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Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 01:15 AM
Broncos do Plummer no favors
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist


This cowtown ain't big enough for three quarterbacks.

Already running from the long shadow of John Elway's legend, Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer now has young savior Jay Cutler breathing down his neck.

Somebody is going to get hurt here.

Let the sacking of the incumbent Denver quarterback begin. This could get real ugly.

Real fast.

Faced with intense pressure, what Plummer does best is implode.

I love that Broncos coach Mike Shanahan finally discovered a worthy heir to Elway in the NFL draft.

But, in the process, I fear Denver has thrown away any chance to win the Super Bowl this season.

The possibilities for Cutler range from earning a bust in the Pro Football Hall of Fame to being declared a bust never able to cut it on Sunday, but one thing is guaranteed.

Shanahan has bought himself a quarterback controversy capable of splitting a locker room and dividing the city.

When their crafty wheeling and dealing was done, what the Broncos acquired with the 11th pick of the first round was everything Plummer is not. Despite getting knocked down repeatedly at Vanderbilt, a football school of hard knocks and tougher losses, Cutler seems to be uncommonly genial and self-assured.

Asked to compare himself with Vince Young and Matt Leinart, the sexier picks at quarterback in the 2006 draft, Cutler did not bat an eye or back down.

"I can play with them any day of the week," Cutler said Sunday. "Going to Vanderbilt obviously was a disadvantage as far as the media and the exposure you are going to get.

"But I think the NFL - coaches and general managers and some of those people - knew I could play. It was just a matter of time for everyone else to catch up to speed."

Broncomaniacs will be squirming and screaming to find out if greatness becomes Cutler.

Throughout his NFL career, how many times has a mop and bucket been needed to clean up the mess made by Plummer when the pressure was on?

He wilts under the Arizona sun, or flips hecklers the bird, or bristles at teasing about his deadbeat beard, or bumbles and stumbles in the AFC championship game.

You might still believe in Jake. But Shanahan has seen enough.

"If you back away from competition," Shanahan said Saturday, "you shouldn't be the guy anyway."

Privately, the Broncos suggest Cutler will push Plummer to mind his P's and Q's, make fewer dumb choices and maybe even establish a steady relationship with a barber.

But divorces played out in public are seldom amicable.

Unless Cutler is a total flop, how can this relationship possibly end happily for Plummer?

No occupation in Colorado begs the paranoia that accompanies constant second-guessing more than being quarterback of the Broncos.

The projected target date for Cutler to take over as the starter is September 2007. I'm not sure Plummer will last that long, with the entire state not only looking over his shoulder, but on his back for every mistake.

By drafting Cutler, Shanahan made a bold, well-considered and wise decision for the future of the franchise.

In the short term, however, Shanahan has placed Plummer in the no-win situation.

In defeat, Plummer will be doomed to be the scapegoat for Broncos failures. In victory, Plummer will be the man who stands in the way of Cutler's development.

Shanahan has never done a better job of coaching than the 14 victories he coaxed from the Broncos last season. He will never have a tougher assignment than keeping Denver's faith in its quarterback this season.

Reading the play is not Plummer's strength.

That big, red exit sign on the wall, however, is flashing unmistakably for him.

You can put a shaggy beard on Plummer, but we see through the disguise.

Plummer is a lame duck.

Anyone who thinks he can lead the Broncos to the Super Bowl is daffy.

tk13
05-01-2006, 01:21 AM
I don't know what my expectations are for this Chiefs team, but I think as far as the AFC West goes we are now easily the team in the least amount of disarray. The Chargers going to be test driving a new QB, the Broncos are going to have QB controversy, and the Raiders are pulling people off the street to coach the team.

RedDread
05-01-2006, 01:25 AM
I don't know what my expectations are for this Chiefs team, but I think as far as the AFC West goes we are now easily the team in the least amount of disarray. The Chargers going to be test driving a new QB, the Broncos are going to have QB controversy, and the Raiders are pulling people off the street to coach the team.

With all the changes and moves in the AFC West it could actually be a down year.


In any case I don't expect there will be much best division chatter this year....

tk13
05-01-2006, 01:29 AM
With all the changes and moves in the AFC West it could actually be a down year.


In any case I don't expect there will be much best division chatter this year....
On paper, the East and North will probably get all the hype on paper. Especially if Baltimore gets McNair.

Taco John
05-01-2006, 01:31 AM
Huh? Just how are we in any more disarray than you guys? Talk about homer glasses.

Nightwish
05-01-2006, 01:36 AM
On paper, the East and North will probably get all the hype on paper. Especially if Baltimore gets McNair.
I'm a little skeptical about McNair, whoever gets him. He's just been knocked damn silly too many times. I'm not sure if his non-performance was more the fault of the team, or just the result of a few too many knocks and concussions, but I'm not sure he's got that much left in him. I fear he's gone the way of Kurt Warner.

greg63
05-01-2006, 01:36 AM
Huh? Just how are we in any more disarray than you guys? Talk about homer glasses.

Only because we had ZERO FA acquisitions, and did absolutely nothing unexpected in the draft; other then pick a QB in the third round. Everything else was totally predictable.

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 01:36 AM
Huh? Just how are we in any more disarray than you guys? Talk about homer glasses.

Jay Cutler is the most popular QB in Denver.

