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Pitt Gorilla
03-03-2006, 10:54 PM
Boy, did we need that win. Good game to the Bears and good luck getting into the Big Dance. Hopefully, MVC gets 6.

Mr. Kotter
03-03-2006, 11:06 PM
Boy, did we need that win. Good game to the Bears and good luck getting into the Big Dance. Hopefully, MVC gets 6.

I know the MVC has had a great season, but SIX....? :hmmm:

I'd think five would be a coup for them....

tk13
03-03-2006, 11:15 PM
They definitely have 6 that'll be tourney or bubble-worthy. At least one will get popped though, quite possibly two. I watched Bradley today, they were impressive in beating Creighton, they definitely deserve to join the other 5 on the bubble now. I think they'd be a real fit to play in the first round of the tourney... they're really hot, they have that 7 footer and they play good defense.

BigRedChief
03-03-2006, 11:17 PM
Wichita State
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
and Bradley if they win the tourney

Mr. Kotter
03-03-2006, 11:19 PM
Witchita State
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
and Brdley if they win the tourney

I just think, one....and maybe even two get left out when the NCAA starts filling the "at-large" berths.

If they want 5 or 6 teams, they better pray for conference tourney's to go to the "top seeds," IMHO.

jspchief
03-03-2006, 11:19 PM
Bradley is hot right now. If they make a good run in the tournament, they should get a serious look for the NCAA.

HemiEd
03-03-2006, 11:25 PM
Shockers 23 and 7, wow that has been a long time coming!

tk13
03-03-2006, 11:31 PM
Wichita State
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
and Bradley if they win the tourney
Yeah, I'm not real sure who you leave off. Wichita State and S. Illinois have to be locks. Really Missouri State is a top 15-20 RPI team, you'd think they would have to be a lock too. N. Iowa probably has the most quality wins of anybody, been ranked in the top 25 a couple times. Bradley is on fire. Creighton might be the one closest to the bubble right now.

Pitt Gorilla
03-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah, I can't believe it, but Creighton could be out. SMS could be out as well, as they don't have any "signature" wins. Bradley is the most dangerous team I've seen all year. Inside/outside. I'm just glad they're on the other side of the bracket.

Mr. Kotter
03-03-2006, 11:40 PM
Yeah, I can't believe it, but Creighton could be out. SMS could be out as well, as they don't have any "signature" wins. Bradley is the most dangerous team I've seen all year. Inside/outside. I'm just glad they're on the other side of the bracket.

You know what....I'm being totally honest here.....

I'm kinda hopin' SMS, especially, doesn't make it to the dance.

Why? Given their record and play, and the NCAA's first round pairings and bracketing....could put them on a collision course with my Jayhawks. I've about had it with the Bucknell crap. If, somehow, SMS pulled out a win against KU....I'm afraid I just might snap.

:shake:

:banghead:

I might have to kill certain people, to survive the ridicule....


;)

PS: not you PG; further down the alphabet, and further "south" of you....

banyon
03-04-2006, 12:05 AM
Boy, did we need that win. Good game to the Bears and good luck getting into the Big Dance. Hopefully, MVC gets 6.

6? Sounds weird to say, but I gotta agree with Kotter.

My breakdown of the MVC profiles.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/WICH.gif Wichita St. [22-7(14-4), RPI: 23, SOS: 53] Quality Wins: SIU, Mizzou St (by 30), @Mizzou St, Creighton. Conference reg season champs are in no matter what. But, don't have any quality nonconference wins (did lose to Ill by 1), so I think they'll get a bad seed (9-10)

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/CREIGH.gif Creighton [19-8 (12-6), RPI: 30, SOS: 58] QWins: Nebraska (by 30) Mizzou St, George Mason (by 20), @Northern Iowa, Wichita St. Bad Losses: To Depaul (by 15), UT-Chattanooga. An okay resume, but the loss to Bradley in the tourney really bubblizes this team. they need to root against any upsets in the major conferences.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/MOST.gif Missouri State [20-7 (12-6), RPI: 18, SOS: 35] QWins: SIU, @N. Iowa, @Wisc-Milwaukee. B Losses: none. A late surge has really helped this team. Lost tonight to N. Iowa. A slightly stronger resume than Creighton IMO, but could be forced out.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/NIA.gif Northern Iowa [20-8 (11-7), RPI: 27, SOS: 41] QWins: @Iowa, @LSU, @Wichita St, SIU, Wichita St, Bucknell Mizzou St (tourney) BLosses: Bradley (by 20), @Ind. St. I still think that their QWins in the nonconference push them in no matter what happens. If they win the tourney, they will be the highest seeded MVC team despite their late-season fading act.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/SIL.gif Southern Illinois [19-9 (12-6), RPI: 44, SOS: 68] QWins: Wichita St., Creighton, @Creighton, N. iowa. B Losses: Monmouth (by 20), @Alaska-Anchorage, Ind. St, @Evansville. This resume is pretty weak (no good nonconference wins). They need to at least make the finals of Arch Madness to merit consideration IMO.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/collegebasketball/logos/BRAD.gif Bradley [18-9 (11-7), RPI: 46, SOS: 72] Qwins: N. Iowa, Mizzou St., SIU, @N. Iowa. BLosses: @Loyola-Chicago, Drake, @Ind. St. Very weak resume IMO. They need to win the whole tourney and get the auto-bid.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 12:12 AM
I think Wichita State, Northern Iowa, and Bradley should get in. I'm not as sure about the others.

tk13
03-04-2006, 12:23 AM
The reason Southern Illinois didn't have any quality non-conference wins is because they really didn't have many quality non-conference games. I don't think anybody wanted to play them... I mean look at their schedule, they didn't play anybody, and I don't think that's by their own design, they've just made the tournament and won games the last few years.

