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KevB
04-27-2006, 10:20 AM
GBN's last mock (http://www.gbnreport.com/2006projection.html)

Chiefs picks:

1. Tye Hill, CB
2. Darryl Tapp, DE
3. Hank Baskett, WR

I love the first two picks, Baskett not so much. They actually have DT Rod Wright going a few picks after Baskett in the 3rd. If we added Rod Wright to the first two picks above, I'll be walking on clouds for a week.

Kclee
04-27-2006, 10:23 AM
I like Baskett. Reminds me of Keyshawn. Baskett loves to block and he's a big target.

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:26 AM
yuck.

I really can't see KC taking Tye Hill, he isn't a good fit for the scheme Herm wants to run.

Baskett would be okay, I like his size.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:26 AM
i could deal with that... like Kev i would prefer Wright over Basket in Rd 3.

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 10:26 AM
I'd be elated with the first two picks, but if they were to take a DT in the third as you suggested, I'd rather they pick up Babatunde Oshinowo
from Stanford. I wouldn't be disappointed with Baskett though, but Kellen Clemmens QB would be a steal at the third round too- but, we know Carl won't be doing something as smart as that.

chagrin
04-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Hey guys real quick, I am just wanting to know - what is it about Tye hill that doesn't fit with KC? I am way out of the loop on the players this year

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:30 AM
Hey guys real quick, I am just wanting to know - what is it about Tye hill that doesn't fit with KC? I am way out of the loop on the players this year

he's 5'9"

chagrin
04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
Okay, so he's short - I get that, but is he not very active when going for the ball as well?

Kclee
04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
I forgot about Basketts spinal injury, but here is his bio.

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/position/WR/baskett-h.html

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
Hey guys real quick, I am just wanting to know - what is it about Tye hill that doesn't fit with KC? I am way out of the loop on the players this year

Herm Edwards has a Cover 2 background and will probably want to start acquiring players that fit in that scheme. The Cover 2 uses bigger CBs, so Hill would not be a good fit at all for that scheme.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:32 AM
Okay, so he's short - I get that, but is he not very active when going for the ball as well?
he's got good ball skills ... quick feet


the only problem that i know of is his size

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 10:33 AM
Okay, so he's short - I get that, but is he not very active when going for the ball as well?

He's a great open field tackler- ahem- something we really need.

***** all the measureables- the guy is a player! He makes tackles, he defends the pass well, and he has great speed to blitz. The Chiefs would score a solid CB should they draft him.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:40 AM
The Cover 2 uses bigger CBs,
Hardly

tampa bay:

Ronde Barber Pos: DB Height: 5-10 Weight: 184
Brian Kelly Pos: DB Height: 5-11 Weight: 193
Dexter Jackson Pos: FS Height: 6-0 Weight: 210
Jermaine Phillips Pos: SS Height: 6-1 Weight: 214

NY JETS

Ty Law Position: DB Height: 5-11 Weight: 200
Andre Dyson Position: DB Height: 5-10 Weight: 183
Erik Coleman Position: FS Height: 5-10 Weight: 200
Kerry Rhodes Position: SS Height: 6-2 Weight: 210


Hill is an inch shorter and 5/10 lbs lighter than average. The weight will come naturally with age.

Ty Hill Position: DB Height: 5-9 1/2 Weight: 190

ct
04-27-2006, 10:41 AM
I hate it!

Tye Hill probably will be a fine player, but not with Herm as our head coach.
Tapp just doesn't project to the pros for me, very slow, undersized, short, can't fit as a DE, can't fit as a LB, so WTF ya gonna do with that?
Never heard of Baskett, so have to defer opinion on that pick.

EDIT: Nice Bio, anyone know anymore about that back injury?

NFLDraftCountdown

Hank Baskett | New Mexico | Wide Receiver | Senior
Height: 6-2 7/8 | Weight: 224 | 40-Time: 4.49

Official Bio

Strengths:
Has tremendous size...Very physical and knows how to use his big frame...Is an excellent natural athlete...Has great hands...Will routinely make the spectacular reception...Great leaper who was the 2004 Mountain West Conference outdoor high jump champion...Can be a major threat in the red zone...Has excellent body control...Runs well after the catch...Plays faster on the field than he times.

Weaknesses:
Does not have elite speed or quickness...Is not much of a deep threat and won't run away from pro defensive backs...Needs to round out his game and refine his technique...Is not as good of a blocker as a guy his size should be...Has some trouble beating the jam at the line...Can run better routes...Missed some time as a freshman with a spinal injury that will need to be checked out by the doctors.

