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tk13
01-21-2006, 02:15 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/13676819.htm

GM denies promise made
Peterson says he told Saunders he would be considered

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

An emphatic Carl Peterson denied Friday he ever promised Al Saunders that he would become the eventual successor to Dick Vermeil as Chiefs head coach.

“I’m telling you he wasn’t,” said Peterson, the Chiefs’ president and general manager. “Dick Vermeil will verify that. Al Saunders should verify that. I couldn’t do that for a number of reasons. No. 1, I owe it to the Hunt family to find … the best prospect for being the next football coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. The second part of that is that there’s no way I could promise him that because we have a very important diversity policy in the National Football League. I adhere to that, I support it.”

Saunders, the former Chiefs offensive coordinator, has declined interview requests since taking a job with Washington this week.
Contacted at his home in Pennsylvania, Vermeil said Peterson never promised Saunders the job in his presence.

“He told him he would be a leading candidate,” Vermeil said. “He told him he would be the first to interview or the leading interview or whatever those terms were. I was sitting right there. There were no promises made. Carl never said that.

“I brought him here with the hope that I would coach three years and he would take my place. I always felt he was head coach-caliber. That was between Al and I, and I told that to Carl but he never made the commitment, at least not when I was there.”

Sources indicated the promise was made when Saunders was contemplating taking the head coaching job at Nebraska in January 2004. It was unclear whether Vermeil was present at that time.
Saunders accepted a new, two-year contract with the Chiefs instead of going to Nebraska.

Asked what he promised Saunders, Peterson said, “That he would be considered and he would be interviewed for the job when Dick Vermeil stepped away from the job. The only thing that was promised to Al was that he would be considered and would be interviewed for the job. He knew that when he had the opportunity, the possible opportunity at the University of Nebraska and the opportunity to interview for the Oakland Raiders job.”

Peterson paused when asked why he opted to hire Herm Edwards as Vermeil’s replacement rather than Saunders.

“There are a lot of reasons, some of which I will not get into,” Peterson said. “Very candidly, when … Herman Edwards became a guy I could possibly get, that is absolutely and unquestionably my first choice. Herman is a guy that in my opinion can bridge both offense and defense and an entire football team. The other thing is that he’s had five years of head coaching experience, recent head coaching experience.

“It was an easy decision for me when I could work out the compensation with the New York Jets for his services.”

For Vermeil’s replacement, Peterson said he interviewed, in order, Saunders in Kansas City, Ravens offensive coordinator Jim Fassel in Baltimore, former Browns coach Butch Davis in Philadelphia and Colts defensive coordinator Ron Meeks in Indianapolis.

Peterson indicated plans to interview offensive coordinators Cam Cameron of San Diego and Gary Kubiak of Denver, but the process never got that far. Peterson first reached agreement with the Jets to trade a fourth-round draft pick for Edwards.

Had he not been able to reach an agreement with the Jets, Peterson said, “(Saunders) would have been one of the top two (choices).”

The other was Fassel.

“I was very impressed with (Fassel),” Peterson said of the former New York Giants coach. “He has head coaching experience, playoff experience, taken a team to the Super Bowl.”

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Rausch
01-21-2006, 02:42 AM
Considering Fassel was his 2nd or 3rd choice I'm ****ing ecstatic with Edwards...

foxman
01-21-2006, 09:08 AM
Odviously Saunders felt there was something there for him to not take the Nebraska job in 04. Whether Carl actually said he was going to be the coach or not will never truely be known to us, but I suspect Al felt pretty strongly that it was in the bag, why else would he not take the job? The guy is now 59 and considered older for a HC position especially now with most teams going with young assistants. This smells of Carl pushing the limits of the truth.

DaKCMan AP
01-21-2006, 09:21 AM
why else would he not take the job?

cause Nebraska sucks?

PHOG
01-21-2006, 09:25 AM
Considering Fassel was his 2nd or 3rd choice I'm ****ing ecstatic with Edwards...

