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ChiefsCountry
04-24-2006, 10:41 PM
do we take a chance on him? A potential franchise quarterback. Him and LJ could make a darn good backfield. Or do we pass and do the defense thing.

Tough choice IMO.

Dunit35
04-25-2006, 04:14 AM
I'd pass on him and see if someone wants to trade up to grab him. I'm sure he will be gone by pick 15 though.

Miles
04-25-2006, 04:51 AM
Figure he will be gone by then but could also see him falling fast like Rogers last year. If we have a chance at him it will be a tough call.

I am not real big on him as a prospect but his upside seems to put him as nice replacement for Green in a few years. One of those moves that would hurt us in the short run but may be good in the future. I would still tend to prefer us to take someone that would help us in the more immediate future.

chop
04-25-2006, 04:54 AM
If he is the best player available at the time I would draft him. Now if a player is available, rated the same as Cutler but fitting a position of need then maybe you pass on him. I'm all for drafting the best player available regardless of position.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 06:27 AM
Hell yes we take him.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 06:44 AM
Hell yes we take him.
Yup.

Unless you can get good value in a trade.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 07:06 AM
You take Cutler immediately.

Old Dog
04-25-2006, 07:35 AM
Run........do not walk to the podium if this happens.

eazyb81
04-25-2006, 07:46 AM
If he was there he should certainly be considered, but I don't think it is the slam dunk, obvious choice that most here seem to think it would be.

What if Lawson, Cromartie, and Williams were available as well? What if Justice was available? If he is by far the best value, then sure, draft him. But if there are other players with similar value available and would be able to help us next year, then it's not such a no brainer.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 07:51 AM
No.

Sully
04-25-2006, 08:45 AM
Draft him.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 09:08 AM
Why is everybody so enamored with Cutler? Because he has all the measurables?

He's got a TON of work to do to make it in this league, and some of his problems (poor decision-making, taking stupid risks) remind me an awful lot of Jake Plummer and Joey Harrington.

Hopefully, this plays out like Harrington did and we miss out on him.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 09:15 AM
If he was there he should certainly be considered, but I don't think it is the slam dunk, obvious choice that most here seem to think it would be.

What if Lawson, Cromartie, and Williams were available as well? What if Justice was available? If he is by far the best value, then sure, draft him. But if there are other players with similar value available and would be able to help us next year, then it's not such a no brainer.By virtue of the position, I don't think you can put a good QB prospect in the same category as the guys you listed. Very rarely will you get the chance to get a franchise QB through FA, but almost any other position always has FAs available. Cutler is easily a 1st round prospect, and arguably the best QB in the draft (especially if you don't need him to start right away).

As much as I want D, this would be the chance to get another crucial piece in what could be the next great young offense. It may not payoff right away, but it would have the potential to have serious long term value that is rarely available at the QB position.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 09:21 AM
By virtue of the position, I don't think you can put a good QB prospect in the same category as the guys you listed. Very rarely will you get the chance to get a franchise QB through FA, but almost any other position always has FAs available. Cutler is easily a 1st round prospect, and arguably the best QB in the draft (especially if you don't need him to start right away).

As much as I want D, this would be the chance to get another crucial piece in what could be the next great young offense. It may not payoff right away, but it would have the potential to have serious long term value that is rarely available at the QB position.

I was just getting ready to post my next reply when I read this.

I was going to say "Cutler is being overvalued because he's a QB."

oldandslow
04-25-2006, 09:24 AM
The Vikes will take him at 17 if he falls that far.

Count on it.

That is, of course, if they make it to the podium on time.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 09:37 AM
The Vikes will take him at 17 if he falls that far.

Count on it.

That is, of course, if they make it to the podium on time.

Living in Vikingland as I do, that's what I'm hearing too.....although, I guess it could be a smokescreen. I doubt it, given Johnson's age and their QB situation.

Coogs
04-25-2006, 09:42 AM
do we take a chance on him? A potential franchise quarterback. Him and LJ could make a darn good backfield. Or do we pass and do the defense thing.

Tough choice IMO.

I think it depends on the "is the Super Bowl window open or is it closed" mentality up at Arrowhead. If they think it is open, I think defense will win out over QB in round 1. QB in round 1 screams closed and rebuilding to me which means anything goes in this draft.

