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tk13
05-05-2006, 01:48 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14504364.htm

At the end of their ropes
Even the eternally hopeful have a breaking point
JOE POSNANSKI
Kansas City Star

You never know what will make you snap. After all these years of horrendous Royals baseball, I never expected a nice Australian kid named Justin Huber to break me. But so it goes. Consider me broken. This is me snapping. The Royals are an embarrassment. A mess. A disaster. Itís time to blow up the whole thing and start new.

Of course, Huber is just the final straw. It is 10 full years of ghastly baseball that leads to this rant. Ten years, weíve watched the Royals try out softball pitchers, get hit in the back with relay throws, fall off bases on pickoff attempts, jog toward dugouts while fly balls drop behind them, slash payroll, send out incorrect lineup cards, injure themselves in home-plate celebrations and sacrifice innocent young pitchers at Yankee Stadium.

All of that will get to you after a while.

Through it all, Iíve tried to hold out hope. Hey, itís baseball. Ya gotta hope. Look at the Cincinnati Reds this year. Look at Detroit. In baseball, there should always be hope.

Then this Royals team came along. And you know what? There is no hope. They broke me. I am finishing a book these days, and so my mornings and afternoons have been spent in a writing fog. My evenings, though, have been reserved for the Royals. I have, for the first time as an adult, been able to watch baseball entirely as a fan, and usually with my oldest daughter on my lap. Elizabeth is 4 now, and she does not care at all about baseball, but she likes eating popsicles where she can make the biggest mess. To humor me, she will occasionally look at the Royals game, notice something similar to baseball happening, and ask, ďDaddy, when will the commercials come back on?Ē

I appreciate the question. This Royals season has been awful. Every game has been torture. The commercial that shows termites attacking wood has been more inspiring.

Sure, itís true the Royals have been awful almost every minute since the strike of 1994. But this team is a different kind of awful. This is the dreariest collection I can remember for any team in my lifetime. It isnít just that the Royals canít hit or field or slug or pitch or run or walk or throw or stay healthy ó and that covers just about everything.

No, thereís something else. It is that as you look around the field, you see nothing but despair, nothing but castoffs who signed here for a chance or a few extra bucks, nothing but young players who go out and stubbornly prove every day they are not major league.

How did it get this bad? Thereís plenty of blame to go around, from an owner who wonít spend money to a management group that never figured out how to win games to talent evaluators who recommended Eli Marrero and Albie Lopez, to aging veterans just cashing paychecks, to amateur scouts who championed Colt Griffin and Roscoe Crosby, to strength and conditioning people who canít keep anybody healthy, to coaches who have not developed a single high-quality major-league starter or everyday player.

This team has been a crushing and colossal failure.

And weíve hit the low point now. The Royals arenít just bad, theyíre old. Hitters two through six average 35 years of age. Thatís pure hopelessness.

The Royals arenít just bad, theyíre funny. Last week, Esteban German ó for reasons readily apparent to no one ó was playing center field. He either forgot his sunglasses in the dugout or purposely left them there. Whatever, a fly ball smacked him in the face. Iím told German did wear his designer shades on the plane out of town that night.

The Royals arenít just bad, theyíre infuriating. John Buck ó a key element in the Carlos Beltran trade ó actually had a passed ball on a pitchout the other day. First time Iíve seen that one. And it reminds you that the Beltran trade, looking back, was the death knell for this organization. The Royals had one great player to trade, one of the best players in the game, and in exchange they got Buck, Mark Teahen and Mike Wood. A baseball executive e-mailed me that day to say the trade was a fiasco, a breathtakingly dumb move by general manager Allard Baird. I held out hope that the executive was wrong.

He wasnít wrong. To this point, Buck and Teahen ó the two key elements to the deal ó are hitting a combined .190 with three times more errors than home runs.

Once the Royals failed to cash in on Beltran, the dominoes tumbled. They hired Buddy Bell, who had one of the worst managerial records in baseball history. They lost Zack Greinke, their best pitching prospect in a decade, to a personal issue that nobody, not even Greinke himself, seems to understand. They acquired a bunch of old pitchers. Before the Beltran trade, they signed Angel Berroa to a long-term deal, a move that at the time seemed like a decent gamble and now seems to have them stuck with a shortstop who has a knack for making disastrous errors and an addiction to pitches in the dirt.

Itís so dark now, you canít even see bright spots.

That brings us back to Justin Huber. If you donít know, Huber is a pretty solid Royals prospect. He should be the teamís first baseman of the future. He led the Texas League in hitting last season, he was hitting quite well in Omaha this season. The Royals wisely intended to keep him in Class AAA most of the season, maybe all season, so he could get experience playing first base and develop his power.

This week, the Royals called up Huber. Why? They concede he will not play first base ó heís not ready, and the Royals paid quite a bit of money to Doug Mientkiewicz to play there, and if you can believe it, Mientkiewicz leads the starters with a .322 on-base percentage (league average on-base percentage: .335).

The Royals also concede he will not be the regular designated hitter, not with 38-year-old Matt Stairs on the team.

So, they brought up Justin Huber, their first baseman of the future, to (drum roll, please) sit on the bench. I assume they could not think of any other way to slow his development. Maybe next week they will start whacking his toes with baseball bats.

I realize, of course, that we are talking about the Royals. This is the team that traded Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez. This is the team that canceled the team banquet because it was too expensive. This is the team that has decided to give out T-shirts of its best players every Tuesday and has already run out of players, so next Tuesday theyíre giving out T-shirts with condiments on them. This is the team that on Thursday tried to get out of its hitting doldrums by skipping batting practice. Next, they might stop wearing batting helmets.

So in the grand scheme of Royals catastrophes, this Huber move hardly ranks up there.

But you never know what it is that will make you snap. The Royals have utterly lost their way. Thereís panic in the streets. Theyíre messing up prospects now. Theyíre skipping batting practice. Itís only a matter of time before they rush prize prospects Alex Gordon and Billy Butler, along with any other Royals hitter who gets two hits in a row. Theyíre going goofy.

