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unlurking
02-09-2006, 09:45 AM
Hey all, posting my first home/auto repair help thread, and it's my first poop thread too!

woot!

OK, here's the story, toilet overflowed in my son's bathroom (small about 4x6 room with linoleum) Friday night (man, the size of the boulder in there wants me to take make pictures and call Guiness). This room is connected to the main bathroom with sinks and bathtub (about 8x10 carpeted). We did not notice until the next morning when some water was dripping through the vent fan in bathroom below son's bathroom.

Turned off the water to toilet in the bathroom and covered the floor (carpet/linoleum) with towels and rags to try and help soak up the water Saturday. Due to events, over the weekend (as well as driving to KC monday and back yesterday), we were just now able to call for carpet cleaning estimates.

First company to come recommended pulling up the carpet and replacing the pad underneath, then cleaning the carpet. Estimate for this service was $1000.

Does this sound like the right way to do it? It makes sense to me, but $1000 seems VERY pricey to me. I remodeled two bathrooms in my old townhouse (new linoleum/fixtures/vanities/etc. for less than $800 in parts), but have never done anything with carpet.

I might be willing to try it myself if labor savings is huge. We recently bought a Hoover SteamVac, but have not yet had the chance to use it. Do home carpet cleaning units like that do a good job, or is it worth it to have it professionally cleaned?

Thanks for any assistance all!

-UL

Brock
02-09-2006, 09:50 AM
I think I'd pull the carpet up myself and set it out on the driveway to dry. I'm not sure if it will shrink though. Re-installing it would be the hard part.

In any case, you should be able to get brand new carpet INSTALLED for less than what they're quoting.

Phobia
02-09-2006, 09:51 AM
Obviously you're going to save a lot of money doing this yourself. Construction costs are very, very high. You might be able to find somebody to do this cheaper and you might be able to find somebody who makes it a more difficult job than it needs to be. Find somebody you trust - who will get the job done RIGHT and don't worry about how much it costs. $1000 is nothing these days.

If it were MY bathroom, I'd spend $2500 to install a toilet that won't back up and tile throughout.

Phobia
02-09-2006, 09:52 AM
In any case, you should be able to get brand new carpet INSTALLED for less than what they're quoting.

That's probably true.

FAX
02-09-2006, 09:54 AM
I would like to know what the acronym NFT means. I've come up with a lot of possibilities, but none of them seem to make sense.

Would anyone care to inform me on this? If so, may the Lord of Posts bless you.

Non-Football Topic?
Nice Flatulated Tremulos?
N00bish Foreign Tendencies?

FAX

Smed1065
02-09-2006, 10:07 AM
Non-Football Thread

or topic works. :)

FAX
02-09-2006, 10:08 AM
Non-Football Thread

or topic works. :)

tyvm, Mr. smed1065.

FAX

unlurking
02-09-2006, 10:13 AM
Thanks for the comments all (oh, and non-football topic FAX).

Brand new carpet cheaper? Wow, interesting, will have to look into that.

As far as finding someone I trust, that's pretty much my prime investigation with these services. So far, it feels like I'm dealing with auto-mechanics. Finding one to trust is very difficult when you don't have a good knowledge of the service.
I'm also looking at replacing a couple of the toilets in the house as suggested. Have looked at a few, and it looks like the flow diameter of 2 3/4" is the largest available (at home depot/lowes/etc), with 1 3/4" being average (prolly what we have). The problem is my son's boulder must have been about 3 or 4 inches around!!!! He was complaining about constipation, so I'm guessing that was part of the problem.

As far as just tiling the whole thing (which I'd love to do in several areas around my home), I have zero experience, and only basic tools to do such a task. I'm afraid I'd screw it up myself. Maybe I'll see if they have any of those weekend instruction classes on tile at the local home depot.

Phobia
02-09-2006, 10:17 AM
Tile installation is cheap, all things considered. Especially when you consider your own time investment and the end results. I'd recommend having a pro do it. It will look a LOT better and take a couple days instead of weeks to do it yourself.

Are you local?

unlurking
02-09-2006, 10:28 AM
Tile installation is cheap, all things considered. Especially when you consider your own time investment and the end results. I'd recommend having a pro do it. It will look a LOT better and take a couple days instead of weeks to do it yourself.

Are you local?
heh, I wish!

Monument, CO

Was in KC Tuesday (drove in Monday, out Wednesday), would have brought my bathroom with me if you were available! ;)

As far as having a pro do it, I hear ya. I'm a bit of a pefectionist and impatient, so I often get frustrated and pissy and end up just slapping crap together when I can't get it looking right the first time.

