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View Full Version : Sports stadium roundtable on 38 the spot


Cochise
02-15-2006, 06:10 PM
Jack Harry, Kevin Keitzman, county sports figures debating the issue.

Kind of interesting so far if you can deal with the personalities clashing.

BigRedChief
02-15-2006, 08:13 PM
Jack Harry, Kevin Keitzman, county sports figures debating the issue.

Kind of interesting so far if you can deal with the personalities clashing.

The black dude owning Kietzman was "Sly". He's got us Chief fans back. KK only cares about downtown baseball.

ChiefsCountry
02-15-2006, 08:17 PM
Harry and KK would be like watching Dumb and Dumber.

Mark M
02-15-2006, 08:25 PM
So ... watched the show and here's the short(ish) version for those that missed it:


Harry was his usual bitter self. Dude needs a hug. Also basically cupped what little manhood Kietzman has by stating that KK has the #1 afternoon sports show in KC ... as if that really means a lot or something.

Kietzman interrupted constantly and pulled some $800 million figure out of his ass (apparently, he didn't read the executive summary. Maybe if an intern delivered it to him orally he'd pay attention). He also blasted the 1990 leases and Shields even though, last I checked, she wasn't responsible for those leases.

Tolbert talked about the tax being on children and disabled. He also admitted that he hadn't read any of the papers.

Nash actually tossed the lease across the table at Sly at one point -- he said something was in the lease when, in reality, it's not.

Sly listed facts and was incredibly classy and respectful. In other words, the opposite of KK.

I think, if given the chance, Reiderer would kick KK in the nuts -- he and KK got in a rather animated discussion.

Helling actually brought up some good points when he could get a word in above KK and Nash -- pointed out that the county has already paid more than $100 million to do pretty much nothing, and that fixing them once and for all would be a good thing.


That's about it in a nutshell -- the pro side used facts and logic, the against used interruptions, raised voices and emotion. Was quite impressed with Sly (although he did bring up the "do it or they will leave" argument, which I wish he wouldn't have).

MM
~~:)

John_Wayne
02-15-2006, 08:40 PM
Have I mentioned lately that I HATE Jack Harry? He's a bitter old man and a stupid bastard.

I'm glad that someone finally stood up to KK and called him on his downtown stadium BS.

I'm sure that KK will twist things around and make himself look like a hero on his radio show tomorrow.

milkman
02-15-2006, 09:10 PM
For the uninformed, like me, who is Sly, yo?

Cochise
02-15-2006, 09:14 PM
Dave Helling was the only one there who looked like they had brain cells to rub together.

CHENZ A!
02-15-2006, 10:50 PM
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Kietzman interrupted constantly and pulled some $800 million figure out of his ass (apparently, he didn't read the executive summary. Maybe if an intern delivered it to him orally he'd pay attention). He also blasted the 1990 leases and Shields even though, last I checked, she wasn't responsible for those leases.


I believe the 800 mil figure is with interest over the course of the lease. Helling was good, everyone else was just yelling over one another. A 20 min debate was not near long enough. To me, and this is purely my opinion, this deal makes no sense, to spend all this money to patch up old buildings, when we could build new ones for around what this will end up costing.

Guru
02-15-2006, 10:52 PM
I believe the 800 mil figure is with interest over the course of the lease. Helling was good, everyone else was just yelling over one another. A 20 min debate was not near long enough. To me, and this is purely my opinion, this deal makes no sense, to spend all this money to patch up old buildings, when we could build new ones for around what this will end up costing.

That is what I have been feeling as well. Wyandotte is screaming for Arrowhead 2.

Demonpenz
02-15-2006, 10:54 PM
lets just tear down soldier field and lambouu while we are at it

Guru
02-15-2006, 10:57 PM
lets just tear down soldier field and lambouu while we are at it

I hear what you are saying, I just don't feel Arrowhead is anywhere near the mystique those stadiums have.

Phobia
02-15-2006, 11:00 PM
Sly is a great guy. The couple of times I've met him I always felt comfortable with him. I don't get that with lawyers often (ever).

Demonpenz
02-15-2006, 11:03 PM
i was actually just arguing the naive point that was bound to get made. I want whats best for the city, but i also wouldn't mind the entertainment value of if 810 doesn't get its wish

Mark M
02-15-2006, 11:04 PM
I believe the 800 mil figure is with interest over the course of the lease. Helling was good, everyone else was just yelling over one another. A 20 min debate was not near long enough. To me, and this is purely my opinion, this deal makes no sense, to spend all this money to patch up old buildings, when we could build new ones for around what this will end up costing.

