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htismaqe
02-06-2006, 07:20 AM
As an unbiased observer, I was thoroughly disgusted with the Super Bowl.

Was it the black and white commercials featuring the Lombardi Trophy? It could have been, considering the first 4 (of 7) were spots featuring individuals - Roethlisberger, Bettis, Cowher, and Polamalu. The only 3 that featured Seahawks players were "medleys" which also featured Steelers players.

Was it the bogus OPI call? Or maybe the Ben Roethlisberger TD that wasn't a TD? Or maybe it was the double-standard that was applied when assessing holding penalties?

Again, I had no interest whatsoever in who won or lost this game. But I felt from the coverage an hour before the game to the coverage of the game itself that there was no way the Steelers were gonna lose - the NFL wasn't going to let them.

It was disgusting and it makes me question the integrity of the game.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2006, 07:24 AM
I agree.

Bowser
02-06-2006, 07:27 AM
Yep.

Extra Point
02-06-2006, 07:29 AM
Players holding the Lombardi trophy.... I wonder what Lombardi would have said about that?

Apparently the NFL had no problem coughing up the bucks to produce and broadcast that junk. I would have preferred to see a replay of the commercial about rocks and see a replay of a clean-shaven Ray Adams. UHHH! :shake:

jspchief
02-06-2006, 07:32 AM
I saw the spot with Polamalu holding the Lombardi trophy and instantly thought "At the very best that's tacky, and at worst it's really bad mojo".

kepp
02-06-2006, 07:32 AM
I had that same feeling all week long as I was watching special-interest story after special-interest story about the Steelers. At one point, I heard a commentator actually ask, "Are the Seahawks even going to show up?" IMO, it was very biased.

Saulbadguy
02-06-2006, 07:34 AM
I mentioned the Stanley Cup to my friends during the commercial. Now there is a trophy that is treated with the utmost respect and care.

MOhillbilly
02-06-2006, 07:35 AM
yeah it was lame, i think what still rubs me wrong is the pathetic camera angles the NFL continues to show on tv.
How are you supposed to know whats going on when they have the QBs face in the shot till the ball is snapped?
Then they only show afew players making a play.
I wanna see the entire field of play before and after.

why cant they do that?

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 07:52 AM
I have to admit that for the first time in my life, Im a little more than suspicious about the NFL. I've always wondered about some games and the way they played out, but this SB was blatantly obvious.

The side judge ran half way to the pile signaling 4th down only to then signal TD when he got to the pile--on Roethlisberger's TD.

How in the hell can you get called for an illegal block when making a tackle?

This is one SB that Im glad KC wasnt involved in...I would be very upset today if KC had won in that fashion because, IMO, the win would be tainted.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 07:56 AM
This was a lame season...and a lame game to be the last one. My faith in the game is shaken after the Colts game and this one...I just don't think I'm going to be spending as much time following the NFL.

JBucc
02-06-2006, 07:57 AM
yeah it was lame, i think what still rubs me wrong is the pathetic camera angles the NFL continues to show on tv.
How are you supposed to know whats going on when they have the QBs face in the shot till the ball is snapped?
Then they only show afew players making a play.
I wanna see the entire field of play before and after.

why cant they do that?I think someday they could have different camera angles that you could choose from with your remote. That would be sweet with dvr, you'd have your own coach's tape basically.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 07:58 AM
the pile--on Roethlisberger's TD.

How in the hell can you get called for an illegal block when making a tackle?


It looked like he low-blocked the blocker when he actually low tackled the runner...this is the Warren Sapp rule... he actually took out the runner with his low-block...a stupid rule and even dumber interpretation.

dirk digler
02-06-2006, 08:04 AM
As an unbiased observer, I was thoroughly disgusted with the Super Bowl.

Was it the black and white commercials featuring the Lombardi Trophy? It could have been, considering the first 4 (of 7) were spots featuring individuals - Roethlisberger, Bettis, Cowher, and Polamalu. The only 3 that featured Seahawks players were "medleys" which also featured Steelers players.

Was it the bogus OPI call? Or maybe the Ben Roethlisberger TD that wasn't a TD? Or maybe it was the double-standard that was applied when assessing holding penalties?

Again, I had no interest whatsoever in who won or lost this game. But I felt from the coverage an hour before the game to the coverage of the game itself that there was no way the Steelers were gonna lose - the NFL wasn't going to let them.

It was disgusting and it makes me question the integrity of the game.

Couldn't agree more.

Frosty
02-06-2006, 08:08 AM
How about the NFL Channel's "I'm going to Disney World" commercial that featured a half dozen Steelers, with only a brief shot of Alexander for the Hawks?

cadmonkey
02-06-2006, 08:12 AM
Don't forget the commercial of everyone practicing "I'm going to Disney World" had all Steelers and only had Alexander and Hasselbeck from the Seahawks.

jspchief
02-06-2006, 08:25 AM
Don't forget the commercial of everyone practicing "I'm going to Disney World" had all Steelers and only had Alexander and Hasselbeck from the Seahawks.I imagine a lot of that had to do with the fact that no one would recognize anyone else from Seattle.

Bugeater
02-06-2006, 08:25 AM
This was a lame season...and a lame game to be the last one. My faith in the game is shaken after the Colts game and this one...I just don't think I'm going to be spending as much time following the NFL.

I'm not there...yet. Between the questionable officiating as of late, the bullshit exclusive contract with DTV for the Sunday Ticket, a developing labor dispute and the possibility of the elimination of the salary cap, the NFL is well on it's way to alienating a lot of fans. Just keep on choking the golden goose, guys, it will die eventually.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 08:32 AM
How about the NFL Channel's "I'm going to Disney World" commercial that featured a half dozen Steelers, with only a brief shot of Alexander for the Hawks?

