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recxjake
02-15-2006, 08:31 AM
Jets | Abraham wants out
Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:04:01 -0800

Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports New York Jets DE John Abraham confused by the direction of the organization and upset that it seemingly doesn't consider him part of the long-term plan, has told friends that he wants to play elsewhere. "He wants to get the hell out of New York," a person close to Abraham said Tuesday, Feb. 14. "He's pretty upset." The Jets have until Feb. 23 to decide whether to use the franchise tag on Abraham for the second straight year. The thought is the Jets will use the tag for the purpose of trading him, but there are serious salary cap implications that might force the Jets to simply let him hit the open market.

Saulbadguy
02-15-2006, 08:32 AM
No thanks.

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 08:33 AM
Im still not sold that abraham brings to the table what KC really needs. yeah hes good,but is he awesome?

recxjake
02-15-2006, 08:34 AM
Im still not sold that abraham brings to the table what KC really needs. yeah hes good,but is he awesome?

Better then Hicks

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 08:38 AM
Better then Hicks

my fatass would be better than Hicks. Id still like Grady Jackson, IMO he would be more of a presence and bring the play of the other downlineman way up.
A true run stuffer who can take on double teams would free up ALOT of gaps.

oldandslow
02-15-2006, 08:40 AM
for the right price---you bet.

I am afraid that his tag will be too high

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 08:41 AM
my fatass would be better than Hicks. Id still like Grady Jackson, IMO he would be more of a presence and bring the play of the other downlineman way up.
A true run stuffer who can take on double teams would free up ALOT of gaps.

Instead of Grady Jackson, we should get Gabe Watson in the draft. 10 years younger and still 340 lbs. of monster.

ameliorated1216
02-15-2006, 08:41 AM
I am just worried about the Chiefs keeping the good players they already have.

Cochise
02-15-2006, 08:43 AM
Hicks is not great, but not bad - an average DE.

I'm not convinced Abraham is where we need to spend the money. Is anyone else worried about the prospect of having two 250lb defensive ends?

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 08:44 AM
Instead of Grady Jackson, we should get Gabe Watson in the draft. 10 years younger and still 340 lbs. of monster.

But can he come in NOW and make a diffrence?

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 08:46 AM
But can he come in NOW and make a diffrence?

He's NFL-ready right now. His only issue is that he might not have the best work-ethic. But in terms of talent, he was a man among boys in the Big 10.

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 08:47 AM
He's NFL-ready right now. His only issue is that he might not have the best work-ethic. But in terms of talent, he was a man among boys in the Big 10.
so your opinion of him has gone up?ill read up on it in the draft forum.

CoMoChief
02-15-2006, 08:50 AM
Im still not sold that abraham brings to the table what KC really needs. yeah hes good,but is he awesome?


Uhhh Eric Hicks??? No further questions your honor.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 08:53 AM
If we had a DT that could actually push the pocket from the interior, our current DEs would become much better. Hicks gets decent outside pressure, but the QB always has a pocket to step up into. Abraham would just do the same thing Hicks and Allen do, see the QB continually escape their rush because of no interior pressure.

milkman
02-15-2006, 08:53 AM
Instead of Grady Jackson, we should get Gabe Watson in the draft. 10 years younger and still 340 lbs. of monster.

I could roll with that, in spite of his reputation as a slacker.

Then let's move Wilkerson back to DE, where he belongs.

milkman
02-15-2006, 08:55 AM
If we had a DT that could actually push the pocket from the interior, our current DEs would become much better. Hicks gets decent outside pressure, but the QB always has a pocket to step up into. Abraham would just do the same thing Hicks and Allen do, see the QB continually escape their rush because of no interior pressure.

Allen, however, still gets to the QB.

Hicks lacks the speed to get the same numbers as Allen.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 08:58 AM
Allen, however, still gets to the QB.

