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Mr. Laz
04-19-2006, 10:35 AM
i'll just copy the relevant positions... for the whole list follow the link

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nflTop Prospects:

Defensive ends

Top Five
1. Mario Williams, N.C. State
The skinny: He reminds scouts of Julius Peppers, only he may be better. Honest. This guy is a load, setting a school record with 14.5 sacks last season -- including four versus Maryland -- and an ACC mark with 24 tackles for losses. He has good size, range and pass-rush ability. He's the best defensive lineman in the draft.

2. Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State
The skinny: An above-average pass rusher who has a good first step. At 250 pounds, he's a little light, but he has the frame to accommodate more weight. Can play as a rush linebacker in a 3-4 or as a defensive end in a 4-3. Think DeMarcus Ware.

3. Tamba Hali, Penn State
The skinny: He didn't run well in his workout, which will knock him down some. But he's an effective pass rusher who makes up for his lack of speed with quickness and, as a converted defensive tackle, is solid versus the run.

4. Mathias Kiwanuka, Boston College
The skinny: The Eagles' MVP, he finished with a school-record 37.5 sacks. He has more athletic ability than Wimbley but also has occasional lapses. He has a good burst and is outstanding at the loop stunt. Uses his hands very well. Wasn't really himself after suffering a high-ankle sprain in the season opener.

5. Manny Lawson, N.C. State
The skinny: A former linebacker, he helped himself with a 4.48 in the 40 at the February combine. He projects as a perfect pass rusher in a 3-4, able to beat offensive linemen with his speed. But his lack of bulk could be a concern for 4-3 defensive coordinators, with opponents determined to run at him.

Player on the rise:
N.C. State's Lawson put on a show at the combine, running a 4.48 40 and finishing with the fastest shuttle time. Speed never was an issue with Lawson; size is, with scouts hopeful he can add weight to his 6-5 frame. One big plus: He blocked six punts in his college career.

Player on the decline:
Penn State's Hali. The Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year did little of consequence at the Senior Bowl, then flubbed his workout for pro scouts -- running 4.88 despite losing weight. Hali still is highly regarded, but not as highly as he was two months ago.

Sleeper
Chris Gucong, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo. Winner of the Buchanon award, given annually to the best Division I-AA defensive player. He's undersized, but he will fight to make plays -- and he made a lot of them, with 41 sacks the past two years.

Overrated
Elvis Dumervil, Louisville. He led the nation with 20 sacks last season, including six in the season opener against Kentucky, but his size kills the poor guy. "When's the last time you saw a 5-11 defensive end in the pros?" asked one player personnel director. His team doesn't have Dumervil on its draft board.

Underrated
Mark Anderson, Alabama. Don't look for him in the first round. He won't be there. But he helped his chances of making it to the first day with an extraordinary combine, running 4.68, a 42-inch vertical leap and the second fastest shuttle of all defensive linemen. Needs to mature.

Positional assessment:
It's a good group of players; not a great one -- though there's one special player at the top of the board. You can find depth here, but you better be careful.





Defensive tackles

Top Five
1. Brodrick Bunkley, Florida State
The skinny: He opened a lot of eyes by benching 225 pounds 44 times at the combine. He's strong, quick and effective -- a solid run stopper who can pressure the pocket. Had a school-record 25 tackles for losses last year. With his strength and ability he may be better suited to playing nose tackle.

2. Haloti Ngata, Oregon
The skinny: He's huge -- with some scouts wondering if his weight becomes a problem. Flashy. Very inconsistent. Can be very effective on the nose in a 3-4. A good tackler whose size was a factor on special teams. He blocked six kicks.

3. Claude Wroten, LSU
The skinny: On the field he's similar to Bunkley; in fact, one scout believed he's the most talented defensive tackle. He has great up-field explosion and is powerful. A physical player who can change directions and be disruptive. Can play on the edge. Hurt by laziness and a Jan. 4 arrest that had him kicked out of the Senior Bowl.

4. Gabe Watson, Michigan
The skinny: Massive tackle who can be dominant when he wants to be. But that's the problem: He's too inconsistent. It's tough to find players his size, but his play doesn't always match his bulk.

5. John McCargo, N.C. State
The skinny: A big, smart player who has the ability to dominate. One problem: He can be inconsistent. He missed six games last year because of a foot injury and had a so-so combine. With the right coach and the right system he could be special.

Player on the rise:
N.C. State's McCargo will go to a club looking for a 3-4 nose tackle. He doesn't appear big enough or athletic enough to play in a 4-3, but he's solid against the run and an effective pass rusher. Remember, defensive tackles are valued this time of year -- sometimes overvalued.