Hasselbach was in there as well.

kpic
02-06-2006, 08:42 AM
The PI that people are debating I have seen those called and not called so I donít have a problem with that. I came away from viewing the game with a few issues: the continuous offsides, kudos to Pittsburgh as I would continue to push it until they called it as well. I just have never seen one team get away with it so many times, usually they try it once or twice and the officials put an end to that. It was very clear that the DE was in the neutral zone on more than a few occasions.

To the officials on the Big Ben TD: DO NOT CALL A TD UNLESS YOU ARE SURE IT WAS ONE! if you cannot see it clearly and call a TD that means it most likely will not be reversed, so you play it conservative, make the team earn the TD. If I as a fan can get this why canít an official?

I understand that during the regular season you get calls for you and against you, It just seems that to me the bigger the game (IE: Playoffs & Superbowl) the officials are supposed to be less involved. I canít remember if I just made that up on my own or if that was the way it actually used to be. I have visions of the Superbowl of 2010 where the players will all have their own music video accompany them on the screen anytime they make a play, the coach will have his own diva and at halftime the divas will fight each other on the 50 yd line (actually that does not sound that bad) etc. etc. I am reminded of President Skroob in Spaceballs ďmerchandising!Ē

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-06-2006, 08:48 AM
At least the media kept its stories on Jerome Bettis' homecoming low key and tasteful.

Did you know that he has nimble feet and asthma?

jspchief
02-06-2006, 08:50 AM
Hasselbach was in there as well.I'm pretty sure Lofa Tatupu was too.

Mr. Kotter
02-06-2006, 08:51 AM
I agree with Parker completely. And Whitlock wasn't far off base in his article either. It was pathetic on many fronts.

Cochise
02-06-2006, 08:52 AM
This is one SB that Im glad KC wasnt involved in...I would be very upset today if KC had won in that fashion because, IMO, the win would be tainted.

Same here - I cannot imagine waiting my whole life to see the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, and then as the clock expired not being able to think anything other than how it was tainted.

Mr. Kotter
02-06-2006, 08:55 AM
Same here - I cannot imagine waiting my whole life to see the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, and then as the clock expired not being able to think anything other than how it was tainted.

Any honest Pittsburg fan has to feel the same way. :shake:

chiefs4me
02-06-2006, 08:58 AM
I mentioned the Stanley Cup to my friends during the commercial. Now there is a trophy that is treated with the utmost respect and care.








:clap:

Mr. Laz
02-06-2006, 09:58 AM
i really didn't think the calls were all that "bias"

1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.

2. pass interference calls are screwy all the time any way. Gonzo has been called for that very thing serveral times. I didn't like it against Gonzo and i didn't like in the super bowl ... but it's called sometimes. Hardly a sign of some kind of game rigging. As for the ref not calling the OPI immediately .... if you watch it again, you will see that he made 2 grabs at his flag, BEFORE the defensive player screamed for the OPI, and he missed the grab. The call was only delayed because he couldn't grab his flag.



i'm not saying these call were good or bad ... just that these same calls go on during the season all the time.


But this urban myth that somehow the NFL rigged the Super Bowl is just that .... a myth.

morphius
02-06-2006, 10:11 AM
I have to admit that for the first time in my life, Im a little more than suspicious about the NFL. I've always wondered about some games and the way they played out, but this SB was blatantly obvious.

The side judge ran half way to the pile signaling 4th down only to then signal TD when he got to the pile--on Roethlisberger's TD.

How in the hell can you get called for an illegal block when making a tackle?

This is one SB that Im glad KC wasnt involved in...I would be very upset today if KC had won in that fashion because, IMO, the win would be tainted.
4th down signal is a fist, not a hand up in the air, and TD was the right call.

Mr. Kotter
02-06-2006, 10:16 AM
i really didn't think the calls were all that "bias"

1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.

2. pass interference calls are screwy all the time any way. Gonzo has been called for that very thing serveral times. I didn't like it against Gonzo and i didn't like in the super bowl ... but it's called sometimes. Hardly a sign of some kind of game rigging. As for the ref not calling the OPI immediately .... if you watch it again, you will see that he made 2 grabs at his flag, BEFORE the defensive player screamed for the OPI, and he missed the grab. The call was only delayed because he couldn't grab his flag.



i'm not saying these call were good or bad ... just that these same calls go on during the season all the time.


But this urban myth that somehow the NFL rigged the Super Bowl is just that .... a myth.

I agree that Ben's TD, and the OPI were close.....but...

It's the holding call on the Seattle RT that sticks in my craw....and, as I said, I was pulling for Pittsburg. On the replay, it was not at all close. If you are going to call those, you'd have holding on every stinkin' play. Certainly not the type of call to make in a spot like that....

The illegal block by Hasselback was completely bogus. If that's, technically, the right call it's still bogus. It's like the tuck rule, and needs to be fixed if that's how it's "supposed" to be called.

That call led to a 14 pt swing in the game.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 10:19 AM
i really didn't think the calls were all that "bias"

1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.

2. pass interference calls are screwy all the time any way. Gonzo has been called for that very thing serveral times. I didn't like it against Gonzo and i didn't like in the super bowl ... but it's called sometimes. Hardly a sign of some kind of game rigging. As for the ref not calling the OPI immediately .... if you watch it again, you will see that he made 2 grabs at his flag, BEFORE the defensive player screamed for the OPI, and he missed the grab. The call was only delayed because he couldn't grab his flag.



i'm not saying these call were good or bad ... just that these same calls go on during the season all the time.


But this urban myth that somehow the NFL rigged the Super Bowl is just that .... a myth.

OK, even if you throw out the TD or the PI call...how about the holding calls that were repeatedly assessed to Seattle even when the EXACT SAME MOVE (horse collar) wasn't called on Pittsburgh? Or how about the fact that Pittsburgh was REPEATEDLY allowed to jump offside on defense?

