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Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 12:28 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/colleges/university_of_kansas/13700764.htm

Freshman Downs leaving Kansas Jayhawks
By JASON KING
The Kansas City Star

The Kansas City Star has learned that Kansas freshman Micah Downs has left the Jayhawks basketball team.

Kansas officials are expected to issue a press release this afternoon, but Downs confirmed his departure when reached by The Star on his cell phone.

“Yes it’s true,” Downs said. “No offense to you, but I’m not going to comment any further. Coach (Bill) Self has been really cool about this situation and we agreed that I wouldn’t make any comment other than what’s in the press release.”

A 6-foot-8 wing, Downs averaged 4.3 points in 13 games for Kansas. The McDonald’s All-American had appeared in just four games since Christmas.

sedated
01-24-2006, 12:29 PM
I had a feeling this would happen, just not this soon

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 12:30 PM
I had a feeling this would happen, just not this soon
Same here. I was saying this after he signed a LOI.

Mike in SW-MO
01-24-2006, 12:31 PM
What's the deal?

Hadn't heard anything done hear in Bass Pro-ville.

sedated
01-24-2006, 12:33 PM
It's generally a bad sign when he b!tched about not getting enough playing time in the McDonalds All-American game.

Then he disappears for several games, and doesn't even get mop-up duty in a 40 point rout.


not a surprise

doomy3
01-24-2006, 12:44 PM
wow, I am reqlly surprised this is happening midseason like this. I expected it to happen this offseason, but not midseason. Not that it will make a difference, other that maybe be a distraction...

Demonpenz
01-24-2006, 12:51 PM
next up cj giles

KCTitus
01-24-2006, 12:54 PM
Why are these guys leaving Self's program? Is it just because they're not getting any playing time?

CoMoChief
01-24-2006, 12:57 PM
Why is Bill Self letting go of all the guys who can shoot? Galindo, Giddens (thank god he left though) now Downs. Bill Keeps on riding the Hi Low offense train. That shitty offense only works in HS. I still wish KU had Roy Williams. At least Bill Self would keep installed the KUtransistion break while Simien and Co. were there but no, Self decides to do things his own way and a result was a loss to Bucknell. I dont like Bill Self so basically whenever I hear anything about KU bball in a negative manner, I blame Bill Self for everything. I wish he would leave.

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 12:59 PM
Why are these guys leaving Self's program? Is it just because they're not getting any playing time?
In this case, i'd say yea.

In the other cases, he is the new coach with a different philosophy and system than the coach that recruited them.

This is the first recruit he's lost that he has recruited .

Ari Chi3fs
01-24-2006, 01:01 PM
Galindo, Giddens, Downs, Padgett, Moulaye Nyang...

and the beat goes on... :hmmm:

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Galindo, Giddens, Downs, Padgett, Moulaye Nyang...

and the beat goes on... :hmmm:
You forgot Nick Bahe. :)

sedated
01-24-2006, 01:08 PM
The only saving grace is that 2 of those other guys were shooters that were too big, slow, and uncoordinated to play the guard position.

They couldn't guard anyone or put the ball on the floor.

Giddens was a cocky head-case.

duncan_idaho
01-24-2006, 01:10 PM
I dont like Bill Self so basically whenever I hear anything about KU bball in a negative manner, I blame Bill Self for everything. I wish he would leave.

Insert Mike Alden for Bill Self, and welcome to my world.

royr17
01-24-2006, 01:12 PM
This could also mean more time for Sophomore Rodrick Stewart.

duncan_idaho
01-24-2006, 01:14 PM
This could also mean more time for Sophomore Rodrick Stewart.

Yes, trade one team cancer for another.

HC_Chief
01-24-2006, 01:17 PM
Yes, trade one team cancer for another.
:rolleyes:Team cancer?

Downs is supposedly a great outside shooter. Who knows, he never got PT?

Wonder where he's transferring?

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 01:22 PM
:rolleyes:Team cancer?

Downs is supposedly a great outside shooter. Who knows, he never got PT?

Wonder where he's transferring?
Are you aware of the kids history?

royr17
01-24-2006, 01:22 PM
Yes, trade one team cancer for another.

As far as I know, Steward is a defensive player, has a inside game too i believe, and supposedly a good 3 point shot.

Downs is only a good shooter, thats it. He doesnt practice hard, is injured, and doesnt play good sound defense.

duncan_idaho
01-24-2006, 01:24 PM
:rolleyes:Team cancer?

Downs is supposedly a great outside shooter. Who knows, he never got PT?

Wonder where he's transferring?

Anybody who publicly complains about not getting enough playing time at the McDonald's All-American game (then has his parents say he deserved more PT) is a malcontent in the making. I'm sure he was happy buried on the kU bench. I'm sure he wasn't whining and complaining. When has he ever done that before? (note the dripping sarcasm).

My comment was mostly directed at Stewart, a player so selfish, even his twin brother didn't like playing with him.

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 01:33 PM
Add this to "the list." Kind of surreal after you look at all of these accomplishments. Some of them are dumb, some of them make you wonder "What the hell happened?"

Hehe.


