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Archie F. Swin
03-21-2006, 09:29 PM
I know this thread comes up every few weeks, but there's plenty of bandwidth for all planeteers, and hey, its the off-season!

I'd like to hear from you seasoned vets out there on a solid formula for negotiating a new car purchase. I've done plenty o' research on the car(s) I'm considering ,and I know my target prices. I've looked into associated fees and rebates and I feel I'm ready to approach the dealer.

One disadvantage I have is this is a one dealer/per make town. In other words, there's only one Ford dealer, one Honda dealer, one Nissan dealer and so forth. if I cant get things done here in town...I may have to drive 150 miles to Dallas or Oklahoma City. :shake:

Help me get my game face on :mad:

Bacon Cheeseburger
03-21-2006, 09:33 PM
Have your own financing lined up before you go, most of the horror stories I've heard originate in the F&I office.

trndobrd
03-21-2006, 09:36 PM
I know this thread comes up every few weeks, but there's plenty of bandwidth for all planeteers, and hey, its the off-season!

I'd like to hear from you seasoned vets out there on a solid formula for negotiating a new car purchase. I've done plenty o' research on the car(s) I'm considering ,and I know my target prices. I've looked into associated fees and rebates and I feel I'm ready to approach the dealer.

One disadvantage I have is this is a one dealer/per make town. In other words, there's only one Ford dealer, one Honda dealer, one Nissan dealer and so forth. if I cant get things done here in town...I may have to drive 150 miles to Dallas or Oklahoma City. :shake:

Help me get my game face on :mad:


I you know the make and model, etc. you can call the dealer 150 miles away and work a deal.

Cochise
03-21-2006, 09:37 PM
Have your own financing lined up before you go, most of the horror stories I've heard originate in the F&I office.

Definitely... don't get them to make concessions only to have to fight them back down on other parts of the deal.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/ has a lot of good information.

PastorMikH
03-21-2006, 09:39 PM
I you know the make and model, etc. you can call the dealer 150 miles away and work a deal.



I'm probably not even that far away if you want some phone #s of dealers to use as ammo.


Personally, I like to play dealers against each other until they finally get down to a decent amount. However, some dealers get really irritated at this kind of tactic.

Also, if you don't like extremely high sales pressure, stay away from Ok City.

Miles
03-21-2006, 09:52 PM
I you know the make and model, etc. you can call the dealer 150 miles away and work a deal.

Defintly agree with the advice. Call up some DFW dealerships and start talking to them. It may be hard to negotiate the best deal with them on the phone but they will defintly talk. I bought my last car by pretty much calling all over TX and ironically ended up buying it from someone in Wichita Falls.

If you get somewhere with them go to your local dealership and try and get them to beat it. If that doesnt work then you at least have a good lead in DFW if you need to drive in and work out something you like. You may also try calling some Houston dealers to get some prices to play against the DFW ones.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:10 PM
The new Tahoes rule, you can't buy a better car or SUV.




[/rexjake]

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:16 PM
The best way to do it is the old bait-and-switch. Get them thinking they'll get to screw you somewhere, get the other details all lined out, then yank that rug out from under them.

Getting your own financing is one good way to do that. I also beat them down on the price, then when the price is as low as I think I can get it I insist they throw in an extended warranty. I've never bought a car without it, but I buy new. Not sure how that goes over with the used guys. Then, when they're getting ready to take you in to the finance guy and bend you over let them in on the little secret that you already have a loan.

The biggest two tricks are:

1. Be prepared to walk away and DO if you aren't getting a great deal.
2. Don't fall in love with a specific car. There's another one just like it not that far away, and if there isn't it's because nobody bought them or they've all fallen apart.

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:24 PM
The new Tahoes rule, you can't buy a better car or SUV.




[/rexjake]

A better investment would be to invest the money in some GM stock. After it appreciates you can spend your earnings on one of the many great offerings GM is comming up with. With all the troubles they have had from being a shit company all these years you can't miss.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:25 PM
A better investment would be to invest the money in some GM stock. After it appreciates you can spend your earnings on one of the many great offerings GM is comming up with. With all the troubles they have had from being a shit company all these years you can't miss.
I damn near forgot that their stock is going up 250% in the next year. Thanks for reminding me, I'm pulling out my kids' college funds and investing it.

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:30 PM
The biggest two tricks are:

1. Be prepared to walk away and DO if you aren't getting a great deal.
2. Don't fall in love with a specific car. There's another one just like it not that far away, and if there isn't it's because nobody bought them or they've all fallen apart.

Completly agree. Those two are huge.

Especially don't fall in love with a particular car when you have as big of a market as DFW to look in.

Another is that you shouldn't worry about annoying or even pissing of some salesman or his manager. There are other dealerships.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 10:33 PM
I know this thread comes up every few weeks, but there's plenty of bandwidth for all planeteers, and hey, its the off-season!

