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View Full Version : House Passes 700 mile Mexico Border Fence...


Taco John
05-17-2006, 04:59 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/12/16/house_oks_700_mile_mexico_fence/

Taco John
05-17-2006, 09:25 PM
Anyone think this will get by the Senate?

Adept Havelock
05-17-2006, 09:38 PM
House Passes 700 mile Mexico Border Fence...I bet that hurt worse than the time I passed a kidney stone. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

I think it'll end up with a couple hundred miles of fence in some high visibility areas for the TV cameras to show, with a few nat'l guard walking around by them.

I expect to see it on TV sometime in October. Probably in a campaign ad narrarated by the brother of the guy who starts every movie trailer with the phrase "In A World...."

wazu
05-17-2006, 10:11 PM
Anyone think this will get by the Senate?

What's the timeline for something like that? I'm hoping it's not the "next February" discussion Frist was referring to.

Taco John
05-18-2006, 12:21 AM
I'm just not sure...

Man, a fence... That's an ugly thing. But I guess we've got to do something to stem the flow. It's too bad the situation has gotten to this point.

alanm
05-18-2006, 02:19 PM
I'm just not sure...

Man, a fence... That's an ugly thing. But I guess we've got to do something to stem the flow. It's too bad the situation has gotten to this point.
I prefer land mines myself. :)

wazu
05-18-2006, 09:56 PM
I'm just not sure...

Man, a fence... That's an ugly thing. But I guess we've got to do something to stem the flow. It's too bad the situation has gotten to this point.

My neighbor built a fence in his backyard. They're not that ugly.

the Talking Can
05-18-2006, 10:06 PM
worked so well for Germany...

wazu
05-18-2006, 10:13 PM
worked so well for Germany...

I don't remember hearing about a big influx of illegal aliens to East Berlin.

Logical
05-18-2006, 10:29 PM
Anyone think this will get by the Senate?More importantly does anyone think this will really solve anything?

patteeu
05-18-2006, 10:37 PM
worked so well for Germany...

What would the Talking Can do?

wazu
05-18-2006, 10:44 PM
More importantly does anyone think this will really solve anything?

Maybe we should just give up.

Logical
05-18-2006, 10:56 PM
Maybe we should just give up.Right now there is about a 100 mile stretch and it stops almost no one, only the ones not truly motivated. So how is a 700 mile actually 800 mile stretch going to be any more effective. Anyone can dig a hole under it in less than an hour because we are talking sandy dry soil that is loose and easily dug away. Every so often there is river or stream, guess what no fence, cannot be watched 24/7. Then there is the terrain that will not support a fence but doesn't stop a motivated individual.

Anyway it is a silly idea and huge waste of money, course Haliburton is probably available to build it for a few billion.

Boozer
05-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Right now there is about a 100 mile stretch and it stops almost no one, only the ones not truly motivated. So how is a 700 mile actually 800 mile stretch going to be any more effective. Anyone can dig a hole under it in less than an hour because we are talking sandy dry soil that is loose and easily dug away. Every so often there is river or stream, guess what no fence, cannot be watched 24/7. Then there is the terrain that will not support a fence but doesn't stop a motivated individual.

Anyway it is a silly idea and huge waste of money, course Haliburton is probably available to build it for a few billion.

I think that's why Mexican border towns are so shitty. They're full of all the lazy mf'rs who give up on trying to get into the US.

wazu
05-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Right now there is about a 100 mile stretch and it stops almost no one, only the ones not truly motivated. So how is a 700 mile actually 800 mile stretch going to be any more effective. Anyone can dig a hole under it in less than an hour because we are talking sandy dry soil that is loose and easily dug away. Every so often there is river or stream, guess what no fence, cannot be watched 24/7. Then there is the terrain that will not support a fence but doesn't stop a motivated individual.

Anyway it is a silly idea and huge waste of money, course Haliburton is probably available to build it for a few billion.

If all they do is build a wall then I agree. However, if they follow up with stricter enforcement and continue to bolster defenses, crack down on employers, and stop giving free rides back to the border then I think it's a good start.

A fence is a good tool towards security. It doesn't accomplish it all by itself, but it can make the job doable. Picture a prison with no fence vs one with a fence. Which will have to station more guards around the perimeter?

the Talking Can
05-19-2006, 12:44 AM
What would the Talking Can do?

mindlessly repeat republican talking points for the rest of my life...you seem happy enough....

Taco John
05-19-2006, 02:15 AM
The Democrats are in a bind here with regards to solutions, because any solution they can possibly come up with that doesn't involve a fence would have to involve doing something to enrich the country of Mexico in such a way that people wouldn't want to come into America. Any such plan would be met with howls from the right (see the Republican response to NAFTA), who think that acting with force and rigidity is the best solution... They'd rather bankrupt the country treating the symptom than addressing any workable cure.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that NAFTA was flawed and is a huge part of the problem. As part of NAFTA the US is providng huge subsidies for American farmers, creating a competitive disadvantage for Mexican farmers, pressuring their prices downward and forcing many of them out of business. So to compensate, they cross the border where the money is much better than what they can get in Mexico. I'd bet an investigation into the illegals here would partly tell a story of Mexican farmers forced into bankruptcy, who crossed the border looking for opportunity no longer found at home.

