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View Full Version : Would you give up our third for Charles Grant?


CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 11:41 AM
Disappointing year in 2005 (although he played a lot of NT so cut him some slack on the sack numbers), is a UFA in 2006 and the Saints could proceed to take Mario Williams at #2 overall........

Thoughts?

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 11:59 AM
Pass.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 12:03 PM
Depends on the contract. I would certainly consider it if he didn't get a monster contract.

What's not to like? He's young and productive. Certainly an upgrade over Hicks.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 12:08 PM
Wasn't he a DE?? I think the Jets took Thomas at #22 and Grant was taken with the 25 pick. I guess Herm wasn't that enamored with him the first time around.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM
Wasn't he a DE?? I think the Jets took Thomas at #22 and Grant was taken with the 25 pick. I guess Herm wasn't that enamored with him the first time around.

Yeah, he's a natural DE, but he's 290 lbs, and with Darren Howard/Will Smith on the roster, he saw some considerable time on the interior.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM
Pass.

KTHXBYE

ct
04-25-2006, 12:13 PM
Why, when we can get a younger and cheaper, and possibly better DE, say Chris Gocong, in the 3rd?

jspchief
04-25-2006, 12:17 PM
Why, when we can get a younger and cheaper, and possibly better DE, say Chris Gocong, in the 3rd?Younger and cheaper? Sure. We can put only rookies on the entire team, and get younger and cheaper. Bargain shopping is great, but at some point we might want some talent.

Grant has been a very solid DE in the first four years of his career. I seriously doubt we'll get a comparable player late in the third round.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 12:17 PM
Yeah, he's a natural DE, but he's 290 lbs, and with Darren Howard/Will Smith on the roster, he saw some considerable time on the interior.

Exactly why we should pass. We need smaller, Cover 2 defensive ends and we don't really need another DE/DT hybrid - aka Vonnie Holliday.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Exactly why we should pass. We need smaller, Cover 2 defensive ends and we don't really need another DE/DT hybrid - aka Vonnie Holliday.

What's a "cover-2 defensive end"?

Just a pure pass-rusher?

I believe Grant has the talent to get 15 sacks and compliment Jared Allen at the LDE position.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 12:20 PM
Why, when we can get a younger and cheaper, and possibly better DE, say Chris Gocong, in the 3rd?

The, "possibly better" part is the key.

Charles Grant was a third-rounder and has produced in the NFL.

Comparing a third- to fifth-round talent like Gocong to Grant is, at this point, a huge reach.

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 12:36 PM
Yeah, he's a natural DE, but he's 290 lbs, and with Darren Howard/Will Smith on the roster, he saw some considerable time on the interior.

So, he racked up 27.5 sacks in 3 years playing DE before the Saints moved him inside this past year and his numbers dropped?

Based on stats alone I think it would be a good trade. When playing end he averaged 9 sacks a year and is big enough to handle the run. Not many 1st rounders can do that, let alone 3rd round players.

eazyb81
04-25-2006, 12:59 PM
I'm not going to say definitely yes or no, but I would certainly be open to exploring the trade. Grant was a 1st rounder just a couple years ago and has really done nothing to make that trade look like a bust. He has played out of position a bit recently due to having three good DEs on the roster, but when he played DE he was productive.

If we don't get a DE in the 1st or 2nd, then I would be okay with going after Grant for a 3rd.

ANYTHING to get Eric Hicks out of the starting lineup and off the field.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 01:06 PM
So, he racked up 27.5 sacks in 3 years playing DE before the Saints moved him inside this past year and his numbers dropped?

I don't think it's quite as simple as that (he played some DE in 2005 as well), but that's basically what I have heard from Saints fans.

I'm sure that if the trade was to happen, we would go to a Saints forum and find out more, but at this point, it doesn't seem worth it.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:09 PM
My only thing is:

If Grant really is good, why did the Saints feel the need to draft Will Smith?

I'm not saying Grant sucks, I just think that's a legitimate question that I haven't been able to figure out an answer to.

eazyb81
04-25-2006, 01:14 PM
My only thing is:

If Grant really is good, why did the Saints feel the need to draft Will Smith?

I'm not saying Grant sucks, I just think that's a legitimate question that I haven't been able to figure out an answer to.

Maybe it was purely a value pick.

Did we draft LJ because we thought Priest sucked? I know there were other circumstances involved, but that's how an outsider could view it.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 01:28 PM
My only thing is:

If Grant really is good, why did the Saints feel the need to draft Will Smith?

