Silverado burns less gas Than a Toyota Prius!

[recxjake]

From GM Training; Did You Know?
A FlexFuel Silverado or Sierra Pickup that uses E85 fuel
burns less gasoline over 12,000 miles of driving than a Toyota Prius?


It's true, because E85 fuel is made of 85% ethanol and just 15% gasoline. Plus, ethanol is made from home-grown, renewable resources – which helps lessen U.S. dependency on foreign oil sources and supports American agriculture. In addition, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline – which means reduced carbon dioxide emissions.

GM is an industry leader in producing FlexFuel vehicles that are capable of operating on E85 fuel. Current models include Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Impala and Monte Carlo, plus GMC Sierra, Yukon, and Yukon XL.

Please encourage everyone on your sales team to view the upcoming IDL broadcast – Live Green, Go Yellow. GM's E85 FlexFuel Vehicles. They will learn more about FlexFuel technology, the role FlexFuel vehicles play in GM's fuel-efficiency strategy and, most importantly, how they can sell the features and benefits of FlexFuel vehicles and use GM's leadership position as a competitive advantage.

to find an E 85 Station near you check the link.
http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php

www.gminsidenews.com
__________________

[Donger]

From GM Training; Did You Know?
A FlexFuel Silverado or Sierra Pickup that uses E85 fuel
burns less gasoline over 12,000 miles of driving than a Toyota Prius?


It's true, because E85 fuel is made of 85% ethanol and just 15% gasoline. Plus, ethanol is made from home-grown, renewable resources – which helps lessen U.S. dependency on foreign oil sources and supports American agriculture. In addition, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline – which means reduced carbon dioxide emissions.

GM is an industry leader in producing FlexFuel vehicles that are capable of operating on E85 fuel. Current models include Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Impala and Monte Carlo, plus GMC Sierra, Yukon, and Yukon XL.

Please encourage everyone on your sales team to view the upcoming IDL broadcast – Live Green, Go Yellow. GM's E85 FlexFuel Vehicles. They will learn more about FlexFuel technology, the role FlexFuel vehicles play in GM's fuel-efficiency strategy and, most importantly, how they can sell the features and benefits of FlexFuel vehicles and use GM's leadership position as a competitive advantage.

to find an E 85 Station near you check the link.
http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php

www.gminsidenews.com
__________________


Wow. So, it burns less gasoline because it runs on ethanol?

Sort this under the "no f*cking shit" category.

[KCChiefsMan]

huh

[Phobia]

I'll take 2.

[Simplex3]

Of course the cost of E85 (IF you could get it) would soon be every bit as high as gasoline, thereby making this a completely idiotic point.

[Reaper16]

Unbiased source you've got there

[SLAG]

LIKE A ROCK BABY!

[TinyEvel]

Of course the cost of E85 (IF you could get it) would soon be every bit as high as gasoline, thereby making this a completely idiotic point.

I think the idea is to save the environment, rather than reduce costs of operation.
The fuel savings from buying a Hybrid version of a cas car (i.e. a Hybrid engine option on an Accord costs 5 to 6 grand more) don't break even until something like seven years on average.

But I was curious why GM was putting all their research money into Ethanol rather than Hybrid.

I guess if they really could revive the farming industry it would be a plus-plus.
Nut I'm sure some lobbyists and some politicians will find a way to screw the pooch.

[Sully]

I just found ou tthat my printer burns less gas than a Prius as well. A great day all around!!!!

[SLAG]

But I was curious why GM was putting all their research money into Ethanol rather than Hybrid.

I guess if they really could revive the farming industry it would be a plus-plus.
Nut I'm sure some lobbyists and some politicians will find a way to screw the pooch.

You cant Have a 500hp stock corvette with a EffN Electric Engine

[Bugeater]

Wow, talk about spin. Of course it burns less gasoline if the "fuel" is only 15% gasoline. What they aren't telling you is these vehicles actually get less miles per gallon of "fuel".

[Simplex3]

But I'm sure some lobbyists and some politicians will find a way to screw the pooch.
Amen brother.

[Simplex3]

You cant Have a 500hp stock corvette with a EffN Electric Engine
You'd be suprised. Give me an electric motor over a gas engine any day for speed off the line and torque.

I'd be curious how an electric dragster would do...

[dayzeofthenew]

Amen brother.

alternative fuels = less money for the thieves in washington (both Democrats and Republicans) . Period.

They can spin it how ever they want but the bottom line is oil is a business; and businesses are out toe make money.

[Hoover]

E 85 is great, but it is supported by your tax dollars.

You also get about 10% less MPG with E85

[ChiefsFanatic]

Of course the cost of E85 (IF you could get it) would soon be every bit as high as gasoline, thereby making this a completely idiotic point.

I thought the point was twofold. On one hand, the fuel is better for the environment, and on the other, it reduces our dependence on mid-eastern oil.

