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The Poz
04-27-2006, 11:06 AM
Chiefs | Talking trade with Green bay
Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:57:22 -0700

Michael Smith, of ESPN.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs are talking with the Green Bay Packers about a trade for Packers WR Javon Walker.


Packers | Team gives Walker permission to seek trade
Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:51:58 -0700

Michael Smith, of ESPN.com, reports the Green Bay Packers have given WR Javon Walker permission to explore trade opportunities and a deal is expected before this weekend's NFL Draft, league sources with direct knowledge of the situation said.


Chiefs aren't the only team. Could be very interesting.

Rain Man
04-27-2006, 11:07 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.

chagrin
04-27-2006, 11:08 AM
For the #20?? Please, no

Shootr
04-27-2006, 11:09 AM
What kind of compensation are we talking about? Has anyone heard?

nychief
04-27-2006, 11:10 AM
I would not give up much.

Kraut
04-27-2006, 11:10 AM
Sounds good to me.

StcChief
04-27-2006, 11:11 AM
Walker for 2nd rounder would be Ok.

ChiefsCountry
04-27-2006, 11:12 AM
Trade down in the first, get an extra second and ship it to Green Bay.

Hydrae
04-27-2006, 11:13 AM
No more than a 3rd

MahiMike
04-27-2006, 11:13 AM
NOW we're talkin. I heard Rick Spielman on ESPN talking about this at lunch. I was hoping KC might be in on the mix. He had Walker rated as the #3 WR this weekend - behind Jackson and Holmes. That means an early 2nd round pick, so maybe we swap our #20 for #36? I'd be ok with this.

nychief
04-27-2006, 11:14 AM
Trade down in the first, get an extra second and ship it to Green Bay.

you would never get an extra second for trading down from 20.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:14 AM
we better not give up our 1st rounder ...



2nd round would even be questionable

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:14 AM
Please god, let this happen.

I would give our first for Walker. And I don't even remotely think we need a WR. He's just too good to pass on. I'd prefer to give a second.

How about our 1st and 2nd for Walker and their 2nd?

nychief
04-27-2006, 11:15 AM
Please god, let this happen.

I would give our first for Walker. And I don't even remotely think we need a WR. He's just too good to pass on. I'd prefer to give a second.

How about our 1st and 2nd for Walker and their 2nd?


when did Javon Walker become Marvin Harrison?

MahiMike
04-27-2006, 11:16 AM
we better not give up our 1st rounder ...



2nd round would even be questionable

Trade #20 for #36. We'd get a 1st round-caliber WR for only dropping 16 picks down. :clap:

Rain Man
04-27-2006, 11:16 AM
Definitely not a 1st, in my opinion. Maybe a 2nd, but that would hurt.

I could also see doing one of those 1st for Walker and a 2nd deals.

Rain Man
04-27-2006, 11:16 AM
I presume he's back 100% from his knee injury, right?

John_Wayne
04-27-2006, 11:17 AM
On one hand, he's a good WR and would be great for our offense. On the other hand, isn't he a locker room cancer? Isn't he a mini-me of T.O.? Then on the other hand, a trade for a 3rd round pick would be good. On the other hand, a 1st round pick would be too much. And yet, on the other hand........ well, that's already too many hands.

Warrior5
04-27-2006, 11:19 AM
No way Carl gives up the 1st rounder.

But it's good he's in the hunt.

BIG_DADDY
04-27-2006, 11:19 AM
On the other hand, isn't he a locker room cancer?.

Said the BB cancer.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:19 AM
when did Javon Walker become Marvin Harrison?Did you see Walker play in 2004? IMO, he's the third best WR in the game right now, behind Owens and CJ. Yea, better than Marvin Harrison.

InChiefsHell
04-27-2006, 11:19 AM
A buddy of mine who is a Donk fan says that they are aggressively persuing Jevon Walker as well. Reason enough to get him in here...

shakesthecat
04-27-2006, 11:19 AM
Maybe for a 2nd.
No way in hell for a 1st.

htismaqe
04-27-2006, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't trade a 1st or 2nd for him.

I don't think we need a WR that bad.

MahiMike
04-27-2006, 11:21 AM
No way Carl gives up the 1st rounder.

But it's good he's in the hunt.

Why not? Dropping only 16 spots isn't much different talent-wise. But come contract time, Carl can say, 'you're only a 2nd rounder - not a 1st'.

Brilliant!

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Trade #20 for #36. We'd get a 1st round-caliber WR for only dropping 16 picks down. :clap:

could prolly do that

2nd(36th from GB) - DE Tamba Hali
2nd - DT Claude wroten
3rd - QB Brodie Croyle

and WR Javon walker

Warrior5
04-27-2006, 11:22 AM
This happens within 2 days of Favre saying he'll play in 06?

Wonder if there's some connection?

John_Wayne
04-27-2006, 11:22 AM
Was he injured or did he sit out '05 with a contract dispute? I forgot. If he was injured, then he shouldn't be work too much. Maybe a 3rd or 4th.

Mecca
04-27-2006, 11:22 AM
On one hand, he's a good WR and would be great for our offense. On the other hand, isn't he a locker room cancer? Isn't he a mini-me of T.O.? Then on the other hand, a trade for a 3rd round pick would be good. On the other hand, a 1st round pick would be too much. And yet, on the other hand........ well, that's already too many hands.

Not really, he fired Rosenhaus. His issues in Green Bay are more with the management of the team where he feels he was treated unfairly than him being an ass in the locker room. Not to mention Brett Favre went way out of line last year to rip on him.

Mecca
04-27-2006, 11:23 AM
Was he injured or did he sit out '05 with a contract dispute? I forgot. If he was injured, then he shouldn't be work too much. Maybe a 3rd or 4th.

He tore his ACL in week 1........He is most likely fine now. ACL's aren't death sentences anymore the vast majority of guys come back just as good.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:24 AM
remember that Favre's arm tends to make wide receivers look better because they don't need as much separation.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:25 AM
On the other hand, isn't he a locker room cancer? Isn't he a mini-me of T.O.? No. He's not. He was still locked into his rookie contract and was coming off a kick ass season (nearly 1400 yards). He wanted a new contract. His agent threatened a hold out in the spring, then he fired his agent and chose to show up and play. Where he got injured on the first play of the season.

He was asking for a raise that he deserved. Just lke when Holmes asked for one. And he wasn't a cancer about it at all.

FAX
04-27-2006, 11:26 AM
remember that Favre's arm tends to make wide receivers look better because they don't need as much separation.

They do need good change of direction skills though, Mr. Laz.

I mean, for running down the d-backs going the other way with the ball and everything.

FAX

Mecca
04-27-2006, 11:26 AM
remember that Favre's arm tends to make wide receivers look better because they don't need as much separation.

Can you really say this about Favre at this stage of his career?

The Poz
04-27-2006, 11:28 AM
After Walker's huge '04, the cheap Packers failed to recognize it with any type of bonus or updated contract. Going into '05, he was only making somewhere in the $700,000 range. For his #'s, that's pathetic. Favre and others got him on board before he went out injured early in the season.
Ironically, Walker was the #20 overall in his draft year.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:28 AM
remember that Favre's arm tends to make wide receivers look better because they don't need as much separation.I'll agree that Favre has turned some nobodys into better WRs. But That's not the case with Walker. he was a pretty good talent coming out of college, and he's turned into a stud since. Great athleticism, jumping, speed, and awesome hands.

DJJasonp
04-27-2006, 11:29 AM
Can you really say this about Favre at this stage of his career?

I agree 100%.

I love Favre and all, but the last few years ....he's thrown quite a few passes up for grabs....and his receiving corp (especially walker) have made him look good.

Walker is in the top 5 of WR's in the league...

Do what it takes Carl.....this guy is a stud.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:29 AM
They do need good change of direction skills though, Mr. Laz.

I mean, for running down the d-backs going the other way with the ball and everything.

FAX


hehe

:p

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:29 AM
Rumor here is the Pats are involved in the hunt too. I really don't think a 1st round pick is required.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:30 AM
Rumor here is the Pats are involved in the hunt too. I really don't think a 1st round pick is required.I don't really think it will take a 1st either, but very likely a second.

Dunit35
04-27-2006, 11:31 AM
I'd do it for a 3rd rounder and that is all. He's going to cost a fortune.

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:31 AM
remember that Favre's arm tends to make wide receivers look better because they don't need as much separation.


Let me be perfectly clear here, as of today, April 27, 2006, and as of all of last year, Brett Favre, formerly great player, SUCKS.

He is not even average among NFL QBs. He makes too many horrible throws these days in comparison to the few flashes of greatness he occassionally shows. I think part of it is coaching as well, in that he was ALLOWED to keep making moronic throws into triple coverage without getting the ass-chewing he deserved.

Ari Chi3fs
04-27-2006, 11:31 AM
we have had a few trades with GB in the recent past... so we must have a good relationship with them. Hopefully, we give them our 2nd that we are gonna waste anyway.

ct
04-27-2006, 11:32 AM
I've been in draftplanet, haven't seen this discussion til just a minute ago. Haven't read up yet, but how's this?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=139652

Posted that yesterday.
*****
KC 1st round pick (#20) = 850
GB 2nd round pick (#36) = 540

... for a difference of 310, equivalent to #59 overall in the 2nd, 5 picks after our 2nd round pick.

So in effect, if we were to trade out of 20, down to Green Bay's 2nd round position #36, we've given up just a bit under the equivalent of our 2nd round pick. And we've held onto 3 total picks in Day 1. With Javon coming off an ACL injury, it's possible we might get a later round pick back from the Pack, perhaps to make the trade equivalent to a 3rd round pick value, without actually giving up that pick.

Summarizing, KC gets a still young (albeit rehabbing) playmaker at WR, and maintains the following Day1 picks by Round.Overall_Pick (with my wish list selections):

2.36 - DE Tamba Hali, Penn State
2.54 - S Ko Simpson, South Carolina or S Pat Watkins, Florida State or CB (if somebody slides, such as Richard Marshall, Fresno State)
3.85 - DT Claude Wroten, LSU

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:32 AM
but will we actually pay javon?

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't really think it will take a 1st either, but very likely a second.


Agreed. A 2nd sounds about right. If it's the very bottom of the second, maybe a 2nd and a 7th or something, but yeah. 2nd.

He's 28 years old as of this October, and entering his 5th year. He is definitely heading INTO his prime years, barring injury.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302233

Wile_E_Coyote
04-27-2006, 11:33 AM
KFFL:Pack asking for a 1st rounder turned down,
Broncos- Lelie & 6th rounder
Eagles-DT Hollis Thomas & 6 th rounder

stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302233

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
we have had a few trades with GB in the recent past... so we must have a good relationship with them. Hopefully, we give them our 2nd that we are gonna waste anyway.Yea. We screwed them into giving us a 5th for R-Kal Truluck. :)

Demonpenz
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
Yes this would be an awesome deal for a 1st rounder, just like with everything else though, our team is already good enough for 8-8 and we will win at home. We won't do anything big in the offseason the tickets have already been sold.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
The Packers want a first round pick for Walker and nothing less.

2 teams have proposed offers, and GB said no. One was Denver, the other Philadelphia. Both were shut down. What does that tell those who say we can give up a 2nd for Walker? Please. That's not happening. I'd rather keep our picks instead.

ct
04-27-2006, 11:36 AM
They may want a 1st rounder, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't balance that 1st rounder with something in return.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 11:37 AM
Let me be perfectly clear here, as of today, April 27, 2006, and as of all of last year, Brett Favre, formerly great player, SUCKS.