I'd like to hear from you seasoned vets out there on a solid formula for negotiating a new car purchase. I've done plenty o' research on the car(s) I'm considering ,and I know my target prices. I've looked into associated fees and rebates and I feel I'm ready to approach the dealer.

One disadvantage I have is this is a one dealer/per make town. In other words, there's only one Ford dealer, one Honda dealer, one Nissan dealer and so forth. if I cant get things done here in town...I may have to drive 150 miles to Dallas or Oklahoma City. :shake:

Help me get my game face on :mad:

wait for summer...

markup is 15-20 %... you can get some off except hot sellers like mustang, tahoe, solstice, camry etc

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:35 PM
I damn near forgot that their stock is going up 250% in the next year. Thanks for reminding me, I'm pulling out my kids' college funds and investing it.

Ignore those recent reports about the state of the US auto industry. I have a tip for you, but please don't tell anyone at the SEC you got this from me. Im a bit of an insider and know how these things work. You should buy as many share as possible to maximize your gains. Can't miss...GM is the greatest ever.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:39 PM
Ignore those recent reports about the state of the US auto industry. I have a tip for you, but please don't tell anyone at the SEC you got this from me. Im a bit of an insider and know how these things work. You should buy as many share as possible to maximize your gains. Can't miss...GM is the greatest ever.
Is your dad a retired union laborer too?!?!? :eek:

recxjake
03-21-2006, 10:41 PM
Is your dad a retired union laborer too?!?!? :eek:


i know you have a great time ripping GM... but get the facts straight...

my dad isn't a retired laborer... he works for GMAC... far cry from an assembly worker

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:44 PM
Is your dad a retired union laborer too?!?!? :eek:

Only 34 years though. 35 is the impressive number. Have I told you about their great new linup of shitty cars yet? The waitlist will be really long so you might as well buy now. You can even pay for one by shorting GM stock... Wait that can't be right.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:50 PM
Only 34 years though. 35 is the impressive number. Have I told you about their great new linup of shitty cars yet? The waitlist will be really long so you might as well buy now. You can even pay for one by shorting GM stock... Wait that can't be right.
I wouldn't even trust GM to tank right.

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't even trust GM to tank right.

No shit. It would just go up in the short term to f*ck you.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 10:55 PM
No shit. It would just go up in the short term to f*ck you.

up 5% today

beavis
03-21-2006, 10:57 PM
up 5% today
If it sniffs 30 in the next year, I'll eat a sh!t sandwich.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 10:58 PM
If it sniffs 30 in the next year, I'll eat a sh!t sandwich.

Ill take that bet

Miles
03-21-2006, 10:58 PM
up 5% today

Nice, since I evaluate investments daily I'm set then.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 10:58 PM
i know you have a great time ripping GM... but get the facts straight...

my dad isn't a retired laborer... he works for GMAC... far cry from an assembly worker

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:00 PM
haha... i'd love for you to check out his bank account

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:02 PM
oh yea... i forgot... i'm headin to law school... nice try though

Miles
03-21-2006, 11:03 PM
haha... i'd love for you to check out his bank account

You make a great irrelevant point.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:03 PM
haha... i'd love for you to check out his bank account
You assess a human's worth by the number at the bottom of their bank statement? That's a sad testiment to the way he raised you.


.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:06 PM
oh yea... i forgot... i'm headin to law school... nice try though
So the spawn of a union worker who is ruining the company he works for is going to become a piece of s**t lawyer? Somebody needs to end your family line now.


.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:06 PM
You assess a human's worth by the number at the bottom of their bank statement? That's a sad testiment to the way he raised you.


.


I was referring to how you called him and I "worthless" yet he is worth millions, and I'm heading to law school..... by the looks of it your the "worthless" one buddy

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:07 PM
So the spawn of a union worker who is ruining the company he works for is going to become a piece of s**t lawyer? Somebody needs to end your family line now.


.

get this through your head... my dad works for GMAC... NO UNIONS.... ill be making more in a year then you'll make in a decade

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:07 PM
I was referring to how you called him and I "worthless" yet he is worth millions, and I'm heading to law school..... by the looks of it your the "worthless" one buddy
Trust me, the way you just missed my point you won't be GRADUATING from law school. Or passing the bar.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:09 PM
get this through your head... my dad works for GMAC... NO UNIONS.... ill be making more in a year then you'll make in a decade
First, the size of your paycheck doesn't make the man. Second, be careful who you say s**t like that to on a forum like this. There are people in here that make far more than you know. You don't know jack about me, yet you feel comfortable stating, as fact, that you'll make more than me. That just proves what a dumbass you are.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:14 PM
First, the size of your paycheck doesn't make the man. Second, be careful who you say s**t like that to on a forum like this. There are people in here that make far more than you know. You don't know jack about me, yet you feel comfortable stating, as fact, that you'll make more than me. That just proves what a dumbass you are.

haha... your really not worth my time.... but at least we agree on the size of your paycheck doesn't make a man

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:19 PM
recxjake:

On a serious note. No man has ever been on his death bed, moments before the end, and wished he'd made more money. I hope for your sake one day you figure that out. A man's actions and karma are what will be remembered, not his bank balance.