It'll be interesting to see how much attention people pay to Indiana State in that bad loss column too. That's a bit tricky, their best player was hurt for a bit and they went 0-10 without him. With him they had a winning record and beat Indiana, Butler, N. Iowa, S. Illinois, Bradley... if he'd been healthy the whole season they probably would've been a 6 or 7 seed at least. That Wichita State game they played today was much closer than it looked, WSU pulled away the last 4 minutes.

And I'm not sure you can leave Missouri State off. They're ranked 18th in the RPI. We'll see how much stock they put into that I guess.

|Zach|
03-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Heh, Missouri St. doesn't need luck to get in. They are in.

BigRedChief
03-04-2006, 01:22 AM
Heh, Missouri St. doesn't need luck to get in. They are in.

Top 20 RPI teams have never failed to make the tournament. Ever. Missouri State is in.

big nasty kcnut
03-04-2006, 01:27 AM
Wichita State is your overlord.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 01:52 PM
Anyone else watching WSU vs. Bradley? This is a really fun game to watch. A couple guys on each team will likely be pro prospects. Good stuff.

Coach
03-04-2006, 01:55 PM
Anyone else watching WSU vs. Bradley? This is a really fun game to watch. A couple guys on each team will likely be pro prospects. Good stuff.

Yep. This one might be a tough close game.

Coach
03-04-2006, 02:09 PM
Now the game is getting a bit sloppy, although both defenses are pretty good.

OldTownChief
03-04-2006, 02:37 PM
Shocks up by 2 at the half.

Extra Point
03-04-2006, 02:40 PM
How many will the Big 12 be sending? Mid-Con only sends one. Hope Zvocek & Co. can end the heartbreak for the Roos. It'd be nice to dance, even if it's getting knocked out the first round.

Great job, MVC!

HemiEd
03-04-2006, 03:23 PM
Anyone else watching WSU vs. Bradley? This is a really fun game to watch. A couple guys on each team will likely be pro prospects. Good stuff.

I just turned on the DVR of it, my tax appointment was at 1:30! :banghead:

I am trying to avoid the temptation of checking out the final score.

duncan_idaho
03-04-2006, 03:24 PM
I'd still like to know how a team that's best nonconference win is UW-Milwaukee can be ranked in the RPI Top 20...

SMS probably will get in, because of their peculiarly high RPI, but I don't agree with it.

banyon
03-04-2006, 03:30 PM
Top 20 RPI teams have never failed to make the tournament. Ever. Missouri State is in.

I've got a feeling that some exceptions are going to be made to that rule this year, since they altered the formula.

Mizzou St.'s regular season is over, but their RPI isn't.

They already dropped to 25. Other major conferences will be playing the best teams in their conferences. I would project Mizz. St to finish around 35 in the RPI.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2006, 03:33 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but the MVC is overrated. They've gone with the SEC-style "schedule absolute crap OOC" method, and to their credit they did very well against the absolute crap, but it only served to artificially inflate their RPIs once they hit conference play.

tk13
03-04-2006, 03:36 PM
I'd still like to know how a team that's best nonconference win is UW-Milwaukee can be ranked in the RPI Top 20...

SMS probably will get in, because of their peculiarly high RPI, but I don't agree with it.
Well it's a formula, it's not like you can cheat it really. What boosts them up is their actual conference play. I'm surprised they got up quite that high, they're kinda like Southern Illinois in that they didn't really have many marquee non-conference games.

Coach
03-04-2006, 03:39 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but the MVC is overrated. They've gone with the SEC-style "schedule absolute crap OOC" method, and to their credit they did very well against the absolute crap, but it only served to artificially inflate their RPIs once they hit conference play.

What the hell does that matter? There ought to be a premium on those top 50 wins against each other, especially on the road.

tk13
03-04-2006, 03:40 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but the MVC is overrated. They've gone with the SEC-style "schedule absolute crap OOC" method, and to their credit they did very well against the absolute crap, but it only served to artificially inflate their RPIs once they hit conference play.
Yeah, but is that by design or the fact that nobody wants to play them? The Mizzou and KU fans on here even admit they don't wanna play teams like S. Illinois and Missouri State, it doesn't do them any good. The whole conference has really held their own when they've played the "major" conference teams. Even the bottom feeders like Evansville and Indiana St. and Drake have all won or lost very close games to major teams. I think that's what has really boosted them this year.

duncan_idaho
03-04-2006, 03:41 PM
Well it's a formula, it's not like you can cheat it really. What boosts them up is their actual conference play. I'm surprised they got up quite that high, they're kinda like Southern Illinois in that they didn't really have many marquee non-conference games.

That's what I was trying to point out, in a round-about way: something is wrong with the RPI if a team in the MVC can play 0 games against major conference opponents, win 0 games against major conference opponents, then end up in the RPI top 20 just from their conference season.

SMS beat some conference rivals at home, then pulled off ONE road upset in the conference. Sorry, that's not an NCAA-worthy resume to me... especially when they get blown out of their first-round game in the conference tourney.

You SMS fans better hope Bradley doesn't win tomorrow... SMS already is on the NCAA ropes... if Bradley wins the automatic bid, bye bye Bears.

|Zach|
03-04-2006, 03:42 PM
That's what I was trying to point out, in a round-about way: something is wrong with the RPI if a team in the MVC can play 0 games against major conference opponents, win 0 games against major conference opponents, then end up in the RPI top 20 just from their conference season.

SMS beat some conference rivals at home, then pulled off ONE road upset in the conference. Sorry, that's not an NCAA-worthy resume to me... especially when they get blown out of their first-round game in the conference tourney.

You SMS fans better hope Bradley doesn't win tomorrow... SMS already is on the NCAA ropes... if Bradley wins the automatic bid, bye bye Bears.
Hey at least we didn't hurt our RPI by playing and beating Mizzou this year.