I'm not saying that the game was rigged, I'm not a tinfoil hat kinda guy. But the simple fact that the officiating (combined with the coverage and the commercials) made me, an unbiased observer, and so many others question the integrity of the game -- that's not good.

Mr. Laz
02-06-2006, 10:21 AM
I agree that Ben's TD, and the OPI were close.....but...

It's the holding call on the Seattle RT that sticks in my craw....and, as I said, I was pulling for Pittsburg. On the replay, it was not at all close. If you are going to call those, you'd have holding on every stinkin' play. Certainly not the type of call to make in a spot like that....

That call led to a 14 pt swing in the game.
i understand and even agree ... but they make crap calls like that all year.

jared Allen got tackled during a pass rush on a game winning touchdown pass this year. (i forget the exact game)




I'm just saying that bad officiating ≠ crooked officiating

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 10:31 AM
4th down signal is a fist, not a hand up in the air, and TD was the right call.

I was shorthanding...a hand in the air means he was going to spot the ball short of the line--and as such would have been 4th down and short. After the ball is spotted, it would have been signaled 4th down by the ref not the side judge.

Whether or not the TD was the right call is debateable... especially if the side judge couldnt make up his mind.

I didnt see anything in the replay that showed the ball go over the plane--when he landed the ball was under his stomach and it looked like when he got close the ball was moving away from his shoulders and down his torso. How the side judge was able to intially call it short and change to TD is what made the call strange.

BigRock
02-06-2006, 10:36 AM
Speaking of the WWE, did anyone see the match a few years ago where Stone Cold Steve Austin fought The Rock at Wrestlemania? It was at the Astrodome in front of like 80,000 people... probably the biggest match ever between the two biggest wrestling stars ever, not counting Hulk Hogan.

They were both "good guys" fighting for the world title. And Stone Cold won the match... but only after he turned bad and joined up with Vince McMahon, who helped him beat The Rock and win the title.

It was the outcome most people wanted to see, but they couldn't really enjoy it because of the way it went down. That's exactly how I felt about the Steelers' win last night.

kpic
02-06-2006, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=Laz]

1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.

QUOTE]

That was my earlier point, not only this game but in every game (last night was just on a bigger scale) I would like the officials to remain conservative in their call of a TD if they are not 100% certain. The way it turns out last night is that the replay was unable to confirm or deny the cal on the fieldl by the official thus they had no choice but to not overturn.

cadmonkey
02-06-2006, 10:42 AM
I imagine a lot of that had to do with the fact that no one would recognize anyone else from Seattle.


thats really not the point

morphius
02-06-2006, 10:43 AM
I was shorthanding...a hand in the air means he was going to spot the ball short of the line--and as such would have been 4th down and short. After the ball is spotted, it would have been signaled 4th down by the ref not the side judge.

Whether or not the TD was the right call is debateable... especially if the side judge couldnt make up his mind.

I didnt see anything in the replay that showed the ball go over the plane--when he landed the ball was under his stomach and it looked like when he got close the ball was moving away from his shoulders and down his torso. How the side judge was able to intially call it short and change to TD is what made the call strange.
The way I saw it was that right before he was hit the nose of the ball was over the line, probably about a centimeter, and then he was knocked back.

There was absolutly no question with the group of people that I was with that they all said, "easy call, its a TD", and none were really rooting for either team.

jspchief
02-06-2006, 10:44 AM
thats really not the pointWith celebrity endorsements, it's pretty much exactly the point.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 10:48 AM
The way I saw it was that right before he was hit the nose of the ball was over the line, probably about a centimeter, and then he was knocked back.

There was absolutly no question with the group of people that I was with that they all said, "easy call, its a TD", and none were really rooting for either team.

The ball never got above the top of the 7 on his jersey. If you watch just the ball and not him, it never touched the line.

morphius
02-06-2006, 10:50 AM
The ball never got above the top of the 7 on his jersey. If you watch just the ball and not him, it never touched the line.
I watched the ball, and not him, it was obvious that it was over.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 10:52 AM
I watched the ball, and not him, it was obvious that it was over.

I had 6 people with me and we must have DVR'd the live play 50 times. Not one of us thought the ball crossed the plane. 2 of them were die-hard Steeler fans and they even said they got a gift.

jspchief
02-06-2006, 10:53 AM
I watched the ball, and not him, it was obvious that it was over.I don't think it was obvious that it was anything. I think it was a tough call that could have gone either way in real time speed. And I don't believe there was enough slow mo video to change the original call whichever way they would have called it.

Personally, I don't consider that one of the bigger calls of the game, regardless of which way it went. There was plenty of other bad officiating.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't think it was obvious that it was anything. I think it was a tough call that could have gone either way in real time speed. And I don't believe there was enough slow mo video to change the original call whichever way they would have called it.

Personally, I don't consider that one of the bigger calls of the game, regardless of which way it went. There was plenty of other bad officiating.

I agree on both counts.

The holding calls were much worse.

Cochise
02-06-2006, 10:57 AM
I don't think it was obvious that it was anything. I think it was a tough call that could have gone either way in real time speed. And I don't believe there was enough slow mo video to change the original call whichever way they would have called it.

Personally, I don't consider that one of the bigger calls of the game, regardless of which way it went. There was plenty of other bad officiating.

It wasn't the biggest call of the game. And it was a tough call to make. That one play doesn't make things look shady - what makes the game look shady is ALL the marginal calls going in one team's favor.

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 10:58 AM
I don't think it was obvious that it was anything. I think it was a tough call that could have gone either way in real time speed. And I don't believe there was enough slow mo video to change the original call whichever way they would have called it.

Personally, I don't consider that one of the bigger calls of the game, regardless of which way it went. There was plenty of other bad officiating.

I agree with this. The replay was not conclusive to overturn a call on the field either way.

Even had they ruled it short, Im pretty confident that the Steelers punch the ball in on 4th down.