Actually, I don't think that's quite true.

According the way the ballot is written, the MOST taxpayers would put in is $425 million. Period.

I could be wrong, but after reading the executive summary and both leases, that's the way I read it. Not sure where that $800 million keeps coming from.

My theory is that KK keeps throwing it out there because he wants a downtown ballpark (probably because Union Broadcasting would benefit financially from development in the area). Considering that a new football stadium would run about $400 - 500 million, and a baseball stadium $200 -300 million, throwing out that $800 million figure makes it look as though two new stadiums could be had for the prices of refurbishing.

Again, I'm not 100% sure (I'm actually going to talk with some folks tomorrow about this whole thing ... folks with intimate knowledge of the issue) but the $800 million is not how much tax would be collected.

Also, if JaxCo can't afford to build the stadiums, how in the hell is WyCo?

And for those that don't know, Sly was the African American lawyer on the "for" side. He posts over at ChiefsCoaltion (where I have to go at work since the Planet is blocked. Nice board, actually ... not quite as crazy or balls to the wall as here, but pleasant and informative.)

MM
~~:)

CHENZ A!
02-15-2006, 11:10 PM
I just want our teams and city to get the best possible deal, if that means playing downtown then fine. Somebody's pockets are going to get fat regardless of if we renovate or build new, and I don't care whose pockets they are as long as it's a good deal for the city and our teams.

tk13
02-15-2006, 11:15 PM
I really think the biggest plus to renovating the existing buildings are how unique they are. Arrowhead and the noise factor, and just the general uniqueness of the K with the fountains and scoreboard and whatnot. There are certainly pros to just building new stadiums... better location maybe, less worry about future refurbishing... they just built the two stadiums so well the first time there's still a downside to leaving them 30 years down the road.

Guru
02-15-2006, 11:26 PM
I really think the biggest plus to renovating the existing buildings are how unique they are. Arrowhead and the noise factor, and just the general uniqueness of the K with the fountains and scoreboard and whatnot. There are certainly pros to just building new stadiums... better location maybe, less worry about future refurbishing... they just built the two stadiums so well the first time there's still a downside to leaving them 30 years down the road.

They definitely set the standard on how stadiums should be built.

BigRedChief
02-16-2006, 01:39 AM
Sly is a great guy. The couple of times I've met him I always felt comfortable with him. I don't get that with lawyers often (ever).

Yep, very down to earth. If you didn't know he was a lawyer before hand you would never guess he had that working against him.:p

BigRedChief
02-16-2006, 01:46 AM
I believe the 800 mil figure is with interest over the course of the lease. Helling was good, everyone else was just yelling over one another. A 20 min debate was not near long enough. To me, and this is purely my opinion, this deal makes no sense, to spend all this money to patch up old buildings, when we could build new ones for around what this will end up costing.

I don't want a new stadium. I love Arrowhead the way it is now.

mcan
02-16-2006, 02:54 AM
Frankly, I think that the Royals should move anywhere else. If they are sure that KC-Live and the Sprint Center are going to get people into downtown, then put the new ballpark there. Right now, the Royals just aren't going to be competitive unless they can start getting people in the seats.

If the Royals hadn't won a game all year, but THE K was around 119th and I-35, they would still put a ton of passing traffic in the seats. I'd go once a week, instead of twice a year... So would just about everybody I know.

Yeah, the stadiums are built very well, and if improvements were made, they would be really really really really cool...

But people still wouldn't show up because the damn thing is 45 minutes away from EVERYTHING. I'd rather build a shitty ballpark in a better location. The cool thing is, if we did it right, we could get a better ballpark AND a better location!

kc rush
02-16-2006, 07:50 AM
KK is a tool, but I do think the city and the team would be better off putting a ballpark downtown. I wish that they would bring in Petro for these types of discussion because he has an informed opinion and will use facts instead of bully tactics to get his points across.

KK was right about one thing, why spend so much money for something that is really a short term solution. New stadiums should last longer than refurbished old stadiums with not much more investment. If this passes, we will be discussing new stadiums in 10-15 years.

gblowfish
02-16-2006, 09:00 AM
Frankly, I think that the Royals should move anywhere else.