And itís clear that everything has to change. Everything. The leadership. The mind-set. The core players. Everything. The worst thing David Glass can do is let this thing linger, make Allard Baird a lame duck, let this organization drift for a minute longer. Itís bad for the club, and, frankly, itís unfair to Baird, too. You canít run a team like this. If youíre going to fire him ó and you are ó do it quick and do it now.

Itís time right now to find a GM who has been around winning. Itís time to pour money into scouting and development and the draft. Itís time to focus entirely on 2007 ó this season is flat over. The only thing that matters now is getting some value for those veterans, making the right pick at No. 1 in the amateur draft, giving promising pitchers such as Jeremy Affeldt and Denny Bautista their innings and not squandering those good young hitters Baird and company were able to find.

The Royals finally won on the road Thursday, which was nice. But the Royals need to start on the long road back today.

Rausch
05-05-2006, 02:05 AM
Good GAWD I wish JoPo would give up on baseball already...

DenverChief
05-05-2006, 02:10 AM
ROFL

Deberg_1990
05-05-2006, 02:15 AM
Nice read.....Im glad JoPo finally woke the **** Up. Ive been saying the exact same things he said in this article for at least the past 5-7 years.

Spicy McHaggis
05-05-2006, 02:48 AM
If anyone else had written this article, anyone, I think I would have had a "No shit, Sherlock" attitude. With JoPo though, this game is his passion and the Royals are his team. No matter how terrible things got Posnanski would be there to say it's not that bad. He's given up the ship now.

I feel like today was the day the music died.

kcfanXIII
05-05-2006, 03:15 AM
"say bye bye to johnny damon and dye,
sent beltran down to h-town and got shit in return.
just a F*** named buck, and a mark that makes you cry.
why can't you just catch a pop fly?
why can't you just catch a pop fly?.."

(to american pie, feel free to continue.)

kc1977
05-05-2006, 05:30 AM
If anyone else had written this article, anyone, I think I would have had a "No shit, Sherlock" attitude. With JoPo though, this game is his passion and the Royals are his team. No matter how terrible things got Posnanski would be there to say it's not that bad. He's given up the ship now.

I feel like today was the day the music died.

Seriously though, aren't the Indians his team?

chiefqueen
05-05-2006, 08:01 AM
I'm thinking if the Royals don't take at least 2 out of 3 from the ChiSox, Baird better hire packers Sun. night to pack his stuff.

Monday could be interesting............

SCTrojan
05-05-2006, 08:15 AM
They won last night. I'm not giving up the ship.

bkkcoh
05-05-2006, 08:25 AM
They won last night. I'm not giving up the ship.


Randy Johnson has 1 less win than the Royals........ 5 weeks into the season, that is freakin' SAD :deevee:

Cochise
05-05-2006, 08:54 AM
I think this year I have more of a depressed feeling about the team than I have before. For some of the reasons that this column points out, that have little to do with baseball. Like how they are slinging t-shirts and promotions at seemingly every third game, and the ketchup/mustard/relish shirts.

I mean, the team is bad. Small market teams are going to be bad most of the time in baseball. I understand why they are bad, but it's one thing to be bad, quite another to make the team just look silly. The marketing department needs to be cleared out, for sure.

I don't think Baird is going to be occupying that office much longer. But if you are going to make a change in-season, why wait and see how the next week or so goes? Is one week of baseball enough to restore hope in a regime that after 5+ years hasn't put anything together? I don't understand that.

KevB
05-05-2006, 08:59 AM
Here's the problem about clearing the whole thing out today.....the draft is only about a month away. If you wipe the slate clean, who in the heck is going to make decisions on 40+ draft picks? If we clean out our player personnel and scouting department, who's going to decide who to draft in the 17th round? I can't imagine many scouts will be hired away from other organizations mid-season.

Having said that, our inability to find players through the draft is the source of this organization's downfall, so do you really want the current regime making the picks?

Bowser
05-05-2006, 08:59 AM
Pretty much dead on.

The only reason I can think of to bring Huber up is that Sweeney is done for good. Forever and ever.

I haven't been to a game this year. What has the fan reaction to this team been?

Cochise
05-05-2006, 09:08 AM
Here's the problem about clearing the whole thing out today.....the draft is only about a month away. If you wipe the slate clean, who in the heck is going to make decisions on 40+ draft picks? If we clean out our player personnel and scouting department, who's going to decide who to draft in the 17th round? I can't imagine many scouts will be hired away from other organizations mid-season.

Having said that, our inability to find players through the draft is the source of this organization's downfall, so do you really want the current regime making the picks?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. You're not going to replace those people right before the draft. To me it doesn't make sense to make a change in midseason, but especially not before the draft. That would just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

shakesthecat
05-05-2006, 09:14 AM
I want Baird gone before the draft. If there's one area he and the scouting department have proven to be clueless at, it's the draft.

He doesn't deserve the chance to screw up another one.

Dr. Facebook Fever
05-05-2006, 09:21 AM
That would just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
so basically it would be a very Royals thing to do.

MahiMike
05-05-2006, 09:23 AM
2 words; Salary Cap.
2 more words; You're Fired!

Fish
05-05-2006, 09:23 AM
Major League 4: A Royal Mess

sedated
05-05-2006, 09:50 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Fire Baird, have George Brett draft the players.

I just pray to God we do not make any trades while Barid is still in office.

We'll end up trading Affeldt, Bautista, and DeJesus for a bucket of balls and a 10% off coupon to McDonalds.

bkkcoh
05-05-2006, 09:55 AM
I...
We'll end up trading Affeldt, Bautista, and DeJesus for a bucket of balls and a 10% off coupon to McDonalds.


Don't you mean Wal-Mart!!! :banghead:

jidar
05-05-2006, 09:59 AM
This made me want to slit my fuggin throat.
argh.

Taking the family for an annual trip up to KC this summer, and I'm seriously considering not going to see the Royals play. Just thinking about this team is too depressing, why go through that on a family trip? *sigh*

Cochise
05-05-2006, 10:00 AM
Fire Baird, have George Brett draft the players.


What makes you think George Brett can run a draft? Because he played baseball?
:rolleyes:

ct
05-05-2006, 10:00 AM
Major League 4: A Royal Mess

heh, good one

I love the Royals, personally. They make me feel better to be a Cubs fan. And man, that is really sayin somethin!!

