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chasedude
04-21-2006, 01:49 PM
Is anyone else besides me getting fed up with these outrageous gas prices? I'm so sick of the big oil companys controlling the market. I see that Lee Raymond the retiring CEO of Exxon is getting a bonus of over 400 Million in pensions, stock options and what ever else is thrown in there. Why am I paying nearly $3 a gallon to support this? I wanted to take a road trip this year with friends, I don't think this will happen now. The Rich get Richer, as the poor get poorer friends.

SPchief
04-21-2006, 01:52 PM
uh, there are a few threads already discussing this topic.

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 01:52 PM
No, this is perfectly OK. Donger will be along to explain it to you.

Fish
04-21-2006, 01:54 PM
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8840/startmanythreads4zl.jpg

Dartgod
04-21-2006, 01:54 PM
It's my fault. I drive a gas hog truck haulin' a big-ass camper.

Sorry 'bout that...

Cochise
04-21-2006, 01:56 PM
Does this mean I need to stop hauling my yacht back and forth to work with me?

Brock
04-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Go down. 4th ring. Burn.

4th and Long
04-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Oil hit a record of $75 a barrel today. Yay.

greg63
04-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Outragous Gas Prices!!!

Gas prices are outragous? Why wasn't I told!!!!

Donger
04-21-2006, 01:59 PM
Is anyone else besides me getting fed up with these outrageous gas prices? I'm so sick of the big oil companys controlling the market. I see that Lee Raymond the retiring CEO of Exxon is getting a bonus of over 400 Million in pensions, stock options and what ever else is thrown in there. Why am I paying nearly $3 a gallon to support this? I wanted to take a road trip this year with friends, I don't think this will happen now. The Rich get Richer, as the poor get poorer friends.

The oil companies do not set the price of crude oil.

Crude oil makes up 45% of the price of gasoline.

You do the math.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:00 PM
No, this is perfectly OK. Donger will be along to explain it to you.

I don't think it's "okay." I don't like it any more than you do.

I do understand why the prices are so high, however.

4th and Long
04-21-2006, 02:02 PM
It's all about refineries, or lack there of.

ct
04-21-2006, 02:04 PM
so what if this is a repost, the more bitching about it, maybe we'll all do something about it. how about a 1 month boycott from buying gas? can anyone out there survive that? I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to try...

Lzen
04-21-2006, 02:05 PM
The oil companies do not set the price of crude oil.

Crude oil makes up 45% of the price of gasoline.

You do the math.

Who sets the price of crude? OPEC?

Da towwhullheads?

Lzen
04-21-2006, 02:05 PM
so what if this is a repost, the more bitching about it, maybe we'll all do something about it. how about a 1 month boycott from buying gas? can anyone out there survive that? I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to try...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... ROFL ROFL ROFL

Kclee
04-21-2006, 02:05 PM
Buy less eggs.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:06 PM
It's all about refineries, or lack there of.

The present spike is based on a few things:

1. Worldwide crude demand continues to be high. High demand = high prices.

2. Fear about oil producing countries (Iran and others) is giving the market jitters, thereby raising prices in addition to the above.

3. Refineries are performing required maintenance to get ready for summer formulations and also removing MTBE. Therefore, their capacity is down from near 100% while demand is increasing.

Add that all up, and you have the answer.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:08 PM
so what if this is a repost, the more bitching about it, maybe we'll all do something about it. how about a 1 month boycott from buying gas? can anyone out there survive that? I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to try...

Decreasing demand is the only short-term answer. It went down significantly after Katrina last year. Something like 3.5%

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:08 PM
Who sets the price of crude? OPEC?

Da towwhullheads?

Oil is traded on the exchanges. It's a commodity just like any other.

Coach
04-21-2006, 02:09 PM
The present spike is based on a few things:

1. Worldwide crude demand continues to be high. High demand = high prices.

2. Fear about oil producing countries (Iran and others) is giving the market jitters, thereby raising prices in addition to the above.

3. Refineries are performing required maintenance to get ready for summer formulations and also removing MTBE. Therefore, their capacity is down from near 100% while demand is increasing.

Add that all up, and you have the answer.

Sounds reasonable. What other options are there for those people to do that they don't necessarly have to raise the oil prices high? Build more refineries? Find other options to use things that isn't crude oil?

I'm not necessarly looking for short-term, but also long-term as well.

I don't think I could stomach of paying 4-5 dollars a gallon.

morphius
04-21-2006, 02:12 PM
The present spike is based on a few things:

1. Worldwide crude demand continues to be high. High demand = high prices.

2. Fear about oil producing countries (Iran and others) is giving the market jitters, thereby raising prices in addition to the above.

