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tk13
01-22-2006, 01:13 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13682142.htm

Saunders is a legend in the mediaís mind
JASON WHITLOCK
Kansas City Star

Breaking news: Al Saunders did not invent the game of football.

This news, Iím sure, will shock many of my media brethren here in Kansas City, particularly those who earn a living hosting radio shows.

Saunders, however, did perfect the art of making insecure media members feel like theyíre the next Howard Cosell. Saunders scored more points with members of the media than the Chiefs did on the football field during Saundersí tenure as offensive coordinator.

Saunders returned every phone call, made love to every microphone put in his face, swapped locker-room hugs with Karen Kornacki, acted interested in Jack Harryís ticket- and parking-prices rants, shared conspiracy theories with the New Don Fortune, counseled The Freak Renshaw during a meltdown, memorized the name of Neal St. Davey B. Franz and offered me dieting tips.

Saunders worked the media. And judging by the drastic overreaction to his departure, he accomplished his goal. He convinced members of the media that the Chiefs absolutely cannot play football without him.

Unfortunately for Saunders, heís having a much harder time convincing NFL general managers and owners that heís Godís gift to football.

Thereís a reason that there were 10 NFL head-coaching jobs available, and Raiders owner Al Davis was the only man to pretend to be significantly interested in Saunders. The reason has nothing to do with Saundersí age (59) or his rocky relationship with Carl Peterson.

Around the league, Saunders is known as a climber, a self-promoter, a snake. The labels have stuck with him since his days as head coach in San Diego, where reporters there contend Saunders used insecure media puppets to back-stab Don Coryell to get the Chargers job.

So Iím not surprised that Saunders is on his way to our nationís capital to lead Joe Gibbsí offense while sources claim that Peterson promised Saunders the head-coaching position here. Oh, and what a twist, Saunders, a reporterís best friend, is shockingly unavailable for comment.

Yeah, when I learned that Saunders was inside Arrowhead Stadium on Friday, I made a special trip to Arrowhead to question him about Petersonís alleged promise. I left a message on Saundersí voice mail. I havenít heard from him.

Not only did I want to know about Petersonís promise, but I wanted to hear Saunders explain why nearly a third of the NFLís teams took a look at his stellar resume and hired 30-year-old kids. Now, keep in mind, Iím someone who believed ó until this messy departure from KC ó Saunders was worthy of getting a second crack as a head coach.

But this messy departure says a lot about Saunders. Consider that the St. Louis Rams didnít even grant Saunders an interview for their vacant head-coaching position. The Rams, despite pleas from Dick Vermeil, first pursued defensive-minded Gregg Williams and then changed course and hired Dolphins offensive coordinator Scott Linehan.

The evil and allegedly reneging Carl Peterson does not run the Rams franchise. He has no pull in St. Louis. John Shaw, the president of the Rams, knows Al Saunders quite well. Saunders worked in St. Louis with Vermeil and Mike Martz. Saunders couldnít get an interview. Thatís telling.

While Saunders has no problem connecting with star-struck members of the media, his connections with football folks arenít nearly as strong.

A week ago, long before there was a strong hint that Mike Solari would replace Saunders as offensive coordinator, a low-level member of the Chiefs family and a Saunders fan told me a revealing story.

During training camp, Vermeil singled out an assistant coach to speak to the team each night. The assistants were rather competitive about the speeches. They put a great deal of thought into connecting with the team.

My details may be a little sketchy, but the overall point is accurate. Saunders talked with the team about growing up with an illness (polio) that could be helped by daily swimming. Saunders said his dad took a job at a location that had a swimming pool so that Al could swim every day. Al said he swam every day to save his own life, and thatís how he wanted the team to approach the season.

The person who told me this story said he was very touched by Alís story and was surprised when he found players chuckling about Saundersí story when the meeting broke up.

ďThey thought it was made up or exaggerated,Ē he told me.

When it was Solariís day to speak, he showed a movie clip ó I believe from Clint Eastwood ó of a bunch of guys taking turns pounding a huge rock with sledgehammers. Solari said thatís how he wanted the team to approach the season.

ďWe gotta pound that rock.Ē

The players repeated Solariís theme throughout the season. In this instance, Solari connected and Saunders didnít.

Solari is quiet. Heís one of the most respected coaches in the league, but he totally avoids the spotlight. He pounds the rock year round and leads the strongest aspect of the Chiefs franchise ó the offensive line. No disrespect to Saunders, but the play of the Big Willies ó Willie, Will, Waters, Wiegmann and Welbourn ó has been far more impressive and effective than KCís play-calling or game planning.

Furthermore, Herman Edwards would be foolish if he failed to adjust Saundersí record-setting, playoff-winless offense. You have to adjust for Larry Johnsonís talents. You have to adjust so that your all-world tight end, Tony Gonzalez, is a bigger threat in the red zone. You have to adjust because Trent Green will be 36 next season.

