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View Full Version : Trent Lott is right on point...


vailpass
05-03-2006, 12:06 PM
Like him or not you have to admit Lott is saying what an awful lot of us were thinking in regards to the recent illegal alien marches:


"After a March rally, Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., said he was offended by the sight of marchers waving the Mexican flag.
"I want to be sensitive to human concerns, why they're here and how they're here. But when they act out like that, they lose me," Lott said, going on to suggest that the protesters risked deportation. "We had 'em all in a bunch, you know what I mean?"

The most feared words in Phoenix: La Migra!!!


www.denverpost.com

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 12:13 PM
Like him or not you have to admit Lott is saying what an awful lot of us were thinking in regards to the recent illegal alien marches:


"After a March rally, Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., said he was offended by the sight of marchers waving the Mexican flag.
"I want to be sensitive to human concerns, why they're here and how they're here. But when they act out like that, they lose me," Lott said, going on to suggest that the protesters risked deportation. "We had 'em all in a bunch, you know what I mean?"

The most feared words in Phoenix: La Migra!!!


www.denverpost.com

Yep I totally agree.

I am getting sick of all these POS illegals marching like they have some right.

Taco John
05-03-2006, 12:18 PM
I think he hits the nail on the head. That said, I'm no more offended at a Mexican waving a mexican flag than I am a Southerner waving the traitors flag. And yet some folks think it's perfectly ok for a confederate flag to be flown next to the United States flag... so go figure.

I think it boils down to the cultural symbolism that gets ingrained into these flags. I don't think these people are waving the Mexican flag out of national pride, but instead out of cultural pride. Same with the Confederate flag wavers...

It's offensive, but it could be worse. They could be strapping themselves with bombs and demanding that we hand California back over to them.

I think in all the politics, we lose perspective of how good our neighbors really are.

SBK
05-03-2006, 12:26 PM
What's worse, illegals marching as if it's their right, or illegals affecting US policy towards them?

BucEyedPea
05-03-2006, 12:27 PM
I think he hits the nail on the head. That said, I'm no more offended at a Mexican waving a mexican flag than I am a Southerner waving the traitors flag. And yet some folks think it's perfectly ok for a confederate flag to be flown next to the United States flag... so go figure.

'Cept the context TOTALY different.
I mean southerners are American citizens and these guys are not, but want the benefits of one without being one. They can start on this road buy ditching their dang flag.

I think in all the politics, we lose perspective of how good our neighbors really are.

There are people in that crowd that had Petitions to do away with borders between Canada, Mexico and Central America. Do you want that? The plan is to get that idea implemented by 2010.

vailpass
05-03-2006, 12:32 PM
I think he hits the nail on the head. That said, I'm no more offended at a Mexican waving a mexican flag than I am a Southerner waving the traitors flag. And yet some folks think it's perfectly ok for a confederate flag to be flown next to the United States flag... so go figure.

I think it boils down to the cultural symbolism that gets ingrained into these flags. I don't think these people are waving the Mexican flag out of national pride, but instead out of cultural pride. Same with the Confederate flag wavers...

It's offensive, but it could be worse. They could be strapping themselves with bombs and demanding that we hand California back over to them.

I think in all the politics, we lose perspective of how good our neighbors really are.

I agree, Mexicans are good neighbors.

I am an admirer of the Mexican people. My wife and I visit Mexico fairly often, not the large tourist towns usually but real Mexico. By and large they are an industrious people who make the most out of the very little they have. Vulcanizing stations are an example of their efforts to make due.

Mexican artwork, craftsmanship, food and drink, furnishings and tapestry,cultural events ( I am a Dia de los Muertos buff) are things we very much enjoy.

Mexico is Mexico, the US is the US. Both are sovereign nations that stand on their own. Where I have a problem is when Mexicans come to the US and want to change American ways to fit their own, just as I would disagree with Americans moving to Mexico thinking they can flaunt Mexican citizenship laws. It would be wrong for an American to move to Mexico and expect to have all govt. and business services in English so he could understand them rather than learn Spanish, the tongue of the country he has chosen.

