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View Full Version : The "Curse of Denkinger?"


Dr. Johnny Fever
04-07-2006, 06:52 PM
I've been thinking, with all of the curse talk over the last several years in baseball.... the bambino... the billy goat... could it be the the Royals are strapped with "the curse of Denkinger?"

We all know Jorge Orta was out at first in game six of the '85 WS. We also know how that call changed the entire momentum of the series in the Royals favor. Yes, Orta was thrown out trying to go from first to third later that inning and never scored, therefor not really having any impact on the game. But no one can deny how it turned the tide when Denkinger called him safe. We celebrated. We experienced joy and rapture. Then we went forward.

Two winning seasons I think since. Bad moves by the front office. Bad players on the field. Even many of the "good" free agents we've gotten have turned into busts once they put on the blue and white uni's. Gonzalez, Knoblach, Neifi Perez even bounced back after leaving KC. Our good young players always become stars elsewhere. Our good young players who stick around after having initial success... Berroa, Jose Rosado, Ken Harvey, etc., fall to the wayside soon after making a name for themselves.

So I ask you Royals bretheren... are we saddled with "the Curse of Denkinger?"

Or do we just plain suck?

seclark
04-07-2006, 06:55 PM
suck
sec

CHIEF4EVER
04-07-2006, 06:56 PM
We all know Jorge Orta was out at first in game six of the '85 WS. We also know how that call changed the entire momentum of the series in the Royals favor. Yes, Orta was thrown out trying to go from first to third later that inning and never scored, therefor not really having any impact on the game. But no one can deny how it turned the tide when Denkinger called him safe. We celebrated. We experienced joy and rapture. Then we went forward.

I call BS. You, sir, are an undercover Redboids fan. And a bitter one at that. :p

StcChief
04-07-2006, 06:56 PM
Both...Welcome your tainted WS in 85, thank Denkinger.

I hear Portland calling in 5 years. Glass will be all over it.
Blame the town for no support.

Dr. Johnny Fever
04-07-2006, 06:56 PM
I call BS. You, sir, are an undercover Redboids fan. And a bitter one at that. :p
I hate the boids.

big nasty kcnut
04-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Orta wasn't out. He was safe i don't care what anybody say.

Dr. Johnny Fever
04-07-2006, 07:01 PM
Orta wasn't out. He was safe i don't care what anybody say.
Keep the faith kid. It's the one thing they can never take away from you.

Skip Towne
04-07-2006, 07:03 PM
I agree with 'Nut. He's my man.

CHIEF4EVER
04-07-2006, 07:04 PM
I hate the boids.
So, if the Cards were truly champeens, why did they get their azzes handed to the in game 7?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=198510270KCA

WilliamTheIrish
04-07-2006, 07:29 PM
It's not the curse of Denkinger.

It's the curse of of the death of Mr. K.

The curse of the life of owners like Steinbrenner who pony up money and drive up the price of even the most mediocre players.

Of all the bad things that have happened to the Royals, losing Kaufman left the biggest void.

MahiMike
04-07-2006, 07:30 PM
Hey, if we're cursed at least we have a ring. Better than 2nd place!!! I work w/a guy from St. Louis that brings up Denkinger's name all the time to me. I just laugh...

William Ligue Jr
04-07-2006, 07:36 PM
I am the reason you suck. Tom Gamboa is my bitch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/BroncoLB56/LigueJr.jpg

StcChief
04-07-2006, 07:37 PM
So, if the Cards were truly champeens, why did they get their azzes handed to the in game 7?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=198510270KCA

Real simple. Their would not have been a game 7. Dink's bad call was game 6.

Eleazar
04-07-2006, 07:42 PM
I don't know if you can call it a curse, since the Royals' World Series drought ended one game later.

I think we suffer more from the curse of the accursed lineup, or the curse of the spiralling ERA

plbrdude
04-07-2006, 08:03 PM
i call the curse of bad management

CHIEF4EVER
04-07-2006, 08:27 PM
Real simple. Their would not have been a game 7. Dink's bad call was game 6.