3. Refineries are performing required maintenance to get ready for summer formulations and also removing MTBE. Therefore, their capacity is down from near 100% while demand is increasing.

Add that all up, and you have the answer.
I swear to God the people that set the market on oil prices are the most jittery bunch of pansies the world has ever known.

Brock
04-21-2006, 02:15 PM
so what if this is a repost, the more bitching about it, maybe we'll all do something about it. how about a 1 month boycott from buying gas? can anyone out there survive that? I'm not so sure, but I'm willing to try...

Enjoy your bicycle.

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 02:16 PM
The present spike is based on a few things:

1. Worldwide crude demand continues to be high. High demand = high prices.

2. Fear about oil producing countries (Iran and others) is giving the market jitters, thereby raising prices in addition to the above.

3. Refineries are performing required maintenance to get ready for summer formulations and also removing MTBE. Therefore, their capacity is down from near 100% while demand is increasing.

Add that all up, and you have the answer.
Drinking water is in extremely high demand but it isn't expensive. It would be if only a few people controlled the supply.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:17 PM
Sounds reasonable. What other options are there for those people to do that they don't necessarly have to raise the oil prices high? Build more refineries? Find other options to use things that isn't crude oil?

I'm not necessarly looking for short-term, but also long-term as well.

I don't think I could stomach of paying 4-5 dollars a gallon.


Nothing. Opec has said that they can no longer increase supply in any meaningful way.
Used to be we could. There was a bit of slack so things like a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico didn't cause price spikes. Those days are past due to how thirsty the world is for oil. We're running pedal to the metal as it is, there is no increase to be had.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Drinking water is in extremely high demand but it isn't expensive. It would be if only a few people controlled the supply.

or if there was enough water for 100 people and 100 people were buying.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Sounds reasonable. What other options are there for those people to do that they don't necessarly have to raise the oil prices high? Build more refineries? Find other options to use things that isn't crude oil?

I'm not necessarly looking for short-term, but also long-term as well.

I don't think I could stomach of paying 4-5 dollars a gallon.

Oil is traded globally and while we are still the greatest gulper, others are catching up. So, unless worldwide demand drops, crude prices will continue to be high. They'll fluctuate, however.

The only short-term (meaning next YEARS, not months) is to reduce demand. Building refineries is needed, but they would take years to construct AFTER being approved, and that would take years alone.

So, let's reduce demand.

1. Don't drive unless you need to.
2. Make sure your car is as efficient as possible (tires pressures, filters, etc).
3. Drive economically. No full throttle, hard braking etc.
4. Carpool.
5. Use public transportation.
6. Get a motorcycle.
7. Turn off your f*cking daylight headlights.
8. Buy a hybrid if you want to conserve, but the ROI is long.

That's just of the top of my head. There are probably sites that list everything we can do.

And, I'm all for drilling for crude on our own f*cking soil.

And, I'm all for investing in VIABLE alternate energy solutions.

caoecod
04-21-2006, 02:19 PM
$4 in parts of Southern California.. $3+ up here in the Boston area.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060420/capt.la11304202125.oil_prices_la113.jpg?x=290&y=345&sig=j_kqkQARfUAtlTg83AtrtA--

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 02:20 PM
Oil is traded globally and while we are still the greatest gulper, others are catching up. So, unless worldwide demand drops, crude prices will continue to be high. They'll fluctuate, however.

The only short-term (meaning next YEARS, not months) is to reduce demand. Building refineries is needed, but they would take years to construct AFTER being approved, and that would take years alone.

So, let's reduce demand.

1. Don't drive unless you need to.
2. Make sure your car is as efficient as possible (tires pressures, filters, etc).
3. Drive economically. No full throttle, hard braking etc.
4. Carpool.
5. Use public transportation.
6. Get a motorcycle.
7. Turn off your f*cking daylight headlights.
8. Buy a hybrid if you want to conserve, but the ROI is long.

That's just of the top of my head. There are probably sites that list everything we can do.

And, I'm all for drilling for crude on our own f*cking soil.

And, I'm all for investing in VIABLE alternate energy solutions.
Your headlights run off the alternator. How are they using any fuel?

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:20 PM
Drinking water is in extremely high demand but it isn't expensive. It would be if only a few people controlled the supply.

Or if it were traded as a commodity and was supplied overseas.

I spoke with a buddy in the industry this week and he was all for removing it from the exchanges. I don't know enough about it to suggest how that would work.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:22 PM
Building refineries is needed, but they would take years to construct AFTER being approved, and that would take years alone.