Hicks lacks the speed to get the same numbers as Allen.I agree that Hicks doesn't have Allen's speed. But neither does Abraham. And while he may be faster than Hicks, it doesn't change the fact that the real problem with our D-line is lack of pressure in the middle of the pocket. I don't know if it can be fixed in FA, but I think Abraham will only be a minimal upgrade until we can start collapsing the pocket. Probably not enough of an upgrade to warrant the money we'd have to pay him.

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 09:02 AM
If the goal is to collapse the pocket why take Watson? He's not known for doing that. He occupies space.

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 09:02 AM
id rather give Hall a chance to beat out hicks in camp than bring in abraham or bosch.

Hopefully we wont have more of the same BS w/ Coach Edwards............ w/ insane loyalties and such.

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 09:03 AM
If the goal is to collapse the pocket why take Watson? He's not known for doing that. He occupies space.

a big UDT that takes on two blockers frees up gaps, and colapses the pocket.
See Tampas SB runs.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 09:06 AM
If the goal is to collapse the pocket why take Watson? He's not known for doing that. He occupies space.I didn't say the goal is to take Watson.

But I think the answer would be that it would free up Sims from double teams, allowing him to collapse the pocket. I think you need one widebody, and one guy that can get upfield.

greg63
02-15-2006, 09:07 AM
If we had a DT that could actually push the pocket from the interior, our current DEs would become much better. Hicks gets decent outside pressure, but the QB always has a pocket to step up into. Abraham would just do the same thing Hicks and Allen do, see the QB continually escape their rush because of no interior pressure.

I agree; we still have yet to demonstrate the ability to pressure the QB out of the pocket in order for the DE's to get him. I don't know, but perhaps if we could get an entire season out of Sims that could improve.

greg63
02-15-2006, 09:08 AM
I didn't say the goal is to take Watson.

But I think the answer would be that it would free up Sims from double teams, allowing him to collapse the pocket. I think you need one widebody, and one guy that can get upfield.


Yup, I'm a bit slow on the draw.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 09:08 AM
id rather give Hall a chance to beat out hicks in camp than bring in abraham or bosch.

Hopefully we wont have more of the same BS w/ Coach Edwards............ w/ insane loyalties and such.I agree with you on Hall. If he could stay healthy, we would have a monster on our hands.

I don't know what the story is with his injuries. At what point does it stop being bad luck and start being "injury prone"? Hall is a FA I believe. If the coaches bring him back, I guess that will tell us that they still believe it's bad luck.

milkman
02-15-2006, 09:09 AM
I agree that Hicks doesn't have Allen's speed. But neither does Abraham. And while he may be faster than Hicks, it doesn't change the fact that the real problem with our D-line is lack of pressure in the middle of the pocket. I don't know if it can be fixed in FA, but I think Abraham will only be a minimal upgrade until we can start collapsing the pocket. Probably not enough of an upgrade to warrant the money we'd have to pay him.

Oh. I'm not advocating persuing Abraham.

In fact, I have no desire to see the Chiefs persue him.

I'd like to see the Chiefs address the D-Line issues in the draft.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 09:13 AM
Oh. I'm not advocating persuing Abraham.

In fact, I have no desire to see the Chiefs persue him.

I'd like to see the Chiefs address the D-Line issues in the draft.Me too. We likely won't find a good FA DT, and I don't believe the DEs are worth the money.

I think the place where I differ from most Chiefs fans is that I believe Hicks can be a solid DE if we can just get good play from our DTs. Sure I'd love to have a stud in his place. But you can't have studs at every single position, and to me Hicks fits the bill for a role player.

milkman
02-15-2006, 09:20 AM
Me too. We likely won't find a good FA DT, and I don't believe the DEs are worth the money.

I think the place where I differ from most Chiefs fans is that I believe Hicks can be a solid DE if we can just get good play from our DTs. Sure I'd love to have a stud in his place. But you can't have studs at every single position, and to me Hicks fits the bill for a role player.

The single thing that pisses me off about Hicks the most is the fact that he ALWAYS bites on the misdiection.

He's been in the league long enough that he should understand the need to maintain his responsibilties.

