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View Full Version : Gretz Says our D finished 18th by his numbers...


TinyEvel
01-18-2006, 11:40 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2006/01/18/gretz_defensive_rankings_show_chiefs_improvement/


I think this system is better than just total yards allowed.
But yeah, we could still be better.

Guru
01-18-2006, 11:43 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2006/01/18/gretz_defensive_rankings_show_chiefs_improvement/


I think this system is better than just total yards allowed.
But yeah, we could still be better.

Anything to make Carl look good. :banghead:

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 11:44 AM
Anything to make Carl look good. :banghead:

Not sure how ranking them 18th makes Carl look good.

jspchief
01-18-2006, 11:45 AM
Gretz coming out with a new formula to make our D look better is like Peterson suggesting there should be more than 12 teams in the play-offs. The notion may be right, but it's embarrassing coming from that particular source.

That being said, I think 18 is about right, but there seems to be some flaws in his system.

milkman
01-18-2006, 11:48 AM
This is just another example of spinning stats to prove one side of a debate.

This is why I am not a stats guy, and why I rely more heavily on what I see than on numbers.

Guru
01-18-2006, 11:49 AM
Not sure how ranking them 18th makes Carl look good.

Because it sounds a heck of a lot better than 30th making it look like Carl did us a service. Plus, quite a few people out there said all we need to to is get to middle of the road on defense to get to a superbowl with this offense. well obviously NOT!!!!

jspchief
01-18-2006, 11:50 AM
Because it sounds a heck of a lot better than 30th making it look like Carl did us a service. Plus, quite a few people out there said all we need to to is get to middle of the road on defense to get to a superbowl with this offense. well obviously NOT!!!!What were we ranked 30th in?

Guru
01-18-2006, 11:55 AM
What were we ranked 30th in?
Based on our improvement from last year. We were 30th or 31st. This year we were 25th I believe.

Carl wants us to see us as 18th.

My point was it is spin by Carl is all.

MOhillbilly
01-18-2006, 11:55 AM
The majority of the article reads ' blah blah bla blah'

yeah they were better but they were nowhere near good enough.

Rausch
01-18-2006, 11:56 AM
What makes a good defense (in order of importance):

1) Pts allowed
2) Turnovers
3) Sacks

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 12:00 PM
Based on our improvement from last year. We were 30th or 31st. This year we were 25th I believe.

Carl wants us to see us as 18th.

My point was it is spin by Carl is all.

Total yards are HORRIBLY overrated.

We were 16th in points allowed.

We were 29th in passing TD's against.

We were 13th in rushing TD's against.

We were 20th in yards per carry.

We were 17th in INT's.

We were 5th in fumbles recovered.

18th sounds about right to me, maybe a little lower like 20th.

Guru
01-18-2006, 12:21 PM
Total yards are HORRIBLY overrated.

Yes they are. Unfortunately, that is what the NFL uses though.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-18-2006, 12:23 PM
Gretz Says our D finished 18th by his numbers...

And we still missed the playoffs. Eat my balls, Gretz. And put some stank on it!

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 12:23 PM
Yes they are. Unfortunately, that is what the NFL uses though.

The NFL talking heads may use total yardage.

The NFL proper uses wins and losses.

dilligaf
01-18-2006, 12:41 PM
Total yards are HORRIBLY overrated.


Then we wouldnt have had the #1 offense either. :shake:

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 12:44 PM
Then we wouldnt have had the #1 offense either. :shake:

Wrong.

We were the number 1 overall offense, in terms of yardage, only in 2004.

In 2003 and 2002, we were 2nd and 5th, respectively.

In both seasons we were 1st in points scored, the thing that matters most.

Logical
01-18-2006, 12:57 PM
Anything to make Carl look good. :banghead:Don't see that, I don't like Carl or Gretz but the D ranking system being based only on total yards is pretty dumb. I am skeptical and would not be suprised if Gretz rigged his system to maximize the Chiefs ranking but it still is better than total yards. Still 18th is not very impressive.

philfree
01-18-2006, 12:59 PM
Either way you look at it Gretz has it figured right when he said The biggest hole in the Chiefs defense game was against the pass. They were 29th in sacks per pass plays and 30th in yards allowed passing. and that is the part of our D that needs to be fixed. More pressure with more sacks will lead to less passing yards by our D and it will make our overall D better.