Personally, I think the window is pretty much closed. Cracked open at the very best. Nothing will surprise me this Saturday, but I would still go about rebuilding this thing from the defensive side of the ball first.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 09:45 AM
I think it depends on the "is the Super Bowl window open or is it closed" mentality up at Arrowhead. If they think it is open, I think defense will win out over QB in round 1. QB in round 1 screams closed and rebuilding to me which means anything goes in this draft.

Personally, I think the window is pretty much closed. Cracked open at the very best. Nothing will surprise me this Saturday, but I would still go about rebuilding this thing from the defensive side of the ball first.

I would tend to agree. What I don't agree with is that the pick should be Cutler in that case. There's plenty of QBotF types in this draft without spending our 1st-round pick on a guy that could be the 2nd-coming of Jake Plummer.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 09:51 AM
Why is everybody so enamored with Cutler? Because he has all the measurables?

He's got a TON of work to do to make it in this league, and some of his problems (poor decision-making, taking stupid risks) remind me an awful lot of Jake Plummer and Joey Harrington.

Hopefully, this plays out like Harrington did and we miss out on him.

Phil Simms on Cutler over at NFL.COM:

JAY CUTLER
The most overrated player in the draft? That's pretty funny.

I was very surprised when I watched Cutler on film for a couple of reasons. I didn't realize how good an athlete he is. He's big, very strong, and has an NFL body, especially for a quarterback.

He plays big and he plays strong. He can move around much better than I thought. He ran some option, ran the football well. He can stand in, and deliver the ball downfield with accuracy and power even when getting hit. His arm strength is exceptional -- tremendous. And what I like so much about his arm strength is that on short passes he gets the ball to his targets quick so they have a chance to run with it. It's not a high-effort throw. He doesn't have to work hard to get the ball somewhere with speed. It's natural.

I've read and heard from some NFL coaches that he tries to use his arm too much -- maybe tries to throw the ball hard when he shouldn't. I didn't notice that, but I did see him try to stick the ball into some tough spots. But I would look at that as a plus. At least a coach has the ability to tell a Jay Cutler to take something off his passes if he needs to.

Cutler probably played in an environment that was most NFL-like for a quarterback. I watched about five Vanderbilt games, and he got hit a lot. He's used to making decisions and throwing from a position that is more like what he'll see in the NFL.

There were a bunch of games that Vanderbilt would not have had a chance to win or stay close if he were not the quarterback. You could say that about Leinart and Young, but I'm not sure USC or Texas would have lost one or two games if their backup quarterbacks were in there. I don't know anything about the backup quarterback at Vanderbilt, but I know Cutler was always the best player on the field in their games.

THE SAFE PICK
What's interesting about these three quarterbacks is that we're dealing with three really different styles. For example, Vince Young is certainly capable of being a very good NFL quarterback … but it's a little unique and a little different. As an offensive coach, you're going to put in plays that you never put in before.


Jay Cutler might turn out to be the safest pick of the top three QBs.
I've heard it said that Cutler is the riskiest pick of the three because his name is not as big. I think it's actually the complete opposite.

By NFL standards, the safest pick of the three is Cutler. He's big and strong, has enough mobility and can make all the throws. Whether it's the West Coast, East Coast -- whatever offense he gets drafted into, he's going to be able to adapt to it. I'm not sure you can say that about the other two. There are offenses in the NFL that are not made for Matt Leinart, because they love to throw the ball downfield. That's not what he is going to be great at.

People compare Leinart to Tom Brady, and they like to talk about Brady's "intangibles" and leadership qualities, etc. But in my eyes, the quality that has made Tom Brady great is that he can really, really throw the football well. It's amazing how much smarter you can look as a quarterback if you can throw the ball that well. I don't mind people praising his other qualities, but his ability to "drive" the football, throw tight spirals and give his receivers a chance to run with the football is really the key.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 09:52 AM
I was just getting ready to post my next reply when I read this.

I was going to say "Cutler is being overvalued because he's a QB."I disagree with the notion that it's overvaluing for QB prospects. The market dictates the value, so to speak. There just aren't as many good prospects, and it's widely regarded as the most important position on the team.

The importance of the position, combined with the lack of quality prospects makes it more valuable.