I hope Saunders enjoys success in Washington. Gregg Williams, Gibbsí heir apparent, should watch his back. Washington owner Dan Snyder falls in love easily, and you can bet Saunders will tell Snyder everything he wants to hear.

As for things here, call me when the Chiefs players express outrage about Saundersí departure. Edwards wouldíve been stupid to retain Saunders as offensive coordinator. You donít keep a guy on the assistant-coaching staff who openly believes he should be the head coach unless the players love him the way the Chicago Bears loved Buddy Ryan.

Those of us in the media donít suit up. Our love of Saunders is irrelevant.

Rausch
01-22-2006, 01:19 AM
OUCH.

I have no idea how accurate this article is but as much as Whitlock loves to bash CP and crew this would be an odd angle to take without any leg to stand on...

Tribal Warfare
01-22-2006, 01:22 AM
Saunders leaving doesn't affect me much, but if Solari left I would've been pissed

SNR
01-22-2006, 01:43 AM
I think we need insider info from Nick Athan to confirm this.

John Matrix
01-22-2006, 01:44 AM
Holy f*cking shit...that is harsh. I don't think Whitlock will be on Al's X-mas card list next year/

Mojo Rising
01-22-2006, 02:10 AM
I read on one of the posts last week that AS tried to get the GM fired when he was in SD. This was a big factor in his getting passed over for all of the openings this year. I now believe it, and wonder why JW didn't bring this up.

Because of his position, JW is privy to info. that the general public isn't. This info. is usually the basis for his best columns. The rest of his stuff is crap.

DaWolf
01-22-2006, 02:38 AM
Thank you Whitlock. Yet more reasons to be grateful this guy didn't become our head coach...

ChiefsCountry
01-22-2006, 02:57 AM
Wow j whit wrote a pretty article. Might have to give him rep if he shows up here.

htismaqe
01-22-2006, 05:05 AM
Uh-oh, I'm in trouble.

I agree with Whitlock 100%.

He basically hit on EVERY point I've brought up over the last 2 weeks.

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 05:20 AM
I am a new user, didn't realize many of the things you spoke about in your post. It makes sense though, many teams were looking for a head coach but he didn't seem to impress anyone enough to bring him on board. Maybe another Norv Turner syndrome, great offensive coach but awful head coach? What is your opinion on Mike Solari, can he keep the offense putting up big numbers? I agree Tony should be used more in the red zone, he is big just put it up to him. What do you expect for 2006, my Dad thinks the Chiefs are on their way down, nothing personal just the age of much of the talent. I hope not, we've been there for so long just to get knocked out in the playoffs. I think Herm will get the defense playing much better this season. The run defense has already improved, just the pass defense. I don't get that though bringing in Knight and Surtain, these guys are good cover guys. What do you think?

DaWolf
01-22-2006, 05:54 AM
I am a new user, didn't realize many of the things you spoke about in your post. It makes sense though, many teams were looking for a head coach but he didn't seem to impress anyone enough to bring him on board. Maybe another Norv Turner syndrome, great offensive coach but awful head coach? What is your opinion on Mike Solari, can he keep the offense putting up big numbers? I agree Tony should be used more in the red zone, he is big just put it up to him. What do you expect for 2006, my Dad thinks the Chiefs are on their way down, nothing personal just the age of much of the talent. I hope not, we've been there for so long just to get knocked out in the playoffs. I think Herm will get the defense playing much better this season. The run defense has already improved, just the pass defense. I don't get that though bringing in Knight and Surtain, these guys are good cover guys. What do you think?

I suspect we'll see further defensive improvements and a little drop in offensive production. But the key is health, if our key guys (Roaf, Green, LJ, Gonzo) can avoid injuries, I really see us having a very good year and perhaps being the team we should have been the last 4 years. I am liking what Herm Edwards brings to the table so far. Of course it's only the offseason so what do I know...

ZootedGranny
01-22-2006, 06:02 AM
When it was Solariís day to speak, he showed a movie clip ó I believe from Clint Eastwood ó of a bunch of guys taking turns pounding a huge rock with sledgehammers. Solari said thatís how he wanted the team to approach the season.

ďWe gotta pound that rock.Ē

That is gullier than Jack Bauer.

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 06:06 AM
You are right, as long as our starters stay healthy it should be a playoff season. I like Herm as well he is different than Vermeil-not in a bad way. I just thought Vermeil was to buddy buddy with the guys sometimes. Herm seems to be very bold and blunt about things, he wants the team to succeed, I think he already he the players. I just saw this morning in his press conference that LJ is the starter for 06. Do you think Priest will be back knowing that? The whole dual running back didn't work in KC. Larry would have taken the rushing title undoubtedly if he played every game like Alexander did.