If they are sure that KC-Live and the Sprint Center are going to get people into downtown, then put the new ballpark there. Right now, the Royals just aren't going to be competitive unless they can start getting people in the seats.

If the Royals hadn't won a game all year, but THE K was around 119th and I-35, they would still put a ton of passing traffic in the seats. I'd go once a week, instead of twice a year... So would just about everybody I know.

Yeah, the stadiums are built very well, and if improvements were made, they would be really really really really cool...

But people still wouldn't show up because the damn thing is 45 minutes away from EVERYTHING. I'd rather build a shitty ballpark in a better location. The cool thing is, if we did it right, we could get a better ballpark AND a better location!Frankly, this kind of statement makes me insane.

Building a new ballpark downtown or in WyCo or next to your favorite Starbucks on 119th St won't change he fundamental problem with baseball...which is a lack of revenue sharing, salary floor and cap. A new baseball stadium won't change that equation no matter where we build it. It hasn't changed the baseball forturnes in Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati or Milwaukee. Won't change a thing here either.

As for you and everyone you know who live in Johnson County, the edge of the world doesn't exist at I-435 and State Line. And that's a condescending slap at my friends, who happen to live near the current ballparks.

That type of statement is why people who live in Jackson County get steamed by the JoCo types. JoCo's bitch about the stadiums, bitch about the amenities, bitch about the Missouri roads. But don't put their money where their mouth is. You're users, not contributors.

Additionally, financially JoCo's are in the best position to pay, but don't. The only execption is they agreed to help on Bi-State I to fix the train station, and that's it. One time help. Big whoop. You don't have stadiums in JoCo by design. That's why rich tight fisted people live there.

Every other county in the Metro has provided something for greater community good: Jackson County has the stadiums, Kemper, Sprint Arena and art museums. Platte County has the airport. Clay County has Worlds of Fun. Wyandotte County has the NASCAR track. What's Johnson County got? A bunch of gated communities and private golf courses.

In the last stadium Bi-State Vote, Jackson County voted yes, but the issue failed because Johnson County voted no. Now Jackson County is going to take this problem on solo, same as it ever was. And it will probably pass in April, because Jackson County sees the economic benefit of keeping the sports complex right where it is, in Jackson County.

So don't expect anything for the greater public good to come to your tight fisted neighborhood anytime soon. Your neighbors don't want the riff raff.

Just my humble opinion.

Bowser
02-16-2006, 09:04 AM
Blowfish nailed it.

kc rush
02-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Frankly, this kind of statement makes me insane.

Building a new ballpark downtown or in WyCo or next to your favorite Starbucks on 119th St won't change he fundamental problem with baseball...which is a lack of revenue sharing, salary floor and cap. A new baseball stadium won't change that equation no matter where we build it. It hasn't changed the baseball forturnes in Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati or Milwaukee. Won't change a thing here either.

As for you and everyone you know who live in Johnson County, the edge of the world doesn't exist at I-435 and State Line. And that's a condescending slap at my friends, who happen to live near the current ballparks.

That type of statement is why people who live in Jackson County get steamed by the JoCo types. JoCo's bitch about the stadiums, bitch about the amenities, bitch about the Missouri roads. But don't put their money where their mouth is. You're users, not contributors.

Additionally, financially JoCo's are in the best position to pay, but don't. The only execption is they agreed to help on Bi-State I to fix the train station, and that's it. One time help. Big whoop. You don't have stadiums in JoCo by design. That's why rich tight fisted people live there.

Every other county in the Metro has provided something for greater community good: Jackson County has the stadiums, Kemper, Sprint Arena and art museums. Platte County has the airport. Clay County has Worlds of Fun. Wyandotte County has the NASCAR track. What's Johnson County got? A bunch of gated communities and private golf courses.

In the last stadium Bi-State Vote, Jackson County voted yes, but the issue failed because Johnson County voted no. Now Jackson County is going to take this problem on solo, same as it ever was. And it will probably pass in April, because Jackson County sees the economic benefit of keeping the sports complex right where it is, in Jackson County.

So don't expect anything for the greater public good to come to your tight fisted neighborhood anytime soon. Your neighbors don't want the riff raff.

Just my humble opinion.