Notes:
Doesn't get the attention he deserves as one of the premier senior wideouts in the nation...Has everything you look for except pure speed and is a bit of a big school sleeper...Could potentially be a #1 receiving target at the next level.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 10:42 AM
he's got good ball skills ... quick feet


the only problem that i know of is his size

Which means Dumbther won't like him...

jiveturkey
04-27-2006, 10:42 AM
I also thought that cover 2 usually included smaller quicker CB's.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 10:45 AM
I hate it!

Tye Hill probably will be a fine player, but not with Herm as our head coach.
Tapp just doesn't project to the pros for me, very slow, undersized, short, can't fit as a DE, can't fit as a LB, so WTF ya gonna do with that?
Never heard of Baskett, so have to defer opinion on that pick.

I think it's time to clear up some misconceptions about Tapp being small and slow.

Here's Tapp compared to 20 of the top other DE prospects in the draft:

*Mario Williams 6-7, 295 4.70 North Carolina State
Kamerion Wimbley 6-3, 245 4.61 Florida State (OLB)
Manny Lawson 6-4, 241 4.41 North Carolina State (OLB)
Mathias Kiwanuka 6-6, 266 4.70 Boston College
Tamba Hali 6-3, 275 4.75 Penn State
Darryl Tapp 6-2, 252 4.82 Virginia Tech
Mark Anderson 6-4, 254 4.61 Alabama
Victor Adeyanju 6-4, 274 4.85 Indiana
*Ray Edwards 6-5, 273 4.81 Purdue
*Stanley McClover 6-2, 262 4.70 Auburn

Julian Jenkins 6-4, 277 5.03 Stanford
Parys Haralson 6-1, 253 4.80 Tennessee
James Wyche 6-5, 262 4.63 Syracuse
Jason Hatcher 6-6, 285 4.82 Grambling
Eric Henderson 6-2, 270 4.75 Georgia Tech (X)
Jeremy Mincey 6-3, 262 4.76 Florida

Rob Ninkovich 6-3, 260 4.90 Purdue
Chris Gocong 6-2, 263 4.70 Cal Poly (OLB)

Elvis Dumervil 5-11, 258 4.75 Louisville
Ryan LaCasse 6-2, 257 4.62 Syracuse (OLB)

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:46 AM
Hardly

tampa bay:

Ronde Barber Pos: DB Height: 5-10 Weight: 184
Brian Kelly Pos: DB Height: 5-11 Weight: 193
Dexter Jackson Pos: FS Height: 6-0 Weight: 210
Jermaine Phillips Pos: SS Height: 6-1 Weight: 214

NY JETS

Ty Law Position: DB Height: 5-11 Weight: 200
Andre Dyson Position: DB Height: 5-10 Weight: 183
Erik Coleman Position: FS Height: 5-10 Weight: 200
Kerry Rhodes Position: SS Height: 6-2 Weight: 210


Hill is an inch shorter and 5/10 lbs lighter than average. The weight will come naturally with age.

Ty Hill Position: DB Height: 5-9 Weight: 190

Maybe I missed something, but all those guys are bigger than Tye Hill....what are you trying to prove?

I never said the Cover 2 requires guys 7 feet tall, but ideally you want bigger corners in a Cover 2 scheme....do you disagree with that?

FYI, Jets aren't running a Cover 2 this year, and Dyson wasn't in NY last year.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:47 AM
I also thought that cover 2 usually included smaller quicker CB's.

it does imo...

you need guys that can settle into a zone who are quick enough to read the pass and break up the pass.


quickness ... imo that's been our problem for a long time. we've gone for speed and size but without quickness in and out of breaks you're screwed.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:48 AM
Maybe I missed something, but all those guys are bigger than Tye Hill....what are you trying to prove?.

dude, they are all only 1 inch bigger than Hill ....... hardly significant

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:49 AM
I think it's time to clear up some misconceptions about Tapp being small and slow.

Here's Tapp compared to 20 of the top other DE prospects in the draft:

*Mario Williams 6-7, 295 4.70 North Carolina State
Kamerion Wimbley 6-3, 245 4.61 Florida State (OLB)
Manny Lawson 6-4, 241 4.41 North Carolina State (OLB)
Mathias Kiwanuka 6-6, 266 4.70 Boston College
Tamba Hali 6-3, 275 4.75 Penn State
Darryl Tapp 6-2, 252 4.82 Virginia Tech
Mark Anderson 6-4, 254 4.61 Alabama
Victor Adeyanju 6-4, 274 4.85 Indiana
*Ray Edwards 6-5, 273 4.81 Purdue
*Stanley McClover 6-2, 262 4.70 Auburn


How does that clear up anything? Tapp is slower than all but one of the top 10 DE prospects, and he is tied with another player in the top 10 as the shortest DE.

jiveturkey
04-27-2006, 10:49 AM
I never said the Cover 2 requires guys 7 feet tall, but ideally you want bigger corners in a Cover 2 scheme....do you disagree with that?I disagree.

Larger corners are usually used in bump and run schemes.

