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View Full Version : Which Star Trek series was better?


Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:11 PM
A friend and I are having a heated debate over this issue.

Personally I think the character development, backstory and ongoing storylines in Star Trek: The Next Generation blows away anything The Original Series had to offer.

There's a reason TOS only ran three seasons and TNG ran seven.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:12 PM
TNG by far. BUT, Kirk would kick Picards ass.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:13 PM
TNG by far. BUT, Kirk would kick Picards ass.

Picard would get Worf to kick ass for him. :D

SoCalBronco
01-22-2006, 10:13 PM
The Original Series wins in a blowout.

They made a historic impact in sci-fi TV history. TNG was garbage, absolute garbage.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:14 PM
Picard would get Worf to kick ass for him. :D

True. True. ROFL But Spock would just vulcan pinch him.

Bacon Cheeseburger
01-22-2006, 10:15 PM
Loved TOS, never got into TNG or any of the others.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-22-2006, 10:17 PM
I liked both, but the 1st series was the bomb. Kirk went after every green b!tch he could find.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:18 PM
I liked both, but the 1st series was the bomb. Kirk went after every green b!tch he could find.


Even became a punchline in the movies.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:18 PM
I love Picard, but nothing beats the Kirk/Spock/McCoy character dynamics...pure dynamite. Original Series gets the nod for me.

Cochise
01-22-2006, 10:19 PM
I'm not a star trek geek by any means, and I haven't even seen but one or two of the movies, but the next generation was not a bad show. I liked the Q character.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:19 PM
I am waiting for Vlad to vote for the original. :rolleyes:

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:20 PM
I liked the Q character.

Q blows away any recurring villain from TOS (of which there were few).

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:21 PM
Q blows away any recurring villain from TOS (of which there were few).

Unless you count Kahn in the TV to movie role.

SoCalBronco
01-22-2006, 10:23 PM
Bones.....what about TNG?

It's dead, Jim.

TNG....does.....gochiefs....really think.....they were.......better than us?

Well, Jim, apparently gochiefs..

(interrupts) dammit bones i dont wanna......hear....what gochiefs...thinks.....i want real answers........give.....me....the answer.

goddammit Jim im a doctor, not a television critic.

Spock...

Captain, if my calculations are correct, I believe gochiefs assertion is what you humans would call "dumb-assery".

Cochise
01-22-2006, 10:24 PM
Q blows away any recurring villain from TOS (of which there were few).

I just liked that he's not really a villain, he's more of a trickster. And just about as unpredictable as any character in fiction could logically be since he has no limitations.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:24 PM
Unless you count Kahn in the TV to movie role.

I sure don't. Khan was in one freaking episode in TOS.

If you want to discuss the movies it's a separate issue. Suffice it say though that the TNG movies never approached the level of shit that is The Motion Picture.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:26 PM
I just liked that he's not really a villain, he's more of a trickster. And just about as unpredictable as any character in fiction could logically be since he has no limitations.

Yes. That is the great dynamic of the Q character. I always liked Q. Seemed he was always trying to teach Picard a lesson.

And his costumes ruled. :D

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:26 PM
Nothing beats the Tribbles.....

SoCalBronco
01-22-2006, 10:27 PM
I sure don't. Khan was in one freaking episode in TOS.

If you want to discuss the movies it's a separate issue. Suffice it say though that the TNG movies never approached the level of shit that is The Motion Picture.

Okay, the motion picture sucked...but pretty much all of the TNG movies were busts. All of them. In contrast, TOS's actors produced 4 glorious films, 1 garbage film and 1 below average film (STV, and even that wasnt their fault, stupid Paramount was cheap as hell, they totally re-wrote Shatner's original script, it was very dark and very cool, they turned it into crap).

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:28 PM
Yes. That is the great dynamic of the Q character. I always liked Q. Seemed he was always trying to teach Picard a lesson.

And his costumes ruled. :D


You should read the Q series of books then.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:30 PM
Okay, the motion picture sucked...but pretty much all of the TNG movies were busts. All of them. In contrast, TOS's actors produced 4 glorious films, 1 garbage film and 1 below average film (STV, and even that wasnt their fault, stupid Paramount was cheap as hell, they totally re-wrote Shatner's original script, it was very dark and very cool, they turned it into crap).

While I agree with your assessment of the TOS films, I think you're giving the TNG films a raw deal. First Contact is as good as any of the TNG films. Generations and Insurrection were average. Nemesis was on par with Shatner's crapfest of Final Frontier. Shatner had rubber rock monsters spewing smoke in it originally. :rolleyes:

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:31 PM
You should read the Q series of books then.