PhilFree:arrow:

alpha_omega
01-18-2006, 01:18 PM
This is just another example of spinning stats to prove one side of a debate.

This is why I am not a stats guy, and why I rely more heavily on what I see than on numbers.

Yep...
Figures lie & liars figure.

joesomebody
01-18-2006, 01:32 PM
Gretz coming out with a new formula to make our D look better is like Peterson suggesting there should be more than 12 teams in the play-offs. The notion may be right, but it's embarrassing coming from that particular source.

That being said, I think 18 is about right, but there seems to be some flaws in his system.I know for a fact that Lamar has suggested an extended play off format in past off season owners meetings... so while the timing was wrong, this isn't the first time the Chiefs suggested this regardless of what Fat ass Peter King says.

joesomebody
01-18-2006, 01:34 PM
Total yards are HORRIBLY overrated.

We were 16th in points allowed.

We were 29th in passing TD's against.

We were 13th in rushing TD's against.

We were 20th in yards per carry.

We were 17th in INT's.

We were 5th in fumbles recovered.

18th sounds about right to me, maybe a little lower like 20th.Isn't this kind of the argument for Grob's bend but don't break defense?

J Diddy
01-18-2006, 01:34 PM
I know for a fact that Lamar has suggested an extended play off format in past off season owners meetings... so while the timing was wrong, this isn't the first time the Chiefs suggested this regardless of what Fat ass Peter King says.


It seems like he only presents it when the chiefs barely miss it.

beer bacon
01-18-2006, 01:37 PM
I did some calculations, and the Chiefs finished 16th on defense and 6th on offense.

jspchief
01-18-2006, 01:39 PM
I know for a fact that Lamar has suggested an extended play off format in past off season owners meetings... so while the timing was wrong, this isn't the first time the Chiefs suggested this regardless of what Fat ass Peter King says.That was kind of my point. It's not so much that it's a bad idea, as much as the timing and the source make it look self-serving.

I agree with Gretz's premise that you have to judge a D by more than just yards. But when it comes from a FO mouthpiece, on the Chiefs' site, it's bound to come off as a desperate attempt to appease fans.

Just Like Peterson might (or might not) have a legit point about adding teams to the play-offs, but when it surfaces (or resurfaces) shortly after the Chiefs just fall short of the post-season, it comes off like a sore loser trying to change the rules.

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 01:43 PM
Isn't this kind of the argument for Grob's bend but don't break defense?

No, it's not an argument FOR anything.

If you want to use it to argue that Gunther's defense really isn't much better than Bend-Don't Break, by all means. Because so far, I don't think it is much better.

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 01:44 PM
It seems like he only presents it when the chiefs barely miss it.

They have suggested it every year in recent memory, including the 13-3 2003 season.

The timing just looks bad. Not making the playoffs has nothing to do with it.

J Diddy
01-18-2006, 01:47 PM
They have suggested it every year in recent memory, including the 13-3 2003 season.

The timing just looks bad. Not making the playoffs has nothing to do with it.


Maybe then I just haven't noticed it until they barely miss the playoffs.

htismaqe
01-18-2006, 01:57 PM
Maybe then I just haven't noticed it until they barely miss the playoffs.

That's precisely it. Perception is reality.

The Chiefs would have been wise not to mention it this season.

MOhillbilly
01-18-2006, 02:03 PM
six seeds is plenty.
Teams dont make it they should have played harder. anymore and it will start to look like the hockey playoffs.

DJJasonp
01-18-2006, 03:17 PM
By Gretz's numbers, he still owes Carl Peterson 4 hummers and a weekend of landscaping at CP's ranch!

dilligaf
01-18-2006, 04:25 PM
Wrong.

We were the number 1 overall offense, in terms of yardage, only in 2004.

In 2003 and 2002, we were 2nd and 5th, respectively.

In both seasons we were 1st in points scored, the thing that matters most.
According to the NFL, the Chiefs were #1 in total yardage in'05. I agree that points is what matters most.