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rockchalkgirl
02-17-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm thinking about putting a security system in the house I am buying. Anyone have any experience with SecureNet? The installation is significantly cheaper than the other company I contacted, but I'm wondering if it's a "get what you pay for" sort of thing.

Iowanian
02-17-2006, 10:41 AM
Sorry....I rely on a different company

Remington-Mossburg-Browning-Rueger and Associates.

foxman
02-17-2006, 10:44 AM
We use ADT, had it installed during the build. Probably not the best, maybe not the cheapest....I was sold with them at the time.

kepp
02-17-2006, 10:49 AM
I have an Ademco system and it works fine...don't know anything about SecureNet. I also use Mr. Remington for backup. I was told by a neighbor who is a police officer that paying for alarm monitoring wasn't really worth it when it comes to intruders (it maybe okay for fires though) because it takes a while for someone to get there and, if the noise of the alarm doesn't scare the person off, you'll be in trouble before the police get there...thus the backup.

MOhillbilly
02-17-2006, 10:49 AM
when i got a bulldog my house quit being burglarised.

vailpass
02-17-2006, 10:49 AM
We have ADT. NO significant complaints other than that they will charge you up the @SS for evry little thing they do.

In hindsight I would have gone with the security sytem Big Daddy has. Apparently it works extremely well as long as you feed it and take it for walks.

thebrad84
02-17-2006, 11:29 AM
When it comes to security alarms, it really depends on what you are wanting it for. Are you wanting it to protect your house while you aren't home or is it for "peace of mind" while you are sleeping. I'm a criminal justice major at Washburn University, and in the past I took a class called Crime Prevention. According to my teacher, who specializes in Crime Prevention, and works for the Overland Park Police Deptarment, he thinks alarms are a waste of money, and will actually end up costing you a lot more with false alarms, since most cities will charge you after a certain number of false alarms...and those charges can be up to $100 a pop.

Basically, what he said was this...if you travel a lot and want something to be looking over your house while you are gone, alarms are alright, but you must keep in mind that there is usually a 10 to 15 minute response time delay before an officer actually shows up. That is a lot more time than your average home burglar would take to grab whatever he's wanting, especially if your alarm isn't silent and tips the burglar off that he's set it off. Remember, most burglars "stake" out their target before they go in, so they will know if someone is home or not. If your alarm is on, but they know you aren't home, they know they have a good 5 mins to rummage through your house and still have enough time to run away before any sign of a cop.

Now, if you don't travel, and you simply want it for "peace of mind" while you're sleeping, you're basically just wasting $100's of dollars on the install and monthly fee that you could get what your really want by getting battery alarms like this http://www.firstalertalarm.com/
My teacher said that if you go through an alarm company, when their alarm is activated, they give you a 1 minute delay before they call you (1 minute to deactivate your alarm incase it was an accident) That's one minute you would just sit there in your house scared half to death because you think someones broken in to your house. You can't call 911 yourself, because security systems are designed to freeze your phone line so that they can call you after that minute is up. Then they have to confirm with the resident that the alarm is not false, and then they alert the police department. So, basically, after the alarm has gone off, there is about a 2-3 minute delay before the police are actually notified, thus making it 12 to 18 minutes before a police officer actually arrives.

Basically, he said you are much better off using something like those first alert alarm things (which is what I use on my apartment door and windows), or a security system that doesn't freeze your phone line, but simply just alerts you of an intruder, if you are using it for a "peace of mind" application. That way the minute the alarm is activated, you can call 911 yourself and save yourself about 2-3 minutes from that delay.

Basically, if you talked to my former teacher about security systems, he'd tell you to spend your money elsewhere (i.e better dead bolts on your front door, break-proof windows on the lower floor, etc.), because you'd just be wasting your money with the security system. Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, just ask.

htismaqe
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
You can significantly cut down on intrusions just by putting the "protected by ADT" stickers on your doors...

I've read several studies that an alarm is not a deterrent for someone who has they're mind made up that they're breaking in (as thebrad84 mentioned) but the PRESENCE of an alarm will deter all but the most determined criminals...

Iowanian
02-17-2006, 11:40 AM
Put a "beware of vicious dog" sign up right above those ADT stickers.

thebrad84
02-17-2006, 11:42 AM
You can significantly cut down on intrusions just by putting the "protected by ADT" stickers on your doors...

I've read several studies that an alarm is not a deterrent for someone who has they're mind made up that they're breaking in (as thebrad84 mentioned) but the PRESENCE of an alarm will deter all but the most determined criminals...