Player on the decline:
Michigan's Watson was benched his senior year for laziness, and, as one assistant said, "if that happens in college how do you think he responds when he's making millions of dollars?" I don't know, either, but his stock is down. Coaches worry about the guy's motor.

Sleeper
Steve Williams, NW Missouri State. A transfer from Indiana, he helped his team set a school record for fewest rushing yards allowed per game (94). He has great size but needs to work on his strength. Looked good at the Las Vegas Classic.

Overrated
Orien Harris, Miami. Scouts are concerned that he plays too high and doesn't have a good work ethic. Not a lot of production, either, and there are lingering questions about his toughness and desire. "He's just not a very good worker," said one NFC scout.

Underrated
Kyle Williams, LSU. He's always been overshadowed in college -- first by Marcus Spears, then Claude Wroten -- but he's a tough guy who never quits, and he was more productive than Wroten. Doesn't have great athletic ability but is fiercely determined. Must fit in the right situation.

Positional assessment:
Often you find a defensive tackle in the top 10 draft choices; sometimes in the top five. That probably won't happen this year, thanks to a group that is little more than adequate.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2006, 10:36 AM
Cornerbacks

Top Five
1. Jimmy Williams, Va. Tech
The skinny: A Thorpe and Nagurski finalist, he can play corner or safety. Has outstanding size for the cornerback position and played both in college. Team captain who led the ACC in interceptions in 2004. Confident. Aggressive tackler. Very flashy and demands attention.

2. Antonio Cromartie, Florida State
The skinny: One of the most talented players on the board and one of the tallest. One problem: He didn't play last year because of a torn ACL. Cromartie should have quieted skeptics with a standout workout in March. Has excellent speed and makes lots of plays. Also an outstanding return man. Could become a great free safety because of his instincts and ball skills.

3. Tye Hill, Clemson
The skinny: A Thorpe finalist and three-year starter, he tied a Clemson record with 21 passes defended in 2004. A press corner who has outstanding speed and is not afraid to hit. Was a member of Clemson's ACC championship 4X100 relay team. His size is his drawback and so are his hands. They're questionable, and that's being kind.

4. Johnathan Joseph, South Carolina
The skinny: His stock vaulted after he ran a 4.32 at the combine. A junior-college transfer, he's a playmaker who had four interceptions last season and was solid against the run. His ability to return kicks enhances his value, though he probably should've stayed in school another year. Durability a question.

5. Richard Marshall, Fresno State
The skinny: He has the size and natural ability to play in the pros. He just needs more discipline. He regularly was assigned to cover opponents' top receivers and almost always delivered. Also has good speed, running a 4.46 at the combine.

Player on the rise:
South Carolina's Joseph pushed himself into the first round with a marvelous combine. He's not a great worker, but he's a good athlete with rare speed and acceleration.

Player on the decline:
Williams bombed out at his April workout at Virginia Tech, though he ran in the 4.4s. It was the other drills that were the problem, including Williams' benching 225 pounds only 12 times. There are also questions about Williams' combustible personality.

Sleeper
John Walker, USC. He was the best athlete in the USC secondary, and he proved it at the school's recent workout. He has great size, good range and can play safety. So what's holding him back? He started late and is raw.

Overrated
Ashton Youboty, Ohio State. He seemed to have lost his confidence as a junior, yet he merits attention because of Ohio State's history of cornerbacks. There is nothing wrong with his skills. He's tough, aggressive and a good tackler. The problem is that he doesn't always play up to those skills.

Underrated
Cedric Griffin, Texas. He's perfectly suited to today's game, with great size and a physical game. He's smart and not afraid to play the run. Plus, he's versatile, with experience at a number of positions. Tended to get overlooked because of all the talent on the Longhorns.

Positional assessment:
A solid group of cornerbacks. There is size and depth here, especially if you consider Michael Huff a cornerback. There are four potential first-round candidates ... five if you include Huff. Williams was a lock to be the first corner taken until he flamed out at his workout. Now, Clemson's Hill and Florida State's Cromartie will push him.



Safeties
Top Five
1. Michael Huff, Texas
The skinny: The Thorpe Award winner and Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year, he's the top defensive back in this year's draft. Seems better suited to free safety than strong safety, though some clubs look at him as a cornerback. A ballhawk and playmaker, he has a knack for returning interceptions for touchdowns. Also adept at blocking kicks.

2. Jason Allen, Tennessee
The skinny: The Vols' team captain the past two years, he was limited to five games last year because of a dislocated hip. He led the SEC in tackles in 2004 with 123 and became the first non-linebacker to lead the Vols in that department since 1970. Can play corner or safety. Is physical, with the ability to jam receivers at the line of scrimmage.