Flying a Mexican flag in America says " I am Mexican, I want all of your benefits but will not pledge my loyalty in return."

Never. The 11 million illegals demanding the US bow to their will and allow them to flaunt our laws have awoken the 295 million LEGAL citizens and the will of the people will be expressed in the upcoming Immigration Reform Act.

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 12:34 PM
I think in all the politics, we lose perspective of how good our neighbors really are.

Canada is a good neighbor but Mexico has one of the most corrupt governments in the world.

I like what O'Reilly said last night. Why don't the illegals go and protest in Mexico City and try to make that country and government better instead of doing it here.

The long-term solution to illegal immigration is to reform Mexico and make it a richer country so their people don't have to come here.

Taco John
05-03-2006, 01:01 PM
'Cept the context TOTALY different.
I mean southerners are American citizens and these guys are not, but want the benefits of one without being one. They can start on this road buy ditching their dang flag.



THe context is different, sure... But the actual act is the same. I just don't see a big gap in the difference between a Hispanic person waving a Mexican flag, and a Southerner waving the sepratists flag. I find both equally offensive, but I'm ok with their right to do so.

And yes, I do believe that even illegal aliens have inalienable rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights) bestowed upon them by the creator. I hold that truth to be self evident, but sometimes you have to remind people that there is such a thing as an "inalienable right," and that the United States was built on such high-minded concepts.

RaiderH8r
05-03-2006, 01:08 PM
Bottom line. The reason they left Mexico for the US is the lifestyle in the US is better. They should stop attempting to change American lifestyle to Mexican lifestyle or, at some point, they'll have to hop the border into Canada to find a better life.

Additionally, they're ****ing criminals. So...there's that.

Taco John
05-03-2006, 01:12 PM
Actually, they're not looking for a lifestyle change so much as they're looking for an improvement in their economic picture. They're working harder over here than they could in Mexico because they can actually find jobs here.

Really it's just about jobs. We have plenty to offer them because they are willing to work cheaper than our own citizens are willing to work. If you want to turn the tide on illegal immigration, you have to crack down hard on the people giving them jobs, and make it more difficult for illegal aliens to get paid in this country.

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 01:14 PM
And yes, I do believe that even illegal aliens have inalienable rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights) bestowed upon them by the creator. I hold that truth to be self evident, but sometimes you have to remind people that there is such a thing as an "inalienable right," and that the United States was built on such high-minded concepts.

Yes human beings do have inalienable rights but they don't have the right to cross into our country or any other country illegally.

Chief Henry
05-03-2006, 04:59 PM
DOn't shoot the messenger here, but some of you guys will classified as racist pigs for your thoughts and ideas and feelings on this subject. Just trying to warn you.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 08:39 PM
I know I'm mortally offended every time I see an Irish Flag at a St. Patrick's day parade. It makes my blood boil, I tell you...

Celebrating a foreign holiday and showing foreign flags like that. It's as outrageous as a bar hosting a Cinco De Mayo party. Or the German Flags at Oktoberfest! There all just downright un-am-ur-ikan!

What's next? Celebrating Bastille Day and flying the Tricolour at the Heritage Institute? ;)

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 08:43 PM
Yes human beings do have inalienable rights but they don't have the right to cross into our country or any other country illegally.

Note to self-dirk digler believes in (divinely appointed?) inalienable rights, but only when they are not in conflict with local laws.

:shake:

Does the right to liberty only exist within certain strictly defined national borders?

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 08:44 PM
I know I'm mortally offended every time I see an Irish Flag at a St. Patrick's day parade. It makes my blood boil, I tell you...

Celebrating a foreign holiday and showing foreign flags like that. It's as outrageous as a bar hosting a Cinco De Mayo party. Or the German Flags at Oktoberfest! There all just downright un-am-ur-ikan!

What's next? Celebrating Bastille Day and flying the Tricolor at the Heritage Institute?