What I found odd about the call was the initial actions of the side judge were to rule it short. It was only after he got to the pile that he changed his mind. Ive seen side judges run into the pile and then make a call, but that wasnt the case here, he clearly was signaling short and then changed it to TD.

Mr. Laz
02-06-2006, 11:01 AM
1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.



That was my earlier point, not only this game but in every game (last night was just on a bigger scale) I would like the officials to remain conservative in their call of a TD if they are not 100% certain. The way it turns out last night is that the replay was unable to confirm or deny the cal on the fieldl by the official thus they had no choice but to not overturn.
yep ... but the theory of this thread was "corrupt officiating" not bad officiating or just plain poorly structured league rules.


i think the league needs to review and rewrite the the rules to be more precise about what is to be done.

pass interference is a prime example ... the league wanted to increase scoring so they tried to manipulate the game by changing the enforcement of the rules.


It has caused problems.


They probably need to have different severities of PI and clearly defined rules about what makes each level of PI what it is.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 11:05 AM
well...that make two people that think it was a TD...anyone else?

Hydrae
02-06-2006, 11:06 AM
While you are discussing blown calls, how about the incomplete pass/fumble early in the game? I don't remember, I think it was Stevens caught the ball, started to turn and got hit which caused the ball to fly out. They ruled it incomplete but there is no way. They have to let that play run to a conclusion then go back and review it. Seattle got the lucky call that time.

I was upset with the PI but after looking at it more colsely I am ok with it. Watch the defenders feet when Jackson pushes off. It looks like Jackson barelyl touches him but it causes his feet to go backwards.

As to the touchdown call, my first comment when they went to review it was, "Get out the micrometer." I also agree with Titus, the ref coming in from the side was signalling him down halfway to the play then suddenly, after the play was well done, signalled the TD. Way late call.

morphius
02-06-2006, 11:17 AM
I had 6 people with me and we must have DVR'd the live play 50 times. Not one of us thought the ball crossed the plane. 2 of them were die-hard Steeler fans and they even said they got a gift.
Was the DVR in HD? I'm just wondering, because from the HD TV I was watching you could see the nose of the ball just above his wrist band and it went over by the smallest of margins, but was over.

I also thought the push off call was the right call as well, it pisses me off when WR's get away with that crap.

The holding on the punt return was an okay call as well, since he did pull the top of his sleeve to the outside and over his pads on the line of scrimmage, it could have been not called and I would be okay because it really didn't seem to hinder the guy.

The holding on the OT that negated the Stevens catch on the 1 was complete BS as was the call that illegal tackle on Hasselback for 15 yards. Though I think the holding call was by far the biggest bad call in the game.

morphius
02-06-2006, 11:19 AM
While you are discussing blown calls, how about the incomplete pass/fumble early in the game? I don't remember, I think it was Stevens caught the ball, started to turn and got hit which caused the ball to fly out. They ruled it incomplete but there is no way. They have to let that play run to a conclusion then go back and review it. Seattle got the lucky call that time.

I forgot all about that play, and the only people there to recover that puppy. The guy had taken 3 full steps and was turning when he lost that one. That was a blown call in the favor of the Seahawks.

phxchief
02-06-2006, 11:53 AM
Damn East coast bias. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Reaper16
02-06-2006, 11:58 AM
well...that make two people that think it was a TD...anyone else?
I think the call should have stood due to lack of conclusive evidence. The ball looks to be over the plane before the Seattle defender collided with Ben. Then, it's very close. My gut tells me he didn't make it, but I don't think the refs could have overturned it.

HC_Chief
02-06-2006, 12:02 PM
The ref signaled 4th down, then changed his call a tad late for my tastes (I would've been uber irate if I were a Seahag fan). Of course that's his perogative.

The replay was inconclusive, so no overturn. They got that much right. (it's about the ONLY call they got right in the entire game)

Coogs
02-06-2006, 12:02 PM
well...that make two people that think it was a TD...anyone else?

I thought the nose of the ball broke the plane. Not by much, but I thought it got there.

Mr. Laz
02-06-2006, 12:07 PM
a crappy picture ...

but white line is "plane" of endzone

redlines are front and back of football imo


http://img439.exs.cx/img439/6035/picture036aaz7oi.jpg

morphius
02-06-2006, 12:09 PM
Laz - I think that picture is just a fraction of a second late, because the D player has already made contact with him. Or is that white blur his hand going backwards?

Mr. Laz
02-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Laz - I think that picture is just a fraction of a second late, because the D player has already made contact with him. Or is that white blur his hand going backwards?

that's his hand ... the ball hasn't gone backwards yet.


he's holding the ball in his right (far side) hand


you can see the white stripe of the ball in the crook of his elbow

Pitt Gorilla
02-06-2006, 12:17 PM
i really didn't think the calls were all that "bias"

1. Roethlisburger DID seem to break the plane ... the ball only has to touch the front of the white line. it was definately too close to overturn on replay.

2. pass interference calls are screwy all the time any way. Gonzo has been called for that very thing serveral times. I didn't like it against Gonzo and i didn't like in the super bowl ... but it's called sometimes. Hardly a sign of some kind of game rigging. As for the ref not calling the OPI immediately .... if you watch it again, you will see that he made 2 grabs at his flag, BEFORE the defensive player screamed for the OPI, and he missed the grab. The call was only delayed because he couldn't grab his flag.



i'm not saying these call were good or bad ... just that these same calls go on during the season all the time.


But this urban myth that somehow the NFL rigged the Super Bowl is just that .... a myth.
I agree. I thought the PI call was bad at the time, but I've seen stuff like that called quite a bit. The TD was a TD; there was never any question in my mind. Now, the Hasselbeck penalty was just crazy.

Pitt Gorilla
02-06-2006, 12:19 PM
I forgot all about that play, and the only people there to recover that puppy. The guy had taken 3 full steps and was turning when he lost that one. That was a blown call in the favor of the Seahawks.No, it was a conspiracy AGAINST the Seahawks. This could not have happened.

