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View Full Version : What's the difference between Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds when it comes to steriods?


wutamess
04-14-2006, 12:34 AM
Why is MLB, congress and the the media out to get BB so quick when McGuire has basically done the same exact thing. BB is now possibly facing jail time and stripped of his records? Why isn't the same happening to Mark McGuire, Sosa, Palmero, Pudge and others?

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with racism and the fact that BB isn't the most likeable person to the media.

just wondering.

Taco John
04-14-2006, 12:37 AM
Difference:

McGuire is at home and out of the public eye. Bonds is playing baseball and has his own reality show.

I'm getting sick of this dumb ass question.

luv
04-14-2006, 12:37 AM
Why is MLB, congress and the the media out to get BB so quick when McGuire has basically done the same exact thing. BB is now possibly facing jail time and stripped of his records? Why isn't the same happening to Mark McGuire, Sosa, Palmero, Pudge and others?

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with racism and the fact that BB isn't the most likeable person to the media.

just wondering.
How can it be racism when all of the people you mentioned aren't all white?

Were they legal? Not just to baseball, but I mean legal legal. Were they prescribed, or was he paying some dealer on the street?

These may be commonly known answers. I'm just not up to speed on the whole story.

Dunit35
04-14-2006, 12:38 AM
Difference:

McGuire is at home and out of the public eye. Bonds is playing baseball and has his own reality show.

I'm getting sick of this dumb ass question.

and Bonds is a complete ass too.

ENDelt260
04-14-2006, 12:39 AM
When I read the thread title I was all ready to jump in here with a great joke... "It's cause he's black." But, damned if someone didn't beat me to it.

Rausch
04-14-2006, 12:40 AM
Big Mac tried to pretend he wasn't an ass, Barry doens't even attempt to hide it...

Miles
04-14-2006, 12:42 AM
If McGuire did take the stuff, which seems likely, he was not supplied from the same source as Bonds. The problems Bonds is facing with the new perjury talk today was from his testimony which is specific to the investigation of Balco rather than the general use of steroids in the league.

I think the general talk being out to get Bonds has to do with how obvious it seemed, his season home run record, and him being an unlikable person to most people.

Fishpicker
04-14-2006, 12:47 AM
bonds seems to be playing into his detractors hands when he makes inflamatory statements.

palmiero and mcGuire arent any better IMO but they play the PC aspect a little better.

plus, it helps when President Bush will go out on a limb
to speak for palmero's defense. that was after palmero tested positive but, facts dont sway W's opinion.

tk13
04-14-2006, 01:13 AM
Plus, McGwire was always a masher. He was a home run power hitter. That was who he was. Bonds was a great player, but he was a more all-around OF with great speed, and some good pop who buffed up considerably and changed over his career. McGwire didn't really, he came in a power guy and went out a power guy, he buffed up quite a bit, like everybody else did because weight training became so popular, but he still holds the MLB record for home runs as a rookie.

McGwire taking batting practice is one of the most inhuman athletic feats I've ever seen. I mean, there's nobody even in his league, not even Bonds. Bonds is a better pure hitter but he didn't have the ridiculous power McGwire did. He didn't exactly hit a ton of fence scrapers. If you wanted my honest opinion, even if steroids had never been introduced into the game, McGwire still could've weight trained and hit a ridiculous amount of homers. So he's not quite as strong... the home runs are gonna go 430 feet rather than 450? It's still a homer. If he took steroids, it probably wasn't right, but I don't think it'd would've made a huge difference in terms of his final numbers. Plus Bonds is still in the game. McGwire's not.

HolmeZz
04-14-2006, 01:23 AM
Bonds gets alot of the heat because he's just an ass as a person. If he was white and acted like he does, he'd get the same treatment from the media and the public IMO.

And I believe if he was a genuinely good person and good with the media, race completely aside, he'd have a lot more support from the general population.

ck_IN
04-14-2006, 01:26 AM
I don't think that racism has anything to do with it. The fact that Bonds is such an insufferable azzhole has much to do with it.

htismaqe
04-14-2006, 05:34 AM
Racism? I think not.

