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View Full Version : CP at N.C. State pro-day today.......


KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 05:38 PM
he was checking out Manny Lawson, and if CP is there, i guess that means that we are pretty serious about manny.....i wouldnt mind having him, but i think we might be able to draft down to get him, wishful thinking maybe

The Bad Guy
03-22-2006, 05:40 PM
I think he ran like a 4.4 forty.

If so, I doubt he even lasts to 20. That's impressive as hell.

Dunit35
03-22-2006, 05:44 PM
I thought he was a tweener?

melbar
03-22-2006, 05:46 PM
The ESPN draft guide says he may be every bit as talented as Mario Williams , he just lined up on the side with the more talented lineman and useually got to the ballcarrier/QB about the same time.
That being said it makes me scared of both of them because of the Peppers/ Sims relationship. Sims only looked good because of Peppers . Is it the same for Manny or do both possibly lose a little without each other?

The Bad Guy
03-22-2006, 05:47 PM
The ESPN draft guide says he may be every bit as talented as Mario Williams , he just lined up on the side with the more talented lineman and useually got to the ballcarrier/QB about the same time.
That being said it makes me scared of both of them because of the Peppers/ Sims relationship. Sims only looked good because of Peppers . Is it the same for Manny or do both possibly lose a little without each other?

It's different for DE's as opposed to a DE/DT combo.

I think a guy who runs that fast as a DE can be nothing but positive regardless.

KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 05:48 PM
he is a tweener, but besides being a pash rush maniac, he is a special teams all-star too, i can't tell you how many kicks that guy blocked at state, hes all over the place. but who cares if hes a tweener, put him in a three point on third down and good luck in man to man, cause you're not doubling him with jared allen on the other side

Tribal Warfare
03-22-2006, 05:48 PM
*cough* Tamba Hali *cough*

*cough* Tamba Hali *cough*

KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 05:49 PM
its not the same as mario and manny, i got a lot of friends on the team that say that manny is the more talented and harder to block of the two

Kclee
03-22-2006, 05:53 PM
its not the same as mario and manny, i got a lot of friends on the team that say that manny is the more talented and harder to block of the two

Maybe its just me but, that seems like the same thing said about Sims and Peppers predraft.

The Bad Guy
03-22-2006, 05:53 PM
*cough* Tamba Hali *cough*

*cough* Tamba Hali *cough*

Give me the guy that runs the 4.4 forty.

Tribal Warfare
03-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Give me the guy that runs the 4.4 forty.


how about the Senior Bowl MVP?

KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 05:55 PM
maybe it was kclee, but you can't deny the numbers manny put up in the combine, he's just a freak athlete that knows how to make plays..........but think about this......lets say that it is the same case as sims/peppers, then manny will just benefit from jared allen

The Bad Guy
03-22-2006, 05:56 PM
how about the Senior Bowl MVP?

As I said, give me the 4.4 speed.

Freeney was dubbed as a tweener too when the Colts took him.

Now he's the best DE in the NFL.

You can coach up a lot of things, but speed isn't one of them. A DE with 4.4 speed is devistating.

Tribal Warfare
03-22-2006, 05:58 PM
maybe it was kclee, but you can't deny the numbers manny put up in the combine, he's just a freak athlete that knows how to make plays..........but think about this......lets say that it is the same case as sims/peppers, then manny will just benefit from jared allen


Seriously, want are KC's chances getting Lawson according to the NC state players you talked with.

KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 06:01 PM
i have no idea Tribal, the guys i talked with werent in the conversations with CP and manny, all i know is that my buddy talked with CP and he said that he was there lookin at manny, that's about as far as my insider value goes on this one

melbar
03-22-2006, 06:01 PM
I still like the guy , but the Sims thing does make me a little gunshy.

Spicy McHaggis
03-22-2006, 06:22 PM
As I said, give me the 4.4 speed.

Freeney was dubbed as a tweener too when the Colts took him.

Now he's the best DE in the NFL.

You can coach up a lot of things, but speed isn't one of them. A DE with 4.4 speed is devistating.

I get what you're saying. Freeney's issue was more with his height though and Lawson's is more with his weight. If Lawson puts puts on a little bulk and keeps his speed he can probably be a DeMarcus Ware/Jason Taylor type player. He's definately the type of guy that can be a better pro than he was collegiate player.

KCfanfromNC
03-22-2006, 06:31 PM
i agre Spicy, but i like how many is 6,6 and jumps out of the gym and light, rather then short and alittle bit heavier..........when you're tall and can jump like that, it adds things to special teams and another demention to the pass rush, batting down the check down and swing routes

Tribal Warfare
03-22-2006, 06:35 PM
I get what you're saying. Freeney's issue was more with his height though and Lawson's is more with his weight. If Lawson puts puts on a little bulk and keeps his speed he can probably be a DeMarcus Ware/Jason Taylor type player. He's definately the type of guy that can be a better pro than he was collegiate player.



