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Donger
03-09-2006, 01:16 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060309/ap_on_sc/saturn_moon;_ylt=An8m0.JMVCvRXQspF1MKfeqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MzV0MTdmBHNlYwM3NTM-

LOS ANGELES - The Cassini spacecraft has found evidence of liquid water spewing from geysers on one of Saturn's icy moons, raising the tantalizing possibility that the celestial object harbors life.

The surprising discovery excited some scientists, who say the Saturn moon, Enceladus, should be added to the short list of places within the solar system most likely to have extraterrestrial life.

Recent high-resolution images snapped by the orbiting Cassini confirmed the eruption of icy jets and giant water vapor plumes from geysers resembling frozen Old Faithfuls at Enceladus' south pole.

"We have the smoking gun" that proves the existence of water, said Carolyn Porco, a Cassini imaging scientist from the Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colo.

If Enceladus does harbor life, it probably consists of microbes or other primitive organisms capable of living in extreme conditions, scientists say.

The findings were published in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

David Morrison, a senior scientist at
NASA's Astrobiology Institute, cautioned against rushing to judgment about whether the tiny moon could support life. Scientists generally agree habitats need several ingredients for life to emerge, including water, a stable heat source and the right chemical recipe.

"It's certainly interesting, but I don't see how much more you can say beyond that," Morrison said.

Scientists believe Mars and Jupiter's icy moons might have or once had conditions hospitable to life.

Saturn is around 800 million miles from Earth. Enceladus measures 314 miles across and is the shiniest object in the solar system.

It was long thought to be cold and still. But scientists now believe it is a geologically active moon that possesses an unusually warm south pole.

The water is believed to vent from fissures in the south pole. Porco said the venting has probably been going on for at least several thousand years, potentially providing a lasting heat source.

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a joint NASA-European Space Agency project. The spacecraft was launched in 1997 and went into orbit around Saturn in 2004, exploring its spectacular rings and many moons. Cassini made three flybys of Enceladus last year and is expected to fly within 220 miles of the moon again in 2008.

dr00d
03-09-2006, 01:17 PM
oooh, so between Io and this one, we are sure to find an underwater civilization! awesome.

StcChief
03-09-2006, 01:18 PM
Cold blooded civilization.

dr00d
03-09-2006, 01:19 PM
I'm betting its like the gungans in star wars! that would be sweeeeeeeet.

Mr. Laz
03-09-2006, 01:19 PM
where there's water there's life

Donger
03-09-2006, 01:19 PM
oooh, so between Io and this one, we are sure to find an underwater civilization! awesome.

How about the possibility of life existing beyond our planet? That doesn't suffice?

CosmicPal
03-09-2006, 01:20 PM
Let's go swimming!

Duck Dog
03-09-2006, 01:25 PM
How about the possibility of life existing beyond our planet? That doesn't suffice?


Can you imagine what that would do to religion?

dr00d
03-09-2006, 01:29 PM
How about the possibility of life existing beyond our planet? That doesn't suffice?

nah...we already know that exists...why do we need more proof? I want intelligent life! :)

dr00d
03-09-2006, 01:30 PM
Can you imagine what that would do to religion?

most zealots I know just write off that theory to the devil making crap up and conspiracy theories...etc. It is quite funny to hear their explanation.

Donger
03-09-2006, 01:31 PM
nah...we already know that exists

Where?

listopencil
03-09-2006, 01:38 PM
That's where my Sea Monkeys went! I haven't seen them since 1973.

listopencil
03-09-2006, 01:40 PM
http://www.zaldiva.com/images/ACTION%20FIGURES/SEAMONKEYS/seamonkeys_all_pic1.jpg

mike_b_284
03-09-2006, 01:41 PM
Where?
mars

Saulbadguy
03-09-2006, 01:42 PM
The bible told me there is no such thing.

Donger
03-09-2006, 01:46 PM
mars

Okay, what did I miss?

KcMizzou
03-09-2006, 01:49 PM
Okay, what did I miss?Bacteria, I believe.

Dave Lane
03-09-2006, 01:50 PM
The bible told me there is no such thing.


Cool which verse was that?

Dave

Donger
03-09-2006, 01:50 PM
Bacteria, I believe.

I don't think so.

ROYC75
03-09-2006, 01:53 PM
Scientists Find Water on Saturn Moon.


This explains the recent outbreak of n00bs ...... we've been found.

mike_b_284
03-09-2006, 01:54 PM
I don't think so.

Fossils of single celled organisms on the surface. The little robot that kept getting turned upside down took pictures of it.

mike_b_284
03-09-2006, 01:55 PM
I will find a link.

Donger
03-09-2006, 01:56 PM
I will find a link.

You're referring to this?

.

listopencil
03-09-2006, 01:57 PM
Fossils of single celled organisms on the surface. The little robot that kept getting turned upside down took pictures of it.


I think I saw on snopes.com where it turned out to be just macaroni and cheese that was spilled by some NASA geek.

beavis
03-09-2006, 01:58 PM
I want intelligent life! :)
You've come to the wrong place.

mike_b_284
03-09-2006, 02:06 PM
I didn't find one but I remember when it was big news. There were lots of aticles on the nasa site, all very technical, and a couple stories on cnn.com. Check it out, I have to go back to work.

ct
03-09-2006, 02:21 PM
I seem to remember the Martian bacteria find was on an asteroid found here on Earth. Was later suspected to be 'contaminated' with Earth-stuff.

DMAC
03-09-2006, 02:26 PM
If there is life in our our own solar system, think about the other billions and billions of other solar systems in those billions of galaxies!!

Now I AM a religious man, but come on!! There has to be intelligent life.

Donger
03-09-2006, 02:27 PM
I seem to remember the Martian bacteria find was on an asteroid found here on Earth. Was later suspected to be 'contaminated' with Earth-stuff.

I assume mike_b_284 is referring to ALH84001, which is pictured above. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALH84001

Donger
03-09-2006, 02:28 PM
If there is life in our our own solar system, think about the other billions and billions of other solar systems in those billions of galaxies!!

Now I AM a religious man, but come on!! There has to be intelligent life.

