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View Full Version : Why isn't the F-117 designated as an "A" instead of an "F"?


John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 12:59 PM
It's not a fighter and never will be. So, shouldn't it be the A-117? It is an attack aircraft, not a fighter. I don't think it even carries air to air missles, does it? I was just watching the Discovery channel and this question came to mind. :hmmm:

JBucc
02-18-2006, 01:00 PM
Because it wants to be. And if you don't like it it will bomb you.

Rain Man
02-18-2006, 01:01 PM
I could be wrong, but I think it was originally designed to serve as an air-to-air fighter. When the Soviet Union went away, there wasn't much need for stealth fighters any more, so they revised it to serve in an attack mode to get some use out of their investment.

The A planes always get gypped, because it's sexier to fund and build an F plane. In the modern world, it's all about A, and F is almost non-existent.

tyton75
02-18-2006, 01:04 PM
I could be wrong, but I think, when it was first designed.. they designated it F so that Fighter pilots would volunteer to fly it... apparently Fighter pilots would volunteer if it was designated A...

redbrian
02-18-2006, 01:37 PM
Same goes for the F105 and F-111, both were dogs as fighters but good light bombers and wild weasels.

Demonpenz
02-18-2006, 02:16 PM
the actually stands for **** you for that one

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 03:02 PM
the actually stands for **** you for that one What? :hmmm:

Spicy McHaggis
02-18-2006, 05:03 PM
The A planes always get gypped, because it's sexier to fund and build an F plane. In the modern world, it's all about A, and F is almost non-existent.

I agree, air superiority fighters are just sexier. Look at the Raptor, that thing is crazy whereas the a-10 looks like a flying jalopy.

Demonpenz
02-18-2006, 05:05 PM
i loved that propeller plane that was still used in Vietnam. That thing was a piece.

redbrian
02-18-2006, 05:11 PM
I agree, air superiority fighters are just sexier. Look at the Raptor, that thing is crazy whereas the a-10 looks like a flying jalopy.

The warthog may have been ugly but it was a mean, lean fighting maching (well maybe not lean, but it ate tanks for a snack).

Demonpenz
02-18-2006, 05:22 PM
its actually the thunderbolt II

redbrian
02-18-2006, 05:26 PM
its actually the thunderbolt II

Members of the airforce do not stick by the "official" name of a plane, for example the B-52 is known as the BUF (anyone know what that stands for?), the F-105 was known as the Thud and the A-10 is known as the warthog.

Demonpenz
02-18-2006, 05:30 PM
I know I just think its funny that Thunderbolt is the exact opposite of what you think when you see that plane. Warthog is the perfect name for it. I love the A-10 I love the story about the A-10's first air to air victory. I guess they ususally throw a token Air to Air sidewinder just in case, but in iraq a A10 came across an Iraqi helicopter and instead of using the missle the guy used the weapon he knew best, the crazy huge gun on the front. I guess it litterly cut the helicopter in half. How metal is that?

redbrian
02-18-2006, 05:33 PM
I know I just think its funny that Thunderbolt is the exact opposite of what you think when you see that plane. Warthog is the perfect name for it. I love the A-10 I love the story about the A-10's first air to air victory. I guess they ususally throw a token Air to Air sidewinder just in case, but in iraq a A10 came across an Iraqi helicopter and instead of using the missle the guy used the weapon he knew best, the crazy huge gun on the front. I guess it litterly cut the helicopter in half. How metal is that?

The vulcan canon is a very mean weapon, I was in the Air Force when the A-10 first rolled out.

We were shown a film on the plane in action at a Captains call. It does chew up metal like it's paper.

Spicy McHaggis
02-18-2006, 05:37 PM
for example the B-52 is known as the BUF (anyone know what that stands for?),

Big Ugly ****er or Big Ugly Fat **** depending on who you ask. Grandpa was career airforce so I learned all this at a ripe young age, lol.

JBucc
02-18-2006, 05:43 PM
The vulcan canon is a very mean weapon, I was in the Air Force when the A-10 first rolled out.

We were shown a film on the plane in action at a Captains call. It does chew up metal like it's paper.I would die if I could shoot one of those things

Skip Towne
02-18-2006, 05:57 PM
Members of the airforce do not stick by the "official" name of a plane, for example the B-52 is known as the BUF (anyone know what that stands for?), the F-105 was known as the Thud and the A-10 is known as the warthog.
Big Ugly "Fellow". The F-100 is the lead sled. The C-47 is the Gooneybird.

