PDA

View Full Version : 'Shutdown' Corners.


HMc
01-25-2006, 03:29 AM
Do they actually exist? Who are they, if so?

Whenever i hear about a shutdown corner i then see that guy get burned that weekend. Surtain, Bailey etc.

I don' geddit.

CHIEF4EVER
01-25-2006, 03:48 AM
Do they actually exist? Who are they, if so?

Whenever i hear about a shutdown corner i then see that guy get burned that weekend. Surtain, Bailey etc.

I don' geddit.

With the changes in defensive contact rules shutdown corners don't exist anymore IMO.

Simplex3
01-25-2006, 03:49 AM
I think you're basically hoping for a "doesn't get burned every down like McCleon" corner at this point.

HMc
01-25-2006, 04:00 AM
I think you're basically hoping for a "doesn't get burned every down like McCleon" corner at this point.

ROFL

HMc
01-25-2006, 04:01 AM
With the changes in defensive contact rules shutdown corners don't exist anymore IMO.

What were those changes? Did they used to be able to be able to make contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage or something? Other changes?

Mecca
01-25-2006, 04:04 AM
What were those changes? Did they used to be able to be able to make contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage or something? Other changes?

They just enforce downfield contact alot more than they did in the past. Now if you touch a reciever past 5 yards you get flagged for it. With the way the rules are right now, you have to have a pass rush or the best corners in the league are going to look like scrubs.

dj56dt58
01-25-2006, 07:23 AM
Surtain is a shutdown corner..they hardly through the ball his way this season, and when they did he had good coverage. Most of the times he got "burned" were times he was expecting help deep and didn't get it, or was late getting there.

greg63
01-25-2006, 07:28 AM
What were those changes? Did they used to be able to be able to make contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage or something? Other changes?

Yes; I believe that is that is the rule. :D

StcChief
01-25-2006, 07:32 AM
Good cover corner is top of list now.
Shutdown has really disappeared with no contact 5yards

Look at what Big Ben and Sqweelers did to Bailey.

chief52
01-25-2006, 07:47 AM
With the changes in defensive contact rules shutdown corners don't exist anymore IMO.

Yes, I totally agree. The liberalization of the passing rules has made shut down corners a thing of the past.

NJ Chief Fan
01-25-2006, 08:02 AM
ty law vs marvin harrison in the playoffs= shut down corner

chief52
01-25-2006, 08:09 AM
What were those changes? Did they used to be able to be able to make contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage or something? Other changes?

Corners used to be able to bump the receiver as long as the receiver was still in front of him. They could bump him all the way down the field and actually prevent him from getting down the field. That was at least 15 or 20 years ago at a guess. Rules have changed and enforcement made stricter to put more offense in the game.

Radar Chief
01-25-2006, 08:13 AM
They just enforce downfield contact alot more than they did in the past. Now if you touch a reciever past 5 yards you get flagged for it. With the way the rules are right now, you have to have a pass rush or the best corners in the league are going to look like scrubs.

Unless that receiver is Tony Gonzalez, then defenders can get away with ass rape’n him all over the field.
Otherwise agreed, that’s the way it’s ‘spose’ta work.

jspchief
01-25-2006, 08:50 AM
Bailey isn't a shutdown corner and never has been. He's always been a guy that plays off his receiver and relies on his closing speed to make the play. That's why he gets so many picks (baiting the QB) and it's also why he gets burned.

Surtain used to be a shutdown corner. But as others have said, the new emphasis on downfield contact makes it hard to play a WR tight. You can't blanket a guy because the first time you bump him in the process, you get yellow laundry.

The new age CB will have to be able to play off, then close the gap quickly. Guys like DeAngelo Hall and Bailey are very good at that.

ChiefsfaninPA
01-25-2006, 09:25 AM
Bailey isn't a shutdown corner and never has been. He's always been a guy that plays off his receiver and relies on his closing speed to make the play. That's why he gets so many picks (baiting the QB) and it's also why he gets burned.

You mean Chump isn't a shut down corner? You are borderline blasphemous with that statement. I hope the football gods (aka ZachKC) aren't reading.

jspchief
01-25-2006, 09:29 AM
You mean Chump isn't a shut down corner? You are borderline blasphemous with that statement. I hope the football gods (aka ZachKC) aren't reading.Any Bronco fan that actually watches the game should agree with me 100%.