OMG. Sagan has returned from the dead!

ct
03-09-2006, 02:29 PM
I assume mike_b_284 is referring to ALH84001, which is pictured above. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALH84001

Beat me to it!

bkkcoh
03-09-2006, 02:31 PM
If there is life in our our own solar system, think about the other billions and billions of other solar systems in those billions of galaxies!!

Now I AM a religious man, but come on!! There has to be intelligent life.


We would be quite an arrogant society if we (collectively) think that we are the only intelligent life......


But then again, sometimes that is totally debatable, especially here on the planet....

C-Mac
03-09-2006, 02:35 PM
Scientific fact:Water does not prove life, it proves hydrogen and oxygen existed.
Bible fact: The bible mentions intelligent life on earth and intelligent life in a place called heaven. It does not specifically say that there is or isn't intelligent life beyond those.

ct
03-09-2006, 02:36 PM
oooh, so between Io and this one, we are sure to find an underwater civilization! awesome.

Europa, no Io.

morphius
03-09-2006, 02:50 PM
This is space related, and I don't really start many threads, so I'm posting it here. Interesting new theory on black holes/dark energy and dark matter, saying there may be no such thing as black holes, but they are actually black energy stars. The cool thing is that it doesn't break all the rules of quantum physics, and reguar physics that black holes do...

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18925423.600&feedId=online-news_rss20

DMAC
03-09-2006, 02:50 PM
OMG. Sagan has returned from the dead!
Yep, you find me out. But I go bye DMAC now. I thought it sounded cool!

DMAC
03-09-2006, 02:53 PM
This is space related, and I don't really start many threads, so I'm posting it here. Interesting new theory on black holes/dark energy and dark matter, saying there may be no such thing as black holes, but they are actually black energy stars. The cool thing is that it doesn't break all the rules of quantum physics, and reguar physics that black holes do...

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18925423.600&feedId=online-news_rss20
I always thought that black holes seemed a little sci fi. I mean, to have a star that collapses so much that it actually creates negative mass is very hard to believe.

keg in kc
03-09-2006, 02:55 PM
This is space related, and I don't really start many threads, so I'm posting it here. Interesting new theory on black holes/dark energy and dark matter, saying there may be no such thing as black holes, but they are actually black energy stars. The cool thing is that it doesn't break all the rules of quantum physics, and reguar physics that black holes do...Oh man, what's that do to wormholes and white holes and what really happened to Maximillian and Dr. Reinhardt?

morphius
03-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Oh man, what's that do to wormholes and white holes and what really happened to Maximillian and Dr. Reinhardt?
I don't think it would effect the possibility of worm holes, as worm holes are not necessarilly created by black holes.

The last part was interesting, if I read it right, the universe acts like one big version of a dark energy star.

DMAC - Yeah, there are so many things we just don't know enough about. I'm still trying to grasp how they guess at the age of the universe, especailly considering that time is relative, and I don't think time has always moved at the same pace even from the universes perspective.

chefsos
03-09-2006, 03:14 PM
I don't think it would effect the possibility of worm holes, as worm holes are not necessarilly created by black holes.

The last part was interesting, if I read it right, the universe acts like one big version of a dark energy star.

DMAC - Yeah, there are so many things we just don't know enough about. I'm still trying to grasp how they guess at the age of the universe, especailly considering that time is relative, and I don't think time has always moved at the same pace even from the universes perspective.
That caught my eye too, which begs a question: If it's true, what's outside of that? Another, larger universe? Wow, and I felt kinda small before.

morphius
03-09-2006, 03:21 PM
That caught my eye too, which begs a question: If it's true, what's outside of that? Another, larger universe? Wow, and I felt kinda small before.
Exactly! That and multiple dimensions are enough to make ones head hurt.

ct
03-09-2006, 03:23 PM
This is space related, and I don't really start many threads, so I'm posting it here. Interesting new theory on black holes/dark energy and dark matter, saying there may be no such thing as black holes, but they are actually black energy stars. The cool thing is that it doesn't break all the rules of quantum physics, and reguar physics that black holes do...

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18925423.600&feedId=online-news_rss20

Good stuff, thanks for the link! Very interesting!

FAX
03-09-2006, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the post, Mr. Donger. I dearly love this stuff and am proud that NASA has finally accomplished something other than blowing up rockets and losing spacecraft.

M theory is the coolest of all concepts. Developed from string theory, it postulates that there are an unlimited number of universes that spring from collisions of alternate dimensions in the 11th dimension which contains an unlimited number of dimensional fabrics. M theory mathmatics allow us to peek into the past beyond the big bang. The breakthrough came when a gal from Harvard demonstrated that gravity (the weakest of the 4 primal forces) is leaking from alternate universes into ours which is why it is so weak here.

If M theory is correct, there are countless alternate universes. In one of these, Mr. Rain Man could have several wives and wear a kilt made of tempered glass.

The new particle accelerator (being built in Texas, I believe) should provide additional proof that M theory is correct.

FAX

QuikSsurfer
03-09-2006, 03:53 PM
Can you imagine what that would do to religion?

that would be interesting to see

FAX
03-09-2006, 03:54 PM
If the little bacteria are wearing tiny turbans, we are f*cked.

FAX

Rain Man
03-09-2006, 03:57 PM
Thanks for the post, Mr. Donger. I dearly love this stuff and am proud that NASA has finally accomplished something other than blowing up rockets and losing spacecraft.

M theory is the coolest of all concepts. Developed from string theory, it postulates that there are an unlimited number of universes that spring from collisions of alternate dimensions in the 11th dimension which contains an unlimited number of dimensional fabrics. M theory mathmatics allow us to peek into the past beyond the big bang. The breakthrough came when a gal from Harvard demonstrated that gravity (the weakest of the 4 primal forces) is leaking from alternate universes into ours which is why it is so weak here.

If M theory is correct, there are countless alternate universes. In one of these, Mr. Rain Man could have several wives and wear a kilt made of tempered glass.

The new particle accelerator (being built in Texas, I believe) should provide additional proof that M theory is correct.

FAX

I personally prefer the M&M Theory, which postulates that we're only one of many universes, each separated from the others by a colorful candy shell.

morphius
03-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Thanks for the post, Mr. Donger. I dearly love this stuff and am proud that NASA has finally accomplished something other than blowing up rockets and losing spacecraft.