3. Donte Whitner, Ohio State
The skinny: Doesn't have ideal size and could project as cornerback. Instinctive ballhawk with great speed. Has good strength for his size. Good range and a solid tackler. Tough and confident.

4. Darnell Bing, USC
The skinny: A big hitter who replaced Troy Polamalu. Tough, strong and physical. Does a great job supporting the run but not natural in pass coverage. Doesn't have outstanding speed. Durability an issue, too, with multiple shoulder and leg injuries.

5. Daniel Bullocks, Nebraska
The skinny: A three-year starter who is tough and productive. He's a solid tackler with good range and a knack for following the ball. Plays the ball well when it's in the air. His twin brother, Josh, was a second-round pick of New Orleans, and Daniel is right there with him. Not physical and can be beaten in coverage. Stood out on special teams at the Senior Bowl.

Player on the rise:
Tennessee's Allen helped himself with a solid workout at the combine, proving to skeptics that he is recovered from the hip injury that sidelined him the second half of last season.

Player on the decline:
Ko Simpson, South Carolina. The guy is young, and he demonstrated it in his interviews at the February combine. Simpson still could be a first round prospect, but the odds fell after his lackadaisical approach to the combine. Plus, he seems to have trouble turning and running. "He's built like a corner," said one scout, "but plays like a box safety."

Sleeper
Dewan Landry, Georgia Tech. He's someone with loads of upside. He has the perfect size; he's smart; he's a solid tackler and he can play safety or cornerback. All he needs is some coaching to correct habits that sometimes take him out of position to make a play.


Overrated
Greg Blue, Georgia. He has everything you look for: great size; good speed; excellent range; you name it. But he focuses two much on big hits instead of making sure tackles and had only two interceptions in his career. He has the athleticism to be a coverage safety, but he plays close to the line.

Underrated

Pat Watkins, Florida State. He has all the physical tools; all he's missing is experience and strength. He's a great leaper with a rare ability to go up for the ball and has great range. Also is decent against the run. Needs to mature.

Positional assessment:
It's strong at the top, if you consider Michael Huff a safety. I know of at least two clubs that don't, with scouts questioning his ability to tackle. Huff is a premier player, but the group drops off after him. There is depth here, but one special player.

htismaqe
04-19-2006, 10:43 AM
I REALLY want a safety...

Mr. Laz
04-19-2006, 10:51 AM
I REALLY want a safety...

yes, we know dear ......... now go back to playing with your legos and let the adults talk.











:D

milkman
04-19-2006, 10:53 AM
I REALLY want a safety...

I really want a defense.

A playmaker at safety would go a long way toward achieving that.

htismaqe
04-19-2006, 11:26 AM
I really want a defense.

A playmaker at safety would go a long way toward achieving that.

Exactly. We need someone in our defensive backfield that other teams fear...

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 11:34 AM
I REALLY want a safety...

NO I really want and we need a real CB that can play. Having a safety make an outstanding tackle 30 yards down the field is nice but how about we cover the WR in the first place so our safties can play checkers. Also Wesley / Knight are an acceptable pair of safeties while Surtain / Walls / Sapp is not.

Dave

htismaqe
04-19-2006, 11:42 AM
NO I really want and we need a real CB that can play. Having a safety make an outstanding tackle 30 yards down the field is nice but how about we cover the WR in the first place so our safties can play checkers. Also Wesley / Knight are an acceptable pair of safeties while Surtain / Walls / Sapp is not.

Dave

I don't even know where to start with this.

First of all, we employ a good bit of zone coverage and will do so even more with Herm and his Cover 2. The safety's responsibility is FAR more important than the CB in covering deep zones.

Any tandem that contains Greg Wesley is not acceptable.

Here's an exercise for you. Name some of the top defenses. How many of them have TWO big-time CB's. And how many of them have ZERO big-time safeties?

Oh that's right, there aren't any.

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 12:13 PM
Explain how Wesley is a bust with these stats?

Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def

2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 82 65.0 17 0 6 106 17.7 51 0 2

2005 Dallas Cowboys 16 81 69.0 12 2.5 3 52 17.3 46 1 7

When one is Wesley and the other the vaunted Roy Williams of Dallas?

85 tackles vs 81, 6 int vs 3 no sacks but come on he's not the weak link on this team.

Dave

Dunit35
04-19-2006, 12:23 PM
Sleeper
Chris Gucong, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo. Winner of the Buchanon award, given annually to the best Division I-AA defensive player. He's undersized, but he will fight to make plays -- and he made a lot of them, with 41 sacks the past two years.