McGwire's link to steroids is circumstantial at best. And for the andro thing, he publically apologized. Conversely, Bond's link to Balco is pretty damn solid and he's never shown one shred of remorse, unless you consider him whining about how the media has ruined his life to be "remorse".

1adam1238
04-14-2006, 05:42 AM
Bonds gets alot of the heat because he's just an ass as a person. If he was white and acted like he does, he'd get the same treatment from the media and the public IMO.

And I believe if he was a genuinely good person and good with the media, race completely aside, he'd have a lot more support from the general population.


Now that seems funny to use that termonology.

Amnorix
04-14-2006, 05:53 AM
McGwire is out of baseball. It's that simple. If he was still in it, people would be howling just as loud.

The fact that Bonds is one of the biggest total A-holes in all of sports, regardless of race, doesn't help him any either.

chagrin
04-14-2006, 06:07 AM
Difference:

McGuire is at home and out of the public eye. Bonds is playing baseball and has his own reality show.

I'm getting sick of this dumb ass question.

God, I can't believe it, I agree...it was all about the timing of the steroid "outrage" media frenzy, etc.

Cochise
04-14-2006, 06:10 AM
McGwire was a power hitter before roiding.

Bonds was a doubles hitter and base stealer that looked like the wind coulda blown him over.

Plus, McGwire had his season or three where he was mashing, but he didn't really do any permanent damage. He broke Maris' record but that was all. He doesn't hold that one anymore. Bonds is within striking distance of the most sacred record in sports.

Bonds is a lot worse for the sport than McGwire, who in return for his juicing really only got a couple years in the spotlight. McGwire was just the man in St. Louis for a few years. Bonds is trying to fraudulently estabish himself as the best ever.

cadmonkey
04-14-2006, 06:11 AM
1. McGwire is out of baseball
2. McGwire never denied take muscle enhancing suplements (Androsteindion) so if he took steriods its not as big of a surprise
3. Bonds is claiming he is the victim in all this
4. Bonds is a world class douche bag
5. there are records about to be broken that are going to be tainted and tarnished for ever unless something is done. unfortunatly the douche breaking the rules is black. just like Sosa was being called out last year.

The racism card should be thrown out seeing how most great batters these days are black, its just the numbers.

A lot of WHITE players who are pitchers seem to have lost a lot of velocity off their fastballs over the past couple of seasons. The difference is these guys aren't going to break records so they aren't in the spot light.

jjjayb
04-14-2006, 06:13 AM
bonds seems to be playing into his detractors hands when he makes inflamatory statements.

palmiero and mcGuire arent any better IMO but they play the PC aspect a little better.

plus, it helps when President Bush will go out on a limb
to speak for palmero's defense. that was after palmero tested positive but, facts dont sway W's opinion.


Can't we ever have a thread about any topic where someone doesn't have to blame Bush for all the problems of the world? You Bush haters are getting out of control. :rolleyes:

jspchief
04-14-2006, 06:18 AM
Barry Bonds is the central player named in the federal BALCO case. There's a lot more evidence pointing at Bonds than any of those other players.

I love how the media has chosen to ignore that crucial bit of info, in favor of pulling the race card from the bottom of the deck.

Cochise
04-14-2006, 06:18 AM
Can't we ever have a thread about any topic where someone doesn't have to blame Bush for all the problems of the world? You Bush haters are getting out of control. :rolleyes:

Obviously this is because Bush doesn't care about black people and is de debbil and eats teh babbies

StcChief
04-14-2006, 06:21 AM
Bonds always seemed like he was a second away from
'roid rage. HE is the main man in BALCO case.....

McGuire, Andro was legal at the time. Did he use steriods? Maybe, proof, other than Canseco book?

Not in baseball.

Any records if allowed will always have * next to them. visible or not.

chief52
04-14-2006, 06:48 AM
Point 1

[QUOTE=jspchief]Barry Bonds is the central player named in the federal BALCO case. There's a lot more evidence pointing at Bonds than any of those other players.