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 10:14 AM
2 words; Salary Cap.
2 more words; You're Fired!

There will never be a Salary Cap in MLB. There will be a Salary Floor though in the next CBA. Count on it.

chiefqueen
05-05-2006, 10:17 AM
We'll end up trading Affeldt, Bautista, and DeJesus for a bucket of balls and a 10% off expired coupon to Walmart.

I hope you don't mind........I corrected it for you.

Logical
05-05-2006, 10:21 AM
Tell you had bad it has gotten for the Royals, I no longer enjoy teasing the hardcore fans about them. Now it just seems cruel. I sincerely hope something changes because the hardcore fans deserve something better than the humiliation that they must feel for the team they love.

Logical
05-05-2006, 10:24 AM
Also sad to think the Royals once had John Schuerholz as part of the management team. Imagine what it might have done for them had he been kept on as the GM based on what he has done for Atlanta over the years.

58-4ever
05-05-2006, 10:31 AM
**** Matt Stairs, let Huber DH most of the time. We already know that we are not getting anywhere close to .500, much less .350

Cochise
05-05-2006, 10:34 AM
Also sad to think the Royals once had John Schuerholz as part of the management team. Imagine what it might have done for them had he been kept on as the GM based on what he has done for Atlanta over the years.

He also was not sitting at a $100 table with a $20 chip in his hand.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 10:38 AM
**** Matt Stairs, let Huber DH most of the time. We already know that we are not getting anywhere close to .500, much less .350

Be careful, you can't diss .260 hitting scrubs like Matt Stairs and Aaron Guiel around here. For some reason they are popular, because they can suck whilst looking like they are not trying to suck.

Dr. Facebook Fever
05-05-2006, 10:45 AM
Ewing Kauffman must be spinning in his grave.

Deberg_1990
05-05-2006, 10:45 AM
What concerns me the most is this: The team has been so awful for the past 10 years or so, that it has whittled the fan base down to almost nothing. Im curious how many Royals season ticket holders there are anymore?? The average attendence to a game is only like 10,000 or so?? Sooner or later Royals management will start holding that over the citys head saying that they arnt generating enough revenue due to low attendence. They will threaten to move to another city. Its a vicious circle because nobody wants to pay good money to go watch crappy baseball.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 10:47 AM
What concerns me the most is this. The team has been so awful for the past 10 years or so, that it has whittled the fan base down to almost nothing. Im curious how many Royals season ticket holders there are anymore?? The average attendence to a game is only like 10,000 or so?? Sooner or later Royals management will start holding that over the citys head saying that they arnt making enough revenue due to low attendence. They will threaten to move to another city. Its a vicious circle because nobody wants to go pay good money to go watch crappy baseball.

Uh, the team's lease just got extended for like 25 years.

chiefqueen
05-05-2006, 11:27 AM
What concerns me the most is this: The team has been so awful for the past 10 years or so, that it has whittled the fan base down to almost nothing. Im curious how many Royals season ticket holders there are anymore?? The average attendence to a game is only like 10,000 or so?? Sooner or later Royals management will start holding that over the citys head saying that they arnt generating enough revenue due to low attendence. They will threaten to move to another city. Its a vicious circle because nobody wants to pay good money to go watch crappy baseball.

Is that the actual attendance or does it count unused sold and comp tickets.

ChiTown
05-05-2006, 12:28 PM
What makes you think George Brett can run a draft? Because he played baseball?
:rolleyes:

Even GB knows that the only thing in baseball he was ever good at was hitting line drives and licking Jaime Quirk's pucker hole.............

tk13
05-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Here's the problem about clearing the whole thing out today.....the draft is only about a month away. If you wipe the slate clean, who in the heck is going to make decisions on 40+ draft picks? If we clean out our player personnel and scouting department, who's going to decide who to draft in the 17th round? I can't imagine many scouts will be hired away from other organizations mid-season.

Having said that, our inability to find players through the draft is the source of this organization's downfall, so do you really want the current regime making the picks?
Now that depends. If you hire a "Moneyball" disciple, you don't need scouts. Just a stat geek with a computer.

That said, I personally think our drafts have gotten a lot better the last 3-4 years. Not great maybe but I think we've drafted better. Gordon, Butler was a great pick, Lubanski, Greinke, Maier, Howell, Bianchi, etc, etc. At least better than the disasters that came before it.

And more importantly, I'm worried about what's gonna happen to Donny Rowland. He's only been our director of player personnel for 1 draft. I think it would be a real shame to lose that guy... people talk about having good baseball people, that guy has a great record of success. He built the Angels farm system into one of the best, and before that was a scout with the Yankees when they were winning championships back in the 90's. This year would only be the 2nd draft he'd help be in charge of, not nearly enough time to evaluate how well he's done with us.

KevB
05-05-2006, 01:04 PM
Now that depends. If you hire a "Moneyball" disciple, you don't need scouts. Just a stat geek with a computer.

That said, I personally think our drafts have gotten a lot better the last 3-4 years. Not great maybe but I think we've drafted better. Gordon, Butler was a great pick, Lubanski, Greinke, Maier, Howell, Bianchi, etc, etc. At least better than the disasters that came before it.

And more importantly, I'm worried about what's gonna happen to Donny Rowland. He's only been our director of player personnel for 1 draft. I think it would be a real shame to lose that guy... people talk about having good baseball people, that guy has a great record of success. He built the Angels farm system into one of the best, and before that was a scout with the Yankees when they were winning championships back in the 90's. This year would only be the 2nd draft he'd help be in charge of, not nearly enough time to evaluate how well he's done with us.

I agree with everything you've said, especially about Rowland. Having said that, the real improvement has come at the very top of the draft. We've done better identifying guys who look to at least contribute at a high organizational level, instead of swinging for the fences with potential. Every name you referenced above was at least a 2nd round pick. We have very rarely found anyone in the middle of the draft that come close to being major league players.

SCTrojan
05-05-2006, 01:14 PM
Randy Johnson has 1 less win than the Royals........ 5 weeks into the season, that is freakin' SAD :deevee:

And Greg Maddux had matched their victory total going into last night.