M theory is the coolest of all concepts. Developed from string theory, it postulates that there are an unlimited number of universes that spring from collisions of alternate dimensions in the 11th dimension which contains an unlimited number of dimensional fabrics. M theory mathmatics allow us to peek into the past beyond the big bang. The breakthrough came when a gal from Harvard demonstrated that gravity (the weakest of the 4 primal forces) is leaking from alternate universes into ours which is why it is so weak here.

If M theory is correct, there are countless alternate universes. In one of these, Mr. Rain Man could have several wives and wear a kilt made of tempered glass.

The new particle accelerator (being built in Texas, I believe) should provide additional proof that M theory is correct.

FAX
Have you watched this? Pretty interesting, and free to watch online from PBS...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

QuikSsurfer
03-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Bible fact: The bible mentions intelligent life on earth and intelligent life in a place called heaven. It does not specifically say that there is or isn't intelligent life beyond those.

typical

QuikSsurfer
03-09-2006, 04:00 PM
I personally prefer the M&M Theory, which postulates that we're only one of many universes, each separated from the others by a colorful candy shell.

what happens when we run out of colors????

morphius
03-09-2006, 04:00 PM
that would be interesting to see
Most religions have excepted the fact that there could be life out there. It would only really effect some of the most extreme of any religion.

FAX
03-09-2006, 04:17 PM
I personally prefer the M&M Theory, which postulates that we're only one of many universes, each separated from the others by a colorful candy shell.

Don't forget the Eminem theory, Mr. Rain Man, which states that the real universe stands up.

FAX

Donger
03-09-2006, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the post, Mr. Donger. I dearly love this stuff and am proud that NASA has finally accomplished something other than blowing up rockets and losing spacecraft.

M theory is the coolest of all concepts. Developed from string theory, it postulates that there are an unlimited number of universes that spring from collisions of alternate dimensions in the 11th dimension which contains an unlimited number of dimensional fabrics. M theory mathmatics allow us to peek into the past beyond the big bang. The breakthrough came when a gal from Harvard demonstrated that gravity (the weakest of the 4 primal forces) is leaking from alternate universes into ours which is why it is so weak here.

If M theory is correct, there are countless alternate universes. In one of these, Mr. Rain Man could have several wives and wear a kilt made of tempered glass.

The new particle accelerator (being built in Texas, I believe) should provide additional proof that M theory is correct.

FAX

You're welcome. Although I'd take issue with your take on NASA. Sure, they've done some really stupid stuff over the last few years, but let's not forget Apollo. After killing Grissom, White and Chaffee, of course.

And Hubble, after making it slightly myopic.

And the shuttle, after those two little oopsies.

Anyway, I just hope they scrap the remaining orbiters and that floating junkyard called ISS, and focus on more probes and the CEV.

And, hopefully they've learned the difference between metric and standard.

FAX
03-09-2006, 04:21 PM
Have you watched this? Pretty interesting, and free to watch online from PBS...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Awesome link, Mr. morphius. I had no idea this was available. Thanks. May the Muse of firm, proportional boobies take up permanent residence with your significant other.

FAX

JBucc
03-09-2006, 04:23 PM
In more important news, I just made a big pot of chicken 'n dumplings and I'm about to eat it.

FAX
03-09-2006, 04:32 PM
Man. I just realized that, in one of the alternate universes, a big chicken is probably having a big pot of Mr. JBucc and dumplings.

This M theory stuff may not be a good thing after all.

FAX

JBucc
03-09-2006, 04:34 PM
If I taste as good as I look, that wouldn't be so bad

listopencil
03-09-2006, 04:38 PM
what happens when we run out of colors????


We would never run out of colors. We would only fail to perceive those that we could not perceive with the unaided human eye.

listopencil
03-09-2006, 04:39 PM
In more important news, I just made a big pot of chicken 'n dumplings and I'm about to eat it.


I made that last night for dinner, but I cheated.

DMAC
03-09-2006, 04:41 PM
If I taste as good as I look, that wouldn't be so bad
mmmmmm....JBucc....ahhkklllaaaakkkllll....
http://www.paleocurrents.com/img/homer_drool.JPG

Simplex3
03-09-2006, 05:11 PM
And, hopefully they've learned the difference between metric and standard.

if (angle = 3) {
....

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Man. I just realized that, in one of the alternate universes, a big chicken is probably having a big pot of Mr. JBucc and dumplings.

This M theory stuff may not be a good thing after all.

FAX

Does this mean in an alternate universe I'm a country music superstar and Carrie Underwood is some loser in Oklahoma pining after me?

Donger
03-09-2006, 05:29 PM
More space news.

(CNN) -- NASA's latest mission to Mars could eclipse all previous ones if it can get into orbit on Friday.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter will study the Martian atmosphere and surface, and will probe underground in search of past and present water. But before it can collect data it has to slow down enough to get pulled into orbit -- a dangerous and tricky maneuver known as "orbit insertion."

NASA is 2 for 4 in recent attempts.

"In the last 15 years NASA's lost two spacecraft out of four that they sent to the planet in this very phase ... getting into orbit is not easy," said MRO Project Manager Jim Graf.

If successful, the payoff could be great -- the MRO is expected to return more data to Earth than all previous Mars missions combined.

"I think that this mission will re-write the science books on Mars," Graf said.

"Every time that we send different spacecraft to Mars they teach and poke at the planet -- its atmosphere, at the surface and, in our case, under the surface and they solve mysteries," he said.

MRO launched on August 12 atop an Atlas V rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.

The $720 million mission is part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program, a series of spacecraft sent to the planet to establish ongoing surface and orbit observations of the planet's climate and geography.

It will join Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity and fellow orbiters Mars Odyssey and Mars Global Surveyor and the European Space Agency's Mars Express.

The MRO carries six onboard instruments, including the most powerful telescopic camera ever flown to another planet.

With the spacecraft closing in on Mars it needs to fire its engines close enough to the planet in order to get captured by its gravity.

MRO project scientist, Dr. Rich Zurek says, "If there's a problem, we can't wait. We have to fix it and still be able to burn our engine" or the spacecraft will fly right on by the planet.

Sending and receiving commands is excruciatingly slow -- it takes 12 minutes for a signal from Earth to reach the orbiter. MRO has to take care of itself using an onboard computer programmed to make course corrections and fire the engines at a preset time.

