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Spicy McHaggis
04-29-2006, 08:15 PM
Alright, it's way to early but let's do it. What's your reaction to our first day?

I'm also of the opinion that there seems to be a decent amount of talent left; Nance, Greg Lee among other recievers are there, Zemaitis, Demetrice Webb still on the corner market, Watson, Lewis, Harris, Jolly, Williams Wright all DT's to be had and I know we already got Hali but Adeyanju, Dumervil and Ray Edwards are still on the board too.

Encouraging, and trading up into the fourth has got to be on the minds of those in the FO tonight.

Bwana
04-29-2006, 08:15 PM
B

BigRock
04-29-2006, 08:22 PM
I liked day one. I'd give it a B.

A lot of people are saying we could have traded down and still got Hali, but I really don't know. The Giants originally picked at #24, they drafted a DE, and right after Hali was picked both ESPN and the NFL Network mentioned that their GM met with Hali and loved him. And considering the talent that was still on the board, I doubt any of the 3 teams behind us were looking to move up. They all had good players fall in their laps. I'm happy with Hali.

Pollard was a reach. But then again, I'm thrilled we got Brodie, more so than if we'd gotten Youboty or someone in the 2nd. So if they had said "well, we could get Pollard in the 3rd", we wouldn't have Croyle.

It's also kinda interesting that the Steelers passed on some of the "name" players like Bing or Sampson when they drafted a safety. You can't watch these videos of him absolutely laying guys out and not get a little excited. A reach, but I hope he works out.

Croyle I'm thrilled about, as I said. Some random guy here and I might have given us a C for the day, but Brodie makes it a solid B.

Hopefully they follow it up well tomorrow. I tend to doubt we'll trade up, though. Maybe someone will give us some 2nd day picks for Hicks or Woods. ROFL

Garcia Bronco
04-29-2006, 08:22 PM
Chiefs b+
Broncos a-
Raiders b
San Diego C

CHIEF4EVER
04-29-2006, 08:27 PM
Solid A-. Hali has the one thing you can't teach - desire and effort. He can bulk up a few pounds and be taught better technique. Decent pick. Pollard, hits like a freight train and tackles well. GREAT pick. Croyle, GREAT value in the third round.

banyon
04-29-2006, 08:28 PM
Pick 1 : C

Pick 2 : D

Pick 3: A

Avg: C+

Cormac
04-29-2006, 08:34 PM
Solid A-. Hali has the one thing you can't teach - desire and effort. He can bulk up a few pounds and be taught better technique. Decent pick. Pollard, hits like a freight train and tackles well. GREAT pick. Croyle, GREAT value in the third round.

I agree completely. At least we went for the high-motor D-lineman over the size and potential.....ie. Jared Allen vs Sims/Siavii.

In the 2nd round we added a tackler. How many fans have said that no position on our D is beyond replacement? And this was our "questionable" pick.

In the 3rd round we addressed another huge need. Croyle is an exciting prospect. I really see him being in the Trent Green mould....in terms of ability and leadership....in time.

Coach
04-29-2006, 08:40 PM
Hali - We need someone to supplant Hicks at LE and Carlos Hall can't do that. Based on his 11 sack season in the Big Ten last year and being a 1st team All American at his position in 2005 the ONLY REASON that he wasn't a top ten pick was because of his workouts.

To by quite honest, I don't care if he runs a 10 flat forty if the guy can pull 11 sacks in a 14 game season. The kid can play, so he's okay in my book. Especially with some of the jokers on our defense. And yes, he had 2 sacks last year in his junior year, but I do strongly suggest that you look at his TFL (tackles for losses) and tackles. They have increased from his Jr year to Sr year. Hopefully we'll have some T-shirts of "The Liberian Nightmare" soon.

Pollard - This one is confusing, yet at the same time, intruging. One thing is for certain that most experts agree that he is a solid tackling and weak on the coverage skills. Plus, let's see who's our safties on the roster:

Woods: Yeah, let's not go there.
Bartee: See above.
Wesley: Inconsistent at best, and is scared shitless to hit someone.
Knight: Seems to be the consistent one, but is getting old.

This one is a big ? mark.

Croyle: Good pick. I wasn't confident on Whitehurst, and I would had perferred Croyle instead. Kid's a gamer, and does actually make smart decisions.

B-

Simplex3
04-29-2006, 08:46 PM
B-

I like the Hali pick. Was it maybe a couple spots early? You never know. B+

Another f**king saftey. We draft more safties than Detroit drafts f**king receivers. D+

A QB project? We have one, or two, and we seem to ruin them all. I like the look of this kid and I'll give Herm's new staff the benefit of the doubt. A kid like this in the 3rd gets them an A.