Call me blind to the harsh reality that is the Royals organization today, but I keep rooting for them and get my heart ripped away piece by piece with each successive loss.

I was a season-ticket holder when I was there and would still be if I hadn't moved away.

They are like an old flame to me. No matter what has happened through the years, I still see them at the height of their beauty - 1975-1985.

Reaper16
05-05-2006, 01:19 PM
Our drafts have gotten better under Baird. That's it. The Beltran trade failure is reason enough to fire the guy.

alanm
05-05-2006, 01:29 PM
What makes you think George Brett can run a draft? Because he played baseball?
:rolleyes:
I'd wager Brett is a better talent evaluator than any of the stiffs their paying at the moment.

Deberg_1990
05-05-2006, 01:34 PM
and another thing.....Their problems are obviously alot deeper than him but why on earth did they hire Buddy Bell???? At least try and get a proven winning manager in here to try and turn things around.

kcfanXIII
05-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Is that the actual attendance or does it count unused sold and comp tickets.
i believe its the attendance. i go to games to watch baseball, not always the royals. i can't be a royals fan any longer. after hearing that glass made a bigger profit then any of the big market teams, i am officially a free agent. it disgusts me, that i stood up for this prick during the last round of CBA talks. i had big market fans telling me the luxury tax was a bad idea because there was no gurantee the owners were going to spend the money on the team, but i disagreed. i said there was no reason glass would not spend the money. the twenty million he made very well could have: a. kept carlos beltran here b. maybe sign a quality pitcher or two, and not elarton and mays c. been spent on position players who could hit. d. a good coaching staff that won't squander talent. if you don't sign mike sweeney, there's another 10 million a year. i'm going to laugh when the all star game comes around, and they don't even let one guy from kc play. none deserve to. also i, like JoPa, have been eternally optomistic through the past five years or so, but have reached the end of my rope. until they start winning, they are dead to me.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 01:44 PM
glass made a bigger profit then any of the big market teams

:rolleyes:

FringeNC
05-05-2006, 01:50 PM
Now that depends. If you hire a "Moneyball" disciple, you don't need scouts. Just a stat geek with a computer.



If the draft consisted of drafting other teams' minor league talent, you'd be correct, but where does the data come from for the amateur draft? No one trusts high school data because of the differences in talent-level. Moneyball guys do tend to stress in the books college performance over "tools" propspects (kinda like Bill Belichick does in football, and even the Chiefs' recent draft), but to say Moneyball guys don't scout is ludicrous.

If only the Royals could get one of Billy Beane's young hotshots...

The sad thing is Baird is substantially better than Herk Robinson, but still terrible.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 01:50 PM
:rolleyes:


That's why my "sources" tell me that there will definitely be a Salary Floor in the next CBA. It's not fair to the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets and all the other teams to pay huge Luxury Tax that fund the Royals when the Royals turn around and have a 30 Million dolllar payroll and 20 million in profit. As I've said before, the rest of MLB is tired of subsidizing the Royal.

I predict that Glass will sell the team after the next CBA is ratified.

banyon
05-05-2006, 02:19 PM
Here's some other Baird nuggets:

1) traded away Johnny Damon and Mark Ellis to A's for Blake Stein and Roberto Hernandez (who I nickname the "firestarter")

2) did not trade away Jimmy Gobble for Austin Kearns when the deal was offered

3) did not trade Andres Blanco (a Rey Sanchez all-glove, no-bat SS) for Joey Gathright in Tampa. (this trade is not quite as damning because Gathright has not proven he has a big-league bat, but his speed and fielding in CF are otherworldly. An OF with him and Dejesus would be fantastic for range).

On no other franchise would he still be making important decisions.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 02:23 PM
That's why my "sources" tell me that there will definitely be a Salary Floor in the next CBA. It's not fair to the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets and all the other teams to pay huge Luxury Tax that fund the Royals when the Royals turn around and have a 30 Million dolllar payroll and 20 million in profit. As I've said before, the rest of MLB is tired of subsidizing the Royal.

I predict that Glass will sell the team after the next CBA is ratified.

Right. And what "sources" are these?

Sources that contend that big and medium market owners are going to vote in favor of more competition on the free agent market?

Small market owners that are going to vote in favor of requiring expenses to outstrip revenue?

:rolleyes:

Cochise
05-05-2006, 02:28 PM
Here's some other Baird nuggets:

1) traded away Johnny Damon and Mark Ellis to A's for Blake Stein and Roberto Hernandez (who I nickname the "firestarter")


If you're going to leave out the facts that the deal was for Berroa then you can discuss it. Bottom line is that he got a pitcher and a highly regarded prospect at the most premium position in baseball for a guy that wasn't going to resign here at any price. You can call that a failure if you want to. I wouldn't be surprised if you did.


2) did not trade away Jimmy Gobble for Austin Kearns when the deal was offered


Source.


3) did not trade Andres Blanco (a Rey Sanchez all-glove, no-bat SS) for Joey Gathright in Tampa. (this trade is not quite as damning because Gathright has not proven he has a big-league bat, but his speed and fielding in CF are otherworldly. An OF with him and Dejesus would be fantastic for range).


Source.

If you haven't noticed, Gathright is a career .250 hitter at best. He's not even good enough to keep himself on the D-Rays roster most of the year.

Considering the Royals will score fewer runs than some individual players this year, Do we need any more .250 avg / .300 OBP hitters?

That kind of decision-making is why the team is the mess that it is. :shake:

banyon
05-05-2006, 03:09 PM
If you're going to leave out the facts that the deal was for Berroa then you can discuss it. Bottom line is that he got a pitcher and a highly regarded prospect at the most premium position in baseball for a guy that wasn't going to resign here at any price. You can call that a failure if you want to. I wouldn't be surprised if you did.

You are correct, that was a brain seizure on my part. Berroa is not helping that deal look better though.

Source.

Source.

These deals are both according to Soren Petro on 810 in his conversations with Allard Baird who is a regular guest on the show.

If you haven't noticed, Gathright is a career .250 hitter at best. He's not even good enough to keep himself on the D-Rays roster most of the year.

