PDA

View Full Version : Who's Really To Blame?


KansasCityChiefs
01-07-2006, 11:58 PM
As a loyal fan of the Chiefs, I am disgruntled with the front office as almost every Chief fan is. Most people point the blame at GM Carl Peterson, but I have a new argument that disagrees with this. I agree that some of the fault should be given to Peterson, but I don't think he's the one to blame. The GM is the most recognized person in the front office, but I think someone else is to blame. And his name is Lamar Hunt. Now listen to me before you go to the next thread. Some will say, no way! Peterson is at fault because he makes all the decisions. This is true. But if Hunt disagreed with Peterson, than he would have fired him by now. Hunt must agree with Peterson because he's still our GM and his son, who's the Chairman of the Board, would have something to say if he thought Peterson was doing a bad job. Peterson is Hunt's guy and whatever Peterson does, Hunt does. Now some may say that Hunt is not really competent and doesn't know what he's doing. Well, this just furthurs my argument. If he's not competent, we're never going to win because he's going to keep hiring or not firing guys like Peterson. My point is that as long as Hunt is our owner, we are never going to go anywhere, not because Peterson, but because of Hunt. Hunt can fire Peterson at any time he wants to, he can decide not to resign him or whatever. But he doesn't, and that is going to be our problem in the end.

I want to hear your guy's feedback, so post back. If you guys disagree with me and think I'm crazy, that's OK, but I want to hear why you think I'm crazy. Oh yeah, I've been a longtime fan, but haven't signed up on here yet (my friend told me about it), so don't think I'm some kind of newbie.

Thanks,

GO CHIEFS

Rausch
01-08-2006, 12:01 AM
Lamar Hunt, and owners like him, are the reason the NFL is what it is.

It's why the NFL doesn't completely suck ass like the NHL, MLB, or NBA.

We need MORE men like Lamar and less like Dan Snyder.

SNR
01-08-2006, 12:02 AM
Rarely ever do team owners know the first thing about the sport their team plays.

Not suggesting Lamar is like that, but it's not his job.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-08-2006, 12:03 AM
Canada.

Halfcan
01-08-2006, 12:04 AM
I think Lamar has wrote the checks he was asked to write-nobody wants to win more than him.

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 12:08 AM
I know, I give all respect Hunt as an organizer and the NFL would not be the same without him. But, as long as he's there, we don't have a chance to win a Super Bowl. Who do you think inked Peterson? Hunt did. He thinks Peterson is the best man for the job and obviously if he wanted to win he would notice that Peterson is not getting the job done. I already said that if people said he wasn't competent, then we don't have a chance because well... he's not competent. He doesn't realize that Peterson sucks. That's my point.

I like the responses, keep them coming.

Nzoner
01-08-2006, 12:12 AM
(my friend told me about it)

Thanks,

GO CHIEFS

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 12:17 AM
What are you trying to say Nzoner? You just quoted my last 3 lines. Is there a purpose for this?

Just wondering....

Rausch
01-08-2006, 12:25 AM
I know, I give all respect Hunt as an organizer and the NFL would not be the same without him. But, as long as he's there, we don't have a chance to win a Super Bowl.

He's been to two of them.

He won one.

He INVENTED the ****ing term super bowl.

Perhaps your ire should be aimed at the HC/GM that failed...

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 12:30 AM
I know that, when's the last time we've been to a Super Bowl though? That was when he was young and energized. Now, he's old and not as motivated. My point again is, he signed Peterson because he thought he was the best guy. Peterson failed, so that means Hunt failed too because he's the one who signed him. OK, here's another question for you Rausch: have we been to a Super Bowl the last 30 years?

Rausch
01-08-2006, 12:35 AM
I know that, when's the last time we've been to a Super Bowl though? That was when he was young and energized. Now, he's old and not as motivated. My point again is, he signed Peterson because he thought he was the best guy. Peterson failed, so that means Hunt failed too because he's the one who signed him. OK, here's another question for you Rausch: have we been to a Super Bowl the last 30 years?

Ok, for one second, try to think like Lamar does.

He's insanely rich. He whipes his ass with thousand dollar bills and sprinkles in some gold dust when he flushes.

His hobby, and love, is football.

That's what he does. I read, write, and play videogames.

He runs an NFL franchise. That's his hobby. It's what he does on the side for fun. Rich guys don't garden, work in the shop, or build the extension their wife has been dreaming of.

There is nothing left for him to accomplish OTHER than winning another super bowl.

Lamar has NEVER won the trophy named after him. You don't think that eats his ass, just...oh, a little bit?