4/21/03 Bill Self introduced as Kansas basketball coach;

7/12/03 Darnell Jackson commits to Kansas;

12/01/03 Kansas, under Bill Self, after only two games, becomes ranked
#1 in
the Nation;

12/06/03 #1 Kansas promptly loses to Stanford (64-58] surrendering its
No. 1
ranking;

12/21/03 Kansas loses to Nevada (75-61);

1/22/04 A week and a half later, Kansas suffers humiliating defeat
against
Richmond (69-68];

1/31/04 Another week and a half later, Kansas loses to Iowa State
(68-61);

2/09/04 Again, a week and a half later, Kansas loses by 20 points to
Oklahoma State (80-60);

2/15/04 A week later, Kansas suffers its second 20 points loss in a row
to
Nebraska (74-55);

2/23/04 The next week, Kansas loses to Texas (82-67);

3/13/04 Kansas loses again to Texas in second round of Big 12 tournament
(64-60);

3/21/04 The now Self-free Illinois program defeats higher seeded
Cincinnati
in NCAA tournament, ending several years of disappointing tournament
play
while coached by Self;

3/28/04 Kansas loses to Georgia Tech (79-71) in NCAA tournament after
beating heavyweights UIC, Pacific and Alabama-Birmingham;

4/09/04 Omar Wilkes announces he is transferring from Kansas basketball
program;

4/09/04 Moulaye Niang announces he is transferring from Kansas
basketball
program;

4/15/04 David Padgett announces he is transferring from Kansas
basketball
program;

4/24/04 Jeff Hawkins suspended from Kansas basketball program for
undisclosed reasons;

5/17/04 Alex Galindo commits to Kansas;

6/08/04 Kurtis Townsend hired as assistant basketball coach; Townsends
experience includes being a member of the staff at California
(1993-1997)
during one of the largest NCAA recruiting violation investigations in
history which landed the school on 3 years probation. He followed that
up as
an assistant at Michigan (1998-2001) during the greatest recruiting
scandal
in the history of the NCAA, which resulted in four years of major
sanctions
for the school; As a bonus to the Kansas basketball program, Townsend
brought along with him recruit C.J. Giles, formerly committed to USC
when
Townsend was coaching there. However, when Townsend left USC for Miami,
G.J.
Giles transferred along with him to Miami. Once Townsend was fired at
Miami,
C.J. Giles again transferred with him, this time to Kansas.

9/11/04 Julian Wright commits to Kansas without ever visiting campus;
Wright, who had previously eliminated Kansas from his list apparently
changed his mind and committed on the spot during a Self in-home visit;
Scheduled visits to various other schools are cancelled;

11/08/04 Kansas starts season ranked No. 1 in the nation, the second
time
under Self;

12/05/04 Kansas again promptly loses its No. 1 ranking to Bill Self-free
Illinois;

1/08/05 Perhaps not surprisingly, Rodrick Stewart, another one of
Townsends
former players and recruits, transfers to Kansas from USC;

1/22/05 Kansas defeated in 20 point loss (83-62) to Villanova;

2/15/05 Kansas loses to Texas Tech (80-79);

2/19/05 Kansas loses second game in a row to Iowa State (63-61);

2/21/05 Kansas loses third game in a row to Oklahoma (71-63);

3/06/05 Kansas loses to rival Missouri (72-68];

3/12/05 Kansas knocked out of Big 12 tournament (78-75) in loss to
Oklahoma
State

3/13/05 Self-free Illinois wins Big Ten tournament;

3/18/05 Kansas shocked in first round of NCAA tournament (64-63) by 14th
seed BUCKNELL

3/26/05 Self-free Illinois goes to the Final Four;

4/02/05 Self-free Illinois goes to National Championship;

4/04/05 Alex Galindo announces he is transferring from Kansas basketball
program;

4/14/05 Only 300 fans show up for Kansas basketball awards ceremony;
Majority of seating for 2,024 remains empty; The ones who didn't show
up
can sit behind their desk, their computers or whatever and complain till
next season," said always-quotable Keith Langford.

4/19/05 Dwight Lewis commits to Kansas;

4/25/05 Nick Bahe announces he is transferring from Kansas basketball
program;

5/19/05 Highly publicized bar fight involving starting guard J.R.
Giddens
occurs. Multiple witnesses report that Giddens was the primary
instigator in
an attack that saw 10-12 people beat Olathe resident Jeremiah Creswell
with
fists, bricks and bottles. Saying he was trying to defend himself,
Creswell
brandished a knife and stabbed Giddens and four others. Witnesses said
KU
forward C.J. Giles also threw a punch at Creswell.

6/01/05 At some point in June, Kansas athletic department receives
anonymous
tip regarding improprieties centering around J.R. Giddens and NCAA
recruiting violations; the specifics of the tip were never revealed;

6/28/05 Ronnie Chalmers, previously a high school coach in Alaska with
only
5 years of experience, but more importantly, recruit Mario Chalmers
father,
is announced as Director of Kansas Basketball Operations; "It's exactly
what
it looks like -- a package deal," sneered a Pac-10 coach, whose cynicism
and
desire for anonymity mimicked the response of four other coaches
contacted
at the Nike Camp.