KC Jones
01-22-2006, 06:15 AM
ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

I do think Saunders is a hell of a OC. Just look at the Raiders game this year. They absolutely killed our game plan. We tossed it out the window, went with stuff we hadn't practiced and made it work. OTOH, I do think Saunders can be too biased towards system over players. Do you remember how long it took them to figure out Trent Green wasn't Donovan McNabb and that Priest Holmes was a stud? Roughly a year and a half went by that he tried to run the Rams offense with some very shitty receivers before figuring out we should be pounding the ball and running screens to open up the deep play action game.

DaWolf
01-22-2006, 06:16 AM
I think Priest might come back in a reduced role. He was there when he backed up Jamal Lewis and the Ravens rode them both to a Super Bowl. I think Priest can help this team AND reduce the wear and tear on LJ. I think a big reason LJ was so effective the last 9 games or so was because he was fresh. If he takes that kind of pounding from day 1 I don't see him being as effective near the end of the season. But LJ needs to be the starter and touch it 25+ times a game from day 1...

KC Jones
01-22-2006, 06:19 AM
I think Priest might come back in a reduced role. He was there when he backed up Jamal Lewis and the Ravens rode them both to a Super Bowl. I think Priest can help this team AND reduce the wear and tear on LJ. I think a big reason LJ was so effective the last 9 games or so was because he was fresh. If he takes that kind of pounding from day 1 I don't see him being as effective near the end of the season. But LJ needs to be the starter and touch it 25+ times a game from day 1...

I hope Priest does come back. He's one of the best short yardage backs to ever play the game. He's absolute gold in the red zone.

FringeNC
01-22-2006, 06:22 AM
This article is almost as negative about Al Saunders as the Rich Cimini article was about Herman Edwards.

We'll find out how competent Al Saunders is. Washington had a very average offense this year. How good will they be next year? Despite Whitlock's claim that GMs don't like Saunders, I predict he will have many offers at a HC job if Washington is in the top 5 in offense. We'll see on both counts.

I just find it ironic that Whitlock loves Herman Edwards, and then calls Al Saunders a bullshit artist.

siberian khatru
01-22-2006, 06:25 AM
Some of that may be over the top. But you really have to wonder why Al hasn't gotten a sniff of a HC job. There's gotta be something going on there, and I just don't believe it's only about age or that the Neanderthal league can't appreciate a "cerebral Renaissance man" like Al.

I'm glad Jason addressed the issue head on. And JoPo should be embarrassed by that crapola love note to Al he wrote last week.

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 06:57 AM
If Priest can come back, the injury isn't career ending I don't see him riding the pine. He will want sufficient playing time or else send him to someone that will utilize his talents. I like them both but that seems to be the rule when a player gets injured and the backup is a producer the old starter never gets the starting job back. Joe Montana to Steve Young? Larry is very talented but what a slap in the face to Priest irregardless of the fact he was hurt.

Mecca
01-22-2006, 06:59 AM
If Priest can come back, the injury isn't career ending I don't see him riding the pine. He will want sufficient playing time or else send him to someone that will utilize his talents. I like them both but that seems to be the rule when a player gets injured and the backup is a producer the old starter never gets the starting job back. Joe Montana to Steve Young? Larry is very talented but what a slap in the face to Priest irregardless of the fact he was hurt.

Larry Johnson is better than Priest Holmes is now, it's not a slap in the face it's reality. Holmes isn't durable enough to make it through a season as a starter anymore.

Buck
01-22-2006, 07:04 AM
I don't remember where I read it, might have been EPSN.com, but LJ is saying that Edwards told him he's the starting back/#1 guy already. That could head off a salary/contract dispute.

the Talking Can
01-22-2006, 07:07 AM
so this is the parting gift for being the best OC in th league for 4 years...cool..

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 07:18 AM
You are probably right that Holmes is injury prone now. Larry is just as good, just runs the ball a different style than Priest. In the red zone Priest is a master, Larry runs over people, sometimes needs to be more patient and wait for the hole to open up. It just seems a little early for Herm to announce his starter at rb. Larry has proven his worth in my eyes despite Vermeils ignorant comment that he needs"to take the diapers off." Larry is young and will be a producer for us.

FringeNC
01-22-2006, 07:25 AM
Some of that may be over the top. But you really have to wonder why Al hasn't gotten a sniff of a HC job. There's gotta be something going on there, and I just don't believe it's only about age or that the Neanderthal league can't appreciate a "cerebral Renaissance man" like Al.

I'm glad Jason addressed the issue head on. And JoPo should be embarrassed by that crapola love note to Al he wrote last week.

It is interesting why Al Saunders isn't getting good offers. I find it hard to believe it's because of his personality. Even if he is a disingenuous asshole, does this make him that different from a lot of coaches?

I have to be believe the rumor around the league is that he is not responsible for the offense. That it's Vermeil or Solari or the players....but then again, Snyder is throwing money at him to be OC, so who knows.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 07:58 AM
Pretty much spot on.

