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oldandslow
05-12-2006, 08:55 AM
http://www.wltx.com/news/news19.aspx?storyid=37795

(Cayce) - Inside the walls of Brookland-Cayce High School, you expect students to be treated equally. But a viewer tip led News19 online where a teacher's comments left us asking questions.

"These sorts of things are going to upset people, but the truth can be very upsetting," said Brookland-Cayce High School teacher Winston McCuen.

That truth, at least according to McCuen, is that black people are inferior to whites.

"Intellectually, yes they are," said McCuen. "This has been confirmed over and over, and this is a generalization. Again, there are some blacks who are more intelligent than individual whites. But as a rule, that is true. I-Q tests prove it over, and over and over."

News19's J.R. Berry asked McCuen, "Do you think slavery in America was a good thing? "Yes," said McCuen. "In America there was a rational assessment saying listen, if we give these people freedom right as they are and you have to go back to see how they were, you can't assume they were like us.

J.R. asked, "How were they?" "They were coming out of the jungles," said McCuen. "They had been enslaving each other for centuries in Africa, and in terms of being used to rule of law, they knew none of that."

No doubt about it, Winston McCuen has controversial opinions. But do his views make it into the classroom? He teaches Latin at Brookland-Cayce. He told J.R. that most of his students are white.

J.R. asked," Is this something that enters your classroom, something you tell your students?" "I'm a Latin teacher, so I'm not teaching politics or history," said McCuen. "I'm just teaching Latin."

"We got off subject one day and he mentioned that slavery happened and he mentioned the Vice-President around Andrew Jackson's time, and that's how we got off on slavery," said 9th-grader Candace Carol. The Vice-President she was referring to is John C. Calhoun; someone Winston McCuen admires.

"John C. Calhoun: the greatest South Carolinian in terms of political understanding and wisdom," said McCuen. "And he argued that the institution of slavery was a positive good, and he called it a great good and it was good."

Before talking with us, McCuen posted his views on an internet Web site called "American Renaissance." Most of the comments on the site are aimed at blacks. McCuen's comments are no exception. For instance, last August, McCuen said, "There is no apology to be made for black slavery in America. Why should today's whites apologize for the wisdom of their ancestors?"

J.R. commented to McCuen, "There will be some people that will say those are racist remarks." "They can call them what they will," said McCuen. "But if they call it racist, I just say it's true and you've got to deal with that. I have a responsibility to speak the truth; I believe it is."

J.R. asked, "So if you have black students in your class, do you look down on them?" "No, "said McCuen. "I try to do the best I can with every student I've got."

J.R. asked, "But you just said they were inferior?" "You try to actualize whatever potential is there," said McCuen.

This isn't the first time Winston McCuen has been in the news. In 1999, he was a history teacher at St. Joseph's, a private high school in Greenville. McCuen hung a Confederate flag in his classroom. When parents complained, he was told by school officials to take it down. He didn't, and he was fired.

"Our board of trustees ran screaming into the night saying 'take it down, take it down,' and I refused to because you need to present different views in the classroom," said McCuen.

That was seven years ago. Today, the Emory University graduate is on administrative leave after News19 informed Lexington District Two about his comments. He won't be back next year. But he wasn't coming back anyway because of a certification issue. Though the district declined an on-camera interview, they did issue the following statement:

"District officials have not seen the video done by WLTX, but we are now aware of certain web sites. The District cannot dictate the personal political views of its employees. The positions
of Dr. McCuen are not the positions of Lexington School District Two.

The parents of our district have entrusted us with the education of their children, and we
continually strive to foster a positive learning environment for all of our students. The District is investigating the matter and will take appropriate action if warranted. Dr. McCuen is currently on administrative leave. For unrelated reasons, he will not be teaching in Lexington School District Two next year."

While McCuen's days with Lexington Two are numbered, McCuen says his time in the classroom is far from over.

"Is that a problem?" said McCuen. "I hope not. "Am I not supposed to make a living because of my views? Or should I just be wiped out or what, and people like me, what do you think?"

jAZ
05-12-2006, 09:34 AM
Will this move the "liberal" media to the sort of outrage that a teacher criticizing Bush in class did?

Baby Lee
05-12-2006, 09:42 AM
Will this move the "liberal" media to the sort of outrage that a teacher criticizing Bush in class did?
Dude's getting fired and no one is rising to his defense.
Kind of cripples your analogy.

jAZ
05-12-2006, 09:43 AM
Dude's getting fired and no one is rising to his defense.
Kind of cripples your analogy.
Nice deflection. The "liberal" media would be all over this, were one to exist.