Logical
01-08-2006, 12:37 AM
Lamar Hunt, and owners like him, are the reason the NFL is what it is.

It's why the NFL doesn't completely suck ass like the NHL, MLB, or NBA.

We need MORE men like Lamar and less like Dan Snyder.

I would like to think there might be a happy medium somewhere between Hunt and Snyder. Clearly of the two Hunt is the better owner for the NFL.

Tactical Funky
01-08-2006, 12:38 AM
Ok, for one second, try to think like Lamar does.

He's insanely rich. He whipes his ass with thousand dollar bills and sprinkles in some gold dust when he flushes.

His hobby, and love, is football.

That's what he does. I read, write, and play videogames.

He runs an NFL franchise. That's his hobby. It's what he does on the side for fun. Rich guys don't garden, work in the shop, or build the extension their wife has been dreaming of.

There is nothing left for him to accomplish OTHER than winning another super bowl.

Lamar has NEVER won the trophy named after him. You don't think that eats his ass, just...oh, a little bit?
Can I get an a-****IN'-men?!?! :clap:

Nzoner
01-08-2006, 12:39 AM
I would like to think there might be a happy medium somewhere between Hunt and Snyder. Clearly of the two Hunt is the better owner for the NFL.

Someone like Bob Kraft?

Rausch
01-08-2006, 12:39 AM
I would like to think there might be a happy medium somewhere between Hunt and Snyder.

If only the world were puppy dogs and unicorns...

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 12:42 AM
If he wants to win a Super Bowl so badly like you say he does, why does he continue to settle for mediocrity? If he so badly wants to win a Super Bowl why is Peterson still in business? Tell me why Peterson is still in businees. Because Hunt has to agree with his decisions or he would've booted him a long time ago.

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 12:43 AM
Lamar Hunt, and owners like him, are the reason the NFL is what it is.

It's why the NFL doesn't completely suck ass like the NHL, MLB, or NBA.

We need MORE men like Lamar and less like Dan Snyder.I agree with that completely, but I still blame Lamar for keeping Carl as GM...

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 12:48 AM
Rausch, do you have any response to why Peterson is still employed? The only answer is because of Hunt. But I want to see what you will say, so if you're still on, post back please.

Thanks

huskerdooz
01-08-2006, 12:56 AM
Oh yeah, I've been a longtime fan, but haven't signed up on here yet (my friend told me about it), so don't think I'm some kind of newbie.

Thanks,

GO CHIEFS

This wouldn't be your friend would it?

Or possibly your brother?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=132812

I can't figure out why you and your pal here don't like the Hunt family.

Logical
01-08-2006, 12:57 AM
Someone like Bob Kraft?Nice example, another owner who used his own money to finance a stadium (though I think it is a crappy design) and done things in a classy way (at least as far as you can tell from media coverage).

Rausch
01-08-2006, 12:58 AM
I agree with that completely, but I still blame Lamar for keeping Carl as GM...

And I'll ask you this:

Did Carl tell One-nut Augiar to run the ball on 4th and 3 in the playoffs, while KC had the best short yardage RB in history on the sidelines?

Did Carl tell marty to send that ****ing waste of ****ing putrid whale excrement back on the field to miss his 3rd FG against the Colts?

I'm guessing Carl didn't tell Gun to have his defense play 10 yards off TO so he could single handedly SODOMIZE our secondary to the biggest comeback in arrowhead history either.

Just a thought...

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 12:59 AM
Lamar has NEVER won the trophy named after him. You don't think that eats his ass, just...oh, a little bit?And its his fault he's kept a GM in charge of his franchise that has not given him that trophy...

Pitt Gorilla
01-08-2006, 01:01 AM
Rausch, do you have any response to why Peterson is still employed? The only answer is because of Hunt. But I want to see what you will say, so if you're still on, post back please.

ThanksWhat did Peterson fail to do last offseason? Bell didn't work out, but the coaches wanted him. Honestly, do you think Lamar can somehow will a win by wanting it badly enough?

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:03 AM
And its his fault he's kept a GM in charge of his franchise that has not given him that trophy...

Carl, in the end, is responsible.

The same way Herm is responsible for the abortion of a season the Jets had.

But if you think Carl is the single reason why we don't have a trophy you aren't paying attention...

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 01:03 AM
And I'll ask you this:

Did Carl tell One-nut Augiar to run the ball on 4th and 3 in the playoffs, while KC had the best short yardage RB in history on the sidelines?

Did Carl tell marty to send that ****ing waste of ****ing putrid whale excrement back on the field to miss his 3rd FG against the Colts?

