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View Full Version : Carl doesn't make sense to me, anyone else get this or him?


Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2006, 10:40 PM
Edwards is gone now, so why would we give up anything for him? Are the Chiefs that dumb? They know he's going to be released from his contract, meaning we won't owe them crap, and we are trying to work out a deal ahead of that time? Are the Chiefs nuts or something? I know people will say, "well, if Herm is released, then any franchise needing a head coach can get him." That is true, but if Herm really wants to coach here, he'll leave as soon as he's released from his contract, or fired or whatever, and get on a plane to KC to get interviewed and hired.

Why can't Carl make this simple and hire AS? He deserves a shot. Herm is so mediocre it's pathetic.

Chan93lx50
01-05-2006, 10:46 PM
If you find an answer please let me know!

We should have just went with Saunders and if it did not work out, then Hire Herby once his contract runs out.

The Bad Guy
01-05-2006, 10:48 PM
If you find an answer please let me know!

We should have just went with Saunders and if it did not work out, then Hire Herby once his contract runs out.

If Carl wanted Saunders, he wouldn't have even bothered talking with the Jets.

There's obviously something he doesn't like.

I just want this Herm thing done. He's the best out there right now and despite what I read on this board, I think we could do TONS worse than him.

The Bad Guy
01-05-2006, 10:49 PM
If mediocrity is making the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and winning a road playoff game, then sign me up for it.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2006, 10:50 PM
If Carl wanted Saunders, he wouldn't have even bothered talking with the Jets.

There's obviously something he doesn't like.

I just want this Herm thing done. He's the best out there right now and despite what I read on this board, I think we could do TONS worse than him.

If we get Herm, fine, I just hope we don't give up picks for him, because he's not worth it.

SLAG
01-05-2006, 10:51 PM
I just want this Herm thing done. He's the best out there right now and despite what I read on this board, I think we could do TONS worse than him.


I semi Agree.

I still want A.S to stay on as O.C

Taco John
01-05-2006, 10:58 PM
If mediocrity is making the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and winning a road playoff game, then sign me up for it.

That's about as close to mediocre as you can get...



1998 7-9-0 4th -- Marty Schottenheimer

1997 13-3-0 1st --Playoffs: 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Marty Schottenheimer

1996 9-7-0 2nd -- Marty Schottenheimer

1995 13-3-0 1st -- Playoffs: 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Marty Schottenheimer

1994 9-7-0 2nd -- Playoffs: 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs Marty Schottenheimer

Taco John
01-05-2006, 11:03 PM
Any guesses on how those Jets teams would have fared if they were replacing San Diego in the AFC West the last five years?

The Bad Guy
01-05-2006, 11:07 PM
Any guesses on how those Jets teams would have fared if they were replacing San Diego in the AFC West the last five years?

I have no guesses, but I'd venture to say that the AFC East was tougher over the last 5 years over the AFC West. The SB champ came from the AFC East 3 out of those 5 years.

PastorMikH
01-05-2006, 11:08 PM
People are going to think I'm silly for thinking this, but as I drove through KC today and listened to the various sports talk shows, I got to wondering something. Knowing it's DVs last year, and knowing his situation in NY, also with us knowing that Carl has been watching Herm for a couple of years, could it be possible that Herm laid down on a few games to get his record where the Jets would consider letting him go?

Crazy I know, but it has had me wondering.

SLAG
01-05-2006, 11:09 PM
People are going to think I'm silly for thinking this, but as I drove through KC today and listened to the various sports talk shows, I got to wondering something. Knowing it's DVs last year, and knowing his situation in NY, also with us knowing that Carl has been watching Herm for a couple of years, could it be possible that Herm laid down on a few games to get his record where the Jets would consider letting him go?

Crazy I know, but it has had me wondering.



Cheating in the NFL......


NEVER :mad:

keg in kc
01-05-2006, 11:12 PM
People are going to think I'm silly for thinking this, but as I drove through KC today and listened to the various sports talk shows, I got to wondering something. Knowing it's DVs last year, and knowing his situation in NY, also with us knowing that Carl has been watching Herm for a couple of years, could it be possible that Herm laid down on a few games to get his record where the Jets would consider letting him go?

Crazy I know, but it has had me wondering.Unless he paid his players to hurt themselves and miss games, I don't think that's all that feasible.

Rausch
01-05-2006, 11:13 PM
That's about as close to mediocre as you can get...


Guess that means Shanny's been less than mediocre the last 5 years...

SLAG
01-05-2006, 11:17 PM
Guess that means Shanny's been less than mediocre the last 5 years...