Baby Lee
05-12-2006, 10:10 AM
Nice deflection. The "liberal" media would be all over this, were one to exist.
Calling it a deflection does not make it one.
What exactly is there to 'be all over?'
Some guy has whacked out ideas which, when they came to light, cost him his job. No one speaks in support of him.
What exactly is the story, angle, issue, phenomenon, to 'be all over?'

jAZ
05-12-2006, 10:25 AM
Calling it a deflection does not make it one.
What exactly is there to 'be all over?'
Some guy has whacked out ideas which, when they came to light, cost him his job. No one speaks in support of him.
What exactly is the story, angle, issue, phenomenon, to 'be all over?'
The ability for the "liberal" media to smear conservatives as racists. The expoitation of liberally beneficial a wedge issue of racism. There's a ton for a "liberal" media to sink it's teeth into. Since when is the "liberal" media shy away from manufaturing a controvery in order to keep the conservative movement down?

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 10:32 AM
I guess I missed the part where Mr. McCuen claimed to be republican. Or is that the assumption ‘cause he’s racist? :shrug:
And if that’s the game then teachers are typically dems, so the “liberal media” could just be protect’n their own. ROFL

mlyonsd
05-12-2006, 10:32 AM
The ability for the "liberal" media to smear conservatives as racists. The expoitation of liberally beneficial a wedge issue of racism. There's a ton for a "liberal" media to sink it's teeth into. Since when is the "liberal" media shy away from manufaturing a controvery in order to keep the conservative movement down?

The obvious reason is because the guy won't be back to teach and since they agree with that decision because they don't maintain the same views as him it's a non-issue.

Now if the guy was being fired for spewing Bush hate, anti-religious views, gay rights, etc. they'd be all over it.

jAZ
05-12-2006, 10:39 AM
The obvious reason is because the guy won't be back to teach and since they agree with that decision because they don't maintain the same views as him it's a non-issue.

Now if the guy was being fired for spewing Bush hate, anti-religious views, gay rights, etc. they'd be all over it.
Got it, so the fact that they aren't outraged over this is *because* they are the "liberal" media. Got it.

mlyonsd
05-12-2006, 10:42 AM
Got it, so the fact that they aren't outraged over this is *because* they are the "liberal" media. Got it.

Glad I could help. :)

jAZ
05-12-2006, 10:42 AM
I guess I missed the part where Mr. McCuen claimed to be republican. Or is that the assumption ‘cause he’s racist? :shrug:
And if that’s the game then teachers are typically dems, so the “liberal media” could just be protect’n their own. ROFL
I guess I missed the part where anyone claimed Mr. McCuen was republican. Or is that the assumption ‘cause he’s racist? :shrug:

banyon
05-12-2006, 10:44 AM
There are racist crackers in S.C.? :eek:

This is news.

patteeu
05-12-2006, 10:46 AM
The obvious reason is because the guy won't be back to teach and since they agree with that decision because they don't maintain the same views as him it's a non-issue.

:thumb:

I'm not sure how jAZ missed this.

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 11:04 AM
I guess I missed the part where anyone claimed Mr. McCuen was republican. Or is that the assumption ‘cause he’s racist? :shrug:

If he’s not republican, why should the “liberal media” be “outraged”? :shrug:

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 11:16 AM
Hey y'all...ain't the south mostly Dems?

jAZ
05-12-2006, 11:19 AM
Hey y'all...ain't the south mostly Dems?
I guess that depends on how you define "ain't", "the south", "mostly" and "Dems".

http://www.lawprofessorblogs.com/taxprof/linkimages/bushstates300.jpg

jAZ
05-12-2006, 11:20 AM
If he’s not republican, why should the “liberal media” be “outraged”? :shrug:
Cause they can score "conservatives are racist" points, of course. That's what the "liberal" media is all about!

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 11:22 AM
Hey y'all...dat dare map jest shows how we suthahners voted.
It say's nuttin' 'bout pahty affiliation.

jAZ
05-12-2006, 11:43 AM
Hey y'all...dat dare map jest shows how we suthahners voted.
It say's nuttin' 'bout pahty affiliation.
Ah, got it. "party afiliation" trumps "voting patterns".

Interesting. I'll let you support your claim of the South being "mostly Dems".

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Cause they can score "conservatives are racist" points, of course. That's what the "liberal" media is all about!

So you're the one make'n the implication. Got'cha.

Cochise
05-12-2006, 12:50 PM
I guess I missed the part where Mr. McCuen claimed to be republican. Or is that the assumption ‘cause he’s racist? :shrug:

What are you, new here? :p

chagrin
05-12-2006, 01:01 PM
There are racist crackers in S.C.? :eek:

This is news.

the word cracker you used right there, is a racist remark and you should be banned for it.