The Bears are in the tourney.

duncan_idaho
03-04-2006, 03:46 PM
Hey at least we didn't hurt our RPI by playing and beating Mizzou this year.

The Bears are in the tourney.

It would have hurt you this year... we'll see how that works out, long term.

And we'll see if the Bears are in the tourney next Sunday, won't we? If Bradley wins, I think you're out in the cold.

tk13
03-04-2006, 03:49 PM
That's what I was trying to point out, in a round-about way: something is wrong with the RPI if a team in the MVC can play 0 games against major conference opponents, win 0 games against major conference opponents, then end up in the RPI top 20 just from their conference season.

SMS beat some conference rivals at home, then pulled off ONE road upset in the conference. Sorry, that's not an NCAA-worthy resume to me... especially when they get blown out of their first-round game in the conference tourney.

You SMS fans better hope Bradley doesn't win tomorrow... SMS already is on the NCAA ropes... if Bradley wins the automatic bid, bye bye Bears.
That depends on how much respect you have for the conference. You have none, so you're going to think that. The formula and the conference's body of work against major conference teams would allow you to make a case that they deserve to be treated like a major conference, in that people put a team like Colorado on the bubble, and they haven't played anybody and don't have any great road wins. They're just on the bubble because of their home conference play... and that's "okay" because they're a "major" conference.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2006, 03:53 PM
What the hell does that matter? There ought to be a premium on those top 50 wins against each other, especially on the road.And, much like the SEC, the MVC teams are only Top 50 because of the cumulative effect of everyone's horrible OOC strength-of-schedule. 25% of your RPI is your opponents' win-loss record, and when you're playing a ton of teams that rolled through an extremely weak schedule before conference play began, that incestuous RPI boost just keeps happening.

The MVC deserves three or four teams in the dance, and it's been a great year for them, but they're all, for the most part, completely untested against good teams from other conferences.

duncan_idaho
03-04-2006, 03:58 PM
Tk,

There's no denying the MVC is better this year than it has been in the past. There's also no denying that the Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC probably all are down.

That doesn't mean I have to believe the MVC is six teams in the tourney good. I can see fouróWichita State, Northern Iowa, SIU (it's reputation helps it separate from the pack) and Creighton, though if Bradley wins, Creighton is out.

I know SMS finished third in the league, but I don't think it is that good. Getting hammered by UNI in the first round of the tourney didn't help that perception.

And I have watched a lot of Valley basketball because I live in St. Louis, and the SIU games always are on, in case anyone thinks I'm making these statements based on blind

HolmeZz
03-04-2006, 04:04 PM
Bradley knocks off Wichita State.

tk13
03-04-2006, 04:09 PM
And, much like the SEC, the MVC teams are only Top 50 because of the cumulative effect of everyone's horrible OOC strength-of-schedule. 25% of your RPI is your opponents' win-loss record, and when you're playing a ton of teams that rolled through an extremely weak schedule before conference play began, that incestuous RPI boost just keeps happening.

The MVC deserves three or four teams in the dance, and it's been a great year for them, but they're all, for the most part, completely untested against good teams from other conferences.
Bitter C-USA fan speaks up. :)

I think they've passed almost every test that's been put in front of them as a conference though. I think that's why their RPI is so high. Even the bottom feeder teams like Indiana State and Evansville have wins over major conference teams. And the top teams in the conference have beaten or lost extremely close games to top teams in other conferences. I mean what more can you ask for? What else would they have to do to get respect, schedule 7 or 8 ranked teams? You think 7 or 8 ranked teams would want to play them? I don't. Just like Northern Iowa... almost every tough test put in front of them they've passed. I mean I'm not gonna go putting MVC teams in the Final Four, but when you're talking that 6-13 seed range, I think they compare favorably to a lot of those teams.

Mr. Kotter
03-04-2006, 04:13 PM
Bradley knocks off Wichita State.

Bradley just may have knocked one of the "six" out....

HolmeZz
03-04-2006, 04:16 PM
I've defended the MVC quite a bit, but the RPIs of their teams is definitely bloated. Northern Iowa is the only tourney-bound team they have that has any significant OOC wins. Other than that, they've all just been beating up on each other and benefitting from that.

Coach
03-04-2006, 04:18 PM
Bradley just may have knocked one of the "six" out....

If you are referring that Bradley may have knocked WSU out, then you are incorrect. WSU is automatically in, since they won the MVC conference play.

Mr. Kotter
03-04-2006, 04:20 PM
If you are referring that Bradley may have knocked WSU out, then you are incorrect. WSU is automatically in, since they won the MVC conference play.

No....I meant one of the "bubble" teams.

Its might be Creighton. It would be a shame, but it might even be SMS.

|Zach|
03-04-2006, 04:23 PM
No....I meant one of the "bubble" teams.

Its might be Creighton. It would be a shame, but it might even be SMS.
Thats interesting those teams could be bounced. I am sure Missouri State will get in though.

OldTownChief
03-04-2006, 04:24 PM
If you are referring that Bradley may have knocked WSU out, then you are incorrect. WSU is automatically in, since they won the MVC conference play.

I understood that only the MVC tourn winner is an automatic bid. I'm glad I'm wrong but WSU would have been a shoe in as an at large anyway.

Coach
03-04-2006, 04:24 PM
No....I meant one of the "bubble" teams.

it's might be Creighton. It would be a shame, but it might even be SMS.

Oh, ok, then my apologies. I just assumed it was WSU that you were referring to, but I didn't know you were referring to a "bubble" team.

One side, SMS has a high RPI ranking, but they lost 2 games to WSU, while Creighton split against WSU, and Creighton did beat George Mason, a team that beated WSU on the bracket buster.