I read Q squared. It has been a long ass time since I have picked up a Star Trek book.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 10:31 PM
NG was much better. Of course, they had a lot more to work with.

The original series is largely unwatchable now - granted, there are some good episodes that overcome the wretched special effects and cheap production standards, but mostly I wouldn't bother. I certainly wouldn't order the original series by the season. OTOH, I do own Seasons 3, 4 and 5 of NG.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:33 PM
Generations and Insurrection were average. Nemesis was on par with Shatner's crapfest of Final Frontier. Shatner had rubber rock monsters spewing smoke in it originally. :rolleyes:

I actually kind of dug Nemisis. I thought Insurrection was crap. But what do i know? Ive actually sort of grown to like Star Trek the Motion Picture a little more over the years.

Cochise
01-22-2006, 10:33 PM
Yes. That is the great dynamic of the Q character. I always liked Q. Seemed he was always trying to teach Picard a lesson.

And his costumes ruled. :D

He is kind of like me on CP. Doesn't do anything of substance but mess with people and offer opinions that are usually unwanted. :D

KcMizzou
01-22-2006, 10:35 PM
NG... I still ocasionally catch a rerun on Spike TV.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 10:35 PM
I actually kind of dug Nemisis. I thought Insurrection was crap. But what do i know? Ive actually sort of grown to like Star Trek the Motion Picture a little more over the years.

Nemesis was a near-rehash of Star Trek II. I had some nice moments (RAMMING SPEED!) and the Picard-Data dynamic was sort of cool but otherwise it was a flop.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:36 PM
I read Q squared. It has been a long ass time since I have picked up a Star Trek book.

That one was a great read. It has been years since I read any of the books. They slowly started to become the same book with different aliens.

tk13
01-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Revenge of the Sith, that's my favorite.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:38 PM
Nemesis was a near-rehash of Star Trek II. I had some nice moments (RAMMING SPEED!) and the Picard-Data dynamic was sort of cool but otherwise it was a flop.

First Contact was the best TNG movie.

As far as ST Motion Picture was concerned, I didn't get it as a kid when I saw it. Now I like it. Just has different meaning now.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 10:42 PM
Star Trek Movies, ranked in order from best to worst

VIII First Contact
II Wrath of Khan
VI Undiscovered Country

(big dropoff)

VII Generations
X Nemesis
III Search for Spock
IV Voyage Home

(REALLY BIG DROPOFF)

I The Motion Picture
V The Final Frontier
IX Insurrection

I realize I'm probably being a bit hard on IV, but I want space battles from Star Trek, not save-the-whales crap.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Nemesis was a near-rehash of Star Trek II. I had some nice moments (RAMMING SPEED!) and the Picard-Data dynamic was sort of cool but otherwise it was a flop.

Yea ill agree it was a rehash. Even down to a major character dying. I think it was a flop because Paramount watered down the franchise by making too many series, plus movies..people got tired of it. If they wait about 5-10 years, and hire some major talent to write and direct another one, i think people will come back again.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:45 PM
So.... is anyone surprised by the poll results so far?

Archie F. Swin
01-22-2006, 10:47 PM
Nex gen

greg63
01-22-2006, 10:48 PM
I picked the original series, but I'm an old school Treky.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 10:51 PM
Yea ill agree it was a rehash. Even down to a major character dying. I think it was a flop because Paramount watered down the franchise by making too many series, plus movies..people got tired of it. If they wait about 5-10 years, and hire some major talent to write and direct another one, i think people will come back again.
If there's enough interest in making another movie, Data can easily be ressurrected from the tard copy his memories were downloaded into. When it comes to major Star Trek characters, death is rarely permanent.

Of course, I think if that was going to happen, it would have by now. Even the NG cast is getting pretty old at this point. Marina Sirtis is the baby of the group at age 45, and Stewart is now 65.

I doubt if there would be enough interest in the last bunch to rate a movie. If there is any further Star Trek, it'll probably be from an era we haven't seen yet.

Ultra Peanut
01-22-2006, 10:52 PM
Q was... the best...

http://tnglove.ytmnd.com/

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 10:55 PM
If there's enough interest in making another movie, Data can easily be ressurrected from the tard copy his memories were downloaded into. When it comes to major Star Trek characters, death is rarely permanent.

Of course, I think if that was going to happen, it would have by now. Even the NG cast is getting pretty old at this point. Marina Sirtis is the baby of the group at age 45, and Stewart is now 65.

I doubt if there would be enough interest in the last bunch to rate a movie. If there is any further Star Trek, it'll probably be from an era we haven't seen yet.

