances in 5 years "bombed", but I suppose that's a matter of perception.

You realize that bringing in Stoops or Ferentz would equal a complete gutting on the entire team right? (Not to mention losing Roaf and Shields)

Do you really want to do that with the offense in the state it's in?

Do you really want a college coach learning on the job while taking over a 10-6 team?

I'm not sure I understand your logic here other than just wanting "someone else or someone fresh".

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:51 AM
What's even more appalling is that Germ wanted a raise from the Jets after going 4-12.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2006, 10:52 AM
You realize that bringing in Stoops or Ferentz would equal a complete gutting on the entire team right? (Not to mention losing Roaf and Shields)


Uh, why?

What does Edwards bring to the table that those two don't? Germ Edwards has never played nor coached the Coryell offense.

And if Germ wants to install his Cover 2 scheme, he's going to have to gut the defense, anyway.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-05-2006, 11:27 AM
Edwards is a choker 2nd only to marty. He's So conservative on offense there is no way we can keep the offense the same as it is now. He also has gotten progressively worse every year since losing more and more of Parcells players.

htismaqe
01-05-2006, 11:28 AM
I wouldn't call 3 playoff appearances in 5 years "bombed", but I suppose that's a matter of perception.

You realize that bringing in Stoops or Ferentz would equal a complete gutting on the entire team right? (Not to mention losing Roaf and Shields)

Do you really want to do that with the offense in the state it's in?

Do you really want a college coach learning on the job while taking over a 10-6 team?

I'm not sure I understand your logic here other than just wanting "someone else or someone fresh".

Um, Nick Saban didn't "gut" his team. Bringing in Stoops or Ferentz equals unknown and NOTHING more.

htismaqe
01-05-2006, 11:30 AM
Uh, why?

What does Edwards bring to the table that those two don't? Germ Edwards has never played nor coached the Coryell offense.

And if Germ wants to install his Cover 2 scheme, he's going to have to gut the defense, anyway.

Edwards was a defensive player. Of course he's never played in a Coryell offense.

He has, however, played for Dick Vermeil.

And I HOPE he guts the defense. Other than Surtain, Allen, Mitchell, and DJ, the rest of them are replacable.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-05-2006, 11:30 AM
Carl Hiring Herm is the 4 year Victory tour....the victory of squeezing as much money out of a classy organisation as possible.

htismaqe
01-05-2006, 11:52 AM
Uh, why?

What does Edwards bring to the table that those two don't? Germ Edwards has never played nor coached the Coryell offense.

And if Germ wants to install his Cover 2 scheme, he's going to have to gut the defense, anyway.

Edwards was a defensive player. Of course he's never played in a Coryell offense.

He has, however, played for Dick Vermeil.

And I HOPE he guts the defense. Other than Surtain, Allen, Mitchell, and DJ, the rest of them are replacable.

ROYC75
01-05-2006, 11:52 AM
I can't think of anything special. I think he's decent but what's his real allure?


I wish I knew, his 6 - 20 record against winning teams and clock managment is enough to scare me.

Last I checked, we don't really play patsy schedules that often.

Predarat
01-05-2006, 11:54 AM
I think Herman Edwards is a decent coach. He would be a lot better if he could pick a good offensive cordinator and stay the **** out of the way. But thats a big if. Some head coaches love controlling things they shouldnt and refuse to take their finger off the big red button. I hope Herm is not one of those especially if he said "Any drive that ends in a kick is a successful one".

Cochise
01-05-2006, 11:55 AM
Because being bounced from the playoffs early is better than barely missing the playoffs. I guess.

tomahawk kid
01-05-2006, 01:05 PM
Uh, why?

What does Edwards bring to the table that those two don't? Germ Edwards has never played nor coached the Coryell offense.

And if Germ wants to install his Cover 2 scheme, he's going to have to gut the defense, anyway.

Edwards brings two playoffs wins as well as head coaching experience in the NFL.

Generally, hiring a college coach = gutting the organization. Usually want to bring in their players etc.

I would hope that Herm would be brighter than that if he got the KC job. His learning curve would also be quite a bit shorter than Stoops or Ferentz.

Just my opinion......

ROYC75
01-05-2006, 01:11 PM
I think Herman Edwards is a decent coach. He would be a lot better if he could pick a good offensive cordinator and stay the **** out of the way. But thats a big if. Some head coaches love controlling things they shouldnt and refuse to take their finger off the big red button. I hope Herm is not one of those especially if he said "Any drive that ends in a kick is a successful one".


So when we hire him, his 1st gift is a Staples Easy Button ?

58-4ever
01-05-2006, 01:24 PM
some act like it is so easy to "gut" an organization. It takes time to install new players with new attitudes. Please NO Herm!

tiptap
01-05-2006, 02:00 PM
The NYJ line last year was the KC offensive line of 2003. The offense could run both left and right as well as up the middle with success. But like the 2003 Chiefs, the NYJ of 2005 lost their excellent if not superior RT (and a guard as well). The results was a lost in the running game more so than KC. The defense depended upon good ball control.

Result is that with the present KC line and LJ running we could see good success though I too think there is some relunctance to go for the jugular on offense. But I think Green may like many QB, call his own play once in a while to get things going.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2006, 02:17 PM
didn't Herm Edwards get 4 1st round draft picks to work with his first year of coaching?