I'm guessing Carl didn't tell Gun to have his defense play 10 yards off TO so he could single handedly SODOMIZE our secondary to the biggest comeback in arrowhead history either.

Just a thought...Carl put Marty in charge. Lamar put Carl in charge. Lamar is the owner. Has any other GM stayed on as long as Carl without a trip to a SB?

Logical
01-08-2006, 01:05 AM
What did Peterson fail to do last offseason? Bell didn't work out, but the coaches wanted him. Honestly, do you think Lamar can somehow will a win by wanting it badly enough?Pitt, I agree he tried to do well last offseason. However, you can still fault him for doing nothing of a serious nature other than hiring Gunther (which I was less than pleased with) in 2004 to rebuild the pathetic defense. You cannot turn a defense around in just one offseason and Carl should know that. Standing pat in 2004 gets him very high negative marks.

Valiant
01-08-2006, 01:07 AM
Ok, for one second, try to think like Lamar does.

He's insanely rich. He whipes his ass with thousand dollar bills and sprinkles in some gold dust when he flushes.

His hobby, and love, is football.

That's what he does. I read, write, and play videogames.

He runs an NFL franchise. That's his hobby. It's what he does on the side for fun. Rich guys don't garden, work in the shop, or build the extension their wife has been dreaming of.

There is nothing left for him to accomplish OTHER than winning another super bowl.

Lamar has NEVER won the trophy named after him. You don't think that eats his ass, just...oh, a little bit?


Actually I think his love and hobby is soccer... The ****er owns four teams...

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:07 AM
Carl put Marty in charge. Lamar put Carl in charge. Lamar is the owner. Has any other GM stayed on as long as Carl without a trip to a SB?

No GM in history has his winning percentage either (games under his charge.)

Look it up...

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:09 AM
Actually I think his love and hobby is soccer... The ****er owns four teams...

Probably why he sold the team then.... :hmmm:

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 01:09 AM
Carl, in the end, is responsible.

The same way Herm is responsible for the abortion of a season the Jets had.

But if you think Carl is the single reason why we don't have a trophy you aren't paying attention...Its not just Carl. Its players and coaching, but it still falls on Carl...

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 01:12 AM
No GM in history has his winning percentage either (games under his charge.)

Look it up...I believe it. Thats regular season. Post-season, on the other hand...

Logical
01-08-2006, 01:12 AM
Actually I think his love and hobby is soccer... The ****er owns four teams...

Four soccer teams? Really, are they all in the same league?

Pitt Gorilla
01-08-2006, 01:13 AM
Pitt, I agree he tried to do well last offseason. However, you can still fault him for doing nothing of a serious nature other than hiring Gunther (which I was less than pleased with) in 2004 to rebuild the pathetic defense. You cannot turn a defense around in just one offseason and Carl should know that. Standing pat in 2004 gets him very high negative marks.That is very true. However, I still don't put that at the feet of Lamar.

Logical
01-08-2006, 01:14 AM
Carl, in the end, is responsible.

The same way Herm is responsible for the abortion of a season the Jets had.

...I recently read that the Jets had 12 starters (not just players) from the team that began the season on IR, hard to blame him for the teams decline this year if that is true.

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:15 AM
That is very true. However, I still don't put that at the feet of Lamar.

Lamar hires carl to run the show.

Lamar (use to) handle the business end, league rules and meetings, etc...

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:16 AM
I recently read that the Jets had 12 starters (not just players) from the team that began the season on IR, hard to blame him for the teams decline this year if that is true.

If you slip and fall in my pizza place and crack your skull due to a wet floor my boss is still held responsible.

Doesn't matter if it's MY fault the floor was wet.

I'm not saying it's fair or always DUE to person X in charge.

In fact, that's my whole point...

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 01:37 AM
I see where you're coming from, but my point is that Hunt should have fired Peterson a LONG time ago and he hasn't, so therefore he agrees with most of CP's moves or else he wouldv'e fired him. Plus, you just went against basically everything you just said before that. You acted like little to none of blame should go to LH and most of it should go to CP. Then you give the owner example. I don't know if its just me, but it sounds like you just agreed with me. I don't know, I could've read it wrong.

KansasCityChiefs
01-08-2006, 01:42 AM
As to Huskerdooz, I've never contacted that other guy. It's just that we have the same argument. But, you should be able to tell that I explained it more than he did. There are plenty of people who think the idea is right, but there is also plenty of people who think its wrong. Of course there's going to be someone else who posted before me. I don't check that kind of stuff. But, I felt that I've been more thourough than ChiefsfaninPA (no offense).

Good find though huskerdooz, but I'm afraid you're a little off this time.