Nightwish
05-01-2006, 01:44 AM
Huh? Just how are we in any more disarray than you guys? Talk about homer glasses.
I hate to agree with you Taco (except in the DC forum), but I think you're right. The entire AFC West was pretty significantly upheaved during the offseason, including us. The question that remains to be answered is which teams will ride their new wave smoothly, and which will not. Given Herm Edwards' past history with the Chiefs, I think he will probably mesh pretty well with them, but we won't really know for sure until the season gets underway. It's really hard to predict what San Diego will do with a rookie QB. They've tended in that direction for the past few years, and sometimes it's worked well for them (Drew Brees), and sometimes it's been disastrous (Ryan Leaf). Likewise, this story about your quarterback controversy could become something big, or it could just be a writer trying to sell a headline and make a small problem look big. The only AFC West team I really don't have at least moderate expectations for is Oakland.

greg63
05-01-2006, 01:46 AM
I hate to agree with you Taco (except in the DC forum), but I think you're right. The entire AFC West was pretty significantly upheaved during the offseason, including us. The question that remains to be answered is which teams will ride their new wave smoothly, and which will not. Given Herm Edwards' past history with the Chiefs, I think he will probably mesh pretty well with them, but we won't really know for sure until the season gets underway. It's really hard to predict what San Diego will do with a rookie QB. They've tended in that direction for the past few years, and sometimes it's worked well for them (Drew Brees), and sometimes it's been disastrous (Ryan Leaf). Likewise, this story about your quarterback controversy could become something big, or it could just be a writer trying to sell a headline and make a small problem look big. The only AFC West team I really don't have at least moderate expectations for is Oakland.


Well, sadly, I have no more expectations of us then I do them.

Taco John
05-01-2006, 01:47 AM
Jay Cutler is the most popular QB in Denver.


Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.

greg63
05-01-2006, 01:49 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.


Yeah, I don't see Cutler dethroning Jake the fake.

Demonpenz
05-01-2006, 01:50 AM
maybe they could play jake through the regular season and then take a risk playing cutler in the playoffs since they already were going to lose with plummer

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right..

Yeah, I am.

greg63
05-01-2006, 01:51 AM
maybe they could play jake through the regular season and then take a risk playing cutler in the playoffs since they already were going to lose with plummer

That would be quite welcome I'm sure.

|Zach|
05-01-2006, 01:51 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.
I don't know...people seemed to be racing eachother on OM to throw him under the buss after they saw a nice option in back of him.

Nightwish
05-01-2006, 01:52 AM
maybe they could play jake through the regular season and then take a risk playing cutler in the playoffs since they already were going to lose with plummer
Kind of doing the opposite of what we did with Gannon and Grbac?

greg63
05-01-2006, 01:54 AM
Kind of doing the opposite of what we did with Gannon and Grbac?


Grbac who?

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 01:57 AM
Something is up at the Orange Mane.

I do a search for 'Lelie' and get results.

I do a search for 'Plummer' and get nothing.

tk13
05-01-2006, 02:03 AM
Huh? Just how are we in any more disarray than you guys? Talk about homer glasses.
I don't think we're in any sort of disarray. We didn't have a ton of roster turnover, just got a head coach who's gonna be a little smarter in calling the defensive shots. You guys are fine now... but the first time Plummer screws up bad, that'll change. I actually like Cutler though. Short-term though... you now are going to have a spotlight on the QB position, while Tatum Bell will have to prove himself over a full season at RB.

tk13
05-01-2006, 02:05 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.
That's easy to say in April. Wait till the heat gets cranked up in September.

greg63
05-01-2006, 02:06 AM
I don't think we're in any sort of disarray. We didn't have a ton of roster turnover, just got a head coach who's gonna be a little smarter in calling the defensive shots. You guys are fine now... but the first time Plummer screws up bad, that'll change. I actually like Cutler though. Short-term though... you now are going to have a spotlight on the QB position, while Tatum Bell will have to prove himself over a full season at RB.

Uhem: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=140040&page=1&pp=15

Post 7

tk13
05-01-2006, 02:10 AM
Uhem: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=140040&page=1&pp=15

Post 7
Yeah... I think we might see some surprises on defense... but it's not like we were tearing it up on that side of the ball anyway. I think Shanahan will find a way to make it click... I don't think they're gonna collapse or anything close, but it will be entertaining when Denver fans start booing Plummer. I bet their patience won't last long.

Demonpenz
05-01-2006, 02:11 AM
yeah but can cutler run the bootleg like jakey!

greg63
05-01-2006, 02:12 AM
Yeah... I think we might see some surprises on defense... but it's not like we were tearing it up on that side of the ball anyway. I think Shanahan will find a way to make it click... but it will be entertaining when Denver fans start booing Plummer. I bet their patience gets a lot shorter.
Yeah, I think their patience is probably already worn a bit thin.

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 02:14 AM
Something is up at the Orange Mane.

I do a search for 'Lelie' and get results.

I do a search for 'Plummer' and get nothing.

What is up? Taco?

greg63
05-01-2006, 02:16 AM
What is up? Taco?


Yeah, he is conspicuous by his absence.

tk13
05-01-2006, 02:20 AM
All records of Plummer's existence have been terminated. You will love Big Cutler.

greg63
05-01-2006, 02:23 AM
All records of Plummer's existence have been terminated. You will love Big Cutler.


ROFLROFL

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 05:29 AM
Sure, there's going to be fan and media created controversy. There are going to be the veteran vs the rookie issues. But, I can't imagine any of this is any worse than all the other stuff Plummer has had to deal with over the years. This should be a piece of cake for him... and honestly, Denver has been very risky with their QB depth in the past. BVP? Please...

At least now, there's an option that appears to be viable on the bench. As well, I think Jake has turned his career around in Denver, so should he leave in a year or 2... he will several options.