It'll be very interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.

Coach
03-04-2006, 04:26 PM
I understood that only the MVC tourn winner is an automatic bid. I'm glad I'm wrong but WSU would have been a shoe in as an at large anyway.

Yeah, I just assumed that either you win the conference or the conference tournament, more than likely you're going in, one way or another, but I'm not exactly 100% sure.

But yes, you are correct that if winning the MVC tournament is the automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, then WSU would get in at one of those at large spots anyways, somewhere between the 8-12 seeds I'd be betting.

Mr. Kotter
03-04-2006, 04:27 PM
.. I am sure Missouri State will get in though.

We'll see next week, I guess. The power of positive thinking....

HolmeZz
03-04-2006, 04:31 PM
You need to win the conference tourney to get an automatic bid. Wichita State isn't automatically in, though it's almost a given they'll get an at large bid.

OldTownChief
03-04-2006, 04:33 PM
Yeah, I just assumed that either you win the conference or the conference tournament, more than likely you're going in, one way or another, but I'm not exactly 100% sure.

But yes, you are correct that if winning the MVC tournament is the automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, then WSU would get in at one of those at large spots anyways, somewhere between the 8-12 seeds I'd be betting.

Been a long time comming for the Shocks. I hope they can make a respectable showing. Should be tough again next season but Miller will be hard to replace.

OldTownChief
03-04-2006, 04:35 PM
You need to win the conference tourney to get an automatic bid. Wichita State isn't automatically in, though it's almost a given they'll get an at large bid.

Thats the way I remembered it but wasn't really sure. I agree they will get in but stranger things have happened with the NCAA.

banyon
03-04-2006, 04:35 PM
Well it's a formula, it's not like you can cheat it really. What boosts them up is their actual conference play. I'm surprised they got up quite that high, they're kinda like Southern Illinois in that they didn't really have many marquee non-conference games.

I don't agree. You've just got to be really clever about scheduling your pansies. Make sure that you schedule the 1st or 2nd place finisher out of the Southland conference or the Big Sky instead of #7 or 8.

Ok, so generally, (leaving out the home-road distinction for the sake of simplicity) RPI= 1. Your win pct (25%), 2. Your opponents' win pct (50%), and 3. your opponents' opponents' win pct (25%).

Here's Mizzou St.'s nonconference opponents for example
_______________________
N. Illinois RPI 126---(15-10; 1st in Mid-American Conf.-West)
Ark. St (twice) RPI 224--(10-18; 3rd Sun Belt West)
Ga. Southern RPI 161--(18-9; 1st in Southern Conf.-South)
T A&M C-C--RPI 202--(16-8; Independent)
Oral Roberts--RPI 131--(17-11; Mid Con Conf.T-1st)
Detroit--RPI 180--(14-16; T 3rd Horizon Lg)
Arkansas (L) RPI 50--(20-8; 3rd, SEC West)
Wisc-Milwaukee--RPI 58 (18-8; 1st Horizon Lg)
___________________________________

For a nonconference RPI of #6 in the country. Yet that's all the teams they played. It's based purely on record. They went (8-1) against this schedule, so that's 25%. and then if you add up the records, then that's (128-88) a 60% win pct., which is 50% of the RPI formula.

Let's compare that to a team that did a poor job scheduling their "pansies". How about Kansas (RPI 41)?
__________________________________
Idaho St. RPI 201--(11-14; T-last in Big Sky)
Arizona (L) RPI 18--(18-10; 4th in PAC-10)
Arkansas (L) RPI 50--(20-8; 3rd, SEC West)
Nevada (L) RPI 27--(22-5; 1st WAC)
W. Illinois RPI 321--(5-20; 8th Mid-Con Conf.)
St. Joseph's (L)RPI 46--(14-12; 5th Atlantic-10)
California RPI 61--(17-9; 3rd Pac-10)
Pepperdine RPI 242 (7-20; last West Coast Conf.)
N. Colorado RPI 327 (3-24; Independent)
N. Orleans RPI 254 (8-18; 5th, Sun Belt West)
Yale RPI 190 (15-13; T-3rd Ivy League)
Kentucky RPI 31 (19-10; T-2nd SEC East)
_____________________________________

For a nonconference RPI of #138 in the country. They went 8-4 against this slate for the first 25%. Then adding up thier records, you get (159-163) a 49.3% win pct. for the second 50%. Scheduling a team like N. Colorado (3-24) in this regard kills this stat. If they had just replaced them with Hofstra (22-5) for example, they would be at (178-144) and probably at least be in the top 100 in nonconference RPI. Additionally, for the RPI, scheduling a team like Kentucky at 19-10 gets you the nearly same benefit in the first 2 categories as Tx A& M Corpus Christi, and as long as that team didn't schedule too poorly, then the 3rd category shouldn't hurt you too badly. Not to mention you don't take the risk of losing and hurting the first category (which offsets the 3rd a bit)

So, from what I can tell, If you do a good job of scheduling the right pansies, you can make out like a bandit.

tk13
03-04-2006, 04:41 PM
That's some interesting stuff. I'd highly contend that the top teams in the MAC and Horizon leagues are not "pansies" though.

banyon
03-04-2006, 04:45 PM
I think the key is just to not schedule the big time losers.

tk13
03-04-2006, 04:56 PM
Yeah, that kinda goes into my point. Even the bottom teams in the MVC did pretty well in non-conference, so that when the top teams played them in conference season it probably didn't drag them down quite as bad as it usually does.

banyon
03-04-2006, 05:09 PM
N. Iowa 20 SIU 20 at the half. Why are all of these Valley games so low-scoring?