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 01:14 PM
Ah, got it. "party afiliation" trumps "voting patterns".

Interesting. I'll let you support your claim of the South being "mostly Dems".


Yep...it's called conservative democrats....Bo-Weevils!
I see a lot round these parts.

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 01:17 PM
the word cracker you used right there, is a racist remark and you should be banned for it.

Yea, but had he posted “crackah” instead, he’d be all right. ;)

chagrin
05-12-2006, 01:24 PM
Yea, but had he posted “crackah” instead, he’d be all right. ;)

no, if I wrote "you mean there are crack smoking sp**** in Detroit?" do you think that would be okay?

Hell no, someone needs to take a look at that

banyon
05-12-2006, 01:31 PM
the word cracker you used right there, is a racist remark and you should be banned for it.

Oh please don't ban me Mr. Chagrin.

It was an, um, slip of the tongue, uh, yeah that's it...


"A poor choice of words conveyed to some the impression that I embraced the discarded policies of the past ... Nothing could be further from the truth, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by my statement."

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 02:30 PM
no, if I wrote "you mean there are crack smoking sp**** in Detroit?" do you think that would be okay?

Hell no, someone needs to take a look at that

Here, you appear to need this pretty badly.

Mr. Kotter
05-12-2006, 02:36 PM
Un-friggin-believable that some kook like this is still teaching in the year 2006.

Bowser
05-12-2006, 03:07 PM
Sounds like Winston McCuen suffers from a severe case of penis envy.

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Sounds like Winston McCuen suffers from a severe case of penis envy.

I was think’n cranial-rectal inversion disorder, but I ‘spose “penis envy” works also.

Bowser
05-12-2006, 03:29 PM
I was think’n cranial-rectal inversion disorder, but I ‘spose “penis envy” works also.

Maybe he has one, because of the other?

:shrug:

Radar Chief
05-12-2006, 03:30 PM
Maybe he has one, because of the other?

:shrug:

:hmmm:






Have a good weekend Bowser. :toast:

Bowser
05-12-2006, 03:55 PM
:hmmm:






Have a good weekend Bowser. :toast:

You as well.

:D

Baby Lee
05-12-2006, 04:10 PM
The ability for the "liberal" media to smear conservatives as racists.
Perhaps, just perhaps, this guy is so much of an outlier that those in the media who might otherwise engage in such smear are smart enough to know that trying to make analogies to wider populations will result in the general populace saying "Oh, that's horsesh!t."

Do you think that an op-ed or news segment surmising "hey! there's this wacked dude in SC who no one supports who thinks black are inferior to whites. That kind of thinking is emblematic of most conservative thought." will be blithely accepted by readers/viewers? Or would it result in rejection of the author and denigration of every other story or op-ed he authors?

jAZ
05-12-2006, 04:40 PM
Perhaps, just perhaps, this guy is so much of an outlier that those in the media who might otherwise engage in such smear are smart enough to know that trying to make analogies to wider populations will result in the general populace saying "Oh, that's horsesh!t."

Do you think that an op-ed or news segment surmising "hey! there's this wacked dude in SC who no one supports who thinks black are inferior to whites. That kind of thinking is emblematic of most conservative thought." will be blithely accepted by readers/viewers? Or would it result in rejection of the author and denigration of every other story or op-ed he authors?
Perhaps, though I don't know how one could know this with any more certainty than one would know that a teacher railing against Bush is an exqually extreme and unique outlier. Of course the "liberal" media felt it helpful to "their cause" that they ran for days with the GWB-teacher story. All this while overwhelming majority of folks both liberal and conservative agreed that such comments were out of place in the classroom.

Strange how that happens in such a "liberal" media, isn't it?

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Ah, got it. "party afiliation" trumps "voting patterns".

Interesting. I'll let you support your claim of the South being "mostly Dems".
Now, what was Bill Clinton and Al Gore? Southern Democrats.

I'm in the south...I even work in Georgia on occasion.

I'll tell ya' something a southern Democrat said to me just a couple years ago, when I commented that they sounded more like a Republicans. He said: It goes back way deep, to the Reconstruction when the Republicans were so hated some of them, remain stubborn about that to this day to NEVER take that label for their political affliation even if they vote for Pub prez's.

Guess it's kinda like our RHINOs which are more like JFK Democrats.

You guys have had so many defections, perhaps the demographic has shifted since the takeover of the House in the nineties. Heck Gingrich was a Southerner. But I'm not sure that plays out based on what a real southerner would call him/herself.