All that is far down the road. Jake's job this year is to build on 2005... I'm more concerned about the RB situation.

OldTownChief
05-01-2006, 05:49 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.

Common Taco jump on that "Jay" bandwagon.

Tuckdaddy
05-01-2006, 06:01 AM
If Plummer does not start off well in Sept then Shanny will bench his ass and put Cutler in.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 06:02 AM
Are we talking popularity contests or are we talking starters? If you're talking popularity contests, you're probably right. But if you're talking about who is the starter this season, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Jake Plummer is our unquestioned starter this season, and most likely next season. Jake is no less popular in Denver today than he was on Friday.Give me a break. Kisla hit the nail so square on the head it was countersunk in one blow.

Plummer already couldn't handle pressure well. Now on top of his own inconsistency, he has to deal with the weight of the guy everybody in Denver wants to replace him with.

Plummer will be the unquestioned starter until he has another Jake the Mistake outing, then the boo birds and his middle finger will come out. And Shanahan, who has never been known for loyalty and isn't afraid to make personell decisions will have to start thinking very seriously about going with the guy that everyone knows is the future of the franchise.

Plummer is a lame duck. The only thing that's kept him around this long is lackof a better option. Bronco fans are going to love to hate him now.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 06:25 AM
Give me a break. Kisla hit the nail so square on the head it was countersunk in one blow.

Plummer already couldn't handle pressure well. Now on top of his own inconsistency, he has to deal with the weight of the guy everybody in Denver wants to replace him with.

Plummer will be the unquestioned starter until he has another Jake the Mistake outing, then the boo birds and his middle finger will come out. And Shanahan, who has never been known for loyalty and isn't afraid to make personell decisions will have to start thinking very seriously about going with the guy that everyone knows is the future of the franchise.

Plummer is a lame duck. The only thing that's kept him around this long is lackof a better option. Bronco fans are going to love to hate him now.

And, as a fan I've learned to roll with the punches as nothing is within my control other than whether or not I turn on the TV. Considering I'll still be doing that... I'm good with whatever happens. It's the NFL and this happens. So, I'm prepared for the QB talk and all that goes with it.

Ari Chi3fs
05-01-2006, 06:41 AM
Faced with intense pressure, what Plummer does best is implode.


I loved this line. I laughed. I cried.

FAX
05-01-2006, 07:10 AM
A quarterback controversy is exactly what the city of Denver needs. It's what Plummer needs. It's what Cutler needs.

This is a good thing for the community and the team. I'm for it.

FAX

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:14 AM
I figured KC fans would hate to hear that Plummer's successor was drafted.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 07:16 AM
I figured KC fans would hate to hear that Plummer's successor was drafted.In the long run, it may be bad for us. But in the short run, this could be fun.

It is a sad day when you come to realize that Jake Plummer's days are numbered. He was always such an easy target.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 07:20 AM
ROFL

Taco is so pathetic he's funny.

FAX
05-01-2006, 07:20 AM
I figured KC fans would hate to hear that Plummer's successor was drafted.

Not at all, Mr. Mile High Mania. Cutler needs to get in there and show what he can do. The city and the fans deserve that.

FAX

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:21 AM
In the long run, it may be bad for us. But in the short run, this could be fun.

It is a sad day when you come to realize that Jake Plummer's days are numbered. He was always such an easy target.

This is true, but while he hasn't been perfect in Denver... he has been much better than expected. 34 wins in 3 years (1 playoff win - 3 trips - 1 Division title) is nothing to sneeze at. I just hope that Walker and the offense drafted over the weekend are positive steps towards the future.

We'll see how it goes.

dirk digler
05-01-2006, 07:22 AM
I think Shanahan is hoping Plummer will perform like Brees did when his ass was on the line.

I just go back to this weekend when Trent said he would have felt disrespected if the Chiefs took a QB in the first round. This either motivates Plummer or pisses him off to the point where he may try to screw Shanahan.

FAX
05-01-2006, 07:25 AM
I think Shanahan is hoping Plummer will perform like Brees did when his ass was on the line.

I just go back to this weekend when Trent said he would have felt disrespected if the Chiefs took a QB in the first round. This either motivates Plummer or pisses him off to the point where he may try to screw Shanahan.

You're right, of course, Mr. dirk digler. But, now it's up to Plummer. He has to prove he's still capable of leading this team.

Let's face it. Cutler is the QB that the rat wants. He wouldn't have drafted him otherwise. That is a fact. If Plummer wants to continue to play for the mountain goats, he has to earn his spot just like everone else.

FAX

jspchief
05-01-2006, 07:29 AM
This is true, but while he hasn't been perfect in Denver... he has been much better than expected. 34 wins in 3 years (1 playoff win - 3 trips - 1 Division title) is nothing to sneeze at. I just hope that Walker and the offense drafted over the weekend are positive steps towards the future.

We'll see how it goes.Plummer doesn't have 34 wins. The Broncos do. And they did it largely on the shoulders of the running game and defense. Plummer may get credit here or there, but a lot of the games were being won in spite of him. And a few of those Jake the Mistake performances came at key times.

Brock
05-01-2006, 07:31 AM
We'll be seeing a lot of Jake's finger this year.

stevieray
05-01-2006, 07:35 AM
Only Invescos fan would think that the football gods would let a QB who flips off his own fans go to the SB.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:36 AM
Plummer doesn't have 34 wins. The Broncos do. And they did it largely on the shoulders of the running game and defense. Plummer may get credit here or there, but a lot of the games were being won in spite of him. And a few of those Jake the Mistake performances came at key times.

