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View Full Version : HOLY CRAP YOU GUYS.


DMAC
05-11-2006, 09:41 PM
Someone has matched up 3 TOOL songs to become one.

Start with Vigniti Tres + 10,000 Days

Once Vigniti stops, put on Wings for Marie, with no gaps.

Vigniti Tres + Wings for Marie is the exact length of 10,000 Days. It is pretty cool, especially at the end where the hard guitar comes.

This is no coincidence.

Here, take a listen....http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=6920219

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 07:51 AM
Basically, it means Tool has gone the way of Nickleback.

Every song sounds the same...

DMAC
05-12-2006, 07:56 AM
Basically, it means Tool has gone the way of Nickleback.

Every song sounds the same...Or it means they are creative enough to sync up parts of their songs. It's called creativity. And the songs in mention are a part 1 and 2. So of course they sound the same dingus.

Can't anyone think anything is cool around here?

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 08:11 AM
Or it means they are creative enough to sync up parts of their songs. It's called creativity. And the songs in mention are a part 1 and 2. So of course they sound the same dingus.

Can't anyone think anything is cool around here?

There's alot of cool music out now. Tool just isn't it.

They were great 10 years ago, but they haven't done anything "new" in years.

DMAC
05-12-2006, 08:49 AM
There's alot of cool music out now. Tool just isn't it.

They were great 10 years ago, but they haven't done anything "new" in years.You...are..STFU.entitled...to...your...own...STFU...opinion...i guess...STFU

NewChief
05-12-2006, 09:06 AM
I'll have to give it a listen, as synched songs are one of the indulegences left over from my jamband days. If you want to hear some songs synched, listen to jambands. Many of them would have entire sets consisting of one song segued into the next without break, oftentimes flipping back and forth between songs, repeating themes, etc. etc. Of course, it was all done live.

DMAC
05-12-2006, 09:10 AM
I'll have to give it a listen, as synched songs are one of the indulegences left over from my jamband days. If you want to hear some songs synched, listen to jambands. Many of them would have entire sets consisting of one song segued into the next without break, oftentimes flipping back and forth between songs, repeating themes, etc. etc. Of course, it was all done live.Well, if they did that they must be like Nickelback :whackit:

Seriously though, that sounds cool, it has to take some real talent to be able to do that live.

NewChief
05-12-2006, 09:20 AM
Well, if they did that they must be like Nickelback :whackit:

Seriously though, that sounds cool, it has to take some real talent to be able to do that live.

It's actually not that hard to do live, because you can just sort of noodle around until you're all synched up. It is, however, hard to do well live so that it sounds absolutely seamless and almost telepathic. Love them or hate them, Phish were probably some of the most technically adept at jamming/improvising. Here's Trey Anastasio (guitarist) on how they developed the technique. It's pretty interesting from a musician's standpoint.

http://www.phisharchive.com/articles/1995/atn.html

Anastasio: That's sort of what we think. That's why we think people don't want to listen to the differences. It's like there's a big group of bands and everyone's the same. But in either case, that came from a lot of different places. Deconstructing and restructuring melodies, that probably came from writing a lot of fugues and stuff early in our career. The fugue teaches you about variations on a melody, exhausting every possibility. I hear that when I listen to Sonny Rollins. He'll jam on very simple melodies, and build it up for a long time. He's into the slight variations. Which kind of traces back to a gospel type of thing I think, where the song would go on for a long time, and they would take the melody around and each person would have their own little variation. The exact study of that would be like writing fugues. So the fugue in "Fluffhead," that's all theme and variation type of thing.

From an improvisational point of view, we do these exercises in band practice called "An including your own hey," which is a communication and improvisation exercise. Like I'll start with a very simple melody, and then each person joins with me in a simple repetitive counter melody until we form a bed of sound. When we each hear that the other three members are locked under their bed of sound we say, "Hey." Then the person to the right, which would be Page, alters his melody, and then we all alter our melody--it doesn't need to be a melody, it can be whatever the heck we're doing--until we've got a new bed, and then we say "Hey." That sounds like a really simple thing but it's hard to listen to three things simultaneously. And if you say "Hey" when somebody isn't ready yet, they know that you're not listening to them. So all four band members need to be listening to all of the other three continuously, and this thing goes around in a circle very fast. And it trains you to ditch your ego, not play anything from a riff, ego standpoint, and try to train you to only play by listening. Listening first, and complementing. And, it teaches each person to switch roles from being the leader to being the support person.