Cover 2 covers are playing in a zone so they need to be quick. Size doesn't really matter.

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:50 AM
dude, they are all only 1 inch bigger than Hill ....... hardly significant

Maybe to you, but not in the eyes of scouts.

Hey, I didn't invent the Cover 2 scheme so don't get mad at me. I like Hill, but he just isn't an ideal CB in that particular scheme.

ct
04-27-2006, 10:51 AM
I think it's time to clear up some misconceptions about Tapp being small and slow.

Here's Tapp compared to 20 of the top other DE prospects in the draft:

*Mario Williams 6-7, 295 4.70 North Carolina State
Kamerion Wimbley 6-3, 245 4.61 Florida State (OLB)
Manny Lawson 6-4, 241 4.41 North Carolina State (OLB)
Mathias Kiwanuka 6-6, 266 4.70 Boston College
Tamba Hali 6-3, 275 4.75 Penn State
Darryl Tapp 6-2, 252 4.82 Virginia Tech
Mark Anderson 6-4, 254 4.61 Alabama
Victor Adeyanju 6-4, 274 4.85 Indiana
*Ray Edwards 6-5, 273 4.81 Purdue
*Stanley McClover 6-2, 262 4.70 Auburn

Julian Jenkins 6-4, 277 5.03 Stanford
Parys Haralson 6-1, 253 4.80 Tennessee
James Wyche 6-5, 262 4.63 Syracuse
Jason Hatcher 6-6, 285 4.82 Grambling
Eric Henderson 6-2, 270 4.75 Georgia Tech (X)
Jeremy Mincey 6-3, 262 4.76 Florida

Rob Ninkovich 6-3, 260 4.90 Purdue
Chris Gocong 6-2, 263 4.70 Cal Poly (OLB)

Elvis Dumervil 5-11, 258 4.75 Louisville
Ryan LaCasse 6-2, 257 4.62 Syracuse (OLB)

Only 2 of those guys are shorter than Tapp, only 2 are lighter than Tapp, and 3 are slower than Tapp. So for the overall "measureable", he's at the bottom 3 at least of that top20.

Darryl Tapp
Height: 6-1 5/8 | Weight: 262 | 40-Time: 4.84 (actually shorter, heavier, and slower than your listings)

Official Bio

Strengths:
Very productive pass rusher at the college level...Shows great strength...Intense and has a motor that never stops...Instinctive and flows to the ball...Technically sound and knows how to use leverage to his advantage...Has a great burst and really closes well...Does a good job of adjusting in space...A team leader and hard worker with top intangibles...A playmaker who is always around the action.

Weaknesses:
Lacks ideal size in terms of height...Speed, quickness and natural athleticism are only average...Doesn't do a great job versus the run...Can be overwhelmed by larger offensive linemen...Needs to hit the weights and get stronger...Must develop a wider array of pass rush moves for the next level...Could be a classic case of a top college player whose game doesn't translate well to the pros.

Notes:
The type of player who doesn't have the measurables you look for but just makes plays once the whistle blows...Could be a controversial prospect who doesn't go nearly as high as his college press clippings would lead you to believe...You never want to underestimate someone with this guy's fire and positive attitude.

Mecca
04-27-2006, 10:52 AM
If you're gonna really sit here and say Tye Hill can't play in a cover 2 cause he's 5'9 1/2 instead of 5'10.........that's really dumb.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 10:52 AM
How does that clear up anything? Tapp is slower than all but one of the top 10 DE prospects, and he is tied with another player in the top 10 as the shortest DE.

I was hoping you weren't serious, but I guess you are.

1) Hali ran 7/10 of a second faster than Tapp. Are you trying to say that 7/10 of a second in the FORTY-YARD DASH makes a damn bit of difference for a defensive end?

2) He's TWENTY POUNDS heavier than Manny Lawson, who most here seem to think is Jesus H. Christ himself.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 10:54 AM
I disagree.

Larger corners are usually used in bump and run schemes.

Cover 2 covers are playing in a zone so they need to be quick. Size doesn't really matter.
:clap:


http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3033910/yourockcp.gif

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 10:54 AM
Only 2 of those guys are shorter than Tapp, only 2 are lighter than Tapp, and 3 are slower than Tapp. So for the overall "measureable", he's at the bottom 3 at least of that top20.

Darryl Tapp
Height: 6-1 5/8 | Weight: 262 | 40-Time: 4.84 (actually shorter, heavier, and slower than your listings)

Official Bio

Strengths:
Very productive pass rusher at the college level...Shows great strength...Intense and has a motor that never stops...Instinctive and flows to the ball...Technically sound and knows how to use leverage to his advantage...Has a great burst and really closes well...Does a good job of adjusting in space...A team leader and hard worker with top intangibles...A playmaker who is always around the action.