6/29/05 Keith Langford and Aaron Miles, never able to adjust to Bill
Selfs
slow and methodical hi-low offense, go undrafted in 2005 NBA draft after
promising early college career starts under Roy Williams;

6/30/05 J.R. Giddens announces he is leaving Kansas basketball program;
Kansas makes no mention of the anonymous tip regarding NCAA violations
swirling around Giddens and the program;

7/16/05 Among other undisclosed violations, Kansas announces that it
discovered its basketball staff had traditionally engaged in a practice
of
allowing monetary payments to graduating players and other Jayhawk
players
who had exhausted their eligibility in violation of NCAA rules; A
self-imposed two year probation is levied against their athletic
department;
Other sanctions are levied against womens basketball and mens
football;
Curiously, mens basketball escapes all (self-imposed) punishment;

8/09/05 Dwight Lewis, orally committed to Kansas, announces he will not
attend Kansas;

8/28/05 Rodrick Stewart suffers gash on head after getting having a
bottle
smashed over his head during a fight at a Lawrence, Kansas bar;

8/24/05-9/02/05 Not exactly clear when, but Brandon Rush commits to
Kansas
basketball program; Rush had previously made his NBA intentions at
Kansas
clear with these statements: Its no secret, Rush said. Most of the
coaches I talk to I dont even have to tell them. Instead they tell
me.
Theyre like, Dont worry, we know youre only going to be here a year
or
two. Theyre cool with it. I can come in and just put up numbers.
Brandons coach, Antonio Fozard, echoed these sentiments: Brandon has
to be
put in a situation where he can put up numbers. He wants to go play in
the
NBA. That's his goal. That's where he wants to play. So we have to get
him
in a situation where he steps right in and can get noticed to help him
get
to the NBA. It's not about winning national championships. It's about
finding a place where he can win some games and put up big numbers and
improve his options in professional basketball."

10/18/05 Sherron Collins commits to Kansas amidst various media reports
that
he was guided by his coach/street pimp Anthony Longstreet, considered by
Chicago Public League coaches as the new Landon Sonny Cox for his
ability
to recruit players to Crane; Scheduled visits promised to various other
schools are abruptly cancelled; Longstreet without being prompted or
even
accused of taking money, bizarrely challenged local writers to get the
proof, produce the canceled check.'' Thereafter, Longstreet abruptly
refused
to speak again on the subject. He explained, "Right now, I've been told
to
be quiet because this stuff is getting too ugly. No word on who
instructed
Longstreet to keep his mouth shut has yet surfaced.

11/06/05 The Kansas City Star reports that four of the nations top
college
basketball coaches, all listed as keynote speakers at the same banquet,
Michigan States Tom Izzo, Phil Martelli of St. Josephs, Boston
Colleges
Al Skinner and the guy who couldnt beat Bucknell, all met at the
Dickie
V. banquet. The guy who couldnt beat Bucknell was, of course, Bill
Self.
Self, after several months of silence, finally commented regarding the
BUCKNELL game to The Kansas City Star, stating: Not a day goes by when
I
dont think about that game, Self said. I cant escape it. Everywhere
I
go, theres a reminder about Bucknell. Everywhere Im introduced,
theres a
Bucknell joke that follows. On the outside, you smile and laugh and
say,
Ha-ha, thats funny, Self whispers. But Ill be honest. Deep down,
those
jokes they burn me up pretty good. Formerly suspended player, Jeff
Hawkins, had this to say: You could tell he was stressed by just
looking at
him, KU guard Jeff Hawkins said. His eyes were dull. He had lost that
shine that he usually has. Im sure he was going home every night and
waking
up every morning with so much weight on his back. Jason King concluded
the
article by noting: In just seven months, many aspects of Selfs dream
job
had turned into a nightmare.

11/15/05 Darnell Jackson ruled ineligible by NCAA Eligibility Committee
for
9 games for receipt of $5,000 in benefits from a Kansas booster over a
three
year period while being recruited by Kansas;

11/18/05 The Bill Self led Kansas Jayhawks start the 2005-2006 season
unranked in the polls for the first time in 14 years;

12/01/05 Kansas there after loses to Nevada (72-70), falling to a record
of
2-3 for the first time in over 30 years ; After the game, ESPN TV
cameras
captured an exchange between Kansas University assistant coach Joe
Dooley
and 19 year old Nevada player Nick Fazekas. When Fazekas held out his
hand
to shake Dooleys in an apparent show of sportsmanship, Dooley instead
screamed F*** YOU!!!! directly at Fazekas. Afterward, Coach Bill Self
reprimanded Dooley stating: "Obviously, in a hotly contested game like
this
one, emotions were high after the game. Coach Joe Dooley responded in an
inappropriate manner to an exchange with a Nevada player. Coach Dooley
added: "I have great respect for the Nevada team. They played well
tonight.
I responded in a negative manner to something that was said to me
following
the game. I certainly apologize to the Nevada program and this is not
the
manner in which Kansas basketball should be represented." However,
replays
of the exchange show Dooleys statement was dishonest as Fazekas clearly
did
not do or say anything to Dooley prior to the exchange other than making
the
gesture of holding out his hand .

01/14/06 Following a brief suspension from the NCAA for freshman Brandon
Rush, Bill Self continued to use the same motivational tactics for his
games
past, and this coaching practice has ended the streak, the Hawks lose
to
the Wildcats for the first time in 31 games. And in classic Brandon
style he
declares to the KU faithful another example of his loyalty to the
tradition
of the program, and notches one less game until he can declare for the
NBA.
The streak really doesnt matter to me because I wasnt a part of the
streak. Brandon Rush

Bootlegged
01-24-2006, 01:37 PM
Why did she leave?