First, the DRays are loaded with OF talent, so there's no shame in that. It's a lot like the crowded OF's in Cincy and Texas which is why we targeted those teams too (Mench in Texas has long been a coveted hitter by Baird, but it may be too late to snatch him up). Second, he's fairly young to think that we will never hit. He hasn't even had a full season in the majors yet. His end value could be a Juan Pierre-esque success or Tom Goodwin-esque pinch running duties.

Considering the Royals will score fewer runs than some individual players this year, Do we need any more .250 avg / .300 OBP hitters?

I concur that with the K's dimensions, the Royals should get speed and defense which are relatively inexpensive as opposed to low avg. guys. I think Gathright's avg would be even lower if he played in the K as home park.

That kind of decision-making is why the team is the mess that it is. :shake:

Well we completely agree on the last part. I thought you had me on iggy? I don't know why, I don't have anything against ya. Oh well, good to talk Royals with you even if they are the worst team in major league history.

Thig Lyfe
05-05-2006, 03:14 PM
Don't you mean Wal-Mart!!! :banghead:

Are you kidding? That would totally ruin David Glass's profit margin!

FringeNC
05-05-2006, 03:19 PM
That's why my "sources" tell me that there will definitely be a Salary Floor in the next CBA. It's not fair to the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets and all the other teams to pay huge Luxury Tax that fund the Royals when the Royals turn around and have a 30 Million dolllar payroll and 20 million in profit. As I've said before, the rest of MLB is tired of subsidizing the Royal.

I predict that Glass will sell the team after the next CBA is ratified.

A salary-floor would be a disaster. Look at Florida. The Marlins understand if you aren't going to compete for a few years, cut all the high-priced guys, and save the money for a run when there is an uptick in the talent cycle. Florida won the WS not too longer after gutting their whole team, and they just did it again.

How are you suppose to rebuild without getting rid of all your veterans?

If there is to be any salary floor, it can't be on a yearly basis, but on a ten-year period or something like that.

sedated
05-05-2006, 03:20 PM
Don't you mean Wal-Mart!!! :banghead:


why would the owner of a store trade for coupons to his own store? seems like if he wanted a discount, he would have no problem getting one.

of course, it is Allard Baird, so anything is possible.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 03:32 PM
These deals are both according to Soren Petro on 810 in his conversations with Allard Baird who is a regular guest on the show.


Fair enough. But neither of those are huge misses. They are swapping one player who isn't good enough for another. Kearns would be something of an upgrade, nothing that is a huge miss. But Blanco and Gathright are just about the same player, it's nothing to complain about.

Plus, if you hate Berroa, and you want us to trade Blanco too, who's going to be playing short? Sluggerrr?

Baird takes heat for trades but he has not done poorly aside from Dye. With Damon and Beltran, he got some marquee prospects of the time. Sometimes players just don't pan out. Happens to every team. Nobody thought Beltran was a bad trade at the time. When Berroa won rookie of the year Baird looked like a genius. Not to mention stealing players like Batista for scraps like Grimsley.

People expect GMs to know the future. They don't. All will make some mistakes.

You can rap Baird on the knuckles for free agency, player development, the draft for the first part of his tenure, but blasting the trades makes a person look silly because that's the one area he has done fairly well.


(Mench in Texas has long been a coveted hitter by Baird, but it may be too late to snatch him up). Second, he's fairly young to think that we will never hit. He hasn't even had a full season in the majors yet.
[quote]

I heard it was Mench for Affeldt. I don't know if that is a huge gain even if the trigger had been pulled. He's not Manny Ramierez or anything.

[quote]
His end value could be a Juan Pierre-esque success or Tom Goodwin-esque pinch running duties.

Well there's about .100 points of BA difference between Pierre and Goodwin. One of those players the Royals had already and wasn't good enough.

As far as Gathright turning into Juan Pierre, color me doubtful. He's hitting under 200 this year. It's his third chance in the majors and none have been successful.


I thought you had me on iggy? I don't know why, I don't have anything against ya.

I did. I wasn't logged in when I saw the post. I was annoyed around draft time. I will put people on ignore temporarily pretty frequently.

KevB
05-05-2006, 03:34 PM
A salary-floor would be a disaster. Look at Florida. The Marlins understand if you aren't going to compete for a few years, cut all the high-priced guys, and save the money for a run when there is an uptick in the talent cycle. Florida won the WS not too longer after gutting their whole team, and they just did it again.

How are you suppose to rebuild without getting rid of all your veterans?


Florida's already completed two firesales the right way, in the meantime the R's "plan" continues to flounder. The difference is the Fish said, "I'll trade our vets, but I want the very best young talent back, regardless of postion. We'll sort that out later". Baird said, "for Carlos Beltran, the best player on the market at this time, I will only take a 3B, catcher and a pitcher, period". So, we completely limit the suitors for Beltran. It's not like we were so flush with talent that we only needed a piece or two to get over the hump.

Same thing when we traded Dye....he wanted s shortstop, period. Now we're so devoid of talent, we have nothing to trade. We also couldn't lure a top free agent here unless we paid him 20%+ more than another team because it's so blatantly obvious that we're years away from competing.

We can spend that additonal $20M of so called profit on free agents, but we won't attract top FA talent until we build this team into a semi-winner with youth.

Ultra Peanut
05-05-2006, 03:48 PM
if you can believe it, Mientkiewicz leads the starters with a .322 on-base percentageOh my God.

WilliamTheIrish
05-05-2006, 03:54 PM
Clap, clap, clap.

banyon
05-05-2006, 03:57 PM
Plus, if you hate Berroa, and you want us to trade Blanco too, who's going to be playing short? Sluggerrr?

Depends, would he remember to wear his sunglasses on a pop fly? (I know that's German, but rep to anyone who can Photoshop that).

Baird takes heat for trades but he has not done poorly aside from Dye. With Damon and Beltran, he got some marquee prospects of the time. Sometimes players just don't pan out. Happens to every team. Nobody thought Beltran was a bad trade at the time. When Berroa won rookie of the year Baird looked like a genius. Not to mention stealing players like Batista for scraps like Grimsley.

People expect GMs to know the future. They don't. All will make some mistakes.

You can rap Baird on the knuckles for free agency, player development, the draft for the first part of his tenure, but blasting the trades makes a person look silly because that's the one area he has done fairly well.