No ****ing shit. Fassel? :shake:

Cochise
01-21-2006, 09:29 AM
Considering Fassel was his 2nd or 3rd choice I'm ****ing ecstatic with Edwards...

Yep, it can always get worse. :shake:

milkman
01-21-2006, 09:31 AM
No ****ing shit. Fassel? :shake:

First, let me say that I am/was not in any way a proponent of Fassel as a candidate to be Chiefs HC.
But I was absolutely against Hermie, as well.

With that in mind I ask, how is Hermie better for the job than Fassel?

foxman
01-21-2006, 09:31 AM
cause Nebraska sucks?

No qualms about that, but still if you coach your whole life with the idea that a HC is the upmost in your profession then why settle for less?


I aint buying what Carl is selling, Nebraska or not.

Dave Lane
01-21-2006, 09:34 AM
Considering Fassel was his 2nd or 3rd choice I'm ****ing ecstatic with Edwards...

Oh My god! Yes I may have to change my avatar based on this alone!

Dave

Deberg_1990
01-21-2006, 09:35 AM
Considering Fassel was his 2nd or 3rd choice I'm ****ing ecstatic with Edwards...

Fassel has taken a team to the Super Bowl as a HC. More than Hermie has done. He managed to do it with Kerry Collins as his QB as well.

PHOG
01-21-2006, 09:41 AM
First, let me say that I am/was in any way a proponent of Fassel as a candidate to be Chiefs HC.
But I was absolutely against Hermie, as well.

With that in mind I ask, how is Hermie better for the job than Fassel?


I don't know, I guess because Edwards IS the HC, and I'm not going to bitch and moan about it until I see that Edwards can't do the job. Right now, he is 0-0 with the Chiefs, this is the direction they have chosen to go, and it doesn't matter if I or you or anyone else doesn't like it, because it is a done deal.

Drag it down all you want, but it is what it is. I'll choose to support it, until I have some facts that prevents me from doing so.

JMHO

:)

milkman
01-21-2006, 09:49 AM
I don't know, I guess because Edwards IS the HC, and I'm not going to bitch and moan about it until I see that Edwards can't do the job. Right now, he is 0-0 with the Chiefs, this is the direction they have chosen to go, and it doesn't matter if I or you or anyone else doesn't like it, because it is a done deal.

Drag it down all you want, but it is what it is. I'll choose to support it, until I have some facts that prevents me from doing so.

JMHO

:)

I'm not trying to drag it down.

I'm just trying to drag down the bullshit that people are using to justify the selection.

PHOG
01-21-2006, 09:52 AM
I'm not trying to drag it down.

I'm just trying to drag down the bullshit that people are using to justify the selection.

Oh.

Cool.

htismaqe
01-21-2006, 11:46 AM
Maybe Vermeil told Saunders that he'd be the next coach, but Carl never did.

Ah, nevermind. It doesn't matter if we know all the facts...FIRE CARL NOW!

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 12:17 PM
Maybe Vermeil told Saunders that he'd be the next coach, but Carl never did.

Ah, nevermind. It doesn't matter if we know all the facts...FIRE CARL NOW!

If we did, it would be like getting Al Capone on income tax evasion.

tk13
01-21-2006, 03:45 PM
First, let me say that I am/was not in any way a proponent of Fassel as a candidate to be Chiefs HC.
But I was absolutely against Hermie, as well.

With that in mind I ask, how is Hermie better for the job than Fassel?
If we'd hired Fassel, Gun would be running the defense by himself still...

Count Alex's Losses
01-21-2006, 03:47 PM
It doesn't matter if we know all the facts...FIRE CARL NOW!

I will use any excuse to get Carl fired! Ignorance included!

Deberg_1990
01-21-2006, 03:48 PM
If we'd hired Fassel, Gun would be running the defense by himself still...

Fassel probably would have dumped him. Didnt Fassel have John Fox running his D when the Giants went to the Super Bowl? Fassel obviously knows a little something about D.

milkman
01-21-2006, 03:59 PM
If we'd hired Fassel, Gun would be running the defense by himself still...