Dunit35
04-25-2006, 09:54 AM
But but but.......Mel Kiper says Cutler isn't as good as people think he is.

Coogs
04-25-2006, 09:55 AM
I would tend to agree. What I don't agree with is that the pick should be Cutler in that case. There's plenty of QBotF types in this draft without spending our 1st-round pick on a guy that could be the 2nd-coming of Jake Plummer.

I agree totally. But if Cutler is somehow the pick tells me Herm has no eyes on the Super Bowl this season.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 09:56 AM
Phil Simms on Cutler over at NFL.COM:

JAY CUTLER
The most overrated player in the draft? That's pretty funny.

I was very surprised when I watched Cutler on film for a couple of reasons. I didn't realize how good an athlete he is. He's big, very strong, and has an NFL body, especially for a quarterback.

He plays big and he plays strong. He can move around much better than I thought. He ran some option, ran the football well. He can stand in, and deliver the ball downfield with accuracy and power even when getting hit. His arm strength is exceptional -- tremendous. And what I like so much about his arm strength is that on short passes he gets the ball to his targets quick so they have a chance to run with it. It's not a high-effort throw. He doesn't have to work hard to get the ball somewhere with speed. It's natural.

I've read and heard from some NFL coaches that he tries to use his arm too much -- maybe tries to throw the ball hard when he shouldn't. I didn't notice that, but I did see him try to stick the ball into some tough spots. But I would look at that as a plus. At least a coach has the ability to tell a Jay Cutler to take something off his passes if he needs to.

Cutler probably played in an environment that was most NFL-like for a quarterback. I watched about five Vanderbilt games, and he got hit a lot. He's used to making decisions and throwing from a position that is more like what he'll see in the NFL.

There were a bunch of games that Vanderbilt would not have had a chance to win or stay close if he were not the quarterback. You could say that about Leinart and Young, but I'm not sure USC or Texas would have lost one or two games if their backup quarterbacks were in there. I don't know anything about the backup quarterback at Vanderbilt, but I know Cutler was always the best player on the field in their games.

THE SAFE PICK
What's interesting about these three quarterbacks is that we're dealing with three really different styles. For example, Vince Young is certainly capable of being a very good NFL quarterback … but it's a little unique and a little different. As an offensive coach, you're going to put in plays that you never put in before.


Jay Cutler might turn out to be the safest pick of the top three QBs.
I've heard it said that Cutler is the riskiest pick of the three because his name is not as big. I think it's actually the complete opposite.

By NFL standards, the safest pick of the three is Cutler. He's big and strong, has enough mobility and can make all the throws. Whether it's the West Coast, East Coast -- whatever offense he gets drafted into, he's going to be able to adapt to it. I'm not sure you can say that about the other two. There are offenses in the NFL that are not made for Matt Leinart, because they love to throw the ball downfield. That's not what he is going to be great at.

People compare Leinart to Tom Brady, and they like to talk about Brady's "intangibles" and leadership qualities, etc. But in my eyes, the quality that has made Tom Brady great is that he can really, really throw the football well. It's amazing how much smarter you can look as a quarterback if you can throw the ball that well. I don't mind people praising his other qualities, but his ability to "drive" the football, throw tight spirals and give his receivers a chance to run with the football is really the key.

I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 09:58 AM
I agree totally. But if Cutler is somehow the pick tells me Herm has no eyes on the Super Bowl this season.

How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 09:59 AM
I disagree with the notion that it's overvaluing for QB prospects. The market dictates the value, so to speak. There just aren't as many good prospects, and it's widely regarded as the most important position on the team.

The importance of the position, combined with the lack of quality prospects makes it more valuable.

Take a look at 1st round QB's currently active in the league, particularly starters, and compare that to guys like Tom Brady, Trent Green, and the like.

QB is probably more risky than any other position in the draft.

If this team takes a QB, especially one like Cutler, they're more stupid than I thought they were.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 09:59 AM
I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

Or, maybe Sims realizes Cutler didn't have much talent around him and had to force balls to make things happen.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 10:00 AM
I see Simms conveniently left out the fact that Cutler likes to make throws that he has no business making. Bravado? Maybe. Stupiditiy? Possibly.

