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Wile_E_Coyote
04-23-2006, 04:44 AM
The search for intensity

Edwards demands passion, toughness

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/14407136.htm

Trying to define the quintessential player favored by new Chiefs coach Herm Edwards is no easy task.

His draft record from five seasons as head coach of the New York Jets reveals little besides that Edwards, a former NFL cornerback, loves defensive backs and selects them by the bushel, more than any other position group.

The Chiefs are about to learn much more. Next weekend brings the first draft with Edwards as their head coach, and the annual collegiate talent grab figures to be a different ride for the Chiefs from when Dick Vermeil was their coach.

Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson perhaps has the best insight into Edwards and his thoughts. Edwards over the years has worked for Peterson as a player, scout, assistant coach and now head coach.

“He likes competitive guys, guys that aren’t necessarily the most gifted athlete or the fastest or the smartest or the quickest or whatever,” Peterson said. “But he has to play the game at an intense level and play it with a lot of intelligence. That’s what kind of guy Herm was. He never ran very fast, but the minute the receiver left the line of scrimmage, Herm as the cornerback could read the route within three steps and was always where he was supposed to be and anticipated well.

“He wants guys that are going to be committed to extra video study and understand how and what you need to do to be a pro in the National Football League and the sacrifices you have to make.”

The Chiefs’ draft preparations have been led this year for the first time by Bill Kuharich, who assumed the responsibility from Lynn Stiles. Kuharich, as a vice president and then general manager of the Saints from 1994 through 1999, presided over some mostly nondescript drafts.
His infamous draft with the Saints was his last. He swapped every other Saints draft pick to Washington for the one that allowed them to choose running back Ricky Williams.

The Saints finished 3-13 that season, and Kuharich was fired afterward.
Despite that, Kuharich is known as a bright talent evaluator and has interviewed for several general manager positions around the league since joining the Chiefs in 2000. Until this year, Kuharich served as their lead pro scout.

“It’s not like it’s something I haven’t done before,” Kuharich said. “It’s like getting back on a bike. It’s been very easy.”

Peterson remains in charge of the draft, but clearly the head coaches, from Marty Schottenheimer to Gunther Cunningham to Vermeil, had his ear. Under Schottenheimer, the Chiefs selected big, tough and physical picks who could play his preferred style.

Cunningham wanted bigger receivers and defensive backs, and got them. Vermeil wanted defenders and, with the notable exception of the 2003 selection of running back Larry Johnson, got them.

Now the Chiefs will start drafting players in the Edwards mold.

“Herm believes in mental and physical toughness,” said Mike Mayock, the NFL Network’s draft analyst. “Being a former defensive back, he drafted a lot of defensive backs in New York, and he did very well with the defensive backs he drafted in New York. I think that’s a trend you’re going to see continue in Kansas City.

“They’ve got to start playing some defense out there if they’re going to get to the championship game. They need an edge pass rusher, they need a couple of defensive backs and they need to continue to beef up that linebacker corps.”

The Chiefs have a need at cornerback. They have a hole in their starting lineup after releasing longtime starter Eric Warfield and almost certainly will draft at least one.

Drafting defensive backs is one of Edwards’ passions. The Jets selected nine defensive backs in five years with Edwards and at least one every year.

None was selected in the first round and only two as high as the second, but that didn’t prevent Edwards from playing them. Five started at least one game for the Jets by their second seasons. Three were regular starters as rookies.

“If you know what you’re looking for, especially what it takes for a player to play in your system, that’s the key,” Edwards said. “I don’t think you always have to get a corner in the first round. You can find them. I started in Philadelphia, and I was a no-round. I was an (undrafted) free agent.

“When you start drafting guys, you have to make sure why you’re drafting them. I never lose sight of that. If you can put them in a system where they can be successful, that’s our responsibility as coaches.”

Given Edwards’ draft record, the Chiefs with their first pick could select a wide receiver such as Ohio State’s Santonio Holmes or a pass rusher like North Carolina State’s Manny Lawson and work on their deficiency at cornerback later in the draft.

The type of cornerback Edwards likes may be available in the second round or beyond.

“When I look at guys at that position, I want to see if they’re mentally tough,” Edwards said. “That’s what it takes for these guys to play in this league. It’s not always their 40 time. It helps you, but the guys that are mentally tough, the guys that have what I call selective memory, that if something bad happens it’s over and you go on to the next play, it takes those kind of guys to play in this league.