That engine burn is set for Friday at 4:24 p.m. ET.
Timeline of events

The palm sweating begins at 3:50 p.m. ET when the orbiter pressurizes its fuel to make the burn strong enough to put it into orbit.

MRO will then orient itself and fire its six main thrusters for 27 minutes.

About 20 minutes into the burn the spacecraft will disappear behind Mars and out of radio contact with mission control.

"We don't get to see the burn to the point where we know we're captured," Zurek said. Instead they must wait for MRO to come back around the planet and send a signal.

"You get to wait, you're hearing nothing, and then you get that moment," Zurek said.

"If the spacecraft is able to send us that signal, that means it's been working enough that were probably in orbit." The navigation team will confirm the craft is in orbit 30 to 45 minutes after the signal.

"We have done everything we can on this project to be able to assure ourselves the maximum chance of getting into orbit successfully... there's a lot of people with a tremendous amount of confidence right now, but that being said, I'm still worrying," Graf said.
Aerobreaking

Once MRO is in orbit, the team will begin the 6-month process of changing the craft's initial 35-hour orbit to one that can whip it around Mars in less then 2 hours -- optimal for scientific observation.

This orbit adjustment process is called "aerobreaking" -- a high-wire space act where MRO makes small dips into the Martian atmosphere and uses the drag on the craft to slow it down just enough to change its orbit.

It's a delicate balance: "You don't want to go too deep, because if you do then the friction will overheat the components on the spacecraft," Zurek said.

Scientific observation is slated to begin in November and take place over two years -- one Martian year.

MRO will act as both a geological explorer and weather satellite.

Two instruments will study the Martian atmosphere, looking at cloud formation and seasonal temperature change. Zurek said, "The annual change on Mars is just like on the Earth, the seasons are pretty pronounced." The team wants to understand how long those seasons last. And how much water, and dust is moving around the atmosphere.

A powerful high-resolution camera will be able to see features on the planet as small as a kitchen table.

"We want to look for places where there was water for an extended period of time and potentially had an energy source, like a hot spring, because that's where you would expect life to have developed," Zurek said.

Italian Space Agency radar called SHARAD will probe a third of a mile below the surface for signs of water ice -- a big permafrost zone that may extend much deeper into the planet. Scientists suspect past water that was in the atmosphere might now be frozen deep underground.

The probe's sensors also will look for landing sites for future spacecraft including a manned mission to Mars.

Once observations are complete in December 2008 MRO will serve as a communications relay between future spacecraft and scientists back on Earth.

listopencil
03-09-2006, 05:29 PM
Does this mean in an alternate universe I'm a country music superstar and Carrie Underwood is some loser in Oklahoma pining after me?


No, I don't care how many universes there are. That's just not possible. Zero over infinity is still zero.

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 05:36 PM
No, I don't care how many universes there are. That's just not possible. Zero over infinity is still zero.

You're right. I could never be a country music superstar.

FAX
03-09-2006, 05:43 PM
You're right. I could never be a country music superstar.

Actually, according to M theory, you probably already are.

It's because there are an infinite number of alternate universes each containing another reality that is unique to that universe.

However, according to the physicists studying the issue, these alternate universes may not adhere to the same laws of physics we observe. So, rather than being a country music superstar, you might be a flognic albinater. But, you still get the chicks. Assuming, of course, that there are chicks in that universe.

FAX

Braincase
03-09-2006, 05:46 PM
Water near Saturn? Next thing ya know it's oil on Uranus.

4th and Long
03-09-2006, 05:47 PM
http://www.sfcanada.ca/spring2001/monolith.jpg
"My God, it's full of stars."

listopencil
03-09-2006, 05:48 PM
Actually, according to M theory, you probably already are.

It's because there are an infinite number of alternate universes each containing another reality that is unique to that universe.


FAX



You missed my earlier comment that zero divided by infinity is still zero.

Hydrae
03-09-2006, 06:07 PM
More space news.

(CNN) -- NASA's latest mission to Mars could eclipse all previous ones if it can get into orbit on Friday....

You know, I find this all very interesting and all but I still do not know why NASA is so hung up on Mars. We need to get better in all aspects of space travel and it would be less expensive and make more sense to stay a little closer to home for know. You know, set up a base on the moon to prove how to do it before sending someone on a 6 month space trip to Mars.

Of course the future of space travel isn't NASA anyway. It is people like Virgin and Rhutan. That is what I am saving my pennies for now, a weekend on a hotel in orbit!

morphius
03-09-2006, 06:10 PM
You know, I find this all very interesting and all but I still do not know why NASA is so hung up on Mars. We need to get better in all aspects of space travel and it would be less expensive and make more sense to stay a little closer to home for know. You know, set up a base on the moon to prove how to do it before sending someone on a 6 month space trip to Mars.

Of course the future of space travel isn't NASA anyway. It is people like Virgin and Rhutan. That is what I am saving my pennies for now, a weekend on a hotel in orbit!
They are working on that. We will go to the moon, and then to mars.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:13 PM
You know, if NASA can figure out a way to land a remote-controlled robot on Mars to collect rock samples, conduct spectrographs, and radio the test results back to earth for analysis, you would think that somebody could figure out a way for the Chiefs to win a playoff game.

FAX

listopencil
03-09-2006, 06:15 PM
You know, if NASA can figure out a way to land a remote-controlled robot on Mars to collect rock samples, conduct spectrographs, and radio the test results back to earth for analysis, you would think that somebody could figure out a way for the Chiefs to win a playoff game.

FAX


NASA would be substantially over the cap.

Hydrae
03-09-2006, 06:17 PM
They are working on that. We will go to the moon, and then to mars.


Actually I want to see them start under the ocean. I know we are talking lot's of outside pressure under the sea and the lack thereof in space but a lot of the concepts would be the same. Then when something goes wrong, they maybe rescuable whereas if something goes wrong on Mars, sorry guys!

I just finished a short little book that covered the Apollo program with a short synopsis of each flight. It was interesting and I learned a few things I didn't know before. But man did it get my juices for space flowign again. I was 9 when Armstrong took that first step and it was one of the highlights of my youth. But we haven't been back in over 30 years! :banghead:

Not trying to get this moved to the "other" forum but it really irritates me that we can spend 100's of billions of dollars fighting a war in Iraq but do so little in furthering ourselves as a race and a country.