My question is, based on their resumes alone, what made Edwards a better candidate than Fassel in the minds of many here on this forum.

If it is Hermie's defensive background, I would point to the defenses the Giants fielded while Fassel was there.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:03 PM
Yeah but he's still an offensive coach. If you wanted an offensive coach with a good track record with defenses, we might as well have kept Vermeil, he has a better defensive record than Fassel does.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:07 PM
Yeah but he's still an offensive coach. If you wanted an offensive coach with a good track record with defenses, we might as well have kept Vermeil, he has a better defensive record than Fassel does.

Isn't Dick's background more in STs?

He won with D in Philly, and won with O in STL.

I would contend that in his earlier stints as HC, he just did a better job of putting the right people in charge of both sides of the ball than he did in KC.

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 04:08 PM
If we'd hired Fassel, Gun would be running the defense by himself still...

Are you suggesting that Carl would have forced all head coaches to keep Gun?

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:13 PM
Isn't Dick's background more in STs?

He won with D in Philly, and won with O in STL.

I would contend that in his earlier stints as HC, he just did a better job of putting the right people in charge of both sides of the ball than he did in KC.
Well in 99 the offense blew up, but really all it did was catch up to the defense. People forget that, but before 99 when Martz and Faulk and all of them got there, they were better on the defensive side of the football. That's why they spent that whole offseason fixing the offense... Trent Green, Faulk, drafting Holt, signing Mike Martz. The defense ranked 18-11-7 in yardage in Vermeil's three years, and 4th in scoring that 99 season. But they were pathetic on offense. Those Rams teams were way better defensively than anybody gives them credit for. But by the time Vermeil got here all anybody remembered is the Rams after Martz took over, all offense, no defense. And that wasn't how Vermeil's Rams teams were at all.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:18 PM
Are you suggesting that Carl would have forced all head coaches to keep Gun?
Nah, I didn't say that. I think Gun is still well respected enough that Fassel would've considered keeping him. I don't think he'd been forced, but I think he would've been told that Gun didn't have his coaches, blah blah blah.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:24 PM
Well in 99 the offense blew up, but really all it did was catch up to the defense. People forget that, but before 99 when Martz and Faulk and all of them got there, they were better on the defensive side of the football. That's why they spent that whole offseason fixing the offense... Trent Green, Faulk, drafting Holt, signing Mike Martz. The defense ranked 18-11-7 in yardage in Vermeil's three years, and 4th in scoring that 99 season. But they were pathetic on offense. Those Rams teams were way better defensively than anybody gives them credit for. But by the time Vermeil got here all anybody remembered is the Rams after Martz took over, all offense, no defense. And that wasn't how Vermeil's Rams teams were at all.

That just lends support to my belief that Dick did a better job of placing people in charge of both sides of the ball.

He, and Carl, never got the right person for the defense in KC.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:26 PM
Nah, I didn't say that. I think Gun is still well respected enough that Fassel would've considered keeping him. I don't think he'd been forced, but I think he would've been told that Gun didn't have his coaches, blah blah blah.

If Gunt is so respected, why wasn't he given another opportunity elsewhere before he came back to KC?

Woodrow Call
01-21-2006, 04:28 PM
If Gunt is so respected, why wasn't he given another opportunity elsewhere before he came back to KC?

My memory is not the best but I seem to remember both the Jets and Falcons wanting him before he chose KC. I could be wrong about that though.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:32 PM
If Gunt is so respected, why wasn't he given another opportunity elsewhere before he came back to KC?
He interviewed with both the Jets and Falcons for a DC job.

I don't think that argument holds much water either, if you're going to try to defend Jim Fassel.

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 04:33 PM
Nah, I didn't say that. I think Gun is still well respected enough that Fassel would've considered keeping him. I don't think he'd been forced, but I think he would've been told that Gun didn't have his coaches, blah blah blah.