He is not even average among NFL QBs. He makes too many horrible throws these days in comparison to the few flashes of greatness he occassionally shows. I think part of it is coaching as well, in that he was ALLOWED to keep making moronic throws into triple coverage without getting the ass-chewing he deserved.

i never said favre was good


i said that his arm strength allows completions to receivers with less separation than other QB.

also his chuck and duck method makes alot of passes that most QB's wouldn't throw.

the wide receivers don't get blamed for his crap throws ... but get credit when they win the jump ball.


it inflates the numbers and worth of the wide receivers for Green Bay.


i'm not saying walker and driver suck ... just that they get a bonus from Favres wild man style and arm strength.

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:37 AM
The Packers want a first round pick for Walker and nothing less.

2 teams have proposed offers, and GB said no. One was Denver, the other Philadelphia. Both were shut down. What does that tell those who say we can give up a 2nd for Walker? Please. That's not happening. I'd rather keep our picks instead.

It says nothing. Just cuz the Pack wants a 1st doesn't mean they will get a 1st. If they need to make a deal, then they might have to take a the best offer they get even if it's not quite a 1st.

For Walker, I personally would be okay with a 2nd this year and another pick next year. I'd like to say another 3rd, but even if it was a 2nd, mebbe.

'course I'm figuring that that pick ends up being the last pick in the round next year. :p

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 11:39 AM
The Packers want a first round pick for Walker and nothing less.

2 teams have proposed offers, and GB said no. One was Denver, the other Philadelphia. Both were shut down. What does that tell those who say we can give up a 2nd for Walker? Please. That's not happening. I'd rather keep our picks instead.

I agree. He's injury prone and quite honestly, in my book, he's overrated. I'd take Lelie over him 'cause we know Lelie can stretch the field- but, I'd only give up a 3rd round pick for Lelie. Lelie and Parker on one side, Kennison on the other as a possession receiver would create the mismatches we'd want because Gonzalez would then have a field day and if Wilson ever amounted to anything- he become a factor in the offense.

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:39 AM
i never said favre was good


i said that his arm strength allows completions to receivers with less separation than other QB.

also his chuck and duck method makes alot of passes that most QB's would throw.

the wide receivers don't get blamed for his crap throws ... but get credit when they win the jump ball.


it inflates the numbers and worth of the wide receivers for Green Bay.


i'm not saying walker and driver suck ... just that they get a bonus from Favres wild man style and arm strength.

mmmm....interesting. So because Favre takes crazy chances squeezing the ball into overly-tight spots, his receivers get more receptions than they would with a normal, sane, QB because they need less separation.

That's a really, really interesting theory. No idea if it's true or not, but interesting. Teh rep just for the interesting insight into the weird possibility I hadn't even thought of.

vailpass
04-27-2006, 11:39 AM
There are a handful of teams talking to GB about Walker. he is a stud WR, a true #1. FWIW the Broncos are talking to GB about a 2nd rounder or a trade for Lelie:

...Denver can package and try to get another first-round pick. It can move down from No. 15 while staying in the first round and get more first-day picks.

It also could be interested in making a trade for a veteran player. The Broncos have been in talks with Green Bay about receiver Javon Walker and with Detroit about quarterback Joey Harrington. If either player is traded - and Denver has plenty of competition for both - it likely will happen this week.

To get Walker, Denver likely would have to offer a second-round pick or perhaps package receiver Ashley Lelie and a midround pick. The Lions likely would require a low-round pick for Harrington.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_3739754

Dunit35
04-27-2006, 11:39 AM
I am not for trading our first round pick for him. Please no...

vailpass
04-27-2006, 11:41 AM
The Packers want a first round pick for Walker and nothing less.

2 teams have proposed offers, and GB said no. One was Denver, the other Philadelphia. Both were shut down. What does that tell those who say we can give up a 2nd for Walker? Please. That's not happening. I'd rather keep our picks instead.

GB will take a tough stance until draft day. They want to get something for Walker. The good GMs know this and will play along.
(then Denver will get him and vailpass will be tickled ****ing pink)

King_Chief_Fan
04-27-2006, 11:42 AM
KFFL:Pack asking for a 1st rounder turned down,
Broncos- Lelie & 6th rounder
Eagles-DT Hollis Thomas & 6 th rounder

stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302233


ROFLROFLROFL Lelie and a 6th for Walker.......those stupid donkey bastards

ct
04-27-2006, 11:42 AM
I agree. He's injury prone and quite honestly, in my book, he's overrated. I'd take Lelie over him 'cause we know Lelie can stretch the field- but, I'd only give up a 3rd round pick for Lelie. Lelie and Parker on one side, Kennison on the other as a possession receiver would create the mismatches we'd want because Gonzalez would then have a field day and if Wilson ever amounted to anything- he become a factor in the offense.

You've got to be shitting me! Ashley Lelie? That dude is a total bum.

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:42 AM
I agree. He's injury prone and quite honestly, in my book, he's overrated. I'd take Lelie over him 'cause we know Lelie can stretch the field- but, I'd only give up a 3rd round pick for Lelie. Lelie and Parker on one side, Kennison on the other as a possession receiver would create the mismatches we'd want because Gonzalez would then have a field day and if Wilson ever amounted to anything- he become a factor in the offense.

"injury prone"? Other than last year, he's been in 15+ games for the 3 prior years. How is that "injury prone"?!

He's also 15 pounds heavier than Lelie at the same height. I don't know which one is the better blocker in the running game, but I'd imagine it's Walker based on that alone.

I won't speak to which is the better deep threat vs. possession guy. I'd agree that you guys could use a deep threat vs. the Pats who want more of a possession guy (Branch and Johnson are solid deep threats for us already).

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 11:43 AM
and vailpass will be tickled ****ing pink)

Yea, all you homo Donkey fans are tickled pink, aren't ya.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 11:43 AM
I'd give up a 5th for him and that's it

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:44 AM
You've got to be shitting me! Ashley Lelie? That dude is a total bum.I agree. Lelie over Walker is ridiculous.

ct
04-27-2006, 11:44 AM
This could be nothing more than Carl jumping in to just F* with Denver, trying to drive the price up.

Or he read my post and likes my idea. ;)

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 11:44 AM
I wouldn't trade a 1st or 2nd for him.

I don't think we need a WR that bad.

When you have the chance to acquire a young star, you do it for a 2nd rounder.

Ignoring the receiver depth or talent on this team is going to eventually bite us in the ass. Will it this year? Possibly without Saunders.

vailpass
04-27-2006, 11:44 AM
Yea, all you homo Donkey fans are tickled pink, aren't ya.

Stop talking dirty to me CP, you know I can't resist the strong sober types. :p

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:45 AM
I'd give up a 5th for him and that's it

IMHO you overvalue draft picks. The goal of draft pick is to get football players who can contribute to your club CHEAP.

A 5th will be cheap, but it's far less than 50/50 whether he'll contribute to your club even a little bit, much less as a near or actual pro bowl caliber WR... If you've got the cap space for the guy, then it makes sense to do the deal.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 11:45 AM
I'd give up a 5th for him and that's it

A 5th?

That's a joke.

Do some of you people even watch football outside of the Chiefs?

RedThat
04-27-2006, 11:45 AM
I don't get it. Why does an offensive player intrigue some people here?
Javon Walker is a damn fine WR, but, if we got him and gave up our first day picks, I'd be pissed.

Screw offense man. Go defense. Why Offense when you know your team has been one of the most prolific and well established offense the last 5 years?

Look, we hardly did anything to improve our defense so far in FA. At least we have the draft to look forward to and 3 first day picks that could fill significant holes and needs on defense. That's more important! This team needs passrushers, corners, safeties you name it. WR isn't a necessity on this team. Let's not forget about the Kennisons, Parkers, and Gonzalezs, they've all done a fine job. You gotta think balance people.

If we get Walker, we gonna have to sacrife some picks for sure, and that means we lose out on defense. Once again, call me pissed if that happens, and I won't watch football this year.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 11:46 AM
IMHO you overvalue draft picks. The goal of draft pick is to get football players who can contribute to your club CHEAP.

A 5th will be cheap, but it's far less than 50/50 whether he'll contribute to your club even a little bit, much less as a near or actual pro bowl caliber WR... If you've got the cap space for the guy, then it makes sense to do the deal.

Amen.

Some people have a true hardon over draft picks. The goal is for that player to become a star that you draft.

If you trade a draft pick (not your first) for a top talent, what's the problem?

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 11:46 AM
You've got to be shitting me! Ashley Lelie? That dude is a total bum.

Lighten up Francis, it wouldn't happen. I was merely suggesting how in combination with our receivers- Lelie could help stretch the field and create mismatches. I stand corrected, but I believe Walker would be another possession receiver- we already have one. We need someone with speed to stretch the field with Parker.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 11:46 AM
ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!! Go get 'em Carl. I would almost think about sending a thankyou letter to 1 Arrowhead Drive Re: Carl Peterson

Signed,
A non-true fan (aka non season tix holder)

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:46 AM
Agreed that the Chiefs primary focus needs to be defense. That said, your offensive stars are getting a bit long in the tooth...

dtrain
04-27-2006, 11:47 AM
Trade down in the first, get an extra second and ship it to Green Bay.

I believe that we will end up trading down with either Carolina or Pittsburg cause they both want Lendale White.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:48 AM
Lighten up Francis, it wouldn't happen. I was merely suggesting how in combination with our receivers- Lelie could help stretch the field and create mismatches. I stand corrected, but I believe Walker would be another possession receiver- we already have one. We need someone with speed to stretch the field with Parker.Walker isn't a possesion receiver. He averaged over 15 yds per catch in '04

And while he may not be as fast as Lelie, he can actually catch the ball, unlike Lelie.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 11:49 AM
I don't get it. Why does an offensive player intrigue some people here?
Javon Walker is a damn fine WR, but, if we got him and gave up our first day picks, I'd be pissed.

Screw offense man. Go defense. Why Offense when you know your team has been one of the most prolific and well established offense the last 5 years?

Look, we hardly did anything to improve our defense so far in FA. At least we have the draft to look forward to and 3 first day picks that could fill significant holes and needs on defense. That's more important! This team needs passrushers, corners, safeties you name it. WR isn't a necessity on this team. Let's not forget about the Kennisons, Parkers, and Gonzalezs, they've all done a fine job. You gotta think balance people.

If we get Walker, we gonna have to sacrife some picks for sure, and that means we lose out on defense. Once again, call me pissed if that happens, and I won't watch football this year.

Why does an offensive player excite some people?

You're assuming the player we draft in the 2nd round could contribute to the team. Sorry, but with Carl's record in the 2nd, I have little faith that will happen.

Yeah, those receivers have done a fine job - with an offensive coordinator that knew the passing game inside and out.

Getting a young, stud receiver should be a priority. Kennison isn't going to play forever, and quite frankly, we've gotten more than I ever could have expected out of him.

I am thinking balance. Offensive balance. The defense isn't going to somehow turn into a juggernaut because of a 2nd round pick.

Logical
04-27-2006, 11:49 AM
How old is Walker, if he is around 25-27 then I would consider a 2nd for him. Better yet give GB our 2nd and 3rd for their 2nd and Walker.:D

ct
04-27-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't get it. Why does an offensive player intrigue some people here?
Javon Walker is a damn fine WR, but, if we got him and gave up our first day picks, I'd be pissed.

Screw offense man. Go defense. Why Offense when you know your team has been one of the most prolific and well established offense the last 5 years?

Look, we hardly did anything to improve our defense so far in FA. At least we have the draft to look forward to and 3 first day picks that could fill significant holes and needs on defense. That's more important! This team needs passrushers, corners, safeties you name it. WR isn't a necessity on this team. Let's not forget about the Kennisons, Parkers, and Gonzalezs, they've all done a fine job. You gotta think balance people.