Ari Chi3fs
01-24-2006, 01:40 PM
So Saul, you arent a KU basketball fan, anymore? Im confused.

Spicy McHaggis
01-24-2006, 01:42 PM
What a tard. Stay this year, get bigger, practice harder and I guarantee you'd have gotten Rush's minutes next season. Freaking prima donna.

Saulbadguy
01-24-2006, 01:43 PM
Im confused.
Implied.

sedated
01-24-2006, 01:43 PM
Downs and Galindo both looked like hard working guys that could also shoot, but were too slow to play the perimeter and too soft to play forward.

Good riddance, as long as this helps the team in the long run, as it should. Addition by subtraction.

We still got good shooters in Chalmers, Hawkins :shake: , and hopefully Robinson.

Just need some play on the post (Jackson), and start Wright at the 4, and we should be all good.

sedated
01-24-2006, 01:46 PM
What a tard. Stay this year, get bigger, practice harder and I guarantee you'd have gotten Rush's minutes next season. Freaking prima donna.


that's the problem with Self getting the type of guys roy wouldn't touch (except Giddens and Gregory).

they all want to leave after a year, and they suck because of it.

Rush, Giles, Downs all suffer cause they are looking ahead to the paycheck

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 01:49 PM
As a Jayhawk fan, I am pretty excited about Downs leaving. I'm not sure that he really ever showed any interest in becoming a better player in his short time at KU. He is just another Padgett to me.

While this will be a quick hit of negativity for the program, only positive will come out of this in the long run. Self now has another scholarship to work with for 2006-07 and hopefully he will use it on a good big man.

Hello Darrell Arthur???

Rumors are also swirling around Lawrence about CJ Giles being removed from the team at some point. Some people close to the situation are saying that Giles and his dad are becoming a problem with the coaches. This is all just speculation though, but don't be surprised if he is the next to go.

royr17
01-24-2006, 01:50 PM
By the way Moulaye didnt transfer

Spicy McHaggis
01-24-2006, 01:54 PM
Rush, Giles, Downs all suffer cause they are looking ahead to the paycheck

All three of them are a ways away from a paycheck right now. I agree with your point though, players do have a different attitude because as the cliche says they're playing for the name on the back and not the name on the front. I don't mean to say they don't care about winning games. But given the choice of winning or having the draft stock shoot up you have to wonder which one those guys would chose. ACtually I don't have to wonder. And that's what worries me.

Pitt Gorilla
01-24-2006, 01:55 PM
Damn. K-Fed Downs was a great punchline. Oh, well...

Spicy McHaggis
01-24-2006, 01:55 PM
By the way Moulaye didnt transfer

Yeah he retired. Bad back I believe. Still see him around the Towers every now and then.

Pitt Gorilla
01-24-2006, 01:58 PM
As a Jayhawk fan, I am pretty excited about Downs leaving. I'm not sure that he really ever showed any interest in becoming a better player in his short time at KU. He is just another Padgett to me.

While this will be a quick hit of negativity for the program, only positive will come out of this in the long run. Self now has another scholarship to work with for 2006-07 and hopefully he will use it on a good big man.

Hello Darrell Arthur???

Rumors are also swirling around Lawrence about CJ Giles being removed from the team at some point. Some people close to the situation are saying that Giles and his dad are becoming a problem with the coaches. This is all just speculation though, but don't be surprised if he is the next to go.You're excited about a high school AA leaving? Then why recruit him in the first place?

Braincase
01-24-2006, 02:02 PM
Patience, Jayhawk fans, patience.

Yeah, Downs is leaving, and we'll probably have a better player replacing him this fall. Downs got knocked for his work ethic, and he had a rep for being a prima donna coming in. Not a big deal.

Jayhawks will be fine in the long run, despite what chiefqueen thinks.

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:07 PM
Maybe excited is not the correct word to use here, but Downs really did not show me anything during his brief tenure that made be believe he would even have a decent career at KU. To me, it is quite obvious that the guy came into a situation that he had never been in before, and that is having to "earn" playing time. I know it is an outdated concept in this era, but when you come play for a school like KU, you can expect competition at every position. He wasn't good enough to beat out some players, specifically Rush, so he wants to quit.

Personally, my Jayhawk friends and I really wanted to see Downs get better and succeed, but by not sticking through a year, getting bigger, and letting Rush go to the NBA, it shows me his true attitude towards KU. So now I say, yes, I am excited that he is leaving because the Jayhawks do not need quitters, and in the process, we will get another high school AA.

While on the subject of high school AA's, when are people going to realize that not every AA is going to be a good college player? This is the same deal as some great college players not cutting it in the NBA.

Mr. Laz
01-24-2006, 02:10 PM
Patience, Jayhawk fans, patience.

Yeah, Downs is leaving, and we'll probably have a better player replacing him this fall. Downs got knocked for his work ethic, and he had a rep for being a prima donna coming in. Not a big deal.

Jayhawks will be fine in the long run, despite what chiefqueen thinks.
so is he recruiting the wrong kind of kids or is he not handling them right once they get here.



laz
~never seen so many kids transfer in such a short time~

Braincase
01-24-2006, 02:12 PM
so is he recruiting the wrong kind of kids or is he not handling them right once they get here.



laz
~never seen so many kids transfer in such a short time~

Maybe the kids can't deal with the whole "competing for time" and "discipline" thing that is expected.