Point 2

Bonds is being investigated by the Grand Jury for lying to the Grand Jury. It is illegal to lie to the Grand Jury. He was told he would not be charged for anything he admitted to the Grand Jury, but he would be charged with perjury if he lied.

phisherman
04-14-2006, 07:13 AM
i think old roger's just stirring the pot a little bit

bp

MahiMike
04-14-2006, 07:22 AM
McGuire timed it right. Barry is trying to break the biggest record in sports thus he's deemed the steroids poster child.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 07:35 AM
The reason this is the biggest joke in the planet is that the majority of baseball players have been on performance enhancing drugs since the 50's. Baseball is a joke...and so are these "leaders" following up on this case.

OnTheWarpath58
04-14-2006, 07:38 AM
Barry Bonds is the central player named in the federal BALCO case. There's a lot more evidence pointing at Bonds than any of those other players.

I love how the media has chosen to ignore that crucial bit of info, in favor of pulling the race card from the bottom of the deck.


Exactly. Read "Game of Shadows." Damning evidence to say the least.

Bonds screwed himself. He involved himself with Greg Anderson. He pissed off Kimberly Bell. He lied to a grand jury. He didn't report all of his income/pay taxes.

Oh yeah.....and he's a smug asshole. Jeff Kent must not have any information for the Fibbies, 'cuz I figured he'd be waiting in line to throw BB under the bus.

chubychecker
04-14-2006, 07:51 AM
This is easy; the biggest debate has been what to do with the record books during the steroid era. Mark holds NO RECORDS. If he was still the single season home run champ he would be under heavier scrutiny. As has been mentioned if he was still in the game, he would be under heavier scrutiny. If it is truly racism that is the driving force; why isn't sheffield getting raked over the coals?

DaWolf
04-14-2006, 08:04 AM
BALCO, and people don't like Bonds. They can easily make an example of Bonds with the alleged info they have.

Still, you'd have to be blind not to aknowlege that McGwire was a user. I think he started on the stuff from the very start. He and Sosa are both lucky they're out of the game, they get to avoid scrutiny.

I really don't feel it's because he's black though. If these charges were coming up against, say, someone like Clemente or Ernie Banks, it wouldn't be the same. Conversely, if you replaced Barry Bonds with Jose Canseco, you'd have the same scenario happening...

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 08:22 AM
I don't think it's because he's black either. I think it's because the inner child in pathetic beings want to drive to some non-existent destination in a hippocrite car. The truth is baseball has been juiced since the 50's. At the very least the majority of players took uppers. So all this talk about Bonds being cheater is ironic. Most of them have always been cheaters.

Color Red
04-14-2006, 08:25 AM
Bonds is in the spotlight, as he has been over the past several years, for approaching the all time homerun record --he is on a daily home run watch. It happens to be a record for hitting that especially benefits the buffed up steroid user.

wutamess
04-14-2006, 08:38 AM
The reason this is the biggest joke in the planet is that the majority of baseball players have been on performance enhancing drugs since the 50's. Baseball is a joke...and so are these "leaders" following up on this case.

That is my point exactly. Just so happens that Bonds is about to break baseballs most sacred record and now he's constantly getting roadblocks in his way. That alone leads me to believe part of it is racism. McGwire broke Maris' record and the country cheered him on (while everyone speculated that he was on something). Bonds breaks the record a couple of years later and the shit hits the fan.

Now that Bonds is closer to Babe Ruth that means it's going to be that much more speculation and obstacles in the way.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 08:42 AM
Look at what people did to Maris. Most people aren't old enough to remember and others contend the stress ultimately killed him before his time.

Frazod
04-14-2006, 08:43 AM
First and foremost, Bonds brings this crap upon himself because he's a DICK. I know you like to see race issues in everything, but that's just not the case. The lily-white Pete Rose has also been castigated by baseball and the media, first and foremost because he's a DICK. Of course, Pete didn't lie to Congress. Not that he wouldn't have if given the opportunity.

I personally don't feel that Congress should have ever become involved in baseball - God knows they've got better things to do. But what's done is done. Lying to Congress = big mistake, regardless of skin color.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 08:45 AM
First and foremost, Bonds brings this crap upon himself because he's a DICK. I know you like to see race issues in everything, but that's just not the case. The lily-white Pete Rose has also been castigated by baseball and the media, first and foremost because he's a DICK. Of course, Pete didn't lie to Congress. Not that he wouldn't have if given the opportunity.