Denkinger's call had no real impact on game 6.

DJJasonp
04-07-2006, 08:31 PM
It's not the curse of Denkinger.

It's the curse of of the death of Mr. K.

The curse of the life of owners like Steinbrenner who pony up money and drive up the price of even the most mediocre players.

Of all the bad things that have happened to the Royals, losing Kaufman left the biggest void.

Absolutely!

Any chance at having (local) ownership that cared half as much as Mr. K after his death is a long shot at best.....and that's the problem with Glass.....he's not old school...and he doesnt have that competitive fire that Mr. K had. I remember hearing the stories about how bad he wanted to beat the yankees and how bad he hated them. Glass doesnt give a damn, nor does he probably even know half the players on the yankees.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 08:35 PM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.

DJJasonp
04-07-2006, 08:36 PM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.


Jack Clark's misplayed foul ball......

Coach
04-07-2006, 09:04 PM
It's not the curse of Denkinger.

It's the curse of of the death of Mr. K.

The curse of the life of owners like Steinbrenner who pony up money and drive up the price of even the most mediocre players.

Of all the bad things that have happened to the Royals, losing Kaufman left the biggest void.

I agree. Ever since Mr. K. passed on, the Royals have been just miserable.

Lurch
04-07-2006, 09:06 PM
Let's face it: since Glass tookover, the Royals just, plain and simple, SUCK. Donkey dicks.

WilliamTheIrish
04-07-2006, 09:08 PM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.

McSherry fell to the turf like a loaf of day old bread.

Coach
04-07-2006, 09:09 PM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.

If you're referring to that "c*ocksucking sonofabitch" as Denkinger, then you're really bitter. Sure Denkinger's call was wrong, but the Cardinals made a number of mistakes that enabled the Royals to stay in the game and win.

1. Denkinger's call.

2. Next at-bat, Clark misplayed a foul pop-up by batter Steve Balboni. Instead of popping out, Balboni singled on the next pitch, and Onix Concepcion came in to pinch-run.

3. With runners on first and second, Jim Sundberg then bunted into a force play at third.

4. Catcher Darrell Porter then allowed a passed ball, allowing the runners to advance to second and third. Pinch-hitter Hal McRae was intentionally walked to load the bases.

5. Dane Iorg knocked a bloop single to right that scored Concepcion and Sundberg, who avoided Porter's tag at the plate to score the winning run.

Basically, the Cardinals self-destructed, not only becuase of the wrong-call, but their inability to ignore that incident and focus the game.

And since the Royals won game six, there WAS a game seven, that I guess the Cardinals forgot to show up.

AirForceChief
04-07-2006, 09:13 PM
Friends,

The one and only reason our team took a nose dive after continued success in the eighties and early ninties: we lost our guru - John Schuerholz. Of course at least we have the comfort that the Atlanta Braves haven't enjoyed success since he left KC for the ATL!!!!

John Schuerholz (b. October 1, 1940 in Baltimore, MD) is the current (2005) general manager of the Atlanta Braves of the National League. Before joining Atlanta, he spent twenty-two years with the Kansas City Royals organization, including nine as the club's GM. Among the teams he has built are the 1985 Royals and 1995 Braves, both world champions. His teams have also won their division 15 times. He is considered the king of scouting credited with an amazing farm system.

StcChief
04-07-2006, 09:14 PM
Dink's call was the break Royals needed. Not sure the other events would have occured. Without a runner a first.... and 1 out. Worrel Pitching from windup.....

WilliamTheIrish
04-07-2006, 09:17 PM
Dink's call was the break Royals needed. Not sure the other events would have occured. Without a runner a first.... and 1 out. Worrel Pitching from windup.....

Hard to say.

The Cards were pathetic offensively in the entire series. It's amazing (to me) that they were able to win a game with that punchless lineup.

It's all water under the bridge now.

Lurch
04-07-2006, 09:18 PM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.