Downtown is the only place where it makes sense to build new. You are right that baseball is fundamentally screwed up without a cap and real revenue sharing; however a downtown park would increase ďwalk-upĒ traffic to the games. The increased attendance would help the Royals. Iím also sure that there will be more downtown businesses willing to buy suites (the real revenue generator) if they can easily transport clients to the games and entertain in a central location.

This should be a Bi-State issue, but you canít blame JOCO for this not being the case. The last attempt at a Bi-State issue was pure crap and that is why no-one outside of Jackson County (the sole beneficiary) voted for it. It was convoluted, and there was no accountability for the funds, plus, Jackson Co has proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted with public funds. Put in a Bi-State plan that shows benefit and accountability (even if it is for just renovating the existing stadiums) and Iíll bet it will pass.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 10:50 AM
I love how Keitzman is coming unravelled.

First the Royals decide to support the rennovation and say they don't want to move downtown.

Then yesterday the Downtown Council basically comes out and says they will vote to back the rennovation proposal.

Downtown baseball in KC is a DEAD ISSUE with everyone who matter. But KK just can't shut up about it.

If anybody listening to him still believe he has anything other than his OWN interests in mind, they're utterly naive...

Bowser
02-16-2006, 10:53 AM
Didn't somebody come up with some evidence of Keitzman, if not all the biggies at 810, buying into a bunch of land and deserted buildings downtown? Or was that all just rumors and specualtion?

Cochise
02-16-2006, 10:54 AM
If the Royals hadn't won a game all year, but THE K was around 119th and I-35, they would still put a ton of passing traffic in the seats. I'd go once a week, instead of twice a year... So would just about everybody I know.

But people still wouldn't show up because the damn thing is 45 minutes away from EVERYTHING. I'd rather build a shitty ballpark in a better location. The cool thing is, if we did it right, we could get a better ballpark AND a better location!

I think that in that situation you'd lose a lot of people from the northland who are already doing what you say you would do - just randomly go to games.

I know that if my travel to and from the stadium went from 10-15 minutes to 45 minutes (such as if it were at 119th and 35) I would be much less likely to go. I would probably only go once or twice a year. I don't think the attendance boost over the long term would materialize. There are as many people in Liberty/Independence/Raytown/Lee's Summit/North KC/Gladstone who are going as there would be in Overland Park and Olathe.

There's no need to move the stadium. The long-term fix for the Royals is for baseball to level it's playing field, not for us to play king of the hill over stadiums.

Cochise
02-16-2006, 10:56 AM
Didn't somebody come up with some evidence of Keitzman, if not all the biggies at 810, buying into a bunch of land and deserted buildings downtown? Or was that all just rumors and specualtion?

I've heard that on this board a million times, and usually ask the same question, but have never seen it answered.

I don't like KK any more than the rest of you, but I've never seen anyone produce any proof of this.

Bowser
02-16-2006, 10:58 AM
I've heard that on this board a million times, and usually ask the same question, but have never seen it answered.

I don't like KK any more than the rest of you, but I've never seen anyone produce any proof of this.

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought, too. I've heard it mentioned randomly enough to wonder if it were true. If it ever does come out to be true, Keitzman would lose his last shard of respectability.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 11:00 AM
I've heard that on this board a million times, and usually ask the same question, but have never seen it answered.

I don't like KK any more than the rest of you, but I've never seen anyone produce any proof of this.

I can't find it. Somebody produced some evidence that he's invested in some residential property (lofts I think) downtown.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 11:01 AM
And also, I'm not suggesting I have any proof.

It's just OBVIOUS from listening to him that he has a personal stake in this. He sounds desperate.

Bowser
02-16-2006, 11:02 AM
I can't find it. Somebody produced some evidence that he's invested in some residential property (lofts I think) downtown.

I keep thinking that he got into land around what will be the Sprint Center, and some condemned buildings. I couldn't tell you when or where I saw that....

Bowser
02-16-2006, 11:03 AM
And also, I'm not suggesting I have any proof.

It's just OBVIOUS from listening to him that he has a personal stake in this. He sounds desperate.

That's no shit. His crusade has gotten way past annoying.

Cochise
02-16-2006, 11:04 AM
And also, I'm not suggesting I have any proof.

It's just OBVIOUS from listening to him that he has a personal stake in this. He sounds desperate.

I admit it's hard to come up with a reason why with the city seemingly getting its act together on putting more revenue producers into Kauffman Stadium, KK still is opposed.