Weaknesses:
Lacks ideal size in terms of height...Speed, quickness and natural athleticism are only average...Doesn't do a great job versus the run...Can be overwhelmed by larger offensive linemen...Needs to hit the weights and get stronger...Must develop a wider array of pass rush moves for the next level...Could be a classic case of a top college player whose game doesn't translate well to the pros.

Notes:
The type of player who doesn't have the measurables you look for but just makes plays once the whistle blows...Could be a controversial prospect who doesn't go nearly as high as his college press clippings would lead you to believe...You never want to underestimate someone with this guy's fire and positive attitude.

1) Height by itself has absolutely ZERO to do with being a good DE.

2) 40-times for DE's are hardly relevant.

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:54 AM
I disagree.

Larger corners are usually used in bump and run schemes.

Cover 2 covers are playing in a zone so they need to be quick. Size doesn't really matter.

The Cover 2 defense is a zone scheme in which the two safeties are each responsible for a deep half of the field and the cornerbacks are responsible for covering the short, outside area. Typically, a linebacker will drop into coverage, putting five players in pass defense. Therefore, the CBs are usually required to make tackles in the open field more than in other schemes, which is why most coordinators that run a Cover 2 look for bigger CBs.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 10:55 AM
If you're gonna really sit here and say Tye Hill can't play in a cover 2 cause he's 5'9 1/2 instead of 5'10.........that's really dumb.

Look what he's saying about Tapp...

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 10:56 AM
1) Height by itself has absolutely ZERO to do with being a good DE.

2) 40-times for DE's are hardly relevant.

Okay, you're right, it's a good thing that he ran a slow 40, and it's a good thing that he's really short. Those numbers are never used by scouts to judge how a player will transition into the NFL.

Woodrow Call
04-27-2006, 10:57 AM
Hank Baskett destroyed MU last year. There was nothing the defense could do to stop him. I am not saying that destroying MU's defense is an impressive feet but he had a great game.

jiveturkey
04-27-2006, 10:58 AM
Okay, you're right, it's a good thing that he ran a slow 40, and it's a good thing that he's really short. Those numbers are never used by scouts to judge how a player will transition into the NFL.
Scouts use tools other than just the combine to rate players.

Tapp isn't a first round pick because of the combine but he's s first day pick because of his production.

eazyb81
04-27-2006, 11:01 AM
Scouts use tools other than just the combine to rate players.

Tapp isn't a first round pick because of the combine but he's s first day pick because of his production.

No doubt, otherwise he would fall into the Day 2. However, you have to look at everything to judge a player, not just his college production.

I think Tapp would be a decent player in as a rush backer in a 3-4, but I just don't think he would be a good fit as a DE in a 4-3. Didn't know there were so many Darryl Tapp fans here. :)

ct
04-27-2006, 11:01 AM
1) Height by itself has absolutely ZERO to do with being a good DE.

2) 40-times for DE's are hardly relevant.

I agree with both.

Put height/weight together, and they do.

While 40 times don't matter much for DE, this does matter to me:

"Speed, quickness and natural athleticism are only average..."

While Hali's descriptors on the same topic say:

"has the strength to rip through blocks and the speed and athleticism to get to the QB quickly"

jiveturkey
04-27-2006, 11:02 AM
I agree with both.

Put height/weight together, and they do.

While 40 times don't matter much for DE, this does matter to me:

"Speed, quickness and natural athleticism are only average..."

While Hali's descriptors on the same topic say:

"has the strength to rip through blocks and the speed and athleticism to get to the QB quickly"
That's why Hali is a late first rounder and Tapp is a late second rounder.

ct
04-27-2006, 11:12 AM
That's why Hali is a late first rounder and Tapp is a late second rounder.

Don't speak no jiveturkey with me. Ya never know what could happen Saturday. Hali could fall to the 2nd and Tapp could get picked before him. Hali could be a Eric Hicks and Tapp could be a Jared Allen type pros. Never know...

I'm only saying I'm not excited about Tapp. But I also thought cRyan Leaf would be a good pro QB, better than Peyton. :shake:

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 11:17 AM
I'm not a Tapp fan...but I think he's good value where we pick in the SECOND round.

KevB
04-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Therefore, the CBs are usually required to make tackles in the open field more than in other schemes, which is why most coordinators that run a Cover 2 look for bigger CBs.


In that case, it's a good think Tye is a solid, physical tackler for his size.

jiveturkey
04-12-2007, 03:11 PM
Stupid arguments about height

Smart!!!

Kclee
04-13-2007, 08:34 AM
Baskett went undrafted but had a pretty good second half the season with Philly. Really wish we could have signed him after the draft. :mad:

htismaqe
04-13-2007, 09:32 AM
DO NOT bump threads from last year and clutter this place up right before the ****ing draft.