Al is a fine offensive coordinator, but he's overrated as hell. When Willie Roaf went down, Al didn't look so good.

jspchief
01-22-2006, 08:11 AM
so this is the parting gift for being the best OC in th league for 4 years...cool..Try a little less melodrama in your morning coffee.

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 08:21 AM
You are probably right that Holmes is injury prone now. Larry is just as good, just runs the ball a different style than Priest. In the red zone Priest is a master, Larry runs over people, sometimes needs to be more patient and wait for the hole to open up. It just seems a little early for Herm to announce his starter at rb. Larry has proven his worth in my eyes despite Vermeils ignorant comment that he needs"to take the diapers off." Larry is young and will be a producer for us.
Holmes is "probably" injury prone? Not much doubt left in Bob Dole's mind...

LJ got a lot more patient as the season wore on. The only mistake Edwards made was telling him so early and giving LJ some contract renegotiation leverage so soon...

C-Mac
01-22-2006, 08:55 AM
Pretty much spot on.

Al is a fine offensive coordinator, but he's overrated as hell. When Willie Roaf went down, Al didn't look so good.

Al is a great coordinator but he is too head strong for his own good sometimes as your point brings out. Al must have the right talent in the right places for his style of offense to suceed, other wise it appears it takes him too long to figure out new angles of approach.

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 08:56 AM
LJ is capable of being the starter, no doubt. When was Larry's contract reworked?

Extra Point
01-22-2006, 09:05 AM
I don't blame AS for not returning JW's calls. He's done here, he's read how ecstatic JW is over HE's hire. JW must not have followed AS's dieting tips, evidently;he'd rather sit on his fat ass and bitch about someone than praise him.

JW is back in his element.

the Talking Can
01-22-2006, 10:01 AM
Try a little less melodrama in your morning coffee.

maybe I could borrow some from Whitlock?

shaneo69
01-22-2006, 10:08 AM
Looks like Whitlock stole Laz' "backstabber in SD" angle.

I jumped off the Saunders' bandwagon at the beginning of the 2004 season when he couldn't adjust to the loss of Kris Wilson. Apparently everything they had practiced during the 2004 training camp involved Wilson. Personally, I think AS expected Morton to be cut and Wilson to take his place in the lineup.

craneref
01-22-2006, 10:13 AM
I agree with the basic premis of the artice (why do I feel so dirty now), een though I think Saunders does deserve his fair share of credit with the CHIEFS "O". I am thinking that the CHIEFS will be OK. All this talk about the CHIEFS changing becasue of Edwards, reminds me of all the talk about what the Manning, James, Harrison led Colts would do with Defensive genious Dungy as their new head coach. Last time I checked, it seems the Colts offense didn't suffer AT ALL. I too like Solari, and someitmes the student becomes greater than the master, at least I hope so this time. GO CHIEFS

greg63
01-22-2006, 10:14 AM
I'm going to get blasted from jspchief and several others, but I just don't care. I didn't read the article; in fact I quit reading Fatlock stuff a long time ago because he obviously is a legend in his own mind.


-Captain Obvious

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 10:17 AM
No disrespect to Saunders
That's rich ... seems to me like disrespect to Saunders is pretty much what this article is all about.

patteeu
01-22-2006, 10:18 AM
I'm going to get blasted from jspchief and several others, but I just don't care. I didn't read the article; in fact I quit reading Fatlock stuff a long time ago because he obviously is a legend in his own mind.

You opened up a Whitlock thread just to let everyone know you didn't read the article, but Whitlock is the "legend in his own mind?"

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 10:18 AM
Looks like Whitlock stole Laz' "backstabber in SD" angle.
heh ... the KC media steals all sort of stuff from this BBS :thumb:

jspchief
01-22-2006, 10:27 AM
maybe I could borrow some from Whitlock?Sorry, I didn't realize you got paid to write entertaining posts.

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 10:31 AM
But this messy departure says a lot about Saunders.
can someone explain what was "messy" about this departure by Saunders?

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:31 AM
Why did Dick Vermeil love the guy so much then?? I thought old Father Dick's opinions were well respected around the league?? Apparantly not.

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 10:32 AM
Bob Dole has always been confused who was responsible for the offense, anyway.

If memory serves, more than a few people gave Martz all the credit for the O during Vermeil's time in St. Louie.

Did Vermeil have anything to do with the offense, or not?

shaneo69
01-22-2006, 10:37 AM
can someone explain what was "messy" about this departure by Saunders?

Well, as soon as Saunders took a lateral position with the skins, the media started quoting as fact that Saunders had been promised the Chiefs HC job. Then Peterson had to come out with his "he said/she said" rebuttal.

I think it turned a little ugly. I think Saunders had to use something like a "broken promise" to justify a lateral move to the media.

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 10:39 AM
I think it turned a little ugly. I think Saunders had to use something like a "broken promise" to justify a lateral move to the media.

