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View Full Version : 2 Strong Safeties picked - What does this mean for Sammy Knight And Bartee?


Lzen
05-01-2006, 09:45 AM
Thoughts?

Bowser
05-01-2006, 09:48 AM
Bartee, as well as Woods, should be gone.

Knight will mentor for a year, then be gone.

Woodrow Call
05-01-2006, 09:50 AM
I think Bartee and Woods will be cut and Knight pushed to a backup role.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 09:51 AM
Hopefully it means that Bartee is gone and Knight will play this year but be gone next year before paying his $2M base salary.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 09:52 AM
Bartee and Woods gone, but I don't think Knight will be replaced yet.

Maybe mid-season or likely next year.

Chiefnj
05-01-2006, 09:57 AM
I don't think it means anything for Knight this year. He was supposedly the smartest DB on the team and the team leader. Imagine Wesley and a rookie back in the secondary directing plays. Not a pretty thought at this point in time; especially without any real improvement to the interior of the DL.

vckcchiefs04
05-01-2006, 10:01 AM
Bartee and Woods gone, but I don't think Knight will be replaced yet.

Maybe mid-season or likely next year.
Exactly! This is the most likely way it will go. Hopefully this draft pick will fill the need!

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 10:14 AM
Knight will stay and start through this next season.

Its after next season that something will have to be done. His base salary goes from $835k to $2M.

dr00d
05-01-2006, 10:35 AM
I'm just hoping that both safeties actually see the field....you guys give the rookies too much credit.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 10:36 AM
it means that wesley is our free safety for the foreseeable future.

Dave Lane
05-01-2006, 10:41 AM
it means that wesley is our free safety for the foreseeable future.
Well that has to give Parker a warm and fuzzy feeling. 2 safeties and Wesley still in the backfield ROFL

Dave

RedThat
05-01-2006, 10:46 AM
it means that wesley is our free safety for the foreseeable future.

Do you think the Chiefs will move Julian Battle there, and make him compete for a roster spot? Or possibly add depth?

RedThat
05-01-2006, 10:48 AM
I can see Woods gone. Bartee too. I predict they'll be June 1st cuts.

Pollard may play this year. Didn't Edwards say we drafted the first 2 guys so they can play, and start for us this year?

StcChief
05-01-2006, 10:50 AM
competition for jobs now replacements later if they pan out.

ChiefsCountry
05-01-2006, 11:03 AM
Battle should be moved to free safety. He was freaking All-SEC at it, yet we decided to move him to corner.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 11:06 AM
Do you think the Chiefs will move Julian Battle there, and make him compete for a roster spot? Or possibly add depth?
not unless they sign another viable cornerback


i don't see how they can rob a position that is currently one of the weakest on the roster.


moving Bartee from strong safety to free safety(where he belongs) is a possibility. But i don't know if bartee has any football left in him at this point.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 11:08 AM
Pollard may play this year. Didn't Edwards say we drafted the first 2 guys so they can play, and start for us this year?
but pollard is a pure strong safety


we haven't had a real free safety since jerome woods was healthy/young.


apparently the chiefs think wesley is a viable Free safety. :shrug:

RedThat
05-01-2006, 11:12 AM
not unless they sign another viable cornerback


i don't see how they can rob a position that is currently one of the weakest on the roster.


moving Bartee from strong safety to free safety(where he belongs) is a possibility. But i don't know if bartee has any football left in him at this point.

This is why a move like Ty Law would make a LOT of sense for this team.

RedThat
05-01-2006, 11:13 AM
but pollard is a pure strong safety


we haven't had a real free safety since jerome woods was healthy/young.


apparently the chiefs think wesley is a viable Free safety. :shrug:

Remember things can always change between now and September. Herm Edwards said that.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 11:15 AM
This is why a move like Ty Law would make a LOT of sense for this team.
it's true ... signing a veteran cornerback would explain/validate alot of what they have done this offseason

cutting corners ... not drafting one ... saving so much cap room


maybe ... we'll see

Lzen
05-01-2006, 11:16 AM
A lot of you guys are saying Woods and Bartee will be cut. If that's the case, will that affect our salary cap negatively with the signing bonuses they both received with their contracts they signed a couple years ago?