Ah, ok. So, by that same note it's safe to say that Trent doesn't have X # of wins over any period of time b/c of Holmes and LJ?

If Plummer doesn't have any wins, then he gets none of the blame for any of the losses. So, which would you like?

Bottom line is that Denver has won a lot more than they've lost with Plummer under center. In Plummer's first year, he missed what ... 4 games in a row... and Denver lost them all I believe.

Prior to Plummer, Denver didn't see 34 wins or 3 straight trips to the playoffs with Griese. I'm not saying it's all b/c of Plummer, it would be insane to say that about any QB... I'm just saying, he's been more of a contributor to their success than just a caretaker QB. Yes, he's had his share of mistakes as well.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:37 AM
Only Invescos fan would think that the football gods would let a QB who flips off his own fans go to the SB.

That's kinda crazy... I have no issues with him flying the bird to fans yelling at him.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 07:45 AM
Why would you need to replace 'the playmaker'?

FAX
05-01-2006, 07:47 AM
Plummer's problem now is that he just can't afford to make any more mistakes. Whether it's sharing his digital dexterity with the fans, or taking unnecessary sacks, or throwing up interceptions, or fumbling or anything.

Plummer has no margin of error from this point forward. He has to get this right or Cutler will take his job.

FAX

stevieray
05-01-2006, 07:53 AM
That's kinda crazy... I have no issues with him flying the bird to fans yelling at him.

That's because you aren't a football god.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:54 AM
Plummer's problem now is that he just can't afford to make any more mistakes. Whether it's sharing his digital dexterity with the fans, or taking unnecessary sacks, or throwing up interceptions, or fumbling or anything.

Plummer has no margin of error from this point forward. He has to get this right or Cutler will take his job.

FAX

Pretty much and I'm cool with it... I don't know if Cutler can make it on this level, but he has a better pedigree than any previous backup, so it's good with me.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 07:55 AM
That's because you aren't a football god.

I'm close though... right?

stevieray
05-01-2006, 07:56 AM
I'm close though... right?

sure brad... :)

jspchief
05-01-2006, 08:09 AM
Ah, ok. So, by that same note it's safe to say that Trent doesn't have X # of wins over any period of time b/c of Holmes and LJ?

If Plummer doesn't have any wins, then he gets none of the blame for any of the losses. So, which would you like?

A lot of Trent's success is due to our o-line and running game.

But his boneheaded play hasn't lost us many game since his first year here. Plummer's poor play does still hand you guys losses. Fumbling 4 times in the AFC championship game is the most recent.

And I never said Plummer doesn't get any wins. But I also recognize that the majority of your wins were not because of Plummer.

Whatever. If you want to sit here and pretend all is well with Plummer, go ahead. Obviously a few guys in the Broncos organization disagree, because they just traded a bunch of picks to get Plummer's replacement.

FAX
05-01-2006, 08:12 AM
Mr. jspchief is right, Mr. Mile High Mania.

Come to think of it. Maybe the best strategy is for bugger eater to go ahead and name Cutler as the starting QB now and let Plummer earn his job back, if he can.

FAX

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 08:18 AM
A lot of Trent's success is due to our o-line and running game.

But his boneheaded play hasn't lost us many game since his first year here. Plummer's poor play does still hand you guys losses. Fumbling 4 times in the AFC championship game is the most recent.

And I never said Plummer doesn't get any wins. But I also recognize that the majority of your wins were not because of Plummer.

Whatever. If you want to sit here and pretend all is well with Plummer, go ahead. Obviously a few guys in the Broncos organization disagree, because they just traded a bunch of picks to get Plummer's replacement.

I never said all the wins were attributed to Plummer... you referenced "reading comprehension" to me the other day, right back at ya. :p I believe my comment was, "I'm not saying it's all b/c of Plummer, it would be insane to say that about any QB... I'm just saying, he's been more of a contributor to their success than just a caretaker QB. Yes, he's had his share of mistakes as well."

Regarding Plummer's bad AFC Title game... there's no doubting it. The ground game sucked and the defense didn't play well. I'm not excusing him at all, but it's not as if every other part of the team received an A for effort.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 08:20 AM
I never said all the wins were attributed to Plummer... you referenced "reading comprehension" to me the other day, right back at ya. :p I believe my comment was, "I'm not saying it's all b/c of Plummer, it would be insane to say that about any QB... I'm just saying, he's been more of a contributor to their success than just a caretaker QB. Yes, he's had his share of mistakes as well."

Regarding Plummer's bad AFC Title game... there's no doubting it. The ground game sucked and the defense didn't play well. I'm not excusing him at all, but it's not as if every other part of the team received an A for effort.All I'm saying is that throwing out your 34 wins as an endorsement of Plummer is a bit of a stretch.

The fact that you've done so well under Plummer and still traded away a barrell of draft picks to replace him speaks volumes.

sedated
05-01-2006, 08:25 AM
I'm not worried.

Cutler will follow in the footsteps of JP Losman, Kyle Boller and Patrick Ramsey, and all the other over-hyped 1st round QBs from small schools, with big arms and no brains.

Bust, baby...bust


(and if it helps rattle Jake the Pancake, thats just gravy)

jspchief
05-01-2006, 08:27 AM
I'm not worried.

Cutler will follow in the footsteps of JP Losman, Kyle Boller and Patrick Ramsey, and all the other over-hyped 1st round QBs from small schools, with big arms and no brains.