Logical
01-08-2006, 01:46 AM
If you slip and fall in my pizza place and crack your skull due to a wet floor my boss is still held responsible.

Doesn't matter if it's MY fault the floor was wet.

I'm not saying it's fair or always DUE to person X in charge.

In fact, that's my whole point...Not sure I see the correlation. You saying Herm put his players in a position to be injured, when football by its very nature causes injuries? An owner who does not keep his floors dry or adequate warning that they are wet has liability therefore responsibility. So wouldn't injured players be the Jet's owners responsibility?

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:51 AM
Not sure I see the correlation. You saying Herm put his players in a position to be injured, when football by its very nature causes injuries? An owner who does not keep his floors dry or adequate warning that they are wet has liability therefore responsibility. So wouldn't injured players be the Jet's owners responsibility?

No, I'm saying sometimes bad $#it happens. It just does (injuries.)

It's not the HC's fault, but in the end, the final record is what he's held responsible for.

It wouldn't be the owner's fault the floor is wet, when I made the mess, but he's still the guy that will get sued.

Same idea.

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing...

Logical
01-08-2006, 01:54 AM
No, I'm saying sometimes bad $#it happens. It just does (injuries.)

It's not the HC's fault, but in the end, the final record is what he's held responsible for.

It wouldn't be the owner's fault the floor is wet, when I made the mess, but he's still the guy that will get sued.

Same idea.

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing...

Responsibility to overcome adversity is what it appears you are talking about. I guess I just feel it is not reasonable to assume any coach can overcome almost 1/4 of his team being injured let alone over 1/2 his starters. I guess I am a little more lenient than you.

Halfcan
01-08-2006, 01:57 AM
Fault and responsibility are not the same thing...


Very true. Its always someone elses fault, and nobody wants to take responsibility for the mistake.

Rausch
01-08-2006, 01:59 AM
Responsibility to overcome adversity is what it appears you are talking about. I guess I just feel it is not reasonable to assume any coach can overcome almost 1/4 of his team being injured let alone over 1/2 his starters. I guess I am a little more lenient than you.

No, I agree.

But the chain of responsibility goes up the ladder when you start to place blame...

Halfcan
01-08-2006, 02:02 AM
Responsibility to overcome adversity is what it appears you are talking about. I guess I just feel it is not reasonable to assume any coach can overcome almost 1/4 of his team being injured let alone over 1/2 his starters. I guess I am a little more lenient than you.


Unless its the Perfect Pats. They bring guys from nowhere to shag interceptions in the secondary.

"Whats your name kid"
"Gay"
"I figured that you have a Patriots jersey on, but what your name."
"Randall Gay"
"Oh, I see, ever play football kid."
"No, but I put the chili on the hotdogs at the concession stand."
"Get in there kid."

It is unreal.

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 02:04 AM
No, I agree.

But the chain of responsibility goes up the ladder when you start to place blame...The masterlink in that chain is Lamar Hunt...

Rausch
01-08-2006, 02:05 AM
The masterlink in that chain is Lamar Hunt...

I'm going to have to stab you in the eardrum with a spork, aren't I?...

BigMeatballDave
01-08-2006, 02:07 AM
I'm going to have to stab you in the eardrum with a spork, aren't I?...
ROFL

Logical
01-08-2006, 02:07 AM
Unless its the Perfect Pats. They bring guys from nowhere to shag interceptions in the secondary.

"Whats your name kid"
"Gay"
"I figured that you have a Patriots jersey on, but what your name."
"Randall Gay"
"Oh, I see, ever play football kid."
"No, but I put the chili on the hotdogs at the concession stand."
"Get in there kid."

It is unreal.I think great coaching and some damn fine defensive schemes are what allow that to occur. But it is amazing.

Halfcan
01-08-2006, 02:10 AM
A powerful pass rush right up the middle helps a little too.

Rausch
01-08-2006, 02:13 AM
A powerful pass rush right up the middle helps a little too.

A pass rush by the D line you say... :hmmm:

Could be. Could be.

Nope. Need another tight end.

Definitely...

Logical
01-08-2006, 02:16 AM
A powerful pass rush right up the middle helps a little too.That would be wonderful, but honestly I would settle for DTs that could hold their own in the middle so the QB could not step up to avoid the outside pressure. Pressure from both sides really is a must though.

RedNeckRaider
01-08-2006, 02:29 AM
Wow I was certain that after reading the title of "who is to blame" I would see a it is George Bush...yea it is his fault!

Halfcan
01-08-2006, 02:39 AM
A pass rush by the D line you say... :hmmm:

Could be. Could be.