They would have to get Ron Moore back again. The genius behind Battlestar Galactica and most of Deep Space Nine which was probably the best written of any Trek series.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 10:57 PM
They would have to get Ron Moore back again. The genius behind Battlestar Galactica and most of Deep Space Nine which was probably the best written of any Trek series.

The new Battlestar Galactica blows pretty much all Star Trek away, and I never thought I'd say that about anything. I'm still in awe of how good it is.

Guru
01-22-2006, 10:58 PM
If there's enough interest in making another movie, Data can easily be ressurrected from the tard copy his memories were downloaded into. When it comes to major Star Trek characters, death is rarely permanent.

Of course, I think if that was going to happen, it would have by now. Even the NG cast is getting pretty old at this point. Marina Sirtis is the baby of the group at age 45, and Stewart is now 65.

I doubt if there would be enough interest in the last bunch to rate a movie. If there is any further Star Trek, it'll probably be from an era we haven't seen yet.

Last I heard was a plan for writing a movie that takes place between Enterprise and TOS with completely unknown characters.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 11:03 PM
Last I heard was a plan for writing a movie that takes place between Enterprise and TOS with completely unknown characters.

I was actually kind of hoping they'd do something like that - perhaps they could focus on the first voyages of the NCC-1701 Enterprise under the command of Capt. April.

There were a couple of episodes of Enterprise that featured new footage of a Constitution-class ship, and I really thought that mix of old school and modern day SFX was awesome.

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 11:04 PM
Last I heard was a plan for writing a movie that takes place between Enterprise and TOS with completely unknown characters.

I had heard a rumor that they might find a way to bring Kirk back. But who knows?? They would probably be better off going with original characters at this point.

Guru
01-22-2006, 11:05 PM
I had heard a rumor that they might find a way to bring Kirk back. But who knows?? They would probably be better off going with original characters at this point.

If that is the case, then Shatner must be writing it. Have you read any of his ST books?

Frazod
01-22-2006, 11:05 PM
I had heard a rumor that they might find a way to bring Kirk back. But who knows?? They would probably be better off going with original characters at this point.

You mean Shatner, or a new actor portraying a younger Kirk?

Deberg_1990
01-22-2006, 11:08 PM
You mean Shatner, or a new actor portraying a younger Kirk?

I meant Shatner, but a young Kirk would be a pretty cool idea if done well. Well maybe not, that character is too closely identified with Shatner.

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 11:09 PM
Please....just let it die.

The ONLY Star Trek series idea that would get me excited at this point would be a series from the perspective of the Klingons or Romulans.

Frazod
01-22-2006, 11:10 PM
I meant Shatner, but a young Kirk would be a pretty cool idea if done well. Well maybe not, that character is too closely identified with Shatner.

According to IMDb, Shatner will be 75 years old in March. No offense to Bill - Captain Kirk was my first hero as a kid - but I think he needs to keep those spurs hung up.

Guru
01-22-2006, 11:12 PM
Please....just let it die.

The ONLY Star Trek series idea that would get me excited at this point would be a series from the perspective of the Klingons or Romulans.

Now that is an interesting idea. :hmmm:

Count Zarth
01-22-2006, 11:14 PM
Now that is an interesting idea. :hmmm:

I know. Someone should hire me to direct.

Rausch
01-22-2006, 11:21 PM
Next Gen.

Even with a frog at the Helm...

Guru
01-22-2006, 11:23 PM
OK, 49 replies, 165 views and only 20 total votes? Tied at 10.... alll righty then!!!!

greg63
01-22-2006, 11:24 PM
Next Gen.

Even with a frog at the Helm...


Kermit? :D

DaWolf
01-23-2006, 12:22 AM
TOS because of the big 3. Next Gen I liked when they focused on the Picard or Data characters, but honestly I thought the rest of the cast was super boring/uninteresting. To me, Riker was a waste of space for example. On the flip side I just loved the dynamics of the characters in TOS. That's why TOS enabled the rest of these Treks to actually get put on the air, because it hooked so many people in the first place after it got cancelled. And the interesting character relations is the reason I frankly liked DS9 a little better than Next Gen, although I know many would disagree with that saying that DS9 was boring...

luv
01-23-2006, 12:25 AM
The Next Generation. IT had Wil Wheaton. :drool:

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 12:25 AM
Riker was the ying to Picard's yang. Plus, he was an integral part of the Worf-Troi-Riker love triangle.

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 12:25 AM
The Next Generation. IT had Wil Wheaton. :drool:

www.wilwheaton.net

luv
01-23-2006, 12:30 AM
www.wilwheaton.net
I saw on VH1 that he is married, doing IT work, and living in Kansas.