That, along with the fact that he lacks the size for the middle of the line, is why I'd like to see Wilkerson moved back to DE.

He showed, at least in the preseason, that he understands his role in maintaining responsibilty to outside containment.

DJJasonp
02-15-2006, 09:22 AM
He's NFL-ready right now. His only issue is that he might not have the best work-ethic. But in terms of talent, he was a man among boys in the Big 10.


Dont we already have a clone of that type of player....Ryan Simms?

(work ethic)

Hog Farmer
02-15-2006, 09:24 AM
Hopefully, Sims will get in a full year this season. The staff was really up on him last year before he got hurt. If he finally lives up to his reputation it will be a great blessing. Herm will probably get the most out of our Defense this year. Now Hicks is consistently a 6 on the scale from 1 to 10. I agree Carlos Hall has more potential but Hicks IS consistent and I can't ever remember him being hurt. I still say spend any available money on the DE/DT position only if it is truly an upgrade.

jspchief
02-15-2006, 09:24 AM
The single thing that pisses me off about Hicks the most is the fact that he ALWAYS bites on the misdiection.

He's been in the league long enough that he should understand the need to maintain his responsibilties.

That, along with the fact that he lacks the size for the middle of the line, is why I'd like to see Wilkerson moved back to DE.

He showed, at least in the preseason, that he understands his role in maintaining responsibilty to outside containment.Allen is guilty of the same thing. I suppose inexperience could be his excuse though.

I'm not trying to make excuses for Hicks, but maybe the DT problem is at least partially to blame. Maybe it stems from our DEs having to crash inside knowing that's the only way to get to the QB/RB, because our DTs won't force anyone outside. Just a thought. I don't know if it would matter.

milkman
02-15-2006, 09:32 AM
Allen is guilty of the same thing. I suppose inexperience could be his excuse though.

I'm not trying to make excuses for Hicks, but maybe the DT problem is at least partially to blame. Maybe it stems from our DEs having to crash inside knowing that's the only way to get to the QB/RB, because our DTs won't force anyone outside. Just a thought. I don't know if it would matter.

Yeah.

If Allen continues to bite, then he'll be pissing me off as much as Hicks, because he has reached the point that he's had enough experience to have learned.

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 09:32 AM
The DT you want in free agency, if he hits the market, is Rob Meier of the Jags. Go to any Jags board and see what the fans say about the guy. Supposedly he is Jax's #1 offseason priority to re-sign.

MOhillbilly
02-15-2006, 09:33 AM
Dont we already have a clone of that type of player....Ryan Simms?

(work ethic)

ive though hes played tough in what little he has been in the last 2 years.

Stinger
02-15-2006, 09:36 AM
Is anyone else worried about the prospect of having two 250lb defensive ends?

Nope ... Gun is about to announce he will dropping our DE to Linebackers and we are going to run a 2-5 this year instead of a 4-3

jspchief
02-15-2006, 09:37 AM
The DT you want in free agency, if he hits the market, is Rob Meier of the Jags. Go to any Jags board and see what the fans say about the guy. Supposedly he is Jax's #1 offseason priority to re-sign.This is the second time someone has mentioned Meier (maybe you both times). I have to say I don't know much about him, but 6 sacks in limited play is certainly intriguing. The question is, what took him so long? He's been in the league for 6 years. It kind of reeks of "product of the system" or "one year/contract year wonder".

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 09:44 AM
This is the second time someone has mentioned Meier (maybe you both times). I have to say I don't know much about him, but 6 sacks in limited play is certainly intriguing. The question is, what took him so long? He's been in the league for 6 years. It kind of reeks of "product of the system" or "one year/contract year wonder".

It's tough to get playing time behind Stroud and Henderson? I just know that Jag fans speak highly of him. There were rumors last week he would re-sign with them, but nothing official yet.

Simplex3
02-15-2006, 10:07 AM
Hicks is not great, but not bad - an average DE.