If we get Walker, we gonna have to sacrife some picks for sure, and that means we lose out on defense. Once again, call me pissed if that happens, and I won't watch football this year.

Not necessarily.

KC 1st round pick (#20) = 850
GB 2nd round pick (#36) = 540

... for a difference of 310, equivalent to #59 overall in the 2nd, 5 picks after our 2nd round pick.

So in effect, if we were to trade out of 20, down to Green Bay's 2nd round position #36, we've given up just a bit under the equivalent of our 2nd round pick. And we've held onto 3 total picks in Day 1. With Javon coming off an ACL injury, it's possible we might get a later round pick back from the Pack, perhaps to make the trade equivalent to a 3rd round pick value, without actually giving up that pick.

Summarizing, KC gets a still young (albeit rehabbing) playmaker at WR, and maintains the following Day1 picks by Round.Overall_Pick (with my wish list selections):

2.36 - DE Tamba Hali, Penn State
2.54 - S Ko Simpson, South Carolina or S Pat Watkins, Florida State or CB (if somebody slides, such as Richard Marshall, Fresno State)
3.85 - DT Claude Wroten, LSU

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 11:50 AM
Lighten up Francis, it wouldn't happen. I was merely suggesting how in combination with our receivers- Lelie could help stretch the field and create mismatches. I stand corrected, but I believe Walker would be another possession receiver- we already have one. We need someone with speed to stretch the field with Parker.

Ha. Walker doesn't have speed?

That's absurd.

Lelie has speed. So does that Capel guy we had in here a few years ago. Maybe we can get him. He has about the same hands as Lelie.

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 11:51 AM
Walker isn't a possesion receiver. He averaged over 15 yds per catch in '04



Everyone one in Green Bay was a possession receiver. :D

FAX
04-27-2006, 11:51 AM
I don't get it. Why does an offensive player intrigue some people here?

I don't know about other people, Mr. RedBull, but for me it sometimes boils down to known vs. unknown.

We know that our offense should be good this year (barring injury, idiocy, etc.). We don't know how our defense will perform with or without a good draft.

So, if the O can put up 7 to 10 more points per game on average with a "known" improvement on that side of the ball, would that not help our D as well as aid our chances at making the playoffs? Especially considering this coming year's schedule?

FAX

jspchief
04-27-2006, 11:51 AM
We'd be very lucky to have any of our '06 draft picks turn into the caliber of player that Walker is. That's why he's worth it. Walker already is what teams can only hope that draftees like Holmes and Jackson will become. He's a known commodity.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 11:51 AM
I believe that we will end up trading down with either Carolina or Pittsburg cause they both want Lendale White.

I don't think so. I think we are targetting Manny Lawson at 20. If he's gone and Jimmy Williams is gone by 20, the smart thing to do is trade down and get Tamba Hali.

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:52 AM
Amen.

Some people have a true hardon over draft picks. The goal is for that player to become a star that you draft.

If you trade a draft pick (not your first) for a top talent, what's the problem?


I think people are tantalized by draft picks the same way they are tantalized by a lottery ticket for a drawing tomorrow. The **possibility** of huge rewards dazzles them. The **reality** is that the prize isn't likely to be that big is forgotten.

Pats traded a 4th round pick for a rent-a-year Ted Washington to plug a huge gap at Nose Tackle and won the SB in 2003 with him. After that year, he left for more money. Not a single Pats fan with a brain in his head regrets that trade.

The next year, the Pats traded a 2nd (we had 2 that year) for Corey Dillon to seriously upgrade the RB position. Another Super Bowl.

Last year, we had some bum trades -- traded a pick to Cleveland for Andre Davis and a pick to the Cards for Duane Starks, who flat out sucked for reasons unclear. The point, however, is that a pick is nothing more than an opportunity to get a good player. If you think the player is going to help you out, then you need to balance the value of the player against the caliber of player you're likely to draft at that spot.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 11:53 AM
A 5th?

That's a joke.

Do some of you people even watch football outside of the Chiefs?

Yes I do infact I've been to Lambeau Field, and walked on the turf.

The guy's comming off of a major injury, and I wouldn't risk a high round pick on his ass. KC needs to focus on defense

Amnorix
04-27-2006, 11:54 AM
How old is Walker, if he is around 25-27 then I would consider a 2nd for him. Better yet give GB our 2nd and 3rd for their 2nd and Walker.:D


See my prior post. He turns 28 during this upcoming season. With 4 years experience (last year cut short by injury) he's heading right into his prime NFL years.

CosmicPal
04-27-2006, 11:55 AM
Ha. Walker doesn't have speed?

That's absurd.



When the ***** did I ever say he DIDN'T have speed?

ct
04-27-2006, 11:55 AM
I think people are tantalized by draft picks the same way they are tantalized by a lottery ticket for a drawing tomorrow. The **possibility** of huge rewards dazzles them. The **reality** is that the prize isn't likely to be that big is forgotten.

Pats traded a 4th round pick for a rent-a-year Ted Washington to plug a huge gap at Nose Tackle and won the SB in 2003 with him. After that year, he left for more money. Not a single Pats fan with a brain in his head regrets that trade.

The next year, the Pats traded a 2nd (we had 2 that year) for Corey Dillon to seriously upgrade the RB position. Another Super Bowl.

Last year, we had some bum trades -- traded a pick to Cleveland for Andre Davis and a pick to the Cards for Duane Starks, who flat out sucked for reasons unclear. The point, however, is that a pick is nothing more than an opportunity to get a good player. If you think the player is going to help you out, then you need to balance the value of the player against the caliber of player you're likely to draft at that spot.

:clap: Well said!

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 11:56 AM
I'd give up a 4th this season and a 3rd next. Doubt they would take that though.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 11:59 AM
I'd give up a 4th this season and a 3rd next. Doubt they would take that though.

we gave up the 4th for Herm

Mecca
04-27-2006, 11:59 AM
Yes I do infact I've been to Lambeau Field, and walked on the turf.

The guy's comming off of a major injury, and I wouldn't risk a high round pick on his ass. KC needs to focus on defense

We don't need proven players in a position that is clearly a weakness on this team........

Sorry that defense isn't going to be turned around by a 2nd round pick this year. The picks are being overvalued, I'd bet a huge amount of money Walker would be more productive here than any player picked in the 2nd round.

Demonpenz
04-27-2006, 11:59 AM
I love keeping our picks. Warfield and Sims etc...... booyeah git r done

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 12:00 PM
We don't need proven players in a position that is clearly a weakness on this team........

Sorry that defense isn't going to be turned around by a 2nd round pick this year. The picks are being overvalued, I'd bet a huge amount of money Walker would be more productive here than any player picked in the 2nd round.
Well the offense made a drastic turn with a new staff. Sorry that excuse won't cut it

ct
04-27-2006, 12:01 PM
We don't need proven players in a position that is clearly a weakness on this team........

Sorry that defense isn't going to be turned around by a 2nd round pick this year. The picks are being overvalued, I'd bet a huge amount of money Walker would be more productive here than any player picked in the 2nd round.

I agree. Maybe Carl read the media clippings last year, how badly he's done with 2nd round picks, and decided last year to trade them away every year for PB caliber players. Sounds good to me!!

sedated
04-27-2006, 12:01 PM
This guy was being compared to Randy Moss at one point.

I would trade Billy Bartee, Eddie Freeman, Kris Wilson, and Junior Siavii for Walker in a heartbeat

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:02 PM
When the ***** did I ever say he DIDN'T have speed?


You did say that we needed someone with speed to stretch the field with Parker, pretty much saying that Walker wouldnt be able to do that.

ct
04-27-2006, 12:03 PM
Well the offense made a drastic turn with a new staff. Sorry that excuse won't cut it

huh? that offense in that 1st year was scary! and I don't mean bad-ass scary for our opponent, I mean shit your britches chiefs fans scary.

Mecca
04-27-2006, 12:05 PM
Tribal has played to much Madden where you can draft 6 guys who all start in the first year.....

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:06 PM
we gave up the 4th for Herm


Sorry I meant the other way around.

KevB
04-27-2006, 12:06 PM
I'd give up a 2nd in a heartbeat for Walker, assuming his rehab is on track and there's no red flags on his recovery. A proven Pro Bowl WR, hell, a Pro Bowler at almost any position is worth a 2nd round pick...period. Or, we could roll the dice on Siavii, Bigfoot, Eddie Freeman, Kevin Lockett, Mike Cloud....etc.

The drawback isn't giving up the 2nd round pick, it's the money invested in giving Walker the extension he'd inevitably want. Then you've got that much more salary cap money tied up in the offense. I'd still pull the trigger.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 12:07 PM
Here's some video of Javon Walker, "possesion" receiver. :)

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2004/nflcom/w03/packers_colts_highlight_300k.rm&proto=rtsp

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:07 PM
huh? that offense in that 1st year was scary! and I don't mean bad-ass scary for our opponent, I mean shit your britches chiefs fans scary.


It wasnt that bad, Trent and the WR's had to readjust to a different system. I believe IIRC Preist Holmes won the rushing title that year and was AFC Offensive player of the year or something like that.

HolmeZz
04-27-2006, 12:09 PM
I'd give them our 1st, 2nd, and Samie Parker for Walker and their 2nd.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 12:11 PM
When the ***** did I ever say he DIDN'T have speed?

You're the one talking out of your ass calling him a possession receiver.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:13 PM
I'd give them our 1st, 2nd, and Samie Parker for Walker and their 2nd.

NO!

Count Zarth
04-27-2006, 12:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about this is he is 28 and coming off an ACL.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 12:14 PM
Yes I do infact I've been to Lambeau Field, and walked on the turf.

The guy's comming off of a major injury, and I wouldn't risk a high round pick on his ass. KC needs to focus on defense

I'm sick of the defense company line.

The team isn't going to turn the defense around with a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th rounder this year.

With Gunther here, I have little faith any 2nd rounder could turn into something anyway.

We traded for Trent Green, gave up a much higher pick, still had defensive deficiencies and he was coming off two major procedures.

Yes, let's not risk that 2nd or 3rd rounder, but let's spend it on a punter, Mike Cloud, Rashaan Shehee or any other mid-round bust that Carl has drafted.

HolmeZz
04-27-2006, 12:14 PM
NO!

And why not?

Count Zarth
04-27-2006, 12:16 PM
Here's some video of Javon Walker, "possesion" receiver. :)

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2004/nflcom/w03/packers_colts_highlight_300k.rm&proto=rtsp

I remember that game. It was more like watching someone play Madden than a real NFL game.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 12:16 PM
Why does an offensive player excite some people?

You're assuming the player we draft in the 2nd round could contribute to the team. Sorry, but with Carl's record in the 2nd, I have little faith that will happen.

Yeah, those receivers have done a fine job - with an offensive coordinator that knew the passing game inside and out.

Getting a young, stud receiver should be a priority. Kennison isn't going to play forever, and quite frankly, we've gotten more than I ever could have expected out of him.

I am thinking balance. Offensive balance. The defense isn't going to somehow turn into a juggernaut because of a 2nd round pick.

First off, let me say this draft is LOADED with talent. It is deep, and you can get a good player in the 2nd round to start for you. Yes I have a good feeling we will draft a good player in the 2nd round to start for us.

I don't think of Carls history when it comes to 2nd round picks. I think we should place that aside, and forget about it. We've got Herman Edwards, and we should be talking about Herman Edwards here. I think we are gonna draft a CB in the 2nd round. And I feel confident, and comfortable with that especially if Herm is a major contributor in the overall scouting analysis of the CB we select in the 2nd round.

