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shaneo69
04-25-2006, 12:38 PM
GRETZ: DRAFT WEEK - What's Happened to the Chiefs Defense
Apr 25, 2006, 5:06:09 AM by Bob Gretz

Most of the NFL’s best defenses have been built through the draft. The Chiefs have tried that.

Most of the league’s top 10 defensive units have used free agency to fill in weak spots on their defensive roster. The Chiefs have tried that.

Among the NFL’s better defenses, early round draft choices have lifted them to the top of the league. The Chiefs have tried that as well.

So what hasn’t worked? Why have the Chiefs been unable to get production and excellence out of their defense over the last six years, when they’ve been following the same patterns of many franchises when it comes to building successful defenses?

It’s come down to this: poor personnel decisions, especially in the draft and especially with defensive linemen. The Chiefs do not have enough top draft picks among their regular defensive players and they do not have enough playmakers.

The NFL’s personnel equation has four parts:

A. Accurate evaluation of talent and its potential to grow.

B. Selection of that talent whether through the draft, trade or free agency for the appropriate price, whether in dollars, draft choices or other compensation.

C. Development of that talent so there is productive playing time.

D. Development of that talent so it lifts the team into contention for a championship and individual players to post-season honors.

The Chiefs have had problems in all four areas when it comes to defensive players. Obviously, they’ve been unable to fully reach the fourth factor, as they’ve had just one post-season game and one defensive Pro Bowl berth (S Jerome Woods in ‘03) over the six seasons of the 21st Century.

Most of the defensive problems have been in the draft. Inaccurate evaluations dot the team’s selections in the last six seasons. The Chiefs have devoted 10 first-day picks to the defensive side of the ball in that time. But only four of those first-day players were starters at the end of last season: DT Ryan Sims (1st in 2002), LB Kawika Mitchell (2nd in 2003), LB Derrick Johnson (1st in 2005) and S Greg Wesley (3rd in 2001.)

The biggest failures have come on the defensive line, where first days picks were used on Eric Downing (3rd in 2001), Sims, Eddie Freeman (2nd in 2002) and Junior Siavii (2nd in 2004.) Downing and Freeman showed flashes in their rookie seasons. Downing started nine games, had 36 tackles and 1.5 sacks in 2001. Freeman had four sacks in 15 games with 31 tackles in 2002. Both then disappeared off the depth charts, were never factors again for the Chiefs and did nothing when they moved on to other NFL teams. Freeman is currently on the Chiefs roster, trying to resurrect his career in NFL Europe. Siavii has not been a consistent or productive player. Sims has battled injuries and his own inconsistency and would have to be classified a disappointment given his status as the sixth pick of the ‘02 NFL Draft.

In all the Chiefs have used nine draft choices on defensive linemen and only Sims and Jared Allen (4th in 2004) were in the starting lineup last year. Only Allen has made any real mark on the field.

The Chiefs have been better at linebacker, using three first-day picks at that position. Mitchell and Johnson were both starters and productive players last season. Keyaron Fox, another first day pick (3rd in 2004) was much improved in his second season before his season ended with a knee injury.

But the secondary has been another problem area for the Chiefs, with three first-day picks. Only one was in the starting lineup last year: Wesley. The other first day picks were CB/S William Bartee (2nd in 2000) and CB Julian Battle (3rd in 2003.) Bartee has never shown the ability to be a consistent and productive starter at either cornerback or safety, thus his status as a second-round pick must be questioned. Battle produced nothing for two years and then missed last season with an injury he suffered in mini-camp.

Among the league’s top 10 defenses, none had fewer than six first-day picks and they averaged 7.5 among their 14 major players. The Chiefs had just five last year: the four they selected and CB Patrick Surtain (2nd in 1998 by Miami.)

Problems in evaluation and development along the defensive line and secondary created holes in the defensive roster, forcing the Chiefs to seek help in free agency and trades with starters signed there at defensive tackle (Lional Dalton), linebacker (Kendrell Bell), cornerback (Surtain) and safety (Sammy Knight.) Getting Surtain cost the Chiefs a second-round draft choice and the richest contract in club history.

Among the 14 major contributors on defense are four players who were never drafted coming into the league: DE Eric Hicks, Dalton, Knight and nickel CB Benny Sapp. Among the league’s top defenses, the average was only two undrafted players among their major contributors. Only Seattle (No. 8) matched the Chiefs number of four.