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 06:18 PM
I'd definitely like to see us explore the seas more. There's stuff down there no one has ever seen. There could be some giant mysteries waiting to be discovered at the bottom of the ocean.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:24 PM
I'd definitely like to see us explore the seas more. There's stuff down there no one has ever seen. There could be some giant mysteries waiting to be discovered at the bottom of the ocean.

I saw an interesting documentary on this subject, Mr. goxlibutscrale (sp?). The reported that marine biologists estimate that the mid-water contains at least 1/3 of all the species on the entire earth and that only a small fraction of the animals that live at that depth have been identified or even seen. There is one species that eats plankton in such volume that they are responsible for maintaining earth temperature by controlling CO2. The earth is a marvelous and intricately balanced phenomenon.

Plus, whales are cool.

FAX

mike_b_284
03-09-2006, 06:24 PM
You missed my earlier comment that zero divided by infinity is still zero.

Chuck Norris can divide by zero.

morphius
03-09-2006, 06:27 PM
Actually I want to see them start under the ocean. I know we are talking lot's of outside pressure under the sea and the lack thereof in space but a lot of the concepts would be the same. Then when something goes wrong, they maybe rescuable whereas if something goes wrong on Mars, sorry guys!

I just finished a short little book that covered the Apollo program with a short synopsis of each flight. It was interesting and I learned a few things I didn't know before. But man did it get my juices for space flowign again. I was 9 when Armstrong took that first step and it was one of the highlights of my youth. But we haven't been back in over 30 years! :banghead:

Not trying to get this moved to the "other" forum but it really irritates me that we can spend 100's of billions of dollars fighting a war in Iraq but do so little in furthering ourselves as a race and a country.
While the seas are interesting, we do have people who do that all the time, its just not newsworthy unless they find something new.

But space on the otherhand has that level of excitiment to it that could get people really interested in it. Plus the fact that the sea doesn't do anything for us if we are trying to make our species less suceptiable to the next terrible thing that happens to the planet. But, as you mentioned, companies will be the future of space I think that is probably the best thing.

Anyone flying to Mars will know whats they are risking, so I'm not worried about it too much.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:29 PM
I think that the Turkish all fours walking people would make good astronauts. They wouldn't need to stand up so the spacecraft living quarters could be smaller and you would have more room for fuel.

Plus, when they're on the surface of Mars, they would be able to examine the rocks better because their faces would be closer to the ground.

FAX

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 06:30 PM
While the seas are interesting, we do have people who do that all the time, its just not newsworthy unless they find something new.

But space on the otherhand has that level of excitiment to it that could get people really interested in it. Plus the fact that the sea doesn't do anything for us if we are trying to make our species less suceptiable to the next terrible thing that happens to the planet.

I think he wants to throw more money at exploring the sea.

Imagine a vessel that could withstand such great pressure as to go lower than any human has gone before.

morphius
03-09-2006, 06:31 PM
I think he wants to throw more money at exploring the sea.

Imagine a vessel that could withstand such great pressure as to go lower than any human has gone before.
I know, but really there are people already trying to do that, I don't see why the gov't needs to throw more at it. I mean every year someone or something is seeing deeper down then before.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:32 PM
I think the Turkish all fours walking people would be excellent sea explorers because they are probably very good swimmers.

They're actually already doing a form of land dog paddling.

FAX

Hydrae
03-09-2006, 06:32 PM
While the seas are interesting, we do have people who do that all the time, its just not newsworthy unless they find something new.

But space on the otherhand has that level of excitiment to it that could get people really interested in it. Plus the fact that the sea doesn't do anything for us if we are trying to make our species less suceptiable to the next terrible thing that happens to the planet. But, as you mentioned, companies will be the future of space I think that is probably the best thing.


We have people living in domes under the ocean? That is what I am talking about. Not on the bottom of Mariana's Trench or anything, on the continental shelf would be a better place to start. Although I am sure we would find interesting things, I just want it for a closer way to experiment with different ways to live "outside" the atmosphere of the Earth.

And yes, one of the reasons I think it is very important to get in to space for exploration and possible colonization is to prolong the species. Much less to worry about from greenhouse effects, nuclear war or that killer meteor if we have a footing somewhere else.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:34 PM
I think the Turkish all fours walking people could survive a meteor strike better than most of us because they breathe air that is close to the ground.

They'll be the last to go in the event of severe greenhouse conditions as well.

FAX

morphius
03-09-2006, 06:34 PM
We have people living in domes under the ocean? That is what I am talking about. Not on the bottom of Mariana's Trench or anything, on the continental shelf would be a better place to start. Although I am sure we would find interesting things, I just want it for a closer way to experiment with different ways to live "outside" the atmosphere of the Earth.

And yes, one of the reasons I think it is very important to get in to space for exploration and possible colonization is to prolong the species. Much less to worry about from greenhouse effects, nuclear war or that killer meteor if we have a footing somewhere else.
Of course we don't have someone living under the ocean, you think greenpeace and friends wouldn't try to block that because we would destroy some fishes habitat.

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:39 PM
I think the Turkish all fours walking people would be good deep sea settlers because they are the natural enemies of greenpeace advocates.

They are half man / half all fours walking. That means that the greenpeace people won't know whether to accuse them of something or try to save their species.

FAX

Hydrae
03-09-2006, 06:41 PM
Of course we don't have someone living under the ocean, you think greenpeace and friends wouldn't try to block that because we would destroy some fishes habitat.


Oh don't get me started on that sort of thing! I love this planet and am a big animal lover but when I hear about them not allowing a church to build on land they have owned for many years because some minor species of gecko lives in that 2 square miles of land and nowhere else on the planet, my head wants to explode! Heck, I believe God told to go forth, multiply (do your math! :) ) and subdue the Earth.

I would rather upset a few fish and greenies while still having a little safer place to experiment.

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 06:42 PM
And yes, one of the reasons I think it is very important to get in to space for exploration and possible colonization is to prolong the species.

You mean finding another habitable planet?

I think we should use the moon as a prison colony. :D

Hydrae
03-09-2006, 06:42 PM
Ok Mr Fax. I must have missed something in the 1/2 day I was not here on this Planet. What is with the Turkish four walking people???