Lzen
05-01-2006, 11:18 AM
The reason for this thread was that it seems we now have at least 4 strong safeties on the roster - Knight, Bartee, Pollard, and the late round draft pick (can't remember his name). WTH? The Chiefs usually only keep 2 strong safeties and 2 free safeties. If they cut Woods, then we'll only have 1 free safety. Heh, and he's not even a natural free safety.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 11:19 AM
A lot of you guys are saying Woods and Bartee will be cut. If that's the case, will that affect our salary cap negatively with the signing bonuses they both received with their contracts they signed a couple years ago?Bartee won't hurt much. I think Woods was around 1 mil.

But we have a lot of cap space, so maybe we planned for that.

RedThat
05-01-2006, 11:19 AM
it's true ... signing a veteran cornerback would explain/validate alot of what they have done this offseason

cutting corners ... not drafting one ... saving so much cap room


maybe ... we'll see

I think of it this way. Adding a veteran CB, gives you good play right now, and leadership for the younger guys. I don't expect Maxey to come in right away, and neither Walls. Both are raw, and still need work to become effective CB's in this league.

This is why having a good starting veteran CB makes sense. You get good play now, and you slowly develop the guys behind him. Im sure Maxey and Walls will be involved in nickle and dime packages. But in the process they'll take their time and learn, and slowly bring them in when they're ready.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 11:21 AM
A lot of you guys are saying Woods and Bartee will be cut. If that's the case, will that affect our salary cap negatively with the signing bonuses they both received with their contracts they signed a couple years ago?

bartee wouldn't effect the cap ... iirc he's just running on 1 year deals.


but cutting woods,wesley or knight would have a significant negative impact on our salary cap position.

all 3 have sign contracts in the last 3 years with a significant signing bonus

Lzen
05-01-2006, 11:28 AM
I think of it this way. Adding a veteran CB, gives you good play right now, and leadership for the younger guys. I don't expect Maxey to come in right away, and neither Walls. Both are raw, and still need work to become effective CB's in this league.

This is why having a good starting veteran CB makes sense. You get good play now, and you slowly develop the guys behind him. Im sure Maxey and Walls will be involved in nickle and dime packages. But in the process they'll take their time and learn, and slowly bring them in when they're ready.

Walls? You mean Lenny Walls? He was a starter for the Broncos for a couple years. He may still be young, but he does have some experience.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 11:39 AM
Well that has to give Parker a warm and fuzzy feeling. 2 safeties and Wesley still in the backfield ROFL

Dave

I would have preferred a FS. However, given Knight's now-known contract situation and the fact that we need a playmaker SOMEWHERE back there, I like the Pollard pick. We still have ways of moving Wesley to the bench...

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 11:42 AM
I think of it this way. Adding a veteran CB, gives you good play right now, and leadership for the younger guys. I don't expect Maxey to come in right away, and neither Walls. Both are raw, and still need work to become effective CB's in this league.

This is why having a good starting veteran CB makes sense. You get good play now, and you slowly develop the guys behind him. Im sure Maxey and Walls will be involved in nickle and dime packages. But in the process they'll take their time and learn, and slowly bring them in when they're ready.

Barring an unforeseen miracle that allows us to sign Law, Walls will be the starter next season. Bank on it.

Lzen
05-01-2006, 11:43 AM
Barring an unforeseen miracle that allows us to sign Law, Walls will be the starter next season. Bank on it.

What about Julian Battle? Supposedly, he was looking fantastic in TC last year.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 11:47 AM
What about Julian Battle? Supposedly, he was looking fantastic in TC last year.

He's not gonna be 100% by the time preseason rolls around.

RedThat
05-01-2006, 11:51 AM
Walls? You mean Lenny Walls? He was a starter for the Broncos for a couple years. He may still be young, but he does have some experience.

Yes. He does have some experience. But I do feel he is still a little raw. He has only started 1 year, and been injured the last year. So, with that being said, if worst comes to worst, I don't mind him, but we could improve...it doesn't hurt.