I'm not convinced Abraham is where we need to spend the money. Is anyone else worried about the prospect of having two 250lb defensive ends?
The same kind of worried about lining up Sam Mills or Zach Thomas at MLB, yes.

Cormac
02-15-2006, 11:19 AM
It's tough to get playing time behind Stroud and Henderson? I just know that Jag fans speak highly of him. There were rumors last week he would re-sign with them, but nothing official yet.

I don't know much about Meier. But a word of caution. A few years ago, there was a stud in Baltimore who supposedly could have started for any other team. He didn't get much PT behind Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa. He got a huge contract from Denver :D to be their starter and never panned out. Ladies and Gentlemen.......Lionel Dalton.

What is it about DTs that makes them so damn lazy and underachieving, so often? The only D-linemen I want to hear about the Chiefs considering in the draft/FA are "high-motor" guys. The rest is just potential, and I've sure as hell seen enough of that wasted. Give me 4 Jared Allens over 4 Gabe Watsons any day. At least they'd be fun to cheer on. If you want a "space-eater" why not just keep Junior Siavii. He's 340lb and a part-time player too.

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 11:21 AM
I don't know much about the guy. But a few years ago, there was a stud in Baltimore who supposedly could have started for any other team. He didn't get much PT behind Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa. He got a huge contract (from Denver :D) and never panned out. Ladies and Gentlemen.......Lionel Dalton.

.

Except Dalton has been the best DT on the Chiefs the last two years.

Dave Lane
02-15-2006, 11:25 AM
Instead of Grady Jackson, we should get Gabe Watson in the draft. 10 years younger and still 340 lbs. of monster.


This didn't seem good..

Watson is not very fast or agile. He won't get up field quickly, and recorded just 1.5 sacks in his career. He has started only 11 games at Michigan prior to the '05 season even though he wasn't redshirted. Needs some polish and to make better reads on plays. As of right now he more of a two gap tackle. Could be a one gap if he sheds a few pounds.

I'd like to see more pressure from a DT though he would hopefully be a big help for Sims.

Dave

Dave Lane
02-15-2006, 11:28 AM
Instead of Grady Jackson, we should get Gabe Watson in the draft. 10 years younger and still 340 lbs. of monster.


And this didn't seem good as well..

Weaknesses:
Underachiever who doesn't always play up to his talent level...Looks like a Top 5 pick on one play and a 7th rounder on the next...Lazy and needs to show more effort on a consistent basis...Struggles to stay in shape and gets too heavy...Has trouble with his stamina and easily runs out of gas...Seems to be on the ground a lot...Will never be a great pass rusher...Was actually benched as a senior.

Notes:
Possible 3-4 nose tackle...Can be very disruptive and the things he does don't always show up in the box score...Has all the potential in the world but only plays up to it in spurts...Could be a great player at the next level but any team drafting him will be gambling that they can get the best out of him...Boom or bust prospect.

Dave

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 11:29 AM
This didn't seem good..

Watson is not very fast or agile. He won't get up field quickly, and recorded just 1.5 sacks in his career. He has started only 11 games at Michigan prior to the '05 season even though he wasn't redshirted. Needs some polish and to make better reads on plays. As of right now he more of a two gap tackle. Could be a one gap if he sheds a few pounds.

I'd like to see more pressure from a DT though he would hopefully be a big help for Sims.

Dave

I think your stats are wrong. Watson was more productive, when he felt like it.

I'm sorry but using a first round pick on a guy that was benched his senior season for lack of effort is way too risky for a team that needs so much help.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 11:30 AM
so your opinion of him has gone up?ill read up on it in the draft forum.

No, it really hasn't changed.

I would love to pick him, based on his ability. I would just like to do it later, so that he wouldn't get as much money.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 11:31 AM
If the goal is to collapse the pocket why take Watson? He's not known for doing that. He occupies space.

Watson would occupy space so that Sims could collapse the pocket.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 11:32 AM
Dont we already have a clone of that type of player....Ryan Simms?