Honestly I don't have a problem with AMERICANS doing that. They are showing their heritage and they are proud of were they came from but when they go home they are AMERICANS.

The problem I have is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS marching and protesting and flying another countries flag on American soil like the have some ****ING RIGHT TOO. :cuss: :banghead:

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 08:48 PM
Note to self-dirk digler believes in (divinely appointed?) inalienable rights, but only when they are not in conflict with local laws.

:shake:

Does the right to liberty only exist within certain strictly defined national borders?

Were would we be without laws?

Yes.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 08:48 PM
Honestly I don't have a problem with AMERICANS doing that. They are showing their heritage and they are proud of were they came from but when they go home they are AMERICANS.

The problem I have is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS marching and protesting and flying another countries flag on American soil like the have some ****ING RIGHT TOO. :cuss: :banghead:

Type louder. Maybe if you post in all caps they will get their feelings hurt and leave. :p

So, others are only proud of their heritage by waving a foreign flag, but Illegals are undermining the society of the US? Oy.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 08:51 PM
Were would we be without laws?

Yes.

OK. Nation A acknowledges certain inalienable rights.
Nation B has laws that state it is OK to hold people as property, and kill those you hold as property at will.

Do the citizens of Nation B have an inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that surpasses national borders, or not?

To me, this is only different as a matter of degree.

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 08:54 PM
Type louder. Maybe if you post in all caps they will get their feelings hurt and leave. :p

So, others are only proud of their heritage by waving a foreign flag, but Illegals are undermining the society of the US? Oy.

Illegals have no right to march and protest and wave Mexican flags on American soil. That is what pisses me off the most.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 08:58 PM
Illegals have no right to march and protest and wave Mexican flags on American soil. That is what pisses me off the most.


Then I suggest you go down to the next protest, find 5 or 6 of the biggest and meanest looking illegals, and personally express your displeasure. You might want to make sure the people you are expressing this opinion to actually are illegals, and not legal immigrants, or others who for whatever reason support their cause.

I look forward to seeing the coverage on the 6 o' clock news.

ROFL

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 08:59 PM
OK. Nation A acknowledges certain inalienable rights.
Nation B has laws that state it is OK to hold people as property, and kill those you hold as property at will.

Do the citizens of Nation B have an inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that surpasses national borders, or not?

To me, this is only different as a matter of degree.

That is a good question Adept. I would certainly acknowledge that Nation B citizens do have inalienable rights as do any human being so I would like to amend the answer to question from above because I was wrong.

But every country/nation have laws that citizens have to abide by and without it the world would be in chaos.

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 09:02 PM
Then I suggest you go down to the next protest, find 5 or 6 of the biggest and meanest looking illegals, and personally express your displeasure. You might want to make sure the people you are expressing this opinion to actually are illegals, and not legal immigrants, or others who for whatever reason support their cause.

I look forward to seeing the coverage on the 6 o' clock news.

ROFL

So you think it is alright that people that are here illegally have a right to march and protest on American soil?

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 09:03 PM
That is a good question Adept. I would certainly acknowledge that Nation B citizens do have inalienable rights as do any human being so I would like to amend the answer to question from above because I was wrong.

But every country/nation have laws that citizens have to abide by and without it the world would be in chaos.

I agree wholeheartedly. My apologies for the dig at you I took above.

The Social Contract is the basis of society. Law is the highest expression of that Contract.

However, I will always believe that individual liberties and rights should be a greater consideration than an arbitrary law, as long as those liberties do not injure another. JMO.

Have a good night, dirk. Say hi to Rollergirl for me. ;)

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 09:04 PM
So you think it is alright that people that are here illegally have a right to march and protest on American soil?


Indeed I do. If this nation is not strong enough to endure protest, even of those here illegally, it is not the nation I've spent much of my time, effort, and money trying to improve for the next generation.

Do I personally disagree with it? Yes. However, I believe in an almost obsolete aphorism:

"I may disagree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it."
That is a truth for me that surpasses Nationalism.

dirk digler
05-03-2006, 09:09 PM
Indeed I do. If this nation is not strong enough to endure protest, even of those here illegally, it is not the nation I've spent much of my time, effort, and money trying to improve for the next generation.