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:17 PM
It is my opinion that these kids come in here believing they are the greatest players in the country and should be starting or playing significant minutes. However, the college game is much different from the cupcake HS leagues they played in and some can't handle that change.

Look at Robinson last year...here is a player who struggled greatly and had a hard time adjusting to the college game. He was patient and is now one of the best players on the team, and will probably be one of the best guards in the country by his senior year.

On the other hand, maybe Self promises the world to these recruits in order to get them. Then they come to KU and find out life isn't as rosy as Self told them. I'm sure both coach and player can be blamed for these recent transfers, but I'll bet it has more to do with the attitudes of the players, specifically in the case of Giddens, Downs, and Padgett.

KCChiefsMan
01-24-2006, 02:19 PM
ya I am starting to question Self as a coach, you don't lose 7 point leads with 40 seconds left. All of the 3 point shooters are gone, wtf!

DJJasonp
01-24-2006, 02:21 PM
[QUOTE=DubbleDownBKU]As a Jayhawk fan, I am pretty excited about Downs leaving. I'm not sure that he really ever showed any interest in becoming a better player in his short time at KU. He is just another Padgett to me.


...meanwhile David Padgett is averaging 13 pts a game and just put up 27 against UCONN.


As a true KU fan....I've had enough of the Self era. The timeline posted earlier should be a crude wake up call for all of the fans with blinders on.

He cant coach against the zone, he doesnt make in-game or halftime adjustments worth a crap, and he obviously has a hard time recruiting the "RIGHT" kids for the program. What good does it do to go out and get the best kids if they're not right for YOUR program???

I'm sure a decent percentage of these situations with kids leaving is upon the kids.....but at some point, you have to take a look at the coach, what kind of kid he is recruiting (along with the kid's family....hello new member of my staff Mr. Chalmers), but more importantly, how that kid is going to fit into your system (as well as playing time plans).

Looks a lot like self is makign a whole lot of promises he cant keep.

Besides that....it's a BS excuse to say Galindo or Downs were too big and small to work the perimeter, etc etc......A good coach would have known that before recruiting them. You cant blame that on the kids. If Self needs two perimeter players who can knock down the 3 pointer and defend the opponent's #1 shooter....why recruit kids who dont fit that bill??????

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:30 PM
What Padgett is doing at 'Ville is irrelevant. He left here because he wanted to be featured differently and play a different style of offense. Why come to KU under Bill Self if you know you don't like his offense??? I've watched him play a couple games this year and he is playing the same way KU used him his freshman year. I think he left because he received some criticism here and was too soft to handle it.

All transfers up to this point were players recruited by Roy Boy, except for Galindo. Those guys couldn't work in Self's system, so they left. Maybe Galindo was a poor fit, or was used improperly, but he needed to stick for another year to find out. Downs is probably the same case...you probably can blame Self for this one, as he knew what he was recruiting in the first place. A prima donna with a bad attitude not accepting of any kind of coaching.

DJJasonp
01-24-2006, 02:33 PM
What Padgett is doing at 'Ville is irrelevant. He left here because he wanted to be featured differently and play a different style of offense. Why come to KU under Bill Self if you know you don't like his offense??? I've watched him play a couple games this year and he is playing the same way KU used him his freshman year. I think he left because he received some criticism here and was too soft to handle it.

All transfers up to this point were players recruited by Roy Boy, except for Galindo. Those guys couldn't work in Self's system, so they left. Maybe Galindo was a poor fit, or was used improperly, but he needed to stick for another year to find out. Downs is probably the same case...you probably can blame Self for this one, as he knew what he was recruiting in the first place. A prima donna with a bad attitude not accepting of any kind of coaching.

This is my argument....Galindo and Downs....both Self recruits....Self knew what he was getting....so why the trouble fiding where they fit?

Kind of like how this year he's spent over 15 games trying to develop a rotation that works......every single announcing team over the last 10 games has been critical of his inabililty to find the right mix of players and solidify his rotation.

Mr. Laz
01-24-2006, 02:35 PM
Maybe the kids can't deal with the whole "competing for time" and "discipline" thing that is expected.
so he's recruiting kids without much mental toughness?

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:36 PM
I won't argue with you that Self is not a good game coach. I don't think anybody ever accused him of being one of the better game coaches around. His expertise and ability lie in recruiting, which I would say he has done well. So far, some of the recruits haven't panned out though.

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:37 PM
LJWorld reporting that Down's has left for personal issues. (http://www.kusports.com/news/mens_basketball/story/116938)



Please tell me that the "personal" issues are not about his girlfriend back home...... :banghead:

Spicy McHaggis
01-24-2006, 02:40 PM
I think he left because he received some criticism here and was too soft to handle it.

I maintain that the "Free For All" was half the of the reason Padgett left. THe other was his role in the offense and his meddling father.

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:44 PM
I know some guys close to the program that said Padgett's dad and Bill Self did not get along very well. Criticism in the "Free For All" hurt his feelings and his dad's beef with Self was most of the reason.

Mr. Laz
01-24-2006, 02:48 PM
when is the last time you heard of anyone transferring from a top echelon program other than KC?

i don't recall hearing of anyone EVER transferring from Duke or kentucky.... but i don't follow them much.