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 05:12 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but the MVC is overrated. They've gone with the SEC-style "schedule absolute crap OOC" method, and to their credit they did very well against the absolute crap, but it only served to artificially inflate their RPIs once they hit conference play.Schedule crap? UNI beat Iowa, LSU, Bucknell, and Dayton out of conference. WSU lost to Illinois by one on a miracle shot. Seriously, explain how that is "absolute crap."

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 05:12 PM
N. Iowa 20 SIU 20 at the half. Why are all of these Valley games so low-scoring?Great defense.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 05:13 PM
If you are referring that Bradley may have knocked WSU out, then you are incorrect. WSU is automatically in, since they won the MVC conference play.I'm not sure about that.

Skip Towne
03-04-2006, 05:32 PM
N. Iowa 20 SIU 20 at the half. Why are all of these Valley games so low-scoring?
Shitty offense. Too many white guys.

tk13
03-04-2006, 05:34 PM
Shitty offense. Too many white guys.
Yes, because the two best players in college basketball are white guys. :)

Skip Towne
03-04-2006, 05:40 PM
Yes, because the two best players in college basketball are white guys. :)
Well that certainly proves whites are better players than blacks.

luv
03-04-2006, 05:42 PM
SMS? I thought it was MSU. :p

banyon
03-04-2006, 06:00 PM
N. Iowa 40 SIU 40, 30 secs left

banyon
03-04-2006, 06:00 PM
make that overtime.

Maybe they can score another 2 buckets each.

tk13
03-04-2006, 06:01 PM
This has been a great game. We'll see how much each side has left in the tank.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 06:09 PM
This has been a great game. We'll see how much each side has left in the tank.Grant Stout has been out of gas since before overtime.

tk13
03-04-2006, 06:20 PM
Great win for SIU. A lot of fun to watch. That team can D you up. Charlie Spoonhour's right, both them and Bradley get up in your jock and defend you. Good season for N. Iowa too, they probably have the best resume in the conference, they should be in.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 06:20 PM
Great win for SIU. A lot of fun to watch. That team can D you up. Charlie Spoonhour's right, both them and Bradley get up in your jock and defend you. Good season for N. Iowa too, they probably have the best resume in the conference, they should be in.Tomorrow's game will be incredible.

banyon
03-04-2006, 06:28 PM
Good game to watch.

After the tourney, IMHO the NCAA bids will be as follows (from highest seed to lowest):

(7-8) N. Iowa (still the best nonconference resume)
(8-9) Wichita St. (Conference champs)
(9-10) Bradley/SIU winner
(11-12) Bradley/SIU loser
____________________

(out-bubble) Mizzou St. - need a lot of help with no big conference upsets. I'm thinking it won't happen, with UAB/FSU/and T A&M probably stealing their bid.

(out) Creighton- sorry, that resume doesn't cut it combined with their tourney performance)

BigRedChief
03-04-2006, 10:24 PM
Good game to watch.

After the tourney, IMHO the NCAA bids will be as follows (from highest seed to lowest):

(7-8) N. Iowa (still the best nonconference resume)
(8-9) Wichita St. (Conference champs)
(9-10) Bradley/SIU winner
(11-12) Bradley/SIU loser
____________________

(out-bubble) Mizzou St. - need a lot of help with no big conference upsets. I'm thinking it won't happen, with UAB/FSU/and T A&M probably stealing their bid.

(out) Creighton- sorry, that resume doesn't cut it combined with their tourney performance)

Bradley is out unless they win the tourney.

Missouri State is in. Top 20 RPI gaurantees it. When they went to the sweet 16 with Alford "they" were saying the Bears were not going to make the tourney that year.

banyon
03-04-2006, 10:38 PM
Bradley is out unless they win the tourney.

Missouri State is in. Top 20 RPI gaurantees it. When they went to the sweet 16 with Alford "they" were saying the Bears were not going to make the tourney that year.

I don't think the RPI will carry as much weight this year for some reason (because it doesn't benefit the major conferences as much as usual maybe?).

2 other points. As i said earlier, Missouri St. doesn't have a top 20 RPI. They are #25. Pomeroy (updated daily unlike NCAA site) (http://kenpom.com/rpi.php) As conference tourneys keep going next week, their RPI is likely to go down some more, since the teams that they didn't play (i.e. major conference teams) will be playing only the best teams in their respective conferences. I predict Mizzou St finishes around #32.

Those SMS Bears almost didn't make it. They were a #12 seed. The only team that was lower rated by the committee and made it as an at-large was Oklahoma as a #13. SMS was rated at #35 in the RPI that year, Evansville was rated at #44 that year, but got a higher seed. Of course the purple aces had beaten SMS twice.

I respectfully stand by my pick. If no bubblish teams do well in conference tourneys (which I think is unlikely) then Mizzou St is out.

Skip Towne
03-04-2006, 11:08 PM
I don't think the RPI will carry as much weight this year for some reason (because it doesn't benefit the major conferences as much as usual maybe?).

2 other points. As i said earlier, Missouri St. doesn't have a top 20 RPI. They are #25. Pomeroy (updated daily unlike NCAA site) (http://kenpom.com/rpi.php) As conference tourneys keep going next week, their RPI is likely to go down some more, since the teams that they didn't play (i.e. major conference teams) will be playing only the best teams in their respective conferences. I predict Mizzou St finishes around #32.

Those SMS Bears almost didn't make it. They were a #12 seed. The only team that was lower rated by the committee and made it as an at-large was Oklahoma as a #13. SMS was rated at #35 in the RPI that year, Evansville was rated at #44 that year, but got a higher seed. Of course the purple aces had beaten SMS twice.

I respectfully stand by my pick. If no bubblish teams do well in conference tourneys (which I think is unlikely) then Mizzou St is out.
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.