Any idea what it would cost a pro to do maybe 100 sf (ought to measure the room today), or what it SHOULD cost?

Then again, we have 3 full baths, and could be OK minus one for a month or so if me doing it myself saves enough money. (As long as my patience is in abundance obviously)

Brock
02-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Thanks for the comments all (oh, and non-football topic FAX).

Brand new carpet cheaper? Wow, interesting, will have to look into that.


I just had my basement carpeted. It was a 17x15 room with a long hallway branching off of it. I bought the cheapest berber Lowe's had and it was installed for just over 600 dollars.

wutamess
02-09-2006, 10:35 AM
Screw that dude...
Get a sack and try to tackle the tile thing yourself.
I've been thinking about doing it myself to replace my [Phobia quote]God awful ugly ass kitchen floor[/end Phobia quote] and my entrance to the home and pathway to laundry room.

Looks pretty simple. You'll need a rotorary type saw though. But once you're done it'll look great and you'll have a pair & maybe even some hair on your chest.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 10:36 AM
OK, so at minimum, I will not be having the carpet cleaned! No need for expensive carpet in a bathroom. I do like the thought of tile, but will have to really investigate costs on this. At the same time, I can assume that costs will double as the wife will want her bathroom updated as well!

mike_b_284
02-09-2006, 10:37 AM
My parents' basement used to flood when I lived in Olathe. We would rent two of those high power blowers from RSC and pull up the corners of the carpet. You set the fans under the carpet for two days to dry the pad, the carpet may shrink a bit but a carpet kicker will strech it back out. Once the pad is dry call Stanley steamer (or which ever company you get the best deal at) and have them clean it. While a retail steam vac may help a bit, they leave soap in the carpet that makes dirt stick and you have to clean the carpet more often.

Brock
02-09-2006, 10:39 AM
OK, so at minimum, I will not be having the carpet cleaned! No need for expensive carpet in a bathroom. I do like the thought of tile, but will have to really investigate costs on this. At the same time, I can assume that costs will double as the wife will want her bathroom updated as well!

If you do go back with carpet, be sure to ask the guys at Lowe's if they have carpet remnants. I was shocked at the amount of carpet they had in the back, and the prices they were willing to sell them for, with installation. Saved a BUNCH of money.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 10:46 AM
Hey all, posting my first home/auto repair help thread, and it's my first poop thread too!

woot!

OK, here's the story, toilet overflowed in my son's bathroom (small about 4x6 room with linoleum) Friday night (man, the size of the boulder in there wants me to take make pictures and call Guiness). This room is connected to the main bathroom with sinks and bathtub (about 8x10 carpeted). We did not notice until the next morning when some water was dripping through the vent fan in bathroom below son's bathroom.

Turned off the water to toilet in the bathroom and covered the floor (carpet/linoleum) with towels and rags to try and help soak up the water Saturday. Due to events, over the weekend (as well as driving to KC monday and back yesterday), we were just now able to call for carpet cleaning estimates.

First company to come recommended pulling up the carpet and replacing the pad underneath, then cleaning the carpet. Estimate for this service was $1000.

Does this sound like the right way to do it? It makes sense to me, but $1000 seems VERY pricey to me. I remodeled two bathrooms in my old townhouse (new linoleum/fixtures/vanities/etc. for less than $800 in parts), but have never done anything with carpet.

I might be willing to try it myself if labor savings is huge. We recently bought a Hoover SteamVac, but have not yet had the chance to use it. Do home carpet cleaning units like that do a good job, or is it worth it to have it professionally cleaned?

Thanks for any assistance all!

-UL

I am a pro carpet cleaner.

Do not use the hoover.

You do need pad replacement

Dont let the carpet cleaner replace the pad.

Have a carpet layer replace the pad then have a cleaner come out and clean it. If you dont do it that way you will be paying big "middle man" charges.

You can easily replace the carpet in an entire room for less than 1000 bucks.

That said, there is often hidden damage in water restoration work. But 1000 bucks is way too much. Be your own genereal contractor and you will save money.

Hope this helps

BTW, if you get the chance, when the carpet and pad are out, waterproof the wood on your subfloor so that in the future you will not damage the wood if it overflows again.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 10:50 AM
My parents' basement used to flood when I lived in Olathe. We would rent two of those high power blowers from RSC and pull up the corners of the carpet. You set the fans under the carpet for two days to dry the pad, the carpet may shrink a bit but a carpet kicker will strech it back out. Once the pad is dry call Stanley steamer (or which ever company you get the best deal at) and have them clean it. While a retail steam vac may help a bit, they leave soap in the carpet that makes dirt stick and you have to clean the carpet more often.