It’s certainly true in the NFL that it doesn’t matter where you start, but how you finish when it comes to leaving a mark as a player. But it’s also true that talent produces victories and championships, and the odds are always better on getting talented players in the first day of the draft than among the undrafted players.

With some exceptions (Allen, Mitchell, Johnson) the Chiefs have not gotten immediate contribution from their rookie defensive players. Until Johnson came along last year, defensive draft picks never consistently got on the field as rookies at the start of the season. In 2002, Sims was injured early in the season and Freeman saw limited defensive snaps. Mitchell (six starts late in the year when Mike Maslowski was injured) and Battle (no starts) saw almost no defensive action as rookies in 2003. The next year, Siavii got limited playing time and Fox played in only one game on defense. Allen eventually became a starter at mid-season. None of those rookies played for an established, highly ranked defensive unit, so it wasn’t like there were superstars playing ahead of them.

The Chiefs have undergone some serious changes in their personnel chain coming into this season’s draft. Bill Kuharich is now in charge of the personnel department and leading the draft preparations. Herman Edwards is a coach with a defensive background and mindset. He’s also made it very plain that he plans to play young players and play them early. Gunther Cunningham remains as defensive coordinator, but he now has a coaching staff that’s closer to his defensive mentality. They must break the cycle of defensive disappointments in the draft and development.

Balance is the key to success in any endeavor. The Chiefs cannot afford to forget about offense in this weekend’s NFL Draft. But their past and their immediate future indicate they need to concentrate on defense early in this draft and in total.

The Chiefs took a big step on defense last year. They have not been given enough credit for the overall improvement and the production that did come from the likes of Johnson, Mitchell, Allen and Surtain.

But that defense needs to take another step this year if they are to be taken seriously as a contender. With continued growth among the returning players and some talented newcomers, maybe next year other teams will be looking at how the Chiefs were able to rebuild their defense into one of the best in the league.

(Coming Wednesday: So you think the Chiefs have done a bad job drafting overall under Carl Peterson? Think again.)


http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2006/04/25/gretz_draft_week__whats_happened_to_the_chiefs_defense/

shaneo69
04-25-2006, 12:40 PM
I almost thought Gretz was blaming Peterson for the bad personnel decisions as I read this article, but then I read the paragraph where he takes subtle digs at Stiles, Vermiel, and the defensive coaches.

So Carl is still safe.

Donger
04-25-2006, 12:44 PM
With continued growth among the returning players and some talented newcomers, maybe next year other teams will be looking at how the Chiefs were able to rebuild their defense into one of the best in the league.

No way. Chiefs fans have exclusive rights to that expression.

StcChief
04-25-2006, 12:48 PM
Peterson, Lamar still have final say.....

hopefully the new brain trust in mgmt/ coaches will be better at player evaluation.....

But could you imagine if we took a D player instead of LJ now.......

MOhillbilly
04-25-2006, 12:48 PM
blah blah blah **** carl where he wipes w/ C-notes!!!!

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 12:50 PM
The one time Carl overruled Vermeil we got Larry Johnson.

Carl IS to blame...for hiring Vermeil.

shaneo69
04-25-2006, 12:54 PM
Carl IS to blame...for hiring Vermeil.

...and Stiles.

FAX
04-25-2006, 12:55 PM
How can Carl Peterson not be to blame? He is responsible. Those with responsibility must accept blame ... even for things that are not directly their fault.

Remember. Guns don't kill people. Holes do.

FAX

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 12:58 PM
...and Stiles.

Yep.

If they had won a Super Bowl, Carl would have taken a bow and talked about how great he was for hiring a known Super Bowl coach in Vermeil.

Instead, he waits until his "friend" is gone to blame all of the team's problems on the guy that's gone.

**** Carl.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-25-2006, 12:58 PM
This is bullcrap. It's all of them, not just one person. Carl is just as much to blame as anyone else. This is just more taking up for the guy that can get the job done after being there for 17 years. Any other organization would've fired him by now, ticket sales or no ticket sales.

jspchief
04-25-2006, 01:01 PM
I didn't read it as making excuses for Carl as much as just trying to give us hope that things will get better un that department.

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 01:14 PM
I didn't read it as making excuses for Carl as much as just trying to give us hope that things will get better un that department.

I hope you're right.

Amnorix
04-25-2006, 01:19 PM
err....I recall a Missourian who had the right phrase -- the Buck Stops Here.

That definitely applies when it comes to NFL GMs...

KCTitus
04-25-2006, 01:21 PM
I missed all the blaming part, but again, I only read the bolded parts and skimmed the rest.