Bob Dole doesn't recall reading a single quote attributed to Saunders since the season ended...

milkman
01-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Well, as soon as Saunders took a lateral position with the skins, the media started quoting as fact that Saunders had been promised the Chiefs HC job. Then Peterson had to come out with his "he said/she said" rebuttal.

I think it turned a little ugly. I think Saunders had to use something like a "broken promise" to justify a lateral move to the media.

I don't think Al has said anything since Hermie got the job.

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Well, as soon as Saunders took a lateral position with the skins, the media started quoting as fact that Saunders had been promised the Chiefs HC job. Then Peterson had to come out with his "he said/she said" rebuttal.

I think it turned a little ugly. I think Saunders had to use something like a "broken promise" to justify a lateral move to the media.
okay ... but from everything i have heard Saunders is MIA.


i haven't seen one comment from him about anything.



i just wonder whether any of the "mess" has been cause by Saunders or whether is just general drama caused by speculation.

whitlock implied that somehow the mess was a result of something that Saunders had done.

:shrug:

shaneo69
01-22-2006, 10:45 AM
Bob Dole has always been confused who was responsible for the offense, anyway.

If memory serves, more than a few people gave Martz all the credit for the O during Vermeil's time in St. Louie.

Did Vermeil have anything to do with the offense, or not?

Being from St. Louis, I can tell you that the Rams offense of 1997 and 1998 (when Saunders was in KC and Martz was in Washington) looked nothing like an NFL offense, much less a top-5, Coryell-type offense.

Martz came in and took advantage of the arrival of Faulk and Holt, and he gave Warner a chance, something that Vermiel had failed to do in 1998 when Tony Banks was struggling.

Then when Vermiel came here, he brought in Saunders, who had spent the previous two years learning from Martz, plus he already had the background from Coryell himself.

I'm still skeptical if any of it can be credited to Vermiel, other than the fact that he let his OC's do their thing without interfering. I don't think Marty would ever let his OC's run an offense like this. Cameron's offense is effective, but it's still conservative compared to Saunders'.

FringeNC
01-22-2006, 10:46 AM
okay ... but from everything i have heard Saunders is MIA.


i haven't seen one comment from him about anything.



i just wonder whether any of the "mess" has been cause by Saunders or whether is just general drama caused by speculation.

whitlock implied that somehow the mess was a result of something that Saunders had done.

:shrug:

During Peterson's press conference, a reporter indicated he had a source for the suggestion that Saunders was promised the job. He refused to reveal that source. Evidently, Whitlock thinks it's Saunders.

And if Saunders did make that claim to Posnanski, who do you believe, Saunders or Peterson?

shaneo69
01-22-2006, 10:47 AM
During Peterson's press conference, a reporter indicated he had a source for the suggestion that Saunders was promised the job. He refused to reveal that source. Evidently, Whitlock thinks it's Saunders.

I agree. No quotes from Saunders, but I'm sure it was mentioned to the media "off the record".

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 10:51 AM
During Peterson's press conference, a reporter indicated he had a source for the suggestion that Saunders was promised the job. He refused to reveal that source. Evidently, Whitlock thinks it's Saunders.

And if Saunders did make that claim to Posnanski, who do you believe, Saunders or Peterson?
That's just it...

we have speculation about whether Saunders may have said something

we have speculation about who is right Saunders or Peterson



there's a long we to go before we ever even get to the question of what kind of guy Saunders is.


be interesting to see how things play out in Washington

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 10:52 AM
Being from St. Louis, I can tell you that the Rams offense of 1997 and 1998 (when Saunders was in KC and Martz was in Washington) looked nothing like an NFL offense, much less a top-5, Coryell-type offense.

Martz came in and took advantage of the arrival of Faulk and Holt, and he gave Warner a chance, something that Vermiel had failed to do in 1998 when Tony Banks was struggling.

Then when Vermiel came here, he brought in Saunders, who had spent the previous two years learning from Martz, plus he already had the background from Coryell himself.

I'm still skeptical if any of it can be credited to Vermiel, other than the fact that he let his OC's do their thing without interfering. I don't think Marty would ever let his OC's run an offense like this. Cameron's offense is effective, but it's still conservative compared to Saunders'.

So Vermeil being commonly acknowledged as an "offensive minded coach" had no tangible positive effect on either team's offense. but had a tangible negative effect on the KC defense during his tenure?

milkman
01-22-2006, 10:57 AM
During Peterson's press conference, a reporter indicated he had a source for the suggestion that Saunders was promised the job. He refused to reveal that source. Evidently, Whitlock thinks it's Saunders.

And if Saunders did make that claim to Posnanski, who do you believe, Saunders or Peterson?

I'd be inclined to believe Al if he were to come out and say that Carl made him the promise.

Carl has created an image for himself that leads one to question his veracity.

