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View Full Version : Interesting: Chiefs War Room Shake Up... I didn't know.


nychief
04-14-2006, 09:59 PM
this is from that Most Valuable Network, so take it for what its worth...but I found this interesting.

A facelift in the Chiefs’ War Room

First, allow me to comment to all disgruntled Chiefs fans (or draft enthusiasts) that cringe looking back at the numerous day 1 busts under the Chiefs’ watch (Siavii, Freeman, Downing, even Ryan Sims, among many others).

What’s amazing about the Chiefs’ first day draft busts, is that the Chiefs are one of the more effective teams in the league at drafting in the second day. This is a telltale sign that the scouting department knows what they’re doing, but the personnel heads are clueless. Credit Chuck Cook for great late round picks, like Parker, Thorpe, and Allen; discredit the head honcho of personnel, Lynn Stiles, for the numerous first day busts. The word on the street is that Stiles’ methods of scouting are antiquated–he relied more on phone calls and word-of-mouth recommendations than on actual scouting.

The good news is, Stiles is no longer heading up the war room. He volunteered to leave his draft responsibilities (whether he was pushed out or voluntarily walked out is up to debate). Regardless, Stiles was leading a leaky ship for way too long, and clearly should have been held accountable a long time ago for the Chiefs’ day 1 draft failures.

He was replaced with Bill Kuharich, who held similar responsibilities for New Orleans. The point of concerns is that he wasn’t a draft guru in New Orleans either. In fact, apart from Willie Roaf, he does not have a history of drafting impact players. However, he does bring new blood into the war room and I’d like to believe he can’t be any worse than Stiles. The hope is that he will listen to his scouts more than Stiles did. Considering how successful Cook has been landing players in day 2, imagine how successful he could be if he had input on who gets picked in day 1. To boot, they hired another former scout by the name of Herm Edwards who has so far been very involved in this year’s scouting process. None of these points guarantees any success, but there is plenty of reason to believe that their perpetual draft day gaffes are a thing of the past.

nychief
04-14-2006, 10:00 PM
there is more...

http://chiefs.mostvaluablenetwork.com/general/2006-draft-overview-kansas-city-chiefs/

TEX
04-14-2006, 10:03 PM
Wow, I sure feel better knowing someone once in the Saints organization will be drafting players for the Chiefs...

Adept Havelock
04-14-2006, 10:15 PM
So this is supposed to be good news?

"Great news, Sir! We just hired a new head of security for our munitions factory. All we had to do was wait for him to get paroled after those 7 arson convictions". :rolleyes:

milkman
04-14-2006, 10:19 PM
Break out the paper bags, boys!

Mecca
04-14-2006, 10:23 PM
Can't be any worse.......

Pitt Gorilla
04-14-2006, 10:26 PM
Um, how about letting Cook run the show (behind Herm, or course)?

Adept Havelock
04-14-2006, 10:37 PM
Um, how about letting Cook run the show (behind Herm, or course)?

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Letting Cook run the show? Brilliant!

SNR
04-14-2006, 10:42 PM
We haven't done too badly with Larry Johnson and Derrick Johnson (of course I'm assuming Johnson won't be a bust)

Count Zarth
04-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Sounds to me like we replaced one dummy with another.

greg63
04-14-2006, 10:48 PM
Can't be any worse.......

It could always be wrose.

greg63
04-14-2006, 10:50 PM
Sounds to me like we replaced one dummy with another.

Allow me to complement you on your choice of avatar.

Count Zarth
04-14-2006, 10:51 PM
Allow me to complement you on your choice of avatar.

GET BEHIND DOGPISS NOW!!! DOGPISS NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT VERSUS NUMBER ONE SEED HERZIG!!!!!

Guru
04-14-2006, 10:52 PM
It could always be wrose.


yeah, Carl could be running things. Oh.... wait.... :banghead:

morphius
04-14-2006, 10:52 PM
Wow, I sure feel better knowing someone once in the Saints organization will be drafting players for the Chiefs...
Yup, that hiring gave me no confidence at all.

Adept Havelock
04-14-2006, 10:54 PM
We haven't done too badly with Larry Johnson and Derrick Johnson (of course I'm assuming Johnson won't be a bust)

Yes, but LJ was Carl's pick, and DJ was a case where the whole league said "I can't believe this guy fell that far".

Just considering 1993-2005:
LJ and DJ and Tony G. don't quite counter-balance:

Ryan Sims (Highest pick since DT)
Sylvester Morris
John Tait
Victor Reilly
Jerome Woods
Trezelle Jenkins
Greg Hill

Then there's the other Day 1 busts like Eric Downing, Eddie Freeman, Etc.

I know several of these are not specifically Stiles fault, but they indicate a serious problem with 1'st day drafting. There were a few starters, but none really played at the level of a 1'st rounder, IMO. With the exception of Woods his first couple of years, and Tait in his last year with us (at RT, not LT where he was drafted).

Logical
04-14-2006, 11:33 PM
Isn't Kuharich the doofus who allowed the Saints to trade away their entire draft for Ricky Williams to make Mike Ditka happy?

booger
04-14-2006, 11:54 PM
Good article.