Bailey doesn't try and shutdown his side of the field. He trys to bait QBs into throwing to it. He plays off his guy, and has the acceleration to close once the ball is in the air.

If he wanted to be a shutdown corner, he probably could. He just chooses to play it differently.

ChiefsfaninPA
01-25-2006, 09:36 AM
Any Bronco fan that actually watches the game should agree with me 100%.

Bailey doesn't try and shutdown his side of the field. He trys to bait QBs into throwing to it. He plays off his guy, and has the acceleration to close once the ball is in the air.

If he wanted to be a shutdown corner, he probably could. He just chooses to play it differently.

I agree with you dude is totally overrated. He is no scrub, but not a shut down corner.

jspchief
01-25-2006, 09:44 AM
I agree with you dude is totally overrated. He is no scrub, but not a shut down corner.You're not agreeing with me, because I'm not saying he's overrated.

I'm saying "shutdown" isn't his game. He gambles instead. IMO, he has the physical tools to easily be the best CB in the league, and the only thing holding him back his approach to coverage. Mislabeld? Sure. Overrated? Not IMO.

The guys that always blanket their man don't ever get thrown on, so they don't ever get the glory of the INT ran back for a TD. It's not "sexy" to shutdown one half of the field, regardless of how good it is for your defense. That's why Surtain never got the run that Bailey does.

UKMike
01-25-2006, 10:01 AM
You're not agreeing with me, because I'm not saying he's overrated.

I'm saying "shutdown" isn't his game. He gambles instead. IMO, he has the physical tools to easily be the best CB in the league, and the only thing holding him back his approach to coverage. Mislabeld? Sure. Overrated? Not IMO.

The guys that always blanket their man don't ever get thrown on, so they don't ever get the glory of the INT ran back for a TD. It's not "sexy" to shutdown one half of the field, regardless of how good it is for your defense. That's why Surtain never got the run that Bailey does.

I agree, but guys that play it like Surtain aren't going to become obsolete. In fact, I'd rather have 2 guys that play the Surtain way and just let the safetys make the big plays.

Chris Meck
01-25-2006, 10:10 AM
I pretty much agree what everyone's saying here.

I also think that Surtain and Warfield make one of the better duos around; if we had a more consistent pass rush we'd see that. With the new...well, not NEW, but STRICTER interpretation of the rules nobody can just blanket a receiver all day. Any corner is gonna look bad if he's got to cover too long downfield.

It really shifts the emphasis to your front seven; and specifically, your front four. Witness New England winning last year's super bowl with scrubs and a WR at corner. But their front seven was tight.


Chris

Chiefnj
01-25-2006, 10:21 AM
Being an elite corner is a catch 22. Coaches will often put you on the oppositions best receiver and leave you on an island. That corner can cover and break up 8 of 9 passes, but it's that 1 for a TD that people remember.

Mr. Laz
01-25-2006, 10:38 AM
Do they actually exist? Who are they, if so?

Whenever i hear about a shutdown corner i then see that guy get burned that weekend. Surtain, Bailey etc.

I don' geddit.
maybe cause you're taking the term too literally like GAZ does


it's not like a light switch ... the cornerback just doesn't turn the receiver off, they never did.


what it basically means is that you have confidence in a cornerback in a one-on-one situation.





1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... 6 ...


laz
~the kinder and gentler one~

CoMoChief
01-25-2006, 10:40 AM
ty law vs marvin harrison in the playoffs= shut down corner


They changed the rules simply because of that game. MH was getting raped all game.

milkman
01-25-2006, 10:58 AM
They changed the rules simply because of that game. MH was getting raped all game.

That's right, although the rule wasn't actually changed, the NFL just placed more emphasis on enforcing the existing rule.

It should be called the Mangina enforcement.

If Mangina doesn't cry all offseason, then the NFL wouldn't have looked at it.

Taco John
01-25-2006, 10:59 AM
Bailey isn't a shutdown corner and never has been. He's always been a guy that plays off his receiver and relies on his closing speed to make the play.



Uh, that's not even close. He doesn't "always" do anything.

Taco John
01-25-2006, 11:03 AM
Any Bronco fan that actually watches the game should agree with me 100%.