Will the FO and coaching changes help the draft? I hope so, but being from MO, I'll believe it when I see it.

CosmicPal
04-25-2006, 01:31 PM
In defense (no pun intended) of this article, the Chiefs haven't exactly had a lot of picks in the first 10-15 picks of the draft. Sims and Derrick Johnson are of the exceptions. Defensive tackles are always a crapshoot in this league- some have the massive body and good conditioning skills, but they slack off on too many plays or get frustrated having to be double-teamed all the time just so they can open up holes for the DE or LB's blitzing.

In the 90's, they have been a perennial playoff team and were usually drafting in the mid to late rounds of the draft. Just like ALL other teams, they've blown their chances at snatching up a better talent at their pick. But, they've also been hurt by injuries, poor coaches, and a simple lack of drive to get better.

I'm glad Stiles is gone and Edwards is our new coach. I expect this to a defensive minded draft for us, and I expect them NOT to make too many reaches in this draft. A few solid choices in the first half of the draft will go a long ways to making things better.

Radar Chief
04-25-2006, 01:31 PM
blah blah blah **** carl where he wipes w/ C-notes!!!!

:LOL: :banghead:

hawkchief
04-25-2006, 02:43 PM
This is a big surprise. Carl signs Gretz' paycheck.

Big Carl wants all the recognition when the draft goes well (rarely), and enjoys letting the whole world know that he has the final decision, yet he is unwilling to accept responsiblity for all of the bad draft picks this organization has had. Typical CP BS.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2006, 03:36 PM
In defense (no pun intended) of this article, the Chiefs haven't exactly had a lot of picks in the first 10-15 picks of the draft. Sims and Derrick Johnson are of the exceptions. Defensive tackles are always a crapshoot in this league- some have the massive body and good conditioning skills, but they slack off on too many plays or get frustrated having to be double-teamed all the time just so they can open up holes for the DE or LB's blitzing.

.

The Steelers haven't had many top 10 picks, yet they are constantly in the playoffs despite losing a lot of key players each year.

That is an excuse.

You can get good players from 10 on. The one pick they had in the top 10, they screwed the pooch on.

HC_Chief
04-25-2006, 03:50 PM
How can Carl Peterson not be to blame? He is responsible. Those with responsibility must accept blame ... even for things that are not directly their fault.

Correct. You can bet your ass CP will be the first in line to proclaim a "success". You have to take the good with the bad. Unfortunately for KC fans, the Chiefs' braintrust loves to take credit for the good while pointing fingers elsewhere with the bad. IMHO that "pass the buck" mentality has permeated the entire organization; all the way down to the players. "Not <i>my</i> fault an assignment was missed." "Not <i>my</i> fault I dropped a pass."

htismaqe
04-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Correct. You can bet your ass CP will be the first in line to proclaim a "success". You have to take the good with the bad. Unfortunately for KC fans, the Chiefs' braintrust loves to take credit for the good while pointing fingers elsewhere with the bad. IMHO that "pass the buck" mentality has permeated the entire organization; all the way down to the players. "Not <i>my</i> fault an assignment was missed." "Not <i>my</i> fault I dropped a pass."

:clap:

CoMoChief
04-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Peterson, Lamar still have final say.....

hopefully the new brain trust in mgmt/ coaches will be better at player evaluation.....

But could you imagine if we took a D player instead of LJ now.......



LJ is a great back and everything, but lets be real here. Our Oline is so good that any decent HB will be sucessful in our running game. If we took a defensive player instead of LJ, we would still have Derrick Blaylock on our team, and I bet he wouldve done just fine when Priest was out, he showed what he could do when he did play. Then it was a matter of time before LJ got on the field. That being said, I am not complaining that we drafted LJ instead because it turned out to be a gem. But our defense is too shitty to let the "drafting LJ in 2003" band-aid heal that up.

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2006, 05:09 PM
Looks like Gretz reads Warpaint Illustrated.

Mr. Laz
04-25-2006, 05:13 PM
didn't we just see stuff for the last few days about how Carl has the final draft say ... blah,blah,blah

Carl chooses to give his coaches whatever power they have
carl hired Vermeil
Carl approve Greg robinson
Carl brought back Goonther
carl kept stiles and all the scouts
carl chose to re-sign woods,hicks,wesley



what happen to the buck stops at carl's desk?