I thought the objective of his movement was to strengthen baseball in Kansas City and make sure the Royals were here to stay, not purely to erect a new stadium downtown.

There are problems with the plan, like there are with all others - but I am more than willing to vote for an imperfect plan simply because the likelihood of us getting a good one is so low, and an imperfect or too-expensive one is better than nothing.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 11:12 AM
I admit it's hard to come up with a reason why with the city seemingly getting its act together on putting more revenue producers into Kauffman Stadium, KK still is opposed.

I thought the objective of his movement was to strengthen baseball in Kansas City and make sure the Royals were here to stay, not purely to erect a new stadium downtown.

There are problems with the plan, like there are with all others - but I am more than willing to vote for an imperfect plan simply because the likelihood of us getting a good one is so low, and an imperfect or too-expensive one is better than nothing.

I think one reason he is so opposed is because he's against anything the Chiefs are for.

I think getting people on-board for downtown baseball is great idea to him because it puts the Chiefs in a bind, and he's all for anything that messes with Carl Peterson.

The Royals are the one entity that could potentially get in the Chiefs way. With them on board for the rennovation proposal, Keitzman's bargaining chip is gone. I just don't think he can deal with it.

kpic
02-16-2006, 11:16 AM
I cannot comment too much on any of this as I am not local to your area, when I was in KC a few years ago for a Chiefs game I went from KCI to the stadiums and it did not seem like it was 45 min? (I did not time the route or anything though) maybe someone can clarify how long it takes? Or am I thinking a of completely different area?

Maybe a 45 min. ride is considered long in KC but here (N.J.) my drive to work takes over an hour and that is considered somewhat normal here.

Cochise
02-16-2006, 11:29 AM
By the way, if the thought was to move the Stadiums close to the fastest growing area of the City wouldn't that put the Royals' new home in the vicinity of I-29 and Barry, near the airport?

Phobia
02-16-2006, 11:29 AM
You gotta be poking to stretch the KCI to stadiums ride into 45 minutes. I make it to the airport in 40 minutes and I live 15 minutes southeast of the stadiums.

Cochise
02-16-2006, 11:31 AM
Maybe in Chiefs' game traffic it's 45 minutes from KCI to the stadiums. If it's clear it's more like 15-20.

Wile_E_Coyote
02-16-2006, 11:34 AM
how is getting dowtown & finding a place to park faster than getting to the Sports complex

kpic
02-16-2006, 11:40 AM
Thanks, that is what I was thinking I seemed to recall that I could get just about anywhere within\around KC in 30 minutes or so. I was wondering that when earlier in the thread 45 min. was mentioned.

BTW that is one of the things I loved about being out there, Phila & NY are so much larger it takes hours to get through, not to mention the complete lack of traffic (compared with here). Ahhh the W-I-D-E open roads!

mcan
02-16-2006, 12:23 PM
I'm not trying to get into a class issue... I'm certainly not trying to knock the people who are already going... Here's what I'm trying to figure out though...

How come our baseball team has the second worst attendance in the American League?

And it's not a LITTLE descrepancy either. It's HUGE. The 3rd worst attendance has 30% more than we do. Yeah, when we're winning 15 games in a row we make up that 30% but then we are THIRD WORST! Ticket prices are extrememly low, and people still don't go!

It's clear that we've got some serious issues here... I argue that we aren't getting crappy attendance because we're a bad team. We're a bad team because we get crappy attendance.

mcan
02-16-2006, 12:25 PM
Thanks, that is what I was thinking I seemed to recall that I could get just about anywhere within\around KC in 30 minutes or so. I was wondering that when earlier in the thread 45 min. was mentioned.

BTW that is one of the things I loved about being out there, Phila & NY are so much larger it takes hours to get through, not to mention the complete lack of traffic (compared with here). Ahhh the W-I-D-E open roads!


45 minutes is just my time from Olathe to a parking spot in the stadium. I really don't mind, and if traffic is good I can get there in about 30 minutes.

kc rush
02-16-2006, 12:37 PM
KK has said on-air that he has made investments downtown. He has mentioned in response to all of the people who have complained that Ė if he is such a big proponent of downtown, why arenít the 810 studios there. Would he benefit from having the stadium downtown? Yes. Is he going to benefit from having investments there anyway? Yes, with all of the growth going on, Iím sure he will have a nice ROI. BTW Ė I think he has stock in the Western Auto lofts.