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 12:48 PM
No, it was a conspiracy AGAINST the Seahawks. This could not have happened.

Im not about to call 'consipracy or 'corrupt' with regard to the NFL. The WWE is scripted, but hardly 'corrupt' or a 'conspiracy' -- unless that conspiracy is to make money from rubes who dont know that it's scripted.

I do think there was a bias in favor of the Steelers, however. There were bad calls all around, but the timing and type of calls and the way they were made on the Seahawks just seemed odd and at times convenient. This 'preferred team' bias permeates officiating. Witness the Polamalu interception overturned after replay...at that point the Colts were the preferred team.

Over the course of a season, teams get a reputation and calls go against that team moreso than the 'good' teams. Oakland has long held this reputation, and KC had it for several years after the 1998 season and 'meltdown'. It's been like this for a long time, but this is the first time it appeared in the Superbowl.

The NFL has an officiating problem. Im confident we all could agree on that. It displayed itself on the games biggest stage. Lets hope that it gets addressed soon.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 12:54 PM
I thought the nose of the ball broke the plane. Not by much, but I thought it got there.

Not before his knee was down...and that's the key.

Stinger
02-06-2006, 12:55 PM
I mentioned the Stanley Cup to my friends during the commercial. Now there is a trophy that is treated with the utmost respect and care.

You mean when players are taking it to strip clubs, bars, and doing other stuff with it that we can't mention when they have their one day with the cup? ROFL ROFL

Swanman
02-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Was the DVR in HD? I'm just wondering, because from the HD TV I was watching you could see the nose of the ball just above his wrist band and it went over by the smallest of margins, but was over.

I also thought the push off call was the right call as well, it pisses me off when WR's get away with that crap.

The holding on the punt return was an okay call as well, since he did pull the top of his sleeve to the outside and over his pads on the line of scrimmage, it could have been not called and I would be okay because it really didn't seem to hinder the guy.

The holding on the OT that negated the Stevens catch on the 1 was complete BS as was the call that illegal tackle on Hasselback for 15 yards. Though I think the holding call was by far the biggest bad call in the game.

I was watching the game in HD, and assuming his knee wasn't down already, it looked like the very tip of the ball crossed into the white by no more than half an inch.

About the Stevens play, in the couple replays I saw, it didn't seem like his second foot had come down when he was turning to run upfield, thus incomplete pass.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 12:58 PM
When you consider that the ref called it down..and as he got closer he called it a TD..proves that he didn't see shit and to call it a TD when he didn't see it is a joke. Which is what the NFL is today...a joke.

morphius
02-06-2006, 01:03 PM
When you consider that the ref called it down..and as he got closer he called it a TD..proves that he didn't see shit and to call it a TD when he didn't see it is a joke. Which is what the NFL is today...a joke.
It doesn't "prove" anything 99.9% of the plays the guy does he runs in with one hand up to mark the ball, so I guess it may prove that his reflexes are a bit slow, but other then that, it doesn't prove anything other then humans form habbits.

morphius
02-06-2006, 01:04 PM
I was watching the game in HD, and assuming his knee wasn't down already, it looked like the very tip of the ball crossed into the white by no more than half an inch.

Now I'm interested to see what it looked like in non-HD to see if that may be some of the reasons for the way that people saw it.

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 01:06 PM
It doesn't "prove" anything 99.9% of the plays the guy does he runs in with one hand up to mark the ball, so I guess it may prove that his reflexes are a bit slow, but other then that, it doesn't prove anything other then humans form habbits.

I guess that's possible, however, I have never seen a side judge do that prior to this game. That wasnt a reflex problem, he clearly changed his mind.

Coogs
02-06-2006, 01:07 PM
Not before his knee was down...and that's the key.

I saw it the way Swannman saw it.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2006, 01:08 PM
It doesn't "prove" anything 99.9% of the plays the guy does he runs in with one hand up to mark the ball, so I guess it may prove that his reflexes are a bit slow, but other then that, it doesn't prove anything other then humans form habbits.

It proves he thought the ball was down at the one inch line.

btw...87.2378 percent of all statistics are made up on the sopt.

morphius
02-06-2006, 01:12 PM
I guess that's possible, however, I have never seen a side judge do that prior to this game. That wasnt a reflex problem, he clearly changed his mind.
I've seen them do all kinds of weird crap like that over they years, its just that you don't remember it because it is normally not in the SB and almost never that close.

morphius
02-06-2006, 01:14 PM
I saw it the way Swannman saw it.
I think he is counting it from when he was laying on his belly and pushed it over a second time, which of course he was down then, the TD happened right when the D made contact and he immediatly went backwards.

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 01:18 PM
I've seen them do all kinds of weird crap like that over they years, its just that you don't remember it because it is normally not in the SB and almost never that close.

I guess it's possible, but Im pretty sure I would remember something like that. Especially if it was in a KC game. Ive seen other close calls like that and for the most part both side judges run in without signaling.

Frankly, I dont like that either because they dont know and really theres no way to tell and after pulling guys off the pile and seconds pass, then they rule a TD or spot it short.

Coogs
02-06-2006, 01:21 PM
the TD happened right when the D made contact and he immediatly went backwards.

:thumb:

tk13
02-06-2006, 01:37 PM
I thought the key sequence was late in the game there... that big holding call. Seahawks had switched momentum and were ready to take the lead in the 4th quarter.

1) Hasselbeck completes a pass inside the 10, called back due to a questionable holding call, not to mention some people believe the Steelers were offside on that play, IIRC.. I'd have to see it again.

2) So they come back out, Alexander has a nice run to the left side, might have been horse collared. No call. Would've put them right in scoring position again. I don't mind that because it can be kind of a ticky-tack personal foul call, but...