(work ethic)

Sims = 315

Watson = 340

RedThat
02-15-2006, 11:34 AM
You know who is a good player? DT position. A guy from OU, goes by the name Dusty Dvoracek. He is a high motor guy. Never quits on plays. He can possibly be a 3rd round pick.

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Watson would occupy space so that Sims could collapse the pocket.

Watson would occupy space if he plays hard. He doesn't play hard and his conditioning is suspect. Factor that in with relying on Sims to do something and it looks like a recipe for disaster.

Mr. Laz
02-15-2006, 11:45 AM
forgive me if this is rec's lead post ... but i haven't seen any of his post in months.



Abraham may Jet out of N.Y.

By RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Jets defensive end John Abraham, confused by the direction of the organization and upset that it seemingly doesn't consider him part of the long-term plan, has told friends that he wants to play elsewhere.
"He wants to get the hell out of New York," a person close to Abraham said yesterday. "He's pretty upset."

Abraham, eligible to become a free agent on March 3, might get his wish. The Jets still haven't had substantive contract talks with Abraham, and there appears to be no chance of signing him to a long-term deal by the start of free agency, according to several industry sources.

The Jets have until Feb. 23 to decide whether to use the franchise tag on Abraham for the second straight year. The prevailing theory is that they will use the tag for the purpose of trading him, but there are serious salary-cap implications that might force the Jets to simply let him hit the open market. No matter how it plays out, Abraham probably has played his last game with the Jets.

Abraham's future is one of many hot issues facing the Jets' new regime. They already have approached Chad Pennington about taking an $8 million pay cut.

As expected, the club also has opened talks with Curtis Martin about reworking his contract (read: significant pay reduction), according to a person familiar with the situation.

Martin, 32, coming off his worst season and knee surgery, will count $8.1 million on the salary cap, which includes $6.2 million in base salary. The Jets would clear $2.4million in cap room by cutting the NFL's fourth all-time leading rusher.

Despite a Hall of Fame-caliber resume, Martin isn't untouchable, although it's believed the Jets would like to have him back in a reduced role.

Several veterans will be asked to accept pay cuts, as the Jets are about $26 million over the projected cap ($92million). Several players are expected to be released, including Ty Law, Jay Fiedler, Jason Fabini, Pete Kendall and, possibly, Kevin Mawae.

The Jets are rebuilding, and they appear poised to do it without their most prolific pass rusher.

Abraham, disgruntled last season while playing on a one-year, $6.7 million contract (the designated amount for a franchise defensive end), is believed to be seeking at least $18 million in guarantees. In December, he said he wanted a long-term deal, whether it was with the Jets or another team.

The previous regime didn't believe Abraham was worth that kind of money, and apparently neither does the new brain trust - and Abraham is bitter.

"He feels like they don't respect him," the person close to him said.

Conventional wisdom says the Jets can use the franchise tag for the purpose of trading him, but that would eat up another $8 million in cap space. That would necessitate clearing $34 million by March 3, and industry sources believe the Jets will be hard-pressed to do that by March 3.

If the Jets can't afford to tag him, Abraham would be a free man. Abraham is said to be dreading the prospect of getting the franchise designation.

The tag him/trade him scenario also could backfire if Abraham actually signs the $8 million franchise tender when it's presented. (In 2005, he waited until August.) Because of complicated cap implications, that would hurt the chances of a trade, a piece of leverage Abraham's agents probably will use.

But there is a wild card. The circumstances could change if a new collective bargaining agreement is put into place before the start of free agency. A new CBA would increase the salary cap and could change the rules for franchise players.

Dave Lane
02-15-2006, 11:47 AM
Watson would occupy space if he plays hard. He doesn't play hard and his conditioning is suspect. Factor that in with relying on Sims to do something and it looks like a recipe for disaster.

I agree a 100% we can't afford to miss on this one.


Dave

Hoover
02-15-2006, 11:57 AM
For the right price I would love to see Abraham sign with the Chiefs. He is not the best DE the game has ever seen, but it would really help our pass rush and Jared Allen.