At any rate currently governorships are split 50/50 between Dems & Pubs in South. But it wasn't too long ago this was not the case. That's taking in OK where some disagree as to it being it being southern or not.

In other areas it's also a mix per the wikipedia link. It's just not this way for voting in Presidential elections. So the thing that has changed is that it's no longer the "Solid South" as it once was for the Democratic party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_South

jAZ
05-12-2006, 06:08 PM
Now, what was Bill Clinton and Al Gore? Southern Democrats.

I'm in the south...I even work in Georgia on occasion.

I'll tell ya' something a southern Democrat said to me just a couple years ago, when I commented that they sounded more like a Republicans. He said: It goes back way deep, to the Reconstruction when the Republicans were so hated some of them, remain stubborn about that to this day to NEVER take that label for their political affliation even if they vote for Pub prez's.
Ok, that's interesting stuff that I've not heard.

But it doesn't support your assertion. You say that voting patterns don't define the voter, registered party affilliation does. If that's the case (I think that's ridiculous, but whatever floats your boat), then you simply need to link us to the party registration figures for each of the southern states.
You guys have had so many defections, perhaps the demographic has shifted since the takeover of the House in the nineties.
The voting patterns of the 2004 election would indicate this to be the case. But let's not quibble over that. Let's see the registration numbers by state. I'll take those as gospel on the subject.
At any rate currently governorships are split 50/50 between Dems & Pubs in South. But it wasn't too long ago this was not the case. That's taking in OK where some disagree as to it being it being southern or not.
Ok, I *have* to laugh at your willingness to offer up a different set of southern voting patterns to support your argument that southern voting patterns don't accurately reflect party affilliation.

Please allow me this...

ROFL ROFL ROFL

... ok. Thanks.

Anyway, I'll take the registration numbers that you were wanting to use as the final word on the matter. I'll be interested to see them once you find them.

Thanks!

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 06:32 PM
But it doesn't support your assertion. You say that voting patterns don't define the voter, registered party affilliation does.

Oh I did?
Gonna twist my words around, add some as well…you generalized it to save your own face.
I said no such thing.

Quote by BucEyedPea
Hey y'all...dat dare map jest shows how we suthahners voted.
It say's nuttin' 'bout pahty affiliation.

I'll de-code the meaning for you:
Context: Discussing a map regarding a recent election.Nothing more.

You said that:
Ah, got it. "party afiliation" trumps "voting patterns".

If that's the case (I think that's ridiculous, but whatever floats your boat), then you simply need to link us to the party registration figures for each of the southern states.

I don’t’ need to do any such thing for a MB. This ain’t a court of law. How ‘bout you DO it since you're equally making the opposite claim and want to know.
Other than that I charge a fee for that kind of research. Pony up Mr. Sarcasm.

The voting patterns of the 2004 election would indicate this to be the case.
No they don’t. That’s circumstantial and is only one election.
Didn’t Clinton carry the south?

But let's not quibble over that.
I think you need to take your own advice.

Let's see the registration numbers by state. I'll take those as gospel on the subject.
Then get them.

Ok, I *have* to laugh at your willingness to offer up a different set of southern voting patterns to support your argument that southern voting patterns don't accurately reflect party affilliation.

I’m not “offering” up anything to “support” my argument. I posted it because I believed it to be true from observation. You challenged it as not true. I got curious to see. I corrected where I was wrong. However, you weren’t right either. Instead you revert to childish ad homimen. And generally my history is correct. I intentionally used one of your beloved sources for links…wikipedia.

Please allow me this...

OWNED!

Anyway, I'll take the registration numbers that you were wanting to use as the final word on the matter. I'll be interested to see them once you find them.
Well, I’m not going to do it. I accept the source and the facts appear to be mixed. I can accept that.

You want them…pay me for the work. Afterall you’re the one that NEEDS to know.

Thanks!

You’re welcome.

jAZ
05-12-2006, 06:58 PM
Oh I did?
Gonna twist my words around, add some as well…you generalized it to save your own face.
I said no such thing.

Quote by BucEyedPea


I'll de-code the meaning for you:
Context: Discussing a map regarding a recent election.Nothing more.

You said that:




I don’t’ need to do any such thing for a MB. This ain’t a court of law. How ‘bout you DO it since you're equally making the opposite claim and want to know.
Other than that I charge a fee for that kind of research. Pony up Mr. Sarcasm.


No they don’t. That’s circumstantial and is only one election.
Didn’t Clinton carry the south?


I think you need to take your own advice.


Then get them.