We have a fine balance on offense. We lack that superstar receiver, but we are solid all round. I mean I can't think of a team that has an offense more prolific, and established as the Chiefs?

What Im trying to say is, it's not just a second round pick thats gonna make this defense into a juggernaut. I agree it won't just take a second round pick. I'd like all THREE first day picks come in and start for us on defense. Contribution from all 3 rounds should make this defense better at least. I'd take that over Javon Walker. And keep the offense the same, leave it the way it is...We shouldn't allow an offensive player to negate some of our first day picks. Most of the holes we have on defense outweigh a superstar WR by a mile.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:20 PM
And why not?

Thats giving up too much. Parker is ascending for us, why would we trade him? EK will only be around for a couple more seasons.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 12:20 PM
First off, let me say this draft is LOADED with talent. It is deep, and you can get a good player in the 2nd round to start for you. Yes I have a good feeling we will draft a good player in the 2nd round to start for us.

I don't think of Carls history when it comes to 2nd round picks. I think we should place that aside, and forget about it. We've got Herman Edwards, and we should be talking about Herman Edwards here. I think we are gonna draft a CB in the 2nd round. And I feel confident, and comfortable with that especially if Herm is a major contributor in the overall scouting analysis of the CB we select in the 2nd round.

We have a fine balance on offense. We lack that superstar receiver, but we are solid all round. I mean I can't think of a team that has an offense more prolific, and established as the Chiefs?

What Im trying to say is, it's not just a second round pick thats gonna make this defense into a juggernaut. I agree it won't just take a second round pick. I'd like all THREE first day picks come in and start for us on defense. Contribution from all 3 rounds should make this defense better at least. I'd take that over Javon Walker. And keep the offense the same, leave it the way it is...We shouldn't allow an offensive player to negate some of our first day picks. Most of the holes we have on defense outweigh a superstar WR by a mile.

Place it aside? Why because it doesn't suit your argument?

Carl has been with THREE different head coaches and his second round picks have generally sucked with all three.

We aren't going to agree on this. I'd take Javon Walker over any contribution any 2nd rounder would make on defense.

And I disagree about staying status quo on offense being a good thing. The mastermind has left, our receiver core is about as deep as a blowup pool and Kennison isn't getting younger.

Unless you're going to guarantee me that we can get a stud DE in the 2nd round that can immediately pay dividens, I don't buy the whole "the holes we have outweigh a superstar WR by a mile."

This offense is a juggernaut for one reason. Offensive line. The team has the stats is does in spite of the receivers, not because of them.

ct
04-27-2006, 12:22 PM
Once again RedBull ...

KC 1st round pick (#20) = 850
GB 2nd round pick (#36) = 540

... for a difference of 310, equivalent to #59 overall in the 2nd, 5 picks after our 2nd round pick.

So in effect, if we were to trade out of 20, down to Green Bay's 2nd round position #36, we've given up just a bit under the equivalent of our 2nd round pick. And we've held onto 3 total picks in Day 1. With Javon coming off an ACL injury, it's possible we might get a later round pick back from the Pack, perhaps to make the trade equivalent to a 3rd round pick value, without actually giving up that pick.

Summarizing, KC gets a still young (albeit rehabbing) playmaker at WR, and maintains the following Day1 picks by Round.Overall_Pick (with my wish list selections):

2.36 - DE Tamba Hali, Penn State
2.54 - S Ko Simpson, South Carolina or S Pat Watkins, Florida State or CB (if somebody slides, such as Richard Marshall, Fresno State)
3.85 - DT Claude Wroten, LSU


We may not have to give up any "picks" at all, just position. Is this likely? I dunno, just saying that trades can be flexible.

Would you make this trade? I would!!

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Yes, let's not risk that 2nd or 3rd rounder, but let's spend it on a punter,


I'm perfectly fine with drafting Colquitt in the 3rd round. The guy hands down was the best punter in the NCAA and we needed one like nobody's business. He's a guy we will have for 15 seasons IMO. He didnt have a great year last season but he will get better.

HolmeZz
04-27-2006, 12:27 PM
Thats giving up too much. Parker is ascending for us, why would we trade him? EK will only be around for a couple more seasons.

Giving up too much? We're getting a pro bowl WR and all we're doing is trading down 16 spots. I like Samie Parker, but he's IMO a #3 WR in this league. He wouldn't be needed if we acquired Walker, and the Pack would like a WR in return, as I think Driver wants out of GB.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 12:28 PM
I don't know about other people, Mr. RedBull, but for me it sometimes boils down to known vs. unknown.

We know that our offense should be good this year (barring injury, idiocy, etc.). We don't know how our defense will perform with or without a good draft.

So, if the O can put up 7 to 10 more points per game on average with a "known" improvement on that side of the ball, would that not help our D as well as aid our chances at making the playoffs? Especially considering this coming year's schedule?

FAX

No I dont think so because our pass defense is terrible, and that is the area we should focus on in the draft, how to improve our pass defense. if your pass defense is terrible how can you expect your team to hold a lead? We've seen this before as Chief fans. Our team scores 30, while the other scores 40. That has been happening the last 5 years, and Im growing tired of it. what difference is a Javon Walker gonna make? Can he get to the QB? Can he cover? No. Absolutley not. so we gotta fix the pass defense, it's more of a priority than adding a superstar WR.

Think about it. We only have 1 passrusher on this team, and 1 DB that can cover. That pretty much explains for a porous pass defense doesn't it?

I don't feel comfortable when this team has a lead, especially if were playing a good QB/WR combo....see philadelphia last year? that stuff needs to be addressed and shouldn't happen again.

picasso
04-27-2006, 12:29 PM
If Denver takes Cromartie (sp) in the first we will NOT take Ty Hill with the 20th. Especially with as many free agent CB's we have been signing recently. We will take a DT who will remain there in the 36th spot, GB's spot. I think it's a great deal to trade our 1st rounder for Walker. He's proven - end of story. We wouldn't be in the WR mix if we knew for sure we had Stoval in the 2nd pick IMO.

TRR
04-27-2006, 12:29 PM
I would give up our 1st round pick for Javon Walker. Walker is an elite WR that could be our #1 option for years to come. Who are we going to get at 20 that will come in and make an impact like Walker will for the next 5 or 6 years??

Realistically, Carl will never give up a 1 for Walker, but I would definitely be interested in a second round pick for him....Possibly a second and a fifth.

KevB
04-27-2006, 12:30 PM
Place it aside? Why because it doesn't suit your argument?

Carl has been with THREE different head coaches and his second round picks have generally sucked with all three.

We aren't going to agree on this. I'd take Javon Walker over any contribution any 2nd rounder would make on defense.

And I disagree about staying status quo on offense being a good thing. The mastermind has left, our receiver core is about as deep as a blowup pool and Kennison isn't getting younger.

Unless you're going to guarantee me that we can get a stud DE in the 2nd round that can immediately pay dividens, I don't buy the whole "the holes we have outweigh a superstar WR by a mile."

This offense is a juggernaut for one reason. Offensive line. The team has the stats is does in spite of the receivers, not because of them.

Um....what he said.

Seriously, it's been said numerous times this week by Carl that he gets he last say, end of story. He's had the last say for the last 16 years and he's been terrible.

buddha
04-27-2006, 12:33 PM
Until we have a better idea of what the terms would be, who knows if it would be a good trade or not? In a vacuum, Walker is one of the better receivers in the league. He's productive and he can burn teams deep. If we were to get Walker and swap places in the 1st, plus some later round manipulation, then I think it's a good idea. You could still get an impact defensive player at GB's pick.

SNR
04-27-2006, 12:33 PM
This guy was being compared to Randy Moss at one point.

I would trade Billy Bartee, Eddie Freeman, Kris Wilson, and Junior Siavii for Walker in a heartbeatHell, I would trade those players for a slap in the face.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:35 PM
Giving up too much? We're getting a pro bowl WR and all we're doing is trading down 16 spots. I like Samie Parker, but he's IMO a #3 WR in this league. He wouldn't be needed if we acquired Walker, and the Pack would like a WR in return, as I think Driver wants out of GB.

You dont just trade away a WR because he's not a ProBowler in his first couple seasons. Parker is the future of this team in the WR position and he is getting better and showed flashes of what he can do last season. We need this first round pick for our defense. and I'm not willing to trade down just yet, especially not 16 spots.

FAX
04-27-2006, 12:36 PM
No I dont think so because our pass defense is terrible, and that is the area we should focus on in the draft, how to improve our pass defense. if your pass defense is terrible how can you expect your team to hold a lead? We've seen this before as Chief fans. Our team scores 30, while the other scores 40. That has been happening the last 5 years, and Im growing tired of it. what difference is a Javon Walker gonna make? Can he get to the QB? Can he cover? No. Absolutley not. so we gotta fix the pass defense, it's more of a priority than adding a superstar WR.

Think about it. We only have 1 passrusher on this team, and 1 DB that can cover. That pretty much explains for a porous pass defense doesn't it?

I don't feel comfortable when this team has a lead, especially if were playing a good QB/WR combo....see philadelphia last year? that stuff needs to be addressed and shouldn't happen again.

Nice post, Mr. RedBull.

If you check my football-related posts, you'll see that I am also very much in favor of adding a pass rush threat to our D. Our lack of an effective pass rush either from the middle or from the end opposite Jared is probably this team's most glaring overall weakness. A better rush would certainly improve the performance of our d-backs.

However, as has been stated, the draft is a crap-shoot. Barring Herm's conservative nature, we may be forced once again into the position of having to outscore the enemy. Can we or can we not? That's the question.

I agree fully with both your sentiment and your logic. But, if we have the opportunity to pull down an impact WR we should probably strongly consider it. We've been flying on one wing when it comes to WRs too.

I hope that an improvement on D and the addition of a good receiver are not mutually exclusive achievements this year.

FAX

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 12:36 PM
Did you see Walker play in 2004? IMO, he's the third best WR in the game right now, behind Owens and CJ. Yea, better than Marvin Harrison.
that's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 12:37 PM
Once again RedBull ...

KC 1st round pick (#20) = 850
GB 2nd round pick (#36) = 540

... for a difference of 310, equivalent to #59 overall in the 2nd, 5 picks after our 2nd round pick.

So in effect, if we were to trade out of 20, down to Green Bay's 2nd round position #36, we've given up just a bit under the equivalent of our 2nd round pick. And we've held onto 3 total picks in Day 1. With Javon coming off an ACL injury, it's possible we might get a later round pick back from the Pack, perhaps to make the trade equivalent to a 3rd round pick value, without actually giving up that pick.

Summarizing, KC gets a still young (albeit rehabbing) playmaker at WR, and maintains the following Day1 picks by Round.Overall_Pick (with my wish list selections):

2.36 - DE Tamba Hali, Penn State
2.54 - S Ko Simpson, South Carolina or S Pat Watkins, Florida State or CB (if somebody slides, such as Richard Marshall, Fresno State)
3.85 - DT Claude Wroten, LSU


We may not have to give up any "picks" at all, just position. Is this likely? I dunno, just saying that trades can be flexible.

Would you make this trade? I would!!

No absolutely not. I don't like that trade, it's sound too risky. If I see Lawson there at 20, Im taking him.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 12:37 PM
Until we have a better idea of what the terms would be, who knows if it would be a good trade or not? In a vacuum, Walker is one of the better receivers in the league. He's productive and he can burn teams deep. If we were to get Walker and swap places in the 1st, plus some later round manipulation, then I think it's a good idea. You could still get an impact defensive player at GB's pick.