Iíve said it before; I think that downtown stadium proponents would be better off having Petro as their mouthpiece just because of KKís antics.

Either way, if I had my choice between spending $275 mil (or whatever the number is) to refurbish Kaufman and add 15 years to the current lease, or spend $350 mil to build new downtown with a 30+ year lease, I say go new. A downtown stadium would be the better return on investment for the city. I guess it doesnít matter though, because that isnít an option with this coming election.

Cochise
02-16-2006, 12:45 PM
How come our baseball team has the second worst attendance in the American League?

Last year someone posted a link showing that the Royals were in the middle of the pack in baseball, in terms of per-capita local revenue. the royals were getting say $20 on average, per person in the metro area, the tops in the league was like $50, and the lowest around $10.

I would like to see some numbers like that again, it was an interesting article. It was from some basball e-zine, but I can't remember which.

mcan
02-16-2006, 01:00 PM
Last year someone posted a link showing that the Royals were in the middle of the pack in baseball, in terms of per-capita local revenue. the royals were getting say $20 on average, per person in the metro area, the tops in the league was like $50, and the lowest around $10.

I would like to see some numbers like that again, it was an interesting article. It was from some basball e-zine, but I can't remember which.


those numbers might be true, but that doesn't at all tell the story. Maybe we are a small market town, but that shouldn't mean that we can't strive to fill the seats... The fact is, the Royals put very few people in the seats compared to ALL THE MARKETS in the American League except one...

This is from last year:

Cochise
02-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Agreed, totally - I went to about 5 games last year, I don't know where that puts me on the 'doing your part' scale but we should definitely try to do our part to overcome the huge disadvantage the Royals have in market size.

beavis
02-16-2006, 02:34 PM
I can't find it. Somebody produced some evidence that he's invested in some residential property (lofts I think) downtown.
I've always heard it's the Western Auto lofts. But, I've got no proof of it.

beavis
02-16-2006, 02:36 PM
It's just OBVIOUS from listening to him that he has a personal stake in this. He sounds desperate.
It is bizzare how much he hypes it. He's a d-bag anyway, but his stadium fixation is the main reason I've quit listening to 810. There is only so much a person can take.

keg in kc
02-16-2006, 02:37 PM
I think the downtown stadium is a good idea despite kietzman. He does more harm than good for the cause, however, the self-serving, self-aggrandizing f*ck.

And don't think for a second that personal financial and political gains don't fuel the other side, too. Self-interest abounds...

Cochise
02-16-2006, 02:42 PM
I think the downtown stadium is a good idea despite kietzman. He does more harm than good for the cause, however.

I don't think it would be a bad idea at all to have a downtown ballpark. If it is $375 million to fix up the K or $400 million for a brand new downtown stadium, I say build the new one.

If the costs are close, then why not have it downtown for the benefits to the downtown area? But if they aren't close, there's no pressing need to replace the K.

keg in kc
02-16-2006, 02:45 PM
My guess is what will happen, if the K is fixed up, is that we'll spend $400 million now, and then fifteen years from now end up spending another billion for a completely new stadium. Sort of like what happened with Kemper, but on a larger scale.

kc rush
02-16-2006, 03:04 PM
I think the downtown stadium is a good idea despite kietzman. He does more harm than good for the cause, however, the self-serving, self-aggrandizing f*ck.

And don't think for a second that personal financial and political gains don't fuel the other side, too. Self-interest abounds...

Agreed

kc rush
02-16-2006, 03:06 PM
My guess is what will happen, if the K is fixed up, is that we'll spend $400 million now, and then fifteen years from now end up spending another billion for a completely new stadium. Sort of like what happened with Kemper, but on a larger scale.


Post #21. We are on the same page.

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 05:08 PM
Frankly, this kind of statement makes me insane.

Building a new ballpark downtown or in WyCo or next to your favorite Starbucks on 119th St won't change he fundamental problem with baseball...which is a lack of revenue sharing, salary floor and cap. A new baseball stadium won't change that equation no matter where we build it. It hasn't changed the baseball forturnes in Denver, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati or Milwaukee. Won't change a thing here either.

As for you and everyone you know who live in Johnson County, the edge of the world doesn't exist at I-435 and State Line. And that's a condescending slap at my friends, who happen to live near the current ballparks.