A GD Cardinal fan. Another reason to hate your sorry ass. :cuss:

tk13
04-07-2006, 09:20 PM
It wasn't just the death of Mr. K... it was the fact that it took 7 freaking years for the "committee" to find an owner. There were 7 years between Mr. K dying and Glass becoming the owner... and Glass was already Mr. K's right hand man and chairman of the board, whatever position was 2nd behind Mr. K. By the time Glass officially took over, the team was in shambles and had no direction. It's taken all this time to get our ducks in a row.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 09:22 PM
To all those people implicating the Cards for losing the series, you have a strong point--the Cards batted .143 for the series, which is the lowest of any team in any 7 game series in WS history. However, there are certain things that happen that absolutely crush any form of momentum that you have, and Denkinger's call did that. Were the Cards a truly transcendent team that could overcome such a thing? No. But were they the better team in that Series...well yes.

Reaper16
04-07-2006, 09:23 PM
Wouldn't the Cards be similarly cursed, then. Cuz they aint got it done since.

Bowser
04-07-2006, 09:23 PM
To all those people implicating the Cards for losing the series, you have a strong point--the Cards batted .143 for the series, which is the lowest of any team in any 7 game series in WS history. However, there are certain things that happen that absolutely crush any form of momentum that you have, and Denkinger's call did that. Were the Cards a truly transcendent team that could overcome such a thing? No. But were they the better team in that Series...well yes.

Andujar's meltdown in game 7 didn't help you any. It could be argued that that was more of a factor than a blown call at first.

StcChief
04-07-2006, 09:25 PM
Water under the bridge....If it did anything to allow umpires to huddle and review calls, maybe it was worth it....Maybe not. Still no instant replay call reversals.

Hammock Parties
04-07-2006, 09:25 PM
It's not the curse of Denkinger.

It's the curse of of the death of Mr. K.

The curse of the life of owners like Steinbrenner who pony up money and drive up the price of even the most mediocre players.

Of all the bad things that have happened to the Royals, losing Kaufman left the biggest void.

A'men to that. Ewing Kauffman barely ever made a proffit from the Royals. He shelled out as much money as possible because he loved the game. When he died, the heart of Royals followed right behind him.

AirForceChief
04-07-2006, 09:27 PM
It wasn't just the death of Mr. K... it was the fact that it took 7 freaking years for the "committee" to find an owner. There were 7 years between Mr. K dying and Glass becoming the owner... and Glass was already Mr. K's right hand man and chairman of the board, whatever position was 2nd behind Mr. K. By the time Glass officially took over, the team was in shambles and had no direction. It's taken all this time to get our ducks in a row.

Again...I'd argue we took the dive when we lost our competant GM:

1982 John Schuerholz
(Promoted 10/81) Kansas City Royals AL W 90 72 2
1983 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 79 83 2
1984 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 78 1 Won Division

1985 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 91 71 1 Won Division
Won Pennant
Won World Series

1986 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 76 86 3
1987 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 83 79 2
1988 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 77 3
1989 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 92 70 2
1990 John Schuerholz
(Resigned 10/90) Kansas City Royals AL W 75 86 6
1991 Herk Robinson
(Promoted 10/10/90) Kansas City Royals AL W 82 80 6
1992 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL W 72 90 5
1993 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 78 3
1994 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 64 51 3
1995 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 70 74 2
1996 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 75 86 5
1997 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 67 94 5
1998 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 72 89 3
1999 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 64 97 4
2000 Herk Robinson
(Fired 6/17/00) Kansas City Royals AL C 77 85 4
2001 Allard Baird
(Promoted 6/17/00) Kansas City Royals AL C 65 97 5
2002 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 62 100 4
2003 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 83 79 3
2004 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 58 104 5
2005 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 56 106 5

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 09:28 PM
Andujar's meltdown in game 7 didn't help you any. It could be argued that that was more of a factor than a blown call at first.

Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.

Hammock Parties
04-07-2006, 09:29 PM
If you're referring to that "c*ocksucking sonofabitch" as Denkinger, then you're really bitter. Sure Denkinger's call was wrong, but the Cardinals made a number of mistakes that enabled the Royals to stay in the game and win.