RockChalk
01-24-2006, 02:55 PM
Well I'm about 99% sure that Coach Mike Kryskasjf;askjfasfski at Duke is a very close relative of the devil, so he makes each recruit sign a waiver giving him the rights to their soul if they transfer.

As for Kentucky, I'm not sure. Good point though, we sure have had a lot of transfers it seems like. Maybe it's because the transfers are regional stories that don't get a lot of national coverage, so we dont' hear about transfers at Duke, Kentucky, or other top programs.

In all seriousness though, it could be that the coaches at Duke, Kentucky, etc. make it known to each recruit that they are not bigger than the school. They tell them when they commit that Duke will always be bigger than you, but that you can add to the tradition that makes Duke what it is.

Lzen
01-24-2006, 02:57 PM
It's generally a bad sign when he b!tched about not getting enough playing time in the McDonalds All-American game.

Then he disappears for several games, and doesn't even get mop-up duty in a 40 point rout.


not a surprise

Yes. I was a little concerned when I heard about him bitching in the McD's AA game. Oh well, KU has too much talent anyway. Although it would've been nice if he could've developed into the 3 point threat that he was made out to be.

Lzen
01-24-2006, 03:11 PM
All of the 3 point shooters are gone, wtf!

Huh? How you figure?

Mario Chalmers is hitting 43% of his 3s.
Brandon Rush is hitting 42%.
Jeff Hawkins is hitting 50%.

I will admit that I questioned Self's coaching in the loss to MU. Should not leave a crappy FT shooter in the game when the other team needs to foul. Bad coaching decision.

Lzen
01-24-2006, 03:19 PM
.....he doesnt make in-game or halftime adjustments worth a crap

Oh really? And how many games this season have they scored more points in the 2nd half? Don't bother answering that question, I'll tell you. Most of their games. KU has definitely been a 2nd half team this year. So that argument doesn't really fly.

The players Self had when he got here were not really built for his type of offense (or defense for that matter). It is taking time to change over the program. Also, I think everyone is forgetting that this year's team is very young and inexperienced. And young and inexperienced teams tend to struggle. As a KU fan, I'm willing to give Self another couple years to see what he can do with his recruits.

WilliamTheIrish
01-24-2006, 03:20 PM
I railed long and loud about that horsespit 5-8 rule that the NCAA put in place about 5 years ago.

But after the big girls of men's CBB complained, the rule was changed.

Today, if that rule were in place, KU would be in a world of hurt.

Shows what coaches like K, Roy and Tubby can do when they whine.

sedated
01-24-2006, 04:09 PM
We wonder how Self gets all these guys, then we wonder why they transfer.

He clearly promises too much - Playing time, going to NBA.

That's part of his problem, he recruits prima donnas by appealing to their selfish nature.

Then gets upset because they aren't working hard. :rolleyes:


Roy never would gone through this because he recruits kids like Kirk, Nick, Raef, etc, etc, etc (Hansborough?) that like to work, and know it will pay off.

sedated
01-24-2006, 04:12 PM
I maintain that the "Free For All" was half the of the reason Padgett left. THe other was his role in the offense and his meddling father.


He left because he wanted Roy to coach him.

That "offensive role" thing was B.S., he does the same at Louisville that he did here, play on the perimeter, feeding the other big man and making outside shots.

Offensive scheme in general, I'll give you that.

He wanted to run with Roy's fast break, and knew Self would make him slow down and play physical.

HolyHandgernade
01-24-2006, 04:31 PM
when is the last time you heard of anyone transferring from a top echelon program other than KC?

i don't recall hearing of anyone EVER transferring from Duke or kentucky.... but i don't follow them much.

I can't remember their names, but Duke had an outside shooter that just killed us in the Final Four, and he ended up transferring to Vanderbilt. The year of Battier and Brand's class they had another recruit who's last name began with a B who transferred as well.

I don't follow Kentucky that closely, but they have had a couple of players recently who came very close to transferring.

I can't recall anyone from North Carolina at the moment but I think they take the opposite philosophy there. If the players are spoiled and unhappy, they fire the coach instead.

-HH

Mr. Laz
01-24-2006, 04:35 PM
I can't remember their names, but Duke had an outside shooter that just killed us in the Final Four, and he ended up transferring to Vanderbilt. The year of Battier and Brand's class they had another recruit who's last name began with a B who transferred as well.

I don't follow Kentucky that closely, but they have had a couple of players recently who came very close to transferring.

I can't recall anyone from North Carolina at the moment but I think they take the opposite philosophy there. If the players are spoiled and unhappy, they fire the coach instead.

-HH

fair enough... i don't follow them enough


but man ... seems like alot of guys are leaving KU

sedated
01-24-2006, 04:59 PM
but man ... seems like alot of guys are leaving KU


a lot of that had to do with the cleansing of the Roy era: Padget, Giddens, Moulaye.

Galindo got home-sick, and didn't want to play forward (he's only 6-7)

Downs didn't get enough PT. It had to happen eventually, you can't make everyone happy when you have too much young talent.

Self just needs to recruit some hard-working role players, not everyone has to be a McDAA and in the top 25 of high schoolers.

savedin79
01-24-2006, 05:02 PM
He sucked anyway!

sedated
01-24-2006, 05:32 PM
He sucked anyway!


very enlightening opinion.