Do I personally disagree with it? Yes. However, I believe in an almost obsolete aphorism:

"I may disagree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it."
That is a truth for me that surpasses Nationalism.

Adept you are a better man than me.

Boozer
05-03-2006, 09:11 PM
"I may disagree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it."
That is a truth for me that surpasses Nationalism.

Nationalism is generally a bandwagon for idiots.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 09:12 PM
Adept you are a better man than me.

Not better or worse. Just different. Thanks for the kind thought, though. Have a good night.

Adept Havelock
05-03-2006, 09:14 PM
Nationalism is generally a bandwagon for idiots.


It's also been an impetus and asset for some of mans greatest achivements, such as the formation of the United States and other Democratic nations. The achivements of the Space Program, and it's associated science is another positive development generated almost solely by nationalism. Another example would be the Great Struggle of WW2. Both sides used nationalism as a tool. Like any tool, it can be used for good or ill.

BucEyedPea
05-03-2006, 09:38 PM
Mr. Havelock,
I sorta agree with you on the alienable rights thing even for a visiting foreigner.
But if someone is here illegally, they have no right to even be on a street free at all imo. That's not an inalienable right...that is a transferrable right. There is NO right to commit a crime or breaking a law. Such things typically involve a loss of rights.

It's not like his right to life is threatened or his property is being seized without due process...but he has no right to even be in the country unless he comes in legally. So even if he is...and this does include a visiting foreigner as well....neither of them have the right to petition our gov't for favorable legislation. That's not the same thing as a St.Patrick's Day parade celebrating one's heritage.

Braincase
05-04-2006, 05:39 AM
If the illegal Mexican immigrants would put as much effort into protesting in Mexico as they do here, there wouldn't be as many illegal Mexicans here... they'd have better economic conditions in Mexico.

Boozer
05-04-2006, 07:11 AM
It's also been an impetus and asset for some of mans greatest achivements, such as the formation of the United States and other Democratic nations. The achivements of the Space Program, and it's associated science is another positive development generated almost solely by nationalism. Another example would be the Great Struggle of WW2. Both sides used nationalism as a tool. Like any tool, it can be used for good or ill.

You must be using a much wider definition of nationalism that I was referring to. But under any definition, I have a hard time believing that nationalism had anything to do with the creation of the United States. Hell, they thought they were English.*

EDIT* English first, Virginians (or whatever) second, and Americans third.

banyon
05-04-2006, 08:33 AM
If the illegal Mexican immigrants would put as much effort into protesting in Mexico as they do here, there wouldn't be as many illegal Mexicans here... they'd have better economic conditions in Mexico.

I respect where you are coming from, but the facts don't support that...

<embed src="http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da680009d18/nb/09012da68000a0cc_nb_16x9.asx" kioskmode='true'; autoplay='false'></embed>
An estimated 1.2 million people attended a rally in support of Mexico City Mayor López Obrador (Photo: Antonio Olvera}

BucEyedPea
05-04-2006, 09:15 AM
banyon,
What are they protesting there, exactly?
That's a microsoft file.

banyon
05-04-2006, 09:50 AM
banyon,
What are they protesting there, exactly?
That's a microsoft file.


MEXICO CITY A capital typically clogged with traffic was thronged by hundreds of thousands of people who marched into the main plaza to protest a government effort against MayorAndrés Manuel López Obrador that threatens to force him out of next year's presidential elections.

The police estimated that more than a million people participated in the march Sunday. Aides to the mayor estimated that there were 750,000 people. Several political observers described the march as the biggest in the country's recent history.

Preceded by two weeks of heated political discourse and confusing legal maneuvers, the march was not the first to denounce the government's campaign against the mayor. But it was a dramatic illustration of seemingly growing support for López Obrador and disappointment in President Vicente Fox.