I’m not “offering” up anything to “support” my argument. I posted it because I believed it to be true from observation. You challenged it as not true. I got curious to see. I corrected where I was wrong. However, you weren’t right either. Instead you revert to childish ad homimen. And generally my history is correct. I intentionally used one of your beloved sources for links…wikipedia.

Please allow me this...

OWNED!


Well, I’m not going to do it. I accept the source and the facts appear to be mixed. I can accept that.

You want them…pay me for the work. Afterall you’re the one that NEEDS to know.



You’re welcome.
This is one of the posts that so off topic and so full of about a dozen different non-sequitor statements that it's not worthy of reply. The fact that you are comfortable engaging in a discussion without feeling the need to support your arguement puts into some very unflattering company. It's a major no-no around here to pull the "I don't have to back up my claims, YOU do it!" card.

You DON'T want to model your time here after T0m Cash. Trust me on this.

banyon
05-12-2006, 07:06 PM
No they don’t. That’s circumstantial and is only one election.
Didn’t Clinton carry the south?

No.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/usmap92s1.GIFhttp://www.gwu.edu/~action/usmap96s1.GIF

banyon
05-12-2006, 07:07 PM
This is one of the posts that so off topic and so full of about a dozen different non-sequitor statements that it's not worthy of reply. The fact that you are comfortable engaging in a discussion without feeling the need to support your arguement puts into some very unflattering company. It's a major no-no around here to pull the "I don't have to back up my claims, YOU do it!" card.

You DON'T want to model your time here after - ahem, shut your mouth -. Trust me on this.

I think Buc Eyed is a pleasant addition here. Don't do her the disservice of comparing her to _____________.

jAZ
05-12-2006, 07:13 PM
I think Buc Eyed is a pleasant addition here. Don't do her the disservice of comparing her to _____________.
I offer this commentary with the best of intentions and in complete agreement with your statements above. It's a very unkind comparison, but the tact she's taken in this discussion is straight from the T0m Cash playbook. I'd hope she is able to find ways to avoid any legitmate comparison to T0m Cash.

penchief
05-12-2006, 08:38 PM
Dude's getting fired and no one is rising to his defense.
Kind of cripples your analogy.

Not at all. The corporately-owned right-wing media had nothing to do with his firing. The elitist media's "bought and paid for" bias is a completely separate issue from the the fact that this teacher's employers may have disaproved of his motives.

BucEyedPea
05-12-2006, 09:33 PM
No.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/usmap92s1.GIFhttp://www.gwu.edu/~action/usmap96s1.GIF

Thank you banyon. I wasn't sure on the first election but for some reason I do seem to recall news reports saying Clinton had carried the south in the first election. I was unsure on his second election.

Still I never said party affiliation "trumps" voting patterns. I merely meant that someone can vote for a member of another party, even if not a member of that party. That people do this. I've even done it. There were those Reagan Dems too.

I think the discrepancy may be accounted for here. Using your maps and going by wikipedia's map on what The Southern States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States) I’m getting:

1992
9 Southern states for Clinton
8 Southern states for Bush

1996
7 Southern states for Clinton
9 Southern states for Bush

Those news reports must have used a different definition on what constitutes the South.* Still, they're both so close...so results seem mixed.


* Southern United States. Exact definitions of the South
vary from source to source. The states shown in dark red
are usually included, while all or portions of the striped states may
or may not be considered part of the Southern United States


jAZ,
Do you know there are BB’s that will skewer you for using links.
I back up a lot of my statements. I don’t have to link everything single
claim if I don’t want to. I'm not your thought slave. And I don’t
see that being done by every single person here on every single claim.
I’m not that anal retentive nor do I have the tim.
Also, an opinion may or may not be based on fact.(not saying this point is opinion)

But having to take it to the point of getting someone on a BB voter registrations IS completely over the top.
I have other things to get done.
Get over yourself it’s a BB.

Or better yet... fork over the dough.

I take American Express, MasterCard, Discover but cash is preferred…advance payment in full.
$200 per hour.
Here's a chance for a liberal to feed a poor, starving artist with a child the day before Mother's Day.

Mohammed
05-12-2006, 09:43 PM
How silly. Everyone knows that darker skinned people are really the smarter of the two. They are my children, after all.

penchief
05-12-2006, 10:04 PM
How silly. Everyone knows that darker skinned people are really the smarter of the two. They are my children, after all.

The darker skinned children are also less sensitive to the sun. They are less apt to suffer sunburn. They also have fewer laugh lines because their eye color causes them to squint less than light skinned folk like myself.

I wear sunglasses to prevent squinting and hide my laugh lines.