So as we can see, it's just like any other Carl Draft Special. A slight reach in the first, a complete WTF in the second, then a nice third pick. One of these days Carl should realize he sucks in the first and second and not make those two picks himself. He'd be the God of the draft if he could just put his pride down for the first two picks.

Coach
04-29-2006, 08:50 PM
B-

I like the Hali pick. Was it maybe a couple spots early? You never know. B+

It may have been a couple spots early, but at the same time, the 49ers were 22nd, and the Giants on the 32 spot, I believe, and they selected a DE. The Giants GM was high on Hali IIRC.

OldTownChief
04-29-2006, 08:51 PM
B-

Simplex3
04-29-2006, 08:52 PM
It may have been a couple spots early, but at the same time, the 49ers were 22nd, and the Giants on the 32 spot, I believe, and they selected a DE. The Giants GM was high on Hali IIRC.
Yeah, I'm saying I would have taken him there. If you liked the guy at all that was the spot to take him in.

banyon
04-29-2006, 08:52 PM
So as we can see, it's just like any other Carl Draft Special. A slight reach in the first, a complete WTF in the second, then a nice third pick. One of these days Carl should realize he sucks in the first and second and not make those two picks himself. He'd be the God of the draft if he could just put his pride down for the first two picks.

I've heard Petro say on multiple occasions that the Chiefs turn over their drafts to the scouts on Day 2, which is why we land so many good 4th rounders.

Coach
04-29-2006, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I'm saying I would have taken him there. If you liked the guy at all that was the spot to take him in.

I agree. I would have been a bit upset if the Chiefs did get a WR, considering that our offense have been #1 in the NFL for some time, at the same time, ignoring the immediate needs on defense.

htismaqe
04-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Personally, I love the draft.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 08:56 PM
So far, and looking towards tomorrow, B-

I do like Hali a whole bunch. I like Croyle, too. Pollard is a typical Carl 2nd round reach. I'm skeptical about him, but the fact that he hits like some Hellbent demon out for souls is reassuring.

With so many interesting guys left that figure to go in the 4th, I'd give it a B if we actually had a 4th round pick to use.

Simplex3
04-29-2006, 08:57 PM
Personally, I love the draft.
I hope to be proven wrong about Pollard. If so then this was a stellar first day.

Coach
04-29-2006, 08:58 PM
Personally, I love the draft.

Ditto. The 2nd round is a big ? mark, but other than that, I got no complaints.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 08:59 PM
I hope to be proven wrong about Pollard. If so then this was a stellar first day.
Yup. This Day 1 is really hanging on whether Pollard is a player or not.

JBucc
04-29-2006, 09:00 PM
C

Hali was a good B and Croyle is a B+ A-, but what's his name was real reach imo so that brings it down.

MahiMike
04-29-2006, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I was STOKED when we got Hali. Getting Croyle in the 3rd was also very cool. Never heard of the guy in the 2nd round. All in all, a B+ for me.

htismaqe
04-29-2006, 09:04 PM
I didn't know what to think about Pollard at first, but

1) he's a safety (which I felt was a HUGE need)

2) PFW had him rated as their 4th-best S, ahead of Roman Harper, who was drafted before Pollard.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:05 PM
I didn't know what to think about Pollard at first, but

1) he's a safety (which I felt was a HUGE need)

2) PFW had him rated as their 4th-best S, ahead of Roman Harper, who was drafted before Pollard.
Who was ranked ahead of him?

htismaqe
04-29-2006, 09:06 PM
The other thing that absolutely makes this draft for me:

Round 1: Penn State
Round 2: Purdue
Round 3: Alabama

No Jackson State, no UNLV, no Washington. Two Big 10 guys, 1 SEC guy.

I realize that good players come from smaller schools sometimes, but the Chiefs aren't the right team to find them.

htismaqe
04-29-2006, 09:07 PM
Who was ranked ahead of him?

Whitner, Bullocks, and Allen.

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:07 PM
The other thing that absolutely makes this draft for me:

Round 1: Penn State
Round 2: Purdue
Round 3: Alabama

No Jackson State, no UNLV, no Washington. Two Big 10 guys, 1 SEC guy.

I realize that good players come from smaller schools sometimes, but the Chiefs aren't the right team to find them.

Good point. Usually in Day 2, the Chiefs had somewhat better luck finding players from small schools, if I am not mistaken.

Brock
04-29-2006, 09:09 PM
Who's the cock who voted F?

JBucc
04-29-2006, 09:09 PM
Who's the cock who voted F?Mecca

Brock
04-29-2006, 09:11 PM
Mecca

Oh. Yeah. I should have guessed.

greg63
04-29-2006, 09:19 PM
C

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:21 PM
And if you look at Pollard...he looks like this year's version of Thomas Davis...the 230lb Georgia safety that the Gun and the staff absolutely had their hearts set on last year before the Panthers took Davis at 14.