3) Hasselbeck throws the INT, on the return gets called for an illegal block while tackling the defender, which was probably the worst call of the entire game. It puts the Steelers near midfield, where they can pull out their gadget plays, and they do and score to put the game away.

That was just a brutal stretch for the Seahawks, there were literally 4 or 5 different things that could've changed the game and they all went against them.

Pitt Gorilla
02-06-2006, 02:10 PM
I guess that's possible, however, I have never seen a side judge do that prior to this game. That wasnt a reflex problem, he clearly changed his mind.Happens all the time in basketball. Officials seem to "reflect" and try to make the right call, not the immediate call.

Rudy lost the toss
02-06-2006, 02:18 PM
Speaking of the WWE, did anyone see the match a few years ago where Stone Cold Steve Austin fought The Rock at Wrestlemania? It was at the Astrodome in front of like 80,000 people... probably the biggest match ever between the two biggest wrestling stars ever, not counting Hulk Hogan.

They were both "good guys" fighting for the world title. And Stone Cold won the match... but only after he turned bad and joined up with Vince McMahon, who helped him beat The Rock and win the title.

It was the outcome most people wanted to see, but they couldn't really enjoy it because of the way it went down. That's exactly how I felt about the Steelers' win last night.
yeah, i was there :redface:

KCTitus
02-06-2006, 02:20 PM
Happens all the time in basketball. Officials seem to "reflect" and try to make the right call, not the immediate call.

I wasnt talking about basketball. The NBA is a friggen joke--their officiating is overtly biased.

ChiefsCountry
02-06-2006, 02:36 PM
I knew Super Bowls were rigged after the Rams/Patriots one. Some Rams players got payed off big for that one, I'm sure of it.

tk13
02-06-2006, 02:42 PM
I knew Super Bowls were rigged after the Rams/Patriots one. Some Rams players got payed off big for that one, I'm sure of it.
The only time something like that has even crept into my mind was the last time the Steelers were in the Super Bowl. Those Neil O'Donnell INT's to Larry Brown... I mean, they weren't just horrible throws, they were atrocious... right to him, not even near a WR. They showed clips of those things again this year since Pittsburgh was back in it, and I still just shake my head. I have no idea what O'Donnell was doing on that day...

Immaculate
02-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Neither.

UFC>Both.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Neither.

UFC>Both.

ROFL

Immaculate
02-06-2006, 03:37 PM
At least WWE, That shit is terrible.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 03:40 PM
At least WWE, That shit is terrible.

So was yesterday's game. :D

Immaculate
02-06-2006, 03:48 PM
So was yesterday's game. :D
True.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 05:13 PM
As an unbiased observer, I was thoroughly disgusted with the Super Bowl.

Was it the black and white commercials featuring the Lombardi Trophy? It could have been, considering the first 4 (of 7) were spots featuring individuals - Roethlisberger, Bettis, Cowher, and Polamalu. The only 3 that featured Seahawks players were "medleys" which also featured Steelers players.

Was it the bogus OPI call? Or maybe the Ben Roethlisberger TD that wasn't a TD? Or maybe it was the double-standard that was applied when assessing holding penalties?

Again, I had no interest whatsoever in who won or lost this game. But I felt from the coverage an hour before the game to the coverage of the game itself that there was no way the Steelers were gonna lose - the NFL wasn't going to let them.

It was disgusting and it makes me question the integrity of the game.

Yup, the conspiracy was so deep and insured that even Matt Hasselback and Jerramy Stevens were in on it with their horrid decisions to throw the ball to the other team and deliberately drop even pass that fell directly into their open arms.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 05:39 PM
Yup, the conspiracy was so deep and insured that even Matt Hasselback and Jerramy Stevens were in on it with their horrid decisions to throw the ball to the other team and deliberately drop even pass that fell directly into their open arms.

Come on, Russ.

There's no conspiracy theory.

I was just pointing out the fact that it made people THINK about conspiracies.

It takes the fun out of football.

Of course, being a Chiefs fan takes the fun out of football, too.

Nzoner
02-06-2006, 06:12 PM
It was disgusting and it makes me question the integrity of the game.

They fixed the 1919 World Series,to think that our world has gotten any less corrupt than then is ridiculous.

I've plugged a book on here many times called Interference that believe its content or not I think every football fan should read.

I don't go as far to think every game is fixed by any means but I do question the integrity of more than a few games I've seen over the years.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 06:19 PM
Come on, Russ.

There's no conspiracy theory.

I was just pointing out the fact that it made people THINK about conspiracies.

It takes the fun out of football.

Of course, being a Chiefs fan takes the fun out of football, too.
No doubt on both counts.

But any outcome with bad calls would have been called a conspiracy, no matter which teams were playing and which teams won.

I was assured by several people a month ago that the SB was a foregone conclusion because Manning winning would insure strength and stability for the NFL for years to come.

Ari Chi3fs
02-06-2006, 06:22 PM
wow. kCwolfman comes back the day AFTER the NFL football season completes...

welcome back offseason guy.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 06:24 PM
wow. kCwolfman comes back the day AFTER the NFL football season completes...

welcome back offseason guy.
Actually, I have posted several times over the last few months.

I guess I should have been posting more during my brother's illness and eventual death to appease dumbasses like yourself instead of caring for my family.

htismaqe
02-06-2006, 06:27 PM
They fixed the 1919 World Series,to think that our world has gotten any less corrupt than then is ridiculous.

I've plugged a book on here many times called Interference that believe its content or not I think every football fan should read.

I don't go as far to think every game is fixed by any means but I do question the integrity of more than a few games I've seen over the years.

I remember the days after the 1986 Rose Bowl, when Iowa got beat by UCLA.

I remember Ronnie Harmon fumbling 4 (or was it 5) times in a single bowl game after touching the ball 300+ times straight without a fumble.

I remember being told it was "sour grapes" and that I was a "sore loser". I remember those names continuing even when Harmon was seen in brand new cars and sporting a fur coat.