I clicked the link and read more on the site. One thing that caught my eye that bugs the piss out of me. They talk of replacing Trich and mention Cruz, Griffin, and Robert Holcombe. Holcombe isn't even on the roster and hasn't been since about the first month of the season last season. He was placed on IR late in the camp cutdowns and later got an injury settlement when his knee was healthy. Yet here and there you see his name mentioned as a potential FB replacement this year.

No biggie, just chaps my M......Focking arse. :)

chefsos
04-14-2006, 11:59 PM
Good article.

I clicked the link and read more on the site. One thing that caught my eye that bugs the piss out of me. They talk of replacing Trich and mention Cruz, Griffin, and Robert Holcombe. Holcombe isn't even on the roster and hasn't been since about the first month of the season last season. He was placed on IR late in the camp cutdowns and later got an injury settlement when his knee was healthy. Yet here and there you see his name mentioned as a potential FB replacement this year.

No biggie, just chaps my M......Focking arse. :)
Yeah, I keep seeing his name popping up too, but as far as I know the Chiefs don't have any claim to him at all, he's out there for anyone to sign...if he still has two functional knees.

greg63
04-15-2006, 12:05 AM
yeah, Carl could be running things. Oh.... wait.... :banghead:


:banghead::cuss:ROFL

booger
04-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Yeah, I keep seeing his name popping up too, but as far as I know the Chiefs don't have any claim to him at all, he's out there for anyone to sign...if he still has two functional knees.


Yup, only signed a one year deal. Besides, he was here for DV. A FB who could play RB as well. With us using less of a FB and more TE sets with Wilson playing H-back, I wouldn't see him fitting in even if he was on the roster.

booger
04-15-2006, 12:46 AM
I'd say they're dead on about Stiles. If you follow the whole UCLA DV, CP, and Stiles connection you've probably read or heard many of times about their long friendship and the fact that both Stiles and CP were assistant coaches on DV's staff at UCLA.

DV goes to Philly as coach and brings Carl along. CP wants to coach and DV advises him he is a better fit in an administrative role and gets him into the front office where he also brings in Stiles. CP later gets the GM gig of the USFL Philly Stars. Stiles goes back into coaching with the 49ers and wins a couple of super bowls before joining CP in KC back into a front office role. Notice that he was below both CP and Terry Bradway in that position. When DV got back into coaching with the Rams, Stiles followed as a TE coach for a year and back into the front office in St. Louie where they already had Shaw, Zygmunt, and Charlie Armey. As soon as DV retired in STL, he is back in KC under CP and Bradway again until Bradway leaves for the Jets.

Makes alot of sense why are drafts have sucked since '01. Bradway left and Stiles, not Kuharich ( joined KC in '00) was promoted to take his spot. So while Kuharich probably deserved the promotion he now has, Stiles got it because he was an old UCLA buddy.

Stiles actually did well on the pro personel end of things. He found Boerigter and Horn in other pro leagues and had sucsess with bargain FA's like Holmes and Weigmann. ( not sure to give him credit there because FA's are mostly players that fit into coaches offenses and defenses)

If you have heard any interviews with stiles on draft picks or prospects it is very humorous and sad. According to Whitlock he didn't even know who Roethlesburger was. When asked about Siavii he was shocked to see him lift up and Throw the stanford Guard on one particlular play he saw. Hell he loved monty Beisel from seeing him play in the Big 12 title game at arrowhead. Before that he probably didn't know he existed.

sedated
04-15-2006, 02:07 AM
John Tait
Victor Reilly
Jerome Woods


john tait was good, he just left (and that was carl's fault).

jerome woods was good before the injury, and then made the pro-bowl after.

greg63
04-15-2006, 02:09 AM
john tait was good, he just left (and that was carl's fault).

jerome woods was good before the injury, and then made the pro-bowl after.


Yep; those two didn't like each other from the start. Carl's an idiot!

Deberg_1990
04-15-2006, 07:00 AM
Whats been the most dissappointing thing to me is that we never get anything out of our 2nd round picks. Who was the last 2nd round pick we had that panned out???

Deberg_1990
04-15-2006, 07:02 AM
Whats been the most dissappointing thing to me is that we never get anything out of our 2nd round picks. Who was the last 2nd round pick we had that panned out???

I guess it was Mitchell.....He redeemed himself last year.

nychief
04-15-2006, 07:29 AM
I don't think having a new (sorta) director of the War Room will be a bad idea. I love that Herm will have a voice because I like his scouting background and hands on approach. Plus, I think Herm is going to draft PLAYERS not projects, real football players NOT athletes - because that is how he made it in the league a UFA football player - not a high rnd pick. I am excited about this draft - if for no other reason than I expect to see a different type of player drafted.

HC_Chief
04-15-2006, 07:32 AM
Been saying this for a while now: KC's scouting department is not bad; the second day picks reflect that fact. We always seem to find the best players later in the draft, and that's when the picks are by the scouting department.

Lzen
04-15-2006, 07:34 AM
Good article.