The Bad Guy
01-22-2006, 10:58 AM
I think Priest might come back in a reduced role. He was there when he backed up Jamal Lewis and the Ravens rode them both to a Super Bowl. I think Priest can help this team AND reduce the wear and tear on LJ. I think a big reason LJ was so effective the last 9 games or so was because he was fresh. If he takes that kind of pounding from day 1 I don't see him being as effective near the end of the season. But LJ needs to be the starter and touch it 25+ times a game from day 1...

And that will never happen with Priest here.

Never.

Priest will never accept a reduced role here. In Baltimore, he had no choice but to accept it. He didn't do enough to warrant a temper tantrum about being a starter.

Priest has become a me-first guy the last 3 years.

I'd rather find a young backup and let Priest go.

He said last year he wouldn't reduce his salary to help with the cap. I doubt he'll do it this year either with his career in the balance.

FAX
01-22-2006, 11:01 AM
I've read this article and I don't understand it.

Why would Whitlock set of a ****bomb under Al's desk as he's leaving town anyway? What's the point?

He could have said, "We won't miss Al because Herm's got it under control." But, instead, he went to great lengths to demean Al by making him look like a laughing stock with the team.

The motivation behind this article just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

FAX

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 11:03 AM
The motivation behind this article just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

...as opposed to the usual Whitlock article.

FAX
01-22-2006, 11:05 AM
...as opposed to the usual Whitlock article.

I understand, Mr. Bob Dole, but this is just mean and cruel. This is really a nasty-ass article.

FAX

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 11:06 AM
I've read this article and I don't understand it.

Why would Whitlock set of a ****bomb under Al's desk as he's leaving town anyway? What's the point?

He could have said, "We won't miss Al because Herm's got it under control." But, instead, he went to great lengths to demean Al by making him look like a laughing stock with the team.

The motivation behind this article just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

FAX
to get attention and prove whitlock is "different" from the other guys.


same reason he writes most of the column the way he does


he could smooth his columns out to say the same thing but be less inflamatory wording but he doesn't because he wants the attention.

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 11:07 AM
I understand, Mr. Bob Dole, but this is just mean and cruel. This is really a nasty-ass article.

FAX

...as opposed to the usual Whitlock article.

40 GOTO 10

Rogcop_3121
01-22-2006, 11:15 AM
And that will never happen with Priest here.

Never.

Priest will never accept a reduced role here. In Baltimore, he had no choice but to accept it. He didn't do enough to warrant a temper tantrum about being a starter.

Priest has become a me-first guy the last 3 years.

I'd rather find a young backup and let Priest go.

He said last year he wouldn't reduce his salary to help with the cap. I doubt he'll do it this year either with his career in the balance.


I agree, Priest knows he can be a starter. I don't think there is any team in the league that hasn't seen his talent and respect his skill. Larry will be fine as the starter, but I can foresee an issue if Priest doesn't get much time on the field.

Luzap
01-22-2006, 11:23 AM
IMO, one of the big reasons this article is 'mean' is because Saunders wouldn't return Jason's call.

This is Jason's (and unfortunately, many other media hacks) way of weilding power ~ talk to me or I'll make you look bad.

Many here will think I'm crazy, but I believe much of Jason's hatred for Carl stems from the same reason. Unless you're Lamar Hunt, you don't play power games with Carl and come out ahead ~ although Jason has certainly done everything he can to get public opinion against Carl.

Luz
nothing is worse than the wrath of a scorned woman (or self appointed media god)...

the Talking Can
01-22-2006, 11:26 AM
I've read this article and I don't understand it.

Why would Whitlock set of a ****bomb under Al's desk as he's leaving town anyway? What's the point?

He could have said, "We won't miss Al because Herm's got it under control." But, instead, he went to great lengths to demean Al by making him look like a laughing stock with the team.

The motivation behind this article just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

FAX

stating, without sources, that the league believes AS is "a snake" is really petty and mean...I don't understand...

Luzap
01-22-2006, 11:27 AM
As to Priest, we should try to trade him. Unfortunately, with his contract, age, and health history we would be lucky to find any teams that would bite.

This is not to say that Priest isn't even still a good player, but circumstances are against him.

Luz
hoping he can accept and excell in a back-up roll...

Psyko Tek
01-22-2006, 11:27 AM
the line is the secret to our offensive success
it always has
get a good oline and any idiot can call plays

you guy remember the reverse the wide reciever screens
the cutesy plays when we should have been running someody down their throats

just hope solari remembers the rock

The Bad Guy
01-22-2006, 11:27 AM
IMO, one of the big reasons this article is 'mean' is because Saunders wouldn't return Jason's call.

This is Jason's (and unfortunately, many other media hacks) way of weilding power ~ talk to me or I'll make you look bad.

Many here will think I'm crazy, but I believe much of Jason's hatred for Carl stems from the same reason. Unless you're Lamar Hunt, you don't play power games with Carl and come out ahead ~ although Jason has certainly done everything he can to get public opinion against Carl.

Luz
nothing is worse than the wrath of a scorned woman (or self appointed media god)...