But if you just omit that fact, you could make a great case for Jake Plummer.

Jake Plummer? Or Brett Favre? :hmmm:

Coogs
04-25-2006, 10:01 AM
How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

Well, like I said a few posts back, I think the window is cracked open a bit at best. And a defensive draft is all that will convince me that it is not slamed shut.

I still would rebuild it from the defensive side, starting with speed in the front four.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 10:03 AM
Take a look at 1st round QB's currently active in the league, particularly starters, and compare that to guys like Tom Brady, Trent Green, and the like.

QB is probably more risky than any other position in the draft.

If this team takes a QB, especially one like Cutler, they're more stupid than I thought they were.Depends on the rest of the draft. If they don't draft for defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I'd agree.....but I tend to think they can get two quality picks, with those selections (maybe Wright or Tapp, and Griffin or Minter)

It may be a while before they could get the value at QB, again, they would get with Cutler at 20.....

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 10:05 AM
How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

He isn't any different.

That's why I have about 10 players ahead of him, just like I have 10 players ahead of Cromartie.

As for Lawson or Wimbley, it has to do with tangibles vs. intangibles.

Cutler is a physical specimen with all the measurable, just like Lawson. Lawson can get by on those measurables, Cutler can't. Cutler plays QB and 60%, if not more, of being a great QB is MENTAL, something Cutler has shown repeatedly in the past he has problems with.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 10:07 AM
Jake Plummer? Or Brett Favre? :hmmm:

Brett Favre wasn't a 1st-round pick. Try again.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 10:08 AM
Depends on the rest of the draft. If they don't draft for defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, I'd agree.....but I tend to think they can get two quality picks, with those selections (maybe Wright or Tapp, and Griffin or Minter)

It may be a while before they could get the value at QB, again, they would get with Cutler at 20.....

What value?

ct
04-25-2006, 10:09 AM
How is Cutler any different from a Cromartie who started 1 college game, or a Lawson or Wimbley? How often is KC going to line up a 240lb DE on the line? A lot of the top prospects at 20 are big projects who aren't going to have the impact a lot of people are hoping for.

A lot is being made of Lawson being light weighted for a DE. One of the other threads in Draftplanet (not gonna go look it up), had a quote from someone pointing out that both Jason Taylor and Jevon Kearse came into the NFL as rookies weighing about as much. I think those 2 have done fairly well.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 10:12 AM
What value?

I think Cutler will be a good pro QB for a long time. I think that's a good value with the 20th pick in the draft, given the dearth of good QBs in the NFL.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 10:16 AM
I think Cutler will be a good pro QB for a long time. I think that's a good value with the 20th pick in the draft, given the dearth of good QBs in the NFL.

Cutler is a physical specimen with tons of potential. He's also got some very big question marks that put him in the "boom/bust" category.

He'd be good value in the 2nd round, and great value in the 3rd.

He's not good value at #20 in the 1st round. He'd be a high risk/high reward pick, but high risk does not equal value.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 10:18 AM
Brett Favre wasn't a 1st-round pick. Try again.

I know that (neither was Montana, Brady, etc I know)...

I just think he has a better chance of becoming a good QB, than anyone else we (theoretically) have a shot at, anytime soon. Does that mean we've given up on next year if we select him, and entered "rebuilding" mode? Not necessarily. However, it could put more pressure on CP to figure out something more creative to fix the Defense for next year....

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 10:22 AM
I know that (neither was Montana, Brady, etc I know)...

I just think he has a better chance of becoming a good QB, than anyone else we (theoretically) have a shot at, anytime soon. Does that mean we've given up on next year if we select him, and entered "rebuilding" mode? Not necessarily. However, it could put more pressure on CP to figure out something more creative to fix the Defense for next year....

I disagree strongly. I think Cutler has LESS of a shot.

I'd much prefer a smart QB with a little less physical tools.

Trent Green >>>> Jake Plummer

CosmicPal
04-25-2006, 10:36 AM
No

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 10:44 AM
Cutler is a physical specimen with tons of potential. He's also got some very big question marks that put him in the "boom/bust" category.

He'd be good value in the 2nd round, and great value in the 3rd.