I think he showed flashes of being able to do a lot of things: rebound, pass, hustle, play smart.

and he could shoot lights out.


I'll miss the ability, not the crap that came with it.

schneider221
01-24-2006, 05:49 PM
after skimming this thread these thoughts came to my head......

r. stewart is not goin to play more. self has narrowed the rotation down and i think will stay with it. plus downs barely got any minutes so there isnt alot of time to take. he is a point/2 guard who can dunk, i doubt he has much of a inside presence and he shot horrible his first year at USC and hasnt shown he can shoot yet. he is supposed to be a tenacious defender.

many people have said downs was horrible in practice. many people in the program have also said that all downs does is sit in his room and talk to his gf back home. alot of times people will use this "sickness" excuse for a transfer bc if doesnt make player look bad or school, but with self saying downs was in the hospital and taking ivs that is something you dont just make up for the benefit of the program. i think when you break it down it is probably about 70% 30% wants more playing time but who knows if playing time would have cured him.

either way i wish him the best as a ku fan and as long as he doesnt go to a rival or is playing ku i will root for him....padgett and galindo(who many people ahve said was a huge cancer at practice) not so much

sedated
01-24-2006, 07:12 PM
Self said he might never play basketball again.

I wonder ehat going on, maybe we have another Luke Axtell / alcoholic situation.

doomy3
01-24-2006, 07:15 PM
Sounds like this extends far beyond anything Self has has done, and Micah's dad said that it has nothing to do with basketball, and it is a personal thing, and he went home. Seems very strange...

Spicy McHaggis
01-24-2006, 07:36 PM
He left because he wanted Roy to coach him.

That "offensive role" thing was B.S., he does the same at Louisville that he did here, play on the perimeter, feeding the other big man and making outside shots.

Offensive scheme in general, I'll give you that.

He wanted to run with Roy's fast break, and knew Self would make him slow down and play physical.

He's a sally. I'll say it for you.

leviw
01-24-2006, 08:21 PM
I was at the game on Saturday, and we were all questioning why Downs wasn't getting any PT, even late in the first half when the game was no longer in doubt.

Over midway through the second half after most of the scrubs were already in, Self went down the bench and said something to Downs. Downs shook his head. Self nodded and walked back to his chair.

At some point, Bob and Max said on the radio that Downs had the flu.

I'm guessing Self's exchange with Downs was asking him if he wanted to give it a go, and Downs declined. But, who really knows?

KILLER_CLOWN
01-24-2006, 09:49 PM
Padgett ain't that great, and the only reason he transferred is because his Daddy wanted him to be a point forward. We see how far that has gotten him with Pitino. If you don't believe me head over to the L-ville board, they dog on D-Pad more than we ever did. Downs is leaving because of personal reasons, the main rumor being he's homesick and misses his HS sweetheart. It doesn't look that great from where were sitting yet we had the same problem with transfers last year and still landed the #1 pg in the country in Sherron Collins. Relax all is well in Jayhawk land.

Dunit35
01-24-2006, 10:55 PM
Downs wasnt that impressive anyways, but oh well it happens.

Mr. Laz
01-25-2006, 09:51 AM
Posted on Wed, Jan. 25, 2006
A ‘bothersome’ trend, Self says transfers part of today’s game

By JASON KING
The Kansas City Star

LAWRENCE — Anyone who coached or played with Micah Downs at Kansas will tell you the freshman had loads of potential.
The question was whether Downs would ever realize it.

“On paper, you could look and say, ‘Hey, this guy could be really good in year two, three and four,’ ” KU coach Bill Self said Tuesday night. “But I’m not sure we would’ve ever gotten to that stage considering the state Micah is presently in.”

Downs decided to transfer from Kansas because of “personal problems.” Self declined to discuss specifics surrounding Downs’ situation, saying only that Downs didn’t go into detail about what was bothering him.
Downs declined an interview request when reached by The Star. He did issue a release through the school’s media-relations department.

“I apologize to my former teammates and coaches for leaving at mid-year,” Downs said. “I feel I can best deal with some personal problems closer to home that have been weighing on me the past few months.”
Downs’ father, Steve, also issued a statement and said his son’s decision was not a “basketball issue.”

While Downs works out his problems, Self has plenty on the table himself these days. Downs becomes the sixth player in the Self regime to transfer, a trend that Self described as “bothersome.”

“In this age of athletics, guys will leave because it’s a different mentality than it was 10 years ago,” Self said. “Guys go places based on a situation rather than the actual school.”

Self said it’s possible other schools could use KU’s recent batch of transfers as ammunition against Self during recruiting wars. ESPN analyst Jay Bilas, however, said the situation shouldn’t reflect negatively on Self.

“If you look at Bill’s record, he didn’t have a lot of transfers (before he came to Kansas in 2003),” Bilas said. “That’s not an issue. You expect some turnover when you have a new coach. Kansas will be fine.
“Kids have a quicker trigger on these things now. Sometimes they just need to stick it out.”

Downs’ departure means that Kansas could sign as many as two more players during the spring. Darrell Arthur, a 6-foot-9 forward from Dallas, is still deciding between KU and Indiana. California high school standout Davon Jefferson also has the Jayhawks on his list.
Arthur and Jefferson, a small forward, are arguably the top two unsigned players in the class of 2006.