Just throwing this out.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:22 PM
And if you look at Pollard...he looks like this year's version of Thomas Davis...the 230lb Georgia safety that the Gun and the staff absolutely had their hearts set on last year before the Panthers took Davis at 14.

Just throwing this out.
Davis struggled last year.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:23 PM
Whitner, Bullocks, and Allen.
Bullocks, really? Hmm.

Here's a question: Why have Ko Simpson and Darnell Bing fallen like large boulders?

Ultra Peanut
04-29-2006, 09:24 PM
B+

Hali in the first and Croyle in the third: YES!
Pollard: Reach, but at least he can bring the wood.

Hali was perhaps 5-10 picks early, but you know what? If that's the guy, and you don't feel comfortable trading down/can't negotiate a deal in the "proper" range for him, you almost HAVE to pick him. At that point, the projections go out the window.

I was certain we'd go with Lawson, but when Tags said Hali I jumped into the air in excitement.

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:28 PM
Davis struggled last year.

Of course, but aren't most rookies usually graded 2-3 years after their draft year?

I mean, most of us thought Mitchell was a bust until he blossomed this past year, ironcially, his 3rd year. Same for Larry Johnson.

John_Wayne
04-29-2006, 09:29 PM
Pick #1 = B+ veru good player at a position of great need
Pick #2 = B sounds like a good player at a position of need
Pick #3 = D - we don't need a QBotF, we have Casey Printers, this was a wasted pick, we should have went with CB or WR or DT or FB or OT or G or almost anything. we don't need a QB project

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Pick #1 = B+ veru good player at a position of great need
Pick #2 = B sounds like a good player at a position of need
Pick #3 = D - we don't need a QBotF, we have Casey Printers, this was a wasted pick, we should have went with CB or WR or DT or FB or OT or G or almost anything. we don't need a QB project

I disagree Casey Printers haven't done anything in the NFL, so he's a QB project as well.

Besides, having 2 QB projects on your team is usually a good thing. More security blankets in case one doesn't work out.

Spicy McHaggis
04-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Pick #3 = D - we don't need a QBotF, we have Casey Printers, this was a wasted pick, we should have went with CB or WR or DT or FB or OT or G or almost anything. we don't need a QB project

We don't need a QBotF? Croyle was a great pick that late in the third.

Ultra Peanut
04-29-2006, 09:34 PM
Pick #3 = D - we don't need a QBotF, we have Casey PrintersROFL

Simplex3
04-29-2006, 09:36 PM
ROFL
Just when you thought that guy couldn't suprise you with his stupidity, huh?

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:40 PM
ROFL
I spat up tea when I read that, myself. "...we have Casey Printers." lol

Croyle isn't a project in my book. He has a better-than-advertised arm, can read defenses, is a smart player, and has poise. Truely has a sense of poise about him.
He's not a project, he'll learn (and bulk up, preferably) behind Trent until Trent hangs 'em up.

I personally think Cutler and Croyle are about equal prospects. Both Denver and KC have acquired their future signal callers. Should be fun to watch down the road.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:41 PM
Of course, but aren't most rookies usually graded 2-3 years after their draft year?

I mean, most of us thought Mitchell was a bust until he blossomed this past year, ironcially, his 3rd year. Same for Larry Johnson.
I agree, I just happen to think that in the 2nd we could have looked towards more immediate impact.

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:43 PM
I agree, I just happen to think that in the 2nd we could have looked towards more immediate impact.

I understand that, and I agree somewhat. But at the same time, none of our safties can really hit worth a shit.

tk13
04-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Definitely a solid B, maybe higher. But I think this draft is along the lines of how you build a team. I'm glad to have Herm along to get his fingers dirty in the draft.

It's definitely not the most popular way to do things, but I like the approach we took. Fans would rather draft guys that have off the charts measurables but maybe need some work in the actual football part of the game. We took guys who are going to go out and play hard on the field, as opposed to in the combine.

Like Pollard, people think he's slow because he runs a 4.5... So some guy that runs a 4.4 gets out there. That is one tenth of a second. Really, people don't even realize how small of a difference that is. Snap your fingers. That takes longer than one-tenth of a second. This is what we're using to judge between fast and slow. Having good instincts with pads on can make up that tenth of a second, if not more. Sometimes I think this whole thing is very flawed.

Coach
04-29-2006, 09:45 PM
I do wonder if Croyle could had been a 2nd round if he managed to stay healthy.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:48 PM
Like Pollard, people think he's slow because he runs a 4.5... So some guy that runs a 4.4 gets out there. That is one tenth of a second. Really, people don't even realize how small of a difference that is. Snap your fingers. That takes longer than one-tenth of a second. This is what we're using to judge between fast and slow. Having good instincts with pads on can make up that tenth of a second, if not more. Sometimes I think this whole thing is very flawed.
I really wish I could watch game tape of Pollard. I doubt very many of us Chiefs fans are devout Boilermaker fans, so we basically know what the scouting reports and scant few ESPN clips show us.