Valiant
02-18-2006, 07:34 PM
Love the A-10 Warthog or the Warhog have a huge picture of that thing in my bedroom... Meanest airplane out there...

AirForceChief
02-18-2006, 07:51 PM
Sorry to re-rail the thread, but the F-117 is being retired...so the designation of the aircraft is now irrelevant (IMO).

The A-10 is my personal favorite...but that is b/c it was the first asset from my first assignment: Myrtle Beach.

Bowser
02-18-2006, 09:11 PM
Sorry to re-rail the thread, but the F-117 is being retired...so the designation of the aircraft is now irrelevant (IMO).

The A-10 is my personal favorite...but that is b/c it was the first asset from my first assignment: Myrtle Beach.

Interesting that they would retire the F-117, but keep the B-52 and B-1 flying, not to mention the Navy with the A-6.

That being said, I'd love to know what they have waiting in the wings to replace it (I know the Raptor is on deck - I mean the craft we DON'T know about) . I'd still like to know what we replaced the SR-17 Blackbird with.

AirForceChief
02-18-2006, 09:23 PM
Interesting that they would retire the F-117, but keep the B-52 and B-1 flying, not to mention the Navy with the A-6.

That being said, I'd love to know what they have waiting in the wings to replace it (I know the Raptor is on deck - I mean the craft we DON'T know about) . I'd still like to know what we replaced the SR-17 Blackbird with.

The B-52 has been updated and has the payload no other aircraft can keep pace with. The Raptor (FA-22) has been active for at least four years, so I have no idea what you mean by "DON'T know about." The Blackbird has been replaced by the optics and lens possessed by a myriad of aircraft. Simply put, we don't need the SR-71 any more.

Donger
02-18-2006, 09:25 PM
It's not a fighter and never will be. So, shouldn't it be the A-117? It is an attack aircraft, not a fighter. I don't think it even carries air to air missles, does it? I was just watching the Discovery channel and this question came to mind. :hmmm:

Fighter puke arrogance.

Donger
02-18-2006, 09:25 PM
i loved that propeller plane that was still used in Vietnam. That thing was a piece.

The A1 Skyraider? Beautiful bird.

Donger
02-18-2006, 09:27 PM
The B-52 has been updated and has the payload no other aircraft can keep pace with. The Raptor (FA-22) has been active for at least four years, so I have no idea what you mean by "DON'T know about." The Blackbird has been replaced by the optics and lens possessed by a myriad of aircraft. Simply put, we don't need the SR-71 any more.

What bird do we have that can fly at 100K+ at Mach 3? Sans satellites, of course.

AirForceChief
02-18-2006, 09:31 PM
What bird do we have that can fly at 100K+ at Mach 3? Sans satellites, of course.

The UAVs amd the satellites have taken the Blackbirds place.

Bowser
02-18-2006, 09:32 PM
The B-52 has been updated and has the payload no other aircraft can keep pace with. The Raptor (FA-22) has been active for at least four years, so I have no idea what you mean by "DON'T know about." The Blackbird has been replaced by the optics and lens possessed by a myriad of aircraft. Simply put, we don't need the SR-71 any more.

When I say DON'T know about, I'm talking in terms of the Blackbird flying missions from what, the late '50's? There is almost certainly a plane the general public knows nothing about flying missions right now, at this very minute.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:32 PM
I agree, air superiority fighters are just sexier. Look at the Raptor, that thing is crazy whereas the a-10 looks like a flying jalopy. I've always loved the A-10 also. It's badass!

Donger
02-18-2006, 09:33 PM
The UAVs amd the satellites have taken the Blackbirds place.

Are you saying that we have a UAV that can fly at those altitudes and those speeds?

Re-tasking a bird in orbit isn't an easy (or very practical, tactically speaking) thing to do.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:35 PM
i loved that propeller plane that was still used in Vietnam. That thing was a piece.

A-1 Skyraider

http://www.vietnam-war.info/images/a-1_skyraider.jpg

AirForceChief
02-18-2006, 09:37 PM
I've always loved the A-10 also. It's badass!

Love the present tense...'cause it still is a bad ass. RE: Highway of Death.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:37 PM
I worked on the flight deck of the USS JFK aircraft carrier. An EA6B Prowler is knows as a "Queer". An S-3 Viking is known as a "Hoover" or "Bags".