“Micah has the potential to be a very good player,” Self said. “But as far as this hurting us … I don’t think that will be the case. If a player can’t pour everything he’s got into a situation, there’s probably someone else out there that can. “We may be better off knowing this now rather than finding out in the spring, when the pool of (recruits) is much smaller.”


Hawks who flew the coop

This is Bill Self’s third season at Kansas. Micah Downs became the sixth player who has transferred during Self’s tenure.

 Name Time at KU New school

 Omar Wilkes 2003-04 California
 Sophomore guard averaging 9.1 points,
 1.7 rebounds, 1.9 assists

 David Padgett 2003-04 Louisville
 Averaging 12.6 ppg, team-high 6.5 rpg; scored 27
 vs. UConn

 Nick Bahe 2004-05 Creighton
 Nebraska native returned to home state;
 redshirting with Bluejays

 Alex Galindo 2004-05 Florida International
 Redshirting; averaged 4.1 ppg as freshman at KU
 in 2004-05

 J.R. Giddens 2003-05 New Mexico
 Redshirting; last summer’s Moon Bar fight led to
 his departure

 Micah Downs 2005-06 Undecided
 Left team, returned to Seattle because of “personal problems”

Braincase
01-25-2006, 10:24 AM
Looks like maybe he was missing his girlfriend back home too much.

chiefqueen
01-25-2006, 11:41 AM
By the way Moulaye didnt transfer

Look very hard tonight and you'll see Moulaye in the huddle during TO's.

sedated
01-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I heard Micah's dad lost his job or something and the family is going through difficult times, and he's going back to help the family.

Probably none of these rumors are true, but they might add up to a bit of truth.


I still think he knocked up his girlfriend.

chiefqueen
01-25-2006, 11:47 AM
Patience, Jayhawk fans, patience.

Yeah, Downs is leaving, and we'll probably have a better player replacing him this fall. Downs got knocked for his work ethic, and he had a rep for being a prima donna coming in. Not a big deal.

Jayhawks will be fine in the long run, despite what chiefqueen thinks.

Actually Downs leaving doesn't bother at all, I too had misgivings about the kid after the McD's AA game last year. Now KU's RPI still being over 100 is another matter (even though it went up 2 notches from 113 to 111 today).

sedated
01-25-2006, 12:02 PM
Now KU's RPI still being over 100 is another matter (even though it went up 2 notches from 113 to 111 today).


thanks, Kentucky, for not blowing another one last night

DJJasonp
01-25-2006, 02:12 PM
Oh really? And how many games this season have they scored more points in the 2nd half? Don't bother answering that question, I'll tell you. Most of their games. KU has definitely been a 2nd half team this year. So that argument doesn't really fly.

The players Self had when he got here were not really built for his type of offense (or defense for that matter). It is taking time to change over the program. Also, I think everyone is forgetting that this year's team is very young and inexperienced. And young and inexperienced teams tend to struggle. As a KU fan, I'm willing to give Self another couple years to see what he can do with his recruits.

It's not all about how many points we score in the second half...

I'll give examples...

K-State runs the same offensive set and play 15 times in a row and we cant stop it....they go on a run and eventually up...and we lose (Self doesnt call a timeout to design a way for KU to ADJUST and stop the play from working for K-STate).

At the end of the MU game......Moody's in the game.....and in OT...when you need a 3....No small line-up with outside shooters. I believe Hawkins, Downs, Case, Vinson were all on the bench.

Against Arizona (and others), our guards were struggling bringing the ball up the court against full court pressure....waited 4 or 5 possessions before making adjustments to help get the ball up the court.

Anytime a team goes zone against us (minus the Nebraska game where our shots were going in), the kids look like they've never seen one before.

Yes, we're a young team, but this young team would not have lost as many games as they have with Roy. (It hurts to say it, cause I havent forgiven him....but it's the truth)

Poster Nutbag
01-25-2006, 03:37 PM
Don't mind Micah, he's got sand in his vagina.

I hope the little wuss winds up playing 6th man for a Latvian B-League squad after this career boosting move.

DON"T LET HIM OUT OF HIS LOI BILL!

Pitt Gorilla
01-25-2006, 03:48 PM
Don't mind Micah, he's got sand in his vagina.

I hope the little wuss winds up playing 6th man for a Latvian B-League squad after this career boosting move.

DON"T LET HIM OUT OF HIS LOI BILL!I think Bill will have to let him out if he doesn't want this to be used against him in recruiting.

schneider221
01-26-2006, 01:22 PM
Yes, we're a young team, but this young team would not have lost as many games as they have with Roy. (It hurts to say it, cause I havent forgiven him....but it's the truth)

i dont think you can say this because you never know. roy loves to run the ball and with our freshmen i couldnt even imagine how many turnovers they would have. rush always seems to lose the ball or trip when he gets out of control. chalmers still makes bad decisions even though he is getting alot better. julian may be one of the better pasing bigs in the country already but sometimes he trys to do to much. micah threw a ton of passes away before he left. another example being drew gooden, remember roys qoute about him being a hurrican of turnovers or something like that his freshmen year. roy would have been running them like crazy and i dont think that would have helped them mature very fast at all. some people have forgotten that in big games roy was using brett ballard in games and he didnt get a ton of heat from that.

not saying self is a better coach bc right now he isnt, but i dont think you can say roy would have won more games just because it is to hard to tell and unfair to self