He's not good value at #20 in the 1st round. He'd be a high risk/high reward pick, but high risk does not equal value.Well, some other team will likely grab him before 20 anyway, so I doubt we'll have to make the decision.....as for the boom/bust category, I think you could say that about nearly anyone we could select at 20. I don't see a 2005 type scenario with someone like DJ falling into our laps (Williams, maybe?)....I hope I'm wrong.

I disagree strongly. I think Cutler has LESS of a shot.

I'd much prefer a smart QB with a little less physical tools.

Trent Green >>>> Jake PlummerInteresting. How many later round Matt Blundin or Pat Barnes have been drafted into the NFL, compared to the success stories like Favre/Brady/Montannas? Guess we'll see....

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 10:59 AM
Cutler is a physical specimen with tons of potential. He's also got some very big question marks that put him in the "boom/bust" category.

He'd be good value in the 2nd round, and great value in the 3rd.

He's not good value at #20 in the 1st round. He'd be a high risk/high reward pick, but high risk does not equal value.


What are all of the big question marks with Cutler?

The biggest critique I've read is that at times he forces throws, which can be directly attributable to the fact that he had no talent around him. Remember Trent Green forcing throws to Tony G who was double or triple teamed? It happens when a QB has no other no options.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:03 AM
Well, some other team will likely grab him before 20 anyway, so I doubt we'll have to make the decision.....as for the boom/bust category, I think you could say that about nearly anyone we could select at 20. I don't see a 2005 type scenario with someone like DJ falling into our laps (Williams, maybe?)....I hope I'm wrong.

Interesting. How many later round Matt Blundin or Pat Barnes have been drafted into the NFL, compared to the success stories like Favre/Brady/Montannas? Guess we'll see....

Here's an example: Tamba Hali is not boom/bust. Actually that's the reason why he's sliding - he's a "safe" pick with very little potential to "boom".

And Blundin was actually the 40th overall pick - a 2nd-rounder.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:04 AM
What are all of the big question marks with Cutler?

The biggest critique I've read is that at times he forces throws, which can be directly attributable to the fact that he had no talent around him. Remember Trent Green forcing throws to Tony G who was double or triple teamed? It happens when a QB has no other no options.

He didn't just force throws. He played reckless and out-of-control.

Forced throw = Trent Green lob to Gonzo in triple coverage
Out-of-control = Jake Plummer left-handed shovel pass from his own end zone

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 11:08 AM
He didn't just force throws. He played reckless and out-of-control.

Forced throw = Trent Green lob to Gonzo in triple coverage
Out-of-control = Jake Plummer left-handed shovel pass from his own end zoneI like Trent Green a lot. However, it took 6-8 years to develop him. We don't have that sort of luxury.

This whole discussion is probably mooot anyway; I expect the next REAL Chief's QB to come via FA anyway, given their history of developing QBs....:banghead:

Here's an example: Tamba Hali is not boom/bust. Actually that's the reason why he's sliding - he's a "safe" pick with very little potential to "boom"....

My impression of Hali's slide is it's because of he lacks pure speed (he's more quick), and his lack of real "upside" (he IS who he will be?).

FTR, I like Hali....as long as we trade down to do it.

Mr. Laz
04-25-2006, 11:10 AM
if he drops ... we take him


he needs time to develop and with trent green around we have that time.


we aren't 1 first round pick away anyway


at vandy Cutler got the crap pounded out of him ... which may explain some of his recklessness.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 11:13 AM
In MY OPINION -- yes, he's the best QB in the draft.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:13 AM
I like Trent Green a lot. However, it took 6-8 years to develop him. We don't have that sort of luxury.

This whole discussion is probably mooot anyway; I expect the next REAL Chief's QB to come via FA anyway, given their history of developing QBs....:banghead:



My impression of Hali's slide is it's because of he lacks pure speed (he's more quick), and his lack of real "upside" (he IS who he will be?).

FTR, I like Hali....as long as we trade down to do it.

You basically said the exact same thing about Hali that I did. He lacks upside. Hence, he's not "boom or bust".

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:14 AM
if he drops ... we take him


he needs time to develop and with trent green around we have that time.


we aren't 1 first round pick away anyway


at vandy Cutler got the crap pounded out of him ... which may explain some of his recklessness.

I don't disagree with grooming a QB under Green or that we're a 1st-round pick away.