I have a low opinion of the trades we have made, but you are right in that the worst of them by far is the Dye deal. I also was for trading Sweeney at the beginning of last year when the Angels were purportedly interested, but Petro said, no, we could have a competitive team in 2006 and we need a solid stick in the lineup. I think his fondness for Sweeney as a person clouded his judgment on that one.



I did. I wasn't logged in when I saw the post. I was annoyed around draft time. I will put people on ignore temporarily pretty frequently.

Not a fan of my Tamba Hali thread, eh? I did go a little over the top on that one.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 04:03 PM
Right. And what "sources" are these?

Sources that contend that big and medium market owners are going to vote in favor of more competition on the free agent market?

Small market owners that are going to vote in favor of requiring expenses to outstrip revenue?

:rolleyes:

Without dropping names let's just say that I have a very close friend who is VERY close to the owners of a couple of NY baseball teams. And from what I've been told for the past 2 years is that all of the big market teams are absolutely SICK of subsidizing the Royals. In their opinion, there's no such thing as small market teams - just small market owners.

In the case of the Florida Marlins, Loria is trying to make a point by dumping salary. How in the world can Miami, Florida be considered a small market? The Hurricanes are sold out every Saturday in football, the Dolphins and Heat are sold out all year long. There's an absolute ton of money down there. It's small market baseball because the owner didn't get a new stadium. In addition, they've won TWO World Series and dumped salary afterwards and it was different owner each time.

Oakland shouldn't be considered small market either. Pac Bell park is less than 30 minutes (or so) away and is sold out constantly. They pay their stars big money. It's the Owner's decision to be small market. Hell, the Minnesota Twins owner WANTED to be contracted because he wanted the $250 million buyout from MLB.

So you tell me - would the MLB owners be better off without the Royals and Devil Rays sucking money out of their pockets every year in order to exist, or do they put forth rules in the next CBA to guaranty spending, forcing the "small market" teams to sh*t or get off the pot?

Believe me, I was up in arms about this information as well and was trying to defend the Royals position. But it's going to be harder and harder to defend them when most teams have double the payroll, even though those very same teams are put in hundreds of millions of their own dollars to keep the Royals in business. MLB is NOT the NFL.

alanm
05-05-2006, 04:49 PM
and another thing.....Their problems are obviously alot deeper than him but why on earth did they hire Buddy Bell???? At least try and get a proven winning manager in here to try and turn things around.
Could of had Jim Leyland when he was just sitting at home twiddling his thumbs. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I cried when they hired Bell. :deevee:

ENDelt260
05-05-2006, 05:00 PM
licking Jaime Quirk's pucker hole.............

I must've overlooked that stat on his baseball card.

tk13
05-05-2006, 05:05 PM
Without dropping names let's just say that I have a very close friend who is VERY close to the owners of a couple of NY baseball teams. And from what I've been told for the past 2 years is that all of the big market teams are absolutely SICK of subsidizing the Royals. In their opinion, there's no such thing as small market teams - just small market owners.

In the case of the Florida Marlins, Loria is trying to make a point by dumping salary. How in the world can Miami, Florida be considered a small market? The Hurricanes are sold out every Saturday in football, the Dolphins and Heat are sold out all year long. There's an absolute ton of money down there. It's small market baseball because the owner didn't get a new stadium. In addition, they've won TWO World Series and dumped salary afterwards and it was different owner each time.

Oakland shouldn't be considered small market either. Pac Bell park is less than 30 minutes (or so) away and is sold out constantly. They pay their stars big money. It's the Owner's decision to be small market. Hell, the Minnesota Twins owner WANTED to be contracted because he wanted the $250 million buyout from MLB.

So you tell me - would the MLB owners be better off without the Royals and Devil Rays sucking money out of their pockets every year in order to exist, or do they put forth rules in the next CBA to guaranty spending, forcing the "small market" teams to sh*t or get off the pot?

Believe me, I was up in arms about this information as well and was trying to defend the Royals position. But it's going to be harder and harder to defend them when most teams have double the payroll, even though those very same teams are put in hundreds of millions of their own dollars to keep the Royals in business. MLB is NOT the NFL.
There's nothing the Marlins can do. Don't forget, the first time they won a title, they did exactly what some Royal fans would want Glass to do... he went out and spent huge dollars in the FA market, put a World Series champ on the field, and still lost $30 million dollars due to poor attendance. That's when Wayne Huizenga wanted out and sold the team... that's not his fault, he's a pretty successful businessman, owns the Dolphins, etc... and he put his money where his mouth was, and it didn't work.

Oakland's a bad example too, look at how the Raiders never sell out.

I don't expect David Glass to lose money owning the team. I think that's an unrealistic goal, and up until last year he had not turned any huge profits on this team... and that kinda backs up Fringe's point. He makes some money trying to develop players, then gets pressured by the other owners, and he goes out and signs a bunch of older players to make it look like he's spending the money which kind of throws a wrench in things. If you don't like "subsidizing" the Royals, don't go over the luxury tax. That's the whole freakin idea behind it! Genius. I don't think David Glass is the smartest baseball guy but I don't think he's a bad businessman and I do think he has the best interest for parity in baseball as a whole in mind. I'm all for a salary floor, as long as we put in a reasonable salary cap. Can't have it both ways. And that's all he's pushed for all along.

ENDelt260
05-05-2006, 05:08 PM
Where the hell is demonpenz?

Start printing playoff tickets!!!

OmahaChief
05-05-2006, 05:25 PM
Here's the problem about clearing the whole thing out today.....the draft is only about a month away. If you wipe the slate clean, who in the heck is going to make decisions on 40+ draft picks? If we clean out our player personnel and scouting department, who's going to decide who to draft in the 17th round? I can't imagine many scouts will be hired away from other organizations mid-season.

Having said that, our inability to find players through the draft is the source of this organization's downfall, so do you really want the current regime making the picks?