RedThat
05-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Barring an unforeseen miracle that allows us to sign Law, Walls will be the starter next season. Bank on it.

if worst comes to worst, I can see that happening.

jspchief
05-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Our Free Safety is going to be Dwight Smith. :)

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 11:53 AM
Our Free Safety is going to be Dwight Smith. :)

:D

I believe The Bad Guy mentioned that over the weekend.

Bowser
05-01-2006, 11:55 AM
:D

I believe The Bad Guy mentioned that over the weekend.

Speaking of TBG, was he the lone Chiefs fan that that ESPN showed that stood up and applauded the Hali selection at Radio City Music Hall?

Woodrow Call
05-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Our Free Safety is going to be Dwight Smith. :)

That would be sweet. Imagine just for a second a secondary of:

CB-Surtain
CB-Law(not likely I know)
FS-Smith
SS-Knight/Pollard

That would be a top-notch secondary.

Fish
05-01-2006, 01:07 PM
He's not gonna be 100% by the time preseason rolls around.

Curious.... is there any proof to that statement? I've seen it used quite a bit lately without anything backing it up... And are you saying he won't be healed enough to practice or he'll be recovered but just won't be in playing shape?

Ultra Peanut
05-01-2006, 01:11 PM
it means that wesley is our free safety for the foreseeable future.I'm thinking Maxey or someone not currently on the roster will be our starting FS in 2007.

tk13
05-01-2006, 01:12 PM
I think it's gonna take a lot to steal a spot from Sammy Knight. At least I think so. We'll see. It's obvious Herm wasn't real happy with our safety play. I don't think he'll be afraid to put every DB we drafted on the roster. Last year with the Jets he started a 4th round rookie and a 5th rounder with 1 yr. experience. And they held their own, they had a good pass defense.

Ultra Peanut
05-01-2006, 01:13 PM
Our Free Safety is going to be Dwight Smith. :)That would be delicious.

Ultra Peanut
05-01-2006, 01:13 PM
Speaking of TBG, was he the lone Chiefs fan that that ESPN showed that stood up and applauded the Hali selection at Radio City Music Hall?I don't think that was him.

CupidStunt
05-01-2006, 01:14 PM
People must forget the two completely unheralded, day two safeties Herm took in New York in back-to-back years.

Now the starting safety tandem for the Jets and a VERY solid one at that.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Curious.... is there any proof to that statement? I've seen it used quite a bit lately without anything backing it up... And are you saying he won't be healed enough to practice or he'll be recovered but just won't be in playing shape?

The nature of his injury pretty much guarantees it. It's not a knee, it's an achilles.

Even if he is healed enough to practice, he won't be ready to start because he'll have spent his time re-habbing instead of getting better at his position.

htismaqe
05-01-2006, 01:19 PM
I think it's gonna take a lot to steal a spot from Sammy Knight. At least I think so. We'll see. It's obvious Herm wasn't real happy with our safety play. I don't think he'll be afraid to put every DB we drafted on the roster. Last year with the Jets he started a 4th round rookie and a 5th rounder with 1 yr. experience. And they held their own, they had a good pass defense.

I don't necessarily think anybody is going to unseat Knight this year. But they've certainly positioned themselves going into next year, when his base salary skyrockets.

JohnnyV13
05-01-2006, 02:11 PM
Woods is clearly gone. In fact, in the draft press conference on KCChiefs.com, Peterson said that safety was a position of need b/c they didn't have experienced guys behind the two starters.

Obviously, Woods isn't on the team in Peterson's mind. He's getting cut June 1, and I'm sure the team has already told him.

chiefsfaninNC
05-01-2006, 03:29 PM
Curious.... is there any proof to that statement? I've seen it used quite a bit lately without anything backing it up... And are you saying he won't be healed enough to practice or he'll be recovered but just won't be in playing shape?


I haven't see anything in print, but the recovery time frame for an achilles injury is in the 12 month range. Then you have the mental factor of cutting full speed on it again. He won't be 100% until next year.

Thig Lyfe
05-01-2006, 03:39 PM
The real question is...

Can they play corner?

JakeT
05-01-2006, 04:01 PM
The reason for this thread was that it seems we now have at least 4 strong safeties on the roster - Knight, Bartee, Pollard, and the late round draft pick (can't remember his name). WTH? The Chiefs usually only keep 2 strong safeties and 2 free safeties. If they cut Woods, then we'll only have 1 free safety. Heh, and he's not even a natural free safety.