We would get a better def. player with GB's pick. Michael Huff might be there.

HolmeZz
04-27-2006, 12:39 PM
You dont just trade away a WR because he's not a ProBowler in his first couple seasons. Parker is the future of this team in the WR position and he is getting better and showed flashes of what he can do last season. We need this first round pick for our defense. and I'm not willing to trade down just yet, especially not 16 spots.

You're overrating Parker. He wouldn't have a spot for him if we had Walker. Hall would be our slot guy. He's expendable.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 12:39 PM
why would you give up a first round pick for a guy who refuses to play for his current team?

ct
04-27-2006, 12:40 PM
Until we have a better idea of what the terms would be, who knows if it would be a good trade or not? In a vacuum, Walker is one of the better receivers in the league. He's productive and he can burn teams deep. If we were to get Walker and swap places in the 1st, plus some later round manipulation, then I think it's a good idea. You could still get an impact defensive player at GB's pick.

We would get a better def. player with GB's pick. Michael Huff might be there.

Wow guys. Just WOW! :rolleyes:

Did you really think this through?

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 12:40 PM
You're overrating Parker. He wouldn't have a spot for him if we had Walker. Hall would be our slot guy. He's expendable.
I'd rather have Parker in the slot than Hall.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 12:40 PM
that's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.Then you haven't watched him play.

Better than Harrison in his prime? No. Better than him now? Yes.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-27-2006, 12:43 PM
Then you haven't watched him play.

Better than Harrison in his prime? No. Better than him now? Yes.


I agree wholeheartedly. I also believe we need a WR as bad as we need any other position on the field besides a CB. Eddie Kennison is not a true #1 WR. Jevon Walker is. He is one of the top 5 WR in the league. This is a no brainer. If we can get him for a 2nd round or better pick, we'd be dumb not to make it happen. Imagine what Jevon Walker could accomplish with a back like Larry Johnson, the playaction deep ball will be back in Kansas City in large fashion.

ct
04-27-2006, 12:43 PM
Then you haven't watched him play.

Better than Harrison in his prime? No. Better than him now? Yes.

Technically speaking, nobody has seen Walker play in nearly a year, so that's a pretty strong statement. Now was Walker better last we saw him, then Marvin last year? Maybe, at least debateable.

CupidStunt
04-27-2006, 12:44 PM
that's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Agreed.

Walker is good, but not elite.

Gotta love the good old, "you haven't seen him play (if you disagree)", bullchit, though.

ct
04-27-2006, 12:45 PM
No absolutely not. I don't like that trade, it's sound too risky. If I see Lawson there at 20, Im taking him.

I would have to agree with you here. This crazy idea I had is an 'on-the-clock' deal, only if we don't see that potential stud pass-rusher @20.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 12:45 PM
Then you haven't watched him play.

Better than Harrison in his prime? No. Better than him now? Yes.
He just tore his ACL...

AND, apparently you haven't seen all of the mediocre WR's Favre has turned into pretty solid players.

Is Walker a good player? Yes. Is he the same player coming off an ACL injury? Who knows. Is he a top tier WR? No, not yet.

David Boston had one good year once, too.

I'm not giving up anymore than a 2nd rounder, AT BEST. The dude isn't even going to play for his current team, they really have no leverage.

HolmeZz
04-27-2006, 12:46 PM
I'd rather have Parker in the slot than Hall.

The team's too much in love with Hall's playmaking ability to not have him at the 3 IMO.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 12:46 PM
I'm sick of the defense company line.

The team isn't going to turn the defense around with a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th rounder this year.

your saying totally neglect the D? For something KC doesn't necessarily need with a player who's comming off a major injury?

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 12:48 PM
The team's too much in love with Hall's playmaking ability to not have him at the 3 IMO.
Dick Vermeil isn't the head coach anymore.

I think Hall turned into a fine WR. He sure accelerates much faster than Samie Parker...

I'm sure Hall/Parker will more or less split time in the slot if the Chiefs were to trade for Walker.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 12:51 PM
Nice post, Mr. RedBull.

If you check my football-related posts, you'll see that I am also very much in favor of adding a pass rush threat to our D. Our lack of an effective pass rush either from the middle or from the end opposite Jared is probably this team's most glaring overall weakness. A better rush would certainly improve the performance of our d-backs.

Thank you Fax. I just wanna comment, our passrush is the biggest weakness on the team. Having 2 good passrushers coming off the edge also opens up room for your DT's. With that being said, I think Manny Lawson should be the guy we take at 20 if he is there. It is amazing what a stud passrusher can do.

However, as has been stated, the draft is a crap-shoot. Barring Herm's conservative nature, we may be forced once again into the position of having to outscore the enemy. Can we or can we not? That's the question. The draft is a crap-shoot, I agree. I think we can outscore anybody. As long as Green and the O-line is healthy, and LJ is running we'll be ok.

I agree fully with both your sentiment and your logic. But, if we have the opportunity to pull down an impact WR we should probably strongly consider it. We've been flying on one wing when it comes to WRs too.

I hope that an improvement on D and the addition of a good receiver are not mutually exclusive achievements this year.

FAX

In all honesty, I do like Javon Walker...but if we are gonna get him, we are gonna have to give up a 1st round pick. That's a big sacrifice. Instead, what I would do, is look after the June 1st cuts, and see if there is a guy out there that can contribute at the WR position....he doesn't have to be a javon Walker, but a solid contributor...Im just not sold on giving up a draft pick, for a guy coming off rehab, not only that, then we gotta talk $$$ too.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 12:52 PM
Amen.

Some people have a true hardon over draft picks. The goal is for that player to become a star that you draft.

If you trade a draft pick (not your first) for a top talent, what's the problem?
a few reasons...


1. because the established star you trade for almost always comes with a huge contract along with the trade ... double cost

2. said player almost always drops in production (at least temporarily) because they move to a new system and all the adjustment that come with a new situation.

3. unlike a young draft pick who has a cheap salary during the first year or 2 it takes to get going .. that star you just traded for is getting paid premium bucks during the learning/adjustment period.


not saying i don't want walker or stars ... just that it's complicated

Rausch
04-27-2006, 12:54 PM
If we could get him for a 2nd I'd do it in a heartbeat...

dirk digler
04-27-2006, 12:56 PM
Carl judges WR's about as well as he does QB's. It is laughable to say that Walker is a top #5 WR.

With that being said I would give up our #2 pick for him since that pick always sucks for us anyway.

RedThat
04-27-2006, 12:57 PM
Um....what he said.

Seriously, it's been said numerous times this week by Carl that he gets he last say, end of story. He's had the last say for the last 16 years and he's been terrible.

Ok...when has Carl made the final decisions and overrided his scouting staff, and coaching staff? Once I recall, and LJ was the pick.

Aside from that, if your going to place blame, blame freak'n Lynn Stiles for completely sucking monkey balls on first day draft picks over the years....Im so glad he is gone.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 12:57 PM
your saying totally neglect the D? For something KC doesn't necessarily need with a player who's comming off a major injury?

Of course I'm not saying to totally neglect the d.

And I disagree about the need for a WR.

Brock
04-27-2006, 01:04 PM
David Boston had one good year once, too.

This is in the running for dumbest thing ever said on Chiefsplanet.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:06 PM
This is in the running for dumbest thing ever said on Chiefsplanet.
why? Because people are saying Javon Walker is a top 3 WR when, they are going by ONE good year?

Do you not understand the comparison? It's ok if you don't, I understand not everyone is blessed with common sense.

Miles
04-27-2006, 01:10 PM
For a second would be a hell of a nice trade.

MahiMike
04-27-2006, 01:11 PM
I don't get it. Why does an offensive player intrigue some people here?
Javon Walker is a damn fine WR, but, if we got him and gave up our first day picks, I'd be pissed.

Screw offense man. Go defense. Why Offense when you know your team has been one of the most prolific and well established offense the last 5 years?

Look, we hardly did anything to improve our defense so far in FA. At least we have the draft to look forward to and 3 first day picks that could fill significant holes and needs on defense. That's more important! This team needs passrushers, corners, safeties you name it. WR isn't a necessity on this team. Let's not forget about the Kennisons, Parkers, and Gonzalezs, they've all done a fine job. You gotta think balance people.

If we get Walker, we gonna have to sacrife some picks for sure, and that means we lose out on defense. Once again, call me pissed if that happens, and I won't watch football this year.

We definitely need to concentrate on our offense. 6 huge reasons:

No more Priest
No more Tony R.
No quality WRs
Old O-line
Old QB
No more offensive-minded HC

and most importantly...

No Al Saunders!!!

Don't just think we'll flip the switch without Al and pick up where we left off. I predict 10 fewer pts/game without some sort of upgrade here.

A proven player at any position in the NFL is better than any 'chance' pick in the NFL draft. And when you throw in the fact that he's very good, this is a no brainer. Quit dickin around and make the trade.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 01:12 PM
Ok...when has Carl made the final decisions and overrided his scouting staff, and coaching staff? Once I recall, and LJ was the pick.

Aside from that, if your going to place blame, blame freak'n Lynn Stiles for completely sucking monkey balls on first day draft picks over the years....Im so glad he is gone.
we have no idea when or how much Carl decides stuff



but we do know that Carl is responsible for it all

Cave Johnson
04-27-2006, 01:12 PM
why? Because people are saying Javon Walker is a top 3 WR when, they are going by ONE good year?

Do you not understand the comparison? It's ok if you don't, I understand not everyone is blessed with common sense.

Walker had, what, 9 touchdowns in 2003. In what universe is that not a good year?

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 01:16 PM
Walker had, what, 9 touchdowns in 2003. In what universe is that not a good year?

walker is good ... how good is another question


i've seen him make catches on throws that Trent Green would of never even tried ... not sure Green could make them even if he did try.


i seriously doubt Walker's production will be the same without Favre chucking and ducking all over the place.

Brock
04-27-2006, 01:17 PM
why? Because people are saying Javon Walker is a top 3 WR when, they are going by ONE good year?

Do you not understand the comparison? It's ok if you don't, I understand not everyone is blessed with common sense.

I think you need to look at the stats again. If you can read.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 01:17 PM
why? Because people are saying Javon Walker is a top 3 WR when, they are going by ONE good year?

Do you not understand the comparison? It's ok if you don't, I understand not everyone is blessed with common sense.

You're a ****stick.

Keep believing he is David Boston, haha.

Miles
04-27-2006, 01:20 PM
why? Because people are saying Javon Walker is a top 3 WR when, they are going by ONE good year?

Do you not understand the comparison? It's ok if you don't, I understand not everyone is blessed with common sense.

Its not exactly difficult to figure out why Boston's production dropped after his two good years.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-27-2006, 01:23 PM
I would do it, but only because I trust Herman's ability to find us defensive talent later in the draft better than DV's.

Chances are, Walker will end up being a Bronco anyway.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:24 PM
Not once did I say he was David Boston.

I said, David Boston had a good year once, too.

Meaning, it's a bit early to tell whether or not Javon Walker is the 3rd best WR in the league.

ESPECIALLY coming off an ACL injury.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:25 PM
koren robinson had a good year, too.

Is he a top 3 WR?

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:25 PM
koren robinson had a good year, too.

Is he a top 3 WR?
his 2002 numbers were sick!!!

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:26 PM
his 2002 numbers were sick!!!
AND HE WAS A TOP 10 DRAFT PICK! AND HE'S NEVER TORN HIS ACL!

Brock
04-27-2006, 01:26 PM
Not once did I say he was David Boston.

I said, David Boston had a good year once, too.

Meaning, it's a bit early to tell whether or not Javon Walker is the 3rd best WR in the league.