Bust, baby...bust


(and if it helps rattle Jake the Pancake, thats just gravy)I'm not going to go as far as bredicting Cutler as a bust, but I will say that I think winning says a lot abotu a QB, and Cutler hasn't won many games. He may have all the physical tools, but you have to have what's inside too. We don't know if Cutler has that yet.

FAX
05-01-2006, 08:28 AM
I'm not worried.

Cutler will follow in the footsteps of JP Losman, Kyle Boller and Patrick Ramsey, and all the other over-hyped 1st round QBs from small schools, with big arms and no brains.

Bust, baby...bust


(and if it helps rattle Jake the Pancake, thats just gravy)

I don't mean to disagree with you, Mr. sedated, for you are wise and informed in matters of the gridiron. But, Vanderbilt is not your normal, average, run-of-the-mill small school.

Cutler has brains. Perhaps far more than Plummer. In fact, I'll bet that Plummer took far longer to learn the mountain goat playbook than Cutler will. Another reason why the fans should be crying out for him to start immediately.

FAX

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 08:42 AM
All I'm saying is that throwing out your 34 wins as an endorsement of Plummer is a bit of a stretch.

The fact that you've done so well under Plummer and still traded away a barrell of draft picks to replace him speaks volumes.

I hear ya... and it was just 2 picks, a first and a 3rd. It should be interesting to see how this drama unfolds.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 08:43 AM
I hear ya... and it was just 2 picks, a first and a 3rd. It should be interesting to see how this drama unfolds.What picks did you use to get that first to begin with? Seems to me that getting that pick entails a whole progression of trades going back to last year.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 08:46 AM
What picks did you use to get that first to begin with? Seems to me that getting that pick entails a whole progression of trades going back to last year.

I honestly can't go back and track through the multiple traded picks. But, if you want to link each traded pick to the Cutler move I guess you could do that. I don't think it would be accurate to say they traded more than two picks for Cutler. Did they make 3-4 trades in order to move up in the draft to take him, sounds like it... but they still had a decent # of draft picks. So, it's not like saying they traded half their picks to get him...

Cutler talk is only 48 hours old and I already have tired head... guess I should get used to it.

HC_Chief
05-01-2006, 08:49 AM
hehehehe

Plumber sucks. Rat-face did a great coaching job; he tailored the offense to hide Joke's weaknesses - and it <i>worked</i>! It worked, that is, until they <i>had</i> to count on Joke to win a game... then he did what he has ALWAYS done: wilted under the pressure.

Speaking of pressure, holy crap! Still trying to fill Elway's shoes AND have the QBOTF breathing down your neck, while fanbase screams "SB or Bust"? lol Joke is in a pressure-cooker. I can't wait to see him meltdown :D

jspchief
05-01-2006, 08:50 AM
I honestly can't go back and track through the multiple traded picks. But, if you want to link each traded pick to the Cutler move I guess you could do that. I don't think it would be accurate to say they traded more than two picks for Cutler. Did they make 3-4 trades in order to move up in the draft to take him, sounds like it... but they still had a decent # of draft picks. So, it's not like saying they traded half their picks to get him...

Cutler talk is only 48 hours old and I already have tired head... guess I should get used to it.In the very least, they traded two first round picks. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Regardless, They moved up to replace Mr. 34 Wins in 3 years.

FAX
05-01-2006, 08:53 AM
In the very least, they traded two first round picks. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Regardless, They moved up to replace Mr. 34 Wins in 3 years.

Exactly, Mr. jspchief. They spent a lot to get Cutler. Why leave him on the bench? The goat multitude should be screaming to get Cutler on the field now. There's no reason to wait. He was an expensive pick and they need to derive value from him as soon as possible.

FAX

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 08:56 AM
In the very least, they traded two first round picks. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Regardless, They moved up to replace Mr. 34 Wins in 3 years.

Well, feel free to twist comments... it's not 100% accurate to say they traded the #15 and the #22 for Cutler. The trade of #22 gave them 2 picks from San Fran... the #37 and #68.

They traded #37 for Walker.

So, if you're going to include what they got for the two first rounders, you need to include Walker and not just Cutler.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 08:57 AM
I predict that Peter King predicts Plummer for MVP again this year. ROFL

I can see why the rat would want a new QB. The prospect of a guy who can read the whole field and throw from the pocket has got to be exciting after a couple years of designing an offense around a QB who can't get it done the way that the position is best played. Shanahan is a good coach, but he's had to feel like an engineer designing a car to run with flat tires the past few seasons.

Cutler is a guy that a lot of the talking heads said might be the best QB in this draft, and I don't think he stinks by any means. But, what is the success rate on 1st round QBs? 50% or less?

I expect Cutler to be successful, he's better than most of those 1st rounders and I think it was a good pick by Denver, but it is interesting to basically call the Plummer signing and re-signing a mistake and admit that he's not the guy. For a team that landed in the AFC championship last year, it seems unusual to come out and say, our QB is not good enough.

If you're scoring at home, 3 of the 4 teams in the AFC west seem to be moving twoard their next generation of QBs. Oakland, on the other hand, has its fortunes riding on Aaron Brooks ROFL

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 09:01 AM
Shanahan is a good coach, but he's had to feel like an engineer designing a car to run with flat tires the past few seasons.


Now, that is a damn funny line. I don't like reading it, but it's funny.

HerculesRockefell
05-01-2006, 09:39 AM
Why would you need to replace 'the playmaker'?

I thought he was Quarterback Jesus?

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:22 PM
I'm not going to go as far as bredicting Cutler as a bust, but I will say that I think winning says a lot abotu a QB, and Cutler hasn't won many games. He may have all the physical tools, but you have to have what's inside too. We don't know if Cutler has that yet.