You should never steam clean a carpet.

Dry cleaning is much better and doesnt ruin the backing.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 10:53 AM
If you peel that carpet back and the backing feels sandy or gritty, replace it. It will continue to deteriorate even after restretch. Indoor carpet is not made for water. If you dont replace it now, you will in a few years. If it doesn't feel gritty, then it will probably be alright.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 10:55 AM
OK, so at minimum, I will not be having the carpet cleaned! No need for expensive carpet in a bathroom. I do like the thought of tile, but will have to really investigate costs on this. At the same time, I can assume that costs will double as the wife will want her bathroom updated as well!

The main reason most bathrooms have carpet in them in the 1st place is because the floor wasn't smooth enough for vinyl ot tile. The cost of the covering may not be too bad, but the cost of making the floor slick enough for it can be an extra expense. Do your research before you buy material.

wutamess
02-09-2006, 11:00 AM
The main reason most bathrooms have carpet in them in the 1st place is because the floor wasn't smooth enough for vinyl ot tile. The cost of the covering may not be too bad, but the cost of making the floor slick enough for it can be an extra expense. Do your research before you buy material.

BUT if you use ceramic tile you can even out the floor with the cement stuff they use to lay the tiles & let it dry 24hours before adding the grout.

Problem solved.

Phobia
02-09-2006, 11:00 AM
heh, I wish!
Then again, we have 3 full baths, and could be OK minus one for a month or so if me doing it myself saves enough money. (As long as my patience is in abundance obviously)

Tile installation on a concrete substrate will run anywhere from $4-8 per sq ft. You might be able to find an illegal to do it for $2 or 3.

If you're installing on a wood substrate they're going to have to put down a cementious backer or other suitable substrate stabilizer and it will increase your costs a few bucks per sq ft (but not double).

Ask them how much you can save if you do the grout installation yourself. Grout install is truly something ANY DIYer can do. It's also something no pro likes to do. So he may knock off a chunk of change if you offer to grout yourself.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 11:31 AM
Wow, thanks for all the help guys! Man, I love the planet.

Little update,

We've now had two on-site estimates, and 4 phone discussion estimates. The second on-site guy showed us that the water had seeped under the door into my son's bedroom by about 2 feet. Since this is "blackwater" (although very minimal), they recommend not cleaning anything, and replacing all the carpet in the bathroom and the bedroom.

My homeowner's insurance includes a $1000 deductible, and it looks like I'm going to pay out a full $1000 at least, so I'm just going to have it done professionally. Unfortunately, the insurance company won't pay for tile (since it's replacing carpet), but they will do linoleum.

Trying to figure out the whole insurance process right now. If my rate ends up going up because of it, I may have to do it myself and not use them. Guess it all depends on cost at the moment. Anyways, I'm headed up to make some measurements and get ready to head to Lowes. After that I think I'll have a better idea of whether or not I'll be using insurance. If not, I'll be another new DIYer.

Again, thanks for all the helps and hints guys. I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do yet, but I need to head to Lowe's and start getting pricing. I need to get the carpet pulled up ASAP.

Brock
02-09-2006, 11:56 AM
And feed that kid some citrucel also. My 11 year old has had the same problem from time to time.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 12:04 PM
And feed that kid some citrucel also. My 11 year old has had the same problem from time to time.
haha, mine just turned 12 on Sunday.

Will be getting some fiber stuff at the store tonight for his next complaint!

In good news, my insurance agent just called back to let me know that my deductible is only $500, so it looks like I'll probably be going that route, as soon as I find out all the rules and such. Still need to keep it to a minimum so my rates don't go up though.

Man, that's what I call an expensive poop.

Phobia
02-09-2006, 12:08 PM
I did the same thing in November. Yanked all the carpet, replaced it with tile, and put in an American Standard Champion toilet. Threw away my plunger.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 12:10 PM
The main reason most bathrooms have carpet in them in the 1st place is because the floor wasn't smooth enough for vinyl ot tile. The cost of the covering may not be too bad, but the cost of making the floor slick enough for it can be an extra expense. Do your research before you buy material.
Ouch, that would suck.

I've got a guy from a restoration company coming this afternoon for an estimateon pulling the carpet and pad up in bathroom and bedroom and spraying with some anti-microbial stuff. I'll ask his opinion on the "smoothness" of the floor when everything is up.