1. Denkinger's call.

2. Next at-bat, Clark misplayed a foul pop-up by batter Steve Balboni. Instead of popping out, Balboni singled on the next pitch, and Onix Concepcion came in to pinch-run.

3. With runners on first and second, Jim Sundberg then bunted into a force play at third.

4. Catcher Darrell Porter then allowed a passed ball, allowing the runners to advance to second and third. Pinch-hitter Hal McRae was intentionally walked to load the bases.

5. Dane Iorg knocked a bloop single to right that scored Concepcion and Sundberg, who avoided Porter's tag at the plate to score the winning run.

Basically, the Cardinals self-destructed, not only becuase of the wrong-call, but their inability to ignore that incident and focus the game.

And since the Royals won game six, there WAS a game seven, that I guess the Cardinals forgot to show up.

Its so funny trying to argue with a Cardinals fan about that game, becaue they are so biased about it... They feel they got robbed, but they had every chance to get the outs. They're the ones that screwed themselves, because they were all whiney about it and seemed to not care about it anymore. so they whined about it after the game and still do, just to try to make themselves feel better.

Hammock Parties
04-07-2006, 09:31 PM
Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.

They shouldnt have allowed themselves to act childish like that then. Grown men get over it and move on to the next play.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 09:33 PM
Its so funny trying to argue with a Cardinals fan about that game, becaue they are so biased about it... They feel they got robbed, but they had every chance to get the outs. They're the ones that screwed themselves, because they were all whiney about it and seemed to not care about it anymore. so they whined about it after the game and still do, just to try to make themselves feel better.

Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.

tk13
04-07-2006, 09:36 PM
Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.
A championship team has composure. The Cardinals didn't. They lost.


Period.

Hammock Parties
04-07-2006, 09:36 PM
Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.


Ok, im sorry for going off. Just seemed like you were getting after us royals fans for that call.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 09:37 PM
Mizzou could have still beaten Nebraska in 97 even if the kicked ball play happened, but they didn't. However, I think that Missouri was screwed out of that game by a terrible call. Could they have still won in OT?? Absolutely. But they didn't, and it is easy to point to that call as the prime reason why.

WilliamTheIrish
04-07-2006, 09:37 PM
Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.

Yep.

But it was a monumental two game collapse. They had their ace on the hill in game 7 and he went Manson after getting yanked by the Rat.

WilliamTheIrish
04-07-2006, 09:39 PM
Nice reliving the glory days (again).

But I do wish I could see some championship baseball w/o having to go to another big league city.

It's kind of depressing.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2006, 09:40 PM
Ok, im sorry for going off. Just seemed like you were getting after us royals fans for that call.

If the shoe were on the other foot I would probably be supporting the Royals just as ardently as you are, so I don't hold any grudges against you guys. You took advantage of a great break. My only venom was directed at Denkinger, or "that c*cksucking sonofabitch" as I referred to him earlier.

StcChief
04-07-2006, 09:43 PM
A championship team has composure. The Cardinals didn't. They lost.


Period. Yeah. the lost it after 'the call' things were never the same.

Composure. Lots of things going on then.

Glad to see the Cards playing good ball on a yearly basis. Now.

I think LaRussa's days are numbered. He better bring home a WS soon.

Reaper16
04-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Glad to see the Cards choking on a yearly basis. Again.

Fix'd.

Honestly, I would rather hang out with Donks fans than Cards fans. I wish ill upon all of Cardinals nation, moreover, the entire city of St. Louis.

StcChief
04-07-2006, 10:30 PM
Fix'd.

Honestly, I would rather hang out with Donks fans than Cards fans. I wish ill upon all of Cardinals nation, moreover, the entire city of St. Louis.
Reaper....
Don't be messing with my posts. Especially If it isn't true. :harumph:

You can't be serious. Donxs fans?

StL is a baseball town, always has been.....always will be.

KC will always be a football town.

I don't care much for the natives in STL. having only been here since 1978.

Some of the Card fans are jacka$$es. As with all sports fans.
They are very baseball knowledgeable for the most part.