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:42 PM
The vulcan canon is a very mean weapon, I was in the Air Force when the A-10 first rolled out.

We were shown a film on the plane in action at a Captains call. It does chew up metal like it's paper. I'd like to mount a vulcan canon onto the roof of my car. That would be cool in morning traffic.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:43 PM
Sorry to re-rail the thread, but the F-117 is being retired...so the designation of the aircraft is now irrelevant (IMO).

The A-10 is my personal favorite...but that is b/c it was the first asset from my first assignment: Myrtle Beach. I didn't know it was being retired! What's up with that?

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:46 PM
Interesting that they would retire the F-117, but keep the B-52 and B-1 flying, not to mention the Navy with the A-6.

That being said, I'd love to know what they have waiting in the wings to replace it (I know the Raptor is on deck - I mean the craft we DON'T know about) . I'd still like to know what we replaced the SR-17 Blackbird with.

The A-6 isn't sexy at all, but it's a badass bird. "The A-6 Intruder is capable of carrying a bombload that is second only to the B-52." I memorized that when I was in the Navy. It's hard to believe that the A-6 can carry that much ordinance.

Satellites replaced the SR-71. They're boring.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:47 PM
The B-52 has been updated and has the payload no other aircraft can keep pace with. The Raptor (FA-22) has been active for at least four years, so I have no idea what you mean by "DON'T know about." The Blackbird has been replaced by the optics and lens possessed by a myriad of aircraft. Simply put, we don't need the SR-71 any more. Do you mean active or operational? The FA-22 isn't in service yet, is it?

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 09:50 PM
The warthog may have been ugly but it was a mean, lean fighting maching (well maybe not lean, but it ate tanks for a snack). Isn't it still in active service with the Gaurd and Reserve units? I thought it was only retired with the active units.

KCHawg
02-18-2006, 10:24 PM
The A-10 Warthawg is still in service with active duty, reserves and guard. The cannon is the GAU-8 Avenger, not the Vulcan. The avenger is 30mm, the vulcan is 20mm. Any questions? Just ask, I'm a crewchief on the A-10's at Whiteman.

JBucc
02-18-2006, 10:25 PM
The A-10 Warthawg is still in service with active duty, reserves and guard. The cannon is the GAU-8 Avenger, not the Vulcan. The avenger is 30mm, the vulcan is 20mm. Any questions? Just ask, I'm a crewchief on the A-10's at Whiteman.I have a question. Can you destroy Incesto? For me :redface:

chefsos
02-18-2006, 10:27 PM
Oh yeah, the A-10 is one badass airplane, even if it looks prehistoric. I understand they've been known to make it back to base safely with the wings damn near shot off. And whoever designed the thing had pure evil in mind by wrapping it around that nasty GAU-8A cannon!

KCHawg
02-18-2006, 10:27 PM
That would be a service to the entire AFC west. I wish they would drop several on Dungver.

John_Wayne
02-18-2006, 11:03 PM
The A-10 Warthawg is still in service with active duty, reserves and guard. The cannon is the GAU-8 Avenger, not the Vulcan. The avenger is 30mm, the vulcan is 20mm. Any questions? Just ask, I'm a crewchief on the A-10's at Whiteman.

That's good info to have. Thanks. If the Avenger is a 30mm and the Vulcan is a 20mm, is there a 40mm?

BIG K
02-19-2006, 12:04 AM
It's not a fighter and never will be. So, shouldn't it be the A-117? It is an attack aircraft, not a fighter. I don't think it even carries air to air missles, does it? I was just watching the Discovery channel and this question came to mind. :hmmm:

I scanned all the replies and did not see a response to your question. If I missed it, I apoligize for my post. The reason the F-117 is designated as a 'fighter' and not a bomber "B" or as an attack aircraft "A" has to do with strategic bombers amount under the salt treaty, (Not sure on the actual treaty) but some treaty with the Soviet Union on bomber strength. If the U.S. military designated it as a fighter, it would circumvent the treaty thus, we have the F-117 and the F-111 Aardvark. Both aircraft are clearly 'bombers' or 'attack' aircraft and not air superiority fighters...(No air to air capability) Cept' for the F-111 that was fitted with a 20 mm rotary cannon in Vietnam. But again, that was used primarily for air to ground roles...

