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View Full Version : Barry Bonds watch...


Douche Baggins
04-18-2006, 08:43 AM
Current season stats:

.192 batting average

ZERO home runs

1 RBI

13 walks

3 strikeouts

Amnorix
04-18-2006, 08:45 AM
I'd be okay with every team/pitcher walking him every at-bat for the rest of his career. A silent rejection of his quest for any HR records.

Brock
04-18-2006, 08:46 AM
Hat Size 19

hawkchief
04-18-2006, 08:47 AM
Now that he is probably off of the roids, they won't need to walk him all the time to stip his home run derby BS. I hope he never hits another one in his career.

Dunit35
04-18-2006, 09:04 AM
I'd be okay with every team/pitcher walking him every at-bat for the rest of his career. A silent rejection of his quest for any HR records.


I feel the same way. If every pitcher walked him he'd never get the home run record. It's not like it's going to hurt the pitcher stats that much anyways.

StcChief
04-18-2006, 09:07 AM
BFD...Walk him for a month,
I want to see a post 'roid rage rant
in month of rejection.

Then force his retirement or kick him out.

Fruit Ninja
04-18-2006, 09:12 AM
His body is broke. he "may" catch Babe. but he wont catch Hank.

I just got done watching the 3 game series with the DOdgers. and he is limping really bad, and he cannot even swing properly. He cant even lock his front leg anymore while swinging. They were showing his 2004 swing and his swing now, and his knee will just not allow him to drive through. If he is going to be hitting homers its going to be all with his arms.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2006, 09:19 AM
And I thought I got a steal drafting him in the 7th round of my league... :cuss:

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 09:22 AM
His knee and elbow are going to keep him from doing a bunch of damage this year. Based on what I've thus far...he'll be lucky to pass Ruth.

Amnorix
04-18-2006, 09:24 AM
Superb! I hadn't heard that he was a complete physical mess. Excellent.

I haven't seen any baseball highlights or much ESPN lately, so I was completely out of the loop in terms of how he looks.

KCTitus
04-18-2006, 09:26 AM
Hat Size 19

Heh...I was just going to ask if what we're supposed to be watching is his head shrink during the course of the year.

jspchief
04-18-2006, 09:31 AM
His body is broke. he "may" catch Babe. but he wont catch Hank.

I just got done watching the 3 game series with the DOdgers. and he is limping really bad, and he cannot even swing properly. He cant even lock his front leg anymore while swinging. They were showing his 2004 swing and his swing now, and his knee will just not allow him to drive through. If he is going to be hitting homers its going to be all with his arms.I agree. I think these guys should be gunning for him every at bat until he proves he can still do it. He clearly isn't using his legs in his swing anymore. He's not going to hit many bombs using only his upper body.

Coincidence that when he's finally under the scrutiny of testing, he suddenly can't play baseball anymore. Can someone please tell me that steroids don't have anything to do with hitting homeruns again?

shakesthecat
04-18-2006, 09:37 AM
Can someone please tell me that steroids don't have anything to do with hitting homeruns again?


I'm sure Big Daddy will be along shortly to do just that.

Watching Bonds flame out this year will be one of the highlights of the baseball season.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 09:38 AM
I agree. I think these guys should be gunning for him every at bat until he proves he can still do it. He clearly isn't using his legs in his swing anymore. He's not going to hit many bombs using only his upper body.

Coincidence that when he's finally under the scrutiny of testing, he suddenly can't play baseball anymore. Can someone please tell me that steroids don't have anything to do with hitting homeruns again?

If he's still working out...it's not like the muscle mass disappears. But not being on the roids anymore means he can't workout like he used to. Steroids donnot create muscle...you still have to lift the weights...what they allow you to do is work the same muscle groups more frequently because the roids heal the ripped muscles faster.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 09:40 AM
Superb! I hadn't heard that he was a complete physical mess. Excellent.

I haven't seen any baseball highlights or much ESPN lately, so I was completely out of the loop in terms of how he looks.

I swear they lead off SC with everytime he plays. His knee caused him to miss most of last season and now his elbow is falling a part.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 09:42 AM
Gee, I wonder why his body might be breaking down.

Dunit35
04-18-2006, 09:43 AM
I swear they lead off SC with everytime he plays. His knee caused him to miss most of last season and now his elbow is falling a part.

Yep, all those steriods are starting to ruin his body. Supposedly he said he didn't care if his body fell apart later in his life, so he decided to take those steriods. I bet he didn't think his body would fall apart this fast. I'm betting as soon as he got off those roids his body started falling apart.