Yeah, I'm sure Jason wrote this huge column all over one missed return call.

He's right on tons of points. I think of JoPo wrote this, people would be falling all over themselves.

the Talking Can
01-22-2006, 11:29 AM
get a good oline and any idiot can call plays



did you watch our offense during the Marty Era? we always had a good OL, how was our offensive production?

Brock
01-22-2006, 11:29 AM
Yeah, I'm sure Jason wrote this huge column all over one missed return call.

He's right on tons of points. I think of JoPo wrote this, people would be falling all over themselves.

Obviously, there is something to this article. Al wasn't even interviewed for most of the available jobs, which is astounding to me.

Bob Dole
01-22-2006, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I'm sure Jason wrote this huge column all over one missed return call.

You underestimate JW.

Bob Dole still gets hate email for grabbing the last Hagen-Daaz bar at a charity event.

FAX
01-22-2006, 11:35 AM
get a good oline and any idiot can call plays

Thank goodness for that.

FAX

cdcox
01-22-2006, 11:48 AM
I'd be inclined to believe Al if he were to come out and say that Carl made him the promise.

Carl has created an image for himself that leads one to question his veracity.

I'd bet my right hand that Carl never promised him the job.

I could believe that Carl may have said something intended to make Saunders think he was going to get the job, but I am positive that Carl left himself an out. That is how he operates. And if Saunders thinks he was deceived, shame on him for being so gullible.

milkman
01-22-2006, 11:59 AM
I'd bet my right hand that Carl never promised him the job.

I could believe that Carl may have said something intended to make Saunders think he was going to get the job, but I am positive that Carl left himself an out. That is how he operates. And if Saunders thinks he was deceived, shame on him for being so gullible.

I don't think that Carl promised him the job.

But, again, if it came to Carl's word vs. Al's I would be far more inclined to believe Al.

Luzap
01-22-2006, 12:15 PM
I don't think that Carl promised him the job.

But, again, if it came to Carl's word vs. Al's I would be far more inclined to believe Al.

Two people that (I'm assuming) you've never even met.

I believe that the media plays a bigger role in our opinions than many of us would like to think.

Luz
we're all suseptable...

milkman
01-22-2006, 12:27 PM
Two people that (I'm assuming) you've never even met.

I believe that the media plays a bigger role in our opinions than many of us would like to think.

Luz
we're all suseptable...

You're right, I don't know the man personally.

But I'm not a real fan, so I have a low opinion of the man.

Coach
01-22-2006, 12:36 PM
As to Priest, we should try to trade him. Unfortunately, with his contract, age, and health history we would be lucky to find any teams that would bite.

This is not to say that Priest isn't even still a good player, but circumstances are against him.

Luz
hoping he can accept and excell in a back-up roll...

1. I doubt that Priest would want to take a back-up role IMHO.

2. I doubt that the Chiefs would be able to trade him, considering that I don't think any team out there would want to pick up Priest's salary, and the fact that he has been injured in the last 3 out of 4 seasons.

Looks like that either Priest retires, or going to be cut. One of those two I'm thinking could happen. The possibility of coming back and being a back-up is a possibility, but how will Priest's attitude be like?

Just alot of different scenerios that could happen.

StcChief
01-22-2006, 12:44 PM
Very telling story.

I was wondering why the Lambs didn't interview him.....

DaneMcCloud
01-22-2006, 02:04 PM
Being from St. Louis, I can tell you that the Rams offense of 1997 and 1998 (when Saunders was in KC and Martz was in Washington) looked nothing like an NFL offense, much less a top-5, Coryell-type offense.

Martz came in and took advantage of the arrival of Faulk and Holt, and he gave Warner a chance, something that Vermiel had failed to do in 1998 when Tony Banks was struggling.

Then when Vermiel came here, he brought in Saunders, who had spent the previous two years learning from Martz, plus he already had the background from Coryell himself.

This post makes no sense and is factually inaccurate. When Vermeil was hired in 1997 to replace Rich Brooks, his Offensive Coordinator was Jerry Rhome. Vermeil was stuck with Tony Banks and Lawrence Phillips. After going 5-11 two years in a row, Vermeil was ordered by John Shaw to fire his coordinators and make changes throughout the staff.

Before the 1999 season, the Rams traded a 2nd & a 5th round pick to the Colts for Marshall Faulk. Trent Green was brought in from Washington, along with new Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz. Al Saunders was brought in as the Wide Receivers coach from KC (when Al was first passed over as Head Coach when CP chose Goother). Tory Holt was drafted in the first round in 1999.

In addition, Saunder was never in Washington (or anyplace else) with Martz. Al Saunders was the Wide Recievers coach with the Chiefs from 1989-1998 and returned to KC with Vermeil in 2001.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 02:21 PM
This post makes no sense and is factually inaccurate. When Vermeil was hired in 1997 to replace Rich Brooks, his Offensive Coordinator was Jerry Rhome. Vermeil was stuck with Tony Banks and Lawrence Phillips. After going 5-11 two years in a row, Vermeil was ordered by John Shaw to fire his coordinators and make changes throughout the staff.