I personally don't feel that Congress should have ever become involved in baseball - God knows they've got better things to do. But what's done is done. Lying to Congress = big mistake, regardless of skin color.

I live in Virginia and you can bet this jackass senator davis is going to hear about wasting his time on this garbage instead of serving Virginia.

Kclee
04-14-2006, 08:46 AM
That is my point exactly. Just so happens that Bonds is about to break baseballs most sacred record and now he's constantly getting roadblocks in his way. That alone leads me to believe part of it is racism.

Hank Aaron is black.

Bonds being guilty is the reason there are roadblocks.

Cochise
04-14-2006, 08:47 AM
Just so happens that Bonds is about to break baseballs most sacred record and now he's constantly getting roadblocks in his way. That alone leads me to believe part of it is racism.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the guy who currently holds the record is black.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 08:48 AM
Hank Aaron is black.

Bonds being guilty is the reason there are roadblocks.

HA was beat up pretty good to for being Black and breaking Ruth's record too. And HA took uppers...which is a performacing enhancing drug...so what's the difference?

Cochise
04-14-2006, 08:48 AM
Hank Aaron is black.

Bonds being guilty is the reason there are roadblocks.

DAMN YOU! I'm too slow.

That's what I get for working :D

Katipan
04-14-2006, 08:53 AM
HA was beat up pretty good to for being Black and breaking Ruth's record too. And HA took uppers...which is a performacing enhancing drug...so what's the difference?

Uppers don't increase muscle mass

Kclee
04-14-2006, 08:55 AM
HA was beat up pretty good to for being Black and breaking Ruth's record too. And HA took uppers...which is a performacing enhancing drug...so what's the difference?


Actually, I think the difference (race aside) is that something can be done about Bonds because he is still playing. I think if he would have retired the year after breaking the single season HR record, most of this wouldn't be happening. JMO.

Duck Dog
04-14-2006, 08:58 AM
How could it be racism when one black man is chasing another black mans record? That part doesn't make sense.

You'd have to go all the way down to #28 on the list to find the first active white player. That would be Jeff Bagwell with 449.

How could racism play a roll on BB chasing Aaron's record?

Duck Dog
04-14-2006, 09:00 AM
Hank Aaron is black.

Bonds being guilty is the reason there are roadblocks.


Thats what I get for using spell check. :banghead:

Kclee
04-14-2006, 09:01 AM
How could it be racism when one black man is chasing another black mans record? That part doesn't make sense.

You'd have to go all the way down to #28 on the list to find the first active white player. That would be Jeff Bagwell with 449.

How could racism play a roll on BB chasing Aaron's record?

Heh. It doesn't have to make sense. The race card was played. So just say you're sorry and feel guilty.

Cochise
04-14-2006, 09:03 AM
Heh. It doesn't have to make sense. The race card was played. So just say you're sorry and feel guilty.

ROFL :clap:

Katipan
04-14-2006, 09:03 AM
Heh.

Could you imagine... just IMAGINE the outcry if it was a white guy still cheating to break a black man's record.

duncan_idaho
04-14-2006, 09:08 AM
HA was beat up pretty good to for being Black and breaking Ruth's record too. And HA took uppers...which is a performacing enhancing drug...so what's the difference?

Is there a damning chain of evidence proving Aaron took uppers? No. Until there is, you can't make that statement in comparison to Bonds.

There are suspicions/allegations Aaron took uppers; there are suspicions/allegations McGwire took steroids. There's a multitude of proof Bonds used steroids.

And, for me, when you get down the core of the issue, the question is the advantage gained. Bonds gained far more from his cheating than either of those two.

If Aaron DID use uppers, they were taken to deal with the grind of the season. They didn't make him stronger. Besides, one of the keys to hitting is relaxing and concentrating—taking something that hops you up could be a disadvantage, too, if it affects your ability to remain still and focus.

McGwire most likely began using steroids around 1992/93... that's when he got REALLY huge. He started training with his brother, and the purpose was improving his ability to stay healthy. He always had the pop—the key for him was staying 100 percent and staying on the field. McGwire always had enough power to break the single-season home run record—see his rookie season. So for him, if he used steroids, it was not about increasing the distance he could hit the ball. He already was a home run hitter of epic proportion.