BigRedChief
03-04-2006, 11:10 PM
Those SMS Bears almost didn't make it. They were a #12 seed. The only team that was lower rated by the committee and made it as an at-large was Oklahoma as a #13. SMS was rated at #35 in the RPI that year, Evansville was rated at #44 that year, but got a higher seed. Of course the purple aces had beaten SMS twice.

The head dude was on the announcement show and was specifically asked about SMS. He said that SMS was never in doubt to make it.

BigRedChief
03-04-2006, 11:12 PM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.
Every year a MVC team is ranked 10-12th and pulls an upset of a 5-7 seed. And about every other year one team makes the sweet 16. No they are not ready for the final four but they can beat the #4 teams out of the big east, big ten etc....

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 11:14 PM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.Again, UNI beat LSU, Iowa, and Bucknell. They may lose their first round matchup, but they will certainly "hold their own." WSU's Miller is a great big man as is Bradley's O'Bryant. Both teams also have excellent wing players in Cousinard and Summerville, respectively. Thankfully, the selection committee knows quite a bit more than the standard CP genious.

Skip Towne
03-04-2006, 11:18 PM
LSU, Iowa and Bucknell are not ranked. How are those proof of anything? I saw the SIU-Northern Iowa game today and was extremely underwhelmed by the 40-40 tie at the end of regulation. Do you really think those slow white boys can hold even a weak tourney team to 40 points? Hahahahahaha

tk13
03-04-2006, 11:19 PM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.
Why not? As I've said for a couple weeks now, I wouldn't put them in the Final Four but go look at their tournament record in this decade, it looks a lot better than all the KU and MU homers on here that act like the MVC would get waxed by Baylor would expect. They aren't gonna go out there and thump Duke but they definitely belong just fine with most all of the mid-seeded major conference teams.

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 11:20 PM
LSU, Iowa and Bucknell are not ranked. How are those proof of anything? I saw the SIU-Northern Iowa game today and was extremely underwhelmed by the 40-40 tie at the end of regulation. Do you really think those slow white boys can hold even a weak tourney team to 40 points? HahahahahahaUm, could you kindly tell me which polls don't have Iowa and LSU ranked? Seriously.

|Zach|
03-04-2006, 11:26 PM
Um, could you kindly tell me which polls don't have Iowa and LSU ranked? Seriously.
heh...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

21. LSU
24. Iowa

Skip Towne
03-04-2006, 11:28 PM
Um, could you kindly tell me which polls don't have Iowa and LSU ranked? Seriously.
Why don't you show me the polls where they are?

|Zach|
03-04-2006, 11:31 PM
Why don't you show me the polls where they are?
ESPN is linked below...

And the AP and Coaches polls has them ranked as well.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/polls/

Pitt Gorilla
03-04-2006, 11:39 PM
Why don't you show me the polls where they are?Are you serious?

alanm
03-04-2006, 11:47 PM
I hate to say this but Creighton won't get in. Decimated by injuries, they've just run out of gas. :(
That said they'll probably win the NIT.

|Zach|
03-05-2006, 01:20 AM
Skip runs and hides again.

Nice.

Pitt Gorilla
03-12-2006, 03:37 PM
Skip still hiding?

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2006, 03:38 PM
Skip still hiding?

I have a feeling he'll be around a lot pretty soon.... :)

savedin79
03-12-2006, 07:13 PM
Who's SMS? I only know Missouri State!

Al Czervik
03-12-2006, 07:54 PM
So, what region and seed did SMS get???

I mean, I saw numerous posts saying, without a doubt, they were in!!!!

ChiefsCountry
03-12-2006, 07:56 PM
So, what region and seed did SMS get???

I mean, I saw numerous posts saying, without a doubt, they were in!!!!

Biggest screw job in the history of the NCAA's. Joke Air Force, Utah State, and Bradley got in.

Reaper16
03-12-2006, 08:04 PM
Didn't MSU end up with like, 19 RPI? They should have been an at-large lock, imo.

duncan_idaho
03-12-2006, 08:07 PM
Biggest screw job in the history of the NCAA's. Joke Air Force, Utah State, and Bradley got in.

Biggest ever? I don't know about that... but it was, perhaps, a bit of one.

Bottom line: you can't choke in the first round of your conference tourney when you're on the bubble... unless you're from a big conference or have impressive wins out of the conference.

Skip Towne
03-12-2006, 08:15 PM
Hiding? I have more than 37,000 posts on this board. I don't hide very successfully on here. I'm tickled that KU drew a "Valley Contender" if you can call any valley team a contender. They got 4 bids, the same as the Big XII. Oh, my, they are just as good as the Big XII, then. You might want to consider though, that our entries are 2, 4, 6 and 12 seeds. Yours are 7, 10, 11 and 13. I guess the tournament committee isn't all that proud of the Valley. I've only watched a couple of Valley games but I was certainly not impressed. I keep hearing about the great defense of the MVC. Hey, guess what? KU leads the nation in "opponents FG %age". But KU never holds anybody to 40 points. Strictly a Valley phenomenon. They hold each other to 40 points. I really didn't want to disparage the Valley as they were once a force. Maybe they are again and I just can't see it. We will find out pretty shortly.

Ultra Peanut
03-12-2006, 08:16 PM
Biggest screw job in the history of the NCAA's. Joke Air Force, Utah State, and Bradley got in.You're talking about Cincinnati, right?

Biggest ever? I don't know about that... but it was, perhaps, a bit of one.

Bottom line: you can't choke in the first round of your conference tourney when you're on the bubble... unless you're from a big conference or have impressive wins out of the conference.Or have incriminating photos of members of the selection committee (see also: Air Force Academy).

I really didn't want to disparage the Valley as they were once a force. I wasn't around then, but still... good times. Memphis (State), Cincy, UL, Tulsa...

