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View Full Version : Herbert Walker Coup Exposed?


penchief
04-19-2006, 07:25 PM
This whole Bush II thing could be George H.W. Bush's revenge for losing the '92 election. The retrocons weren't quite expecting their premature retirement when that occurred. The New World Order did not proceed orderly. The wave of nationalism that resulted from Gulf War I was supposed to ensure re-election. They were stunned.

Hence, America endured eight years of living hell bought and paid for by the power quo and designed soley to undermine the Clinton Presidency for merely political purposes and intended to restore the retrocons to power and resume their New World Agenda.

Then.......the nation get's Gore vs. Bush Jr.

Didn't quite go as easy as they thought it would in 2000. That Clown Gore was supposed to go away quietly. They had to pull out all the stops. They even had to send a couple of GHWB's best, James Baker and Ted Olsen, to FLA cuz' some questionable stuff went down and they needed their best down there to shape opinions.

So GHWB has decided to regain power in one of his son's name. The only son he trusts to blindly do his bidding is his namesake, the egoistic but shortsighed GWB. At least he won't bail. Even when he looks foolish.

Now GHWB is playing out his fiendish hand by disrupting world progress and promoting chaos in order to re-establish his New World Order. He has ensured that his trusted comrades within the White House (Cheney & Rumsfeld) will implement his agenda while serving as Junior's lifelines.

Since GHWB served the CIA, his opinion of warrentless wire-tapping might be more cynical than those of the general population. Herbert Walker might be more cavalier in his opinion toward privacy rights because that's how one get's results.

Pre-emptive aggression, intelligence manipulation, propaganda, torture, and character assassination are knee-jerk actions to those who serve the intelligence community. Herbert Walker is only doing what comes natural.

George Herbert Walker Bush and the so-called neocons (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) are nothing more than remnants from the Reagan era. If you really want to know what Reagan's legacy was........take a good look at the present administration. Then look at the history of business ties to Mid East oil.

This would make a good novel.

DanT
04-19-2006, 07:42 PM
That's a fairly offensive post to be making on the anniversary of the Waco Killing. Bill Clinton employed plenty of neocons, killed plenty of people that didn't need to be killed and expanded the power of the Federal Government in plenty of liberty-hating ways. He was about as much of a detour on the road to consolidating power into the hands of a corrupt few as I-70 is a detour on the way from KC to St. Louis.

penchief
04-19-2006, 07:51 PM
That's a fairly offensive post to be making on the anniversary of the Waco Killing. Bill Clinton employed plenty of neocons, killed plenty of people that didn't need to be killed and expanded the power of the Federal Government in plenty of liberty-hating ways. He was about as much of a detour on the road to consolidating power into the hands of a corrupt few as I-70 is a detour on the way from KC to St. Louis.

First off, I'm not celebrating the anniversary of the "Waco Killing." So the relevance of your sentiment escapes me completely.

Secondly, how else could someone of Bush Junior's limited and unimpressive stature end up being president when it is so apparent that he is severely lacking in the fundamental skills?

By the way, what exactly is so offensive about it?

DanT
04-19-2006, 08:23 PM
First off, I'm not celebrating the anniversary of the "Waco Killing." So the relevance of your sentiment escapes me completely.

Secondly, how else could someone of Bush Junior's limited and unimpressive stature end up being president when it is so apparent that he is severely lacking in the fundamental skills?

By the way, what exactly is so offensive about it?

What fundamental skills does a President need?

What I find offensive about your post is that it suggests that President Clinton's administration was somehow different than the administrations that sandwiched his administration when it comes to the corrupt use of power. President Clinton barely was in office when his administration figured out a way to get a bunch of people killed while showing off the "might" of the Federal Government.

penchief
04-19-2006, 08:27 PM
What fundamental skills does a President need?

What I find offensive about your post is that it suggests that President Clinton's administration was somehow different than the administrations that sandwiched his administration when it comes to the corrupt use of power. President Clinton barely was in office when his administration figured out a way to get a bunch of people killed while showing off the "might" of the Federal Government.

I think you're misenterpreting my post.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2006, 08:34 PM
What fundamental skills does a President need?

.

Literacy, intelligence, the human genome (chimp comes close but doesn't account). Leadership capability, the ability to multitask, think independently, knowing when to follow and when to guide. The ability to speak to a base with an IQ within 3 standard deviations of normal.

DanT
04-19-2006, 08:43 PM
I think you're misenterpreting my post.

I probably am. Sorry about that, penchief!

banyon
04-19-2006, 08:46 PM
:cuss: Illuminati!

http://skepdic.com/graphics/goldeneye.jpg

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Not to fan the flames too much here but I do think if I fired on a bunch of ATF / DEA or other federal agents I don't think I'm getting out of this one alive. I was amazed they waited as long as they did. If it had been up to me I'd have overrun the place in 30 seconds and anyone with a gun goes down.