Thus, we hear that he's great against the run, but is a liability in coverage. We also see that he's a friggin' beast who will tear people in half with his tackling skills.

I really want to see game footage to see why teh scouts are so down o his coverage abilities.

Reaper16
04-29-2006, 09:49 PM
I do wonder if Croyle could had been a 2nd round if he managed to stay healthy.
Oh, yeah. He should have been the 4th QB taken, but you know how the draft goes. Certain guys "get hot," like Kellen Clemens, in the last two weeks and ascend up draft boards. I'm big on Croyle; I like him as potentially as much as Cutler.

tk13
04-29-2006, 09:55 PM
I really wish I could watch game tape of Pollard. I doubt very many of us Chiefs fans are devout Boilermaker fans, so we basically know what the scouting reports and scant few ESPN clips show us.

Thus, we hear that he's great against the run, but is a liability in coverage. We also see that he's a friggin' beast who will tear people in half with his tackling skills.

I really want to see game footage to see why teh scouts are so down o his coverage abilities.

Well maybe he does struggle, I don't know. I watched Purdue a couple times but didn't really pay attention to him... they had a down year last year. But I don't buy into this "he's slow" talk just because he ran a 4.5 whatever it was. I mean, really, John Lynch is slow too... he is, he is not a fast blazing safety, but he's a smart safety who puts himself in the right position and will knock your head off. Bob Sanders has quickness, but it's the same kind of thing. I really think that's what we were going for with this pick... a Sanders/Lynch type of cover 2 safety. Both of those guys are more known for their hitting than coverage skills.

I mean really, with one more safety (maybe even without one) I think we have the makings of a cover 2. There isn't really a lot of pressure on DB's that way. We can put Bell/Hali/Hicks/Allen across the line in passing situations with DJ/Mitchell/Fox flying over the field and the secondary dropping back and making plays.

noa
04-29-2006, 09:55 PM
I think that we are hoping to sign Ty Law so he can help us for a year or two and by then we'll figure out our long-term cornerback situation. If this happens, our second-round pick makes a lot more sense.

banyon
04-29-2006, 10:04 PM
I think that we are hoping to sign Ty Law so he can help us for a year or two and by then we'll figure out our long-term cornerback situation. If this happens, our second-round pick makes a lot more sense.

is there anybody else out there besides Law if we can't sign him?

milkman
04-29-2006, 10:07 PM
is there anybody else out there besides Law if we can't sign him?

The better question is:
Is there anybody else out there who wants to join in the Law pimping?

Munson
04-29-2006, 10:07 PM
Hali = A-

Although I would have preferred Lawson, Hali is a great pick. He's an every down DE, with high character, and a non-stop motor. We have someone else besides Jared Allen who can get to the QB. This is a huge upgrade over Hicks. I expect him to be starting within the 3rd week of the season. Jared Allen + Tamba Hali = many sacks + qb pressures + forced fumbles = improved defense.

Pollard = C

I think this pick was a bit of a reach. In my opinion, he wasn't the BPA. I would rather have chosen Richard Marshall, Ashton Youboty, or Eric Winston. I hope he takes Jerome Woods' roster spot. Maybe he can motivate Greg Wesley to be more consistent.

Croyle = C +

Decent pick here. My biggest concern is that he's torn his ACL in both knees. He does have some upside as our QBOTF.


Overall = C +

Barring any major injuries, the only guy that is gonna see any significant playing time is Hali. I like the ideal of Allen and Hali coming off the edges. I say they each will get at least 10 sacks a piece. Now, maybe Ryan "Welfare" Sims can make a play or two, instead of collecting a paycheck to sit on his ass. Pollard might see some playing time on special teams, if he's the big hitter that everyone says that he is. Croyle won't see the field unless its a blowout, but he does have some upside as our QBOTF.

Ultra Peanut
04-29-2006, 10:37 PM
I mean really, with one more safety (maybe even without one) I think we have the makings of a cover 2. There isn't really a lot of pressure on DB's that way. We can put Bell/Hali/Hicks/Allen across the line in passing situations with DJ/Mitchell/Fox flying over the field and the secondary dropping back and making plays.Even beyond that excellent point, a strong pass rush takes so much pressure off the secondary. That's why DE was the right way to go in round one, and I'm positively thrilled that we ended up with Hali.

Pollard seems to have potential, so I'm definitely warming up to him, too.

This could be a great draft.

Logical
04-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Far better than most 1st days with Carl I would give it a solid B. Pollard not being good in coverage drops it from an A-

noa
04-29-2006, 10:45 PM
All we have to do is remember the game Tiki Barber had against us last season, and it makes sense for the Chiefs to draft a safety who is at his best against the run.