F-117's being retired? Haven't heard that one. Though there may be some at the 'boneyard' for active service later.

BIG K
02-19-2006, 12:07 AM
That's good info to have. Thanks. If the Avenger is a 30mm and the Vulcan is a 20mm, is there a 40mm?

On a aircraft? I don't think so. I would however have to research what the AC-130 Spectre gunship carries. It has a Howitzer on it so it may be possible....As far as I know, no other aircraft in the U.S inventory carries a 40mm...

John_Wayne
02-19-2006, 12:27 AM
I scanned all the replies and did not see a response to your question. If I missed it, I apoligize for my post. The reason the F-117 is designated as a 'fighter' and not a bomber "B" or as an attack aircraft "A" has to do with strategic bombers amount under the salt treaty, (Not sure on the actual treaty) but some treaty with the Soviet Union on bomber strength. If the U.S. military designated it as a fighter, it would circumvent the treaty thus, we have the F-117 and the F-111 Aardvark. Both aircraft are clearly 'bombers' or 'attack' aircraft and not air superiority fighters...(No air to air capability) Cept' for the F-111 that was fitted with a 20 mm rotary cannon in Vietnam. But again, that was used primarily for air to ground roles...

F-117's being retired? Haven't heard that one. Though there may be some at the 'boneyard' for active service later. Wow! Great answer. I'd not heard that at all.

John_Wayne
02-19-2006, 12:28 AM
On a aircraft? I don't think so. I would however have to research what the AC-130 Spectre gunship carries. It has a Howitzer on it so it may be possible....As far as I know, no other aircraft in the U.S inventory carries a 40mm... That's another bird that I really like. Don't they call it Puff the Magic Dragon, or is that just in the movies?

BIG K
02-19-2006, 12:40 AM
That's another bird that I really like. Don't they call it Puff the Magic Dragon, or is that just in the movies?

"Puff the Magic Dragon" was actually a C-47 outfitted with cannons and guns in the Vietnam War. The C-47 or DC-3 in commercial use , was used as a gun platform in that war. It was a precursor to the C-130. Toward that latter part of the war, the AC-130 came on line, it was based on the C-130 Hercules that is still in service today. In fact the Hercules, in it's many different roles and capacities, is the only aircraft that began it's career in the 50's and is still being produced today. Some could argue that the B-52 Stratofortress is the oldest plane in existence, (B-52H begining their career in the early 60's), however the BUFFS have not been built since that time. The Hercules is still being built to this day.....

John_Wayne
02-19-2006, 01:00 AM
"Puff the Magic Dragon" was actually a C-47 outfitted with cannons and guns in the Vietnam War. The C-47 or DC-3 in commercial use , was used as a gun platform in that war. It was a precursor to the C-130. Toward that latter part of the war, the AC-130 came on line, it was based on the C-130 Hercules that is still in service today. In fact the Hercules, in it's many different roles and capacities, is the only aircraft that began it's career in the 50's and is still being produced today. Some could argue that the B-52 Stratofortress is the oldest plane in existence, (B-52H begining their career in the early 60's), however the BUFFS have not been built since that time. The Hercules is still being built to this day..... Once again, you're right. I knew that, but I didn't think of it. In the John Wayne movie, "The Green Berets", Puff the Magic Dragon was a C-47.

joesomebody
02-19-2006, 01:30 AM
I agree, air superiority fighters are just sexier. Look at the Raptor, that thing is crazy whereas the a-10 looks like a flying jalopy.That could be, but the A-10 is an amazingly versitile aircraft. We had Raptors out here for awhile, and they look so strange in how flat they are.

I really love the A-10 though, they may be ugly, but damn are they productive.

BIG K
02-19-2006, 01:38 AM
That could be, but the A-10 is an amazingly versitile aircraft. We had Raptors out here for awhile, and they look so strange in how flat they are.

I really love the A-10 though, they may be ugly, but damn are they productive.

Whats not to love about an aircraft built around a GUN? 30mm rounds of depleted uranium firing out of a 6 barrell cannon at 4k a minute? We should poll the Iraqi army on this one. Yes most would say it in an ugly bird but, when it comes down to it, no other plane in U.S. inventory can shred tanks like the A-10....

Rain Man
02-20-2006, 04:15 PM
That would be a service to the entire AFC west. I wish they would drop several on Dungver.