FAX
03-09-2006, 06:47 PM
Ok Mr Fax. I must have missed something in the 1/2 day I was not here on this Planet. What is with the Turkish four walking people???

They are fascinating, Mr. Hydrae. I started a thread about them the other day. If I knew how to post a thread link like other posters can, I would do so.

But, you can google the words, "Turkish All Fours Walking People" and bring up several results.

Basically, they are (supposedly) examples of genetic reversal in which the entire family has a genetic trait that reverted them to only being able to walk on all fours. I think they would make good lineman except for on pulling plays.

FAX

Skip Towne
03-09-2006, 06:49 PM
Actually, according to M theory, you probably already are.

It's because there are an infinite number of alternate universes each containing another reality that is unique to that universe.

However, according to the physicists studying the issue, these alternate universes may not adhere to the same laws of physics we observe. So, rather than being a country music superstar, you might be a flognic albinater. But, you still get the chicks. Assuming, of course, that there are chicks in that universe.

FAX
Flognic Albinaters are so over rated.

Adept Havelock
03-09-2006, 06:58 PM
Forget swimming. Use it as a fuel stop for the outer system.

morphius
03-09-2006, 07:23 PM
Forget swimming. Use it as a fuel stop for the outer system.
That was my thought. A lot easier to get water off of a small moon, then try to life off with it from Earth.

tiptap
03-09-2006, 08:23 PM
I don't think it would effect the possibility of worm holes, as worm holes are not necessarilly created by black holes.

The last part was interesting, if I read it right, the universe acts like one big version of a dark energy star.

DMAC - Yeah, there are so many things we just don't know enough about. I'm still trying to grasp how they guess at the age of the universe, especailly considering that time is relative, and I don't think time has always moved at the same pace even from the universes perspective.


The speed of light is the speed limit for interaction. It doesn't matter if the speed of light can be thought of speeding up or down in the past. The speed limit means that the pace of the universe would speed up or slow down at the same pace and not independently. For example there are parts of our universe moving away from earth at speeds greater than the speed of light. Now the componets within the universe all never exceed the speed of light but the universe itself expanding adds to the speed relative to earth. You add something near light speed to the accelerating expansion to get faster than light movement away from us.

However things move faster the farther they are away from us. So there is NO indication that the universe has slowed down. Or that light within the universe has slowed down. Relativity is about everything being relative EXCEPT the speed of light. There is no outside the universe location to see the speed of light change. That would be a Newtonian concept. The notion of absolute motion.

We know things are speeding faster away from us because the specific absorption spectra of say Hydrogen or any element occurs at a specific wavelength. And yet when we look at distant objects that wavelength is red shifted like the passing siren in sound and more so the more distant an object as the universe stretches the light as it expands.

We then use parallax to determine the distances to the reference stars, about 200 light years out into the galaxy. We know the distance therefore and the energy profile for all these stars. And since the mass dictates the color (energy profile) we can look for that profile further out into space and using the inverse light intensity law determine how far those stars are from us. 15 billion light years which is a distance and doesn't reflect change even if light speed could change because we are only talking about intensity of light, not speed, in determining distance.

It is interesting to understand that for most people before 1500 heaven and sky were the same physical reality to look up at. A literal definition of heaven. Not some spooky spiritual realm. Talk about a literal interpretation should hold for heaven.

That has all shifted since the findings of the telescope that removed the earth from the center of existence. And with the delivery of men to the moon which seems much more boastful than a tower of babel to get to heaven.

But it is true there is still alot we do not know about space, earth and its denizens.

tiptap
03-09-2006, 08:36 PM
You're welcome. Although I'd take issue with your take on NASA. Sure, they've done some really stupid stuff over the last few years, but let's not forget Apollo. After killing Grissom, White and Chaffee, of course.

And Hubble, after making it slightly myopic.

And the shuttle, after those two little oopsies.

Anyway, I just hope they scrap the remaining orbiters and that floating junkyard called ISS, and focus on more probes and the CEV.

And, hopefully they've learned the difference between metric and standard.

And how many ships have been sunk initially and even recently (Titianic) crossing the oceans.

The reality is that we will have to send robots first. Send them out into space to build/transform asterorids or such into hollowed spacecraft. The reason is that the amount of cosmic rays one would recieve going to Mars would end up causing cancers in half the crew. And pretty quickly. Women would be more vulnerable. We would need a thick walled craft in the hundreds of tons range in order to make trips through even our solar system. So invest in the robotics space race at this point and accelerate our entry into space down the line.

FAX
03-09-2006, 08:45 PM
Or, we could use the Turkish all fours walking people.

They're already pretty f*cked up.

FAX

Rain Man
03-09-2006, 08:48 PM
Actually, according to M theory, you probably already are.

It's because there are an infinite number of alternate universes each containing another reality that is unique to that universe.

However, according to the physicists studying the issue, these alternate universes may not adhere to the same laws of physics we observe. So, rather than being a country music superstar, you might be a flognic albinater. But, you still get the chicks. Assuming, of course, that there are chicks in that universe.

FAX


But then of course they might be real chicks instead of women, which would be bad unless your alternate universe was in the state of Washington.

JBucc
03-09-2006, 08:50 PM
I believe FAX has a four legged turkish people fetish

Rain Man
03-09-2006, 08:54 PM
I believe FAX has a four legged turkish people fetish

The scientific term for this is quadruturkophilia.

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 08:58 PM
The scientific term for this is quadruturkophilia.

You need to write a book or something.

FAX
03-09-2006, 09:08 PM
The scientific term for this is quadruturkophilia.

This is not particularly good news, Mr. Rain Man.

I hope that there's a Turkish All Fours Walking People Anonymous meeting somewhere nearby.

I don't suppose they would call it a 12 step program, though.

FAX

Count Alex's Wins
03-09-2006, 09:09 PM
This is not particularly good news, Mr. Rain Man.

I hope that there's a Turkish All Fours Walking People Anonymous meeting somewhere nearby.

I don't suppose they would call it a 12 step program, though.

FAX

Stop talking to yourself, Kevin.

Rain Man
03-09-2006, 09:12 PM
I am but a mere shadow of FAX. My limericks often don't even rhyme.

morphius
03-09-2006, 09:24 PM
tiptap - I have red shift and the like down.