Pitt Gorilla
03-12-2006, 08:19 PM
Hiding? I have more than 37,000 posts on this board. I don't hide very successfully on here. I'm tickled that KU drew a "Valley Contender" if you can call any valley team a contender. They got 4 bids, the same as the Big XII. Oh, my, they are just as good as the Big XII, then. You might want to consider though, that our entries are 2, 4, 6 and 12 seeds. Yours are 7, 10, 11 and 13. I guess the tournament committee isn't all that proud of the Valley. I've only watched a couple of Valley games but I was certainly not impressed. I keep hearing about the great defense of the MVC. Hey, guess what? KU leads the nation in "opponents FG %age". But KU never holds anybody to 40 points. Strictly a Valley phenomenon. They hold each other to 40 points. I really didn't want to disparage the Valley as they were once a force. Maybe they are again and I just can't see it. We will find out pretty shortly.You're missing the point (possibly on purpose). You said that LSU and Iowa weren't ranked. I provided evidence to the contrary. You never followed up. I wonder why...

FWIW, I think KU will beat Bradley, possibly badly. I don't know what to think about the other matchups.

Skip Towne
03-12-2006, 08:34 PM
You're missing the point (possibly on purpose). You said that LSU and Iowa weren't ranked. I provided evidence to the contrary. You never followed up. I wonder why...

FWIW, I think KU will beat Bradley, possibly badly. I don't know what to think about the other matchups.
The only time I see the rankings are when I buy a paper. Not very often any more. But I hear very little about Iowa or LSU on this board which is my main source of info. And I notice that neither LSU or Iowa are in the top 20. So the "quality wins" you are claiming aren't really of that high quality. I admit to not watching Valley basketball. It has sucked for 30 years that I know of. I don't have that kind of patience. Don't you find it a little suspicious that all of these Valley teams got to be NCAA tournament quality all at once? I do. And after watching only two games I concluded that the Valley has not improved much over the past 20 years. Hey, I'm not the only one that suspects the Valley are a bunch of pretenders. They are going to have to win some Tourney games to convince me. It wasn't that long ago that Wichita State cried and moaned that KU and K_State wouldn't schedule them. Well, KU kicked the shit out of them several times and they shut up. Looks like they are back.

banyon
03-12-2006, 09:53 PM
Good game to watch.

After the tourney, IMHO the NCAA bids will be as follows (from highest seed to lowest):

(7-8) N. Iowa (still the best nonconference resume)
(8-9) Wichita St. (Conference champs)
(9-10) Bradley/SIU winner
(11-12) Bradley/SIU loser
____________________

(out-bubble) Mizzou St. - need a lot of help with no big conference upsets. I'm thinking it won't happen, with UAB/FSU/and T A&M probably stealing their bid.

(out) Creighton- sorry, that resume doesn't cut it combined with their tourney performance)

PBJ (umm. I told you so and stuff)

Bradley is out unless they win the tourney.

Missouri State is in. Top 20 RPI gaurantees it. When they went to the sweet 16 with Alford "they" were saying the Bears were not going to make the tourney that year.

:banghead:

Of course, I thought it would be Cincinnatti and Florida State that would force the Valley Teams out, not Air Force and Utah St. That's completely retarded. Air Force only beat 1 team in the tourney (Sd. St.) and Utah St. only beat Nevada. It's absurd that those two teams are in over Cincy FSU, or even Mo. St. or Creighton.

jspchief
03-12-2006, 10:02 PM
UNI is a lock. No question in my mind. SIU, WSU, and Bradley will get in too.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3078430&postcount=33

Skip Towne
03-12-2006, 10:19 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3078430&postcount=33
Well, Bradley is only in temporarily. Oh, shit, am I gloating? Bob Dole really gets pissed when us KU fans gloat.

jspchief
03-12-2006, 10:22 PM
Well, Bradley is only in temporarily. Oh, shit, am I gloating? Bob Dole really gets pissed when us KU fans gloat.I think your opinion of the MVC may change after this game. It's not going to be the cakewalk you have chalked it up to be. Bradley has some good players and they are hot right now.

I'm not saying KU is going to lose, but I think it will be a game.

Skip Towne
03-12-2006, 10:40 PM
I think your opinion of the MVC may change after this game. It's not going to be the cakewalk you have chalked it up to be. Bradley has some good players and they are hot right now.

I'm not saying KU is going to lose, but I think it will be a game.
I learned about 40 years ago to never count a tourney win until the clock reads 00:00. Especially in basketball where one player can take a team to the NC game( Larry Bird and Indiana State). I'm sure Bradley will be pumped to be playing KANSAS but I think our young players are still in awe that they are actually in the Tourney. They are playing like a team possessed and won't let up for fear of losing like they did early in the season. Did you see what they did to Texas today? And yes, I may change my opinion of the MVC after the Tourney but they are going to have to show me. It is just too much of a coincidence for all these Valley teams to become Dance worthy at the same time. We'll just have to wait and see.

jspchief
03-12-2006, 10:47 PM
It is just too much of a coincidence for all these Valley teams to become Dance worthy at the same time. We'll just have to wait and see.Coincidence? Not really. In a year when they were strong, traditonal power conferences like the SEC and Big 12 were weak.

I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue teams that belong there in place of those MVC teams. And I don't think they are getting any undue credit. I think the seeds they received are pretty in line with what they deserve.

Pitt Gorilla
03-12-2006, 10:55 PM
I learned about 40 years ago to never count a tourney win until the clock reads 00:00. Especially in basketball where one player can take a team to the NC game( Larry Bird and Indiana State). I'm sure Bradley will be pumped to be playing KANSAS but I think our young players are still in awe that they are actually in the Tourney. They are playing like a team possessed and won't let up for fear of losing like they did early in the season. Did you see what they did to Texas today? And yes, I may change my opinion of the MVC after the Tourney but they are going to have to show me. It is just too much of a coincidence for all these Valley teams to become Dance worthy at the same time. We'll just have to wait and see.You do realize that Northern Iowa has been to the Big Dance for three years in a row now, right? I'm not sure we have a very good chance against Georgetown or that Bradley will come close to Kansas, but it's not like these teams came from nowhere.

tk13
03-17-2006, 11:53 PM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams?