We wont build refinerys because there is no way they will money back. By they time they're ready to go online there may not be enough supply to justify additional refinerys, and even if there were we probably would end up shutting some down before the new ones were ever paid off which would be a waste.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:23 PM
Your headlights run off the alternator. How are they using any fuel?

Errr, what spins the alternator? Same goes for A/C.

Your engine drives it all. The more load you put on your engine, the harder it has to work.

Here's a site for everyone: http://www.autoanything.com/savegas/

Kill your daytime lights

Anything that causes extra strain on your system will affect gas mileage. This includes using lights during the daytime. If your vehicle gives you the option to turn your daytime running lights off (many vehicles turn them on automatically), try driving without them. Headlights, too, but only if conditions permit.

Coach
04-21-2006, 02:25 PM
Too bad there aren't any companies that would have an idea of a hybrid/solar/gasoline powered type of a vehicle.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:25 PM
We wont build refinerys because there is no way they will money back. By they time they're ready to go online there may not be enough supply to justify additional refinerys, and even if there were we probably would end up shutting some down before the new ones were ever paid off which would be a waste.

That's one of the reasons that the oil companies haven't built any new ones since the 1970s. The ROI is ridiculous.

penchief
04-21-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't think it's "okay." I don't like it any more than you do.

I do understand why the prices are so high, however.

Then you understand the correlation between record prices and record profits?

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Some might like to read this:

While some stations have already posted prices for regular gasoline that exceed $3 per gallon and it is certainly possible that average retail prices across the country could reach that level sometime this year, EIA is not forecasting prices that high, on average, over a whole month. Our forecast assumes that there are no major problems in U.S. refineries, pipelines, or any part of the distribution chain. It also assumes that no additional oil production disruptions occur overseas.

Why doesnít EIA see $3 per gallon as a fait accompli? To understand why, a look at the main factors behind high prices may be helpful. First, a larger-than-normal amount of refinery capacity is currently offline, reducing the production of gasoline. Three refineries on the Gulf Coast shut down by last fallís hurricanes are only now reportedly beginning to return to operation, or soon will be. Additionally, some refineries that were not damaged by the hurricanes deferred planned fall maintenance until this spring, so as to maximize production immediately following the hurricanes. However, this means that we now have refineries undergoing previously scheduled spring maintenance, plus those that had deferred maintenance from last fall. Compared to weekly data last year for the similar period (the four weeks ending April 15, 2005), gasoline production for the most recent four-week period is down 457,000 barrels per day, while gasoline demand is up slightly compared to last year. As a result, finished gasoline inventories have been pulled down sharply, dropping more than 20 million barrels over the past four weeks, despite large volumes of imports. However, as these refineries return to full operation, gasoline production should increase, thus adding much-needed supply into the system.

Second, other factors influencing gasoline prices exhibit more uncertainty over the near-term future. Crude oil prices have risen to above $71 per barrel for West Texas Intermediate, which is higher than EIA had expected. Some of this price rise stems from an increase in the demand for inventory as refiners and others buy more crude oil now to put into inventories as a physical hedge against the possibility of supply disruptions later this year. While geopolitical concerns are likely to remain for the time being, at some point, inventories may be built sufficiently to provide enough of a hedge for some refiners, which could help halt the rise in crude oil prices. At the same time, this may occur just as refiners need more crude oil to supply the refineries returning from maintenance, so it remains highly uncertain which direction crude oil prices will head over the next several weeks, thus making it difficult to determine the impact crude oil prices might have on gasoline prices.

Third, the other major factor influencing gasoline prices is the transition from MTBE reformulated gasoline (RFG) to ethanol RFG in some parts of the country, most notably much of the East Coast and major cities in Texas. How smoothly this transition occurs will have a significant impact on the near-term path of gasoline prices. Already there are signs of some problems getting sufficient supplies in a timely fashion in parts of Virginia, mostly the Tidewater and Virginia Beach areas, with some problems also experienced around Richmond. However, unless problems related to this transition become more widespread, it may not have much impact on average monthly retail gasoline prices for the country as a whole. This transition was discussed in the January 5, 2006 issue of This Week in Petroleum and in a subsequent EIA report Eliminating MTBE in Gasoline in 2006 issued in February 2006.

In summary, while some factors may be difficult to forecast, significant increases in gasoline production as refineries undergoing maintenance return to full operation sometime over the next several weeks should stem the rise in gasoline prices and may, actually, cause them to decline somewhat. While demand will generally increase as we move closer to summer, increased domestic production, in addition to the expected continuation of significant volumes of gasoline imports, should be enough to cause prices to begin to fall again, albeit not nearly as much as they have increased. Whether this occurs later this month or next, EIA does expect prices to begin to come down. While the average U.S. price of regular gasoline could reach $3 per gallon sometime this year, that outcome is by no means a foregone conclusion given the current market situation.