You're still very young and probably still 12ft tall and bulletproof, not to mention the fact that you know how to solve every situation. I was the same way when I was in my late teens. One thing that age and experience have taught me is that I don't know s**t. Every day I learn at least one new thing and figure out there are five times as many things I don't know.

I can tell you this, if you want to be a lawyer you're going to have to let go of your opinions and embrace the opinions of others. It will be your job. Think about that for a while before you devote the next several years working towards your JD.

Miles
03-21-2006, 11:20 PM
I was referring to how you called him and I "worthless" yet he is worth millions, and I'm heading to law school..... by the looks of it your the "worthless" one buddy

Lucily for you logical reasoning and ability to decipher different meanings of the same word are abilities that play a key role in law school.

ChiefsLV
03-21-2006, 11:21 PM
The ego is so thick in here you could cut it with a knife, er yeah.

Oh yeah, my Grand Prix sucks. I get to waste my time taking it back to the dealer for the third straight time this weekend for the same problem that has been fixed two times previous.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:22 PM
recxjake:

On a serious note. No man has ever been on his death bed, moments before the end, and wished he'd made more money. I hope for your sake one day you figure that out. A man's actions and karma are what will be remembered, not his bank balance.

You're still very young and probably still 12ft tall and bulletproof, not to mention the fact that you know how to solve every situation. I was the same way when I was in my late teens. One thing that age and experience have taught me is that I don't know s**t. Every day I learn at least one new thing and figure out there are five times as many things I don't know.

I can tell you this, if you want to be a lawyer you're going to have to let go of your opinions and embrace the opinions of others. It will be your job. Think about that for a while before you devote the next several years working towards your JD.


that makes sense... thanks alot man.... i was just messing around anyway

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:22 PM
haha... your really not worth my time.... but at least we agree on the size of your paycheck doesn't make a man
1. It's you're, not your
2. Your posts defending your father by the size of his bank balance and defending your own value by the amount of money you'll make as a lawyer while devaluing me based on how little you're sure I make kind of point to the fact that we DON'T agree on your last point.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:23 PM
The ego is so thick in here you could cut it with a knife, er yeah.

Oh yeah, my Grand Prix sucks. I get to waste my time taking it back to the dealer for the third straight time this weekend for the same problem that has been fixed two times previous.

what year is it??

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:24 PM
1. It's you're, not your
2. Your posts defending your father by the size of his bank balance and defending your own value by the amount of money you'll make as a lawyer while devaluing me based on how little you're sure I make kind of point to the fact that we DON'T agree on your last point.

this is a football forum... i dont use proper grammer or spelling!

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:24 PM
The ego is so thick in here...
I was sure it was spelled "b-u-l-l-s-*-*-t"?

Miles
03-21-2006, 11:24 PM
The ego is so thick in here you could cut it with a knife, er yeah.

Oh yeah, my Grand Prix sucks. I get to waste my time taking it back to the dealer for the third straight time this weekend for the same problem that has been fixed two times previous.

I think you may have missed the thick sarcasm on most of these posts.

ChiefsLV
03-21-2006, 11:25 PM
what year is it??


2004, the first year that guy came over from BMW and supposedly was supposed to make a nicer Pontiac. There are things I like about the car though or I wouldnt have bought it. It's just that the continued problems have been kinda frustrating. I got the extended warranty though so I only have to deal with wasting time rather than wasting time AND money.

Simplex3
03-21-2006, 11:26 PM
this is a football forum... i dont use proper grammer or spelling!
That would be "grammar". I always catch that one because I got spanked that exact same way two years ago.

Just as an FYI, you wouldn't believe how many people from here you'll run into in the real world. Best to always put your best foot forward, just in case.

Miles
03-21-2006, 11:30 PM
That would be "grammar". I always catch that one because I got spanked that exact same way two years ago.