Yep, I completely forgot to mention that. My teacher (sorry I keep saying that, but i dont want you to think this is just coming from some college student "that doesn't know anything") said that if you have a friend, neighbor, or family member that has ADT or some other security system, to ask them to call their provider and send them another sticker or sign "because theirs was stolen or lost" and the company should send them one pretty quickly. Then just take that sign in put it up near your front door, and it will deter most burglars away. However, like I already said, if the burglar has been watching you and knows you aren't home at certain times during the day or on vacation, he's probably not going to be too worried about that alarm if he really wants something from your home.

vailpass
02-17-2006, 12:03 PM
However, like I already said, if the burglar has been watching you and knows you aren't home at certain times during the day or on vacation, he's probably not going to be too worried about that alarm if he really wants something from your home.


You make some good points. I would add that in addition to intrusion alert I have a home security system because:

1)It is linked to my sprinkler system. If there is ever a fire in my home the alarm will awaken us, the sprinklers/foamers will be triggered, and the fire department will be called automatically.

2)Homeowners insurance gives me a discount because I have the system that pretty much pays for the monthly fee.

rockchalkgirl
02-17-2006, 12:19 PM
Thanks, guys. For me, it is both that I want security while I'm away and a warning at night. I will likely get a dog as well. The first guy I talked to with this company seemed to be pretty upfront, but the guy I got when I called back was more high-pressure. Not enough for me to dump the idea, but enough for me to ask that the owner call me back.

Nzoner
02-17-2006, 12:38 PM
My teacher said that if you go through an alarm company, when their alarm is activated, they give you a 1 minute delay before they call you (1 minute to deactivate your alarm incase it was an accident) That's one minute you would just sit there in your house scared half to death because you think someones broken in to your house. You can't call 911 yourself, because security systems are designed to freeze your phone line so that they can call you after that minute is up."

Our alarm company calls whether we deactivate the system or not,as for the phone line freeezing,we have multiple lines so that is not a problem.

As also stated we get a decent discount on Homeowners for having it.

HC_Chief
02-17-2006, 12:41 PM
I've been happy with Brinks Security.

Infidel Goat
02-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Put a "beware of vicious dog" sign up right above those ADT stickers.

I find that my "Dog contained by Invisible Fence" sign keeps a lot of people from even stepping foot on my property--let alone getting close to my house.

--Infidel Goat

Rain Man
02-17-2006, 01:58 PM
Yep, I completely forgot to mention that. My teacher (sorry I keep saying that, but i dont want you to think this is just coming from some college student "that doesn't know anything") said that if you have a friend, neighbor, or family member that has ADT or some other security system, to ask them to call their provider and send them another sticker or sign "because theirs was stolen or lost" and the company should send them one pretty quickly. Then just take that sign in put it up near your front door, and it will deter most burglars away. However, like I already said, if the burglar has been watching you and knows you aren't home at certain times during the day or on vacation, he's probably not going to be too worried about that alarm if he really wants something from your home.

What kind of sick criminal would steal a person's security system sticker or sign?

redbrian
02-17-2006, 01:58 PM
Let me throw my two cents in here as I happen to work for ADT (commercial sales as opposed to residential).

First off you get what you pay for, if the install cost is next to nothing and your monthly monitoring is next to nothing what you have is next to nothing.

A hardwired system is far superior to a wireless system; however it is more costly in an existing building to install.

As far as false alarms, the vast majority are caused by the home owner.

Having a neighbor get you a sign is not a good idea as one it will piss me off and if I know where you live I will take it down in the middle of the night and leave a burning pile of poo on your stoop. On the serious side it also leaves you liable for a law suit, as you are claiming a false pretense of protection for anyone staying at or visiting your house.

Donít know where you live but if your in the KC area, the KC office has the top installers in the nation. They are very professional and you will not have a problem with the equipment or install (canít say that about all ADT offices).

ps If you would like to know what the crime rate index for your area is just send me your zip and I'll run it Monday when I'm in the office.

Rain Man
02-17-2006, 02:02 PM
You make some good points. I would add that in addition to intrusion alert I have a home security system because:

1)It is linked to my sprinkler system. If there is ever a fire in my home the alarm will awaken us, the sprinklers/foamers will be triggered, and the fire department will be called automatically.

2)Homeowners insurance gives me a discount because I have the system that pretty much pays for the monthly fee.


Two comments.