I'll comment blasphemy here...... could he be a Derrick Thomas type of player?

milkman
03-22-2006, 06:39 PM
I get what you're saying. Freeney's issue was more with his height though and Lawson's is more with his weight. If Lawson puts puts on a little bulk and keeps his speed he can probably be a DeMarcus Ware/Jason Taylor type player. He's definately the type of guy that can be a better pro than he was collegiate player.

Dwight Freeny is what 6'2"? 260? Somewhere in there, right?

Lawson would be okay, but I'd like to see him add about 20 lbs.

6'5" - 265, with speed could make him a monster.

I could live with the pick if it was Lawson.
But he absolutely needs to add weight.

HolmeZz
03-22-2006, 06:45 PM
I like Lawson quite a bit, but I have no clue how he'd fit with us.

RedThat
03-22-2006, 07:20 PM
Lawson shouldn't have to put on weight. This whole size thing, is very overrated. Speed is better. The guy should stay the same weight.

The Bottomline is, if he puts on weight he loses an integral part of his game, speed. That's the way it goes with most guys anyway. You put on weight, expect to be faced with a consequence, losing your speed.

*I think Lawson will be an OLB in the NFL. And would be a great fit for a team that runs a 3-4. A team like New England could use him since they lost their prototypical "outside" falcon LBer in McGinest.

milkman
03-22-2006, 07:28 PM
Lawson shouldn't have to put on weight. This whole size thing, is very overrated. Speed is better. The guy should stay the same weight.

The Bottomline is, if he puts on weight he loses an integral part of his game, speed. That's the way it goes with most guys anyway. You put on weight, expect to be faced with a consequence, losing your speed.

*I think Lawson will be an OLB in the NFL. And would be a great fit for a team that runs a 3-4. A team like New England could use him since they lost their prototypical "outside" falcon LBer in McGinest.

There you have it.

At 245, he's a LB.

If we were to draft him, he'd be the replacement for Bell, but since we re-signed Bell, we aren't drafting his replacement.

You can add weight without losing speed, with proper training.

RedThat
03-22-2006, 07:37 PM
There you have it.

At 245, he's a LB.

If we were to draft him, he'd be the replacement for Bell, but since we re-signed Bell, we aren't drafting his replacement.

You can add weight without losing speed, with proper training.

True. And, proper nutrition too. But I think it is very rare. You don't see a lot of guys out there maintaining their speed after adding an additional 20-30 pounds of weight. It is very very tough.

Mr. Laz
03-22-2006, 08:02 PM
quickness of foot and hand is more important for a DE than speed.




natural strength is good too

Chiefnj
03-22-2006, 08:29 PM
He's a great prospect. He's better prospect if you run a 3-4.

In a 4-3 he's not going to do much his first year as he gets accustomed to the NFL and gets accustomed to playing a completely new position as an OLB.

melbar
03-22-2006, 09:27 PM
He's still in all likelihood going to be a DE.

Tribal Warfare
03-22-2006, 09:52 PM
I'll go back to my DT comment guys. He was a LB, and he exclusively rushed the QB

Chiefnj
03-22-2006, 09:57 PM
He's still in all likelihood going to be a DE.

Not at 241 pounds he isn't. Not a chance.

Mecca
03-22-2006, 10:35 PM
This debate is tired because Manny Lawson is going at 19 to the Cowboys. He fits them perfectly.

I'm not sure what I think of Hali at this point...his numbers aren't all that impressive.

milkman
03-22-2006, 10:37 PM
This debate is tired because Manny Lawson is going at 19 to the Cowboys. He fits them perfectly.

I'm not sure what I think of Hali at this point...his numbers aren't all that impressive.

You're ass is just constantly puckered, isn't it?

htismaqe
03-23-2006, 07:58 AM
This debate is tired because Manny Lawson is going at 19 to the Cowboys. He fits them perfectly.

I'm not sure what I think of Hali at this point...his numbers aren't all that impressive.

I wouldn't chalk him up to the Cowboys just yet. They spent alot of money on Spears and Ware last year...

jspchief
03-23-2006, 08:09 AM
I'll go back to my DT comment guys. He was a LB, and he exclusively rushed the QBRegardless of whether it's an accurate comparison, I don't think DT's style of play would have translated all that well to today's NFL. Offenses have become too good at picking up and exposing blitzing LBs.