I have never cared much about that at all unless a post is unreadable or has Hello - commatard on the loose.,

Though I try to practice good habits unless I'm wasted.

recxjake
03-21-2006, 11:32 PM
2004, the first year that guy came over from BMW and supposedly was supposed to make a nicer Pontiac. There are things I like about the car though or I wouldnt have bought it. It's just that the continued problems have been kinda frustrating. I got the extended warranty though so I only have to deal with wasting time rather than wasting time AND money.

thats to bad... the Grand Prix is getting totally redone next year and is gonna be called the G8... hopefully they can really upgrade the interior and looks and increase overall quality...

pontiac is getting much better though....

the new solstice is awesome
they are getting rid of that terrible looking van called SV6
G6 coupe and convertible are good looking, i'm not a big fan of the 4door
the torrent is a really good deal

they are getting a new GTO next summer that is gonna be the pontiac version of the new Camaro

beavis
03-22-2006, 01:04 AM
ill be making more in a year then you'll make in a decade
Oh, so that's why you're posting on Chiefsplanet at midnight on a Wednesday. ROFL

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 06:49 AM
46 posts
the thread is highjacked by post 14

:PPL: rochambeau Stooges

why does every damn car thread become a recxjake thread?!!!

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 11:11 AM
Ok, here's my first stupid question

If I want to put money down on a vehicle...does that go toward the agreed price of the vehicle and the balance is financed or does the down payment go to the lendor?

morphius
03-22-2006, 11:24 AM
thats to bad... the Grand Prix is getting totally redone next year and is gonna be called the G8... hopefully they can really upgrade the interior and looks and increase overall quality...

pontiac is getting much better though....

the new solstice is awesome
they are getting rid of that terrible looking van called SV6
G6 coupe and convertible are good looking, i'm not a big fan of the 4door
the torrent is a really good deal

they are getting a new GTO next summer that is gonna be the pontiac version of the new Camaro
The problem with Pontiac right now, for me at least, is that front end is getting a little worn, and if you don't like one of the Pontiacs front ends, you are not going to like the look of any of them. Plus it doesn't help distingush between the models very well either. Oh well.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 11:31 AM
The problem with Pontiac right now, for me at least, is that front end is getting a little worn, and if you don't like one of the Pontiacs front ends, you are not going to like the look of any of them. Plus it doesn't help distingush between the models very well either. Oh well.


yea i agree... i also think they messed up by announcing they are gonna make a G5... which is basically a Chevy coblat with a pontiac tag on it...... rebadging is very bad IMO.... but it does cut cost...

Good news today though... GM, Delphi and UAW agreed to buyout workers....

and GM announced they are gonna ramp up production on the tahoe's, yukons and escaldes since they are selling so well

vailpass
03-22-2006, 11:32 AM
First, the size of your paycheck doesn't make the man. Second, be careful who you say s**t like that to on a forum like this. There are people in here that make far more than you know. You don't know jack about me, yet you feel comfortable stating, as fact, that you'll make more than me. That just proves what a dumbass you are.

What the **** do you expect the kid to do after you call his dad worthless and call for the termination of his family line?
I have nothing against you, you always seem like a pretty cool intraweb member but that is some low shit. Of course the kid is going to go on the defensive for his Dad.
Insulting people's family members = uncool. (unless it's mememgunt or pee4me ;) )

vailpass
03-22-2006, 11:35 AM
Ok, here's my first stupid question

If I want to put money down on a vehicle...does that go toward the agreed price of the vehicle and the balance is financed or does the down payment go to the lendor?

Money down takes away from amount financed. Example:

purchase price+TTL= $40,000
down payment= $5,000
Loan amount= $35,000

When you work out your loan the lender will ask how much you intend to put down.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 11:37 AM
Ok, here's my first stupid question

If I want to put money down on a vehicle...does that go toward the agreed price of the vehicle and the balance is financed or does the down payment go to the lendor?

what kind of car/truck you looking at anyway?

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 11:40 AM
what kind of car/truck you looking at anyway?

you've already given your opinion (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=137112&highlight=sonata)

fan4ever
03-22-2006, 11:40 AM
I know this thread comes up every few weeks, but there's plenty of bandwidth for all planeteers, and hey, its the off-season!

I'd like to hear from you seasoned vets out there on a solid formula for negotiating a new car purchase. I've done plenty o' research on the car(s) I'm considering ,and I know my target prices. I've looked into associated fees and rebates and I feel I'm ready to approach the dealer.

One disadvantage I have is this is a one dealer/per make town. In other words, there's only one Ford dealer, one Honda dealer, one Nissan dealer and so forth. if I cant get things done here in town...I may have to drive 150 miles to Dallas or Oklahoma City. :shake:

Help me get my game face on :mad:

OK, back to car buying.

You don't need a game face.

I'm 46 and done my share of car buying, and the best thing I ever did was go to comsumerreports.com and paid $15.00 and got all the information you'd ever need to buy a car. You pick a make and they send you all the information as to what the dealer paid for the car including destination charges, available rebates, options; everything. You find the car you want in the lot, write down all the categories they are charging you for, take those categories off of your consumer reports list and total up the wholesale price of the car. Then you tell the salesperson that you've figured the cost of the car and you'll offer them a percentage over their cost (on my make they suggested between .06 and .08 percent). They said most dealers will be satisfied with that margin, but if it were a very popular car, you might have to pay more; even sticker. I did this, told the sales dude this is what we're willing to pay (.07) and if he came back with his manager or any of that B.S. I was walking. I wanted either a "no" or a contract, and nothing in between. He was back in 10 minutes with a contract. The kid who sold me the car told me that the older car salesmen hate people like me; can't bullshit. Then my wife even bargained for a spoiler, mud flaps and roof rack. If you are looking at a couple of makes, you can get a second report from consumerreports.com for a lesser amount; $10 it was when I did it. We also went on a Monday morning on the last week of the month; a good time to go. Also, CR also recommends selling your car privately; a trade in only complicates the process with a dealer...