Are you over on the Jets Board?

Taco John
01-05-2006, 11:18 PM
Guess that means Shanny's been less than mediocre the last 5 years...


Undoubtedly.

Taco John
01-05-2006, 11:18 PM
For what it's worth, I completely understand Carl. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=913439&posted=1#post913439) The guy is a fricken window.

Lonewolf Ed
01-05-2006, 11:22 PM
Any guesses on how those Jets teams would have fared if they were replacing San Diego in the AFC West the last five years?

Just one: The Raiders would have had real competition for last place?

Taco John
01-05-2006, 11:37 PM
Just one: The Raiders would have had real competition for last place?



It would have gone down to the wire.

Rausch
01-05-2006, 11:41 PM
Are you over on the Jets Board?

Nope, why?

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2006, 11:52 PM
Apparently, the Jets feel like if Herm was a free agent, he'd get some interest from elsewhere around the league, given all of the vacancies. Especially considering he's a black coach and teams are forced to shuffle black coaches through their hiring processes to meet quota. So teams would jump to interview him, not only because of his obvious qualifications, but also because of the quota (sickening how this was implemented, but whatever). So apparently since Carl wants to hire somebody who "owes him something," the Jets are hoping to force his hand so that he will relent and part with the picks.

Apparently, as I understand it, Carl didn't like how things went the last time around. Because of the nature of his relationship with DV, he felt like he owed something to DV and pretty much capitulated on just about every personnel decision to make the coach happy, despite some fierce disagreements at times, and of course, the Daiper Boy pick. He sees that the clock is starting to run out on him, with the age of Clark Hunt, Lamar's heir, dawning a new day in the near future. Carl wants to do things his way, and is looking for a coach who he can pretty much say "this is how it's going to be, and here are the players you're going to do it with." Figuring, of course, that if he's going to go down, he'll go down in his own blaze of glory. He's got a good relationship with Herman, and feels that he can do this while maintaining a good working relationship with the coach. He apparently doesn't want to bring in a personality who is going to challenge him every step of the way and make life more difficult for him than it already is. Plus he and Herm see eye to eye on a lot of things, particularly when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.

Take it for what it's worth, but this is how I see the situation from my vantage point...


You hit the nail on the head with that, Taco. Rep.

Mecca
01-05-2006, 11:55 PM
We'll probably end up compromising with the Jets and giving them like a 5th round pick or something like that.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2006, 11:59 PM
We'll probably end up compromising with the Jets and giving them like a 5th round pick or something like that.

Why, though? He's quitting/getting fired or whatever, we shouldn't owe them anything. If we give up any picks for that guy, especially after all that has went down, we would be getting screwed.

Taco John
01-06-2006, 12:17 AM
Why, though? He's quitting/getting fired or whatever, we shouldn't owe them anything. If we give up any picks for that guy, especially after all that has went down, we would be getting screwed.


Because Herm is Carl's guy. Carl doesn't want to risk having to get into a bidding war with, say, the Chargers over him. I know that's an extreme example, but the situation in San Diego isn't safe until February, IMO. There are a lot of good coaches in the post season that I think teams are sitting on and waiting to come available before they make their moves...

Honestly, I have a hunch that Bill Cowher is going to be fired after they lose in the first round of the playoffs. I wouldn't be suprised to see the Herm Edwards deal fall through only to see a Bill Cowher deal commence.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-06-2006, 12:20 AM
I wouldn't be suprised to see the Herm Edwards deal fall through only to see a Bill Cowher deal commence.

:mad: Take that back. :cuss: Not Bill Cowher!!!

I can't wait until 4 years, when Carl is finally gone... :(

Mecca
01-06-2006, 12:22 AM
Vanilla would like an unproven coach with a veteran team.........

KC Dan
01-06-2006, 12:22 AM
Why, though? He's quitting/getting fired or whatever, we shouldn't owe them anything. If we give up any picks for that guy, especially after all that has went down, we would be getting screwed.
As I and others have stated on other threads, the Jets are not letting him go for nothing. Edwards is walking out on them. That means the Jets still hold his contract and if the Chiefs want him, they must compensate the Jets and whatever compensation is agreed upon, it has to be ok'ed by the league. If the Jets fire him, then he is free to sign anywhere he wants. It is just that simple.

Taco John
01-06-2006, 12:24 AM
Face it. You're going to get a Carl Peterson guy, whoever you get. Carl wants control, and a coach who will take what he gives them.