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Errr, what spins the alternator? Same goes for A/C.

Your engine drives it all. The more load you put on your engine, the harder it has to work.

Here's a site for everyone: http://www.autoanything.com/savegas/

Kill your daytime lights

Anything that causes extra strain on your system will affect gas mileage. This includes using lights during the daytime. If your vehicle gives you the option to turn your daytime running lights off (many vehicles turn them on automatically), try driving without them. Headlights, too, but only if conditions permit.
The alternator has to spin anyway or your car would quit. The a/c puts a lot of drag on the engine. The alt. does not.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Then you understand the correlation between record prices and record profits?

I understand it. When you have set margins, and the price for your goods go up, you make more money per unit. Even if your margins are the same as they always were. That's actually a scapegoat, people don't understand why that works they just see the bigger dollar value and are looking for someone to blame.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:39 PM
Then you understand the correlation between record prices and record profits?

Yes. While the price of crude (their primary source material) is high, their production costs have remained the same = higher profit.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:40 PM
The alternator has to spin anyway or your car would quit. The a/c puts a lot of drag on the engine. The alt. does not.

every watt of energy the lights consume, comes directly from your gasoline plus some overhead for loss.
period.
Newton is going to take your ass to jail if you keep this up Skip.

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 02:41 PM
every watt of energy the lights consume, comes directly from your gasoline plus some overhead for loss.
period.
Newton is going to take your ass to jail if you keep this up Skip.
It's energy that is wasted if it isn't used. F*ck Newton.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:44 PM
The alternator has to spin anyway or your car would quit. The a/c puts a lot of drag on the engine. The alt. does not.

Not until the battery died by not being charged by the alternator. I once drove a VW Kharman Gia for 100 miles before the battery died with no alternator.

Daytime headlights run off the battery. The battery is charged by the alternator. The alternator is powered by the engine. Therefore, anything that runs off the battery puts a load on the engine.

Granted, daytime lights are nothing compared to the load A/C puts on, but it's still something. I remember reading how much we'd save without them on. I'll try to find it.

Iowanian
04-21-2006, 02:47 PM
Iran reminds me alot of an asshole from HS...talking alot of shit every day, talking loud and trying to take lunch money...while running his mouth at the real tough kid.....

Run your mouth long enough....make enough threats, and someday....BLAM!BLAMBLAMBLAM

Hugo Chavez..is a pickle muncher too.

Screw it...Invade Venezuela and keep it as a territory.


Screw them all......
Biodeisel....Ethynol....biomass electricity....create it from wind, tiny nuclear reactors...whatever.

I'm ready to tell the oil producing world to get effed.

Someday....when Oil is gone, and we're running on something else....and they have nothing. Let those c@ckholsters starve and die of sandflea bites.

It'd be alright with me if we even go as far as to Airdrop billions of leaflets with PICTURES of food, suntan lotion and ice.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:47 PM
It's energy that is wasted if it isn't used. F*ck Newton.

You could be right. I wonder where the energy goes though.

caoecod
04-21-2006, 02:48 PM
Gas Station in NYC..
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060421/capt.sge.kye97.210406200403.photo00.photo.default-384x273.jpg?x=380&y=270&sig=1nzakCZYVj99dg7P_rsOHA--

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:50 PM
By the way, there is no way that Crude has gone up as mucha as it has and is still ~47% of the cost of a gallon of gas. It has to be well into the 70s by now.

Iowanian
04-21-2006, 02:50 PM
Instead of batteries charged by Alternators...maybe a conversion generator that has turbines powered by a belt to an axle or something....

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:51 PM
It's energy that is wasted if it isn't used. F*ck Newton.

It is wasted at all. The more demand you put on your engine, the less efficient it gets with regards to fuel consumption. The opposite it true as well, of course.

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:52 PM
By the way, there is no way that Crude has gone up as mucha as it has and is still ~47% of the cost of a gallon of gas. It has to be well into the 70s by now.

Probably closer to 60-65%

Donger
04-21-2006, 02:54 PM
Here's a fun graphic. I don't know what the present situtation is:

.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:55 PM
Here's a fun graphic. I don't know what the present situtation is:

.


dots have always been fun.