1. You have a sprinkler system in your home? Is that common in new homes nowadays, or was that a special order?

2. It would be really mean to hook someone's sprinkler system to a gasoline tank instead of water.

redbrian
02-17-2006, 02:05 PM
Yep, I completely forgot to mention that. My teacher (sorry I keep saying that, but i dont want you to think this is just coming from some college student "that doesn't know anything") said that if you have a friend, neighbor, or family member that has ADT or some other security system, to ask them to call their provider and send them another sticker or sign "because theirs was stolen or lost" and the company should send them one pretty quickly. Then just take that sign in put it up near your front door, and it will deter most burglars away. However, like I already said, if the burglar has been watching you and knows you aren't home at certain times during the day or on vacation, he's probably not going to be too worried about that alarm if he really wants something from your home.

Your teacher for the most part is a boob.

Criminals for the most part do not stake out houses, they are criminals for a very good reason, they are fu@king lazy and don't want to work.

Alarm systems on there own deter criminal activity, there is what is called the halo effect in the security industry. Someone gets robbed and gets an alarm system, some of his neighbors follow suit, around this cluster there is a protective halo which will have a lower instance of crime due to the precived protection supplied by the alarm systems.

redbrian
02-17-2006, 02:10 PM
Two comments.

1. You have a sprinkler system in your home? Is that common in new homes nowadays, or was that a special order?

2. It would be really mean to hook someone's sprinkler system to a gasoline tank instead of water.

More and more communities are requiring fire sprinklers to be installed in new homes.

Phoenix Arizona was one of the first to do this and produced a ten year study on the benefits.

It is very important to have your fire sprinkler monitored if you have one. The sprinkler system is designed to provide 15 min of safety for the occupants to get out of the building. A side benefit is that in the vast majority of times it also completely extinguishes the fire. The downside however is if you are not there and the water flowing from the head will cause more damage than the fire may have.

Rain Man
02-17-2006, 02:12 PM
ps If you would like to know what the crime rate index for your area is just send me your zip and I'll run it Monday when I'm in the office.


Just FYI, where do you get crime data by Zip Code? Is it only for the KC area, or does your source cover the whole country?

(I'm always looking for good local data sources.)

Nelson Muntz
02-17-2006, 02:15 PM
Two comments.

1. You have a sprinkler system in your home? Is that common in new homes nowadays, or was that a special order?

2. It would be really mean to hook someone's sprinkler system to a gasoline tank instead of water.


Shhh!!!! Don't let out Frazod's secret. Its his diabolical scheme to rid the world of donks fans.

redbrian
02-17-2006, 02:17 PM
Just FYI, where do you get crime data by Zip Code? Is it only for the KC area, or does your source cover the whole country?

(I'm always looking for good local data sources.)

ADT subscribes to a service which has the current info, I don't know who it is but could find out for you.

I can input any zip and get a color map with the index breaking down crime by several categories and compares that against the national avg.

We are currently updating our computer system so I currently cannot access it from my home office.

Rain Man
02-17-2006, 02:30 PM
ADT subscribes to a service which has the current info, I don't know who it is but could find out for you.

I can input any zip and get a color map with the index breaking down crime by several categories and compares that against the national avg.

We are currently updating our computer system so I currently cannot access it from my home office.

I would actually be very interested in finding out. Thanks.

vailpass
02-17-2006, 02:37 PM
Two comments.

1. You have a sprinkler system in your home? Is that common in new homes nowadays, or was that a special order?

2. It would be really mean to hook someone's sprinkler system to a gasoline tank instead of water.

1)I live in Phoenix and fire sprinklers are code for new builds. Probably because this tinderbox bastard of a town is so dry the entire Valley could burn down ala The Great Chicago Fire.

2) ROFL You are capable of evil thoughts ROFL

kepp
02-17-2006, 02:38 PM
On the serious side it also leaves you liable for a law suit, as you are claiming a false pretense of protection for anyone staying at or visiting your house.

Do you have anything (legislation, court cases, etc) to back this up? I'm not a legal expert or anything and I'm not saying its BS, but it just sounds like a sales tactic to me.

Having a neighbor get you a sign is not a good idea as one it will piss me off and if I know where you live I will take it down in the middle of the night and leave a burning pile of poo on your stoop.

On the serious side, that would leave you liable for a law suit...and someone might just go Cheney on you :p

redbrian
02-17-2006, 02:51 PM
I would actually be very interested in finding out. Thanks.

Here is the link to the company suppling the info.

http://www.crimeindex.com/

redbrian
02-17-2006, 02:54 PM
Do you have anything (legislation, court cases, etc) to back this up? I'm not a legal expert or anything and I'm not saying its BS, but it just sounds like a sales tactic to me.



On the serious side, that would leave you liable for a law suit...and someone might just go Cheney on you :p

Can not quote you case study, but we were just kicking this around the other day in the office with one of our vendors.