“I always put on a film of when the guy got beat. I want to see how he plays after he got beat. Does he become a soft guy? Does he continue to challenge? Does he continue to compete? That’s going to happen to him (in the NFL). He’s going to get beat more than once. I want to see how he reacts to that. That’s how you find out about a guy and if he can play in this league.”

Edwards is talking as a coach and former cornerback. Edwards also tends to think at times like a scout.

He was a scout for the Chiefs for three seasons in the 1990s, making him the first of Peterson’s Chiefs coaches to draw a regular paycheck that way. Cunningham once did so briefly years ago.

Edwards doesn’t necessarily think of a draft pick as a finished product.
“A coach always wants this player to be able to do this, that guy to be able to do that,” Edwards said. “I’m a firm believer that (coaches are given) some clay and it’s pretty good clay. As a coach, you’ve got to develop it. It’s not going to be developed. If it was already developed, you wouldn’t need coaches. I understand that. I’ve been through the process. Sometimes that’s why (assistant) coaches get a little mad at me when the draft comes. They’ll say, ‘You’re on the scouts’ side.’ I’m not on the scouts’ side. I just know both sides of it.

“I know when I was a scout and I was driving all over the countryside, seven hours to go see some guy and write a report, it was on me and I had to bring the information back. My eyes might see a little bit different than a coach, but at the end of the day, I felt this guy had enough talent that if we used it properly, he could help us win.”

<HR class=infobox-hr-separator color=#cccccc SIZE=1>
More on the NFL draft, including first-round
predictions, C-13 *

*looks like a supplement to the sports section not available online

more & more looks like a mock shouldn't have a CB at #20

CoMoChief
04-23-2006, 04:56 AM
I'll be pretty pissed off if we draft Manny Lawson in the first round. Hes another example of how he exploited the fact that he had a great Dline to help him out. I dont think we need to go the Gary Stills route again on the Dline. He has a LB body, tackles would punish him. People wanna talk about Dwight Freeney, well Freeney is bigger than Lawson (1), and (2), Freeney sucks ass against the run.

milkman
04-23-2006, 06:08 AM
If anyone was the beneficiary of great D-Line play, it would be McCargo.

I would agree that his size would seem to be better suited to playing LB.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 06:34 AM
I'd hope we wouldn't draft Lawson a 3-4 backer. Maybe if we played the 3-4, but we don't. So what would be the point of selecting him?

Coogs
04-23-2006, 06:47 AM
I'd hope we wouldn't draft Lawson a 3-4 backer. Maybe if we played the 3-4, but we don't. So what would be the point of selecting him?

Have you seen him play? He played DE this past season in a 4-3. He did very well. I still have the Senior Bowl game taped too. He went head-to-head several times with Ferguson... the huge all world LT in this draft. Lawson was not over matched at all. Beat him on several occasions. And he held up nice against the run too.

We could do far worse than selecting Lawson.

milkman
04-23-2006, 06:50 AM
I'd hope we wouldn't draft Lawson a 3-4 backer. Maybe if we played the 3-4, but we don't. So what would be the point of selecting him?

At 6'5"-6'6", he could probably add 20 lbs without losing speed or quickness.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 06:51 AM
Have you seen him play? He played DE this past season in a 4-3. He did very well. I still have the Senior Bowl game taped too. He went head-to-head several times with Ferguson... the huge all world LT in this draft. Lawson was not over matched at all. Beat him on several occasions. And he held up nice against the run too.

We could do far worse tha selecting Lawson.

Well I know we could do far worse than selecting him. All I've heard about this guy is that he's going to be a 3-4 backer, I haven't heard anything about him being a 4-3 DE. What are his measureables?

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 06:54 AM
At 6'5"-6'6", he could probably add 20 lbs without losing speed or quickness.


Does anyone know that? Doesn't he run like a 4.5 or something? It just really concerns me that he played with Williams and we got burned when we drafted Sims.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 06:56 AM
Well I know we could do far worse than selecting him. All I've heard about this guy is that he's going to be a 3-4 backer, I haven't heard anything about him being a 4-3 DE. What are his measureables?

I have heard things about him playing both positions, which he has already done in college. Not sure if it was OLB in a 3-4 or 4-3, but he has played some sort of OLB. He was moved to DE to take advantage of his speed off of the edge.

There is plenty of his measureables listed over in the draft forum. You just have to look for it. Most notable was his 4.4 forty time.

milkman
04-23-2006, 06:59 AM
Does anyone know that? Doesn't he run like a 4.5 or something? It just really concerns me that he played with Williams and we got burned when we drafted Sims.

4.43.