My guess is that it was a requirement in order to be considered for the job.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:36 PM
My guess is that it was a requirement in order to be considered for the job.
I have no idea. I think it might not have been a "requirement" per se, but really the finalists were all guys who had good relationships with Gunther. Herm likes Gun, interviewed him in NY. Al probably would've kept Gun, and who knows with Fassel, although with him being an offensive coach I could see him being persuaded to keep Gun.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:36 PM
He interviewed with both the Jets and Falcons for a DC job.

I don't think that argument holds much water either, if you're going to try to defend Jim Fassel.

I'm not trying to defend Jim Fassel.

I'm trying to figure out what made Hermie a better candidate than Fassel.

It seems that it comes down to the fact that we had to hire someone with a defensive background in order to hold Gunts hand, cause Gunt can't get the job done.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:38 PM
He interviewed with both the Jets and Falcons for a DC job.

I don't think that argument holds much water either, if you're going to try to defend Jim Fassel.

It took three years after getting fired as HC for him to get look a elsewhere.
That doesn't say that he's highly respected to me.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm not trying to defend Jim Fassel.

I'm trying to figure out what made Hermie a better candidate than Fassel.

It seems that it comes down to the fact that we had to hire someone with a defensive background in order to hold Gunts hand, cause Gunt can't get the job done.
That's a harsh way of putting it, there might be some truth to it. Well to be honest, I doubt Carl sees it that way. He just sees the defense as improving... and he brought in a defensive head coach with a good defensive pedigree to finish the job. Meanwhile trying to retain continuity on offense.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:43 PM
It took three years after getting fired as HC for him to get look a elsewhere.
That doesn't say that he's highly respected to me.
It took Jim Fassel three years, and he still isn't going to get a HC job...

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:45 PM
That's a harsh way of putting it, there might be some truth to it. Well to be honest, I doubt Carl sees it that way. He just sees the defense as improving... and he brought in a defensive head coach with a good defensive pedigree to finish the job. Meanwhile trying to retain continuity on offense.

I am not actually discussing Carl here, but you may be right.

My question concerning Hermie's resume vs. Fassel's resume is directed at the people here that think that Hermie is a better selection than Fassel.

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 04:46 PM
It took Jim Fassel three years, and he still isn't going to get a HC job...

Had Gun's contract not be renewed here, he'd have never been a coordinator again, after the debacle here.

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 04:49 PM
I am not actually discussing Carl here, but you may be right.

My question concerning Hermie's resume vs. Fassel's resume is directed at the people here that think that Hermie is a better selection than Fassel.

It would have been interesting to see what type of offers Herm would have gotten as a free agent.

milkman
01-21-2006, 04:49 PM
It took Jim Fassel three years, and he still isn't going to get a HC job...

You keep making the mistake of assuming that I am/was in any way wanting/ wanted Fassel as HC.

I didn't/don't.

But I didn't want Hermie, either.

What I am trying to find out is why people here that wanted Hermie think he is so much better than Fassel.

I don't get it.

Fassel did more with the Giants than Hermie did with the Jets.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Had Gun's contract not be renewed here, he'd have never been a coordinator again, after the debacle here.
I don't think you can say that. Look at some of the people that have been getting hired in certain positions. The guy who was the OC of the 32nd ranked offense got a HC job.

You really never know. For instance, New England has a DC opening. Bill Belichick has a lot of respect for Gun. Shanahan wanted to hire Gun to be DC. And these are the good coaches. I'm sure there are some bad ones out there who'd be all for hiring Gun.

tk13
01-21-2006, 04:56 PM
You keep making the mistake of assuming that I am/was in any way wanting/ wanted Fassel as HC.

I didn't/don't.

But I didn't want Hermie, either.

What I am trying to find out is why people here that wanted Hermie think he is so much better than Fassel.

I don't get it.

Fassel did more with the Giants than Hermie did with the Jets.
Yeah but Herm is a defensive head coach. That's my reasoning. I actually like Fassel... but the only offensive head coach I wanted was Saunders, if it wasn't him I was hoping for a defensive minded head coach. And Herm has a great track record of being around good defenses.

milkman
01-21-2006, 05:04 PM
Yeah but Herm is a defensive head coach. That's my reasoning. I actually like Fassel... but the only offensive head coach I wanted was Saunders, if it wasn't him I was hoping for a defensive minded head coach. And Herm has a great track record of being around good defenses.