ESPECIALLY coming off an ACL injury.

Yes, moron, I'm aware of what you said. Walker had 700 yards and 9 TDs in his second year, and over a thousand yards in his second year.

That's more that ONE GOOD YEAR. :rolleyes:

Miles
04-27-2006, 01:32 PM
koren robinson had a good year, too.

Is he a top 3 WR?

Naming a second WR who's production dropped when he had off the field issues is really helping your argument.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:34 PM
Naming a second WR who's production dropped when he had off the field issues is really helping your argument.
Fine.

Marcus Robinson.

I believe he had a great year with Chicago, INJURED HIS KNEE, and was never the same.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 01:35 PM
Yes, moron, I'm aware of what you said. Walker had 700 yards and 9 TDs in his second year, and over a thousand yards in his second year.

That's more that ONE GOOD YEAR. :rolleyes:
700 yards is a good year?!

WELL THEN HELL, let's bring back Johnnie Morton! He was the king of 700 yards!

vailpass
04-27-2006, 01:40 PM
Update as of today:

Article Launched: 4/27/2006 11:58 AM

denver broncos
Broncos zeroing in on Walker

By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com

The Broncos have taken another step in their quest for a veteran playmaking receiver. The team is bringing disgruntled Green Bay receiver Javon Walker in for a visit Friday, an NFL source confirmed.

Denver has been monitoring Walker, who has asked to be traded from Green Bay. Walker, who visited New Orleans this morning, is likely to be traded by Saturday's draft. Green Bay is looking for a high-draft pick. Denver, looking for a receiver in the draft, has the No. 15 pick.

Walker is coming off a torn ACL and is entering the final year of his contract.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_3758964

Miles
04-27-2006, 01:42 PM
Fine.

Marcus Robinson.

I believe he had a great year with Chicago, INJURED HIS KNEE, and was never the same.

He had a serious back injury one year then tore his ACL and MCL the following season.

Frankie
04-27-2006, 01:44 PM
What kind of compensation are we talking about? Has anyone heard?
I heard Denver would give them their 2nd for walker. Ours is a higher position. So maybe our 2nd. I'm conflicted with this. Certainly don't want us to give them our 1st.

FAX
04-27-2006, 01:44 PM
Plummer to Walker.

The final ambulatory option for an aged repairman.

FAX

jspchief
04-27-2006, 01:45 PM
koren robinson had a good year, too.

Is he a top 3 WR?Have you watched him play at all? Or are you just looking at NFL.com to determine how good he is.

If you've seen him play very much at all, you wouldn't be talking about David Boston and Koren Robinson as comparable.

If you want to disagree that he's good, go ahead. But right now you're making an ass of yourself in the process.

HerculesRockefell
04-27-2006, 01:46 PM
I heard Denver would give them their 2nd for walker. Ours is a higher position. So maybe our 2nd. I'm conflicted with this. Certainly don't want us to give them our 1st.

The only confirmed offer is the Lelie and their 6th round pick. People have speculated that Denver traded down with San Fran to get a higher 2nd to give to the Pack.

Frankie
04-27-2006, 01:50 PM
The only confirmed offer is the Lelie and their 6th round pick. People have speculated that Denver traded down with San Fran to get a higher 2nd to give to the Pack.
:hmmm: Woods+bartee+5th :p
Additional perk for GB: They'd have a wooden D backfield (Woods and Woodson.)

nychief
04-27-2006, 01:51 PM
carl is just trying to drive up the price. nuff said. Wimbley here we come.

Inspector
04-27-2006, 02:03 PM
After reading the posts in this thread I would say I can go along with the idea of giving up a #2 for Walker. Those arguments have swayed me the most.

I also see and understand some of the opposing views.

There are several guys that really, really know their football, where I'm just doing good to squeeze in the Chiefs games. So I certainly can not keep up with the knowledge of some of you guys.

I guess that's why I don't think I could be comfortable labeling anyone as a moron or ****stick or anything like that.

Well...except for maybe myself. I do tend to be a moronic ****stick at times.

Unless we're discussing pie, which I am considered to be an expert.

beavis
04-27-2006, 02:05 PM
I think Hall turned into a fine WR
Ehhh??? :hmmm:

tk13
04-27-2006, 02:06 PM
I would be all for this. Walker would be great in our offense. Just because Trent doesn't have Favre's arm doesn't mean we can't use him.... when Trent had Holt and Bruce to throw to, he put up sickening numbers. He would find Javon Walker.

I do NOT want to see Denver get him. That's just what we need. Another elite WR burning up our secondary.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 02:09 PM
There are several guys that really, really know their football, where I'm just doing good to squeeze in the Chiefs games. So I certainly can not keep up with the knowledge of some of you guys.

I guess that's why I don't think I could be comfortable labeling anyone as a moron or ****stick or anything like that.Don't be silly. You don't have to know anything about the subject at hand to call other people morons. If they don't agree with your opinion, you just call them a f*ckstick. Hell, it's practically Chiefsplanet policy.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 02:10 PM
I would be all for this. Walker would be great in our offense. Just because Trent doesn't have Favre's arm doesn't mean we can't use him.... when Trent had Holt and Bruce to throw to, he put up sickening numbers. He would find Javon Walker.

I do NOT want to see Denver get him. That's just what we need. Another elite WR burning up our secondary.Agree on both counts.

I you guys think Rod Smith has been a pain in our ass, wait until Walker gets to Denver. This would actually worry me a lot more than Moss to Oakland.

Inspector
04-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Don't be silly. You don't have to know anything about the subject at hand to call other people morons. If they don't agree with your opinion, you just call them a f*ckstick. Hell, it's practically Chiefsplanet policy.

Hmmm... good point.

You may have just found me a way to make this place even more fun!




Now...I just need to run across one of those morons.

Or a ****stick. I'll take either.

The Bad Guy
04-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Fine.

Marcus Robinson.

I believe he had a great year with Chicago, INJURED HIS KNEE, and was never the same.

Yes. Guys with torn ACLs never recover at receiver. Never.

JSP,

You're right.

You must call someone a ****stick to be a legit Chiefsplanet member. That's why I do it all the time.

chiefsfaninNC
04-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Trade #20 for #36. We'd get a 1st round-caliber WR for only dropping 16 picks down. :clap:


That would be too good to be true.

Inspector
04-27-2006, 02:13 PM
You bunch of moronic ****sticks.











wow, that felt kinda good.

tk13
04-27-2006, 02:13 PM
Agree on both counts.

I you guys think Rod Smith has been a pain in our ass, wait until Walker gets to Denver. This would actually worry me a lot more than Moss to Oakland.
Me too, he would play hard all the time and Shanahan would know how to use him.

Rausch
04-27-2006, 02:16 PM
Yes. Guys with torn ACLs never recover at receiver. Never.

JSP,

You're right.

You must call someone a ****stick to be a legit Chiefsplanet member. That's why I do it all the time.

What did Priest Holmes injure in college again?...

Rausch
04-27-2006, 02:18 PM
Comartie and Walker would complete my day 1.

Carl could use the 3rd round pick card as a drink coaster and I'd still be happy...

HerculesRockefell
04-27-2006, 02:19 PM
What did Priest Holmes injure in college again?...

Gotta love the "well other guys have come back from it" logic. Walker's damaged goods until he proves he's back on the field.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 02:20 PM
Comartie and Walker would complete my day 1.

Carl could use the 3rd round pick card as a drink coaster and I'd still be happy...Getting Walker would be akin to landing Surtain last year (better IMO). We already know that at least one draft pick was spent on a guy that will be an immediate starter.

That alone makes the off-seasom easier to stomach.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2006, 02:20 PM
. Wimbley here we come.


:banghead:

HC_Chief
04-27-2006, 02:22 PM
With KC's #2 draft history in mind, I believe it wise to trade it for an established player; that way we'd get at least one or two good years out of the pick.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 02:22 PM
Gotta love the "well other guys have come back from it" logic. Walker's damaged goods until he proves he's back on the field.I think it sets a precedent that players can come back from that type of injury. Take into account he'll have had an entire year to rehab, and I think the risk is small.

Teams wouldn't be pursuing him if he was damaged goods.

tk13
04-27-2006, 02:23 PM
Comartie and Walker would complete my day 1.

Carl could use the 3rd round pick card as a drink coaster and I'd still be happy...
FSU homer... :)

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2006, 02:46 PM
There are several issues with Javon Walker that would make me hesitant to trade a first round choice and some of those have been touched upon, others not.

1. ACL recovery. I know that it's common for guys to come back fully healthy from that injury, but if you're giving up a #1, you'd better be positive he can fully recover.

2. QB play. We all know that Favre is well into the backside of his career but he does make throws that TG can't. I don't really consider TG a "Vertical Passer", so I'm not sure how well he'd fit into the current system. I've watched GB on plenty of occasions but have never watched his route running, which is imperative in this system.

3. Level of competition. This hasn't been mentioned much but the level of competition, especially in the NFC Central hasn't been that great as of late, and the Bears had not ascended to their current level of play in 2004. Walker played twice against such "Powerhouses" as the Lions, Bears and Vikings, all of which we definitely low in the defensive rankings. They also faced the Titans & Texans that year. In looking at Walker's 2004 numbers, he played well against Tennessee, Dallas, Jax, Indy (200yds) and Chicago but against all other teams, he had less than 100 yard (and in several, less than 50).

4. Signing Bonus. This guy is going to want at least 7-10 million upfront. As much as I'd love to have a real number one receiver, is it wise, at this juncture, to have that much invested in an offensive player coming off serious injury?

If the Chiefs were able to grab Walker with the #2 and possibly get a fifth or sixth in return, I'd be all for it. The number 20 overall seems to be too steep, IMO.

The Poz
04-27-2006, 02:47 PM
Well, they're starting to budge:
Packers | Team may accept a second-round pick for J. Walker
Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:33:00 -0700

Pete Dougherty, of PackersNews.com, reports the Green Bay Packers want a first-round draft pick in exchange for WR Javon Walker. However, a source said there's always the chance they'd settle for a second-rounder from the New Orleans Saints or Denver Broncos. New Orleans has second pick of the second round, which is pick No. 34 overall. Denver has the fifth pick of the second round, which is No. 37 overall.

Also this:
Packers | Driver disgruntled over team's failure to redo contract
Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:47:01 -0700

Michael Smith, of ESPN.com, reports Green Bay Packers WR Donald Driver is mad that the team has not re-done his deal and wants to be traded or released.

The Packers front office must be the cheapest bunch of pricks in the NFL. No wonder Brett didn't want to come back. Someone must have had a gun to his head.

JBucc
04-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Packers | Team may accept a second-round pick for J. Walker
Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:33:00 -0700

Give it to them!

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 03:20 PM
Now the more I think about it Javon Walker wouldnt help us get to the playoffs. This team has 4 MAJOR holes on defense: DE,DT,CB,S. And really even both safety positions because theyre both slow as piss. Antonio Cromartie or Manny Lawson are my favorites to be a first round pick. People say hes too small, myself included, but someone pointed out to me that Jason Taylor and Javon Kearse came into the league around the same weight as Lawson is now, so in that aspect, Manny Lawson is my pick. We need Dline help more than anything right now. It all starts out up front, this includes on both sides of the ball. Our pass defense will not get better unless we have a good pass rush. If not, teams will continue to throw on us all day.

CoMoChief
04-27-2006, 03:21 PM
Give it to them!


They wouldnt want our pick, its too low. They're willing to give up Walker for a high 2nd round pick like from Denver or New Orleans which would still be a top 40 pick.

Kclee
04-27-2006, 03:33 PM
Now...I just need to run across one of those morons.