I just don't think that Williams, who played on the opposite side, had that much impact on Lawson's performance.

McCargo is the guy that benefitted from Williams presence.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:00 AM
Does anyone know that? Doesn't he run like a 4.5 or something? It just really concerns me that he played with Williams and we got burned when we drafted Sims.

The first game I tuned in to watch Williams play for NC State, I had no idea which number Williams was. They had two DE's that looked like clones of each other out there. And #91 was the one kicking Fanny and taking names. I figured 91 must be Williams. Nope. It was Lawson.

Opposite ends too, so I don't think this is quite the same as the Sims thing where they were lined up next to each other.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:07 AM
I have heard things about him playing both positions, which he has already done in college. Not sure if it was OLB in a 3-4 or 4-3, but he has played some sort of OLB. He was moved to DE to take advantage of his speed off of the edge.

There is plenty of his measureables listed over in the draft forum. You just have to look for it. Most notable was his 4.4 forty time.


4.4 forty time could possibly drop what a tenth of a second if he added another 20 lbs? I guess if it was pure muscle that he added it shouldn't change it at all. 6'5'' at 240 means he would either have to add 20 pounds or he would have to be super quick off the ball to help on supporting the run.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:09 AM
4.43.

I just don't think that Williams, who played on the opposite side, had that much impact on Lawson's performance.

McCargo is the guy that benefitted from Williams presence.


Yeah, you're right. I thought I read somewhere that McCargo only had 23 tackles. I don't know how I would react if we drafted Lawson but I do know that my reaction toward KC drafting McCargo in the 2nd wouldn't be good.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:12 AM
4.4 forty time could possibly drop what a tenth of a second if he added another 20 lbs? I guess if it was pure muscle that he added it shouldn't change it at all. 6'5'' at 240 means he would either have to add 20 pounds or he would have to be super quick off the ball to help on supporting the run.

260 is what the Bears DE's are. And their front four is pretty damn good. If we are going to the cover two, Lawson would be the place to start IMO. We may need to add a couple of DT's as well, but that is another topic.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:14 AM
Yeah, you're right. I thought I read somewhere that McCargo only had 23 tackles. I don't know how I would react if we drafted Lawson but I do know that my reaction toward KC drafting McCargo in the 2nd wouldn't be good.

McCargo was hurt over half of the season. When he was out, Williams wore his shoulder pads as a tribute to McCargo. Williams gives McCargo much credit for his success, as Williams said he (McCargo) required at least a double team and some times a triple team to be stopped.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:15 AM
260 is what the Bears DE's are. And their front four is pretty damn good. If we are going to the cover two, Lawson would be the place to start IMO. We may need to add a couple of DT's as well, but that is another topic.


Yeah, we definately need to add atleast one DT that can actually create havoc up front. But if Lawson is a good place to start for the cover two, then I'm all for it.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:16 AM
McCargo was hurt over half of the season. When he was out, Williams wore his shoulder pads as a tribute to McCargo. Williams gives McCargo much credit for his success, as Williams said he (McCargo) required at least a double team and some times a triple team to be stopped.


Oh, I didn't know he was hurt. I just read on the schools football website about stats and it didn't say McCargo was hurt. Would you draft McCargo in the 2nd if he was available?

milkman
04-23-2006, 07:17 AM
McCargo was hurt over half of the season. When he was out, Williams wore his shoulder pads as a tribute to McCargo. Williams gives McCargo much credit for his success, as Williams said he (McCargo) required at least a double team and some times a triple team to be stopped.

And yet, when McCargo was out with injury, Wiliams still produced.

That's a friend and a teammate being just that.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:22 AM
Oh, I didn't know he was hurt. I just read on the schools football website about stats and it didn't say McCargo was hurt. Would you draft McCargo in the 2nd if he was available?

I don't know. I would consider it because I think we need some serious upgrades at DT. I just don't know which DT's would be a better fit for the cover two style.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:24 AM
And yet, when McCargo was out with injury, Wiliams still produced.

That's a friend and a teammate being just that.

Very true, but I still think it shows Williams has a tremendous amount of respect for the abilities of McCargo. If it was just a DT who produced very little on the field, I doubt Williams would have done as much.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:24 AM
I don't know. I would consider it because I think we need some serious upgrades at DT. I just don't know which DT's would be a better fit for the cover two style.


I don't really know anything about the cover two and what style of players are needed for it. Got a few extra minutes to tell me a little about it?

Coogs
04-23-2006, 07:34 AM
I don't really know anything about the cover two and what style of players are needed for it. Got a few extra minutes to tell me a little about it?