That type of statement is why people who live in Jackson County get steamed by the JoCo types. JoCo's bitch about the stadiums, bitch about the amenities, bitch about the Missouri roads. But don't put their money where their mouth is. You're users, not contributors.

Additionally, financially JoCo's are in the best position to pay, but don't. The only execption is they agreed to help on Bi-State I to fix the train station, and that's it. One time help. Big whoop. You don't have stadiums in JoCo by design. That's why rich tight fisted people live there.

Every other county in the Metro has provided something for greater community good: Jackson County has the stadiums, Kemper, Sprint Arena and art museums. Platte County has the airport. Clay County has Worlds of Fun. Wyandotte County has the NASCAR track. What's Johnson County got? A bunch of gated communities and private golf courses.

In the last stadium Bi-State Vote, Jackson County voted yes, but the issue failed because Johnson County voted no. Now Jackson County is going to take this problem on solo, same as it ever was. And it will probably pass in April, because Jackson County sees the economic benefit of keeping the sports complex right where it is, in Jackson County.

So don't expect anything for the greater public good to come to your tight fisted neighborhood anytime soon. Your neighbors don't want the riff raff.

Just my humble opinion.

First off, not everyone that lives in JC is rich. You strike me as a very ignorant and prejudice person. People like me who go to 8-12 Royals games and all Chiefs games(excluding preseason) pay taxes in Jackson everytime I buy a ticket, concession, parking, etc. One thing that you forgot to mention about the ballparks that were built in Denver, Pitt, Cinc., and Mil, is that they all got All-Star games which bring the host city alot of revenue, even if it doesn't help their teams win more games.

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 05:11 PM
And don't think for a second that personal financial and political gains don't fuel the other side, too. Self-interest abounds...

finally someone with some sense.

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 05:16 PM
I love how Keitzman is coming unravelled.

First the Royals decide to support the rennovation and say they don't want to move downtown.

Then yesterday the Downtown Council basically comes out and says they will vote to back the rennovation proposal.

Downtown baseball in KC is a DEAD ISSUE with everyone who matter. But KK just can't shut up about it.

If anybody listening to him still believe he has anything other than his OWN interests in mind, they're utterly naive...

The Royals have never said that they "don't want to move downtown", in fact they said it would be a good idea. This is just not on the table presently.

DomerNKC
02-16-2006, 05:58 PM
The Royals have never said that they "don't want to move downtown", in fact they said it would be a good idea. This is just not on the table presently.do they have to call you personally to tell you that this is what they want? they are gonna pay for part of this plan ($25 million). they are gonna extend their lease to 2031. i mean really, they have not come right out and said that they are not gonna play in my back yard either but i see that they have put their money where their mouth is on this issue.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 06:01 PM
The Royals have never said that they "don't want to move downtown", in fact they said it would be a good idea. This is just not on the table presently.

The Royals have said the PREFER to rennovate the K. Same fuggin difference.

DomerNKC
02-16-2006, 06:02 PM
those numbers might be true, but that doesn't at all tell the story. Maybe we are a small market town, but that shouldn't mean that we can't strive to fill the seats... The fact is, the Royals put very few people in the seats compared to ALL THE MARKETS in the American League except one...

This is from last year:check out the numbers. if our attendance figures improved, is that gonna even cut in half the difference in the tv and radio rights?

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 06:02 PM
I don't think it would be a bad idea at all to have a downtown ballpark. If it is $375 million to fix up the K or $400 million for a brand new downtown stadium, I say build the new one.

If the costs are close, then why not have it downtown for the benefits to the downtown area? But if they aren't close, there's no pressing need to replace the K.

I agree, if the costs are close they should spring for a new stadium. Rennovating now means rennovating again repeatedly in the future, just like Keg said.

However, for the Royals, it isn't close. They know that their best chance to get an upgrade is to attach themselves to the Chiefs...

And THAT is what really burns KK more than anything else.

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 06:05 PM
do they have to call you personally to tell you that this is what they want? they are gonna pay for part of this plan ($25 million). they are gonna extend their lease to 2031. i mean really, they have not come right out and said that they are not gonna play in my back yard either but i see that they have put their money where their mouth is on this issue.

No, they don't need to call me pesonally, but a statement regarding the negatives of a new stadium in the paper or on TV or radio would due. Did they ever say publicly that playing in your back yard was a good idea? The fact that there are some people that think this bogus deal will keep them here for 25 yrs is comical, we will no doubt default on a lease of that length(we are in yr 16 of a 25 yr lease that we signed in 1990).