I'm not saying Grant sucks, I just think that's a legitimate question that I haven't been able to figure out an answer to.Because Darren Howard had been battling injuries and had declining production. Then he had a big rebound year in Will Smith's rookie year.

Plus, Smith easily could have been a BAA pick.

Dunit35
04-25-2006, 01:29 PM
Kiper just said Tamba Hali will be the biggest steal of the draft.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:37 PM
Because Darren Howard had been battling injuries and had declining production. Then he had a big rebound year in Will Smith's rookie year.

Plus, Smith easily could have been a BAA pick.

That makes sense.

Still, I can't think of a single team that's traded away more 1st-day draft picks for "established" players than the Chiefs have since 1990.

It obviously doesn't work.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 01:44 PM
It obviously doesn't work.As if drafting does...

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:49 PM
As if drafting does...

Maybe the changes in the front office will help? At the very least, we could just try one year to keep all of our draft picks and give it a shot...

Chiefnj
04-25-2006, 01:52 PM
That makes sense.

Still, I can't think of a single team that's traded away more 1st-day draft picks for "established" players than the Chiefs have since 1990.

It obviously doesn't work.

Really?? I thought it was working great - Green, Roaf and Surtain. Some of the best players on the team.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:56 PM
Really?? I thought it was working great - Green, Roaf and Surtain. Some of the best players on the team.

Green and Roaf were certainly successes individually, but how many playoff games have we won?

I'm not ready to declare the Surtain trade a success yet. The defense last year was STILL horrible, and Surtain gave up his share of big plays.

I'm also thinking back to all the bad ones we had in between Montana and Green -- Victor Bailey comes to mind.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 01:56 PM
Kiper just said Tamba Hali will be the biggest steal of the draft.

Pretty stupid comment until he gets drafted.

"Biggest steal of the draft".... if the Chiefs take him at #20? My nut sack.

If someone jumps on him in the middle part of round three?

Sure, i'll buy it.

ct
04-25-2006, 02:06 PM
Pretty stupid comment until he gets drafted.

"Biggest steal of the draft".... if the Chiefs take him at #20? My nut sack.

If someone jumps on him in the middle part of round three?

Sure, i'll buy it.

I agree there, but we need the context. If indeed Hali falls very much into the 2nd round, then I agree he may very well be the steal of the draft. But say KC takes him at 20, that's hardly a steal. Frankly, seems right about where he should be to me.

Side not, anybody notice when you quote King, everything that follows is bolded? The less-than sign must whack out the html tagging.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 02:15 PM
I agree there, but we need the context. If indeed Hali falls very much into the 2nd round, then I agree he may very well be the steal of the draft. But say KC takes him at 20, that's hardly a steal. Frankly, seems right about where he should be to me.

Side not, anybody notice when you quote King, everything that follows is bolded? The less-than sign must whack out the html tagging.

Exactly. He probably said he'd be the steal of the draft precisely because he thinks teams will let him slide to the 2nd round or later.

And I mentioned to King to change his username and of course, he ignored me.

CupidStunt
04-25-2006, 03:22 PM
And I mentioned to King to change his username and of course, he ignored me.

:hmmm:

I must have missed it.

ct
04-25-2006, 04:03 PM
:hmmm:

I must have missed it.

>If you did that on purpose, then personally, I think it's brilliant!!

edits: just testing

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 05:08 PM
:hmmm:

I must have missed it.

Sorry, it was buried in a response to you the other day, I can see why you missed it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3157878&highlight=username#post3157878

So, would you be interested in changing it, please?

The Bad Guy
04-25-2006, 11:24 PM
I don't get this whole.."it doesn't fit in the cover 2 scheme" thing.

We aren't running cover 2 exclusively. The Jets never ran cover 2 exclusively with Herm there and he said 4-3 would be our base defense.

Grant has above average pass rush skills. He has averaged 7.5 sacks each year and that's with his 2.5 sack season from last year included. He had back-to-back 10 sack seasons.

A 290-pound pass rusher to go opposite Allen?

That's worth a 3rd rounder to me. Get Hicks off the field. Get two guys who could get after the QB.

I didn't watch any Saints games last year, but the year before, I watched a few for fantasy purposes and Grant dominated the Rams game I saw.

He's only 27 right now too.

It's a no-brainer for me. The team needs help up front. Grant certainly provides that.

Dunit35
04-26-2006, 05:47 AM
Exactly. He probably said he'd be the steal of the draft precisely because he thinks teams will let him slide to the 2nd round or later.

And I mentioned to King to change his username and of course, he ignored me.


If I remember right he said he'd be a late first rounder to a 2nd rounder.