When you play cover 2 you don't really have a SS and FS so much as a right and left safety.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 04:44 PM
When you play cover 2 you don't really have a SS and FS so much as a right and left safety.

maybe ... but then you need 2 FREE safeties to play their zone in pass coverage.

not 2 strong safeties ... which is what we really have now


and we just drafted 2 more strong safeties to back them up. :shrug:



we don't have a safety right now that has the range and ball skills to play the zone in the center of the field AND STILL be able to break on the pass and help the cornerback out with the deep pass down the sideline.

JakeT
05-01-2006, 04:59 PM
maybe ... but then you need 2 FREE safeties to play their zone in pass coverage.

not 2 strong safeties ... which is what we really have now


and we just drafted 2 more strong safeties to back them up. :shrug:

Exactly.

we don't have a safety right now that has the range and ball skills to play the zone in the center of the field AND STILL be able to break on the pass and help the cornerback out with the deep pass down the sideline.

I'm wondering if Herm thinks if we go to cover 2 each safety only has half the field -- se we don't need one with as much range.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm wondering if Herm thinks if we go to cover 2 each safety only has half the field -- se we don't need one with as much range.
i guess he must be .... considering

andoman
05-01-2006, 06:58 PM
When you play cover 2 you don't really have a SS and FS so much as a right and left safety.

Heh, left and right safety. Gunther will love that.

KCBOSS1
05-01-2006, 07:05 PM
Bartee gone...Knight is a good player. He will have a much better year this year.

brent102fire
05-01-2006, 07:12 PM
In Herm's Press Conference, he referred to Knight as "The General"...Knight is not going anywhere...

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 07:13 PM
In Herm's Press Conference, he referred to Knight as "The General"...Knight is not going anywhere...

then where in the heck are our 2 new strong safeties gonna play?

bringbackmarty
05-01-2006, 07:21 PM
then where in the heck are our 2 new strong safeties gonna play?
san diego probably.

CHIEF4EVER
05-01-2006, 07:31 PM
and we just drafted 2 more strong safeties to back them up. :shrug:



we don't have a safety right now that has the range and ball skills to play the zone in the center of the field AND STILL be able to break on the pass and help the cornerback out with the deep pass down the sideline.

Maxey will be a FS, not a SS.

Mr. Laz
05-01-2006, 07:38 PM
Maxey will be a FS, not a SS.

maxey was drafted as a cornerback ... i'm talking about the other 2 strong safeties


1 20(20) Tamba Hali DE PENN STATE

2 22(54) Bernard Pollard SS PURDUE

Overall: Pollard took over as a starter early in his true freshman season in 2003 and wound up starting the final 12 games. He finished with 66 tackles that season, including 3.5 tackles for loss. He started all 12 games as a sophomore in 2004 and finished with 96 tackles, three TFL, one sack, five passes broken up and one interception. Pollard started all 11 games as a junior in 2005 and finished with team-high 92 tackles, including 1.5 TFL, zero sacks, three PBU and three interceptions. Pollard elected to forgo his senior season at Purdue in order to make himself available for the 2006 NFL draft. He is a good-sized strong safety prospect that supports the run aggressively and also shows adequate range in deep-half coverage. However, Pollard still has room to improve in terms of his overall technique, he lacks explosive power and he also will have limitations

3 21(85) Brodie Croyle QB ALABAMA

5 22(154) Marcus Maxey CB MIAMI (FLA.)

Overall: Maxey redshirted in 2001 and played primarily on special teams in 2002. He played a versatile role as a DS and DC in all 13 games as a sophomore in 2003, while also contributing on special teams. Maxey started four of the 12 games he played as a nickel DC during his junior season in 2004, when he finished with 21 tackles and three passes broken up. Maxey played in all 12 games as a senior in 2005, when he beat out Devin Hester for the starting DC job opposite Kelly Jennings and finished with 27 tackles, three TFL, two interceptions and three PBU. Maxey lacks ideal playing experience and possesses just adequate top-end speed. He is a 'tweener DC/DS that may wind up being a better fit at the safety position in the NFL, but only if his awareness in coverage and aggressiveness in run support improve.