The biggest reason Bonds (other than actually getting caught and being proven a cheater) seems like more of a cheater is that he COMPLETELY changed his game... He elevated his game at a point in his career when every other player in baseball history (some pitchers aside) has declined. Using steroids allowed him to do something NO ONE ever thought he could.

Chief Chief
04-14-2006, 09:12 AM
It's all because President G. W. Bush & Co. took a stance to crack down on steroids.

When Mark McGwire was sendin' balls over the walls, Bill Clinton was president and he was endorsing steroids since he was an avid user in worthless attempts to increase the size of his schlong in the hopes it would choke Monica Lewinsky to death.

KingPriest2
04-14-2006, 09:15 AM
Stupid.

This is not racism.

Also they cannot take his records away The rule was not implemented imto; 2003 or 4 Even Selig said that can't take his records away

Katipan
04-14-2006, 09:28 AM
Is there a damning chain of evidence proving Aaron took uppers? No. Until there is, you can't make that statement in comparison to Bonds.

There are suspicions/allegations Aaron took uppers; there are suspicions/allegations McGwire took steroids. There's a multitude of proof Bonds used steroids.

And, for me, when you get down the core of the issue, the question is the advantage gained. Bonds gained far more from his cheating than either of those two.

If Aaron DID use uppers, they were taken to deal with the grind of the season. They didn't make him stronger. Besides, one of the keys to hitting is relaxing and concentrating—taking something that hops you up could be a disadvantage, too, if it affects your ability to remain still and focus.

McGwire most likely began using steroids around 1992/93... that's when he got REALLY huge. He started training with his brother, and the purpose was improving his ability to stay healthy. He always had the pop—the key for him was staying 100 percent and staying on the field. McGwire always had enough power to break the single-season home run record—see his rookie season. So for him, if he used steroids, it was not about increasing the distance he could hit the ball. He already was a home run hitter of epic proportion.

The biggest reason Bonds (other than actually getting caught and being proven a cheater) seems like more of a cheater is that he COMPLETELY changed his game... He elevated his game at a point in his career when every other player in baseball history (some pitchers aside) has declined. Using steroids allowed him to do something NO ONE ever thought he could.


The ballpark they built for Bonds is pretty tho.

jlscorpio
04-14-2006, 09:31 AM
McGuire=Bonds. All these people puting "if" in front of Big Mac are idiots. Mac and Bonds were both mashers before they did roids. However their change in appearance/numbers is proof enough for me. NOBODY adds 50 lbs of muscle in 6 months. McGuire made the same transformation as Bonds. His BS testimony (or lack thereof) in front of congress made him look like more of an @$$ than Bonds' A-hole personality ever has.

duncan_idaho
04-14-2006, 09:42 AM
McGuire=Bonds. All these people puting "if" in front of Big Mac are idiots. Mac and Bonds were both mashers before they did roids. However their change in appearance/numbers is proof enough for me. NOBODY adds 50 lbs of muscle in 6 months. McGuire made the same transformation as Bonds. His BS testimony (or lack thereof) in front of congress made him look like more of an @$$ than Bonds' A-hole personality ever has.

Bonds was a line-drive hitter before steroids... he hit home runs, yes, but he wasn't really a "masher."

And you're right—McGwire is just as big of an asshole as Bonds. He just attempts to hide it when the cameras are on.

If McGwire had been linked to a lab such as BALCO during his playing career (say, in 2000), he would been just as publicly villified.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 09:43 AM
Uppers don't increase muscle mass

Neither do steroids. Bottom line...either you're cheating or you're not...there is no almost pregnant..you can't dig half a hole...and their is no slightly cheating. So either you damn them all...or let it by. But you don't be a hippocrite.

Mr. Laz
04-14-2006, 09:44 AM
What's the difference between Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds when it comes to steriods?.

because everyone hates black people

Katipan
04-14-2006, 09:44 AM
Growth does.

And you understand that as a society evolves, testing and stuff becomes far more readily available? Laws change, get added, get enforced. I mean gosh. Shall we live in the idealogy of HA's day just because he lived in it?