The following are all things which from a commercial standpoint (so I'm making an assumption also applies to a residence) will leave you on the hook if a problem arises.

1) Fake security cameras
2) False signs
3) Speakers and mikes on security cameras

sedated
02-17-2006, 02:57 PM
rockchalkgirl, it sounds like what you need is a man to make you feel secure at night.




...anyone got any suggestions?

vailpass
02-17-2006, 03:02 PM
Can not quote you case study, but we were just kicking this around the other day in the office with one of our vendors.

The following are all things which from a commercial standpoint (so I'm making an assumption also applies to a residence) will leave you on the hook if a problem arises.

1) Fake security cameras
2) False signs
3) Speakers and mikes on security cameras

I would ask one of the Counselors who requent the Planet for clarification here. Once injury and cause have been determined Liability comes down to the determination of specific duties owed to the injured party.

Duties owed by a private party at their place of residence are usually much lessn than those owed by a public entity.

A public entity with false representations of security would be wrongfully inducing members of the public to believe they were protected by the imaginary devices.
A private party with false security representations would not be pretending to protect the public, only themselves.

JBucc
02-17-2006, 03:04 PM
I remember my mom telling me a story about when a teenager tried to break though the window of their house when she was home by herself, well they bred Boston Terriers, which are not very big at all, but one of them started barking and when the guy saw it he ran away and started screaming "it's a pit! it's a pit!". Meaning he thought it was a Pit Bull. I'm not saying get a Boston Terrrier to defend you, but if you like dogs, most thieves don't have guns or anything and are scared to shit of dogs and they are a nice compliment to guns/fancy security systems or whatever else you have.

redbrian
02-17-2006, 03:10 PM
I would ask one of the Counselors who requent the Planet for clarification here. Once injury and cause have been determined Liability comes down to the determination of specific duties owed to the injured party.

Duties owed by a private party at their place of residence are usually much lessn than those owed by a public entity.

A public entity with false representations of security would be wrongfully inducing members of the public to believe they were protected by the imaginary devices.
A private party with false security representations would not be pretending to protect the public, only themselves.

Unless other wise stated they would also be providing false security to anyone who is on the premise (may be wrong but I don't think so).

Rain Man
02-17-2006, 03:19 PM
Here is the link to the company suppling the info.

http://www.crimeindex.com/

Interesting. I'm quite curious where they're getting this data, because I don't know of any federal sources for it, and I'm sure that they aren't gathering the data themselves.

kepp
02-17-2006, 03:23 PM
I would ask one of the Counselors who requent the Planet for clarification here. Once injury and cause have been determined Liability comes down to the determination of specific duties owed to the injured party.

Duties owed by a private party at their place of residence are usually much lessn than those owed by a public entity.

A public entity with false representations of security would be wrongfully inducing members of the public to believe they were protected by the imaginary devices.
A private party with false security representations would not be pretending to protect the public, only themselves.
That's the way I would assume it works. I can definitely see the liability being there for a commercial/public entity, but not so much for a private residence. Anyone know?

redbrian
02-17-2006, 03:26 PM
Interesting. I'm quite curious where they're getting this data, because I don't know of any federal sources for it, and I'm sure that they aren't gathering the data themselves.

I think it's a compilation from law enforcement reports, I think the FBI is one of those sources.

vailpass
02-17-2006, 03:29 PM
Unless other wise stated they would also be providing false security to anyone who is on the premise (may be wrong but I don't think so).

I see your point; it seems like it's a question of what duty is owed.
A reasonably prudent person could assume that a building open to the public would be providing protectionin the form of security devices for their customers, workers, and anyone else authorized to be on site.

That same RPP would probably not assume that a private home owner had installed security devices to protect anyone but themselves and possibly their guests.

Practicing attorneys, where are you?

redbrian
02-17-2006, 03:36 PM
I see your point; it seems like it's a question of what duty is owed.
A reasonably prudent person could assume that a building open to the public would be providing protectionin the form of security devices for their customers, workers, and anyone else authorized to be on site.

That same RPP would probably not assume that a private home owner had installed security devices to protect anyone but themselves and possibly their guests.

Practicing attorneys, where are you?

Now here is the rub, is it likely that you are going to have an overnight guest who is attacked in your home.

I would consider the risk very low, but in our litigious country itís not out of the question.

I did move into a house with an alarm system installed and a sign out front and didnít activate it, didnít turn it on.

But the highest crime in our neighborhood was illegal parking on the days the street sweeper came down the street.

HemiEd
02-17-2006, 03:41 PM
We went with ADT for burglar and Fire, no complaints.