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 12:31 AM
Wil was a horrid actor but I liked the character lot.

keg in kc
01-23-2006, 01:31 AM
Deep Space 9 was best. Of the choices, TNG, but only because it had more time to grow.

Taco John
01-23-2006, 01:39 AM
Star Trek DS9 > All other Star Treks.

Miles
01-23-2006, 01:41 AM
TNG is my pick but i think deep space 9 was pretty close.

Taco John
01-23-2006, 01:56 AM
I liked TNG. But it didn't have the politics and the wars like DS9 had. The ferengis annoyed me at first, but once I "got" them, I learned to appreciate their roles in the series. Plus there was a wider array of badasses in the series. TNG, it was always either Riker or Picard being the badass... In DS9, there were Rikers and Picards for every race being badasses... I dug it...

Taco John
01-23-2006, 01:56 AM
Oh yeah, and the Trill lesbian scene. That was kewl.

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 02:25 AM
DS9 definitely expanded on the rich backstory and diverse cultures. Avery Brooks was great, too.

meStevo
01-23-2006, 03:16 AM
I want to say TNG, but the slow realization of how powerful the Dominion was, and then the Dominion war on DS9 was just the best Trek I ever watched. The first several episodes and then the last 1-2 of Voyager were decent, as they expaned upon and then wrapped up roles.... admitedly didnt get to see much in between.

All things Borg were great, regardless of franchise. The low points for me of any of them were the religious DS9 episodes, even thought I know that was a core to a lot of other things.

Guru
01-23-2006, 03:54 AM
Oh yeah, and the Trill lesbian scene. That was kewl.

Of course, it wasn't really a lesbian scene. :hmmm:

Taco John
01-23-2006, 04:01 AM
It was two girls kissing...

DaWolf
01-23-2006, 04:36 AM
Even the bad guys had intruige on that show, like that Cardassian general dude who kept trying to be cool with Kira while remaining evil. And then they had that tailor dude who used to be a spy. And Odo struggling with trying to figure out what he was. Plus they had mirror universe episodes, which was cool.

I also liked the chick they brought in during the final season to replace Terry Farrell as Dax when she left to be on Becker...

Guru
01-23-2006, 04:45 AM
It was two girls kissing...

One of which was in love with the other woman when her inner being was housed in a man. ROFL

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 05:03 AM
Even the bad guys had intruige on that show, like that Cardassian general dude who kept trying to be cool with Kira while remaining evil. And then they had that tailor dude who used to be a spy. And Odo struggling with trying to figure out what he was.

See?

TOS never had stuff like that. You could have watched the episodes of TOS in any order and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference.

Amnorix
01-23-2006, 05:48 AM
The original series is what laid the groundwork for all the rest, because it had alot of elements that were very groundbreaking, different or memorable for a number of reasons. It gets credit for the best interaction among the crew members and for creating great, memorable characters.

TNG had far better plots and special effects, overall, but was dragged down by some pathetic characters -- Troi especially comes to mind.

Essentially, original Star Trek is much more like an old Western, while TNG was, I dunno, something more sophisticated in a way. Sophistication is nice, but old Westerns can be a helluva lot of fun too.

DaWolf
01-23-2006, 07:47 AM
As good as TNG was there was always a sort of disconnect IMO, vs the fans of TOS seemed much more in tune to those characters. For example, when Spock dies in II, the reaction amongst the fans was quite emotional. Whereas when Data dies in Nemesis, the general fan reaction was "this movie sucked." The Enterprise got blown up in III, and the reaction was "Holy crap, they just blew up the Enterprise" while in Generations it was basically "WTF was that ending?"

TrickyNicky
01-23-2006, 09:36 AM
The Original Series for me. Simply because of the fight scenes. It seemed like they just made it up as they went along and nothing beats the double axe-handle to the back of the neck.

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 12:20 PM
TNG dominates! End of story!

Fried Meat Ball!
01-23-2006, 12:31 PM
This is like asking which is better, Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Nerds II.

Original series by a LANDSLIDE!

Count Zarth
01-23-2006, 12:32 PM
This is like asking which is better, Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Nerds II.

Original series by a LANDSLIDE!

Not even.

Deberg_1990
01-23-2006, 08:08 PM
The Original Series for me. Simply because of the fight scenes. It seemed like they just made it up as they went along and nothing beats the double axe-handle to the back of the neck.

Its very likely the fights were made up on the fly. I once read that some of the episodes were so low budget, that the prop guys had to go digging through a few other series trash cans to make stuff like the Tri-Corders etc....Nobody fights better than Capt. Kirk IMO....