Keep in mind that there are hostages here.

KCHawg
02-20-2006, 04:25 PM
Keep in mind that there are hostages here.


We always do our best to minimize non-combatant casualties.
ROFL ROFL

Skip Towne
02-20-2006, 04:26 PM
"Puff the Magic Dragon" was actually a C-47 outfitted with cannons and guns in the Vietnam War. The C-47 or DC-3 in commercial use , was used as a gun platform in that war. It was a precursor to the C-130. Toward that latter part of the war, the AC-130 came on line, it was based on the C-130 Hercules that is still in service today. In fact the Hercules, in it's many different roles and capacities, is the only aircraft that began it's career in the 50's and is still being produced today. Some could argue that the B-52 Stratofortress is the oldest plane in existence, (B-52H begining their career in the early 60's), however the BUFFS have not been built since that time. The Hercules is still being built to this day.....
Did you ever see a 130 with jet assists? Impressive. Takes off and climbs like a fightr.

KCHawg
02-20-2006, 04:28 PM
Did you ever see a 130 with jet assists? Impressive. Takes off and climbs like a fightr.

Yep, it is impressive. saw 'Fat Albert' the C-130 that belongs to the Blue Angels demo team do a JATO takeoff at Richards Gebaur during an airshow.
:clap: :clap:

AirForceChief
02-20-2006, 04:35 PM
F-117's being retired? Haven't heard that one. Though there may be some at the 'boneyard' for active service later.

Here's some reading for you...

US Plans to Retire B-52s, C-21s, F-117 & U-2 for more F-22s
Posted 12-Jan-2006 14:53

The end for the U-2?
(click to view full)DefenseTech notes that a draft plan from the US Air Force plan ("program budget decision 720") intends to retire the USA's 33 U-2 reconnaissance aircraft, its 55 F-117 stealth fighters, 38 of its 76 C-21 Learjets, and about 40% of its B-52 bomber fleet between FY 2007-2011, in order to free up around $2.6 billion for the purchase of more F-22 Raptor fighters. The EB-52 SOJ [stand-off jammer] aircraft project would also be cancelled.

Another source:

Air Force aims to retire F-117A & U2 aircraft early
February 3 2006 at 3:35 PM
No score for this post
Chris (Login chrisrobsoar)
RedCoats(UK)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following article is a little long; however, the key point is that the Air Force think they can save money by retiring all 52 F-117As in 2008 (just two years away) and carry the task performed by the F-117A with B-2 and F-22. Similarly phasing out the U2 by 2011 and replacing it with the Global Hawk.

I think that the plan for retiring the F-117A in 2008 may be rather too ambitious to achieve in this timescale.


"Air Force aims to retire F-117A & U2 aircraft early

By Jim Skeen, LA Dailynew Staff Writer 02/02/2006 12:00:00 AM

PALMDALE - The Pentagon is proposing to speed up retirement of the F-117A stealth fighter and the U-2 reconnaissance aircraft in two programs that employ Lockheed Martin workers in Palmdale.

Stating that other aircraft that can handle their missions, Defense Department officials are looking to save about $2 billion by retiring all 52 F-117s in 2008 and the U-2s by 2011. The proposal was included in a document, titled "Budget Program Decision 720," that was drawn up for the president's fiscal year 2007 budget.

"The Air Force proposal accelerates the retirement of the aging F-117," the document authors wrote, from fiscal year 2008 to fiscal year 2011. "There are other more capable Air Force assets that can provide low-observable, precision-penetrating weapons capability." These include the B-2, the F-22 and the joint air-to-surface standoff missile, they wrote.

The proposal calls for starting the retirement of the U-2s in fiscal year 2007 and completing it in fiscal year 2011. The unmanned Global Hawk reconnaissance aircraft, assembled in Palmdale by Northrop Grumman workers, can take over the U-2's role of providing reconnaissance images to battlefield commanders, according to the document.

About 28 U-2s and five trainers are believed to remain in military service. All were built during the 1980s, though the design dates to the 1950s. The Air Force's F-117s were also built in the 1980s.

The Global Hawk has provided more than 15,000 images of targets in the Middle East in the War on Terror over the past year, the document said. A larger version now in production is able to carry additional gear for listening to enemy radio transmissions and identifying radar sites, as the U-2 can do.