That was just the basis of a lot of our exercises. Then, we started really getting into it. So we started doing things like "Filling the Hey hole," where we'd do the same exercise, but you can only play in the spaces. No one can ever play on the downbeats together. It's totally wild. And that trains you to really be supportive because then you become part of a cog in a machine, with each person filling in different parts of that note. And then we'll do it focusing only on one aspect of music. So then we'll do it for a half an hour purely on texture. Or we'll take one note and only jam doing the "Hey hole" exercise, but only do it by varying texture, or by varying speed, or dynamics, or melody, or harmony, but always focusing on reorganization. Like that.

We've been doing these exercises now for a number of years and its had a huge effect on us, it just trains you to be a lot more open and to listen a lot more carefully. On "Tweezer," [a thirty-minute version off A Live One] you can hear a new section every two minutes. Every different variety. The textures change, the tempos change, the harmony changes. Or like in "Stash," [also off A Live One] in the jam in that, despite the fact that the general pulse stays the same through the jam, we're improvising by changing the harmonic structure of the song as it goes along. So if you listen to the jam what we've got is rhythmic patterns going against each other that are in different time signatures from each other. And that's a really cool thing. And then, there's actual good block harmonic structure that was improvised. It's normally just a D-minor jam, but the whole time you can look back at it and figure out what the harmonic structure was, going to the five chord, and the five of five, and to the two chord, and I don't really know other bands that do that. The thing is, you couldn't do that in a normal soloist, backup band atmosphere. The backup band is trained to support, define the chord progression and let the soloist do his thing. We kind of look at it from a different light, more from a King Sunny Ade band perspective, where there is no soloist, everyone is playing.

The other thing is having the groove speeding up and slowing down, that's a traditional no-no, like if the drummer is lagging everyone will glare over at him, "Keep the pulse, practice with a metronome, keep the pulse going." What we did to get over that was these exercises where we'd get in a circle and practice each person speeding up and slowing down and we'd follow them. For a couple of years, Fish and I would get into this thing where if he started to lag I'd be glaring over at him hitting my guitar louder trying to get him to catch up, and this is something that's happened in every band I've ever played in. It's like a typical problem, and no one ever does anything to solve it, so what we did was, we started practicing slowing down and speeding up, and now, it's something we want, so when he starts to lag, then we'll just lag with him. And then he'll lag really hard, and the next thing you know you got jams that are speeding up and slowing down. Nobody really does that. Usually a long jam consists of a groove and soloists taking turns playing on top of it, and there might be a harmonic structure, like in jazz where everyone's playing over the chord changes of the song, or it's free, and everyone's going in all different directions. But in terms of making that shit up spontaneously as you go along, the only way to do it is to practice spending hours doing it as a group or it just won't happen.

Reaper16
05-12-2006, 10:39 AM
Basically, it means Tool has gone the way of Nickleback.

Every song sounds the same...
:rolleyes:

DMAC
05-12-2006, 10:43 AM
:rolleyes:Yeah, isnt that the dumbest quote you ever read?

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 11:05 AM
I'm sure it certainly sounds dumb to the folks engaged in the Tool circle jerk...

Reaper16
05-12-2006, 11:06 AM
I'm sure it certainly sounds dumb to the folks engaged in the Tool circle jerk...
10,000 Days is as varied and "new" as Wolfmother.

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 11:11 AM
10,000 Days is as varied and "new" as Wolfmother.

Is that what you resort to? Knocking a new band that's put out an EP and one full-length record? Comparing Wolfmother to Tool is, well, dumb.

Wolfmother hasn't been putting out music for 15 years that way Tool has.

I'm not comparing Tool to anyone but themselves...great bands evolve.

DMAC
05-12-2006, 11:16 AM
See, I think they have evolved. Would you say Led Zeppelin evolved? Or do you think every song sounded the same too with them?

Or is it they just have a distinct sound?

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 11:20 AM
See, I think they have evolved. Would you say Led Zeppelin evolved? Or do you think every song sounded the same too with them?

Or is it they just have a distinct sound?

Zeppelin abosutely evolved. Listen to their debut album (which was basically a cover album, they ripped off every blues song they could think of) and compare it to "The Song Remains the Same" or "Physical Graffiti". Then compare it to "Coda".

Part of it has to do with the fact that Tool has a very unique sound, yes I think that's true.

Another part of it is a personal problem I have with the music dating back to a band I was in and a couple of people that were in it with me. I couldn't go anywhere without being subjected to Tool. One of the guys didn't own ANY OTHER MUSIC. He had every Tool CD ever released and he listened to it over and over and over and over and over and over...