I clicked the link and read more on the site. One thing that caught my eye that bugs the piss out of me. They talk of replacing Trich and mention Cruz, Griffin, and Robert Holcombe. Holcombe isn't even on the roster and hasn't been since about the first month of the season last season. He was placed on IR late in the camp cutdowns and later got an injury settlement when his knee was healthy. Yet here and there you see his name mentioned as a potential FB replacement this year.

No biggie, just chaps my M......Focking arse. :)

Huh, that's interesting. I didn't realize that. Thanks for the info.

DaWolf
04-15-2006, 09:02 AM
Isn't Kuharich the doofus who allowed the Saints to trade away their entire draft for Ricky Williams to make Mike Ditka happy?
Yeah, although technically Ditka was the one pulling the strings, he was still the GM in name.

The article seems accurate:

Bill Kuharich was promoted to the post of Vice President of Player Personnel by Chiefs President Carl Peterson on February 10, 2006. He enters his first season in that role with Kansas City after spending the past three seasons as the club’s Vice President of Pro Personnel. He originally joined the Chiefs as Director of Pro Personnel in 2000.

“Bill’s outstanding background and experience certainly qualifies him to run an NFL franchise and we’re very pleased to have someone of his caliber and expertise working for the Kansas City Chiefs,” Peterson commented. “Bill Kuharich has tremendous experience in all aspects of player personnel and we will continue to lean on his expertise.”
link (http://www.kcchiefs.com/front_office/bill_kuharich/)

Lynn Stiles rejoined the Chiefs football family on February 29, 2000 when he was named the club’s Vice President of Football Operations. He returns to that role in 2006 after also carrying the additional duties of Vice President of Player Personnel for the club from 2001-05, a post he previously held with Kansas City from ‘92-96. Stiles returned to the Chiefs organization in 2000 after spending the three previous seasons (’97-99) in St. Louis as that club’s Vice President of Football Operations. In St. Louis he played a key role in helping Dick Vermeil and the Rams produce a win in Super Bowl XXXIV in ‘99. He also coached the Rams tight ends in ‘98-99.

In his current role with the Chiefs, Stiles manages various day-to-day football management issues for the club. He also works closely with Lamonte Winston and Kansas City’s player development department, which he played an integral role in establishing during his intial tenure with the team. Stiles was also instrumental in the formation of a player development program in St. Louis, working with Kevin Warren. link (http://www.kcchiefs.com/front_office/lynn_stiles/)

StcChief
04-15-2006, 09:18 AM
The proof will be in this draft and future ones under Bill Kuharich....
.
Hope the collective minds can start making day 1 good decisions.

booger
04-15-2006, 01:59 PM
Just another example of ego. That plus a touch of the good ole boy network.

I am not saying Stiles did or didn't belong in the front office. The 4 stints he had there 3 of them he was hired by Carl. Twice in KC and once in Philly. The other DV brought him to STL. It sure seems like he was in over his head from '01 - '05 and probably didn't deserve his title or responsibilities being second in charge of all player personel next to Carl. Our drafts sucked for the most part with our first day picks.

Alot of that IMO was DV as well. In '01 we didn't pick until the 3rd round. Robinson was enamored with Downing and had to have him. Saunders and DV were hell bent on changing the WR core and took Minnis. We pretty much had to take a DT the year we took Siavii. We didn't do anything in FA to address that and got stuck like we seem to often do with having to draft a specific postion with our first pick. Gun and everyone thought we should look into a wide body tackle and we reached on Siavii. Later Saunders just had to have Kris Wilson.

Both picks were reaches. Siavii was a raw DT with potential. Not to mention he was a 25 or 26 year old rookie that would have also caused him to drop. Wilson was a hybrid type player. At 6'2 250 he wasn't and probably isn't ever going to be considered a #1 TE because of his size. He is a HBack. They don't get drafted until the second day. If you reach you do it in the 3rd rd not the 2nd.

DV Loved Tyler Brayton and Chris Kelsey the year we took LJ. I won't put sims on anyone because he was a late riser on everyone's board and was a legit top 10 pick according to most. They had coaching insight from John Bunting on sims and Phillip Fulmer (him and CP have been good friends for years) on Henderson and haynesworth.

My problem is letting coaches, even assistants have so much imput on the first day of the draft. They don't even look at it probably until mid january to early february because of the season itself and end of the season evaluations. Yet the scouts do this from August until the draft and have followed these players for 3-4 years and have the knowledge on them, Hell it is their damn job to know these players. But once the draft comes the coaches step in and seem to know more than the scouts all of the sudden.

To me it's just stupid and ego driven.

Chuck Cook is a good scouting director and has hired and lost several good area scouts. I can't remember the year but it was recently in which len Pastabelly named him as an unsung type of guy as far as a draft evaluator. He listed 10 or so guys and when he talked about Cook and KC he mentioned to many people making descisions and not giving Cook enough input.

So to me when I hear Cook say ( access arrowhead recently) that he is happy Herm has been a scout, knows their job well, and wants their input and will give them more say, it seems like a good change to me.