I smell a 5th round pick for us.

ct
04-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Sleeper
Chris Gucong, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo. Winner of the Buchanon award, given annually to the best Division I-AA defensive player. He's undersized, but he will fight to make plays -- and he made a lot of them, with 41 sacks the past two years.

I smell a 5th round pick for us.

Well we do have the last 2 Buchanon winners as Day2 picks, might as well go for the trifecta!

htismaqe
04-19-2006, 12:53 PM
Explain how Wesley is a bust with these stats?

Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def

2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 82 65.0 17 0 6 106 17.7 51 0 2

2005 Dallas Cowboys 16 81 69.0 12 2.5 3 52 17.3 46 1 7

When one is Wesley and the other the vaunted Roy Williams of Dallas?

85 tackles vs 81, 6 int vs 3 no sacks but come on he's not the weak link on this team.

Dave

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Watch him play, he flat out sucks.

Spicy McHaggis
04-19-2006, 02:08 PM
1. Brodrick Bunkley, Florida State [/B]
The skinny: He opened a lot of eyes by benching 225 pounds 44 times at the combine. He's strong, quick and effective -- a solid run stopper who can pressure the pocket. Had a school-record 25 tackles for losses last year. With his strength and ability he may be better suited to playing nose tackle.

Does Bunkley remind anyone else a bit of a more talented/relentless Darnell Dockett when he was coming out of college? Maybe it's just the FSU thing.

buddha
04-19-2006, 03:00 PM
No, Bunkley looks like "The Thing" from the Fantastic Four. He's legit, but as shitty as our DTs are, we need CBs even more. I'd love to have an impact safety, htismage, but really good corners are tougher to find (obviously). KC is in a position where they have to draft several CBs, safeties and probably OL, WR and DL. They need the best defensive player available who doesn't play DJ's position in the first round! Address the other needs later.

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 03:01 PM
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Watch him play, he flat out sucks.

Compared to our current crop of DLmen and CBs he is a probowler. IMO we need to address both of these first before we worry about safety.

He is at least passable on one of the worst Ds ever. The other two positions ugghhh

Dave

Mecca
04-19-2006, 03:10 PM
Explain how Wesley is a bust with these stats?

Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def

2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 82 65.0 17 0 6 106 17.7 51 0 2

2005 Dallas Cowboys 16 81 69.0 12 2.5 3 52 17.3 46 1 7

When one is Wesley and the other the vaunted Roy Williams of Dallas?

85 tackles vs 81, 6 int vs 3 no sacks but come on he's not the weak link on this team.

Dave

If there was a stat on how many times a player got out of position Greg Wesley would lead that too.........He also gets cheap INT's sometimes from being in the wrong spot.

Coogs
04-19-2006, 03:14 PM
Maybe it is just me. but the more I read about this draft, the less I am impressed with the top tier talent.

htismaqe
04-19-2006, 03:19 PM
Compared to our current crop of DLmen and CBs he is a probowler. IMO we need to address both of these first before we worry about safety.

He is at least passable on one of the worst Ds ever. The other two positions ugghhh

Dave

A probowler?

1) You're blinded by how pathetic you percieve our line to be. Before Sammy Knight, we easily had the worst safeties in the league.

2) Wesley is not a probowler in any way, shape, or form. No matter how you look at it. He's a safety on a team that set, or nearly set, records for plays over 20 and over 50 yards in not one, but THREE, consecutive seasons. He's not only not passable, he's one of THE reasons this was one of the worst D's ever.

Mecca
04-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Maybe it is just me. but the more I read about this draft, the less I am impressed with the top tier talent.

I wouldn't agree with that. I think there's about 5-7 real top notch players. Reggie Bush, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams would head that list.

Coogs
04-19-2006, 03:27 PM
I wouldn't agree with that. I think there's about 5-7 real top notch players. Reggie Bush, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams would head that list.

And after that 5-7 players, everyone seems to have some sort of major question mark. While this draft may have some real good players throught the first couple of rounds, it does not seem like a draft that will yeild a lot of studs. Kind of like the year we drafted 6th and grabbed Sims.

Mecca
04-19-2006, 03:32 PM
Most drafts are like this, once you get past about 10 everyone has some form of a question mark.

Coogs
04-19-2006, 03:35 PM
Most drafts are like this, once you get past about 10 everyone has some form of a question mark.

I know. This one just seems a bit shallower than most.

milkman
04-19-2006, 06:21 PM
If there was a stat on how many times a player got out of position Greg Wesley would lead that too.........He also gets cheap INT's sometimes from being in the wrong spot.