SNR
04-25-2006, 05:15 PM
LJ is a great back and everything, but lets be real here. Our Oline is so good that any decent HB will be sucessful in our running game. If we took a defensive player instead of LJ, we would still have Derrick Blaylock on our team, and I bet he wouldve done just fine when Priest was out, he showed what he could do when he did play. Then it was a matter of time before LJ got on the field. That being said, I am not complaining that we drafted LJ instead because it turned out to be a gem. But our defense is too shitty to let the "drafting LJ in 2003" band-aid heal that up.Yep. Mike Cloud really ran wild when he replaced Priest at the end of 2002

tiptap
04-25-2006, 05:47 PM
Look the real collapse of the Chiefs goes back to the death of Thomas. We lost the play maker off a declining team. The result was a real collapse. Vermeil, great at evaluating offesive talent, got that side of the football team going.
But the defensive side got Bush, a bust at LB, so much so that Fujita got the nod mid season. And while Patton was a man at the highth of his tenure he had lost the range playing the middle in KC. With no real help at the OLB positions and with no real DL push during play passes (DT dead) it was live by the score and die by the score.

We been trying to claw our way back ever since on the defensive side. Trying to fill every level. We now have a descent LB corp, a much improved secondary (at least if one more CB can be found) and a small chance to see the DL play improve depending on how healthy the line is. We can't afford the injuries there at all. And we will have to do it without a real playmaker (though Allen comes close).

Otter
04-25-2006, 06:39 PM
Carl has become Cousin Eddie from National Lampoons Vacation.

Otter
04-25-2006, 06:42 PM
Look the real collapse of the Chiefs goes back to the death of Thomas. We lost the play maker off a declining team. The result was a real collapse. Vermeil, great at evaluating offesive talent, got that side of the football team going.
But the defensive side got Bush, a bust at LB, so much so that Fujita got the nod mid season. And while Patton was a man at the highth of his tenure he had lost the range playing the middle in KC. With no real help at the OLB positions and with no real DL push during play passes (DT dead) it was live by the score and die by the score.

We been trying to claw our way back ever since on the defensive side. Trying to fill every level. We now have a descent LB corp, a much improved secondary (at least if one more CB can be found) and a small chance to see the DL play improve depending on how healthy the line is. We can't afford the injuries there at all. And we will have to do it without a real playmaker (though Allen comes close).

A good team would have "won one for the gipper". Chiefs didn't have "it" and still don't. Get used to it.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 06:50 PM
All of the fans(?) of the Chiefs come out and attack the GM because he has not been able to win the SB. His record before the Chiefs was pretty impressive so everyone had their McDonalds mentality regarding success.

Did you want to fire your mother and father when you failed to achieve something as you grew up? Or worse, did you want to kill them or something? What you did as a youth was all on you and in much the same manner CP assembled a team and turned them over to coaches that could not do the job.

If CP would have gotten a second head coach to back up marty we would have won at least two superbowl in the first 10 years he was there. Carl could not go to the field and coach the team. What was it? Six out of seven years in the playoffs and Marty choked each and every time!

Yep, the Chiefs didn't win the Super Bowl because Carl Peterson couldn't build a team that could do it.

Mr. Laz
04-25-2006, 07:39 PM
Look the real collapse of the Chiefs goes back to the death of Thomas. We lost the play maker off a declining team.

if the loss of 1 player destroys your team then it wasn't really there anyway.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-25-2006, 07:51 PM
All of the fans(?) of the Chiefs come out and attack the GM because he has not been able to win the SB. His record before the Chiefs was pretty impressive so everyone had their McDonalds mentality regarding success.

Did you want to fire your mother and father when you failed to achieve something as you grew up? Or worse, did you want to kill them or something? What you did as a youth was all on you and in much the same manner CP assembled a team and turned them over to coaches that could not do the job.

If CP would have gotten a second head coach to back up marty we would have won at least two superbowl in the first 10 years he was there. Carl could not go to the field and coach the team. What was it? Six out of seven years in the playoffs and Marty choked each and every time!

Yep, the Chiefs didn't win the Super Bowl because Carl Peterson couldn't build a team that could do it.

Mothers, fathers, McDonalds...WTF are you smoking?

The main thing is the main thing...the Super Bowl. He should've been fired or quit a long time ago. But we have an A.O.Ked Mediocrity approval stamped owner.

milkman
04-25-2006, 07:59 PM
The one time Carl overruled Vermeil we got Larry Johnson.

Carl IS to blame...for hiring Vermeil.

And Marty, and Gunt.

Carl refuses to take a risk in hiring a coach.