Short Leash Hootie
01-06-2006, 12:26 AM
If Herm is hired, I hope he at least hires a creative offensive coordinator. I still don't like the idea of having Green learn a new offense. He's one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL...and obviously our offense is JUST fine as is. It really bothers me CP isn't giving Saunders a chance but what can you do?

If I could have my way, make it a two year plan with Saunders...that way, if the Chiefs still can't get it together they can fire Saunders and start the rebuilding process from scratch with a new coach and new players.

If we hire a new coach from a new system he's acquiring a bunch of DV players that might not fit the new scheme.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-06-2006, 12:26 AM
Vanilla would like an unproven coach with a veteran team.........

Why not take the risk on an up and coming unproven coach? It just might pay off...

Herm hasn't proven that much, only that he's a mediocre coach. 39-41, right? Two playoff wins? He's not worth picks.

Oh well, whatever happens, happens...

Chiefs Pantalones
01-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Face it. You're going to get a Carl Peterson guy, whoever you get. Carl wants control, and a coach who will take what he gives them.

I know...

But it's ok to dream... :)

Mecca
01-06-2006, 12:28 AM
Why not take the risk on an up and coming unproven coach? It just might pay off...

Herm hasn't proven that much, only that he's a mediocre coach. 39-41, right? Two playoff wins? He's not worth picks.

Oh well, whatever happens, happens...

I think it's a dumb idea to hire a coach who hasn't been a head coach before when you have a heavily veteran team. If we were a young team that was rebuilding, ok then I'm fine with it.

Based upon what Edwards has done, he's an upgrade from what we've had as a head coach for the last 7 years.......

Chiefs Pantalones
01-06-2006, 12:29 AM
If Herm is hired, I hope he at least hires a creative offensive coordinator. I still don't like the idea of having Green learn a new offense. He's one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL...and obviously our offense is JUST fine as is. It really bothers me CP isn't giving Saunders a chance but what can you do?

If I could have my way, make it a two year plan with Saunders...that way, if the Chiefs still can't get it together they can fire Saunders and start the rebuilding process from scratch with a new coach and new players.

If we hire a new coach from a new system he's acquiring a bunch of DV players that might not fit the new scheme.

I really can't see Green being successful in another offense. I don't mean that to bash on him, just that he's been in this offense all his college and pro career, right? That would be a hard change, not just for Green, but I don't think a vet-heavy offense like ours wants to learn a whole new scheme.

Bosko
01-06-2006, 12:32 AM
If mediocrity is making the playoffs 3 out of 5 years and winning a road playoff game, then sign me up for it.

So, you'll settle for 39-41 over the next 5 years?

Mecca
01-06-2006, 12:33 AM
That record is somewhat skewed considering the 4-12 with half the team on IR.

Logical
01-06-2006, 12:34 AM
Why, though? He's quitting/getting fired or whatever, we shouldn't owe them anything. If we give up any picks for that guy, especially after all that has went down, we would be getting screwed.Cody, if he quits he is still under obligation to the Jets. We cannot hire him without compensating the Jets. The Chiefs got I believe a 2nd rounder (maybe it was a third) for Marty even though he had quit. Only if the Jets fire him would the obligation go away.

Short Leash Hootie
01-06-2006, 12:34 AM
I really can't see Green being successful in another offense. I don't mean that to bash on him, just that he's been in this offense all his college and pro career, right? That would be a hard change, not just for Green, but I don't think a vet-heavy offense like ours wants to learn a whole new scheme.
If we change schemes now, it'll be a big mistake.

We were a few plays away from 12, 13 wins this year...

I wouldn't mind seeing Terry Shea be our offensive coordinator. I don't think he got a fair shake in Chicago.

Short Leash Hootie
01-06-2006, 12:36 AM
That record is somewhat skewed considering the 4-12 with half the team on IR.
If Herm comes to KC, he can do whatever he wants with our defense. I don't care.

If he starts messing with the offense I'm going to be upset. Herm obviously has no idea how to evaluate talent. No good head coach would KNOWINGLY start a QB (Pennington) who obviously wasn't NFL ready this year. He looked like a high school QB when he played at Arrowhead week 1. He confused me into thinking our defense was actually going to be good this year.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-06-2006, 12:37 AM
Cody, if he quits he is still under obligation to the Jets. We cannot hire him without compensating the Jets. The Chiefs got I believe a 2nd rounder (maybe it was a third) for Marty even though he had quit. Only if the Jets fire him would the obligation go away.

Yeah, I got it now.

Nice ref. on the Marty info, btw, I had forgotten about that.