The only thing I disagree with is Cutler himself. There's other QB's in this draft I'd rather have, and none of them would cost us even close to a 1st-round pick.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't disagree with grooming a QB under Green or that we're a 1st-round pick away.

The only thing I disagree with is Cutler himself. There's other QB's in this draft I'd rather have, and none of them would cost us even close to a 1st-round pick.

How about Hali in the first, best available DB in the second, Whitehurst in the third.....and best available DT for the compensatory third round pick we get for trading down for Hali? :D

Can we compromise with that? :p

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:45 AM
How about Hali in the first, best available DB in the second, Whitehurst in the third.....and best available DT for the compensatory third round pick we get for trading down for Hali? :D

Can we compromise with that? :p

Sure, although I'd rather have Croyle than Whitehurst and I think Hali may end up being a 2nd-rounder.

RedThat
04-25-2006, 11:49 AM
if he's there....I think you have to pass on him.

There is no sense in taking him. Trent will be here another 3 years anyway.
I don't like to see my team draft a QB knowing he'll be on the bench for 3 years trying to progress and learn behind Green. That is no different than a project, and I think it would be a lot wiser to draft a QB in the 3rd or 5th round if thats the case. There is no need to draft a guy like that in the 1st round. And it's not like this team has a sense of urgency to draft a QB. You have to view the situation with our team, look whats right.

I'll be pissed if we drafted Cutler. Now, if he's there at 20, and a team behind us needs a QB, thats fine....But would that team trade up with us? I like for this team to acquire extra draft picks....And I think Cutler would represent good trade value.

jlscorpio
04-25-2006, 11:53 AM
old and slow hit it on the money. Because I live in North Dakota, I'm forced to listen to Minnesota sports talk or none at all. The Vikings are already salivating over possibility of him falling to 17. They've even talked about trading up for him. The book on Cutler is all over the place. Everything from "He's the best QB in the draft" to "He's not a day 1 pick". Crazy. But if, for some crazy reason, he's there, he's a chance I'd be willing to take.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:54 AM
if he's there....I think you have to pass on him.

There is no sense in taking him. Trent will be here another 3 years anyway.
I don't like to see my team draft a QB knowing he'll be on the bench for 3 years trying to progress and learn behind Green. That is no different than a project, and I think it would be a lot wiser to draft a QB in the 3rd or 5th round if thats the case. There is no need to draft a guy like that in the 1st round. And it's not like this team has a sense of urgency to draft a QB. You have to view the situation with our team, look whats right.

I'll be pissed if we drafted Cutler. Now, if he's there at 20, and a team behind us needs a QB, thats fine....But would that team trade up with us? I like for this team to acquire extra draft picks....And I think Cutler would represent good trade value.

Good post.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 11:54 AM
if he's there....I think you have to pass on him.

There is no sense in taking him. Trent will be here another 3 years anyway.
I don't like to see my team draft a QB knowing he'll be on the bench for 3 years trying to progress and learn behind Green. That is no different than a project, and I think it would be a lot wiser to draft a QB in the 3rd or 5th round if thats the case. There is no need to draft a guy like that in the 1st round. And it's not like this team has a sense of urgency to draft a QB. You have to view the situation with our team, look whats right.

I'll be pissed if we drafted Cutler. Now, if he's there at 20, and a team behind us needs a QB, thats fine....But would that team trade up with us? I like for this team to acquire extra draft picks....And I think Cutler would represent good trade value.

Could have said the same thing about drafting LJ.....:)


Three years? I think we begin looking to replace him next year...I'd bet he holds onto the job next year.....but by the 2008 season Trent will be 38 yrs old.....:hmmm:

ct
04-25-2006, 11:59 AM
Could have said the same thing about drafting LJ.....:)
...

I disagree. A young RB could come in a play well immediately, even if only a few plays a game. Of course we all saw that he didn't play right away, but he could have. Big difference than a project QB.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 12:01 PM
I disagree. A young RB could come in a play well immediately, even if only a few plays a game. Of course we all saw that he didn't play right away, but he could have. Big difference than a project QB.
And you are 100% sure of that? That he didn't get stronger, and smarter watching Priest for a couple of years? :shrug:

Profiles of LJ, were mixed (at best) at the time....