And I sure as hell remember the episode of "Real Sports with Bryant Gumble" where they talked about the connection between college football and organized crime, primarily because I VIVIDLY remember the photographs they showed of cashiers checks made out to Harmon's father.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 06:28 PM
I remember the days after the 1986 Rose Bowl, when Iowa got beat by UCLA.

I remember Ronnie Harmon fumbling 4 (or was it 5) times in a single bowl game after touching the ball 300+ times straight without a fumble.

I remember being told it was "sour grapes" and that I was a "sore loser". I remember those names continuing even when Harmon was seen in brand new cars and sporting a fur coat.

And I sure as hell remember the episode of Real Sports in Bryant Gumble where they talked about the connection between college football and organized crime, primarily because I VIVIDLY remember the photographs they showed of cashiers checks made out to Harmon's father.
Actually, if I were in charge of throwing a game for profit, I would bribe the officials (as it has been suggested with this SB several times). Players can change heart and have little individual outcome with an entire game, officials can break a game with a single phantom holding call.

keg in kc
02-06-2006, 06:45 PM
I thought it was a boring game, I thought it was a bad game. But I don't think it was fixed.

Seahawks had every opportunity to be in or even win the game. I think Stone-hands Stevens hurt them more than the officiating.

Frazod
02-06-2006, 06:58 PM
I absolutely think the officials did everything in their power to sway this game. Sometimes a team is good enough to overcome official tweaking AND the competition - sometimes it isn't. But the minute the league realized that St. Manning wasn't going on to the Promised Land (despite their best efforts), the media darling became Fat Ass with the Last-Game-In-His-Home-Town angle. After all, this is ENTERTAINMENT, right?

I wonder how this game would have played out had it been called cleanly. I think it would have been a good one.

I also wonder how things might have played out had the refs not jobbed us in Dallas the same way the did Seattle yesterday.

Welcome to the WWNFL. . :shake:

chiefs4me
02-06-2006, 07:21 PM
Actually, I have posted several times over the last few months.

I guess I should have been posting more during my brother's illness and eventual death to appease dumbasses like yourself instead of caring for my family.





Oh my god.....I'm sorry

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 07:26 PM
Oh my god.....I'm sorry
Me, too. I miss the stupid little bugger and am really worried about his kids.

tk13
02-06-2006, 07:39 PM
They fixed the 1919 World Series,to think that our world has gotten any less corrupt than then is ridiculous.

I've plugged a book on here many times called Interference that believe its content or not I think every football fan should read.

I don't go as far to think every game is fixed by any means but I do question the integrity of more than a few games I've seen over the years.
I wouldn't doubt it one bit. We're talking about hired gun athletes that have no loyalty to anything but dollar signs, and a world of college athletes who don't make nearly as much money as they bring into their school. There are a billion reasons in the world for games to be fixed. I don't think there's some kinda leaguewide conspiracy but I'm sure there's been some games in both college and the pros that have been less than clean...

It's easy for people to get carried away though. Heck, after watching our last playoff game, we saw all kinds of crap that never happened... Priest fumbled, Morten missed a chipshot FG for the first time all year, Morton had the worse case of the drops ever... and on and on and on.

morphius
02-06-2006, 09:26 PM
Russ - Glad to see you back, wish things were going better for you. Sorry man.

Mr. Kotter
02-06-2006, 09:43 PM
Actually, I have posted several times over the last few months.

I guess I should have been posting more during my brother's illness and eventual death to appease dumbasses like yourself instead of caring for my family.

Sorry to hear about it, Russ. Life sometimes deals us a shitty card or two....or three. :(

Nzoner
02-06-2006, 09:45 PM
I thought it was a boring game, I thought it was a bad game.

Well I'd like to say thanks again for making the trek up for the Super Bowl party,hope you enjoyed the food and atmosphere,it was good to see you and say hey again.

Nzoner
02-06-2006, 09:46 PM
Russ - Glad to see you back, wish things were going better for you. Sorry man.

Same from me Russ,take care.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 09:53 PM
Russ - Glad to see you back, wish things were going better for you. Sorry man.
Jeff,

Actually things aren't bad for me, unfortunately, they are for my family and close friends.

I think sometimes it hurts more not being able to change the situation of someone you love than going through shit yourself.

Anyway, thanks for the condolensces.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 09:53 PM
Same from me Russ,take care.
Joe,

Yeah, I got your message a little too late as I flew back last night.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Skip Towne
02-06-2006, 10:01 PM
I enjoyed the game. And I noted in the game thread that it was close and entertaining. Yes, I saw some bad calls like I do every game. Then I bought a copy of the Tulsa World and opened it to the sports pages. I saw where OU players thought they were jobbed because of a non call on a missed foul at the buzzer. Nevermind OU blew a 15 point lead during the final 6 minutes of the game. Yeah, the damn refs. I'm so sick of that excuse. Beat the other team convincingly and don't allow the refs a chance to job you. And just S_T_F_U about the refs.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 10:04 PM
I enjoyed the game. And I noted in the game thread that it was close and entertaining. Yes, I saw some bad calls like I do every game. Then I bought a copy of the Tulsa World and opened it to the sports pages. I saw where OU players thought they were jobbed because of a non call on a missed foul at the buzzer. Nevermind OU blew a 15 point lead during the final 6 minutes of the game. Yeah, the damn refs. I'm so sick of that excuse. Beat the other team convincingly and don't allow the refs a chance to job you. And just S_T_F_U about the refs.
Pretty much exactly how I feel about it, too. Good post.

I had no horse in the race last night, so I didn't care who won. I like that Cowher was affiliated with us and I like that SEA was the only team I could stomach that was in our division - either one winning would have been alright with me. Perhaps that is why the officiating didn't bother me.