Or a ****stick. I'll take either.


:Scanlon:

Huh? I thought I heard my name.......

Count Zarth
04-27-2006, 03:36 PM
Now the more I think about it Javon Walker wouldnt help us get to the playoffs.

You're wrong. Javon Walker would have helped us win against Philadelphia, New York and Buffalo last year when our offense was stalling for huge portions or all of the game.

Rausch
04-27-2006, 03:53 PM
FSU homer... :)

They got a few good D lineman coming out this year too, so I hear...

o:-)

The Poz
04-27-2006, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE=BSPimpDude]Antonio Cromartie or Manny Lawson are my favorites to be a first round pick. People say hes too small, myself included, but someone pointed out to me that Jason Taylor and Javon Kearse came into the league around the same weight as Lawson is now, so in that aspect, Manny Lawson is my pick. We need Dline help more than anything right now.

I agree with both of those guys and true about Lawson's size. Look at other top DE's in the league:
John Abraham 6-4/258
Derrick Burgess 6-2/260
Robert Mathis 6-2/235
Adewale Ogunleye 6-4/260
Jeff Posey 6-4/241
Greg Spires 6-1/265
Demarcus Ware 6-4/255

With Lawson at 6-5/241 He has room to grow, at least another 15 pounds.
Rare athletic ability with outstanding speed and a great burst.

We need to keep our first rounder to try and land this guy.

Valiant
04-27-2006, 04:27 PM
**** yeah he would be sweet with our team... We would have an actual number 1 WR... No more #1 CB lining up on TonyG.. I would be happy with a 2nd rd pick or lower for him...

Frankie
04-27-2006, 04:31 PM
With Lawson at 6-5/241 He has room to grow, at least another 15 pounds.
Rare athletic ability with outstanding speed and a great burst.

We need to keep our first rounder to try and land this guy.I think the light DE is a temporary fad. As soon as offenses figure out how to defend them they will be a liability. I don't want an undersized long term player with our 1st pick at 20. If we traded down, then maybe.

Brock
04-27-2006, 04:40 PM
700 yards is a good year?!

WELL THEN HELL, let's bring back Johnnie Morton! He was the king of 700 yards!

Yeah. While we're making these irrelevant comparisons, Johnnie Morton was almost as good as Walker in his second year.

Ralphy Boy
04-27-2006, 05:01 PM
The question is: Who is likely to be available when we pick in the 20th spot that would be a better fit in KC?
If we have any real interest in Walker, but aren't quite sold on giving up our 1st for him for fear that someone we like better will be there, then we should work out a contract with him in advance and roll the dice that nobody else will trade for him. If our player isn't there then we make the trade.

Green Bay has had far too much drama with Walker and Favre to let him stick around, so he will be traded no later than saturday.

Is anyone on here honestly sold enough on a player in this draft, that they'd rather have said player over Walker? I'm not, but then I haven't followed the draft as much this year either.

One thing to consider is that we've spent a lot of money as an organization evaluating players AND we just put Kuharich in charge of the draft. The most important player in any draft is your first rounder and to trade that pick away after you've just put a new guy in charge of that pick is at the very least "difficult" and could be seen as a slap in the face. Not that I personally care how he'd view it, but office politics play a role.

All of that being said, I don't think we trade our first for him and I don't think our second will get the deal done. Some other organization will offer up a high 2nd or low (lower than ours) first. Won't surprise me if he ends up in Denver or Philly for their 2nd. My guess is Denver, who has a higher 2nd.

jspchief
04-27-2006, 05:43 PM
The question is: Who is likely to be available when we pick in the 20th spot that would be a better fit in KC?
If we have any real interest in Walker, but aren't quite sold on giving up our 1st for him for fear that someone we like better will be there, then we should work out a contract with him in advance and roll the dice that nobody else will trade for him. If our player isn't there then we make the trade.

The downside to that suggestion is GB also gets to see who's left at 20 and could decide it's no longer worth it. Although all that does is bring us right back to where we were all along.

nychief
04-27-2006, 06:30 PM
I like Javon Walker, but A first rnder is too much.

the Talking Can
04-27-2006, 06:52 PM
Chiefs have a bad history trading draft picks for injured players: Holmes, Green, Roaf....we always get screwed. Damn you Carl!



(i'd gladly trade a second...Kennison, Gonzo, Trent aren't getting younger...LJ and Walker would be the foundation of a good offense moving forward, and I still think Parker will develop into a solid #2...)

Mile High Mania
04-27-2006, 06:58 PM
You're wrong. Javon Walker would have helped us win against Philadelphia, New York and Buffalo last year when our offense was stalling for huge portions or all of the game.

Technically... Walker was unable to play for 99% of last season, so he wouldn't have helped you.

Count Zarth
04-27-2006, 07:11 PM
Technically... Walker was unable to play for 99% of last season, so he wouldn't have helped you.

A healthy Javon Walker, obviously.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2006, 07:45 PM
POSTED 9:00 p.m. EDT, April 27, 2006

PACK WANT FIRST-ROUNDER FOR WALKER

A league source tells us that the Green Bay Packers want a first-round draft choice for receiver Javon Walker, and that the Pack don't intend to deal him for anything less than that.

Although such talk could merely be puffery, with Green Bay possibly willing to take a two or a three, the Packers have assumed a hard line to date regarding Walker. It wouldn't surprise us at all to see G.M. Ted Thompson dig in his heels, if for no reason other than to prove a point.

What confuses us most regarding the Walker situation is the Packers' decision to wait until the eve of the draft to permit Javon to search for a trade partner. Published reports already have placed Walker in New Orleans and Denver for visits. We've heard that a trip to Philly is also in the works.

But as we explained on Wednesday night, too much needs to happen in a compressed time frame. A deal must be struck not only as to compensation between the Packers and Walker's new team, but also as to an extention of Walker's contract, which expires after the 2006 season.

With Green Bay holding out for a first-rounder and Walker wanting (as we've heard) $10 million to $12 million in bonus money on a new contract, we don't see a trade happening any time soon.

nychief
04-27-2006, 07:45 PM
Javon Walker has had one exceptional season. Been a malcontent, and blown out his knee. I think he is a young talent, but the 20 pick is too steep.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 07:49 PM
Once again, I never said players couldn't recover from an ACL...I said, some don't.

rad
04-27-2006, 07:51 PM
For my 100th post, I'd like to add that Walker isn't worth a first rounder. No way. He's talented, sure, but if we need to trade away a first rounder, it would probably be better spent on a defensive playmaker, which there are none out there worth it.

bringbackmarty
04-27-2006, 09:35 PM
Javon Walker and Donald Driver for our second and third round picks. no more than that.

bringbackmarty
04-27-2006, 09:36 PM
throw in farve too, he's got some playoff experience.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2006, 10:24 PM
Javon Walker has had one exceptional season. Been a malcontent, and blown out his knee. I think he is a young talent, but the 20 pick is too steep.
finally, someone who understands...

Taco John
04-27-2006, 11:59 PM
Bah. This is a smoke screen. Just Carl trying to drive up the price for Denver.

Frankie
04-28-2006, 12:14 AM
Brandon Marshal with the 5th. That would be intriguing.

The Bad Guy
04-28-2006, 01:20 AM
Bah. This is a smoke screen. Just Carl trying to drive up the price for Denver.

Yeah, like we don't have a need for a receiver or nothing.

I'm sure your stellar offer of a 6th rounder and Lelie is going to get it done.

CoMoChief
04-28-2006, 01:32 AM
You're wrong. Javon Walker would have helped us win against Philadelphia, New York and Buffalo last year when our offense was stalling for huge portions or all of the game.


Philly game - you mean when the defense let the Philly offense come back from a 20+ point deficit at home at halftime??? How did the offense let the team down in that one???????????????? I would seriously like to know.

Buffalo - It was clear to everyone that our offensive line missed Willie Roaf. It was that game where Jordan Black made their defense look like an All Pro defense. Javon Walker in that game wouldnt have made Trent Green get rid of the ball sooner. Should I mention Eric Warfield that game? Lets not be retarded about this game ok?

New York Giants - That was a tackling nightmare and I think you know that. Everytime anyone sees the Chiefs defense on TV or ESPN thats the game that they show. It was terrible, flat out terrible. Javon Walker would have done nothing to do with that game and you know it.

ALL OF THE GAMES YOU'VE MENTIONED HAVE BEEN LOST BY THE DEFENSE, NOT THE OFFENSE!!!!!!!

Count Zarth
04-28-2006, 01:34 AM
Philly game - you mean when the defense let the Philly offense come back from a 20+ point deficit at home at halftime??? How did the offense let the team down in that one???????????????? I would seriously like to know.

Go back and watch the game. The offense only scored 24 points, 7 of which came on a meaningless drive at the end of the game. The offense did almost NOTHING after the first half.



Buffalo - It was clear to everyone that our offensive line missed Willie Roaf. It was that game where Jordan Black made their defense look like an All Pro defense. Javon Walker in that game wouldnt have made Trent Green get rid of the ball sooner. Should I mention Eric Warfield that game? Lets not be retarded about this game ok?

Spin it however you like. Our defense played well enough to win. Javon Walker would have helped our offense score more than 3 points.


New York Giants - That was a tackling nightmare and I think you know that. Everytime anyone sees the Chiefs defense on TV or ESPN thats the game that they show. It was terrible, flat out terrible. Javon Walker would have done nothing to do with that game and you know it.

Yeah the defense sucked. But what people ignore is that the defense didn't collapse until the second half. The offense, again, was doing nothing and there were SEVERAL dropped passes.


ALL OF THE GAMES YOU'VE MENTIONED HAVE BEEN LOST BY THE DEFENSE, NOT THE OFFENSE!!!!!!!

Yeah. Not really.

Taco John
04-28-2006, 01:37 AM
Yeah, like we don't have a need for a receiver or nothing.

I'm sure your stellar offer of a 6th rounder and Lelie is going to get it done.


I'll believe Carl is honestly willing to make a trade when I see it.

Jim Jones
04-28-2006, 01:37 AM
Now the more I think about it Javon Walker wouldnt help us get to the playoffs. This team has 4 MAJOR holes on defense: DE,DT,CB,S. And really even both safety positions because theyre both slow as piss. Antonio Cromartie or Manny Lawson are my favorites to be a first round pick. People say hes too small, myself included, but someone pointed out to me that Jason Taylor and Javon Kearse came into the league around the same weight as Lawson is now, so in that aspect, Manny Lawson is my pick. We need Dline help more than anything right now. It all starts out up front, this includes on both sides of the ball. Our pass defense will not get better unless we have a good pass rush. If not, teams will continue to throw on us all day.


Yep.

Look, Walker is a guy that had one great season and ever since then has been nothing but a pain in the Packers ass. YES, Favre shouldn't have gotten involved in the situation, but the fact remains that Walker has been a prick over the past two years about his contract.

I don't go by the "draft by need" philosophy, in terms of drafting a certain position for "need", but I DO feel we need to draft a defensive player at some position. Javon Walker is a big name so people fawn over him, but he really isn't a solution to our problem, he's just a guy who would look nice on paper. We can try to patch things up each year for that "one more run", but that run ain't happening. We're just going to keep going 8-8 until we start building the defense.

Miles
04-28-2006, 01:43 AM
Yep.

Look, Walker is a guy that had one great season and ever since then has been nothing but a pain in the Packers ass. YES, Favre shouldn't have gotten involved in the situation, but the fact remains that Walker has been a prick over the past two years over his contract.


He had greatly outperformed his contract and was trying to get something better. Hell he even fired his agent and reported when the Packers wouldn't deal. I don't see anything he did differently than many other players, including Preist, have done.