There was a QB (now retired) with a college career very similar to Mr. Cutler's.

Do you remember a QB who attended an upper-echelon school whose stiff academic requirements prevented them from recruiting the type of athletes needed to field winning teams?

This QB played all four years yet never took his team to a bowl game. His last two seasons his team went 9-13.

He was also a hell of a baseball player. He went to Stanford.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 12:25 PM
There was a QB (now retired) with a college career very similar to Mr. Cutler's.

Do you remember a QB who attended an upper-echelon school whose stiff academic requirements prevented them from recruiting the type of athletes needed to field winning teams?

This QB played all four years yet never took his team to a bowl game. His last two seasons his team went 9-13.

He was also a hell of a baseball player. He went to Stanford.Sooommmewheeeere oooovveeeerrr the raaaaiiinnnnbow
way up high
There's a draft pick that I heard of
Once in a lullaby

Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream
Really do come true

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 12:25 PM
There was a QB (now retired) with a college career very similar to Mr. Cutler's.

Do you remember a QB who attended an upper-echelon school whose stiff academic requirements prevented them from recruiting the type of athletes needed to field winning teams?

This QB played all four years yet never took his team to a bowl game. His last two seasons his team went 9-13.

He was also a hell of a baseball player. He went to Stanford.

Puh-lease.

As a Broncos fan, you should be ashamed that you even brought it up.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 12:31 PM
There was a QB (now retired) with a college career very similar to Mr. Cutler's.

Do you remember a QB who attended an upper-echelon school whose stiff academic requirements prevented them from recruiting the type of athletes needed to field winning teams?

This QB played all four years yet never took his team to a bowl game. His last two seasons his team went 9-13.

He was also a hell of a baseball player. He went to Stanford.

So as long as we're making ridiculous comparisons, you guys got Elway, we got Montana. I know which one's rings I would rather have.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:33 PM
So as long as we're on this topic, you guys got Elway, we got Montana. I know which one's rings I would rather have.

Uh, you guys were sloppy seconds for an over-the-hill Montana. I'd be embarassed to mention him, he is a 49'er not a Chief.
Go get your own. :p

stevieray
05-01-2006, 12:33 PM
bubby brister..three peat

bwahahahahahahahahaha

sedated
05-01-2006, 12:34 PM
There was a QB (now retired) with a college career very similar to Mr. Cutler's.

Do you remember a QB who attended an upper-echelon school whose stiff academic requirements prevented them from recruiting the type of athletes needed to field winning teams?

This QB played all four years yet never took his team to a bowl game. His last two seasons his team went 9-13.

He was also a hell of a baseball player. He went to Stanford.


Chad Hutchinson?

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:35 PM
Sooommmewheeeere oooovveeeerrr the raaaaiiinnnnbow
way up high
There's a draft pick that I heard of
Once in a lullaby

Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream
Really do come true

Not sure where that came from; I'm not saying Cutler is or isn't the next great Denver QB (although I think he will be a stud).

You stated that you didn't feel Cutler had enough wins in college to make him a good NFL QB. I'm pointing out that the academic requirements of a school can prevent even the greatest of QBs from experiencing the same success in terms of wins as Hambuger Universities like Miami, etc.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 12:35 PM
I'm generally against comparing players at the same position from different eras... and, regarding Elway... there really is no comparison that should be made.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:37 PM
I'm generally against comparing players at the same position from different eras... and, regarding Elway... there really is no comparison that should be made.

Stop playing Uncle Tom. You're a good guy but you are too quick to play house ****** sometimes.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 12:38 PM
I can agree with the notion that Cutler wasn't surrounded with great talent... he was playing at a "smart school" in the powerhouse SEC. Cutler received some good awards and played well while taking a beating, but what he does at this level is a whole different story.

There were 3 "hyped" QBs in this draft... history tells us that maybe 1 of them will meet or exceed the expectations, I can only hope that Cutler is that one guy. There's a lot that remains to be seen.

tk13
05-01-2006, 12:39 PM
I'm not worried.

Cutler will follow in the footsteps of JP Losman, Kyle Boller and Patrick Ramsey, and all the other over-hyped 1st round QBs from small schools, with big arms and no brains.

Bust, baby...bust


(and if it helps rattle Jake the Pancake, thats just gravy)
*Cough* Roethlisberger and Leftwich*Cough*

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 12:39 PM
Stop playing Uncle Tom. You're a good guy but you are too quick to play house ****** sometimes.

You're too predictable... I almost typed that you'll throw the tom card out there, it's only the 6th or 7th time you've done so.

Pardon me for being a Broncos' fan and laughing at the Elway/Cutler comparison...

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 12:43 PM
Ah, ok. So, by that same note it's safe to say that Trent doesn't have X # of wins over any period of time b/c of Holmes and LJ?
.

That's why we drafted Brodie Croyle. :rolleyes:

sedated
05-01-2006, 12:43 PM
*Cough* Roethlisberger and Leftwich*Cough*


both those guys were considered for number 1 overall at some point in their senior seasons, then dropped to good teams.

They also lead their teams to overacheive and make bowl games.

cutler was a stretch at 11, should have been somewhere 25-30 or early second.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 12:44 PM
You stated that you didn't feel Cutler had enough wins in college to make him a good NFL QB.No I didn't.

I said that being a winner says a lot about a QB. I think it's an intangible that deserves consideration. A guy like Tom Brady comes to mind. He was always a winner. There's a lot more to being a QB than throwing passes.