He wants someone with experience, or in Gunt's case, someone to man the wheel.

Now there's Herm.

Only time will tell if he has any more success than those he is following.

But I have very little hope.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 08:32 PM
Mothers, fathers, McDonalds...WTF are you smoking?

The main thing is the main thing...the Super Bowl. He should've been fired or quit a long time ago. But we have an A.O.Ked Mediocrity approval stamped owner.

It's people like you that tend to take the fun out of profesional sports.

You can't handle not winning the SB. That is the bottom line.

Your mother and father are who are responsible for you being here, I'm sure that you have disappointed them in the past. Should they be fired?

You are one of the people that have the McDonalds mentality, you want it and you want it now.

Just in case you haven't been paying attention there are 32 teams in the NFL. They are all attempting to get to one game every year. The odds are against just about every team. The odds on favorite last year didn't make it to the game, should they fire their coach and GM?

Apparently you did not survive the years between 1972 and 1988 when the Chiefs made the playoffs one time and their record over those years was abysmal.

At the very least CP brought respectability back to KC and even though they don't meet your expectations they are a vastly better team than we had in any of the years between 1972 and 1988.

I don't like not getting to the SB, but I have a more realistic outlook on what we are considering, it's a game of entertainment. If you can't live with the fact that only two teams get to the game and the odds are against the Chiefs for whatever reason you need to re-evaluate your life.

milkman
04-25-2006, 08:43 PM
It's people like you that tend to take the fun out of profesional sports.

You can't handle not winning the SB. That is the bottom line.

Your mother and father are who are responsible for you being here, I'm sure that you have disappointed them in the past. Should they be fired?

You are one of the people that have the McDonalds mentality, you want it and you want it now.

Just in case you haven't been paying attention there are 32 teams in the NFL. They are all attempting to get to one game every year. The odds are against just about every team. The odds on favorite last year didn't make it to the game, should they fire their coach and GM?

Apparently you did not survive the years between 1972 and 1988 when the Chiefs made the playoffs one time and their record over those years was abysmal.

At the very least CP brought respectability back to KC and even though they don't meet your expectations they are a vastly better team than we had in any of the years between 1972 and 1988.

I don't like not getting to the SB, but I have a more realistic outlook on what we are considering, it's a game of entertainment. If you can't live with the fact that only two teams get to the game and the odds are against the Chiefs for whatever reason you need to re-evaluate your life.

You are a ****ing idiot.

BigRedChief
04-25-2006, 08:52 PM
I don't even think a blowtorch will be good enough to remove his lips from King Carl's backside anymore.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 09:11 PM
You are a ****ing idiot.

Actually you seem to be a whiney bastard that needs someone else to do something for you to feel accomplished.

Football is a fu cking game, learn to live with it.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-25-2006, 09:16 PM
Actually you seem to be a whiney bastard that needs someone else to do something for you to feel accomplished.

Football is a fu cking game, learn to live with it.

Yes, it's a game. And the object of the game is to win..win CHAMPIONSHIPS. That's why they play the game, that's why we watch it...in hope that we win the Super Bowl one of these lifetimes again. Ask any pro player, they'll tell you. It's not about entertainment, although Carl and company disagree, it's about Super Bowl trophies.

milkman
04-25-2006, 09:27 PM
Actually you seem to be a whiney bastard that needs someone else to do something for you to feel accomplished.

Football is a fu cking game, learn to live with it.

And you're a Carl sucking little bitch, who's greatest satisfaction comes when nothing gets accomplished.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:08 PM
And you're a Carl sucking little bitch, who's greatest satisfaction comes when nothing gets accomplished.

I guess that you fell better now?

It's a fu cking game. Learn to live with that one little fact.

If the game drives your life and emotions beyond logic you are screwed.

Slipsider, you are screwed.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:13 PM
Yes, it's a game. And the object of the game is to win..win CHAMPIONSHIPS. That's why they play the game, that's why we watch it...in hope that we win the Super Bowl one of these lifetimes again. Ask any pro player, they'll tell you. It's not about entertainment, although Carl and company disagree, it's about Super Bowl trophies.

You really believe that don't you?

What will you do when Carl retires/gets fired as you wish, and the next guy couldn't field a good booger for his kleenix? You'll be wishing for the days when at least the Chiefs had a chance.

Do you blame Carl for Marty choking in every playoff game he coached? The personnel were there, and the regular season records were there.

Why is it that 32 teams go for the game?