As for looking from the outside, well, that depends on if there are more dimensions or not. If there is, then it could be possible.

I'll have to ponder more on the light subject, hmmm.

listopencil
03-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Flognic Albinaters are so over rated.

Qegbat*f Ze36etz was a hell of a Flognic Albinater but no one ever gave him/her any credit. That's bullshit.

Adept Havelock
03-09-2006, 09:49 PM
You mean finding another habitable planet?

I think we should use the moon as a prison colony. :D

TANSTAFFL!

QuikSsurfer
03-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Most religions have excepted the fact that there could be life out there. It would only really effect some of the most extreme of any religion.

if it were proven, in our lifetime, that life exists outside of our planet... it would affect a LOT of people (billions). realistically :)

Dunit35
03-09-2006, 10:39 PM
How can there be life on another planet? If your in space...you can walk on Mars..but you can't actually walk on Earth. So how do the aliens or whatever get inside Mars?

Is anyone following what I am saying?

FAX
03-09-2006, 10:45 PM
How can there be life on another planet? If your in space...you can walk on Mars..but you can't actually walk on Earth. So how do the aliens or whatever get inside Mars?

Is anyone following what I am saying?

No clue here, Mr. Dunit35.

Are you saying that you can't walk on Earth because you're in space and there's no gravity? Or, are you saying that aliens have no legs? Or, are you using Mars as a metaphor for a woman's treasure trove of pleasure? Or, is this some form of allegory in which Mars is Satan and Earth represents the redeemer who is beyond both the reach and understanding of mere mortals?

FAX

morphius
03-09-2006, 10:45 PM
if it were proven, in our lifetime, that life exists outside of our planet... it would affect a LOT of people (billions). realistically :)
Um, yeah. but I don't think that was the point of your reply. I think you were hinting how you thought people who believe in religion are stupid, and that finding life on other planets would show them all to be the stupid people you think they are, only know they would have to face that fact....

morphius
03-09-2006, 10:49 PM
No clue here, Mr. Dunit35.

Are you saying that you can't walk on Earth because you're in space and there's no gravity? Or, are you saying that aliens have no legs? Or, are you using Mars as a metaphor for a woman's treasure trove of pleasure? Or, is this some form of allegory in which Mars is Satan and Earth represents the redeemer who is beyond both the reach and understanding of mere mortals?

FAX
I think he must be talking about how men are from Mars, and that he likes it when I nice little asian woman walks all over his back for a really deep massage. But you can't actually walk on Earth, because reality is just...

Ohhh ****, I have no bloody idea.

Dunit35
03-09-2006, 10:57 PM
No clue here, Mr. Dunit35.

Are you saying that you can't walk on Earth because you're in space and there's no gravity? Or, are you saying that aliens have no legs? Or, are you using Mars as a metaphor for a woman's treasure trove of pleasure? Or, is this some form of allegory in which Mars is Satan and Earth represents the redeemer who is beyond both the reach and understanding of mere mortals?

FAX


I mean they can actually walk on the planet Mars. But while in space we can't walk on Earth, we just go into our atmosphere. I wish someone knew what I was talking about. We can walk on Mars but we can't get inside the planet.

morphius
03-09-2006, 11:03 PM
I mean they can actually walk on the planet Mars. But while in space we can't walk on Earth, we just go into our atmosphere. I wish someone knew what I was talking about. We can walk on Mars but we can't get inside the planet.
Mars has an atmosphere as well, its just lost a lot of it over the years because it lacks a strong magnetic field to protect it from the solar winds. Plus its lack of gravity doesn't help either.

No Venus you can't walk on, because its atmosphere would crush you like being under water.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2006, 11:48 PM
NASA would be substantially over the cap.

Rep

Donger
03-10-2006, 03:21 PM
More space news.

(CNN) -- NASA's latest mission to Mars could eclipse all previous ones if it can get into orbit on Friday.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter will study the Martian atmosphere and surface, and will probe underground in search of past and present water. But before it can collect data it has to slow down enough to get pulled into orbit -- a dangerous and tricky maneuver known as "orbit insertion."

NASA is 2 for 4 in recent attempts.

"In the last 15 years NASA's lost two spacecraft out of four that they sent to the planet in this very phase ... getting into orbit is not easy," said MRO Project Manager Jim Graf.

If successful, the payoff could be great -- the MRO is expected to return more data to Earth than all previous Mars missions combined.

"I think that this mission will re-write the science books on Mars," Graf said.

"Every time that we send different spacecraft to Mars they teach and poke at the planet -- its atmosphere, at the surface and, in our case, under the surface and they solve mysteries," he said.

MRO launched on August 12 atop an Atlas V rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.

The $720 million mission is part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program, a series of spacecraft sent to the planet to establish ongoing surface and orbit observations of the planet's climate and geography.

It will join Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity and fellow orbiters Mars Odyssey and Mars Global Surveyor and the European Space Agency's Mars Express.

The MRO carries six onboard instruments, including the most powerful telescopic camera ever flown to another planet.

With the spacecraft closing in on Mars it needs to fire its engines close enough to the planet in order to get captured by its gravity.

MRO project scientist, Dr. Rich Zurek says, "If there's a problem, we can't wait. We have to fix it and still be able to burn our engine" or the spacecraft will fly right on by the planet.

Sending and receiving commands is excruciatingly slow -- it takes 12 minutes for a signal from Earth to reach the orbiter. MRO has to take care of itself using an onboard computer programmed to make course corrections and fire the engines at a preset time.

That engine burn is set for Friday at 4:24 p.m. ET.
Timeline of events

The palm sweating begins at 3:50 p.m. ET when the orbiter pressurizes its fuel to make the burn strong enough to put it into orbit.

MRO will then orient itself and fire its six main thrusters for 27 minutes.

About 20 minutes into the burn the spacecraft will disappear behind Mars and out of radio contact with mission control.

"We don't get to see the burn to the point where we know we're captured," Zurek said. Instead they must wait for MRO to come back around the planet and send a signal.

"You get to wait, you're hearing nothing, and then you get that moment," Zurek said.

"If the spacecraft is able to send us that signal, that means it's been working enough that were probably in orbit." The navigation team will confirm the craft is in orbit 30 to 45 minutes after the signal.