Hope this has been helpful and let us know how it goes. I SWEAR BY THIS PROCESS AND IT'S THE ONLY WAY I'M BUYING CARS FROM NOW ON.

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 11:41 AM
Money down takes away from amount financed. Example:

purchase price+TTL= $40,000
down payment= $5,000
Loan amount= $35,000

When you work out your loan the lender will ask how much you intend to put down.

thank you!

vailpass
03-22-2006, 11:48 AM
thank you!

Archie,
Here is a very good site to help you on your way. I've sent it to a couple of different people and they both gave great feedback.
remember that 9.5/10 car salesman are looking to **** you out of every penny they can. That is how they are trained, that is how they are paid.

Car salesman hate this site:

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

recxjake
03-22-2006, 11:56 AM
you've already given your opinion (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=137112&highlight=sonata)

i strongly suggest that you stay away from hyundai....

i strongly suggest that you look at this car...

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/futurevehicles/index.jsp

the satrun aura is aweome...

recxjake
03-22-2006, 11:57 AM
i strongly suggest that you stay away from hyundai....

i strongly suggest that you look at this car...

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/futurevehicles/index.jsp

the satrun aura is aweome...

oh yea... saturn has no haggle pricing... alot better to deal with then regular dealers


here's some more pics

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/12179

this is the car im gonna get next

foxman
03-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Rather than commiting to financing the car somewere else you should instead just get a firm APR and Term from your bank or credit union. Leave your options open though because a lot of the time the dealers financing can be better and more convieniant than your financing. No point screwing yourself trying to outsmart someone.

I have 14 years car experiance, I am not in your area so I have zero vested interest in how or who you do business, but if you have questions please PM me since I am not always availabel to respond to some of the misinformation that gets posted on this websight.

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 01:34 PM
i strongly suggest that you stay away from hyundai...

You keep saying that, but you never say why. If you're going to caution me against something, you better back it up.

Saturn has reliability issues and prices that are, for the most part, not negotiable. I'm not interested in GM, thank you.

Cochise
03-22-2006, 01:51 PM
the best thing I ever did was go to comsumerreports.com and paid $15.00 and got all the information you'd ever need to buy a car. You pick a make and they send you all the information as to what the dealer paid for the car including destination charges, available rebates, options; everything. You find the car you want in the lot, write down all the categories they are charging you for, take those categories off of your consumer reports list and total up the wholesale price of the car. Then you tell the salesperson that you've figured the cost of the car and you'll offer them a percentage over their cost (on my make they suggested between .06 and .08 percent). They said most dealers will be satisfied with that margin, but if it were a very popular car, you might have to pay more; even sticker. I did this, told the sales dude this is what we're willing to pay (.07) and if he came back with his manager or any of that B.S. I was walking. I wanted either a "no" or a contract, and nothing in between.

I read on some other sites that a good strategy was to buy those dealer cost reports and price out your options, include 6-8% profit for the dealer, then fax your offer sheet to all the dealers for that make in the region.

I guess if you think about it, if you had to drive all the way to Des Moines for a car, that would only cost like $100, versus if you bought a car on impulse down here and got fleeced for MSRP plus a bunch of BS fees, you'd still be saving a nice sum on the car.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 01:53 PM
You keep saying that, but you never say why. If you're going to caution me against something, you better back it up.

Saturn has reliability issues and prices that are, for the most part, not negotiable. I'm not interested in GM, thank you.

well your from texas... texans drive Chevy... not an import from korea, or japan

Cochise
03-22-2006, 01:54 PM
oh yea... saturn has no haggle pricing... alot better to deal with then regular dealers


here's some more pics

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/12179

this is the car im gonna get next

That's the ugliest interior in the history of cars.

Cochise
03-22-2006, 01:56 PM
well your from texas... texans drive Chevy... not an import from korea, or japan

the new Sonata is built in Montgomery Alabama, you ever-so-informed and impartial industry critic.

shakesthecat
03-22-2006, 01:57 PM
well your from texas... texans drive Chevy... not an import from korea, or japan


Who could deny rock solid logic like that?