RedThat
03-23-2006, 08:56 AM
I wouldn't chalk him up to the Cowboys just yet. They spent alot of money on Spears and Ware last year...

yup.

melbar
03-23-2006, 09:18 AM
This debate is tired because Manny Lawson is going at 19 to the Cowboys. He fits them perfectly.

I'm not sure what I think of Hali at this point...his numbers aren't all that impressive.
Didnt they pick 2 tweeners in the 1st round last year?

melbar
03-23-2006, 09:21 AM
Maybe we'll see the Falcon again...

I still think he's gonna add the bulk.

Mr. Laz
03-23-2006, 09:38 AM
Didnt they pick 2 tweeners in the 1st round last year?

that's what i was thinking .... i wonder how many tweeners Mecca has starting for the Dallas defense?

ct
03-23-2006, 10:15 AM
I still prefer Hali, then Bunkley, but it's quite possible both are gone by 20. So if that's the case, I'm all for Manny Lawson over any CB out there except Huff(a tweener himself), who also should be gone. I sure as hell would put him over Kiwi or Watson.

BigChiefFan
03-23-2006, 02:51 PM
I agree with Dallas being one of the possible suitors for Manny Lawson. Pat Kirwan said he would be surprised if Lawson wasn't GONE before they pick, though.

BTW, Marcus Spears is a defensive END and Ware is a LINEBACKER. I see nothing wrong with the Cowboys adding another bad-ass LBer to the otherside and Lawson IS projected to be a LINEBACKER.

Mecca
03-23-2006, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't chalk him up to the Cowboys just yet. They spent alot of money on Spears and Ware last year...

Um......Spears plays the end, Ware plays one of the OLB spots, Lawson can take the other one giving them 2 outstanding 3-4 style OLB's. They signed Akin Ayodele to play one of their MLB spots so it makes perfect sense for them to target Lawson.

melbar
03-23-2006, 11:25 PM
I still prefer Hali, then Bunkley, but it's quite possible both are gone by 20. So if that's the case, I'm all for Manny Lawson over any CB out there except Huff(a tweener himself), who also should be gone. I sure as hell would put him over Kiwi or Watson.

Say What? This kid is considered the best DB prospect in years. He's fast, smart , covers well , hits like a truck, and you dont want him?

Tribal Warfare
03-24-2006, 02:20 AM
Um......Spears plays the end, Ware plays one of the OLB spots, Lawson can take the other one giving them 2 outstanding 3-4 style OLB's. They signed Akin Ayodele to play one of their MLB spots so it makes perfect sense for them to target Lawson.

It also makes sense that Lawson could be available at #20 spot

ct
03-24-2006, 07:28 AM
Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by coryt
I still prefer Hali, then Bunkley, but it's quite possible both are gone by 20. So if that's the case, I'm all for Manny Lawson over any CB out there except Huff(a tweener himself), who also should be gone. I sure as hell would put him over Kiwi or Watson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say What? This kid is considered the best DB prospect in years. He's fast, smart , covers well , hits like a truck, and you dont want him?

Please read again mel

htismaqe
03-24-2006, 08:00 AM
I agree with Dallas being one of the possible suitors for Manny Lawson. Pat Kirwan said he would be surprised if Lawson wasn't GONE before they pick, though.

BTW, Marcus Spears is a defensive END and Ware is a LINEBACKER. I see nothing wrong with the Cowboys adding another bad-ass LBer to the otherside and Lawson IS projected to be a LINEBACKER.

Damn, and I thought Marcus Spears was an offensive guard.

Spear and Ware are both defensive front 7 players. The Cowboys have needs all along the offensive line as well as at FS.

htismaqe
03-24-2006, 08:01 AM
Um......Spears plays the end, Ware plays one of the OLB spots, Lawson can take the other one giving them 2 outstanding 3-4 style OLB's. They signed Akin Ayodele to play one of their MLB spots so it makes perfect sense for them to target Lawson.

Ayodele will play one MLB spot but the other may be vacant as Nguyen is considering retirement.

OLB isn't their greatest need, but if they do target an OLB, look for it to be Carpenter...

KCfanfromNC
03-24-2006, 09:33 AM
hey, we didn't think that DJ was gonna be there at #15 last year either, so it could easily happen

BigChiefFan
03-24-2006, 10:00 AM
Damn, and I thought Marcus Spears was an offensive guard.

Spear and Ware are both defensive front 7 players. The Cowboys have needs all along the offensive line as well as at FS.I agree they need a FS and offensive line help, but they still need another OLBer-Lawson would be a PERFECT fit for them. Of course it all depends on how the draft plays out, but I see more value out of Lawson at 19, than some of the possible O-lineman that may be available.