Are there any tips for determining if the floor is smooth enough for linoleum? If it isn't, I guess I'll have to do tile and stabilizer as Phobia mentioned (I really never did like carpet in bathrooms).

If I can't do linoleum, I guess I'll have to talk to my insurance agent to find out if/how I can get tile done. They don't want to pay for upgrades, just replacements.

Inspector
02-09-2006, 12:10 PM
Tile may cost more but will increase the value of your house.

And it aint that hard to install.

Get Phobia to do it. That will make it easier.

Good luck.

morphius
02-09-2006, 12:10 PM
I did the same thing in November. Yanked all the carpet, replaced it with tile, and put in an American Standard Champion toilet. Threw away my plunger.
Damn, there's an advertisement, "Not even Phil can block this up with shit".

unlurking
02-09-2006, 12:12 PM
I did the same thing in November. Yanked all the carpet, replaced it with tile, and put in an American Standard Champion toilet. Threw away my plunger.
I was looking at those at Lowes. $189 each. Think I may replace 2 of my toilets with those. Everyone seems to love them.

I'm guessing I'm going to end up paying a $500 deductible and about another $500 for two new toilets (delivery/parts/etc). Now if I can just find a way to get the insurance company to pop for tile instead of linoleum I'll be set.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 12:14 PM
Tile may cost more but will increase the value of your house.

And it aint that hard to install.

Get Phobia to do it. That will make it easier.

Good luck.
I would if I lived in KC. I doubt that my insurance company will pay travel expenses to have him come to Colorado though!

Although I do have plenty of beer, whiskey, tequila, rum, 151, etc!

Phobia
02-09-2006, 12:17 PM
Install the toilets yourself.

If you can assemble toys, you can put a toilet together and install it.

There are very few home improvement tasks I recommend a homeowner do themselves - grout and toilet installation are a couple that almost anybody can do.

Dayze
02-09-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm having 88 sq yard installed next week; with upgraded pad for $1500 by a guy who's recarpeted my parents house 3 times over the years; both my borhters' houses...and now mine.

that's nearly my entire home.

so $1K seems steep to me.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 01:49 PM
BUT if you use ceramic tile you can even out the floor with the cement stuff they use to lay the tiles & let it dry 24hours before adding the grout.

Problem solved.

You are correct. But only if the floor/joints are solid. Otherwise with the movement of the floor, the grout will break up. In the case of bathroom floors that have been wet, they have likely swollen to a point that they are no longer stable enough to do a solid tile job.

I am no floor man, that's for sure. However, I do get to see how long these floors hold up if not done right. Loose tiles and bubbles in vinyl are often time a result of not having a proper subfloor.

If you have a job torn down to the point of laying a new covering, do it right, chances are you wont have the chance or the desire to go back and do it again later.

Floor leveling meterials are just that. Leveling meterial. They are not made to "bondo" a floor that is not structurally ready for vinyl or tile.

Many of the homes built since the 70s have a particle board floor that swells when it gets wet. As it dries, it stays in it's swollen state. Thusly causing a situation where tile or vinyl is not an option unless you are willing to go back and do some work to the subfloor.

Though this might not be the case with this job, it is very likely. Thats why I recommend doing the research before spending the dough. If money is a problem, carpet is the best way to go as it is the cheapest of all floor coverings and it is the most forgiving of a bad floor. But, it's not the most sanitary.

Many times I have seen people put underlayment over the old floor to smooth it out to a point where you can put one of the other options down. Done right, it is a solid fix.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 01:58 PM
You are correct. But only if the floor/joints are solid. Otherwise with the movement of the floor, the grout will break up. In the case of bathroom floors that have been wet, they have likely swollen to a point that they are no longer stable enough to do a solid tile job.

I am no floor man, that's for sure. However, I do get to see how long these floors hold up if not done right. Loose tiles and bubbles in vinyl are often time a result of not having a proper subfloor.

If you have a job torn down to the point of laying a new covering, do it right, chances are you wont have the chance or the desire to go back and do it again later.

Floor leveling meterials are just that. Leveling meterial. They are not made to "bondo" a floor that is not structurally ready for vinyl or tile.

Many of the homes built since the 70s have a particle board floor that swells when it gets wet. As it dries, it stays in it's swollen state. Thusly causing a situation where tile or vinyl is not an option unless you are willing to go back and do some work to the subfloor.