Could we really do much worse? The Royals talent evaluators have missed so much in the last 5 years that it makes me sick. The team is a joke and will continue to be one until we get new ownership. That hurts to say as they are the only baseball team I watch but sadly it is true.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 05:31 PM
There's nothing the Marlins can do. Don't forget, the first time they won a title, they did exactly what some Royal fans would want Glass to do... he went out and spent huge dollars in the FA market, put a World Series champ on the field, and still lost $30 million dollars due to poor attendance. That's when Wayne Huizenga wanted out and sold the team... that's not his fault, he's a pretty successful businessman, owns the Dolphins, etc... and he put his money where his mouth was, and it didn't work.

Oakland's a bad example too, look at how the Raiders never sell out.

I understand your point about the Marlins, which is right in line with mine. Just because the fans don't care in Miami doesn't make it a "small market". Loria couldn't get funding for a new stadium so he dumped salary and is looking to move the team. It appears that no one in Florida will care if they move, either.

The Raiders and A's have no direct correlation. Al Davis received hundreds of millions of dollars from the city of Oakland, along with a remodeled stadium. If they don't sell out, it's not the fans but the Raider's fault. Oakland and the East Bay have millions and millions of people there to build a fan base. It's just not the same as Kansas City.

I don't expect David Glass to lose money owning the team. I think that's an unrealistic goal, and up until last year he had not turned any huge profits on this team... and that kinda backs up Fringe's point. He makes some money trying to develop players, then gets pressured by the other owners, and he goes out and signs a bunch of older players to make it look like he's spending the money which kind of throws a wrench in things. If you don't like "subsidizing" the Royals, don't go over the luxury tax. That's the whole freakin idea behind it! Genius. I don't think David Glass is the smartest baseball guy but I don't think he's a bad businessman and I do think he has the best interest for parity in baseball as a whole in mind. I'm all for a salary floor, as long as we put in a reasonable salary cap. Can't have it both ways. And that's all he's pushed for all along.

When Steinbrenner makes $300 million a year on the Yankees, he can afford the luxury tax. But why should he have to pay to keep the Royals in business? The Royals don't bring people to the ballpark and they don't put money in his pocket. HE PUTS MONEY IN THEIR POCKET. The Salary Floor will exist so that a team like the Royals don't just get money to exist and make a profit for themselves. It's not fair to the other owners, the majority of whom do not have financial issues.

MLB will never be like the NFL in regards to a hard cap. The "Old Guard" is too well established and make far too much money. David Glass needs to sell the team or step it up. He needs to be spending $75 million a year to field a good team that competes for a playoff spot every year. If he does that, there will be a ton of money in TV & Broadcast rights, along with Merchandising and attendance. And he'll still get money from the Luxury Tax!

If he doesn't make serious changes financially or sell the team, I'm afraid they'll be out of existence. It would be much cheaper for MLB to pay off the Jackson County Sports Authority than it would be to continue to subsidise the Royals for 25 years.

ENDelt260
05-05-2006, 05:39 PM
If he does that, there will be a ton of money in TV & Broadcast rights

There's not a ton of money in broadcast rights for the Royals to be had.

tk13
05-05-2006, 05:57 PM
Apparently Aaron Guiel's been called up, he's starting tonight, and Mark Teahen's been sent down. Joe Mays has apparently lost his rotation spot. According to someone on kcroyals.com they said they were listening to the pregame show and Baird was apparently not very happy about these moves... the Glasses or Bell probably had a say in them.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 06:07 PM
There's not a ton of money in broadcast rights for the Royals to be had.

Of course there's not at this time. But don't you think that if the Royals were successful, year in - year out (and I mean Playoffs every years and WS successful) that the market would increase? Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, eastern Colorado, etc.? And as the demand is raised, rights fees would be raised as well.

I hate to say it but St. Louis doesn't have the problems the Royals have and that town's not much bigger. It's all about the product on the field. Glass is just sitting around, hoping to get a bigger piece of the pie instead of making sure he puts a winning, marketable product on the field.

The Braves used to be horrible, too. The cry of "were a small market" isn't working and won't beyone the next CBA.

tk13
05-05-2006, 06:12 PM
St. Louis? St. Louis metro is like 3.5 million people. Kansas City is 1.6 million, it's not even close. Plus they've just been around three times as long and have had KMOX all those years broadcasting out all over the middle part of the country when the games weren't on TV. That's a rough comparison.

Reaper16
05-05-2006, 06:23 PM
Apparently Aaron Guiel's been called up, he's starting tonight, and Mark Teahen's been sent down. Joe Mays has apparently lost his rotation spot. According to someone on kcroyals.com they said they were listening to the pregame show and Baird was apparently not very happy about these moves... the Glasses or Bell probably had a say in them.
Beat j00

Demonpenz
05-05-2006, 06:40 PM
man sit stairs lets get some of young players time if we are going to bring them up

Demonpenz
05-05-2006, 06:41 PM
Man I should give two shits about the royals. They are my team and i somehow still never give up hope

Reaper16
05-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Man I should give two shits about the royals. They are my team and i somehow still never give up hope
I hear ya'.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 07:05 PM
St. Louis? St. Louis metro is like 3.5 million people. Kansas City is 1.6 million, it's not even close. Plus they've just been around three times as long and have had KMOX all those years broadcasting out all over the middle part of the country when the games weren't on TV. That's a rough comparison.

The population of the St. Louis metro area in 2004 was 2.5 million. Do you really think that 900,00 people or so make THAT big of a difference? All of those people aren't going the ballpark. It just comes back to Poor Team, Poor Front Office, Unwillingness to spend the Big Buck$ in the majors and, rightly so, fan apathy.

Phoenix has 1.5 million people and they aren't whining about being a small market. And they've got NHL & NBA to contend with.

tk13
05-05-2006, 07:25 PM
The population of the St. Louis metro area in 2004 was 2.5 million. Do you really think that 900,00 people or so make THAT big of a difference? All of those people aren't going the ballpark. It just comes back to Poor Team, Poor Front Office, Unwillingness to spend the Big Buck$ in the majors and, rightly so, fan apathy.

Phoenix has 1.5 million people and they aren't whining about being a small market. And they've got NHL & NBA to contend with.
Yeah, but it's more than that. How many kids around here grew up listening to KMOX... Jack Buck, etc... and following the team since Musial, Gibson, Brock, etc... they've just been around for 100 years. I would agree that probably has more to do with it than pure population.