I also, don't see alot of value out of a FS that will be available at 19. That said, I sure hope they reach for a FS at 19.

htismaqe
03-24-2006, 10:32 AM
I agree they need a FS and offensive line help, but they still need another OLBer-Lawson would be a PERFECT fit for them. Of course it all depends on how the draft plays out, but I see more value out of Lawson at 19, than some of the possible O-lineman that may be available.

I also, don't see alot of value out of a FS that will be available at 19. That said, I sure hope they reach for a FS at 19.

You're correct on all points, 2 things fueling my thinking:

1) With Ware already there, I think they may look for a different type of player for the other OLB spot. Don't rule out tOSU's Bobby Carpenter, he's one of the most underrated defensive players in the draft. In fact, a couple of websites I read have him rated AHEAD of Lawson. He's a better all-around LB than Lawson, but can still rush the passer in a 3-4. And his dad played for Parcells in New York. Dallas is reportedly very high on him.

2) I think they may actually reach for a FS, given the need. They're not getting near the ROI on Williams that they want. They can't use him the way he needs to be used because he's covering for the weakness at FS.

3) It's also not out of the realm of possibility that they take an ILB here as well, although the value there is even less than at FS. The best prospect likely to be there is Abdul Hodge and they could likely trade down to the end of the round and still get him.

BigChiefFan
03-24-2006, 12:11 PM
You're correct on all points, 2 things fueling my thinking:

1) With Ware already there, I think they may look for a different type of player for the other OLB spot. Don't rule out tOSU's Bobby Carpenter, he's one of the most underrated defensive players in the draft. In fact, a couple of websites I read have him rated AHEAD of Lawson. He's a better all-around LB than Lawson, but can still rush the passer in a 3-4. And his dad played for Parcells in New York. Dallas is reportedly very high on him.

2) I think they may actually reach for a FS, given the need. They're not getting near the ROI on Williams that they want. They can't use him the way he needs to be used because he's covering for the weakness at FS.

3) It's also not out of the realm of possibility that they take an ILB here as well, although the value there is even less than at FS. The best prospect likely to be there is Abdul Hodge and they could likely trade down to the end of the round and still get him.

Carpenter is underrated for sure, but I don't see them taking him with their 1st round pick and between the two players(Lawson and Carpenter), Lawson has alot more speed. If they covet Carpenter, they would be wise to trade down.

I believe Michael Huff is who they covet, but they'll need to trade up for him in all likelyhood. I wouldn't put it past them to do everything they can to trade up to get him.

I think we are in agreement with their needs, I just believe Lawson would be the best value for their pick if Huff is gone or trade down.

Mecca
03-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Now the Cowboys have signed 2 Olineman in FA already so I doubt they're going to do that early in the draft.

They're probably looking OLB and FS in the first 2 rounds. If they want a different style at OLB they have Kevin Burnett who they drafted last year, Bradie James has the other MLB spot.

htismaqe
03-24-2006, 02:23 PM
They won't draft an o-linemen in the 1st round, because they no longer have a need at tackle (they signed Fabini). They have guys on the inside, but none of them have developed much...even then, they're not gonna draft a guard in the 1st 2 rounds I doubt.

As for Carpenter, I've heard a couple of people say that Dallas really covets him...one of them was Gil Brandt...

BigChiefFan
03-24-2006, 03:30 PM
They won't draft an o-linemen in the 1st round, because they no longer have a need at tackle (they signed Fabini). They have guys on the inside, but none of them have developed much...even then, they're not gonna draft a guard in the 1st 2 rounds I doubt.

As for Carpenter, I've heard a couple of people say that Dallas really covets him...one of them was Gil Brandt...I hope they do covet Carpenter and Lawson falls to us because he would still make a contribution to our team. You can't coach speed and Lawson has plenty of it, something I believe Carpenter is lacking. I prefer a D-lineman, but an OLBer the quality of Lawson would be hard to be upset about.

go bowe
04-10-2006, 08:51 PM
I hope they do covet Carpenter and Lawson falls to us because he would still make a contribution to our team. You can't coach speed and Lawson has plenty of it, something I believe Carpenter is lacking. I prefer a D-lineman, but an OLBer the quality of Lawson would be hard to be upset about.can we play 4 lb's in a 4 -3?

is it a new rule or something?

or are you going to sit bell and his huge paycheck on the bench?

if gunther can make an end out of him, great...

otherwise, i'd take a pass on this guy...

BigChiefFan
04-11-2006, 08:45 AM
can we play 4 lb's in a 4 -3?

is it a new rule or something?

or are you going to sit bell and his huge paycheck on the bench?

if gunther can make an end out of him, great...

otherwise, i'd take a pass on this guy...