FWIW, we traded in a complete POS 2001 Olds Alero for a 2005 Kia and couldn't be happier.
There's no comparison in the overall build quality between the 2.
It'll be years if not decades before we consider buying another GM slice -o-crap.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:04 PM
the new Sonata is built in Montgomery Alabama, you ever-so-informed and impartial industry critic.

sorry i should have said... all the the profit goes back to korea and japan...

plus kia and hyundia are cheap junk... and they look terrible

Skip Towne
03-22-2006, 02:04 PM
That's the ugliest interior in the history of cars.
I agree. The only way that could get any uglier is if there was a MUron sitting in it.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:05 PM
That's the ugliest interior in the history of cars.

thats the concept picture interior... not production... the production interior is much more better... more conservative colors

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:07 PM
I agree. The only way that could get any uglier is if there was a MUron sitting in it.

oh yea.... and you have to keep in mind its replacing the ugliest car ever made by GM... Saturn Ion....

its much much better.....

Cochise
03-22-2006, 02:09 PM
sorry i should have said... all the the profit goes back to korea and japan...

I bet you that the largest shareholders in both of those companies are mutual funds, and what country would probably be most heavily invested in them?

Besides, if the choice is between the profit going to Japan and it going into a handful of Gm executives' pockets and to reward their wasteful business practices, who is really doing who wrong by buying their cars?

Even after all this debate, the only reasons you can ever come up with for anyone to buy one of Daddy's cars is xenophobia. Or, well they still aren't as good as the competition, but they're better than they used to be.

If just once you could put up a legitimate argument for buying the product on its own merits, you might convince someone. As it stands you probably drive people into the arms of Japanese automakers more than anything else.

shakesthecat
03-22-2006, 02:10 PM
sorry i should have said... all the the profit goes back to korea and japan...

plus kia and hyundia are cheap junk... and they look terrible

Apparently you've never seen a Pontiac Aztec or the new Chevy PT Cruiser rip-off.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:13 PM
Apparently you've never seen a Pontiac Aztec or the new Chevy PT Cruiser rip-off.

they dont make the aztec anymore

and the HHR is selling like crazy

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:17 PM
I bet you that the largest shareholders in both of those companies are mutual funds, and what country would probably be most heavily invested in them?

Besides, if the choice is between the profit going to Japan and it going into a handful of Gm executives' pockets and to reward their wasteful business practices, who is really doing who wrong by buying their cars?

Even after all this debate, the only reasons you can ever come up with for anyone to buy one of Daddy's cars is xenophobia. Or, well they still aren't as good as the competition, but they're better than they used to be.

If just once you could put up a legitimate argument for buying the product on its own merits, you might convince someone. As it stands you probably drive people into the arms of Japanese automakers more than anything else.



http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/quality_index.html

This 10th annual survey of 40,000 owners gauges impressions of total quality, including vehicle satisfaction and problems. We're proud to announce that six 2005 GM vehicles were ranked in the top 20 (more than any other automaker):

The vehicles:

Pontiac G6
GMC Sierra
Chevrolet Corvette
Buick Rainier
Cadillac Escalade
HUMMER H2


In the 2005 J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study**:

- Eight GM vehicles ranked highest in their segment.

Cochise
03-22-2006, 02:22 PM
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/quality_index.html

ROFL

shakesthecat
03-22-2006, 02:26 PM
they dont make the aztec anymore

and the HHR is selling like crazy

And the reason they quit making the Aztec? Oh yeah, it was a butt ugly POS.
I see very few HHR's around, so I doubt that very much.

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:26 PM
ROFL


yea j.d. power is such a bad source

recxjake
03-22-2006, 02:28 PM
And the reason they quit making the Aztec? Oh yeah, it was a butt ugly POS.
I see very few HHR's around, so I doubt that very much.


Flexible HHR wagon a big hit for Chevy

Thursday, March 02, 2006

By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A surprise hit is always a good thing for a carmaker, but Chevy's HHR must seem like manna from heaven for troubled General Motors. While much has been made of GM's financial loses and dramatic corporate restructuring, the company has been watching sales roll in for one of its most creative models -- the HHR, a small, flexible retro wagon/crossover that can be personalized to the nth degree.

GM thought it would sell 60,000 of these cuties in a year. In just four short months since it went into production in August, 41,000 HHRs were sold. Some analysts say that 100,000 a year -- or more -- may not be out of the question.


Even better for GM, the HHR is especially hot with the hip East Coast and West Coast crowds. About 60 percent of the HHRs went out the showroom door with aftermarket accessories, parts and other pieces emblematic of personalization. The demographic group most associated with the personalization trend are those under 40.

Standard equipment is generous, including fold-flat passenger seats; a standard 2.2-liter, 143-horsepower, four-cylinder engine; remote start; a five-speed manual transmission; air conditioning; and AM/FM/CD stereo with an accessory input jack for auxiliary iPod/MP3). It comes in three trim levels: LS, 1LT and 2LT.