Personally, I think if Glass spent 75 million on payroll he'd lose about 20 million dollars a year, but we could see I guess. I remember going to the games when I was a kid and George Brett and all those guys were there and it was still a winning team, they still only drew like 25,000 a night. Go look it up, George Brett's final season we had a winning record and still finished 13th out of 14 AL teams in attendance.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 09:20 PM
Yeah, but it's more than that. How many kids around here grew up listening to KMOX... Jack Buck, etc... and following the team since Musial, Gibson, Brock, etc... they've just been around for 100 years. I would agree that probably has more to do with it than pure population.

Personally, I think if Glass spent 75 million on payroll he'd lose about 20 million dollars a year, but we could see I guess. I remember going to the games when I was a kid and George Brett and all those guys were there and it was still a winning team, they still only drew like 25,000 a night. Go look it up, George Brett's final season we had a winning record and still finished 13th out of 14 AL teams in attendance.

So basically what you're saying is that Kansas City, while having over 1.6 million residents, can't put 10,000 people a night in the stands and in their heyday, they were 13th out of 14th in attendance. For the owner to compete at a modest payroll of $75 milion, he would lose at least 20 million. In addition, because there is no tradition, the Royals won't ever be able to get valuable television and radio rights because there aren't enough people to support the team because they haven't been around long enough. Add to that, they have horrific front office people.

So having said all of that, please explain to me why the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, et al should continue to fund this team?

Halfcan
05-05-2006, 09:23 PM
Nice article-pretty much sums up what I think of David Glass and the Bumbling Royals.

Cochise
05-05-2006, 09:24 PM
So having said all of that, please explain to me why the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, et al should continue to fund this team?

Because if they don't kick down some change out of their ashtray for the small market teams, you will have just listed all of the teams in major league baseball.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 10:26 PM
Because if they don't kick down some change out of their ashtray for the small market teams, you will have just listed all of the teams in major league baseball.

So you honestly think that the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers, Angels, etc. need the Royals to stay in business? Do you really think the game would suffer if KC no longer had a team? It's very obvious that the KC metro area doesn't love baseball, just by looking at attendence.

More than 20 MLB teams don't need or qualify for any money from the luxury tax. The Royals, Twins, Rays & Pirates are the biggest drain of the luxury tax. Remove those teams and the luxury tax disappears.

And since the Royals are small market, do you really think anyone would care?

tk13
05-05-2006, 10:42 PM
So basically what you're saying is that Kansas City, while having over 1.6 million residents, can't put 10,000 people a night in the stands and in their heyday, they were 13th out of 14th in attendance. For the owner to compete at a modest payroll of $75 milion, he would lose at least 20 million. In addition, because there is no tradition, the Royals won't ever be able to get valuable television and radio rights because there aren't enough people to support the team because they haven't been around long enough. Add to that, they have horrific front office people.

So having said all of that, please explain to me why the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, et al should continue to fund this team?
Are you serious? How do you think the NFL got to where it is today? Revenue sharing. Why should the Redskins, Cowboys, etc... help fund the Chiefs? Let's just get rid of revenue sharing and let football install an MLB system of "you reap what you can earn", and see just how well the Chiefs do. We'd be dead in the water.

I mean, I guess there really is nothing wrong with your thinking. I can't argue against it directly other to say that I love the game of baseball and would love to see it be a more "level" competitive game across the board... like football is. If you disagree and think they should all be run like individual businesses and the ones that fail go out of business, then you have every right to think that. But the NFL has shown that fans in general seem to flock to a more competitive sport. You are saying the NFL should abandon that and get rid of the cap and let everyone fend for themselves.

Deberg_1990
05-05-2006, 10:54 PM
It's very obvious that the KC metro area doesn't love baseball, just by looking at attendence.



No, KC just hates crappy baseball. Nobody, no matter what the sport, (unless its the Cubs), wants to pay good coin to go watch a crappy team. Its a catch-22. In a larger city like New York and LA, there is more margin for error if the teams have a few crappy seasons. Plus, as i mentioned earlier, the Royals have been so bad for so long now the fanbase has dwindled down to almost nothing and even some of the "hardcore" fans are now running away.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2006, 11:03 PM
Are you serious? How do you think the NFL got to where it is today? Revenue sharing. Why should the Redskins, Cowboys, etc... help fund the Chiefs? Let's just get rid of revenue sharing and let football install an MLB system of "you reap what you can earn", and see just how well the Chiefs do. We'd be dead in the water.

I mean, I guess there really is nothing wrong with your thinking. I can't argue against it directly other to say that I love the game of baseball and would love to see it be a more "level" competitive game across the board... like football is. If you disagree and think they should all be run like individual businesses and the ones that fail go out of business, then you have every right to think that. But the NFL has shown that fans in general seem to flock to a more competitive sport. You are saying the NFL should abandon that and get rid of the cap and let everyone fend for themselves.

FWIW, I NEVER said anything about the NFL or that the NFL should abondon their policies. This discussion has been soley about MLB.

I don't think baseball should be run as owner against owner, but in my original post, I alluded to the fact that I've heard the reasons why the Royals are becoming a burden to MLB.

Hey, we can all live with the "hope" that MLB will have problems and be forced to implement a salary cap. But that's just not going to happen. As I've said before, a Salary Floor is more of reality than a salary cap. MLB as a whole is not in financial danger. It's not the NHL. Teams like the Yankees earn $300 million plus a year and there's no reason for them to fund the Royals to exist.

The bottom line is that the passionate fans like yourself have no impact on the Royals or there future. The Metro area, the Organization and David Glass has all but sealed their fate. If something extremely drastic isn't done soon, the Royals will not exist in 10 years. Or less. And at this point, almost no one will care.

Deberg_1990
05-05-2006, 11:21 PM
The Metro area, the Organization and David Glass has all but sealed their fate. If something extremely drastic isn't done soon, the Royals will not exist in 10 years. Or less. And at this point, almost no one will care.


This im afraid to say, i very much agree with. Given what Dane has said, it would almost be in the best interest of the rest of the league if teams like the Royals and Twins were retracted considering i dont see MLB ever becoming like the NFL.