CoMoChief
04-28-2006, 02:04 AM
Go back and watch the game. The offense only scored 24 points, 7 of which came on a meaningless drive at the end of the game. The offense did almost NOTHING after the first half.




Spin it however you like. Our defense played well enough to win. Javon Walker would have helped our offense score more than 3 points.



Yeah the defense sucked. But what people ignore is that the defense didn't collapse until the second half. The offense, again, was doing nothing and there were SEVERAL dropped passes.



Yeah. Not really.

Well, youre obviously blind.

No team should blow a 20pt+ lead after the first half. Our offense DOMINATED them in the first half. No way we wouldve needed a WR like Walker in that game. Did you forget that we let TO run all over us??? Our offense isnt the reason they came back in that game and you know it. Walker will not solve the problems on defense. You should go hook up with Vermeil because obviously your stance on our defense is similar to his.

The Buffalo game was a game we shouldve won. Our Oline was AWFUL in that game. Trent Green had how many INT's that game?? We let up the most sacks in that game. You can have Peyton Manning back there without an Oline and he wouldnt have done anything that game. I believe it was Eric Warfield (DEFENSE) who let up those two TD's that game, once again not the offense's fault. 2 plays, 2 TD's, thats all it took. Once again would have Javon Walker helped our Oline? Last time I checked he played WR not OT. Its clear to everyone that our offense sucks without Roaf.

What you seem to ignore about the BUF game was that we cant function at all if our Oline sucks like it did that game. NO QB CAN DO ANYTHING IF THE OLINE SUCKS. Look at David Carr for HOU. He's not as bad as his numbers show, his Oline sucks so bad it prohibits him from doing anything.

The Bad Guy
04-28-2006, 02:12 AM
I'll believe Carl is honestly willing to make a trade when I see it.

Of course because you always think it's about your Broncos.

CoMoChief
04-28-2006, 02:14 AM
According to GoChiefs:

- Our OFFENSE was the reason we lost to the Eagles, not the defense that let up a 20+ lead after halftime.

- The lack of WR play was the reason we lost against BUF, not our Oline (Jordan Black) or Eric Burnfield.

- Did anyone forget the Dallas and Giants game? I guess that was our offense's fault too right GoChiefs?

You are so blind it makes me sick.

Taco John
04-28-2006, 02:26 AM
Of course because you always think it's about your Broncos.



It usually is when Carl comes into a deal behind us. But I'll make you a bet: I'll bet that Carl doesn't execute a deal with Green Bay. I just don't believe he's serious about this.

How about a six pack of local beer?

Brock
04-28-2006, 07:00 AM
Philly game - you mean when the defense let the Philly offense come back from a 20+ point deficit at home at halftime??? How did the offense let the team down in that one???????????????? I would seriously like to know.

By taking the 3rd quarter and most of the 4th off?

KCTitus
04-28-2006, 07:08 AM
Chiefs have a bad history trading draft picks for injured players: Holmes, Green, Roaf....we always get screwed. Damn you Carl!

Ahem...Holmes was not a trade, he was a UFA that Carl overpaid for. This was shortsighted because because he was a FA reject from Baltimore that lost his starting job to a rookie, had a history of knee problems, was really only a 3rd down back that looked a lot like Donnell Bennett and KC already had their feature back in TRich. The Raiders got the better of the two FA RB's that offseason...clearly.

Mile High Mania
04-28-2006, 07:11 AM
Ahem...Holmes was not a trade, he was a UFA that Carl overpaid for. This was shortsighted because because he was a FA reject from Baltimore that lost his starting job to a rookie, had a history of knee problems, was really only a 3rd down back that looked a lot like Donnell Bennett and KC already had their feature back in TRich. The Raiders got the better of the two FA RB's that offseason...clearly.

Wow, and all this time I thought you guys did well to sign Holmes. Ah well.

KCTitus
04-28-2006, 07:14 AM
Wow, and all this time I thought you guys did well to sign Holmes. Ah well.

Did KC win any SB's or even playoff games with Holmes?

jspchief
04-28-2006, 07:20 AM
Ahem...Holmes was not a trade, he was a UFA that Carl overpaid for. This was shortsighted because because he was a FA reject from Baltimore that lost his starting job to a rookie, had a history of knee problems, was really only a 3rd down back that looked a lot like Donnell Bennett and KC already had their feature back in TRich. The Raiders got the better of the two FA RB's that offseason...clearly.This post must be dripping with sarcasm.

Anyone but Titus and I might believe it was literal.

jlscorpio
04-28-2006, 08:34 AM
There's no way this happens anyway. DAMMIT CARL!

bringbackmarty
04-28-2006, 08:40 AM
According to GoChiefs:

- Our OFFENSE was the reason we lost to the Eagles, not the defense that let up a 20+ lead after halftime.

- The lack of WR play was the reason we lost against BUF, not our Oline (Jordan Black) or Eric Burnfield.

- Did anyone forget the Dallas and Giants game? I guess that was our offense's fault too right GoChiefs?

You are so blind it makes me sick.

dallas was lj's fault.
the others defense, you are right.
walker, only if the price is right.

CoMoChief
04-28-2006, 08:45 AM
dallas was lj's fault.
the others defense, you are right.
walker, only if the price is right.


I cant blame that whole game on LJ's missed block. It was Green who fumbled the ball not LJ to begin with. If Green would have held onto the ball we wouldnt be talking about this now. Not to mention we couldnt get ANY penetration on their WEAK and young Oline in which they started 3 backups because their starters were injured. That was the game Bledsoe passed all over us.

ct
04-28-2006, 08:46 AM
If there is any truth at all to KC talking with Denver about Lelie, to me, it solidifies the theory that we're only talking to GB just to mess with Denver's attempt to obtain Walker.

CoMoChief
04-28-2006, 08:50 AM
I dont care what anyone says, our defense will continue to suck if we cant get to the QB. We could have Deion Sanders, Ty Law, Rod Woodson, and Ronnie Lott all back there in the secondary in their prime and we would still get passed on like no one's business because the QB has all day to throw and the secondary can only cover for so long, eventually someone is gonna get open. We need to address the Dline with our first pick (DE), then a DB in the 2nd, and hope Cluade Wroten is there in the 3rd round.

HC_Chief
04-28-2006, 08:51 AM
We have a solid pressure DE. What we NEED is a legit DT. Until we have someone that causes problems for the OGs and OC, the D will be soft.

morphius
04-28-2006, 08:58 AM
This post must be dripping with sarcasm.

Anyone but Titus and I might believe it was literal.
Packfan returned from the grave...

jspchief
04-28-2006, 09:17 AM
We have a solid pressure DE. What we NEED is a legit DT. Until we have someone that causes problems for the OGs and OC, the D will be soft.I agree 100% with this. I'll go as far as saying Hicks will be a solid pass rusher too if we can get a DT that can actually collapse the center of the pocket.

As it is right now, teams just need to force our DEs to the outside, and allow their QB to step up into a perfectly intact pocket. A DT that can push that pocket in allow both Allen and Hicks to get to the QB more often.

HC_Chief
04-28-2006, 09:18 AM
I agree 100% with this. I'll go as far as saying Hicks will be a solid pass rusher too if we can get a DT that can actually collapse the center of the pocket.

As it is right now, teams just need to force our DEs to the outside, and allow their QB to step up into a perfectly intact pocket. A DT that can push that pocket in allow both Allen and Hicks to get to the QB more often.

Yep :thumb:

Coogs
04-28-2006, 09:32 AM
I dont care what anyone says, our defense will continue to suck if we cant get to the QB. We could have Deion Sanders, Ty Law, Rod Woodson, and Ronnie Lott all back there in the secondary in their prime and we would still get passed on like no one's business because the QB has all day to throw and the secondary can only cover for so long, eventually someone is gonna get open. We need to address the Dline with our first pick (DE), then a DB in the 2nd, and hope Cluade Wroten is there in the 3rd round.

:thumb:

1st - Lawson
2nd - Griffin, CB, Texas
3rd - Wroten, McCargo, Dvoracek, or Wright at DT.

Amnorix
04-28-2006, 09:46 AM
Multiple reports (although maybe all stemming from the same source) say Walker is in Foxboro as I type this.

Edit -- further info - Michael Holley (formerly Boston Globe, wrote a book on the Pats and often has good sources) reports that he's there for a physical and to exchange contract discussions.

Coogs
04-28-2006, 09:52 AM
Multiple reports (although maybe all stemming from the same source) say Walker is in Foxboro as I type this.

Edit -- further info - Michael Holley (formerly Boston Globe, wrote a book on the Pats and often has good sources) reports that he's there for a physical and to exchange contract discussions.

:thumb:

Better you than Denver!

RedThat
04-28-2006, 10:16 AM
We have a solid pressure DE. What we NEED is a legit DT. Until we have someone that causes problems for the OGs and OC, the D will be soft.

I was all for drafting a DT in this draft. Or even just upgrading the D-Line in general someway, somehow?

Um.....I like DT a lot, but realistically, Ngata is the best guy out there, and he'll be gone when we pick. I think Bunkley will too. That leaves us with a passrusher, which I don't mind either because I think of it this way, having 2 good passrushers can open up room for the DT's, especially on passing downs.

You have Allen, and lets say he lines up on the left side, he'll draw attention from both the tackle, and guard...Mind you, the tightend is a receiver in this case. Then you have Lawson at RE, who will draw attention from both the tackle and the guard as well. So that leaves the center as the only guy there in middle to block, guess what? One DT will be free and unblocked. But, in most cases this probably wouldn't happen.

So, with that being said, having 2 passrushers definately changes the scheme of things in terms of what type of formations teams will use against us, and just overall game planning in general....When you have 2 passrushing threats
teams most likely will have to use a tight end as an extra blocker, or 2 tightend sets or possibly max protect with both the running back and the fullback.

What I like about having 2 good passrushers, is, it eliminates 1 of the QB's options for not having an extra receiver down the field ala TE blocking.
And, it also opens up room for the DT's when the offense is using the Offensive line to block only. But not only that, if teams have to max protect against you, screens are eliminated automatically making the WLB job less stressful.

*Point is, having 2 passrushers gives the QB less options to throw the ball, and also, free up room everywhere, and makes other guys jobs around him a lot easier. Im not worried about DT as much as I used to be.

Mr. Laz
04-28-2006, 10:24 AM
I'll go as far as saying Hicks will be a solid pass rusher too

that is just soooooooo wrong ....... you should be stripped of your Chiefs fanship. :shake:

ct
04-28-2006, 10:28 AM
1st - Lawson
2nd - Griffin, CB, Texas
3rd - Wroten, McCargo, Dvoracek, or Wright at DT.

That would freaking ROCK!!

RedThat
04-28-2006, 10:29 AM
:thumb:

1st - Lawson
2nd - Griffin, CB, Texas
3rd - Wroten, McCargo, Dvoracek, or Wright at DT.

I like that a lot. But a few corrections, I think Griffin would be a little bit of a reach in the middle of the 2nd. I don't think McCargo will be a 3rd round pick or Wroten. dvoracek yes.

Frankie
04-28-2006, 11:38 AM
I dont care what anyone says, our defense will continue to suck if we cant get to the QB. We could have Deion Sanders, Ty Law, Rod Woodson, and Ronnie Lott all back there in the secondary in their prime and we would still get passed on like no one's business because the QB has all day to throw and the secondary can only cover for so long, eventually someone is gonna get open. We need to address the Dline with our first pick (DE), then a DB in the 2nd, and hope Cluade Wroten is there in the 3rd round.
Excellent post. That has been my point all along.