Mark this date on the calendar.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post!

Rain Man
04-19-2006, 08:29 PM
Screw height. Give me Dumervil.

Mecca
04-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Screw height. Give me Dumervil.

As a situational/backup player, sure I'd take him. As a starter, not so much.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2006, 11:01 AM
Mark this date on the calendar.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post!

Bah... you and i have been saying this about wesley for how long?


i suppose we can let Mecca on the bandwagon ... better late than never.






:p

htismaqe
04-20-2006, 11:29 AM
Bah... you and i have been saying this about wesley for how long?


i suppose we can let Mecca on the bandwagon ... better late than never.






:p

Hold on there, sonny. I've been carrying on about our safeties since Vermeil arrived.

RedThat
04-20-2006, 11:40 AM
A probowler?

1) You're blinded by how pathetic you percieve our line to be. Before Sammy Knight, we easily had the worst safeties in the league.

2) Wesley is not a probowler in any way, shape, or form. No matter how you look at it. He's a safety on a team that set, or nearly set, records for plays over 20 and over 50 yards in not one, but THREE, consecutive seasons. He's not only not passable, he's one of THE reasons this was one of the worst D's ever.


ROFL

I hear ya man. I'm not a big fan of Wesley either. I mean he puts up the numbers, but its all the little things he can't do which best describes why the guys sucks. I can handle a change for once, especially at the safety position.
I want a guy back there that can take charge. A guy that is smart, instinctive, fearless. Somebody who can not only lay the wood, but cover a majority of the field. somebody that can play deep. Wesley is none of that imo.

I do agree. He is a big reason why our pass defense sucked all those years Vermeil was here. I not only hold him accountable entirely, but even Warfield, McCleon and Bartee. But definately Wesley contributed to poor pass defenses.

I think we are making baby steps to making our secondary better. We got rid of Warfield. We brought in Lenny Walls, Chris Johnson, and I do anticipate the Chiefs will draft a CB in the 2nd round. But first and foremost what I would like to see is us address the need of passrushing. I like to see a dominant passrusher here first, cornerback second, then take a FS in the 3rd round. Im with ya on the getting another safety, I just feel a passrush is more important.

If we can address our passrush with the 20th pick, then address our CB situation in the 2nd round. I would like to see us draft a safety in the 3rd round. Maybe a guy like Pat Watkins will still be available when we pick in the 3rd. If not, we can always surprise people and take an underrated guy like Anthony Smith outta Syracuse.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2006, 11:46 AM
Hold on there, sonny. I've been carrying on about our safeties since Vermeil arrived.

who are you again?

htismaqe
04-20-2006, 02:35 PM
ROFL

I hear ya man. I'm not a big fan of Wesley either. I mean he puts up the numbers, but its all the little things he can't do which best describes why the guys sucks. I can handle a change for once, especially at the safety position.
I want a guy back there that can take charge. A guy that is smart, instinctive, fearless. Somebody who can not only lay the wood, but cover a majority of the field. somebody that can play deep. Wesley is none of that imo.

I do agree. He is a big reason why our pass defense sucked all those years Vermeil was here. I not only hold him accountable entirely, but even Warfield, McCleon and Bartee. But definately Wesley contributed to poor pass defenses.

I think we are making baby steps to making our secondary better. We got rid of Warfield. We brought in Lenny Walls, Chris Johnson, and I do anticipate the Chiefs will draft a CB in the 2nd round. But first and foremost what I would like to see is us address the need of passrushing. I like to see a dominant passrusher here first, cornerback second, then take a FS in the 3rd round. Im with ya on the getting another safety, I just feel a passrush is more important.

If we can address our passrush with the 20th pick, then address our CB situation in the 2nd round. I would like to see us draft a safety in the 3rd round. Maybe a guy like Pat Watkins will still be available when we pick in the 3rd. If not, we can always surprise people and take an underrated guy like Anthony Smith outta Syracuse.

My thing is this:

Look at the top DE's in the league. How many of them were high 1st round picks, or even mid 1st round picks.

Now look at the top S's in the league.

If a guy like Jimmy Williams is there, we should take him. Then we could look at a guy like Tapp in the 2nd.

Rukdafaidas
04-22-2006, 06:16 AM
Wesley pisses me off. His best year was his first. He has done nothing but get worse each year. In his rookie year, he was taking peoples heads off and now he gets maybe one decent hit a year and is out of position a couple of times each game.
I now question if he has enough passion or enough brains to start in the NFL. Which is sad, because he had me excited early in his career.