KCTitus
04-18-2006, 09:43 AM
Gee, I wonder why his body might be breaking down.

The Media.

jspchief
04-18-2006, 09:44 AM
If he's still working out...it's not like the muscle mass disappears. But not being on the roids anymore means he can't workout like he used to. Steroids donnot create muscle...you still have to lift the weights...what they allow you to do is work the same muscle groups more frequently because the roids heal the ripped muscles faster.Are you saying that faster recovery that in turn allows more rapid muscle growth has no positive effects for baseball players?

I know how steroids work. I also know that the "he still has to hit the ball with the bat" argument in defense of steroids in baseball is ridiculous.

There have been a lot of people (on this site and others) that for a long time have claimed that the steroid use is of no consequence to the homerun. Unfortunately for the people making those arguments, the collapse of players like Sosa and Bonds the instant they were put under the microscope of steroid testing, makes that argument even less believable than it already was.

Ari Chi3fs
04-18-2006, 09:51 AM
Major Warning Track Power, bro. Serious.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 09:59 AM
Are you saying that faster recovery that in turn allows more rapid muscle growth has no positive effects for baseball players?

I know how steroids work. I also know that the "he still has to hit the ball with the bat" argument in defense of steroids in baseball is ridiculous.

There have been a lot of people (on this site and others) that for a long time have claimed that the steroid use is of no consequence to the homerun. Unfortunately for the people making those arguments, the collapse of players like Sosa and Bonds the instant they were put under the microscope of steroid testing, makes that argument even less believable than it already was.

I don't think it's without consequence to the hitter's ability, but some make it sound as if all a hitter had to do was roid up and that's it. You still have to put the work in. You still have to have the skill to connect to an 80 MPH plus fast ball. Bottom line is..without specifics it's all academic, it could be solely because of roids or ability with roids, but you'd have a hard time proving it one way or another without empirical data. Bonds is 42 years old...that might have something to do with it as well. Sosa was using corked bats for who knows how long. Just because there is a cause doesn't mean it's the cause.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 10:03 AM
Yep, all those steriods are starting to ruin his body. Supposedly he said he didn't care if his body fell apart later in his life, so he decided to take those steriods. I bet he didn't think his body would fall apart this fast. I'm betting as soon as he got off those roids his body started falling apart.

One thing is certain...he probably had a dependancy, and like any junkie...it's going to take some time to get right again.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 10:09 AM
I don't think it's without consequence to the hitter's ability, but some make it sound as if all a hitter had to do was roid up and that's it. You still have to put the work in. You still have to have the skill to connect to an 80 MPH plus fast ball.

He was already a great hitter, if not a legendary one.

I don't think it's a coincidence however that in the span of like one year at age 36 he goes from looking like Willie Wilson to the Hulk, all his hair comes out, and his OPS goes up .300

I'd bet dollars to donuts he's still on HGH or anything else they aren't testing for anyways.

jspchief
04-18-2006, 10:11 AM
I don't think it's without consequence to the hitter's ability, but some make it sound as if all a hitter had to do was roid up and that's it. You still have to put the work in. You still have to have the skill to connect to an 80 MPH plus fast ball. Bottom line is..without specifics it's all academic, it could be solely because of roids or ability with roids, but you'd have a hard time proving it one way or another without empirical data. Bonds is 42 years old...that might have something to do with it as well. Sosa was using corked bats for who knows how long. Just because there is a cause doesn't mean it's the cause.I don't think anyone is trying to say these guys would suck without steroids. Bonds claerly has a great eye for hitting.

But did steroids allow these guys to recover enough to hit in a few extra games per year, or hit at 100% instead of 80% a few times? Or did the added muscle they gained from steroid use push a few warning track balls over the fence?

It's not a matter of whether these guys were rec league softballers or pro players. It's a matter of 45 HR seasons instead of 60, and 500 career homers instead of 700.

There will never be proof. But that doesn't mean there isn't enough there for me and a lot of others to form opinions.

Dunit35
04-18-2006, 10:11 AM
One thing is certain...he probably had a dependancy, and like any junkie...it's going to take some time to get right again.

Yeah, but fortunately that's what Barry Bonds doesn't have.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 10:22 AM
I'd bet dollars to donuts he's still on HGH or anything else they aren't testing for anyways.