ROFL

Dude, you're not even close. Bailey is able to do it all, and does it based on his film study of the man he's up against that week and what the best technique against them is. He can do it all. (ie. play off his man, or bump and run)

He is about as "shut down" as you can be in this league, though sometimes he gambles and it costs him... Other times his Safety help (Ferguson) misses his assignment and makes Bailey look bad, because Bailey expects help and doesn't get it.

But what Bailey doesn't do is play one particular style (ie. Play off the guy all the time and close the gap).

Deberg_1990
01-25-2006, 11:15 AM
Deion Sanders and of course William Bartee were the last true shutdown corners..

jspchief
01-25-2006, 11:48 AM
ROFL

Dude, you're not even close. Bailey is able to do it all, and does it based on his film study of the man he's up against that week and what the best technique against them is. He can do it all. (ie. play off his man, or bump and run)

He is about as "shut down" as you can be in this league, though sometimes he gambles and it costs him... Other times his Safety help (Ferguson) misses his assignment and makes Bailey look bad, because Bailey expects help and doesn't get it.

But what Bailey doesn't do is play one particular style (ie. Play off the guy all the time and close the gap).I'm not talking about playing off pre-snap. I'm talking about playing off in coverage. He rarely plays tight on his man in coverage. Maybe my use of the word "always" was a little too liberal, but I didn't realize it was going to be taken literally.

Bailey plays off his guys most of the time. He relies on his closing speed. It allows him to not get burnt on routes' misdirection as often. It's not neccessarily a bad thing, and it's gotten him a lot of picks. I believe if he wanted to "shutdown" his side of the field, he could achieve it by playing his men tighter. I agree he can do it all. I said as much in one of my posts. But I also believe he plays off by design. Deion Sanders did the same thing, with a lot of the same results as Bailey gets... a lot of sexy break-ups and INTs, and occasional burn marks.

Calcountry
01-25-2006, 11:49 AM
They just enforce downfield contact alot more than they did in the past. Now if you touch a reciever past 5 yards you get flagged for it. With the way the rules are right now, you have to have a pass rush or the best corners in the league are going to look like scrubs.I am not down with the automatic first down chit.

Give em 5 plus the down over, thats enough.

B_Ambuehl
01-25-2006, 12:16 PM
A lot of it depends on the defensive scheme as well. A hyped up "shutdown corner" (media's term not mine) that is able to make plays while always facing the quarterback in a cover 2 (Vasher, Nathan/Barber, Ronde), might very well look like absolute shit when they have to turn their back to the quarterback in a man to man scheme such as the one run by Gunther Cunningham or Larry Coyer.

Taco John
01-25-2006, 12:32 PM
I'm not talking about playing off pre-snap. I'm talking about playing off in coverage. He rarely plays tight on his man in coverage. Maybe my use of the word "always" was a little too liberal, but I didn't realize it was going to be taken literally.

Bailey plays off his guys most of the time. He relies on his closing speed. It allows him to not get burnt on routes' misdirection as often. It's not neccessarily a bad thing, and it's gotten him a lot of picks. I believe if he wanted to "shutdown" his side of the field, he could achieve it by playing his men tighter. I agree he can do it all. I said as much in one of my posts. But I also believe he plays off by design. Deion Sanders did the same thing, with a lot of the same results as Bailey gets... a lot of sexy break-ups and INTs, and occasional burn marks.



Something that Bailey is really good at doing is jamming his guy at the line and disrupting his timing, and then turning around to keep with the guy stride for stride. You're right that a big part of his strategy is to play deeper than his man, and jump a route. One of his specialties is being able to have an eye on the receiver and on the quarterback at the same time.

The word "always" is what got me, because Bailey doesn't "always" do any one thing. He's got all the tools, and uses them all depending on who he's up against and what the situation calls for.

As for the term "shut down corner," It doesn't get used that much at all, except when someone is railing against the term. That said, Bailey has shut down receivers for entire games. He's also gotten burnt multiple times per game before too, usually by one of the better receivers in the league.

I can't imagine a CB I'd want on my team more than Bailey.

Gaz
01-26-2006, 07:53 AM
No, there is no such thing as a “shutdown corner.”

xoxo~
Gaz
Not a big fan of the completion-happy NFL rules.