6 17(186) Tre' Stallings OG MISSISSIPPI
6 21(190) Jeff Webb WR SAN DIEGO STATE


7 20(228) Jarrad Page SS UCLA

Overall: Page was selected by the Milwaukee Brewers in the fifth round of the 2002 MLB draft. He also played baseball at UCLA. As a freshman in 2002, he earned a starting job for the final 10 games and finished with 43 tackles, six broken up passes and two interceptions. He started every game as a sophomore in 2003, finishing with 55 tackles, 5.5 TFL and three interceptions. As a junior in 2004, Page finished with 79 tackles, three interceptions and seven passes broken up. As a senior in 2004, Page started all 12 games, finished second on the team with 72 tackles and also chipped in with 7.5 TFL, one sack and one interception. Page is a big, physical and powerful strong safety prospect. He is at his best pursuing the run and he is a load at the point of attack as a tackler.

CHIEF4EVER
05-01-2006, 07:42 PM
maxey was drafted as a cornerback ... i'm talking about the other 2 strong safeties


1 20(20) Tamba Hali DE PENN STATE

2 22(54) Bernard Pollard SS PURDUE

Overall: Pollard took over as a starter early in his true freshman season in 2003 and wound up starting the final 12 games. He finished with 66 tackles that season, including 3.5 tackles for loss. He started all 12 games as a sophomore in 2004 and finished with 96 tackles, three TFL, one sack, five passes broken up and one interception. Pollard started all 11 games as a junior in 2005 and finished with team-high 92 tackles, including 1.5 TFL, zero sacks, three PBU and three interceptions. Pollard elected to forgo his senior season at Purdue in order to make himself available for the 2006 NFL draft. He is a good-sized strong safety prospect that supports the run aggressively and also shows adequate range in deep-half coverage. However, Pollard still has room to improve in terms of his overall technique, he lacks explosive power and he also will have limitations

3 21(85) Brodie Croyle QB ALABAMA

5 22(154) Marcus Maxey CB MIAMI (FLA.)

Overall: Maxey redshirted in 2001 and played primarily on special teams in 2002. He played a versatile role as a DS and DC in all 13 games as a sophomore in 2003, while also contributing on special teams. Maxey started four of the 12 games he played as a nickel DC during his junior season in 2004, when he finished with 21 tackles and three passes broken up. Maxey played in all 12 games as a senior in 2005, when he beat out Devin Hester for the starting DC job opposite Kelly Jennings and finished with 27 tackles, three TFL, two interceptions and three PBU. Maxey lacks ideal playing experience and possesses just adequate top-end speed. He is a 'tweener DC/DS that may wind up being a better fit at the safety position in the NFL, but only if his awareness in coverage and aggressiveness in run support improve.

6 17(186) Tre' Stallings OG MISSISSIPPI
6 21(190) Jeff Webb WR SAN DIEGO STATE


7 20(228) Jarrad Page SS UCLA

Overall: Page was selected by the Milwaukee Brewers in the fifth round of the 2002 MLB draft. He also played baseball at UCLA. As a freshman in 2002, he earned a starting job for the final 10 games and finished with 43 tackles, six broken up passes and two interceptions. He started every game as a sophomore in 2003, finishing with 55 tackles, 5.5 TFL and three interceptions. As a junior in 2004, Page finished with 79 tackles, three interceptions and seven passes broken up. As a senior in 2004, Page started all 12 games, finished second on the team with 72 tackles and also chipped in with 7.5 TFL, one sack and one interception. Page is a big, physical and powerful strong safety prospect. He is at his best pursuing the run and he is a load at the point of attack as a tackler.

I see what you are saying. I thought you were referring to Pollard and Maxey. Maxey will actually make a good FS with a small bit of work. Our 7th is a future project at best. Probably a PS candidate or perhaps ST.

MahiMike
05-01-2006, 07:57 PM
Woods will be hittin the pine...)

CHIEF4EVER
05-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Woods will be hittin the road...)

Fixed your post.....:)

JakeT
05-02-2006, 08:59 AM
then where in the heck are our 2 new strong safeties gonna play?