The rest of it was that I just felt like making a flippant comment about the number of threads in this forum dedicated to the band. Maybe I should have just changed the forum name to "ToolPlanet" instead. :D

DMAC
05-12-2006, 11:24 AM
Well, they did just come out with a new album, and are a very popular band, so for them to have a lot of threads in a music category is a given, htismaqe.

And, on them evoloving, why don't you listen to Opiate, and then put in Lateralus or 10,000 Days and then say they havent evolved.

If anything, they evolved more than Zeppelin, and evloved better than them too. Now I am a HUGE Zepp fan, but you have to admit, they were better in the early days.

NewChief
05-12-2006, 11:42 AM
The rest of it was that I just felt like making a flippant comment about the number of threads in this forum dedicated to the band. Maybe I should have just changed the forum name to "ToolPlanet" instead. :D

I tried to hijack the thread away from Tool with the quotes about improvisational "drills", but you didn't bite.

chagrin
05-12-2006, 11:50 AM
Zeppelin abosutely evolved. Listen to their debut album (which was basically a cover album, they ripped off every blues song they could think of) and compare it to "The Song Remains the Same" or "Physical Graffiti". Then compare it to "Coda"...

This is a very solid point, and I am not a big Zep fan at all

Another part of it is a personal problem I have with the music dating back to a band I was in and a couple of people that were in it with me. I couldn't go anywhere without being subjected to Tool. One of the guys didn't own ANY OTHER MUSIC. He had every Tool CD ever released and he listened to it over and over and over and over and over and over...

They've only put out like 4, and at that time there was probably only 2. That HAD to be a pain in the ass!!

kcfanXIII
05-12-2006, 12:26 PM
there's five, than a dvd/live cd. your buddy needs to expand his library, but thats no reason to hate on tool. fact is they've got the most unique sound of anyone out right now. there's a reason they have so many fans.

DMAC
05-12-2006, 01:20 PM
Did you listen to that link I put up kcfan?

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 03:22 PM
I tried to hijack the thread away from Tool with the quotes about improvisational "drills", but you didn't bite.

Sorry, I had sinus surgery yesterday morning. I skipped your post, it's too complicated. :D

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 03:22 PM
This is a very solid point, and I am not a big Zep fan at all



They've only put out like 4, and at that time there was probably only 2. That HAD to be a pain in the ass!!

He had about 12 bootlegs! :D

Molitoth
05-12-2006, 04:01 PM
The band "Rosetta" just released a entire 2 disc album that you can sync both discs to.

http://www.rosettaband.com/

Reaper16
05-12-2006, 05:30 PM
It's evident if you'd actually listened to Tool through the years for your enjoyment instead of being subjected to it by bandmates, you'd clearly see differences in all of thier albums. You assessment that they never change or evolve is compeltely off base.

I only brought up Wolfmother because you've been pimping them hard lately. (Which they deserve; that album is fantastic.)

htismaqe
05-12-2006, 07:19 PM
It's evident if you'd actually listened to Tool through the years for your enjoyment instead of being subjected to it by bandmates, you'd clearly see differences in all of thier albums. You assessment that they never change or evolve is compeltely off base.

I only brought up Wolfmother because you've been pimping them hard lately. (Which they deserve; that album is fantastic.)

I listened to Tool's first 2 albums for enjoyment. They might as well have been parts 1 and 2 of the same disc.

Reaper16
05-12-2006, 10:54 PM
I listened to Tool's first 2 albums for enjoyment. They might as well have been parts 1 and 2 of the same disc.
Have you noticed the immense change in thier music from those albums?

htismaqe
05-13-2006, 10:03 AM
Have you noticed the immense change in thier music from those albums?

No, I haven't noticed an immense change at all. It all sounds the same to me. Perhaps it's because I don't care for their music...

Reaper16
05-13-2006, 10:07 AM
No, I haven't noticed an immense change at all. It all sounds the same to me. Perhaps it's because I don't care for their music...
That's gotta' be it. I'm guilty of the same thing when I criticize Katherine McPhee; I tend to engage in hyperbole a lil bit.

jspchief
05-13-2006, 10:10 AM
Tool is no Rush.

sedated
05-15-2006, 04:00 PM
everyone's opinion is different when it comes to music, so I won't rip anyone for not liking Tool.

but to say they haven't evolved is pure horse-sh!t.

Opiate was a more traditional "metal" sound, and their albums get more psychodelic every time.

AEnima - Lataralus was the biggest jump in style.

(but...to each his own)

Ultra Peanut
05-15-2006, 04:15 PM
There's alot of cool music out now. Tool just isn't it.

They were great 10 years ago, but they haven't done anything "new" in years.This is one of the more interesting suicide attempts I've seen in recent history.