It's all wrong. But because it's all wrong and you want it to keep being all wrong. WE WILL GO THE WAY OF THE ROMANS.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 09:45 AM
Is there a damning chain of evidence proving Aaron took uppers? No. Until there is, you can't make that statement in comparison to Bonds.

There are suspicions/allegations Aaron took uppers; there are suspicions/allegations McGwire took steroids. There's a multitude of proof Bonds used steroids.

And, for me, when you get down the core of the issue, the question is the advantage gained. Bonds gained far more from his cheating than either of those two.

If Aaron DID use uppers, they were taken to deal with the grind of the season. They didn't make him stronger. Besides, one of the keys to hitting is relaxing and concentrating—taking something that hops you up could be a disadvantage, too, if it affects your ability to remain still and focus.

McGwire most likely began using steroids around 1992/93... that's when he got REALLY huge. He started training with his brother, and the purpose was improving his ability to stay healthy. He always had the pop—the key for him was staying 100 percent and staying on the field. McGwire always had enough power to break the single-season home run record—see his rookie season. So for him, if he used steroids, it was not about increasing the distance he could hit the ball. He already was a home run hitter of epic proportion.

The biggest reason Bonds (other than actually getting caught and being proven a cheater) seems like more of a cheater is that he COMPLETELY changed his game... He elevated his game at a point in his career when every other player in baseball history (some pitchers aside) has declined. Using steroids allowed him to do something NO ONE ever thought he could.

baseball players in general have be "beaning up" take "greenies" since the 50's...it's already tainted. Don't you get it? They are all cheaters.

wutamess
04-14-2006, 10:49 AM
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the guy who currently holds the record is black.

I'm aware of this but I don't think that McGwire would be scrutinized as much as he hasn't been when he broke one of baseballs other most sacred records.

Coincidentally, I don't think that Griffey Junior would be as shunned as Bonds is if he was close also so I guess it is mostly about his performance enhancements. All I'm saying is McGwire was given the key to the U.S. after breaking the record of course he isn't a dik but still it was accepted with open arms. Bonds gets a thank you for being one of the greatest players of all time but where are the roids? While McGwire obviously did the same thing. Out of baseball or not.

HolmeZz
04-14-2006, 10:53 AM
Now that seems funny to use that termonology.

Well I don't see the humor.

Garcia Bronco
04-14-2006, 11:08 AM
Growth does.

And you understand that as a society evolves, testing and stuff becomes far more readily available? Laws change, get added, get enforced. I mean gosh. Shall we live in the idealogy of HA's day just because he lived in it?

It's all wrong. But because it's all wrong and you want it to keep being all wrong. WE WILL GO THE WAY OF THE ROMANS.

When you are comparing HA to BB...you are talking at least in part about the conditions in which HA attained the numbers. My opiniokn is it doesn't matter because they all cheated. Cleaning it up and moving forward is a different topic. All steriods allow you to do is workout more frequently by repairing ripped muscles faster...i.e. you can work the same groups multiple days in a row. Uppers on the other hand allow for better concentration in a dull sport with limited action for each player. What's the difference then? The majority of all of them cheated. It's already tainted. Do I think steriods should be illegal? No. Do I think Bonds cheated? Sure. But no more than the majority of other guys.

Katipan
04-14-2006, 11:12 AM
<shrug> I hate the man with a passion. I'd run him over with a golf cart and then stick my golf spikes in his spinchter. I don't like McGuire or Sosa either. But one is retired and the other is retarded. So I don't have to deal with him. Bonds needs to not break the record if he wants in the HOF. But other than that, and a year in jail for perjury just because i think it would be funny, even with my hatred of him, I have no problem with him keeping his glory.

tk13
04-14-2006, 12:28 PM
baseball players in general have be "beaning up" take "greenies" since the 50's...it's already tainted. Don't you get it? They are all cheaters.
It's funny how you mock baseball over and over yet support a game in football that's had steroid problems going back quite a long time. Heck, some people contend most of the 70's Steelers, the greatest team of all time, was heavy on roids... and look at how many of their players have died young. Maybe we should just call the game of football a bunch of cheaters too...