When is a performance enhancer cheating? I say let them do whatever and may the best man on performance enhancers win. Obviously steroids are different from amphetamines or caffeine...but if they enhance your game performance..is that cheating? Where do we draw the line? What's the difference between taking steroids for working out to compete in the game or taking a drug to compete during the game? Baseball has done this to iself with weak leadership. The 94 strike was pale in comparsion for the days to come for baseball.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 10:25 AM
The 94 strike was pale in comparsion for the days to come for baseball.

I disagree totally. The steroid fiasco has underminded fans' faith in the integrity of the game and its historic records. Baseball needs to convince people that there isn't widespread cheating going on by taking serious steps to eliminate it, and the future will be brighter, not dim.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 10:27 AM
I disagree totally. The steroid fiasco has underminded fans' faith in the integrity of the game and its historic records. Baseball needs to convince people that there isn't widespread cheating going on by taking serious steps to eliminate it, and the future will be brighter, not dim.

the reaosn I say that is because baseball has sold a product it can no longer deliver.

58-4ever
04-18-2006, 10:28 AM
I'll bet he dies before he is 55.

ChiefsfaninPA
04-18-2006, 10:33 AM
Regardless if he is on the roids or not, ALL of these athletes take some sort of supplements that give them an edge. But this is there business, to be the best player they can be to be successful. And while I wouldn't take steroids (because I am afraid of the health risks) I am also not an athlete that makes MILLIONS for performing to entertain people. I think it is funny we have a guy on our own team who was suspended for roids but no one is making a big deal about him. Who is really surprised that these guys are on something? I for one am not.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 10:41 AM
I think it is funny we have a guy on our own team who was suspended for roids but no one is making a big deal about him.

It's a little different to a fan when a AA-ball chump tests positive than it is when someone is on a roid-fueled chase at the most hallowed record in sports.

Ari Chi3fs
04-18-2006, 10:43 AM
Is getting Lasik eye surgery cheating?

58-4ever
04-18-2006, 10:49 AM
Is getting Lasik eye surgery cheating?

No, and steroids were not either until a few years ago. That is what people lose track of. Many of the pitchers Bonds faced were using on the juice too.

jspchief
04-18-2006, 10:53 AM
No, and steroids were not either until a few years ago. That is what people lose track of. Many of the pitchers Bonds faced were using on the juice too.My problem isn't about whether it was banned in baseball. My problem is that people that are willing to break the law are given a competitive advantage over people who aren't.

As far as I'm concerned, if it's legal, and within the rules of the sport, go ahead and do whatever you need to do to get better.

58-4ever
04-18-2006, 10:57 AM
My problem isn't about whether it was banned in baseball. My problem is that people that are willing to break the law are given a competitive advantage over people who aren't.

As far as I'm concerned, if it's legal, and within the rules of the sport, go ahead and do whatever you need to do to get better.

That was my point, well the last part was but you contradicted yourself. Do you have a problem with it or not? Who hasn't broken "the law"?? **** the law.

jspchief
04-18-2006, 10:59 AM
How did I contradict myself?

58-4ever
04-18-2006, 11:03 AM
You said you have a problem with it b/c it breaks the law and then you said go ahead and do whatever you want if it's within the confines of the rules.

58-4ever
04-18-2006, 11:04 AM
But I'm not here to argue semantics b/c I think we were headed towards the same point.

BigRock
04-18-2006, 11:08 AM
I hope Bonds' big head explodes, but I don't think we can say he suddenly can't play now that there's testing going on. He was tested last season too and was on pace for something like 60 home runs in the limited action he saw. There didn't seem to be anything wrong with him then.

Plus, it's awfully early to say stuff like that. He's only had like 25 at bats. Mike Sweeney's stats are just as bad and I'm hoping he'll get it figured out.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 11:10 AM
I don't think the issue is being framed correctly here.

Does anyone still deny that Barry Bonds used steroids? It doesn't seem like anyone seriously believes he has always been clean.

Given that, does anyone maintain that he would still have 700+ home runs today if he had always been clean? The guy who was just barely over 400 when he turned 35?

I don't think the legal nuts and bolts matter to most fans. They aren't going to cut him any slack. Those stats will be regarded as tainted. They don't care if something was legal back then but not now, or if it was illegal but untested, or if he claims he didn't know what he was using.

All fans will care about is would he have had these records without them. I don't know anyone who maintains that position.

He'll go down in history as "Yeah, Bonds was a great player, but..."

jspchief
04-18-2006, 11:10 AM
You said you have a problem with it b/c it breaks the law and then you said go ahead and do whatever you want if it's within the confines of the rules.That's not a contradiction.