Reaper16
04-07-2006, 10:46 PM
Some of the Card fans are jacka$$es.

No, roughly 99.9% of Cards fans are complete jackasses. I don't so much hate the team as I do thier fans. I've met, like, less than ten Cards fans that I didn't want to physically harm because of thier attitude. I like seeing the Cards choke every year becuase I know it upsets thier fans; and I take great pleasure in knowing that Cards fans are in pain.

If someone is a Cards fan and wasn't born into it, then I have no sympathy for them, and will probably hate them forever out of spite.

StcChief
04-07-2006, 10:51 PM
I've just been a fan since grade school in the 60s listening to Harry and later Jack on transistor radio,
watching them on black and white Tube T.V.

Like their Baseball playing style. Put the ball in play, steal, hit and run, occasional long ball.

Good fast D and pitching.

Sorry we have some bad fans... try Phillies, NY fans they put the JA fans here to shame.

cdcox
04-07-2006, 10:59 PM
No, roughly 99.9% of Cards fans are complete jackasses. I don't so much hate the team as I do thier fans. I've met, like, less than ten Cards fans that I didn't want to physically harm because of thier attitude. I like seeing the Cards choke every year becuase I know it upsets thier fans; and I take great pleasure in knowing that Cards fans are in pain.

If someone is a Cards fan and wasn't born into it, then I have no sympathy for them, and will probably hate them forever out of spite.

I agree 100%. You can insert Donks or Jayhawks for Cards as far as I'm concerned. All have the same type of attitude.

Reaper16
04-07-2006, 11:00 PM
I've just been a fan since grade school in the 60s listening to Harry and later Jack on transistor radio,
watching them on black and white Tube T.V.

Like their Baseball playing style. Put the ball in play, steal, hit and run, occasional long ball.

Good fast D and pitching.

Sorry we have some bad fans... try Phillies, NY fans they put the JA fans here to shame.
I don't have to deal with, say, Phillies fans all of the time. Living in MO you can't escape choking on the musk of Cardinals fans, save for an act of sweet, sweet suicide. How I long for death; for a respite from jackassery....

Reaper16
04-07-2006, 11:01 PM
I agree 100%. You can insert Donks or Jayhawks for Cards as far as I'm concerned. All have the same type of attitude.
You are the best person alive. :clap:

Darien25
04-07-2006, 11:30 PM
Again...I'd argue we took the dive when we lost our competant GM:

1982 John Schuerholz
(Promoted 10/81) Kansas City Royals AL W 90 72 2
1983 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 79 83 2
1984 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 78 1 Won Division

1985 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 91 71 1 Won Division
Won Pennant
Won World Series

1986 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 76 86 3
1987 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 83 79 2
1988 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 77 3
1989 John Schuerholz
Kansas City Royals AL W 92 70 2
1990 John Schuerholz
(Resigned 10/90) Kansas City Royals AL W 75 86 6
1991 Herk Robinson
(Promoted 10/10/90) Kansas City Royals AL W 82 80 6
1992 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL W 72 90 5
1993 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL W 84 78 3
1994 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 64 51 3
1995 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 70 74 2
1996 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 75 86 5
1997 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 67 94 5
1998 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 72 89 3
1999 Herk Robinson
Kansas City Royals AL C 64 97 4
2000 Herk Robinson
(Fired 6/17/00) Kansas City Royals AL C 77 85 4
2001 Allard Baird
(Promoted 6/17/00) Kansas City Royals AL C 65 97 5
2002 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 62 100 4
2003 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 83 79 3
2004 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 58 104 5
2005 Allard Baird
Kansas City Royals AL C 56 106 5


I agree with your assessment Airforcechief. Losing Mr. K was terrible, but when Schuerholz left is really when the organization took a nose dive. Schuerholz is an absolute master at his job and had he remained on in KC the Royals would have never dropped to this level, small market or not.

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2006, 01:11 AM
Its funny when people say KC is a football town. Bullshit. The 70's and up until the stupid strike KC had great baseball support.