As for your comment about the players, I have some reservations about the committment of some of the players around the league. Every team has their own problem children, but you could name just as many players that are a little less committed to winning than the rest of the team. People like T.O. who thinks the game is all about them.

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2006, 10:16 PM
I dont blame Carl. I blame Lamar for not firing him sooner.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:33 PM
I dont blame Carl. I blame Lamar for not firing him sooner.

Why kill the golden goose?

What did Carl do wrong? Increase the average number of wins on a continual basis? Increase the attendance to the Chiefs games? Put money in Lamar's pocket?

Your viewpoint is surely not the same as Lamar's. If you pocket book is as large as Lamar's why don't you buy the Chiefs and fire Carl and replace him with football wizards on this board. I'm sure you'll wind the SB in your lifetime.

Face it, Carl has forgotten more about football operations than all of us have ever known collectively.

If you fire Carl, who are you going to replace him with? Sad Sack? or maybe Charlie Brown?

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2006, 10:36 PM
Carl promoted Gunther.

Mistake 1.

Carl hired Dick.

Mistake 2.

Carl re-hired Gunther.

Mistake 3.

Carl hired Herm.

Mistake 4?

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:41 PM
Carl promoted Gunther.

Mistake 1.

Carl hired Dick.

Mistake 2.

Carl re-hired Gunther.

Mistake 3.

Carl hired Herm.

Mistake 4?

So what you are saying is that regardless of what Carl does it's wrong.

I guess you aren't hard to please.

I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with you in your profession, nothing is ever good enough. Either that or your boss is the asshole that can't accept anything you do so you have to pawn off your failures on Carl.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:43 PM
Carl D. Peterson grew up in Long Beach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach%2C_California), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California), and is an alumnus of the University of California, Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California%2C_Los_Angeles). He is the president, general manager, and chief executive officer of the Kansas City Chiefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs) of the National Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League). He has served in those roles since 1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989). Peterson has hired four coaches for the Chiefs since 1989, Marty Schottenheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Schottenheimer), Gunther Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Cunningham), Dick Vermeil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Vermeil) and most recently Herman Edwards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Edwards).


Peterson has been both praised and criticized by Kansas City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City) fans. He has been praised for hiring in quality coaches, and re-establishing a winning tradition for the Chiefs that greatly diminished in the 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s). He has been criticized because the Chiefs have yet to win a Super Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl) during his tenure, despite having some spectacular teams in the 1990s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s). Some also feel that Peterson is more concerned about game-day attendance and making the Chiefs profitable than he is about winning. Also, some fans dislike the fact that Peterson has held his current job for over 17 years, which is considerably longer than most other NFL general managers.

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2006, 10:44 PM
So what you are saying is that regardless of what Carl does it's wrong.


What? Carl made some pretty good hiring decisions in his first 10 years here. Get a clue. He resurrected the franchise and for that I am grateful. He's not the man to get us over the hump. He's only interested in hiring his retread buddies.

Halfcan
04-25-2006, 10:45 PM
Okay I will admit it. The shitty defense is my fault. :banghead: I sent Carl a list of players the last ten years, so I am to blame. Please don't blame Carl.

Dammit Halfcan :cuss:

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 10:50 PM
What? Carl made some pretty good hiring decisions in his first 10 years here. Get a clue. He resurrected the franchise and for that I am grateful. He's not the man to get us over the hump. He's only interested in hiring his retread buddies.

Then apply for his ****ing job. I'm sure you feel that you could do better. facts are that the chiefs would suck with you at the helm.

JBucc
04-25-2006, 10:52 PM
Then apply for his ****ing job. I'm sure you feel that you could do better. facts are that the chiefs would suck with you at the helm.So the fact that GoChiefs sucks is reason for us to keep Carl even though we're just running in circles as a franchise?

jspchief
04-25-2006, 10:56 PM
I still don't see anywhere in this article where Gretz is saying it's not Carl's fault.

Chiefs Express
04-25-2006, 11:01 PM
So the fact that GoChiefs sucks is reason for us to keep Carl even though we're just running in circles as a franchise?

Recommend someone that is available that you consider better.

Tribal Warfare
04-25-2006, 11:02 PM
Carl not to blame for poor defensive personnel decisions


*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

Count Alex's Losses
04-25-2006, 11:06 PM
Then apply for his ****ing job. I'm sure you feel that you could do better. facts are that the chiefs would suck with you at the helm.

ROFL

So I should apply for his job because I know he sucks?

Maybe I should try out for the Royals pitching staff next year. ROFL