As long as it's legal and within the rules go ahead and do whatever. But as soon as you cheat or break the law, you are forcing your opponents to do the same or suffer a competitive disadvantage.

In other words, whether it's lasik, health supplements, diet, hyperbaric chamber, or anything else you feel makes you a better player, go ahead and do it. As long as you're not breaking the law or the rules.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 11:17 AM
I don't think the issue is being framed correctly here.

Does anyone still deny that Barry Bonds used steroids? It doesn't seem like anyone seriously believes he has always been clean.

Given that, does anyone maintain that he would still have 700+ home runs today if he had always been clean? The guy who was just barely over 400 when he turned 35?

I don't think the legal nuts and bolts matter to most fans. They aren't going to cut him any slack. Those stats will be regarded as tainted. They don't care if something was legal back then but not now, or if it was illegal but untested, or if he claims he didn't know what he was using.

All fans will care about is would he have had these records without them. I don't know anyone who maintains that position.

He'll go down in history as "Yeah, Bonds was a great player, but..."

I will argue the issue with anyone hell bent on Bonds hate, but I don't believe he's been clean. I just find it diffcult to believe that people would single out this one guy when the rest are just as guilty, including but not limited to baseball owners and MLB officials. when you get right down to where the rubber meets the road...the majority of baseball players have been taking pills, usually called greenies, to keep their focus during games since the 50's. If that isn't performance enhancing I don't know what is....

Cochise
04-18-2006, 11:30 AM
I just find it diffcult to believe that people would single out this one guy when the rest are just as guilty...

I agree that there are many others that are guilty. But that fact doesn't make it wrong for Bonds to be under scrutiny for it.

If 10 people are speeding on the highway and only one gets a ticket, is that person being 'singled out' or suffering some grave injustice? Or is he getting the predictable consequence of his action, regardless of the behavior of others?

jspchief
04-18-2006, 11:35 AM
I agree that there are many others that are guilty. But that fact doesn't make it wrong for Bonds to be under scrutiny for it.

If 10 people are speeding on the highway and only one gets a ticket, is that person being 'singled out' or suffering some grave injustice? Or is he getting the predictable consequence of his action, regardless of the behavior of others?Agree, and would that there are factors surrounding Bonds that do not exist with a lot of these other guys.

Such as:
He's a dick. People enjoy hating him.
He's closely tied to the federal BALCO investigation, thus more damning evidence than others
He's the only active player that is on the cusp of reaching some significant historical benchmarks.

Most people realize he's not the only guilty party. I've said for years that MLB shoulders a lot of blame for not taking a hard line on steroids during labor talks. But right now Barry is the poster child for the problem, and will get a lot of the heat because of it.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2006, 11:40 AM
If 10 people are speeding on the highway and only one gets a ticket, is that person being 'singled out' or suffering some grave injustice?

IMO yes...but you're talking to the wrong bias person. I hate ticket cops...I hate the judges that work traffic court and the generation that allowed this garbage to start.

Cochise
04-18-2006, 12:01 PM
IMO yes...but you're talking to the wrong bias person. I hate ticket cops...I hate the judges that work traffic court and the generation that allowed this garbage to start.

He did something. He's getting forseeable outcome of it. Where's the injustice? What does it have to do with others?

I can't go steal a car and then tell the judge, "What's the big deal, people get away with this all the time so it's unfair to punish me!"

If I get sent to jail for stealing a car, because I am guilty of stealing a car, is that injustice?

fan4ever
04-18-2006, 12:28 PM
I think this scenario is exactly how Bonds wants it. He only needs to crank a few more homers to pass Ruth, and then he can retire because of his injuries without being the villian who passed Hank with the benefits of being juiced up. He gets to go down #2 all time, and not nearly the bad guy he would have been if he set the all time record...

...I know, that's racist thinking.

Fruit Ninja
04-18-2006, 02:16 PM
I don't think it's without consequence to the hitter's ability, but some make it sound as if all a hitter had to do was roid up and that's it. You still have to put the work in. You still have to have the skill to connect to an 80 MPH plus fast ball. Bottom line is..without specifics it's all academic, it could be solely because of roids or ability with roids, but you'd have a hard time proving it one way or another without empirical data. Bonds is 42 years old...that might have something to do with it as well. Sosa was using corked bats for who knows how long. Just because there is a cause doesn't mean it's the cause.
i dont know about that sosa using corked bats for a long time. all 100 other bats of his they checked were clean cept for that 1. He may have used them every now and again, but i dont think he consistantly used them. Guys with his power destroy bats every few games. So he would have needed more then 1 corked bat in them 100plus they checked of his.