I'm not a guru at it by any means. But the Tampa Bay Super Bowl front four, and now the Bears front four had/have speed to burn. They played in the backfield a disrupted the passing games before they can get started. Pressure on the QB is the key from mainly the front four.

I think if you search the draftplanet for "Mecca", he could tell you more. He has a couple of posts that deal more with the cover two type of players.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:37 AM
I'm not a guru at it by any means. But the Tampa Bay Super Bowl front four, and now the Bears front four had/have speed to burn. They played in the backfield a disrupted the passing games before they can get started. Pressure on the QB is the key from mainly the front four.

I think if you search the draftplanet for "Mecca", he could tell you more. He has a couple of posts that deal more with the cover two type of players.


I am reading about it on ESPN.com right now and it says the safeties cover a lot of field in it. There is no way our safeties are fast enough to cover a lot of field. I now understand why people on here say we need a safety.

milkman
04-23-2006, 07:45 AM
I am reading about it on ESPN.com right now and it says the safeties cover a lot of field in it. There is no way our safeties are fast enough to cover a lot of field. I now understand why people on here say we need a safety.

Even if we don't go cover 2, most of us that are clamoring for a safety would still be clamoring for a safety.

Sammy Knight is ok, but slow, and Greg Wesley practically lives in the wrong place.

Good defenses, regardless of scheme, have a playmaking safety.

Dunit35
04-23-2006, 07:51 AM
Even if we don't go cover 2, most of us that are clamoring for a safety would still be clamoring for a safety.

Sammy Knight is ok, but slow, and Greg Wesley practically lives in the wrong place.

Good defenses, regardless of scheme, have a playmaking safety.


Well yeah, I was mainly referring to how much space a safety has to cover in the cover two defense. I could definately go with CP drafting a safety in the first three rounds. I wonder what Wesley's 40 time is.

Coogs
04-23-2006, 08:59 AM
Even if we don't go cover 2, most of us that are clamoring for a safety would still be clamoring for a safety.

Sammy Knight is ok, but slow, and Greg Wesley practically lives in the wrong place.

Good defenses, regardless of scheme, have a playmaking safety.

Yep! I really got to believe this draft has to be defense, defense, and more defense.

milkman
04-23-2006, 09:14 AM
Yep! I really got to believe this draft has to be defense, defense, and more defense.

I think defense has to be the priority, but I don't think that you select defense if an offensive player at your pick is clearly a better value.

DaWolf
04-23-2006, 09:14 AM
“When I look at guys at that position, I want to see if they’re mentally tough,” Edwards said. “That’s what it takes for these guys to play in this league. It’s not always their 40 time. It helps you, but the guys that are mentally tough, the guys that have what I call selective memory, that if something bad happens it’s over and you go on to the next play, it takes those kind of guys to play in this league.

“I always put on a film of when the guy got beat. I want to see how he plays after he got beat. Does he become a soft guy? Does he continue to challenge? Does he continue to compete? That’s going to happen to him (in the NFL). He’s going to get beat more than once. I want to see how he reacts to that. That’s how you find out about a guy and if he can play in this league.”

Yet another insight as to why Warfield was cut...

Count Zarth
04-23-2006, 12:20 PM
I'll be pretty pissed off if we draft Manny Lawson in the first round. Hes another example of how he exploited the fact that he had a great Dline to help him out. I dont think we need to go the Gary Stills route again on the Dline. He has a LB body, tackles would punish him. People wanna talk about Dwight Freeney, well Freeney is bigger than Lawson (1), and (2), Freeney sucks ass against the run.

Gary stills isn't tall. His wingspan doesn't even compare to Lawson's. Huge, huge difference. They are not similar players.

Mecca
04-23-2006, 12:36 PM
I don't really know anything about the cover two and what style of players are needed for it. Got a few extra minutes to tell me a little about it?

Anyone clamoring for a big DT like a Haloti Ngata or anyone of that mold is off if we're going cover 2. Cover 2 is all about smaller gap penetrating DT's that get in the backfield, not big space eaters.

Rausch
04-23-2006, 12:57 PM
I am reading about it on ESPN.com right now and it says the safeties cover a lot of field in it. There is no way our safeties are fast enough to cover a lot of field. I now understand why people on here say we need a safety.

No one will accuse John Lynch of being speedy but he was excellent in the cover 2.

Our problem is players making mistakes and not being where they're supposed to, biting on play action/bootlegs, and otherwise ****ing up their assignments...