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co. has modification and support functions for the F-117 and U-2 aircraft in Palmdale. Company spokeswoman Dianne Knippel declined to say how many employees work on the two programs. The company is discussing the proposals with the Air Force.

"It is way too premature to talk about what impacts it would have to Palmdale," Knippel said. Work on the U-2s in Palmdale includes updating the aircraft's cockpit displays and controls.

The company provides technical, maintenance and modernization support for the F-117 Nighthawk in Palmdale for the Air Force's 49th Fighter Wing.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Santa Clarita, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, is looking into the issue. McKeon is a fan of both programs, said aide Lew Stults.
"He thinks there's a lot of usefulness for them for years to come," Stults said.
Congress has included language in the last two defense authorization bills blocking the Air Force from retiring any of the F-117s. Congressional supporters have called the planes a unique asset and said talk of retiring them is premature."


http://www.dailynews.com/antelopevalley/ci_3465899

MOhillbilly
02-20-2006, 04:40 PM
living close to the spfld/branson regional i get to see lots of cool planes from c-130s/migs/a-10s/blackhawks all kinds of cool stuff.

Fish
02-20-2006, 04:47 PM
Whats not to love about an aircraft built around a GUN? 30mm rounds of depleted uranium firing out of a 6 barrell cannon at 4k a minute? We should poll the Iraqi army on this one. Yes most would say it in an ugly bird but, when it comes down to it, no other plane in U.S. inventory can shred tanks like the A-10....

Yeah.... just about anybody could get a hardon over that. Supposedly you could cover every square inch of a football field in under 3 minutes.... that's some firepower....

I had several Warthog models hanging in my room as a kid.... anybody else do airplane models when you were a kid?

chefsos
02-20-2006, 05:08 PM
living close to the spfld/branson regional i get to see lots of cool planes from c-130s/migs/a-10s/blackhawks all kinds of cool stuff.
I live about a half mile from the end of an AF base runway, but all I get to see are big ass C-5's, and the occasional F-16 or A-10.

Skip Towne
02-20-2006, 05:14 PM
living close to the spfld/branson regional i get to see lots of cool planes from c-130s/migs/a-10s/blackhawks all kinds of cool stuff.
Migs? I didn't know we had any of those.

HC_Chief
02-20-2006, 05:22 PM
I watched a show the other night where a bunch of pilots/designers were saying they thought the F22 was a move backwards... to the "bad old days" of high-tech reliance, rather than functionality. Sure, the Raptor can exceed Mach w/o afterburners and is classified a stealth aircraft, but once at Mach, stealth becomes irrelevant (according to the people on the show); the aircraft becomes clearly visible on radar. Engagements rarely/never occur at Mach, especially in the attack role. In addition to that, the advancements in IR technology make stealth somewhat obsolete: IR defeats radar-absorption/deflection, as it is NOT radar. The peeps on the show preferred more A10s and F15s.

Think it was on the Military Channel; or one of the History Channels.

chefsos
02-20-2006, 05:23 PM
Migs? I didn't know we had any of those.
The takeover was smooth and bloodless, Comrade.

Pants
02-20-2006, 06:54 PM
I watched a show the other night where a bunch of pilots/designers were saying they thought the F22 was a move backwards... to the "bad old days" of high-tech reliance, rather than functionality. Sure, the Raptor can exceed Mach w/o afterburners and is classified a stealth aircraft, but once at Mach, stealth becomes irrelevant (according to the people on the show); the aircraft becomes clearly visible on radar. Engagements rarely/never occur at Mach, especially in the attack role. In addition to that, the advancements in IR technology make stealth somewhat obsolete: IR defeats radar-absorption/deflection, as it is NOT radar. The peeps on the show preferred more A10s and F15s.

Think it was on the Military Channel; or one of the History Channels.

Yeah, that's why a SU-35/37 would own it in a dog fight.

dollar1
02-21-2006, 11:02 AM
As per Big K,

On a aircraft? I don't think so. I would however have to research what the AC-130 Spectre gunship carries. It has a Howitzer on it so it may be possible....As far as I know, no other aircraft in the U.S inventory carries a 40mm...

I believe it carries a 105 mm cannon. Which is incredible b/c that is the same gun the M-60 MBT and the early M-1's carried.

I was a Tanker by trade and the recoil the cannon produced was huge. Definition of huge = rocking a 65 ton vehicle 3 ft up into the air.

~back under my rock~