Skip Towne
04-21-2006, 02:55 PM
You could be right. I wonder where the energy goes though.
It probably goes the same place the electricity in the wires in your walls goes when it isn't being used. The Alternator produces about 14 volts and your battery is around 12 volts. As juice flows from the battery the voltage regulator allows that juice to be replaced then shuts down again. Yes, Donger, your car will run off the alternator forever. It will also run off the battery until it runs out of juice. Ask JSP Chie about that.

chasedude
04-21-2006, 02:57 PM
uh, there are a few threads already discussing this topic.

Well excuse me Thread Police. But thank you for your input. You know opinion's are like assholes, everyone has one and they usually stink.

jidar
04-21-2006, 02:59 PM
Here's a fun graphic. I don't know what the present situtation is:

.

As I recall, a barrel of oil around then was in the 30s? If we had that dollar figure for each of those graphs we could figure out what the percentages are for todays gas.

oldandslow
04-21-2006, 03:02 PM
Here is how it should break down....

1 barrel of crude is 42 gallons of oil

Divide 42 into say 70 dollars per barrel and you get 1.66 or thereabouts.

Unfortunately, however...

of that 42 gal (if light sweet crude) you will get somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 gal of gasoline...

the rest is used for plastics, heating oil, etc.

you must add 46 cents to each gal (avg) for state and federal taxes...

another 80 cents goes to refining, profit, marketing, transporting, etc

Anyway the cost at 70 dollars per barrel of a gallon of gas is about 3.30

At 80 it is in the 3.70/3.80 range.

The reason we are not there yet is because 70 dollar per barrel oil is on June contracts. The market has not caught up yet.

I suspect it will.

Dartgod
04-21-2006, 03:04 PM
It probably goes the same place the electricity in the wires in your walls goes when it isn't being used. The Alternator produces about 14 volts and your battery is around 12 volts. As juice flows from the battery the voltage regulator allows that juice to be replaced then shuts down again. Yes, Donger, your car will run off the alternator forever. It will also run off the battery until it runs out of juice. Ask JSP Chie about that.
I'm pretty sure that an increase in load on the alternator (more amps needed) requires more energy to spin it (increased engine load). I'm trying to find verification on it.

Iowanian
04-21-2006, 03:07 PM
There are Amish in my area....I'm thinking about an old buggie and a u-neck nag investment...just to prove a point.

Electric fence around the yard....ta-daaaaa.

Dartgod
04-21-2006, 03:09 PM
I know I'm right now, I just can't find the answer and I'm heading home.

Think about this though. Have you ever had an alternator load tested at an auto parts store? If you have, you know what I'm talking about.

Simplex3
04-21-2006, 03:10 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=56406&stc=1

Donger
04-21-2006, 03:12 PM
It probably goes the same place the electricity in the wires in your walls goes when it isn't being used. The Alternator produces about 14 volts and your battery is around 12 volts. As juice flows from the battery the voltage regulator allows that juice to be replaced then shuts down again. Yes, Donger, your car will run off the alternator forever. It will also run off the battery until it runs out of juice. Ask JSP Chie about that.

I know it will.

You asked why turning off your DRL would save fuel because they run off the alternator. I've explained it to you.

Do you understand now?

chasedude
04-21-2006, 03:25 PM
anything to save energy works. If we all made a point to turn our lights off in daylight hours and keep our tires at the right pressure and stop our jack rabbit pole position starts we might drop the demand a bit. But this is america and we have the freedom of choice.

Donger
04-21-2006, 03:26 PM
anything to save energy works. If we all made a point to turn our lights off in daylight hours and keep our tires at the right pressure and stop our jack rabbit pole position starts we might drop the demand a bit. But this is america and we have the freedom of choice.

And there it is.

Yes. And you have the freedom to do all those things. If you choose not to, you also have the freedom to pay $3.00 a gallon.

ct
04-21-2006, 03:31 PM
And there it is.

Yes. And you have the freedom to do all those things. If you choose not to, you also have the freedom to pay $3.00 a gallon.

Not exactly. We all get to pay $3/4 a gallon, cause 1 solo dork on a bike like me don't make any fuggin impact!

Donger
04-21-2006, 03:51 PM
Not exactly. We all get to pay $3/4 a gallon, cause 1 solo dork on a bike like me don't make any fuggin impact!

Just making the point that many of the people the most outraged about the price of gasoline are the ones responsible for the greatest demand. I was filling up my fuel-sipping vehicle the other day and a woman was filling up her Excursion. She was livid and basically screaming to no one in particular about how she was "getting f*cked."

I pointed at her and laughed.

chiefs4me
04-21-2006, 05:04 PM
I haven't see it for 3 dollars anywhere yet, I pay 2.77 for a gallon of diesel..