Optional equipment includes a 172-horsepower, 2.4-liter four; side air bags; a four-speed automatic; traction control; sports suspension; a power sunroof and 17-inch wheels. Fuel mileage for both engines is in the 22/30 miles per gallon range.

The first thing that I and my family noticed about the HHR was how the extra large door openings make it easy to get in and out. This car also could be a hit with those with limited movement or extra girth.

The interior is much nicer than you might be accustomed to from the old GM. The HHR's interior had soft plastic, contrasting colors and substantial, durable-looking leathers. The seats are thick and supportive and even their backs are nicely finished. It's obvious that GM has undertaken efforts to improve its models' interiors, so it's time to give credit where it's due.

Article continued at link:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06061/663272.stm


try again

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 02:30 PM
How would I go about finding out how much tags and title would be on the car?

shakesthecat
03-22-2006, 02:37 PM
Even better for GM, the HHR is especially hot with the hip East Coast and West Coast crowds. About 60 percent of the HHRs went out the showroom door with aftermarket accessories, parts and other pieces emblematic of personalization. The demographic group most associated with the personalization trend are those under 40.


try again

Well, that expains why I don't see many here in the mid-west.
Then again, if they're built as poorly as our Alero was, I'm sure we'll all be able to pick up a used one real cheap in a year or 2.

Frosty
03-22-2006, 02:49 PM
You don't have to buy anything. You can go to sites like edmunds.com and get all of the invoice and incentive information that you need. Also, the forums at Edmunds have a "Prices Paid" forum for each model (though you have to take it with a grain of salt). There is also a "Smart Buyer" set of forums there where you can get buying tips, real world trade in values, ask about various models, etc. Quite a few salesmen hang out there and will offer a lot of insight.

Use the info you find there to formulate a bottom line price that you are willing to pay. I also like to use carsdirect.com to get a starting point. You should be able to get a Hyundai well below invoice.

Then arrange financing beforehand (a pre-approval). This will tell you what the best rate you can get is. Then go to someplace like bankrate.com that has financial calculators and calculate the payment for $1000 for the term and interest rate. For example, a five year loan at 6% would have a per $1000 rate of $19.33. Get the values for different rates and terms that are available. Use this to estimate what the payment would by multiplying the thousands. So, if your rig comes to $23,600 at the above rate, multiply 23.6 x $19.33 for a payment of $456.19. This gets you a reality check if the dealer starts playing games.

After you find the car you want, offer the dealer the price you firured out beforehand as an "out the door" price (including all fees except tax and licence). Be prepared to walk out if they don't accept it. Walk out if they start the whining and crying about how they couldn't feed their kids on that, etc. If they flat out reject it and let you walk, you are probably too low and need to reevaluate the price. More than likely, if you are in the ballpark, they will chase you to your car and either accept it or come close. It's up to you how much you want to negotiate those last few dollars. Never, ever, negotiate on payments, only on an out the door price.

Beware the finance manager. This is where most of the dealer's money is made. Don't buy the mop and glow pack, the VIN etching, the "no wax" treatment, etc. I wouldn't buy any extended warrantee at this point. I believe all manufacturers allow a grace period to buy at "new" prices (on my Silverado it is 1 year, 12000 miles and on our CR-V it is 6 months, 6000 miles). Any dealer can sell you that EW and there quite a few dealer sites on-line that sell them cheaper than you dealer will initially offer. Only buy manufacturer backed warrantees, never third party ones, no matter what kind of deal it seems.

Look for any fees (other than tax and licence) and refute them since you negotiated an out the door price. Get up and walk out if they insist on a $300 "advertising fee", for example. Some dealers pre-print these on the forms and insist that "everyone pays them". If so, they can lower the agreed upon price of the car by that amount. If they don't, walk.

It gets more complicated if you have a trade. Just remember, you will at best get BottomLinePrice - AuctionPriceonTrade. If you get more than wholesale on your trade, it's because you are paying more for the new car.

Archie F. Swin
03-22-2006, 03:23 PM
You don't have to buy anything. You can go to sites like edmunds.com and get all of the invoice and incentive information that you need. Also, the forums at Edmunds have a "Prices Paid" forum for each model (though you have to take it with a grain of salt). There is also a "Smart Buyer" set of forums there where you can get buying tips, real world trade in values, ask about various models, etc. Quite a few salesmen hang out there and will offer a lot of insight.

Use the info you find there to formulate a bottom line price that you are willing to pay. I also like to use carsdirect.com to get a starting point. You should be able to get a Hyundai well below invoice.

Then arrange financing beforehand (a pre-approval). This will tell you what the best rate you can get is. Then go to someplace like bankrate.com that has financial calculators and calculate the payment for $1000 for the term and interest rate. For example, a five year loan at 6% would have a per $1000 rate of $19.33. Get the values for different rates and terms that are available. Use this to estimate what the payment would by multiplying the thousands. So, if your rig comes to $23,600 at the above rate, multiply 23.6 x $19.33 for a payment of $456.19. This gets you a reality check if the dealer starts playing games.