I didn't say Cutler didn't have it. I just said we don't know if he does. IMO it's hard to know if a guy is a leader if he's never really led anyone.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 12:44 PM
cutler was a stretch at 11, should have been somewhere 25-30 or early second.

What draft preview had Cutler being picked outside of the top 10 or 12? Can you name one?

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 12:46 PM
I just can't wait for training camp to start... hell, the first pick that Jake throws, the world will come to a screeching halt with the Denver media and fans.

I'm just going to pull up a seat and ride it out.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:48 PM
both those guys were considered for number 1 overall at some point in their senior seasons, then dropped to good teams.

They also lead their teams to overacheive and make bowl games.

cutler was a stretch at 11, should have been somewhere 25-30 or early second.

You just showed that:

A-you know absolutely nothing about this subject
B-your homer glasses are thick
C-you been hittin' that sticky icky a little too much lately :bong:

tk13
05-01-2006, 12:48 PM
I can agree with the notion that Cutler wasn't surrounded with great talent... he was playing at a "smart school" in the powerhouse SEC. Cutler received some good awards and played well while taking a beating, but what he does at this level is a whole different story.

There were 3 "hyped" QBs in this draft... history tells us that maybe 1 of them will meet or exceed the expectations, I can only hope that Cutler is that one guy. There's a lot that remains to be seen.
I think Leinart is going to be the best QB of the three... but Cutler could prove us wrong. I think he's with a coach who will definitely play to his strengths. One of the things I remember about Cutler from when I watched him in high school was that out of everything, he wasn't afraid to get out and throw a block. I don't think he'll be rattled. He won a state title his senior year in high school and in college he went right up against teams like Tennessee and Florida and rose to the occasion.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 12:49 PM
I just can't wait for training camp to start... hell, the first pick that Jake throws, the world will come to a screeching halt with the Denver media and fans.

I'm just going to pull up a seat and ride it out.

I predict that there will be people over there calling for Cutler to be the opening day starter. Probably won't take too long into training camp for that to happen, either.

sedated
05-01-2006, 12:50 PM
What draft preview had Cutler being picked outside of the top 10 or 12? Can you name one?


I don't pay attention to draft previews.

If I did, I'd probably be pissed off that we got a 2nd round pick in the 1st, and a 4th round pick in the 2nd.

Cochise
05-01-2006, 12:51 PM
I don't pay attention to draft previews.

If I did, I'd probably be pissed off that we got a 2nd round pick in the 1st, and a 4th round pick in the 2nd.

No... you'd probably just be somewhat informed.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 12:51 PM
No I didn't.

I said that being a winner says a lot about a QB. I think it's an intangible that deserves consideration. A guy like Tom Brady comes to mind. He was always a winner. There's a lot more to being a QB than throwing passes.

I didn't say Cutler didn't have it. I just said we don't know if he does. IMO it's hard to know if a guy is a leader if he's never really led anyone.

...I think winning says a lot abotu a QB, and Cutler hasn't won many games. He may have all the physical tools, but you have to have what's inside too. We don't know if Cutler has that yet.

That's what I was responding to; nothing more.

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 12:55 PM
I predict that there will be people over there calling for Cutler to be the opening day starter. Probably won't take too long into training camp for that to happen, either.

Hell, that's not going out on a limb at all... If I remember correctly, there were a number of comments last year on the Mane about putting VanPelt in there instead of Plummer to start the season.

The situation is going to do nothing but get ugly, all Plummer and the rest of us can do is roll with it. Will Plummer do as Brees did when SD drafted Rivers and pull a 180 on his performance? I dunno...

Time will tell and in the end, I'm sure Denver will come out all right.

Wile_E_Coyote
05-01-2006, 12:57 PM
if only TO had gone to Denver instead of Walker, Jake may not be pushed out so quick

Cochise
05-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Time will tell and in the end, I'm sure Denver will come out all right.

The worst case scenario, Plummer sucking and a QB controversy developing that becomes a major distraction, isn't that bad.

If that happened, they'd just jettison Plummer at the end of the year and Cutler would be the guy. I don't know Plummer's contract situation, but unless they feel really bad about Cutler's progress I figure Plummer will be back in a place he belongs (like Detroit) by the time next year.

sedated
05-01-2006, 01:02 PM
You just showed that:

A-you know absolutely nothing about this subject
B-your homer glasses are thick
C-you been hittin' that sticky icky a little too much lately :bong:


A - we all all entitled to our opinions
B - we'll see when you're trading him for a low-round pick in 3 years
C - I just burned a hole in my f*cking shirt. goddammit

Mile High Mania
05-01-2006, 01:02 PM
The worst case scenario, Plummer sucking and a QB controversy developing that becomes a major distraction, isn't that bad.

If that happened, they'd just jettison Plummer at the end of the year and Cutler would be the guy. I don't know Plummer's contract situation, but unless they feel really bad about Cutler's progress I figure Plummer will be back in a place he belongs (like Detroit) by the time next year.

I don't know the specifics, but from what I read over the weekend there is no "guaranteed money" for Plummer in his contract after 2006 and it appears to be set up in a manner that won't be too big of a hit, should they decide to trade or release him prior to 2007.

All signs point to Jake having 2006 as the full starter and working on his new place to call home, with Cutler taking over in 2007. Considering how little rookies play and looking at this being a "offense focused" draft for Denver, the 2007 season is setting up well for the youth movement at QB and WR.