And why is that?

Isn't possible that an offensive minded coach could have hired a DC that could actually fix this D?

Unless you subcribe to the belief that whoever was hired to HC here was going to be stuck with Gunt as DC, I see no reason that Al, or any other offensive minded coach wouldn't be a consideration.

tk13
01-21-2006, 05:10 PM
And why is that?

Isn't possible that an offensive minded coach could have hired a DC that could actually fix this D?

Unless you subcribe to the belief that whoever was hired to HC here was going to be stuck with Gunt as DC, I see no reason that Al, or any other offensive minded coach wouldn't be a consideration.
Because in my personal opinion, if we were going to hire an offensive coach, there really isn't anyone I'd want more than Al Saunders. He's qualified for the job, Al would be my #1 choice.

FringeNC
01-21-2006, 05:14 PM
Bill Belichick has a lot of respect for Gun

Source?

milkman
01-21-2006, 05:16 PM
Because in my personal opinion, if we were going to hire an offensive coach, there really isn't anyone I'd want more than Al Saunders. He's qualified for the job, Al would be my #1 choice.

Then my question isn't directed at you.

tk13
01-21-2006, 05:17 PM
Source?
Ahh, I'll go find it I guess. Belichick offered Gun the DC job in New England. Gun had just been mentally destroyed from the disaster here and turned it down. Otherwise he'd probably have 3 Super Bowl rings and we'd all worship the guy. Belichick's always had good things to say about Gun.

tk13
01-21-2006, 05:22 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/mediaroom/clippings/September%206,%202004.pdf

There's a pdf from the Broncos website from the Denver Post article.

How much does Mike Shanahan respect Cunningham? The answer lies in the days following the 2000 NFL season, when Shanahan was looking for a defensive coordinator to replace Greg Robinson.

"I would have hired him, but I had already promised the job to Ray Rhodes," Shanahan said. "He was the guy I really wanted."

He could have become New England's defensive coordinator after that 2000 season, but chose to step back and become a position coach.

"I was pretty tired at that point after being fired," Cunningham said. "Bill Belichick offered me the job, but I called my wife and told her I couldn't do it. As it turned out, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I was able to have a great time with a bunch of young kids who evolved into really good players. I got the chance to sit back and find myself.

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 08:37 AM
Herm is a good coach, way better than fassel ever dreamt of being. What did Herm have in New York. Oh yeah Chad Pennington that is hurt the first game of every season? Did he have more than like two stars on the whole team, no. He will do fine with the Chiefs, in the Red Sea. We will be back in the hunt in 06.

milkman
01-22-2006, 09:03 AM
Herm is a good coach, way better than fassel ever dreamt of being. What did Herm have in New York. Oh yeah Chad Pennington that is hurt the first game of every season? Did he have more than like two stars on the whole team, no. He will do fine with the Chiefs, in the Red Sea. We will be back in the hunt in 06.

Fassel took a team with Kerry Collins at QB to a SB.

Until Hermie can match that accomplishment, then my money says that Fassel is the better coach.

Extra Point
01-22-2006, 09:38 AM
Fassel took a team with Kerry Collins at QB to a SB.

Until Hermie can match that accomplishment, then my money says that Fassel is the better coach.

Let's see how well the Chiefs draft. That will be an indicator of how well CP and HE play together. Judging from the Jets record this past season, HE(Hee) and his GM didn't do so well this past draft day....

CP: "I owe it the Hunt family (and my buddy from way-back-when-who-luckily-scooped-up-a-gift-fumble) to find the best coach for this team."

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 09:44 AM
Herm is a winner, you will see this season. There is a reason Fassel is no longer in New York. Herm will take us to the bowl, maybe not right away but we will be bowl bound here in a few years.