"We have done everything we can on this project to be able to assure ourselves the maximum chance of getting into orbit successfully... there's a lot of people with a tremendous amount of confidence right now, but that being said, I'm still worrying," Graf said.
Aerobreaking

Once MRO is in orbit, the team will begin the 6-month process of changing the craft's initial 35-hour orbit to one that can whip it around Mars in less then 2 hours -- optimal for scientific observation.

This orbit adjustment process is called "aerobreaking" -- a high-wire space act where MRO makes small dips into the Martian atmosphere and uses the drag on the craft to slow it down just enough to change its orbit.

It's a delicate balance: "You don't want to go too deep, because if you do then the friction will overheat the components on the spacecraft," Zurek said.

Scientific observation is slated to begin in November and take place over two years -- one Martian year.

MRO will act as both a geological explorer and weather satellite.

Two instruments will study the Martian atmosphere, looking at cloud formation and seasonal temperature change. Zurek said, "The annual change on Mars is just like on the Earth, the seasons are pretty pronounced." The team wants to understand how long those seasons last. And how much water, and dust is moving around the atmosphere.

A powerful high-resolution camera will be able to see features on the planet as small as a kitchen table.

"We want to look for places where there was water for an extended period of time and potentially had an energy source, like a hot spring, because that's where you would expect life to have developed," Zurek said.

Italian Space Agency radar called SHARAD will probe a third of a mile below the surface for signs of water ice -- a big permafrost zone that may extend much deeper into the planet. Scientists suspect past water that was in the atmosphere might now be frozen deep underground.

The probe's sensors also will look for landing sites for future spacecraft including a manned mission to Mars.

Once observations are complete in December 2008 MRO will serve as a communications relay between future spacecraft and scientists back on Earth.

Four minutes until burn. Any takers?

Donger
03-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Wow. They did it. MRO is in orbit around Mars.

Hydrae
03-10-2006, 04:31 PM
Wow. They did it. MRO is in orbit around Mars.


Do they have any plans to check out the "face"?

Donger
03-10-2006, 04:36 PM
Do they have any plans to check out the "face"?

That's already been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Martian_face_mgs.jpg

The MRO has a camera that has resolution of .3 meters at a height of 300 km. That's good enough to take a close up of an object the size of kitchen table from orbit.

Rooster
03-10-2006, 04:42 PM
I mean they can actually walk on the planet Mars. But while in space we can't walk on Earth, we just go into our atmosphere. I wish someone knew what I was talking about. We can walk on Mars but we can't get inside the planet.

Man I am so confused right now. :(

morphius
03-10-2006, 04:52 PM
Wow. They did it. MRO is in orbit around Mars.
Cool. As many years as some people put in these things it is good to see them succeed.

morphius
03-10-2006, 04:53 PM
Cofused so am I man right now. :(

I don't normally fix people's posts, but this seemed more fitting.

FAX
03-10-2006, 04:58 PM
Do they have any plans to check out the "face"?

I doubt they will pay inordinate attention to it, Mr. Hydrae. The NASA clones say that the "face" and the surrounding topography (including the pyramidal structures) are nothing more than natural phenomina in order to not upset their government masters.

The NASA line is that interpreting these monuments as possible alien artifacts is nonsense. They'd rather look for water.

For my part, I hope that the face opens it's massive maw and spews ancient Martian puke on their orbiter.

FAX

morphius
03-10-2006, 05:06 PM
I doubt they will pay inordinate attention to it, Mr. Hydrae. The NASA clones say that the "face" and the surrounding topography (including the pyramidal structures) are nothing more than natural phenomina in order to not upset their government masters.

The NASA line is that interpreting these monuments as possible alien artifacts is nonsense. They'd rather look for water.

For my part, I hope that the face opens it's massive maw and spews ancient Martian puke on their orbiter.

FAX
They already have better photo's of it...

sheesh.

Rausch
03-10-2006, 05:51 PM
No Venus you can't walk on, because its atmosphere would crush you like being under water.

And it rains acid. That would seriously **** with your sinuses...

morphius
03-10-2006, 05:54 PM
And it rains acid. That would seriously **** with your sinuses...
Luckily, allergies are not a major issue.

FAX
03-10-2006, 06:00 PM
They already have better photo's of it...

sheesh.

You're right, of course, Mr. morphius. They do have pictures.

But, I want them to land and drill so we can explore the Martian king's ancient tomb which will contain important scientific hieroglyphics and priceless parchments that explain in detail the origin of the human race, who God is, the secret of life, why dogs dream, and how to make a decent dumpling that doesn't get soggy.

FAX

ExtremeChief
03-10-2006, 07:08 PM
Send the goveranator to turn on the atmosphere machine

morphius
03-10-2006, 07:11 PM
I doubt they will pay inordinate attention to it, Mr. Hydrae. The NASA clones say that the "face" and the surrounding topography (including the pyramidal structures) are nothing more than natural phenomina in order to not upset their government masters.

The NASA line is that interpreting these monuments as possible alien artifacts is nonsense. They'd rather look for water.

For my part, I hope that the face opens it's massive maw and spews ancient Martian puke on their orbiter.

FAX
I do not believe the four legged turkish walkers would be pleased.

morphius
03-13-2006, 02:10 PM
Okay, I just have to vent a little bit as I was looking at Google Mars today. Can someone, anyone, explain to me why the **** NASA does everything in black and white or false color? What the hell is that crap, its not like this is the gawd damn 1930's here. Everything is either false color or black and white, I mean really, what are we supposed to get from that? Are they worried that somehow we will lose a military advantage if we found something worthwhile out there and the rest of the world was able to look at it as well? Its just damn annoying.

Morphius
This was brought to you by the really lame bitch sessions and the number i.

C-Mac
03-13-2006, 04:57 PM
Okay, I just have to vent a little bit as I was looking at Google Mars today. Can someone, anyone, explain to me why the **** NASA does everything in black and white or false color? What the hell is that crap, its not like this is the gawd damn 1930's here. Everything is either false color or black and white, I mean really, what are we supposed to get from that? Are they worried that somehow we will lose a military advantage if we found something worthwhile out there and the rest of the world was able to look at it as well? Its just damn annoying.

Morphius
This was brought to you by the really lame bitch sessions and the number i.

Oh.... didnt you get your official NASA Mars Viewing Glasses yet?