Mr. K spent money bc he though of the Royals as almost a goodwill for the city. He admited that he wasnt a big baseball fan, but he thought it was good for the city. Plus he had some cash, something Glass doesnt have huge amounts of.

Plus losing the best GM in baseball doesnt help matters.

tk13
04-08-2006, 01:55 AM
Well also remember when Mr. K owned the team, forking out the most money meant 10-15 million dollars. Not 200 million. I mean sure there's inflation, but Mr. K wouldn't be out there spending 250 million dollars a year to stick it to Steinbrenner.

PunkinDrublic
04-08-2006, 01:57 AM
It's a combination of things that have brought the Royals to their lowly state. The economics of baseball give small market teams very little room for error and the Royals have been cursed with bad management. You'd think they could try to mirror what the Twins have done.

Simba
04-08-2006, 02:19 AM
Real simple. Their would not have been a game 7. Dink's bad call was game 6.


And Jack Clark's inability to make the play on Steve Balboni's text-book pop up, coupled with Darrell Porter's passed ball later in the same inning, had nothing to do with the outcome. Deserving champions overcome adversity, they don't become unglued.

Simba
04-08-2006, 02:23 AM
I agree with your assessment Airforcechief. Losing Mr. K was terrible, but when Schuerholz left is really when the organization took a nose dive. Schuerholz is an absolute master at his job and had he remained on in KC the Royals would have never dropped to this level, small market or not.

And what Schuerholz did for the Atlanta Braves is further evidence of his impact.

teedubya
04-08-2006, 03:16 AM
Its the curse of John Schuerholz going to Atlanta.

teedubya
04-08-2006, 03:18 AM
after further reading, i see others have come to the same assessment.

PunkinDrublic
04-08-2006, 06:15 AM
I see Hamas Jenkens is demonstrating that vast baseball knowlege that Cardinal fans are so well known for. :rolleyes:

Dr. Johnny Fever
04-08-2006, 09:46 AM
12 years ago, do you all remember when John McSherry dropped dead umping a Reds game on opening day?? Well at first we thought it was Denkinger, so I (a huge Cards fan) told another one of my friends about it. He sat down, looked at me for a while and then laughed.

And laughed.


And laughed some more.

That's how much we hate that c*cksucking sonofabitch.
Orta didn't score. The call didn't matter. Your team simply choked.

StcChief
04-08-2006, 10:11 AM
Its funny when people say KC is a football town. Bullshit. The 70's and up until the stupid strike KC had great baseball support.

Mr. K spent money bc he though of the Royals as almost a goodwill for the city. He admited that he wasnt a big baseball fan, but he thought it was good for the city. Plus he had some cash, something Glass doesnt have huge amounts of.

Plus losing the best GM in baseball doesnt help matters.

Now without a salary cap.... No margin for error and Glass unwilling to invest to put anything on field that can compete in MLB.

Royals total payroll won't buy Pitchers on most competitive teams.

Salary cap would save them, but avg attendence is what ??? 10K game

Royals are heading out of town slow but sure if things don't change.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2006, 10:55 AM
I think it's somewhat odd that all Cards fans are being called out for being jackasses when I think that I've been quite honest and open to debate about what happened in that series. It seems to me that the Royals fans are bitter at St. Louis not because of the bitching about the call, but rather because St. Louis has had far better teams the last 20 years.

You can implicate and deride the Cardinal Nation all you want, and yes some of the fans are jackasses, but that's the same in any sport.

Last fall after Pujols hit that homerun I called up one of my friends who lives in St.L. and told him I wanted to go to game 6. This was no small feat, since I'm going to school in Ohio. I cancelled the class that I teach for Wednesday and skipped my Thursday classes, driving over 500 miles each direction. The Cards got wiped out in that game, and it was pretty damned sad to see Busch go out like that.