Lawson could possibly take on the DE role himself. Lawson is a freak of nature. He's a difference maker. I know some think he is better suited to a 3-4, as a LBer, but the guy has talent, more than most in this upcoming draft. If he should fall to us, we should think long and hard about Manny Lawson and consider pulling the trigger and taking him.

You do realize he's 6'5", 245 Lbs and runs a 4.4, 40 yard dash, right? He's also played DE AND OLBer in college. He's as athletic as they come and a football player.

Also, Bell, REDID his contract-I'm sure it's not a HUGE paycheck, like you think.

Chiefnj
04-11-2006, 09:19 AM
The only reason you take Lawson is if you want him to replace Bell.

ct
04-11-2006, 10:44 AM
anybody have some video, or link to, of this guy?

Mr. Laz
04-11-2006, 10:54 AM
The only reason you take Lawson is if you want him to replace Bell.

not if you think he can add 20lbs without losing his speed and quickness.

Coogs
04-11-2006, 12:25 PM
anybody have some video, or link to, of this guy?

http://www.jaguars.com/story/5090.asp

Go to the Mario Williams link. Lawson is #91. Keep in mind this is a Williams highlight video, but you see Lawson right in the middle of several plays.

Chiefnj
04-11-2006, 12:30 PM
not if you think he can add 20lbs without losing his speed and quickness.

That's always a really big "if". How many times in the past 5 years has a 245 lb college OLB/DE been developed into a 260lb NFL 4-3 DE?

Coogs
04-11-2006, 12:30 PM
In fact, a NC State DT would maybe be a good pick up in round 2 as well...


John McCargo
Height: 6-1 1/2 | Weight: 302 | 40-Time: 5.11

Official Bio

Strengths:
Very disruptive in the middle...An excellent penetrator...Has outstanding strength...Consistent performer who had at least one tackle for a loss in every game he played as a junior...Uses his hands and arms well...Active and does a good job of shedding blockers...Does a great job of splitting the double team...Very productive with a knack for making plays in the opponents backfield.

BigChiefFan
04-11-2006, 12:39 PM
Great video, Coogs.

Back to Manny Lawson- the idea of the draft is to improve the overall team and Manny Lawson looks to be the real deal. I know we have bigger needs, but those that are such big advocates for BAA, seem to be flip-flopping on the issue. Manny Lawson at 20, would most likely be the BAA, if he should fall to us and he is a quality player.

Coogs
04-11-2006, 12:42 PM
Great video, Coogs.

Back to Manny Lawson- the idea of the draft is to improve the overall team and Manny Lawson looks to be the real deal. I know we have bigger needs, but those that are such big advocates for BAA, seem to be flip-flopping on the issue. Manny Lawson at 20, would most likely be the BAA, if he should fall to us and he is a quality player.


If we go to a cover two, I think he and Allen would be ideal DE's. have to improve the DT's a bit though.

Chiefnj
04-11-2006, 12:43 PM
Great video, Coogs.

Back to Manny Lawson- the idea of the draft is to improve the overall team and Manny Lawson looks to be the real deal. I know we have bigger needs, but those that are such big advocates for BAA, seem to be flip-flopping on the issue. Manny Lawson at 20, would most likely be the BAA, if he should fall to us and he is a quality player.

That's why teams that play a 3-4 have a slight advantage in the draft. They have a bigger pool of players to choose from without having to ask the player to switch positions or gain weight, etc.

Coogs
04-11-2006, 12:50 PM
That's why teams that play a 3-4 have a slight advantage in the draft. They have a bigger pool of players to choose from without having to ask the player to switch positions or gain weight, etc.

Lawson played DE. He is a bit light right now, but looks to have the frame to add 15 pounds or so.

The Bears DE's are both 260. Jason Taylor of the Fish is not real heavy either.

BigChiefFan
04-11-2006, 01:38 PM
That's why teams that play a 3-4 have a slight advantage in the draft. They have a bigger pool of players to choose from without having to ask the player to switch positions or gain weight, etc. I mentioned it post #54 and didn't get a response, but again, Lawson has played DE.

Munson
04-11-2006, 01:44 PM
I would love to see KC draft Manny Lawson. I watched some NC State games this year, and he made just as many plays as Mario Williams. Its like they would take turns making a big tackle for loss, or getting a sack. I could see Lawson being successful with Jared Allen on the opposite side. He would be a definate upgrade over Eric Hicks.

htismaqe
04-29-2006, 08:02 PM
Mike Williams was my call last year. This year it was Bobby Carpenter.

:D