Dave

Adept Havelock
04-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Not to fan the flames too much here but I do think if I fired on a bunch of ATF / DEA or other federal agents I don't think I'm getting out of this one alive. I was amazed they waited as long as they did. If it had been up to me I'd have overrun the place in 30 seconds and anyone with a gun goes down.

Dave

I think I can understand, put I do believe that the presence of innocent women and children had to taken into consideration more than it was. It's not the kids faults that their parents threw them in with those whackjobs.

I have to admit, It's one of the only times I really seriously wondered if Posse Comitatus should have been suspended, if only to get our best people involved in an effort like that. Of course, that is one hell of a dangerous slippery slope.

banyon
04-19-2006, 09:04 PM
George Herbert Walker Bush and the so-called neocons (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) are nothing more than remnants from the Reagan era. If you really want to know what Reagan's legacy was........take a good look at the present administration. Then look at the history of business ties to Mid East oil.

I hate to be in the position of defending Reagan, but...

GHWB and Reagan did not see eye to eye on the neocon's super aggresive foreign policy. You can tell now, because a lot of former Reagan officials (the Bartlett guy comes to mind) believe that these people are out of their friggin' minds.

Most of the Nicaraguan/El Salvador Contra stuff was masterminded by guys like Negroponte who are much more closely aligned with GHWB than Reagan. Rumsfeld and Cheney were very frustrated when they were in Ford's cabinet, because, like Reagan, he wasn't too keen on their hare-brained schemes.

They see GWB as the opportunity that they so desparately wanted before.

I think Reagan saw himself as a great mediator/partner with other World leaders. GWB sees most of the rest of the world as adversaries that you have to deal with. This may be overdoing it a bit, but maybe Reagan had a more cooperative spirit having had to work with other actors ina cast in his previous work. Much different than GWB's comparatively spoiled upbringing in which his mistakes were repeatedly bailed out for him by others.

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 09:13 PM
I think I can understand, put I do believe that the presence of innocent women and children had to taken into consideration more than it was. It's not the kids faults that their parents threw them in with those whackjobs.

I have to admit, It's one of the only times I really seriously wondered if Posse Comitatus should have been suspended, if only to get our best people involved in an effort like that. Of course, that is one hell of a dangerous slippery slope.


I understand what you are saying I just would not wait around after 4 agents are gunned down and 16 wounded. I'd have given them some short period of time to let the woman and children go and if they didn't tough titty.

I think the military wasn't needed and Posse Comitatus wasn't needed here. I think more covert 4 AM kind of raid try to catch them off guard and surprise them if you can.

Daave

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 09:14 PM
I hate to be in the position of defending Reagan, but...

GHWB and Reagan did not see eye to eye on the neocon's super aggresive foreign policy. You can tell now, because a lot of former Reagan officials (the Bartlett guy comes to mind) believe that these people are out of their friggin' minds.

Most of the Nicaraguan/El Salvador Contra stuff was masterminded by guys like Negroponte who are much more closely aligned with GHWB than Reagan. Rumsfeld and Cheney were very frustrated when they were in Ford's cabinet, because, like Reagan, he wasn't too keen on their hare-brained schemes.

They see GWB as the opportunity that they so desparately wanted before.

I think Reagan saw himself as a great mediator/partner with other World leaders. GWB sees most of the rest of the world as adversaries that you have to deal with. This may be overdoing it a bit, but maybe Reagan had a more cooperative spirit having had to work with other actors ina cast in his previous work. Much different than GWB's comparatively spoiled upbringing in which his mistakes were repeatedly bailed out for him by others.


I think I saw Baker saying he really had a problem with the agenda some of them had at the time.

Dave

stevieray
04-19-2006, 09:23 PM
I understand what you are saying I just would not wait around after 4 agents are gunned down and 16 wounded. I'd have given them some short period of time to let the woman and children go and if they didn't tough titty.



Daave
ATF committed cold blooded murder. There is a show on the doc channel you need to see.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2006, 09:26 PM
ATF committed cold blooded murder. There is a show on the doc channel you need to see.

Umm...no. Those people in that building were religious fundamentalists, and if they identified themselves with Islam instead of a perverted stepchild of Christianity you would have praised their deaths.

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 09:36 PM
ATF committed cold blooded murder. There is a show on the doc channel you need to see.


It would have been quicker and bloodier with me in charge. Probably more survivors though as 200 agents with night vision and guns could have knocked out the gun toters quickly and effectively. Maybe only 30-50 dead with my method. Saved the taxpayers a bunch of money too since I'm a conservative on that issue.

Dave

Dave Lane
04-19-2006, 09:42 PM
ATF committed cold blooded murder. There is a show on the doc channel you need to see.