The problem the Chiefs have is we still have not solved our lack of DT production. I think we have to bank on Sims and sign a big fatty as a FA.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 11:59 AM
Watson would occupy space if he plays hard. He doesn't play hard and his conditioning is suspect. Factor that in with relying on Sims to do something and it looks like a recipe for disaster.

That's why I think he'd be a good 2nd-rounder. If he has to play 3 years to get his big payday, I don't think laziness will be an issue.

He's already shown that when his check is on the line (the Senior Bowl) he's a top DT...

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:00 PM
And on Sims, we have to rely on him for something...it would cost too much not to...

Hoover
02-15-2006, 12:03 PM
I think it would be really smart for the Chiefs to spen a 2nd round pick on a DT, I just think in the first round we need to focus on S. or Oline.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:06 PM
For the right price I would love to see Abraham sign with the Chiefs. He is not the best DE the game has ever seen, but it would really help our pass rush and Jared Allen.

The problem the Chiefs have is we still have not solved our lack of DT production. I think we have to bank on Sims and sign a big fatty as a FA.

If we are going to rely on Sims, then we could drat Watson as the big fatty.

I thought that Sims was finally answering the bell, before he was injured, so this may not be as much of an issue as some here think.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:07 PM
I'd also prefer to see a DT in the 2nd round, with the 1st round being used on DE or S.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:11 PM
I'd also prefer to see a DT in the 2nd round, with the 1st round being used on DE or S.

The problem is, you are limiting your choices by targeting certain positions.

If Huff, Hali, Kiawunka are gone, are you going to draft Bing?

Or would you draft elsewhere, based on BAA, regardless of position?

ct
02-15-2006, 12:12 PM
... If you want a "space-eater" why not just keep Junior Siavii. He's 340lb and a part-time player too.

Because a "space-eater" has got to be a tough SOB to deal with 2 blockers, and still get the job done catching a RB on the way by. Jr. is definitely none of that.

Hoover
02-15-2006, 12:15 PM
The problem is, you are limiting your choices by targeting certain positions.

If Huff, Hali, Kiawunka are gone, are you going to draft Bing?

Or would you draft elsewhere, based on BAA, regardless of position?
I don't think anyof us are saying DT or nothing in the 2nd.

We think if a DT is there in the 2nd round, that is a good value we should draft him.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:19 PM
The problem is, you are limiting your choices by targeting certain positions.

If Huff, Hali, Kiawunka are gone, are you going to draft Bing?

Or would you draft elsewhere, based on BAA, regardless of position?

No, I'm not limiting my choices. First pick would be DE or S. If those are gone, I'd look at DT. If there's no good choices there, I'd go WR, OT, and CB.

Overall, I think we should go BAA, but with a focus on DE and S in the 1st.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:21 PM
I don't think anyof us are saying DT or nothing in the 2nd.

We think if a DT is there in the 2nd round, that is a good value we should draft him.
That works, too, but I was asking about Parker's 1st round DE or S.

I agree that those are areas of need, but if there is a better athlete at LB or Wr, for instance, would he be in favor of drafting that LB or Wr?

If Santonio Holmes and Bing are sitting there at #20, do you draft Holmes or Bing?

ct
02-15-2006, 12:23 PM
Bing, bigger impact IMO.

Cormac
02-15-2006, 12:23 PM
Except Dalton has been the best DT on the Chiefs the last two years.

All I'm saying is that Dalton was a major bust given his rep in Baltimore. There's a chance that Meier will be the same way, and that somebody will overpay for him. The fact that Dalton was a major contributor to the interior of the Chiefs D-line says a lot more about the D-line than it does about Dalton, IMO.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:24 PM
No, I'm not limiting my choices. First pick would be DE or S. If those are gone, I'd look at DT. If there's no good choices there, I'd go WR, OT, and CB.

Overall, I think we should go BAA, but with a focus on DE and S in the 1st.