The demonstrators were of all ages and walks of life. There were men in business suits and women in traditional Indian clothes. And while some said they had been long-time supporters of the mayor, others said that even though they were not likely to vote for him they considered the government's campaign against him unfair.

Unlike other demonstrations, there was no real disorder or rowdiness. People covered their mouths with hospital masks and marched without chanting.

"Our silence says everything," read many banners that floated above the crowds. Others depicted Fox as a traitor.

Rocío Jiménez González, a 26-year-old lawyer, wore a banner that urged Mexico to follow Ecuador's example.

"They got rid of their president," she said. "It's time for Mexico to do the same.

"'I am here to defend the democracy of my country, or what little there is of it," she said. "We cannot allow a few people in power to control the will of the majority by decree."

Fox did not comment on the demonstration. His government has been widely criticized after Congress voted April 7 to lift López Obrador's immunity so that the mayor could stand trial in a minor land dispute - a proceeding that could force López Obrador to surrender his political ambitions. Those charges have plunged Fox's party and his cabinet into open conflict.

López Obrador has reveled in the moment. He announced he would return to work as normal on Monday. And while he urged the government to back away from its case against him, he also sent his opponents a message of conciliation.

"I hope our adversaries will rectify this situation," he said, "that they will back away from their animosity and disqualifications."

"We are never going to bet on destroying our adversaries," he said. "The task of transforming the country requires tolerance, agreement, and, above all, no wasting time on political vengeance."

The demonstrators were of all ages and walks of life. There were men in business suits and women in...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/25/news/mexico.php

BucEyedPea
05-04-2006, 09:58 AM
How is that protesting their economy?

Seems they just don't like certain people more...nothing was issue specific. :hmmm:

banyon
05-04-2006, 10:09 AM
How is that protesting their economy?

Seems they just don't like certain people more...nothing was issue specific. :hmmm:

It's not as if they are supporting this candidate because he used to be the host of "Wheel of Fortune" or something.

He is a strongly-reform minded candidate, who wants to repeal many of the pro-US corporate economic policies like NAFTA and the like.

He and the 1.2 mil think that Vicente Fox has sold them a fake bill of goods on a lot of things.

Point being, re Braincase's statement, they can protest. That protest was larger than any in U.S. history.

BucEyedPea
05-04-2006, 10:13 AM
Oh well...I LIKE it! That's great news!
Thanks.

Braincase
05-04-2006, 01:46 PM
Golly, I have to admit I'm flumoxed... I had no idea that Mexico City had 1.2 million illegal immigrants.

Eye Patch
05-04-2006, 02:39 PM
You guys do realize that it is illegal for non-citizens of Mexico to protest/demonstrate in Mexico according to their constitution

Boyceofsummer
05-04-2006, 04:48 PM
I see. It’s ok to toil by day and night to make a living on low wages pooling your resources to live with a roof over you head. Doing the jobs America mostly refuses and seems to be above. Corporate and political interests have lobbied and won open border economic concessions from most of the world for more than two decades. We now demand cheap goods, cheap oil and low wages. Did we really think that there would be no consequences to our demands? At least they have the balls to rally and support each other. America has become the worlds choir. MEE MEE MEE MEE MEE MEE…………………..

BucEyedPea
05-04-2006, 05:08 PM
Doing the jobs America mostly refuses and seems to be above.

Like the American contractors working on rebuilding in the Katrina devastated areas,who were all laid off after bus loads of illegal Mexicans were shipped in. The owners said the "Mexicans are here." Then promptly laid the Americans off. Did you mean those jobs?

Boyceofsummer
05-04-2006, 05:14 PM
Like the American contractors working on rebuilding in the Katrina devastated areas,who were all laid off after bus loads of illegal Mexicans were shipped in. The owners said the "Mexicans are here." Then promptly laid the Americans off. Did you mean those jobs?


Corporate and political interests have lobbied and won open border economic concessions from most of the world for more than two decades. We now demand cheap goods, cheap oil and low wages. Did we really think that there would be no consequences to our demands?