Anyone think Herm is considering tweaking the tampa2 D and using a big safety in the middle of the back 1/3s instead of a really fast linebacker. Then your other 2 safeties don't have to have as much range.

Thoughts?

Lzen
05-02-2006, 09:58 AM
maybe ... but then you need 2 FREE safeties to play their zone in pass coverage.

not 2 strong safeties ... which is what we really have now


and we just drafted 2 more strong safeties to back them up. :shrug:



we don't have a safety right now that has the range and ball skills to play the zone in the center of the field AND STILL be able to break on the pass and help the cornerback out with the deep pass down the sideline.

That's what I was thinking. I just didn't know how to communicate it. Nice job.

Lzen
05-02-2006, 10:00 AM
Anyone think Herm is considering tweaking the tampa2 D and using a big safety in the middle of the back 1/3s instead of a really fast linebacker. Then your other 2 safeties don't have to have as much range.

Thoughts?

Cover 3?

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 10:51 AM
then where in the heck are our 2 new strong safeties gonna play?

One new SS...the 7th-rounder is camp fodder.

chief husker
05-02-2006, 10:59 AM
I think everyone wants a safety like Polywhoknew from Pittsburg. Safeties were taken frequently and early in the draft.

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 11:00 AM
I think everyone wants a safety like Polywhoknew from Pittsburg. Safeties were taken frequently and early in the draft.

That's because safeties like that can single-handedly win games for you...

Woodrow Call
05-02-2006, 11:01 AM
Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that in a Cover 2 you have a left and right safety instead of a FS and a SS. My question is would a Pollard/Knight safety combo be a liabilty or could that be what the Chiefs have in mind?

Mr. Laz
05-02-2006, 11:08 AM
Anyone think Herm is considering tweaking the tampa2 D and using a big safety in the middle of the back 1/3s instead of a really fast linebacker. Then your other 2 safeties don't have to have as much range.

Thoughts?

just don't know at this point ... all we can really hope is that the secondary is kinda herm's specialty. So you gotta think he has some kind of plan.

maybe he just wanted more than one option and we willing to use an extra draft pick to make sure he found his guys at safety.

Bowser
05-02-2006, 11:10 AM
just don't know at this point ... all we can really hope is that the secondary is kinda herm's specialty. So you gotta think he has some kind of plan.

maybe he just wanted more than one option and we willing to use an extra draft pick to make sure he found his guys at safety.

I think it means our existing secondary is going to get an enima. Throw out the non-producing rabble, and bring in some young guys that are hungry to contribute and leave their mark on an NFL team.

Mr. Laz
05-02-2006, 11:10 AM
Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that in a Cover 2 you have a left and right safety instead of a FS and a SS. My question is would a Pollard/Knight safety combo be a liabilty or could that be what the Chiefs have in mind?

i thought safeties and the defensive line were key in the cover 2

the front 4 needs to generate their own pressure and the safeties need to be able to cover alot of ground.


doesn't seem like we are doing either... :shrug:

Chiefnj
05-02-2006, 11:19 AM
i thought safeties and the defensive line were key in the cover 2

the front 4 needs to generate their own pressure and the safeties need to be able to cover alot of ground.


doesn't seem like we are doing either... :shrug:

Arguably the front 4 was addressed with Hali and Edwards. Also, Herm might believe that Krumrie can turn Siavii and Sims into decent players. That's a lot to ask for. At one time coach Karm was a respected DL coach and he couldn't do much with those two, but we'll see.

The two things that have me puzzled are - (1) a ball hawking FS would seem to be a major need and (2) why retain Kendrall Bell in a cover 2? Cover two's typically have smaller, faster LB's who are good in coverage - everything Bell isn't.

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 11:24 AM
I think Gunther's being given an awful lot of say.

Mr. Laz
05-02-2006, 11:25 AM
The two things that have me puzzled are - (1) a ball hawking FS would seem to be a major need and (2) why retain Kendrall Bell in a cover 2?

2 very valid questions imo


maybe Bell took such a pay cut that he is actually only gonna be used as a special pass rusher... ie gary stills.