After you find the car you want, offer the dealer the price you firured out beforehand as an "out the door" price (including all fees except tax and licence). Be prepared to walk out if they don't accept it. Walk out if they start the whining and crying about how they couldn't feed their kids on that, etc. If they flat out reject it and let you walk, you are probably too low and need to reevaluate the price. More than likely, if you are in the ballpark, they will chase you to your car and either accept it or come close. It's up to you how much you want to negotiate those last few dollars. Never, ever, negotiate on payments, only on an out the door price.

Beware the finance manager. This is where most of the dealer's money is made. Don't buy the mop and glow pack, the VIN etching, the "no wax" treatment, etc. I wouldn't buy any extended warrantee at this point. I believe all manufacturers allow a grace period to buy at "new" prices (on my Silverado it is 1 year, 12000 miles and on our CR-V it is 6 months, 6000 miles). Any dealer can sell you that EW and there quite a few dealer sites on-line that sell them cheaper than you dealer will initially offer. Only buy manufacturer backed warrantees, never third party ones, no matter what kind of deal it seems.

Look for any fees (other than tax and licence) and refute them since you negotiated an out the door price. Get up and walk out if they insist on a $300 "advertising fee", for example. Some dealers pre-print these on the forms and insist that "everyone pays them". If so, they can lower the agreed upon price of the car by that amount. If they don't, walk.

It gets more complicated if you have a trade. Just remember, you will at best get BottomLinePrice - AuctionPriceonTrade. If you get more than wholesale on your trade, it's because you are paying more for the new car.

thanks for taking the time to type all that...good stuff

Dayze
03-22-2006, 04:43 PM
do all your research well in advance. Once you've decided on the vehicle, and agree to go in and 'deal', lay out your best deal period. And give then 30 minutes. Don't waste my time, I won't waste yours.

They were asking $17.9 for mine, and I offered $14.5; they offered me $8K for my Jeep but got them to come up to$13K - in and out in less than an hour.

have your credit report printed out; keep it in your hip pocket (assuming you're financing through the dealer".) I had my financing pre-approved through my bank, but I was able to shave 2% off by going through GMAC for the same term. So I went that route.

Print out your credit report, and comparable vehicles (if shopping used).

I found the line "Look, I"m buying a car; either from you or the guy down the street. It doesn't matter to me." extremely effective while looking at said print outs of vehicles from KBB, Auto Trader, etc.

For the most part, I think if you've got your sh*t together and they know it, it's really an easy experience.

Archie F. Swin
03-25-2006, 10:30 PM
Thanks guys...I'll take delivery on the Sonata Tuesday.

recxjake
03-25-2006, 10:43 PM
Thanks guys...I'll take delivery on the Sonata Tuesday.

:(

Archie F. Swin
03-25-2006, 10:46 PM
That's about how I'll look when I write the check

luv
03-25-2006, 10:48 PM
I'll be buying a new car in about a year, or just a little longer. I would LOVE an SUV, but I have a feeling I'm gonna need to keep it to about $10K. Not much of a chance of getting a decent SUV for that, so I'm sticking with a car. Not sure what yet, though.

Halfcan
03-25-2006, 10:58 PM
I'll be buying a new car in about a year, or just a little longer. I would LOVE an SUV, but I have a feeling I'm gonna need to keep it to about $10K. Not much of a chance of getting a decent SUV for that, so I'm sticking with a car. Not sure what yet, though.


Then you can come up to see me-okay I will meet ya half way-lol

Archie F. Swin
03-26-2006, 09:02 AM
this will be my(our) first new car evah!

Archie F. Swin
03-26-2006, 09:20 AM
Thank you....After arriving on the lot at 10:30a they finally accepted my final offer @ 4pm. So I went 13 rounds with 'em.

ChiefButthurt
03-27-2006, 10:34 AM
Congrats Archie. Loaded? New cars are sweet, hope you enjoy it.

Archie F. Swin
03-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Congrats Archie. Loaded? New cars are sweet, hope you enjoy it.

Not fully loaded. That's beyond my budget. We got the middle trim level (GLS) with the 4cyl engine. The list of standard features is a head-turner though.

If you buy the base model Sonata you get 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, stability control, six airbags including side-curtain and 60/40 split rear bench. They've increased the interior space so much that it meets the gov't standards for "large car".

Inspector
03-27-2006, 01:22 PM
Have you considered buying from GM instead?

Archie F. Swin
03-27-2006, 01:32 PM
Have you considered buying from GM instead?
After reading about reliability issues over the last several years (as published by Consumer Reports) that's not a risk I'm ready to take just yet.