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 06:09 PM
I think the downtown stadium is a good idea despite kietzman. He does more harm than good for the cause, however, the self-serving, self-aggrandizing f*ck.

And don't think for a second that personal financial and political gains don't fuel the other side, too. Self-interest abounds...

Exactly on all counts.

redbrian
02-16-2006, 06:10 PM
Frankly, I think that the Royals should move anywhere else. If they are sure that KC-Live and the Sprint Center are going to get people into downtown, then put the new ballpark there. Right now, the Royals just aren't going to be competitive unless they can start getting people in the seats.

If the Royals hadn't won a game all year, but THE K was around 119th and I-35, they would still put a ton of passing traffic in the seats. I'd go once a week, instead of twice a year... So would just about everybody I know.

Yeah, the stadiums are built very well, and if improvements were made, they would be really really really really cool...

But people still wouldn't show up because the damn thing is 45 minutes away from EVERYTHING. I'd rather build a shitty ballpark in a better location. The cool thing is, if we did it right, we could get a better ballpark AND a better location!

Hell I'm only 15min from Truman, downtown is only 5 to 10 away.
The only thing which will get the butts in the seats and keep them there is a winning club.

The only thing which will produce a winning club is an overhaul of the system.

There is going to be way to much to do downtown to put butts in the stadium for 3plus hours watching a suck ass game.

DomerNKC
02-16-2006, 06:11 PM
No, they don't need to call me pesonally, but a statement regarding the negatives of a new stadium in the paper or on TV or radio would due. Did they ever say publicly that playing in your back yard was a good idea? The fact that there are some people that think this bogus deal will keep them here for 25 yrs is comical, we will no doubt default on a lease of that length(we are in yr 16 of a 25 yr lease that we signed in 1990).and we are defaulting on that lease right now, that is why we are redoing it. IF we do what we say we will do, the impetus is on us you might notice, they are contractually bound to stay here for 25 years. funny how if you cant understand things they are both bogus and comical. when entering a legal contract, if you dont hold up your end of the deal, you will pay for it.

htismaqe
02-16-2006, 06:14 PM
No, they don't need to call me pesonally, but a statement regarding the negatives of a new stadium in the paper or on TV or radio would due. Did they ever say publicly that playing in your back yard was a good idea? The fact that there are some people that think this bogus deal will keep them here for 25 yrs is comical, we will no doubt default on a lease of that length(we are in yr 16 of a 25 yr lease that we signed in 1990).

What the hell does that have to do with the Royals being on-board with the rennovation project?

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 08:20 PM
and we are defaulting on that lease right now, that is why we are redoing it. IF we do what we say we will do, the impetus is on us you might notice, they are contractually bound to stay here for 25 years. funny how if you cant understand things they are both bogus and comical. when entering a legal contract, if you dont hold up your end of the deal, you will pay for it.

I guess I'm not sure what it is you think I don't understand. The reason why I brought up the fact that we are in yr 16 of 25 that we signed in '90 is to show how we've screwed this up before. I think it would be nice to have downtown baseball, but don't really care all that much, as I still love to go out to the K but believe this to be a bad deal. We would just be putting too much money into renovating old buildings and that doesn't seem smart to me. Also, why is it so necessary to sign this particular deal at a time when there is absolutely no threat of either team going anywhere? I'm not going to stop going out to the park, or stop being a fan regardless of what happens though.

CHENZ A!
02-16-2006, 08:22 PM
What the hell does that have to do with the Royals being on-board with the rennovation project?

absolutely nothing, has everything to do with the misconception that they don't want downtown baseball.

mcan
02-16-2006, 10:40 PM
check out the numbers. if our attendance figures improved, is that gonna even cut in half the difference in the tv and radio rights?


Nope, there would still be that disadvantage (of living in a small market where the TV rights we get pale in comparison to the TV rights New York, Boston, etc... get).

BUT, that portion of the pie is at least partially cut up with revenue sharing. I believe it's 30% of the MLB TV pie gets shared equally among all the teams. Yeah, NY gets a bunch more than the Royals, but that's a crappy excuse to not try and fill up YOUR stadium and make money on your own...

Ultra Peanut
02-16-2006, 11:22 PM
Why no pinch?