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 11:26 AM
2 very valid questions imo


maybe Bell took such a pay cut that he is actually only gonna be used as a special pass rusher... ie gary stills.

That's gotta be it. They make him take an extreme paycut and then put him in a 3-point on third down and long.

Bowser
05-02-2006, 11:26 AM
I think Gunther's being given an awful lot of say.

In what area regarding players, specifically?

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 11:27 AM
In what area regarding players, specifically?

Retaining Kendrell Bell, to me, had to be a Gunther thing. There's no place for him really in the Cover 2, unless he's going to be used just like Mathis in Indy...

Chiefnj
05-02-2006, 11:32 AM
2 very valid questions imo


maybe Bell took such a pay cut that he is actually only gonna be used as a special pass rusher... ie gary stills.

The team seems a little crowded at pass rusher. You want Allen out there. You have a first round draft pick and Hall.

To be honest, I shudder at the thought of moving Hali inside on passing situations which is what the coaching staff mentioned over the weekend. Why get a decent pass rushing DE and move him inside? Keep him on the outside where he is developing and let him do his thing.

JakeT
05-02-2006, 11:32 AM
i thought safeties and the defensive line were key in the cover 2

the front 4 needs to generate their own pressure and the safeties need to be able to cover alot of ground.


doesn't seem like we are doing either... :shrug:

Yep -- keep in mind in a cover 2 your are vulnerable to big running backs slipping past the linebacker in coverage so safties that can cover ground and be SURE tacklers are key.

It will be interesting to see how we use these guys but it seems to me we are going to go with some type of cover2 or tampa2/cover3.

Bowser
05-02-2006, 11:33 AM
Retaining Kendrell Bell, to me, had to be a Gunther thing. There's no place for him really in the Cover 2, unless he's going to be used just like Mathis in Indy...

Yeah, I'll agree with that. What did they restructure his contract down to? It had to be the minimum, or close to it.

Just speculating - could keeping Bell be the end of Eric Hicks? Tamba will take over the LDE spot, and on obvious pass downs, Tamba move inside and Bell takes over at RDE? Our linebackers could be Johnson, Mitchell, and who if not Bell? Griffin? Scanlon?

htismaqe
05-02-2006, 11:58 AM
The team seems a little crowded at pass rusher. You want Allen out there. You have a first round draft pick and Hall.

To be honest, I shudder at the thought of moving Hali inside on passing situations which is what the coaching staff mentioned over the weekend. Why get a decent pass rushing DE and move him inside? Keep him on the outside where he is developing and let him do his thing.

The PSU play-by-play guy said this morning that moving Hali inside on 3rd down wouldn't be a good idea...

Chiefnj
05-02-2006, 12:58 PM
The PSU play-by-play guy said this morning that moving Hali inside on 3rd down wouldn't be a good idea...

Why use a first round pick on a DE that is good at rushing the passer and move him away from his strength? It doesn't make much sense, but then again, there are lots of things the D has done recently that don't make much sense on the surface.

Mr. Laz
05-02-2006, 02:12 PM
Yeah, I'll agree with that. What did they restructure his contract down to? It had to be the minimum, or close to it.

Just speculating - could keeping Bell be the end of Eric Hicks? Tamba will take over the LDE spot, and on obvious pass downs, Tamba move inside and Bell takes over at RDE? Our linebackers could be Johnson, Mitchell, and who if not Bell? Griffin? Scanlon?

Hali is smallish for a DE ... moving him inside doesn't sound good at all imo.


should be interesting to see what happens.



Maybe Bell has to make the team .... like the safety position, maybe we are looking at some serious process of elimination.

keg in kc
05-02-2006, 02:50 PM
I haven't gotten the impression that we're going to move to the cover 2. Yes that's what Edwards has traditionally done, but in every press conference I've heard where he's been asked the question, he's basically said the defense is Gun's.

And I think they're wanting Hali to play at about 275. Not too small.

I don't like the idea of moving him inside, either. I've never liked this infatuation we have with putting bookmark speedrushers (Allen and Hall now, I guess) in on 3rd down; it makes us way too vulnerable to too many things. Done occasionally it would be a nice change of pace, but it's as bad as the spinner if we use it 95% of the time, at least as far as I'm concerned.