Heres a balanced report on the entire incident.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/koresh/1.html

You might even agree with them on parts of it.

All I know is If I did this I'm toast within 24 hours.

Dave

stevieray
04-19-2006, 09:59 PM
Heres a balanced report on the entire incident.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/koresh/1.html

You might even agree with them on parts of it.

All I know is If I did this I'm toast within 24 hours.

Dave

I'll agree with the guy that showed the ATF firing first with the aid of the stop photos from a camera he designed for NASA.

This doc is very telling.

Cochise
04-19-2006, 10:36 PM
Only in DC is 'Reagan legacy' a profanity.

Radar Chief
04-20-2006, 06:57 AM
That's a fairly offensive post to be making on the anniversary of the Waco Killing. Bill Clinton employed plenty of neocons, killed plenty of people that didn't need to be killed and expanded the power of the Federal Government in plenty of liberty-hating ways. He was about as much of a detour on the road to consolidating power into the hands of a corrupt few as I-70 is a detour on the way from KC to St. Louis.

You don’t understand Dan, liberals= o:-) . Everyone else is teh :evil: in Penchiefs lexicon. ;)

Radar Chief
04-20-2006, 07:02 AM
George Herbert Walker Bush and the so-called neocons (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) are nothing more than remnants from the Reagan era. If you really want to know what Reagan's legacy was........take a good look at the present administration. Then look at the history of business ties to Mid East oil.

This would make a good novel.

Yea, never mind that “business ties to mid-east oil” predate Reagan by, like, 40 freak’n years. :rolleyes:
Though I will admit that fantasy like this does seem to make for good book sales. :thumb:

penchief
04-20-2006, 11:52 AM
Yea, never mind that “business ties to mid-east oil” predate Reagan by, like, 40 freak’n years. :rolleyes:
Though I will admit that fantasy like this does seem to make for good book sales. :thumb:

Oh, it was definitely fantasy but one has to wonder just who really is running the show and how a guy like GW gets to be president.

As far as the ties to MidEast oil and business goes, I thought it was clear that I was referring GHWB and not Reagan. I only meant to refer to Reagan's legacy when considering that most of the ideolgouges who created this mess originated from his and GHWB's circle.

I didn't think anyone would really believe I was advocating this fantasy as truth. I hope nobody was offended too badly.

stevieray
04-20-2006, 02:29 PM
Umm...no. Those people in that building were religious fundamentalists, and if they identified themselves with Islam instead of a perverted stepchild of Christianity you would have praised their deaths.

get a clue.

Adept Havelock
04-20-2006, 04:36 PM
Umm...no. Those people in that building were religious fundamentalists, and if they identified themselves with Islam instead of a perverted stepchild of Christianity you would have praised their deaths.

I don't know if he specifically would have or not. I do know there are certainly some out there that would, if they had been Muslim extremists instead of Christian extremists. IME, It's human nature to identify with those that appear to share your beliefs, even if it's a radical perversion of them.

Those folks (Branch Davidians) really reminded me of the "Christian Identity" racists, and the "Covenant, Arm, and Sword of the Lord" loons from down around Southern Missouri, with a big dose of Jim Jones thrown in.

Radar Chief
04-21-2006, 06:36 AM
Oh, it was definitely fantasy but one has to wonder just who really is running the show and how a guy like GW gets to be president.

As far as the ties to MidEast oil and business goes, I thought it was clear that I was referring GHWB and not Reagan. I only meant to refer to Reagan's legacy when considering that most of the ideolgouges who created this mess originated from his and GHWB's circle.

I didn't think anyone would really believe I was advocating this fantasy as truth. I hope nobody was offended too badly.

Thanks for the explanation, that helps.
And yes, considering what you’ve posted in the past, I actually did think that you were serious. Sorry, my bad.

Radar Chief
04-21-2006, 06:46 AM
Umm...no. Those people in that building were religious fundamentalists, and if they identified themselves with Islam instead of a perverted stepchild of Christianity you would have praised their deaths.

I don't know if he specifically would have or not. I do know there are certainly some out there that would, if they had been Muslim extremists instead of Christian extremists. IME, It's human nature to identify with those that appear to share your beliefs, even if it's a radical perversion of them.

Those folks (Branch Davidians) really reminded me of the "Christian Identity" racists, and the "Covenant, Arm, and Sword of the Lord" loons from down around Southern Missouri, with a big dose of Jim Jones thrown in.

So, just out’a curiosity, what did those people supposedly do to deserve get’n burn to death and how would that not be “cold blooded murder”? :shrug:

penchief
04-21-2006, 06:08 PM
considering what you’ve posted in the past, I actually did think that you were serious. Sorry, my bad.

Heh.......

Seriously, though, have I ever posted anything outrageous before?

I mean, other than when I wasn't drunk.