But we stayed around, watched the video highlights, walked around and looked at all the memories people wrote on the walls of their favorite moments at the stadium, and it was the most poignant moment I've ever experienced at a sporting venue. Afterwards I told my friend that although I had to miss class, drive 1000 miles roundtrip and spend over 250 bucks on everything, that it was still worth it to me, because I felt that I owed it to the team to be there and show my support after what happened in game 5. If that's not being a true fan, well then I don't know what is.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2006, 11:03 AM
Losing Schuerholtz really hurt you guys, but even he couldn't have patched together a winner with Glass at the helm. You guys have been deluded into thinking you are a small market team primarily because you have a small market owner and an 8th rate gm. If you got some real baseball people in there, you could compete just as well as Cleveland, Minnesota, Oakland, and others.

Dr. Johnny Fever
04-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Every team in sports has jackass fans because people are jackasses. You just notice it more when they are rooting for the team your team is playing.

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2006, 12:27 PM
Now without a salary cap.... No margin for error and Glass unwilling to invest to put anything on field that can compete in MLB.

Royals total payroll won't buy Pitchers on most competitive teams.

Salary cap would save them, but avg attendence is what ??? 10K game

Royals are heading out of town slow but sure if things don't change.

Not for 25 years you dipshit Cardinal fan.

WilliamTheIrish
04-08-2006, 04:34 PM
Losing Schuerholtz really hurt you guys, but even he couldn't have patched together a winner with Glass at the helm. You guys have been deluded into thinking you are a small market team primarily because you have a small market owner and an 8th rate gm. If you got some real baseball people in there, you could compete just as well as Cleveland, Minnesota, Oakland, and others.

The loss of Scheurholz was a big loss. But he knew the writing was on the wall. Mr. K spent big. Ted Turner spent bigger.

I'd like to see JS try to run a franchise that isn't spending 100+ million a year.

gblowfish
04-08-2006, 05:23 PM
I am the reason you suck. Tom Gamboa is my bitch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/BroncoLB56/LigueJr.jpg
Hey, I dig your White Sox recruiting poster!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2006, 05:36 PM
The loss of Scheurholz was a big loss. But he knew the writing was on the wall. Mr. K spent big. Ted Turner spent bigger.

I'd like to see JS try to run a franchise that isn't spending 100+ million a year.


Walt Jocketty > JS.

Case in point how Jocketty fleeced his ass in the JD Drew trade.

Calcountry
04-08-2006, 05:38 PM
I've been thinking, with all of the curse talk over the last several years in baseball.... the bambino... the billy goat... could it be the the Royals are strapped with "the curse of Denkinger?"

We all know Jorge Orta was out at first in game six of the '85 WS. We also know how that call changed the entire momentum of the series in the Royals favor. Yes, Orta was thrown out trying to go from first to third later that inning and never scored, therefor not really having any impact on the game. But no one can deny how it turned the tide when Denkinger called him safe. We celebrated. We experienced joy and rapture. Then we went forward.

Two winning seasons I think since. Bad moves by the front office. Bad players on the field. Even many of the "good" free agents we've gotten have turned into busts once they put on the blue and white uni's. Gonzalez, Knoblach, Neifi Perez even bounced back after leaving KC. Our good young players always become stars elsewhere. Our good young players who stick around after having initial success... Berroa, Jose Rosado, Ken Harvey, etc., fall to the wayside soon after making a name for themselves.

So I ask you Royals bretheren... are we saddled with "the Curse of Denkinger?"

Or do we just plain suck?Suck.

WTF is it with curses anyway? Is it sexy to root for an acursed team?

Its much more fun watching your team win 3 consecutive world series, I can assure you of that.

Heck, with that kind of logic, the Braves are cursed. Cursed to just win the division and nothing more. Forever being so close, and yet so far.

Skip Towne
04-08-2006, 05:55 PM
Suck.

WTF is it with curses anyway? Is it sexy to root for an acursed team?

Its much more fun watching your team win 3 consecutive world series, I can assure you of that.

Heck, with that kind of logic, the Braves are cursed. Cursed to just win the division and nothing more. Forever being so close, and yet so far.
By "your" team do you mean that team you stole from KC?

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2006, 05:58 PM
By "your" team do you mean that team you stole from KC?

A blessing for KC fans actually.