Dunit35
04-25-2006, 12:02 PM
Vandy vs. Florida on ESPN classic. I haven't watched Cutler play before.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 12:03 PM
Could have said the same thing about drafting LJ.....:)


Three years? I think we begin looking to replace him next year...I'd bet he holds onto the job next year.....but by the 2008 season Trent will be 38 yrs old.....:hmmm:

Trent Green isn't holding out for a huge contract, nor is he currently re-habbing from what many people thought was a career-ending injury.

Not to mention the fact that LJ was as NFL-ready as they come and Cutler isn't...

The two scenarios aren't even close to analagous...

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 12:04 PM
Trent Green isn't holding out for a huge contract, nor is he currently re-habbing from what many people thought was a career-ending injury.

Not to mention the fact that LJ was as NFL-ready as they come and Cutler isn't...

The two scenarios aren't even close to analagous...

If you say so.....:hmmm:

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 12:05 PM
If you say so.....:hmmm:

See, there IS alot you can learn from paying attention to Laz. :D

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 12:06 PM
See, there IS alot you can learn from paying attention to Laz. :D

Yeah, yeah.....:p

eazyb81
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM
if he drops ... we take him


he needs time to develop and with trent green around we have that time.


we aren't 1 first round pick away anyway


at vandy Cutler got the crap pounded out of him ... which may explain some of his recklessness.

I'm not so sure about that.

I would agree with you that it is probably unlikely to find a 1st round pick that will push this team into legit SB contention.

However, what if a guy like Manny Lawson shows the pass rush ability that Shawne Merriman did last year?

What if we draft a player like Jimmy Williams that shows the coverage ability like Carlos Rogers did last year?

The odds say that we probably won't get an impact player like that at #20 this year, but you can never say never. My point is that we certainly could be one 1st round pick away this year.

RedThat
04-25-2006, 12:14 PM
Good post.

Thanks
:)

RedThat
04-25-2006, 12:19 PM
Could have said the same thing about drafting LJ.....:)


Three years? I think we begin looking to replace him next year...I'd bet he holds onto the job next year.....but by the 2008 season Trent will be 38 yrs old.....:hmmm:

Well, the LJ situation was different. At the time Priest was hurt, and we didn't know if he'd come back?

I still find the LJ pick intriguing, and quite a story. It's amazing how a team drafts a guy to be an insurance policy, and then he is now consider their franchise player. unbelievable.

Yeah I know Trent is getting there in age....but we know he can play for 2 years or more.....We should be looking to draft a QB in either the 2nd or 3rd round....possibly next year, or the year after, imo.

ct
04-25-2006, 12:40 PM
Vandy vs. Florida on ESPN classic. I haven't watched Cutler play before.

I'd like to hear your thoughts after you watch this game. I've never seem him play either.

Coogs
04-25-2006, 01:06 PM
if he drops ... we take him


he needs time to develop and with trent green around we have that time.


we aren't 1 first round pick away anyway


at vandy Cutler got the crap pounded out of him ... which may explain some of his recklessness.


A long time ago, I used to go to a lot of Kansas State football games. Steve Grogan took a beating, and you never really saw anything that would tell you he would do very well in the NFL. Yet he did.

And I am not sure how good the KSU team was with Lynn Dickey, although they did beat Nebraska IIRC, but he did OK as an NFL QB too.

So just because Cutler comes from a bad Vandy program does not mean he could not do well.


And, BTW, I also agree that we aren't 1 first round pick away.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:08 PM
A long time ago, I used to go to a lot of Kansas State football games. Steve Grogan took a beating, and you never really saw anything that would tell you he would do very well in the NFL. Yet he did.

And I am not sure how good the KSU team was with Lynn Dickey, although they did beat Nebraska IIRC, but he did OK as an NFL QB too.

So just because Cutler comes from a bad Vandy program does not mean he could not do well.


And, BTW, I also agree that we aren't 1 first round pick away.

My apprehension with Cutler has nothing to do with him playing for Vandy, playing for a bad team, or taking a beating.

It has everything to do with him displaying, frequently, qualities that I don't want to see in my QB.

Tribal Warfare
04-25-2006, 04:29 PM
BPA yes I'd take him

HerculesRockefell
04-25-2006, 04:32 PM
The Vikes will take him at 17 if he falls that far.