:Poke:

banyon
03-17-2006, 11:54 PM
definitely a valid bump tk.

|Zach|
03-17-2006, 11:58 PM
I was rooting for all the MVC teams because it is in Missouri State's intrest in the future for them to do well...I kind of expected the N. Iowa loss but I was pretty dissapointed with SIU. I thought they would bring more than that...

Hopefully the Braves and Shockers keep doing well for themselves.

BTW, the Bears beat Stanford in Springfield tonight in the NIT.

Mr. Kotter
03-17-2006, 11:58 PM
You do realize that Northern Iowa has been to the Big Dance for three years in a row now, right? I'm not sure we have a very good chance against Georgetown or that Bradley will come close to Kansas, but it's not like these teams came from nowhere.

Fair enough. :clap:

Mr. Kotter
03-18-2006, 12:00 AM
I was rooting for all the MVC teams because it is in Missouri State's intrest in the future for them to do well...I kind of expected the N. Iowa loss but I was pretty dissapointed with SIU. I thought they would bring more than that...

Hopefully the Braves and Shockers keep doing well for themselves.

BTW, the Bears beat Standford in Springfield tonight in the NIT.

Go Bears. :)

Pitt Gorilla
03-18-2006, 12:07 AM
I can't believe how arrogant KU folks are. I was driving back to Iowa which took me through KC. The tards on the KU pregame broadcast were talking not about the potential score, but by how much KU would win. One radio guy said 26, another said 20. One guy thought Bradley would keep it close and only lose by 9 or 10. What a bunch of idiots.

Welcome to MVC basketball, Big 12 champs.

banyon
03-18-2006, 12:09 AM
I can't believe how arrogant KU folks are. I was driving back to Iowa which took me through KC. The tards on the KU pregame broadcast were talking not about the potential score, but by how much KU would win. One radio guy said 26, another said 20. One guy thought Bradley would keep it close and only lose by 9 or 10. What a bunch of idiots.

Welcome to MVC basketball, Big 12 champs.

I'm guessing that you would've said the same thing about the UCONN game beforehand too. Those are normal 4-13 predictions in previous years. But parity has arrived.

|Zach|
03-18-2006, 12:09 AM
Welcome to MVC basketball, Big 12 champs.
:clap:

Pitt Gorilla
03-18-2006, 12:16 AM
I'm guessing that you would've said the same thing about the UCONN game beforehand too. Those are normal 4-13 predictions in previous years. But parity has arrived.Maybe, but I know nothing about those teams. After watching a ton of MVC games, I wouln't have wanted to face Bradley right now. I certainly wouldn't have predicted my team to win, much less win in a blowout. Of course, I actually know something about Bradley's team.

banyon
03-18-2006, 12:18 AM
Maybe, but I know nothing about those teams. After watching a ton of MVC games, I wouln't have wanted to face Bradley right now. I certainly wouldn't have predicted my team to win, much less win in a blowout. Of course, I actually know something about Bradley's team.


I did think they were underseeded a bit. I thought as MVC runner-up they should be an 11. (see post #94)

No excuses though. We still should have beaten them.

Pitt Gorilla
03-18-2006, 12:34 AM
I did think they were underseeded a bit. I thought as MVC runner-up they should be an 11. (see post #94)

No excuses though. We still should have beaten them.Hell, Nance and Packer thought they shouldn't be in the tourney. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that these KU idiots thought they'd roll by 20. People need to wake up and realize that the Valley is for real.

tk13
03-18-2006, 12:40 AM
Hell, Nance and Packer thought they shouldn't be in the tourney. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that these KU idiots thought they'd roll by 20. People need to wake up and realize that the Valley is for real.
Nantz gave them credit at the end of the Kentucky game. Said they proved themselves as one of the last teams in... kinda left it open for Packer... and Packer was silent. It was hilarious.

Pitt Gorilla
03-18-2006, 02:38 AM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.
ROFL

Ultra Peanut
03-18-2006, 05:33 AM
That needs to be someone's sig. Wow.

Spott
03-18-2006, 06:25 AM
Mizzou St really got screwed by the NCAA. They came in second in the MVC yet 3 teams that finished under them in the conference(including Bradley) got invited to the tourney.

BigRedChief
03-18-2006, 10:25 AM
Welcome to MVC basketball, Big 12 champs.

And share some crow with Mr. Packer too.

Pitt Gorilla
03-19-2006, 01:36 PM
Does anybody really believe the MVC can hold their own against tourney teams? It just seems one hell of a coincidence that such a mediocre conference got great all at once. I'll believe it when I see it.Skip, have you seen enough evidence to convince you of your apparent lack of knowledge? Perhaps you should watch a few more MVC games before you spout off foolish garbage...

kepp
03-19-2006, 04:36 PM
Mizzou St really got screwed by the NCAA. They came in second in the MVC yet 3 teams that finished under them in the conference(including Bradley) got invited to the tourney.
They got seriously shafted. They should have been in instead of Air Force. I'm glad Bradley is rollin though.

banyon
03-19-2006, 04:39 PM
That needs to be someone's sig. Wow.


Yeah, Pitt. You should switch out the Area51 quote with Skip's. You earned it and it's classic.

Pitt Gorilla
03-20-2006, 12:50 PM
Yeah, Pitt. You should switch out the Area51 quote with Skip's. You earned it and it's classic.Good idea.