[Hoover]

I think with High gas prices we need bite the bullett and go with E85. I think the US could very well be all E85 in ten years.

[Donger]

They can spin it how ever they want but the bottom line is oil is a business; and businesses are out toe make money.

Yes. The oil companies are in business to make money. Not unlike most other corporations.

Do you think that profit wouldn't be made a company that creates alternative fuels?

[Baby Lee]

You'd be suprised. Give me an electric motor over a gas engine any day for speed off the line and torque.

I'd be curious how an electric dragster would do...
The pinchpoint on the 1/4 mile is no longer power. A top fuel dragster smokes a jet engine. The pinchpoint is applying the power to acceleration. The fuel dragster wins because rubber to pavement trumps jet force from a standstill. An electric dragster would, as best, equal top fuel.

[Cochise]

Wow, talk about spin. Of course it burns less gasoline if the "fuel" is only 15% gasoline. What they aren't telling you is these vehicles actually get less miles per gallon of "fuel".

No kidding. I looked in the owner's manual to see what kind of mileage my truck would get on ethanol (normally it gets about 20mpg) and it was like 12. IIRC. That's hummer-esque... let me check and see if I can find the real number since that's just off the top of my head. I remember it was very unimpressive.

I'm all for conserving fuel... but not at twice the price.

[Bugeater]

I thought the point was twofold. On one hand, the fuel is better for the environment, and on the other, it reduces our dependence on mid-eastern oil.

I'm not sure about the former, but the latter is enough to sell me on E85. That's what makes this spin job by GM so asinine, not only is it stupid, it's not necessary. All it does is show me how f-uped they still are.

[Cochise]

No kidding. I looked in the owner's manual to see what kind of mileage my truck would get on ethanol (normally it gets about 20mpg) and it was like 12. IIRC. That's hummer-esque... let me check and see if I can find the real number since that's just off the top of my head. I remember it was very unimpressive.

I'm all for conserving fuel... but not at twice the price.

I checked, and my 21 MPG highway goes down to 16 MPG on E85. So it's not as bad as I expected.

Still, no way in hell would I ever buy a car that only got 16mpg.

[Bugeater]

No kidding. I looked in the owner's manual to see what kind of mileage my truck would get on ethanol (normally it gets about 20mpg) and it was like 12. IIRC. That's hummer-esque... let me check and see if I can find the real number since that's just off the top of my head. I remember it was very unimpressive.

I'm all for conserving fuel... but not at twice the price.

Wow I knew there was a difference, but I didn't know it was that bad. I'm not sure about the prices, that supplier link didn't give any. I believe it's cheaper than gas.

[Bugeater]

I checked, and my 21 MPG highway goes down to 16 MPG on E85. So it's not as bad as I expected.

Still, no way in hell would I ever buy a car that only got 16mpg.


Here's an example I pulled up:

When the price of unleaded in Springfield, Ill., was at $2.49 a gallon, E85 was going for as little as $1.98 a gallon. Drivers in Indiana have reported a spread of as much as 60 cents a gallon.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Savinganddebt/Saveonacar/P125241.asp

Probably would end up costing a little more to use e85. To me, it would be worth it to lessen our demand on foreign oil. Then again, I'm wondering what the prices will be if there's more demand for it.

[Boozer]

I wonder how much petroleum is used to create that ethanol.

[Braincase]

So iffen Toyota were to make a Prius that burned E85, how would that compare to the Silverado, so long as we're comparing apples-to-apples...

[Cochise]

Here's an example I pulled up:

When the price of unleaded in Springfield, Ill., was at $2.49 a gallon, E85 was going for as little as $1.98 a gallon. Drivers in Indiana have reported a spread of as much as 60 cents a gallon.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Savinganddebt/Saveonacar/P125241.asp

Probably would end up costing a little more to use e85. To me, it would be worth it to lessen our demand on foreign oil. Then again, I'm wondering what the prices will be if there's more demand for it.

Interesting. I've got/had no idea how much E85 costs, since I see it so rarely. I don't know anywhere it can be bought down here in KC - I've seen it at lonely gasholes along I-35 on the way to Minneapolis but really noplace else.

[bunnytrdr]

Yes. The oil companies are in business to make money. Not unlike most other corporations.

Do you think that profit wouldn't be made a company that creates alternative fuels?Hey Pronger, how well does ethanol pipe through pipeline networks?

[morphius]

recxjake is obviously running on the GM kool aid.

[Boozer]

recxjake is obviously running on the GM kool aid.

Is that GM85 kool-aid?

[Donger]

Hey Pronger, how well does ethanol pipe through pipeline networks?

It doesn't.

[TinyEvel]

Man, I drink so much Vodka, I'm sure they could make a car that would run off my pi$$.
That would be cool.
Not sure how fast it would be in the 1/4 mile, tho.