Count on it.


He won't make it past #15

Mr. Laz
04-25-2006, 05:07 PM
My apprehension with Cutler has nothing to do with him playing for Vandy, playing for a bad team, or taking a beating.

It has everything to do with him displaying, frequently, qualities that I don't want to see in my QB.
but that beating he was taking often effects those qualities



you watch trent green(or 90% of QB's) ... if he starts getting pressured he will start making bad decisions.

JBucc
04-25-2006, 05:40 PM
Finally internet came back on. Hell yes we take him if he falls that far.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2006, 09:34 PM
I disagree strongly. I think Cutler has LESS of a shot.

I'd much prefer a smart QB with a little less physical tools.

Trent Green >>>> Jake Plummer
tiptap's article provides some interesting insights into the discussion you and I had about QBs....confirmed my instincts and observations, but doesn't directly refute your points about Cutler necessarily.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/3828/

An excerpt:
The quarterback position is especially top heavy. Exactly half of the starting QBs in the NFL (when this data was collected) were drafted in the first round. For whatever reason, the sixth round has been fairly lucrative, but pretty much anything after round one is a long shot. Interestingly, some of the better signal-callers have not been selected in the first four rounds: Tom Brady, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Trent Green, and Jake Delhomme. But only Brady has been productive for the team he was originally drafted by. (If the Saints had recognized the potential in either Bulger or Delhomme, they would have been a much better team the last few years. At least the Packers got some compensation for Brunell and Hasselbeck – and seemed to have a pretty productive guy at QB anyway.) The QB position is by far the toughest to fill, and most teams are (and should be) willing to fill it by any means necessary. First round QBs are no sure thing, but anyone picked after the first round appears to be a very long shot that will require several years of development. And even those late round guys that do work out will probably have to move to a new team to be successful. The bottom line here is that until you’ve found your guy you should jump at any opportunity to acquire a quality starter, be it early in the draft, late in the draft, via trade, or through free agency. Don’t pass on a QB early in the draft because you also like a guy that could be had later. If you are really in need of a QB you should probably draft them both.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2006, 04:33 PM
He won't make it past #15

He won't make it past #10.

Arizona gets him at 10, or the Rams make the bonehead decision to move up to get him.

Shy of an injury, arrest or death, Cutler goes Top 10.

JBucc
04-26-2006, 04:37 PM
He won't make it past #10.

Arizona gets him at 10, or the Rams make the bonehead decision to move up to get him.

Shy of an injury, arrest or death, Cutler goes Top 10.I don't get why some mocks have the Rams wanting him. Is Bulger hurt or something cause last time I checked he was pretty good.

OnTheWarpath58
04-26-2006, 04:45 PM
I don't get why some mocks have the Rams wanting him. Is Bulger hurt or something cause last time I checked he was pretty good.

Your guess is as good as mine. The sports talk stations here in STL have been riding Linehan's ass for even THINKING of drafting a QB. Of course, this could be one of those "make 'em think we're thinking QB" type of stunts......just to screw with the teams around them.

IMO, the Rams would be foolish NOT to pick either Ngata or Bunkley, provided one of them is there at 11. Combine one of those two with the addition of Glover and their DL starts looking respectable again.

Gotta be a smokescreen.

BigChiefFan
04-26-2006, 04:48 PM
I don't get why some mocks have the Rams wanting him. Is Bulger hurt or something cause last time I checked he was pretty good.New head coach. New head coaches always want their guy, so some are speculating Cutler may be the pick.

ct
04-27-2006, 07:29 AM
I don't get why some mocks have the Rams wanting him. Is Bulger hurt or something cause last time I checked he was pretty good.

Bulger always gets hurt. That guys is as fragile as they come. If I'm Linehan, and Cutler drops in my lap, damn right I take him!

However, I agree with Warpath, don't see him slipping past Zona out of the top10, but stranger things have happened.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 07:42 AM
Bulger always gets hurt. That guys is as fragile as they come. If I'm Linehan, and Cutler drops in my lap, damn right I take him!

However, I agree with Warpath, don't see him slipping past Zona out of the top10, but stranger things have happened.

Yep. Bulger is pretty fragile.