In the draft forum, there's a mock draft that has us taking Watson and Cromartie.

I think you liked this draft scenario if we were looking to switch Cramartie to safety.

Is there a better realistic draft scenrio?

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 12:24 PM
Famous last words, but I think it will be tough for KC to screw up this draft.

They need help at so many positions, there should be a BAA at a position of need available. There is a need for a saftey, DE, DT and even CB and OLB. On offense there is a need for a WR, OT, perhaps an OG, FB, backup HB and QBOTF.

Cormac
02-15-2006, 12:24 PM
Because a "space-eater" has got to be a tough SOB to deal with 2 blockers, and still get the job done catching a RB on the way by. Jr. is definitely none of that.

That comment was TIC, given the argument posed by some that "a wide body" = "a space-eater", which is obviously not the case (see Jr. Siavii).

ct
02-15-2006, 12:25 PM
In the draft forum, there's a mock draft that has us taking Watson and Cromartie.

I think you liked this draft scenario if we were looking to switch Cramartie to safety.

Is there a better realistic draft scenrio?

Hali and Watson/Bunkley

ct
02-15-2006, 12:26 PM
That comment was TIC, given the argument posed by some that "a wide body" = "a space-eater", which is obviously not the case (see Jr. Siavii).

Oh, my bad. I'm relieved to hear that actually! Restores at least a little faith...otherwise I was quite concerned.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:28 PM
That works, too, but I was asking about Parker's 1st round DE or S.

I agree that those are areas of need, but if there is a better athlete at LB or Wr, for instance, would he be in favor of drafting that LB or Wr?

If Santonio Holmes and Bing are sitting there at #20, do you draft Holmes or Bing?

Bing.

To me, Holmes and Bing are on the same level athletically. Safety is a bigger need to me.

Cormac
02-15-2006, 12:28 PM
Famous last words, but I think it will be tough for KC to screw up this draft.

They need help at so many positions, there should be a BAA at a position of need available. There is a need for a saftey, DE, DT and even CB and OLB. On offense there is a need for a WR, OT, perhaps an OG, FB, backup HB and QBOTF.

I agree. I also think that the Chiefs will tend to take the BAA regardless of position. I do hope it's a DT, OT or S, though. I really hope it's not a CB given the players we already have (assuming we can afford Warfield). Also, it's unrealistic to expect a rookie CB to come in and do a good job (see Terence Newman, Trufant, PacMan, Carlos Rodgers etc. etc.).

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:29 PM
In the draft forum, there's a mock draft that has us taking Watson and Cromartie.

I think you liked this draft scenario if we were looking to switch Cramartie to safety.

Is there a better realistic draft scenrio?

To me Cromartie isn't BAA there, becuase of his devastating injury. If it hadn't have been for that, we wouldn't even be discussing him - he'd probably be a top 5 pick.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:29 PM
Hali and Watson/Bunkley

I don't think that Watson is a realistic 2nd round choice.
I even question if Bunkley will last till the Chiefs 2nd round pick.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:29 PM
Famous last words, but I think it will be tough for KC to screw up this draft.

They need help at so many positions, there should be a BAA at a position of need available. There is a need for a saftey, DE, DT and even CB and OLB. On offense there is a need for a WR, OT, perhaps an OG, FB, backup HB and QBOTF.

I totally agree.

Unfortunately, if there's one man that could **** it up, it's Carl Peterson.

Hoover
02-15-2006, 12:29 PM
I bet Carl trades down, takes a QB, we all get pissed off and then Green goes down, and Carl's QB turns out to be the best QB to ever play the game.

KEEP EFFIN DOUBTING CARL EFFIN PETERSON THE CHIEFS GM NOT THE GOLFER!

Cormac
02-15-2006, 12:29 PM
Oh, my bad. I'm relieved to hear that actually! Restores at least a little faith...otherwise I was quite concerned.