Though this might not be the case with this job, it is very likely. Thats why I recommend doing the research before spending the dough. If money is a problem, carpet is the best way to go as it is the cheapest of all floor coverings and it is the most forgiving of a bad floor. But, it's not the most sanitary.

Many times I have seen people put underlayment over the old floor to smooth it out to a point where you can put one of the other options down. Done right, it is a solid fix.

Well, that's a bit worrisome. Guess I'll know a little more when the carpet and padding are removed.

EDIT:
The house was built in '99. The bathroom is one of those split style designs. The toilet is in a smaller room, while the tub and sinks are just outside in a separate room. I'm assuming that the floor was probably smooth enough for vinyl originally, but as you say, water damage may have nixed that idea. How can I tell?

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 02:01 PM
Ouch, that would suck.

I've got a guy from a restoration company coming this afternoon for an estimateon pulling the carpet and pad up in bathroom and bedroom and spraying with some anti-microbial stuff. I'll ask his opinion on the "smoothness" of the floor when everything is up.

Are there any tips for determining if the floor is smooth enough for linoleum? If it isn't, I guess I'll have to do tile and stabilizer as Phobia mentioned (I really never did like carpet in bathrooms).

If I can't do linoleum, I guess I'll have to talk to my insurance agent to find out if/how I can get tile done. They don't want to pay for upgrades, just replacements.

If it's an insurance job, just tell the guy what you want, and what it will take to do it. Understand that when dealing with an insurance claim the prices are all set through the insurance company. They will be high as hell. Wh cares how much it will cost.

Best case senario is he will find all sorts of problems. The higher the estimate, the more you can do, and the better the chances of getting what you want.

When I say the term "smooth floor", I mean:

1-Is it swollen particle board? If it is then the entire floor should be replaced. If that is the case, then you will likely get whatever floor you want. For 1000 bucks you should be able to get your floor. Just talk to your restoration guy and see what it's gonna take to get the floor you want. Even if that means paying the difference. It will never be cheaper to get what you want than right now.

2- are the joints tight enough and the floor solid enough to do a tile floor.

Good luck.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, that's a bit worrisome. Guess I'll know a little more when the carpet and padding are removed.

Dont worry. The insurance co will do what it takes to get the job done.

Water does alot of unseen damage to a home. The resto man should know what to look for, and how to find all the hidden damage, if any.

Dont worry. The worst part will be dealing with the time it takes to get it done. They try to wear you down. Just be patient and you should get what you want in the end.

The main thing is to let your resto guy do the talking with the ins. co.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 02:06 PM
Well, that's a bit worrisome. Guess I'll know a little more when the carpet and padding are removed.

EDIT:
The house was built in '99. The bathroom is one of those split style designs. The toilet is in a smaller room, while the tub and sinks are just outside in a separate room. I'm assuming that the floor was probably smooth enough for vinyl originally, but as you say, water damage may have nixed that idea. How can I tell?

If you have a particle board floor, and it was wet for over 24 hours. It's swollen.

Brock
02-09-2006, 02:09 PM
Many times I have seen people put underlayment over the old floor to smooth it out to a point where you can put one of the other options down. Done right, it is a solid fix.

It's been my experience that underlayment is a must for linoleum, regardless of the age of the house.

CrazyHorse
02-09-2006, 02:12 PM
It's been my experience that underlayment is a must for linoleum, regardless of the age of the house.

I agree.

wutamess
02-09-2006, 02:18 PM
Speaking of having Phob install it.

Think I can borrow you phb one of these weekends for about 1 hour of your time so you can show make sure I'm preping and laying the ceramic tile? I have a pretty good idea but incase I FUBAR something I'd rather have a familiar person around. (Notice how I danced aroun using pro).

Phobia
02-09-2006, 02:38 PM
Yeah - I can give you some training and even rent you the necessary tools, Roger. Let me know when.

unlurking
02-09-2006, 05:18 PM
Well, the affected carpet and pad have been cut out, with big blue blowers fanning the area. There's about a 2 square foot of area with black mold splotches by the bathtub. Obvioulsy not from this incident, but from the previous owners maybe overflowing the tub, or constantly using the shower with the curtain outside the tub.

I always hated the idea of carpeted bathrooms. Guess we'll be able to see how good the floor is after it dries, but it does look pretty level.

We're definitely going with new carpet at a minimum, linoleum if the floor is OK and the insurance payout is being cheap, and tile if we can swing the extra for it. Oh yeah, will be installing a new toilet as well (anyone know where to dispose of old toilets?).

Thanks for the tips everyone!