Before the 1999 season, the Rams traded a 2nd & a 5th round pick to the Colts for Marshall Faulk. Trent Green was brought in from Washington, along with new Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz. Al Saunders was brought in as the Wide Receivers coach from KC (when Al was first passed over as Head Coach when CP chose Goother). Tory Holt was drafted in the first round in 1999.

In addition, Saunder was never in Washington (or anyplace else) with Martz. Al Saunders was the Wide Recievers coach with the Chiefs from 1989-1998 and returned to KC with Vermeil in 2001.


Dick did stick with Tony Banks for far too long (his stubborn loyalty again) I believe Warner was the backup in 1998, he should have played Warner more in 98.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 02:24 PM
[url]
Unfortunately for Saunders, heís having a much harder time convincing NFL general managers and owners that heís Godís gift to football.

I wanted to hear Saunders explain why nearly a third of the NFLís teams took a look at his stellar resume and hired 30-year-old kids. .

Interesting read. Im not certain its 100% accurate, but there is obviously something there as to why Saunders keeps getting passed over for unproven kids.

greg63
01-22-2006, 02:39 PM
You opened up a Whitlock thread just to let everyone know you didn't read the article, but Whitlock is the "legend in his own mind?"


...Drawing on past experience; I've opened several Fatlock threads to inform everyone there that I don't read and react to his ramblings. It kills me how people read his crap and then moan and groan about what he wrote. If ya don't like what he writes then quit reading it.


Just call it a sense of social responsibility on my part.

Ultra Peanut
01-22-2006, 02:46 PM
Big Sexy FOR THE WIN.

jlscorpio
01-22-2006, 05:16 PM
This is exactly what I was saying in my post yesterday and got hammered by all the AS clones. Solari is the perfect fit for an offense that revolves around LJ. AS coordinated almost as many losses as wins.
Like JW said, there HAS to be a reason that the Faiders were the only team giving him a serious look. Don't get it twisted. I respect Al as a coordinator, but this was DV's offense and Solari's running attack with both Priest and LJ. AS is not the genius that the media and his clones on here make him out to be...

milkman
01-22-2006, 05:31 PM
This is exactly what I was saying in my post yesterday and got hammered by all the AS clones. Solari is the perfect fit for an offense that revolves around LJ. AS coordinated almost as many losses as wins.
Like JW said, there HAS to be a reason that the Faiders were the only team giving him a serious look. Don't get it twisted. I respect Al as a coordinator, but this was DV's offense and Solari's running attack with both Priest and LJ. AS is not the genius that the media and his clones on here make him out to be...

This is not Dick's offense.

This is the Coryell offense that Al learned from Coryell.
Martz ran it in StL, after learning it from Norv Turner.

Dick brought Al with him from StL because of his knowledge of the system.

jlscorpio
01-22-2006, 05:44 PM
whatever. it duzn't matter they're both gone, so no more double fake reverse wr screens. Give LJ the ball behind Roaf/Waters, watch the records fall and the wins pile up...

tk13
01-22-2006, 05:48 PM
This is not Dick's offense.

This is the Coryell offense that Al learned from Coryell.
Martz ran it in StL, after learning it from Norv Turner.

Dick brought Al with him from StL because of his knowledge of the system.
Yeah, what DV deserves credit for is going against his more conservative roots to allow these guys to bring in their aggressive offense and take a lot more chances than most coaches would allow, and also keeping guys like Saunders and Martz balanced and not getting too pass happy and making sure they ran the football. DV is the perfect coach for somebody like Saunders or Martz because he never really choked them back, but never let them get carried away, much like Martz did after DV left.

milkman
01-22-2006, 05:49 PM
whatever. it duzn't matter they're both gone, so no more double fake reverse wr screens. Give LJ the ball behind Roaf/Waters, watch the records fall and the wins pile up...

The wins won't pile up unless the defense gets fixed.

milkman
01-22-2006, 05:51 PM
Yeah, what DV deserves credit for is going against his more conservative roots to allow these guys to bring in their aggressive offense and take a lot more chances than most coaches would allow, and also keeping guys like Saunders and Martz balanced and not getting too pass happy and making sure they ran the football. DV is the perfect coach for somebody like Saunders or Martz because he never really choked them back, but never let them get carried away, much like Martz did after DV left.

Exactly.

Good post.

jlscorpio
01-22-2006, 05:52 PM
agreed. yet another reason to hire herm over AS...

Mr. Laz
01-22-2006, 06:40 PM
did you watch our offense during the Marty Era? we always had a good OL, how was our offensive production?
dang straight ... if the oline was the only thing that matters Marty shottenheimer would have 10 super bowls under his belt already.


jabberwocky