Demonpenz
02-06-2006, 11:19 PM
Any Stealer fans can borrow my line of "JACK CLARK CATCH THE BALL' and change it to "STEVENS CATCH THE BALL"

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 11:22 PM
Any Stealer fans can borrow my line of "JACK CLARK CATCH THE BALL' and change it to "STEVENS CATCH THE BALL"
That, IMO, was the major reason SEA didn't stand a chance.

Hasselback had more Incomplete Passes last night than Roethlisberger threw total attempts. And many of those were very catchable balls.

|Zach|
02-06-2006, 11:24 PM
If Seattle would have acted like they knew how to play the game of football at the end of each half it would have been an interesting game.

Demonpenz
02-06-2006, 11:25 PM
It reminds me much any other crappy games. I don't think the officials made that SS sleep through films on the reverse pass.

Demonpenz
02-06-2006, 11:26 PM
People are just frustrated because they put so much hype into the final game when the game sucks they have to blame someone. Thats what I think it is. I had more fun bitching about the refs than watching the game.

|Zach|
02-06-2006, 11:28 PM
People are just frustrated because they put so much hype into the final game when the game sucks they have to blame someone. Thats what I think it is. I had more fun bitching about the refs than watching the game.
I don't think there are many games that even can live up the hype...

A great football game can seem very average with the superbowl jazz around it.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 11:28 PM
It reminds me much any other crappy games. I don't think the officials made that SS sleep through films on the reverse pass.
I don't think they were involved in a 28 yard run in which a RB runs right up the middle and doesn't get touched by a single player either.

Demonpenz
02-06-2006, 11:30 PM
good to have you back kcwolfman. Always like to see you take destroy people on issues, even if it is me.

|Zach|
02-06-2006, 11:33 PM
Always like to see you take destroy people on issues, even if it is me.
ROFL

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 11:34 PM
I don't think there are many games that even can live up the hype...

A great football game can seem very average with the superbowl jazz around it.
Yup, you get the expectation that Johnny Unitas is passing to Jerry Rice with Barry Sanders at RB and Mean Joe Greene is just waiting to take the field after they score.

Then you realize that those players and their caliber of play are never on the field at the same time. Instead you get Trent Dilfer, Michael Pittman, and Danion Sidney.

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 11:34 PM
ROFL
What?

BTW - Thanks DP.

|Zach|
02-06-2006, 11:35 PM
Yup, you get the expectation that Johnny Unitas is passing to Jerry Rice with Barry Sanders at RB and Mean Joe Greene is just waiting to take the field after they score.

Then you realize that those players and their caliber of play are never on the field at the same time. Instead you get Trent Dilfer, Michael Pittman, and Danion Sidney.
More so I think even if you have an amazing game with elite players making amazing place or amazing situations...most people will shrug it off. I literally believe that there isnt a case where most football fans would think of a Superbowl as really good without their teams being in it these days.

|Zach|
02-06-2006, 11:35 PM
What?

BTW - Thanks DP.
I got a kick out of the "even if it is me" part.

tk13
02-06-2006, 11:37 PM
I don't know, I'm in the middle on this stuff. Seems like a lot of people blame the officials for everything from the game to assasinating JFK, while the opposition just sits back and doesn't give a care and acts like everybody else is crazy. I think the Seahawks shot themselves in the foot enough times, they cost themselves the game, no doubt about it.

However, I don't like the passive attitude that what the officials do is what the officials do and you should just lay back there and take it. I think there was some pretty poor officiating in this playoffs that completely changed the course of games, I don't think you can sit back and throw your hands up and say "oh well". There are things that can be done to improve the officiating, looking into it would not really be such a crime. Poor officiating ends up becoming a huge credibility problem and you end up looking like the NBA. Stuff like the blocking call on Hasselbeck, the Polamalu dropped-INT a couple weeks ago, that stuff should not happen, not with replay. You can sit here and say the Seahawks should've done this and this, well the officials should've made those calls correctly, especially at the highest levels like this. The difference is that the Seahawks are going to get right back to work to fix those problems they had yesterday... while officiating goes on unmonitored, I don't think it's so bad to try and make every aspect of the game better...

KCWolfman
02-06-2006, 11:38 PM
More so I think even if you have an amazing game with elite players making amazing place or amazing situations...most people will shrug it off. I literally believe that there isnt a case where most football fans would think of a Superbowl as really good without their teams being in it these days.
The better games I can remember watching were usually not playoff games anyway.

But you are right, the average viewer just can't get hyped if he doesn't have a dog in the fight ring.

KCTitus
02-07-2006, 07:11 AM
...There are things that can be done to improve the officiating, looking into it would not really be such a crime. Poor officiating ends up becoming a huge credibility problem and you end up looking like the NBA...

My sentiments exactly. Poor play, dropped passes, fumbles will happen...it's part of the game, but these bad calls have to be corrected.

htismaqe
02-07-2006, 07:29 AM
I don't know, I'm in the middle on this stuff. Seems like a lot of people blame the officials for everything from the game to assasinating JFK, while the opposition just sits back and doesn't give a care and acts like everybody else is crazy. I think the Seahawks shot themselves in the foot enough times, they cost themselves the game, no doubt about it.

However, I don't like the passive attitude that what the officials do is what the officials do and you should just lay back there and take it. I think there was some pretty poor officiating in this playoffs that completely changed the course of games, I don't think you can sit back and throw your hands up and say "oh well". There are things that can be done to improve the officiating, looking into it would not really be such a crime. Poor officiating ends up becoming a huge credibility problem and you end up looking like the NBA. Stuff like the blocking call on Hasselbeck, the Polamalu dropped-INT a couple weeks ago, that stuff should not happen, not with replay. You can sit here and say the Seahawks should've done this and this, well the officials should've made those calls correctly, especially at the highest levels like this. The difference is that the Seahawks are going to get right back to work to fix those problems they had yesterday... while officiating goes on unmonitored, I don't think it's so bad to try and make every aspect of the game better...

EGG-zakly.