Fruit Ninja
04-18-2006, 02:19 PM
I hope Bonds' big head explodes, but I don't think we can say he suddenly can't play now that there's testing going on. He was tested last season too and was on pace for something like 60 home runs in the limited action he saw. There didn't seem to be anything wrong with him then.

Plus, it's awfully early to say stuff like that. He's only had like 25 at bats. Mike Sweeney's stats are just as bad and I'm hoping he'll get it figured out.Bonds has always been a great hitter. As his career grew he developed better paitence, and better hand eye coordination. I am a Dodger fan and i hate bonds with a passion, but til i see full out proof of him doing steriods, then to me he didnt do them. He was tested for years he passed every test they gave him. Like he said what else do you want him to do?

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2006, 02:25 PM
Most people realize he's not the only guilty party. I've said for years that MLB shoulders a lot of blame for not taking a hard line on steroids during labor talks. But right now Barry is the poster child for the problem, and will get a lot of the heat because of it.

I'm not sure how many people outside of MLB realize he's the only guilty party. Bonds has been a poster child for steroids - not Giambi, not McGuire and not any of the other users over the years. Just Bonds.

MLB has been on the downslide since Selig has been in charge. It's that simple. He was an owner and thus, his only interests were in making more money for the other owners. Not the integrity of the game. If Kennisaw Mountain Landis were the Commissioner, steriod use would have never escalated to point where it was just a few years ago and I would think that those users would be banned, plain and simple.

MLB will never again be the "National Pastime" as long as there is not a truly objective commissioner and there is not parity among the league's teams. It may continue to succeed in markets like New York, Boston & Atlanta, but the overall national interest will continue to wane.

I think it would be absurd to put an asterisk or remove any of Bonds records when so many other players have been cheating along the way, not the mention the old argument that Babe Ruth and all the old timers never faced the top level of competition because black players weren't allowed in MLB.

It's a never ending cycle with baseball. The black cloud that envelopes the game and its records won't disappear until the owners finally decide to bring intregrity back into the game. Which will probably be never.

fan4ever
04-19-2006, 10:51 AM
I'm not sure how many people outside of MLB realize he's the only guilty party. Bonds has been a poster child for steroids - not Giambi, not McGuire and not any of the other users over the years. Just Bonds.

MLB has been on the downslide since Selig has been in charge. It's that simple. He was an owner and thus, his only interests were in making more money for the other owners. Not the integrity of the game. If Kennisaw Mountain Landis were the Commissioner, steriod use would have never escalated to point where it was just a few years ago and I would think that those users would be banned, plain and simple.

MLB will never again be the "National Pastime" as long as there is not a truly objective commissioner and there is not parity among the league's teams. It may continue to succeed in markets like New York, Boston & Atlanta, but the overall national interest will continue to wane.

I think it would be absurd to put an asterisk or remove any of Bonds records when so many other players have been cheating along the way, not the mention the old argument that Babe Ruth and all the old timers never faced the top level of competition because black players weren't allowed in MLB.

It's a never ending cycle with baseball. The black cloud that envelopes the game and its records won't disappear until the owners finally decide to bring intregrity back into the game. Which will probably be never.

Boy, I'm responding really late, but well done. I was a huge Orioles fan and anticipated passing the sport down to my son. Now I couldn't name more than 3 players on the team. Once Cal was done, so was I.

dj56dt58
04-19-2006, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't mind watching Barry Bonds walk right in front of a greyhound bus

Dunit35
04-19-2006, 10:56 PM
Barry got fined 5K for a wardrobe malfunction today.

dj56dt58
04-19-2006, 10:59 PM
Barry got fined 5K for a wardrobe malfunction today.
Did he have a surendge sticking through his pants?

Cochise
04-19-2006, 11:15 PM
His batting average is up to .214 now... he's 6 for 28.

Dunit35
04-19-2006, 11:48 PM
Did he have a surendge sticking through his pants?


I don't know. There was probably a blood stain on his ass from shooting up before the game and the color didn't match his pants.

King_Chief_Fan
04-20-2006, 06:46 AM
bump

jspchief
04-20-2006, 06:56 AM
Did he have a surendge sticking through his pants?That has to be the worst attempt at spelling syringe in the history of the english language.

King_Chief_Fan
04-20-2006, 06:59 AM
That has to be the worst attempt at spelling syringe in the history of the english language.ROFLROFL