:D
Thanks for your concern.....it would be lonely on the Jr. Siavii bandwagon.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:32 PM
To me Cromartie isn't BAA there, becuase of his devastating injury. If it hadn't have been for that, we wouldn't even be discussing him - he'd probably be a top 5 pick.

Isn't that draft scenario one that has us taking Cromartie in the 2nd?

Are you saying that he wouldn't likely be the BAA in the 2nd round?

Or do I have that reversed?

ct
02-15-2006, 12:33 PM
I don't think that Watson is a realistic 2nd round choice.
I even question if Bunkley will last till the Chiefs 2nd round pick.

I question if Hali makes it past 15, but hey, it's my cloud, so stay the F off!!! :)

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:37 PM
Isn't that draft scenario one that has us taking Cromartie in the 2nd?

Are you saying that he wouldn't likely be the BAA in the 2nd round?

Or do I have that reversed?

Yes, it was Watson in the 1st, Cromartie in the 2nd.

My problem with BAA that high...think Kris Wilson. I don't care if he was the BAA at that pick, you HAVE to get SOMETHING out of your 2nd-round pick.

Unless we cut Warfield (and possibly even if we do), a drafted CB won't see the field. With Surtain and Sapp as pencilled-in starters, and with Battle coming back, I just don't see a drafted CB getting on the field.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:38 PM
I question if Hali makes it past 15, but hey, it's my cloud, so stay the F off!!! :)

I'm assuming that's a cloud created by the use of the mary juana. :)

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:39 PM
Yes, it was Watson in the 1st, Cromartie in the 2nd.

My problem with BAA that high...think Kris Wilson. I don't care if he was the BAA at that pick, you HAVE to get SOMETHING out of your 2nd-round pick.

Unless we cut Warfield (and possibly even if we do), a drafted CB won't see the field. With Surtain and Sapp as pencilled-in starters, and with Battle coming back, I just don't see a drafted CB getting on the field.

I thought we were talking about switching Cromartie to safety?

Chiefnj
02-15-2006, 12:40 PM
I agree. I also think that the Chiefs will tend to take the BAA regardless of position. I do hope it's a DT, OT or S, though. I really hope it's not a CB given the players we already have (assuming we can afford Warfield). Also, it's unrealistic to expect a rookie CB to come in and do a good job (see Terence Newman, Trufant, PacMan, Carlos Rodgers etc. etc.).

If they play a cover-2 scheme it might make the transition for a CB a little easier.

It's probably a good draft to grab a DT in the 2nd or 3rd round. You have both guys from LSU, Harris, Wright and Lewis.

htismaqe
02-15-2006, 12:52 PM
I thought we were talking about switching Cromartie to safety?

I was.

Because I think that's the only way he'd be able to have a decent impact in his 1st season.

penchief
02-15-2006, 12:53 PM
I'd rather have Tamba Hali if he's available with our pick. Hali gives it his all on every play. He plays the run very well and he's ALWAYS creating havoc in the backfield on passing plays. The dude started out as a defensive tackle. So while he may not have ideal size for a defensive lineman, he can hold his own at the point of attack.

I honestly believe that putting a guy with Hali's motor opposite Allen on the DL would cause a lot more matchup problems for opposing offenses. Add a big body in the middle and maybe those two moves alone can transform our defense.

milkman
02-15-2006, 12:54 PM
I was.

Because I think that's the only way he'd be able to have a decent impact in his 1st season.

That was the premise my question was based on.

Cormac
02-15-2006, 01:59 PM
If they play a cover-2 scheme it might make the transition for a CB a little easier.

It's probably a good draft to grab a DT in the 2nd or 3rd round. You have both guys from LSU, Harris, Wright and Lewis.

If we can get a good (motivated) DT in the 2nd round and get an OT (or maybe a top Safety) in the 1st, that would be perfect.

I just can't expect quick return on investment in a CB. And with the way the PI rules are being policed, shut-down corners are extinct. Spending a 1st round pick on a corner for our team would be like investing in dot.com stocks.....a bit late.

JMO.