We'll see what happens, the weapons are still there for success in 2006.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 01:04 PM
A - we all all entitled to our opinions
B - we'll see when you're trading him for a low-round pick in 3 years
C - I just burned a hole in my f*cking shirt. goddammit

ROFL ROFL Nice work. :toast:

TEX
05-01-2006, 01:11 PM
Hell, that's not going out on a limb at all... If I remember correctly, there were a number of comments last year on the Mane about putting VanPelt in there instead of Plummer to start the season.

The situation is going to do nothing but get ugly, all Plummer and the rest of us can do is roll with it. Will Plummer do as Brees did when SD drafted Rivers and pull a 180 on his performance? I dunno...

Time will tell and in the end, I'm sure Denver will come out all right.


Yep. Taco even conceded that Plummer could not get it done.

Taco John
05-01-2006, 01:23 PM
I predict that there will be people over there calling for Cutler to be the opening day starter. Probably won't take too long into training camp for that to happen, either.



That might be true if we didnt' win the AFC West last year and host an AFC Championship game. Sure, there will be a couple of idiots calling for Cutler in his rookie season... But unless Jake goes Bubby Brister on us, then he'll be the starter for the forseeable future.

Coach
05-01-2006, 01:39 PM
All records of Plummer's existence have been terminated. You will love Big Cutler.

Damn, so much for these eh?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/Funnies/Football%20Smack/contract.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/Funnies/Football%20Smack/hellokitty.jpg

Count Zarth
05-01-2006, 01:40 PM
All records of Plummer's existence have been terminated. You will love Big Cutler.

I still want an answer on this. It's the damndest thing.

cdcox
05-01-2006, 03:53 PM
What draft preview had Cutler being picked outside of the top 10 or 12? Can you name one?

I know that in November, he was projected as a 2nd round pick. At that time, I heard a sports radio station in Tennessee (homeville) speculating that he might sneak into the first round based on being the 2nd best QB available in the draft (this was prior to the emergence of Vince Young based on one feaking game), but even they were gun shy about predicting he would go in the first round. So basically he moved from the 2nd round to the 11th pick overall during a time when he played very little football. He's pretty much the same guy that was projected as a 2nd round pick in November. That guy could turnout to be Joe Montana or Tim Couch for all we know. Drafting a QB is a total crap shoot. Less than 1 in 4 first rounders every become a franchise QB for the team they are drafted for.

I wish Cutler was in a different division, but I'm not wetting my pants just yet.

vailpass
05-01-2006, 04:21 PM
I know that in November, he was projected as a 2nd round pick. At that time, I heard a sports radio station in Tennessee (homeville) speculating that he might sneak into the first round based on being the 2nd best QB available in the draft (this was prior to the emergence of Vince Young based on one feaking game), but even they were gun shy about predicting he would go in the first round. So basically he moved from the 2nd round to the 11th pick overall during a time when he played very little football. He's pretty much the same guy that was projected as a 2nd round pick in November. That guy could turnout to be Joe Montana or Tim Couch for all we know. Drafting a QB is a total crap shoot. Less than 1 in 4 first rounders every become a franchise QB for the team they are drafted for.

I wish Cutler was in a different division, but I'm not wetting my pants just yet.

One guy on a small time radio talk show whose name you don't even know?
Hmmmm, forgive me if I go with the established draft guessers as my preferred sources of value ranking.
I'll bet your source didn't even have count Chocula hair :p

cdcox
05-01-2006, 04:57 PM
One guy on a small time radio talk show whose name you don't even know?
Hmmmm, forgive me if I go with the established draft guessers as my preferred sources of value ranking.
I'll bet your source didn't even have count Chocula hair :p

Well according to this thread, Kiper was rating Cutler a 3rd or 4th round pick in September. I'd say people calling him a 2nd rounder 2 mos later is not too difficult to believe. rochambeau

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=124350&highlight=Cutler

vailpass
05-01-2006, 05:25 PM
Well according to this thread, Kiper was rating Cutler a 3rd or 4th round pick in September. I'd say people calling him a 2nd rounder 2 mos later is not too difficult to believe. rochambeau

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=124350&highlight=Cutler

September? You are aware of the little event that transpired between September and April 29?
The entire 2005-06 College Football season?

(not to nitpick your post but there were slightly more than two months between September and Draft Day).

HerculesRockefell
05-01-2006, 05:51 PM
I know that in November, he was projected as a 2nd round pick. At that time, I heard a sports radio station in Tennessee (homeville) speculating that he might sneak into the first round based on being the 2nd best QB available in the draft (this was prior to the emergence of Vince Young based on one feaking game), but even they were gun shy about predicting he would go in the first round. So basically he moved from the 2nd round to the 11th pick overall during a time when he played very little football. He's pretty much the same guy that was projected as a 2nd round pick in November. That guy could turnout to be Joe Montana or Tim Couch for all we know. Drafting a QB is a total crap shoot. Less than 1 in 4 first rounders every become a franchise QB for the team they are drafted for.

I wish Cutler was in a different division, but I'm not wetting my pants just yet.

Palmer wasn't even considered a first day pick when he started his senior season. Looks like he's done ok up until this point.

cdcox
05-01-2006, 08:22 PM
September? You are aware of the little event that transpired between September and April 29?
The entire 2005-06 College Football season?

(not to nitpick your post but there were slightly more than two months between September and Draft Day).

Read again.

September to November - 2 mos.

I heard on the radio in November that Cutler was projecting as a 2nd round pick. November is near the end of the college football season, especially when you play for Vanderbilt.

Cutler went from a second round pick in November to number the 11 overall pick in the draft. There were only a couple of games in between.