Nope. Need another tight end.

Definitely...

LOL, yeah another tight end. To replace Billy Baber. Use our 1st round pick, that would be awesome. This is Chrissy Wilson's year. We are going to unleash our super secret weapon.

philfree
01-08-2006, 09:17 AM
As a loyal fan of the Chiefs, I am disgruntled with the front office as almost every Chief fan is. Most people point the blame at GM Carl Peterson, but I have a new argument that disagrees with this. I agree that some of the fault should be given to Peterson, but I don't think he's the one to blame. The GM is the most recognized person in the front office, but I think someone else is to blame. And his name is Lamar Hunt. Now listen to me before you go to the next thread. Some will say, no way! Peterson is at fault because he makes all the decisions. This is true. But if Hunt disagreed with Peterson, than he would have fired him by now. Hunt must agree with Peterson because he's still our GM and his son, who's the Chairman of the Board, would have something to say if he thought Peterson was doing a bad job. Peterson is Hunt's guy and whatever Peterson does, Hunt does. Now some may say that Hunt is not really competent and doesn't know what he's doing. Well, this just furthurs my argument. If he's not competent, we're never going to win because he's going to keep hiring or not firing guys like Peterson. My point is that as long as Hunt is our owner, we are never going to go anywhere, not because Peterson, but because of Hunt. Hunt can fire Peterson at any time he wants to, he can decide not to resign him or whatever. But he doesn't, and that is going to be our problem in the end.

I want to hear your guy's feedback, so post back. If you guys disagree with me and think I'm crazy, that's OK, but I want to hear why you think I'm crazy. Oh yeah, I've been a longtime fan, but haven't signed up on here yet (my friend told me about it), so don't think I'm some kind of newbie.

Thanks,

GO CHIEFS


Without Lamar Hunt there would be no NFL in KC so when I read something like this I shake my head and think that who ever wrote it should (a) have to eat it or (b) have it shoved up their ass. :shake: The ignorance.


PhilFree:arrow:

milkman
01-08-2006, 09:29 AM
KansasCityChiefs,

Shut the **** up, n00b!


I can't believe it took this long for someone to say this

mlyonsd
01-08-2006, 09:35 AM
The only thing Lamar is guilty of is getting me hooked in the 60's on football and a particular team from in red from KC.

30+ years waiting for them to return to the SB. Blame him? Naw, but I think he owes me at least a home game in his Arrowhead box for me and 20 of my friends.

milkman
01-08-2006, 09:40 AM
The fact is, assigning blame to Lamar is not a new idea around here.

It's been discussed several times around here over the years.

I think a lot of what Lamar sees is a GM that usually makes decisions that put a competitive team on the field.

He doesn't want to make a change because the possibility exists that whoever he replaces him with could lead this team to an era that resembles the late 70s and 80s.

Carl, and Marty, lead this organization back to respectability.

Would I like to see another man in charge of football operations?

Yes.

Do I blame Lamar for keeping Carl on as long as he has?

No, not really.

CosmicPal
01-08-2006, 09:58 AM
Now some may say that Hunt is not really competent and doesn't know what he's doing.

Nobody's ever said that-

The guy is one of the forefathers of the AFL and was instrumental in getting a merger done with the NFL. He was one of the bright minds in the early days when the NFL would try anything to get the fans to buy tickets. He was also responsible for the name, Super Bowl. He even has a trophey named after him. So, don't add me to you list. The only thing Hunt should be faulted for is trying to make money- and Peterson helped him to do that.

kregger
01-08-2006, 10:27 AM
Lamar was responsible for letting Schaff and Steadman run this franchise into the bottom feeder class of the NFL. He was responsible for recognizing that 13,000 fans in a 78,000 seat stadium ain't going to cut it in the NFL. He is responsible for hiring a GM that cares about football and who subsequently hired a head coach who could galvanize a fan base around an awesome defense. He is responsible for handing the meat and potatoes of ownership to Clark.
He's had plenty of things to worry about besides his sports franchises(namely his health). If he didn't want to win so badly, he wouldn't have let Carl give HUGE signing bonuses and contracts to Green, Holmes, Waters, Roaf, and Gonzalez.
He wants to win as badly as any NFL owner wants to win. It's like high stakes poker to these guys. Only one guy gets to walk away with the prize. Some are more involved in the day to day workings of the product(Snyder, Jones, Davis). Others choose to watch and let the GM's have full run of the business.
Just be happy that he brought football to this town.That has allowed us this forum to bitch, moan,and cheer for a team that keeps on trying to get to the promised land.