[Braincase]

Is that GM85 kool-aid?

I think at some point recxjake stated in a thread that his dad worked for GMAC. Might've been laid off or something like that.

[morphius]

I think at some point recxjake stated in a thread that his dad worked for GMAC. Might've been laid off or something like that.
Yeah, and something about him wanting to work for them as well. Either that, or he does work for them already, can't remember which.

[FAX]

From The Fiat Design Center - Did You Know?

A 7up powered car burns 100% less gasoline than a Toyota Prius?

A new, experimental vehicle has proven that cars can be powered by 7up. Achieving over 870,000 horse power and over 409 sodas per gallon, Fiat believes that this may be the future of transportation.

"We were impressed with the trials," said a Fiat design engineer. "We had some initial problems with the car's exhaust system. She wanted to burp after the first couple of litres, but we were able to work that out by giving the manifold a good slap every few miles."

The new vehicle is expected to enter mass production within the next 12 months.

On a related issue, PepsiCo - holder of the 7up formula patent - have announced that the price of 7up has increased to over 18 dollars per gallon.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=52888

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=52887

FAX

[cdcox]

In addition, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline – which means reduced carbon dioxide emissions.




Yes ethanol has less carbon dioxide emisions than gasoline, but this misleading article wants you to believe that the Siverado has less CO2 emissions than the Prius. Just ain't so.

Prius greenhouse emissions: 3.5 tons per year.

Siverado 2WD running on E85 greenhouse emissions: 7.6 tons per year.

The amazing thing here is that GM is still one of the largest and highest caplitalized companies in the world, even after 30 years of living in denial. They still have 5-10 years to get that company turned around, but I wouldn't bet on them seeing the middle of the century.

[Bugeater]

Hey Pronger, how well does ethanol pipe through pipeline networks?

It doesn't.

What are you guys saying? Does that mean it has to be trucked all the way from the refinery to the station? That's going to complicate things.

[Dave Lane]

Of course the cost of E85 (IF you could get it) would soon be every bit as high as gasoline, thereby making this a completely idiotic point.

From an unbiased idiotic source!

Dave

[bsp4444]

NEVC (National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition) lists locations of the stations that sell E85. There is one in K.C.

Presto Conoco – Store #29
649 E. Bannister Rd.
Kansas City, MO 64131
816-333-2433

[NewPhin]

Ahh, it's good to see those outside of DC get a good healthy dose of the jake we've all grown to know and love in the cesspool.

[Extra Point]

You cant Have a 500hp stock corvette with a EffN Electric Engine
Sure ya can, but the range is for $hit!

[Chiefs Express]

I own a 2002 Prius and get between 45 and 51 MPG.

On a MPG standpoint I think your story needs some clarity.

On the other hand, when a Prius onboard computer is fried the cost for repair is up to $5,000.

[rageeumr]

Still, no way in hell would I ever buy a car that only got 16mpg.

16? Wow, that would be a good tank for me. I have been getting 13 as of late (with an I6) :banghead:

[Mi_chief_fan]

Here in SW Michigan, an Indiana-based company recently was given approval for a bio-diesel plant. I consider this a positive development, especially in an area where gasoline prices are still better that $2.40/gallon. Plus, it's bound to create some jobs.

Commissioners back biodiesel fuel plant
VAN BUREN COUNTY

By ANDREW LERSTEN

HPSouth Haven Bureau

PAW PAW — Van Buren County commissioners are pledging support to a biodiesel fuel plant to Bangor with the help of a state Agricultural Processing Renaissance Zone. The county board Tuesday voted in favor of creating the zone, which would replace the Renaissance Zone designation in

effect for the 9.32acre site in the city industrial park. The current Renaissance Zone, which gives property owners significant tax breaks, expires in 2011. City Manager Larry Nielsen said the new zone would start in 2007 and stay in effect for 10 years. Michigan Biodiesel LLC, a company formed by several Michigan farmers, plans to build the first biodiesel plant in the state. Plans call for opening the

plant by late May or early June, Nielsen said. The plant will initially be capable of producing up to 10 million gallons of biodiesel fuel per year. The county board resolution passed Tuesday will be sent to the Michigan Economic Development Corp., which will decide whether to create the new tax zone, Nielsen said. The Bangor City Council has already approved a similar resolution

of support.

[StcChief]

EBS is the obvious immediate future to save oil and reduce dependency.

Hydrogen cells may be long term. If you get the distribution refueling method cost down

[Amnorix]

In other news, GM lost nearly $5 **BILLION** in the fourth quarter of last year. They are in deep kimche...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/26/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes


I should note that a significant part of that is accounting losses, not actual cash.