I'm not sure what the exact solution is, but I think that part of it is to stop subsidizing farmers in America and force them to compete on equal footing with the Mexican farmer. I bet you can draw a direct parallel with the implementation of NAFTA and the increase in illegals... Further, I'd bet that you see spikes in illegal activity that correllates with every increase of subsidization.

Ultra Peanut
05-19-2006, 05:28 AM
Fear of a Brown Country

patteeu
05-19-2006, 06:45 AM
mindlessly repeat republican talking points for the rest of my life...you seem happy enough....

The democrat talking points (and apparent lack of ideas) that you embrace leave you unfulfilled don't they?

patteeu
05-19-2006, 06:46 AM
Fear of a Brown Country

Are you an open borders guy?

Ultra Peanut
05-19-2006, 07:29 AM
I'm a "Let's Stop the Fear-mongering Rhetoric and Idiotic 'Solutions'" girl.

I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it will work, if that's what you're asking.

jspchief
05-19-2006, 08:25 AM
I'd bet an investigation into the illegals here would partly tell a story of Mexican farmers forced into bankruptcy, who crossed the border looking for opportunity no longer found at home. I don't think you have a very accurate picture of the typical Mexican farmer. They aren't like American farmers, either in wealth or the scale of their operations. At the very least, I think the number of illegals here due to being forced out of "business" by NAFTA is very small.

patteeu
05-19-2006, 08:38 AM
I'm a "Let's Stop the Fear-mongering Rhetoric and Idiotic 'Solutions'" girl.

I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it will work, if that's what you're asking.

So what do you think the solution is, or is there no problem to solve?

NewChief
05-19-2006, 08:53 AM
I don't really know what kind of fence they're talking about here, but on first blush this idea seems completely idiotic.

So idiotic, that as my high school classes have debated immigration, I've heard several of the students say, "WE NEED TO BUILD A BIG FENCE AROUND THE COUNTRY TO KEEP EVERYONE OUT!!!!!" and I've thought to myself while nodding, smiling and asking for responses from other students, "What an idiotic idea."

Now maybe the fence will work, and I'm just overly pessimistic. However, I don't see an actual physical barrier being able to overcome the desire of immigrants to enter the country and find wages far beyond what are available in their own country. I hope I'm wrong, but I anticipate this being a large waste of taxpayer money.

jspchief
05-19-2006, 09:02 AM
I don't really know what kind of fence they're talking about here, but on first blush this idea seems completely idiotic.

So idiotic, that as my high school classes have debated immigration, I've heard several of the students say, "WE NEED TO BUILD A BIG FENCE AROUND THE COUNTRY TO KEEP EVERYONE OUT!!!!!" and I've thought to myself while nodding, smiling and asking for responses from other students, "What an idiotic idea."

Now maybe the fence will work, and I'm just overly pessimistic. However, I don't see an actual physical barrier being able to overcome the desire of immigrants to enter the country and find wages far beyond what are available in their own country. I hope I'm wrong, but I anticipate this being a large waste of taxpayer money.If we ever have the intention of stopping illegals, I think a fence is critical.

I think Adam said it best in post #15. It won't be the sole solution, but it will make the job a little easier for border patrols.

Unfortunately, I agree it probably won't be effective. IMO, we will never stop illegal immigration unless we completely open the borders, thus eliminating the illegality of it.

Logical
05-19-2006, 01:51 PM
So what do you think the solution is, or is there no problem to solve?

Actually that is a good way to ask it. The problem is not illegal immigration (we need these workers our population is not growing fast enough at the low end of the economic pecking order). The problem is we need to stop giving them free services, not collecting taxes and social security, and therefore allowing them to be a drain on the economy.

This is why my solution is opening the borders for immigration, making a green card easy and as Social Security number goes with it automatically. Get them contributing to our tax base instead of just being a drain on it.

Inspector
05-19-2006, 02:39 PM
I'd like to investigate a force field solution coupled with lazer guided mini missles.

Once the force field is crossed, an automatic guidance beam locks onto the perp and BAM!, suddenly there's a big puff of smoke.

There ya go. Problem solved. Just need to put up a sign that says "smoking allowed".

BucEyedPea
05-19-2006, 02:44 PM
I'd like to investigate a force field solution coupled with lazer guided mini missles.

Once the force field is crossed, an automatic guidance beam locks onto the perp and BAM!, suddenly there's a big puff of smoke.

There ya go. Problem solved. Just need to put up a sign that says "smoking allowed".

Or stun them. I actually like this idea and thought of it once. Where are all our high tech people. I think of things like MI, and all those lasers...why not?

I do think we have to increase our immigration quotas though.

listopencil
05-19-2006, 09:58 PM
Eliminate noncitizen access to socialist programs. Allow Resident Alien status with proof of employment. Proof of employment includes payment of income tax. No fence needed. It's that simple.

patteeu
05-20-2006, 12:06 PM
Eliminate noncitizen access to socialist programs. Allow Resident Alien status with proof of employment. Proof of employment includes payment of income tax. No fence needed. It's that simple.

:thumb:

Hydrae
05-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Eliminate noncitizen access to socialist programs. Allow Resident Alien status with proof of employment. Proof of employment includes payment of income tax. No fence needed. It's that simple.


Although not practical, I would prefer to eliminate the socialist programs as well as the income tax. Then it doesn't matter.

listopencil
05-20-2006, 06:26 PM
Although not practical, I would prefer to eliminate the socialist programs as well as the income tax. Then it doesn't matter.



One step at a time. Vote Libertarian.