[John_Wayne]

If we want cheaper gas prices and less dependancy on Arab / foreign oil there are things that we could / should do ASAP:

1. Drill in ANWAR.
2. Build more refineries. The US hasn't built new refineries since the 70's.
3. There are about 50 different gasoline formulas required in different regions of the US. Reduce it to 2 or 3 formulas. It's very expensive to make 50 different formulas.
4. Allow more US off shore drilling in the Gulf.
5. Use more Ethanol blended fuel.
6. Lower the federal / state gas taxes. In some places the cost of gas can be 50% taxes.

For the most part, these things aren't being done due to liberal and environmental (wacko) oposition. If you want us less dependant on Arab oil, out of the middle east and cheaper gas prices, vote Republican / Conservative in the next election. :)

[morphius]

I'd personally rather see us looking into putting togehter a hybrid/100% bio diesel then some of these ethonal engines.

But then of course people would be able to make fuel at home, and we can't have that.

[KCTitus]

I should note that a significant part of that is accounting losses, not actual cash....

That and the fact that GM has gone from a car manufacturer to health care provider.

[Chiefs Express]

In other news, GM lost nearly $5 **BILLION** in the fourth quarter of last year. They are in deep kimche...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/26/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes


I should note that a significant part of that is accounting losses, not actual cash.

Almost all, if not all, of the U.S. auto manufacturers are living in the past. They maintain the false concept that what they make is what the American people will buy. They have abandoned any notion of giving the consumer what they want. Their pricing is controlled by the needs to service the UAW. An employee that works 30 years with GM can retire and begin drawing up to $3,600 per month [$43,200 annually] plus having full medical coverage for their family. The impact of that on the price of any vehicle is substantial. Plus the fact that most U.S. auto makers have flat out rejected the hybrid concept and are fighting the hydrogen cell development.

Should the big 3 not change their strategy soon, they will find that all of their plants are either shutdown or sold to foreign interests, you know - the guys that know how to build a car that will last for 400k miles.

[Brock]

In other news, GM lost nearly $5 **BILLION** in the fourth quarter of last year. They are in deep kimche...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/26/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes


I should note that a significant part of that is accounting losses, not actual cash.

It all goes back to our government not pressing for reciprocity in trade.

[Bugeater]

Almost all, if not all, of the U.S. auto manufacturers are living in the past. They maintain the false concept that what they make is what the American people will buy. They have abandoned any notion of giving the consumer what they want. Their pricing is controlled by the needs to service the UAW. An employee that works 30 years with GM can retire and begin drawing up to $3,600 per month [$43,200 annually] plus having full medical coverage for their family. The impact of that on the price of any vehicle is substantial. Plus the fact that most U.S. auto makers have flat out rejected the hybrid concept and are fighting the hydrogen cell development.

Should the big 3 not change their strategy soon, they will find that all of their plants are either shutdown or sold to foreign interests, you know - the guys that know how to build a car that will last for 400k miles.

That's great because when GM finally goes belly-up, us taxpayers will be footing the bill for that.

[jidar]

Ethanol as a fuel alternative is a joke.
We make Ethanol out of crop that was grown using petroleum based fertilizers, so the majority of energy stored in Ethanol is still ultimately coming from oil. Some of the energy does in fact come from the sun, but after the added costs in manufacture and processing by the agriculture industry it's a wash. We'd have been better off just processing the oil and using it the old fashioned way.
Think about it. We're taking a liquid energy source, using it to fertilize and grow crops, that we are then turning back into a liquid energy source. How does this make sense?
If anything, Ethanol is energy storage, not an actual energy source.

It gets worse.

The pump price of E85 is usually 5 to 50 cents cheaper than unleaded gaoline.

This appears to make E85 very competitive until the U.S. government ethanol subsidy and E85 efficiency are factored in. The United States subsidizes ethanol 52 cents per gallon prior to blending. Taxpayers are paying 44 cents per gallon of E85, increasing the actual price dramatically. Unfortunately E85 is 25 percent less efficient than unleaded gasoline. That means we travel a shorter distance on a galon of Ethanol than we do on a Galon of gasoline.

So now we are paying $3 for fuel with an equivalent mileage obtained from $2 of unleaded.

What the hell?

This whole ethanol thing is a freaking scam. It has the agriculture industry and environmentalists behind it and they're trying to convince us it saves money when it in fact does no such thing.

[Cochise]

I didn't realize ethanol was subsidized to that degree. That's eye-opening.

Certainly the concept is worthy of research, but why can't we dump all this subsidy money into fuel cells instead?

[bsp4444]

After looking into topic, I was also surprised by the lack of effectiveness of the subsidy to ethanol. It takes approximately 29% more energy to produce etanol than you get out of burning it. I don't know if that would change with increased technology, or economies of scale, but they've had 20 years to figure that out. I've been pro ethanol for ever, but this really opened my eyes that the government has been propping up a dead horse.